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View Full Version : 2.7lt S4 motor in my A4



Nickpelzer
10-16-2010, 08:18 AM
Will the 2.7lt twin turbo s4 motor bolt up to my fwd transmission in my 1998 1.8t a4? If so, what else do I need besides ecu, wiring harness, radiator...

Please help, I have a S4 engine and I want to use it!!! lol

cdowns13
10-16-2010, 08:21 AM
you need to beef up your suspension a bit, different mounts for motor and trans. im sure this is a small list and others will chime in with a BIT more..

Nickpelzer
10-16-2010, 08:46 AM
Cool, thank you!! but will the motor bolt up to my existing trans?

hercfe
10-16-2010, 08:57 AM
you would need to widen the front track by probably 4 inches at the strut mounts to make it work even if it did bolt up. This would require about 15000 in fabrication alone, and probably another 10000 in labor and random parts to just get it to start. you're best option would be to get a totaled s4, and swap the entire drivetrain onto your chassis-making your car awd. it would be less costly, and WAY less work. and the best part is, its a direct fit bolt on swap so there's no fab involved.

chris164935
10-16-2010, 09:13 AM
No. the s4 is longitudinal, and the a4 fwd is transverse. you would need to widen the front track by probably 4 inches at the strut mounts to make it work even if it did bolt up. This would require about 15000 in fabrication alone, and probably another 10000 in labor and random parts to just get it to start. you're best option would be to get a totaled s4, and swap the entire drivetrain onto your chassis-making your car awd. it would be less costly, and WAY less work. and the best part is, its a direct fit bolt on swap so there's no fab involved.
Wow. All motors, FWD or AWD, and mounted longitudinally in the A4. The motor will bolt up to your FWD transmission. No custom fabrication required.

dowsett6
10-16-2010, 09:23 AM
No. the s4 is longitudinal, and the a4 fwd is transverse. you would need to widen the front track by probably 4 inches at the strut mounts to make it work even if it did bolt up. This would require about 15000 in fabrication alone, and probably another 10000 in labor and random parts to just get it to start. you're best option would be to get a totaled s4, and swap the entire drivetrain onto your chassis-making your car awd. it would be less costly, and WAY less work. and the best part is, its a direct fit bolt on swap so there's no fab involved.

I have never seen so much wrong info in one place!

firstly all A4/S4 are longitudinal, none are transverse. our cars aren't some VW or TT...

And the AWD system bolting right in? The floors are built different in the back so good luck with that.


To the OP: the S4 engine will bolt up to your transmission. Its the same bellhousing, You will need to upgrade your clutch to a 240mm clutch though. And change your throwout bearing while your in there, just because its cheap and easy while you have the engine off.


Now for the hard stuff. You will also need a S4 dash harness, cluster and pedal assembly because the S4 engine is an electronic throttle (dbw) and your AEB engine is cable operated (dbc, or ndbw)

dowsett6
10-16-2010, 09:28 AM
You will also need all the bolt on parts like: intake, exhaust, electronics for the engine sensors, coolant hoses, ect... Hopefully you received all that with your engine.

Oh! as far as the suspension goes, you dont have to change it. The front will be a bit lower but nothing bad. If anything it will look nicer.

And the stock motor mounts will work, but beefer ones are never a bad thing. And the tranny mounts wont change because your not changing to an S4 or 2.8L tranny. But again, beefer is always good

stevejones19
10-16-2010, 09:52 AM
OP, Just search this topic please. It gets asked about once a week. It's just easier to buy the s4. And if you just search it and not have people commenting in this thread, you'll get less bad info.

somebody5788
10-16-2010, 10:34 AM
No. the s4 is longitudinal, and the a4 fwd is transverse. you would need to widen the front track by probably 4 inches at the strut mounts to make it work even if it did bolt up. This would require about 15000 in fabrication alone, and probably another 10000 in labor and random parts to just get it to start. you're best option would be to get a totaled s4, and swap the entire drivetrain onto your chassis-making your car awd. it would be less costly, and WAY less work. and the best part is, its a direct fit bolt on swap so there's no fab involved.

Please don't give advice....

Militant-Grunt
10-16-2010, 12:49 PM
Please don't give advice....

X2

You'll need someone familiar with electrical diagrams in order to make the engine harness work with the body harness.

stack
10-16-2010, 02:15 PM
dont forget brakes

yu get all this POWA and you need a lot more force to stop it

guy022077
10-16-2010, 02:51 PM
if you have the engine, see what you can do about buying the car it came out of, youll need so many parts you will want to have the donor car there.

cmurphy2266
10-16-2010, 03:11 PM
if you have the engine, see what you can do about buying the car it came out of, youll need so many parts you will want to have the donor car there.

Either that, or the best option is just to find an S4 with a blown motor, especially if the timing belt broke, so you'll have a real S4, which would probably cost about the same considering all the parts you might need for the build. (Assuming you want AWD)

dowsett6
10-16-2010, 03:28 PM
dont forget brakes

yu get all this POWA and you need a lot more force to stop it

Why? if your going 60mph with a 1.8t, or 60mph with a 2.7t its still 60mph. same speed = no reason for bigger brakes.

Sales@RAI
10-16-2010, 03:31 PM
Why? if your going 60mph with a 1.8t, or 60mph with a 2.7t its still 60mph. same speed = no reason for bigger brakes.

I never understood this before I got a BAT, but its because when you punch the gas going 40mph in either instance, with 100hp more, your going a good bit faster in the same amount of time. Slowing down from higher mph requires better breakes

thenj3
10-16-2010, 03:35 PM
Why? if your going 60mph with a 1.8t, or 60mph with a 2.7t its still 60mph. same speed = no reason for bigger brakes.

thank you. i dont understand why everybody says you gotta upgrades your brakes just cuz you have modded car. if you drive normally it dont matter if you got 60hp or 2000, assuming weight is somewhat close lol.

guy022077
10-16-2010, 03:45 PM
thank you. i dont understand why everybody says you gotta upgrades your brakes just cuz you have modded car. if you drive normally it dont matter if you got 60hp or 2000, assuming weight is somewhat close lol.

not sure this is true, lets add distance to the brakes/hp comments from above...a 60hp car and you floor it over the first 1/2 then brake. your brakes suck so it takes you 1/2 mile to stop, distance covered 1mile. now do the same thing in the 2000 hp car....since in 1/2 mile it will be travelling a lot faster than the 60hp you will need much better brakes to still stop in the remaining 1/2 mile. am i wrong? however if you drive normally it likely wont matter. but since over any difference youll be travelling faster than with the slow car youll need better brakes to stop in the same distance.

clubaudi
10-16-2010, 04:03 PM
ok if i have a atw motor with the electronic throttle, would i have to change dash harness, pedals, and all those parts?

black99.5a4
10-16-2010, 04:12 PM
no, but trust me, its cheaper to build the 1.8t then it is to swap in a 2.7t, even leaving the 2.7t stock or even just mild upgrades.

you need a 2.8 subframe, 2.7 radiator support/radiator/fan setup, 2.7t AC lines and that is just the start of it.. its easier in your car, but you still need the 2.7t engine harness, obviously.

you also need downpipes, all the 2.7 sensors, if you dont want it ghettoed, you need the passenger side 02 sensor holder that bolts to the firewall, etc.

clubaudi
10-16-2010, 04:30 PM
alright that answers is im going bt...

Nickpelzer
10-16-2010, 06:03 PM
Thanks for all the info. I still might try to use this engine in my a4, I have a megasquirt stand alone ecu. If I do this do I still need the s4 dash harness and cluster?

dowsett6
10-16-2010, 06:09 PM
I never understood this before I got a BAT, but its because when you punch the gas going 40mph in either instance, with 100hp more, your going a good bit faster in the same amount of time. Slowing down from higher mph requires better breakes

I went BAT as well and have no problem with my stock brakes, even on the drag strip.



thank you. i dont understand why everybody says you gotta upgrades your brakes just cuz you have modded car. if you drive normally it dont matter if you got 60hp or 2000, assuming weight is somewhat close lol.

exactly



not sure this is true, lets add distance to the brakes/hp comments from above...a 60hp car and you floor it over the first 1/2 then brake. your brakes suck so it takes you 1/2 mile to stop, distance covered 1mile. now do the same thing in the 2000 hp car....since in 1/2 mile it will be travelling a lot faster than the 60hp you will need much better brakes to still stop in the remaining 1/2 mile. am i wrong? however if you drive normally it likely wont matter. but since over any difference youll be travelling faster than with the slow car youll need better brakes to stop in the same distance.

yes but going from a 1.8t to a 2.7t isn't a difference of 1800hp.

but adding distance and speed: you punch it from a go and you reach 60mph in X amount of time with 180hp, You then punch it with 300hp, and time Y is faster but you are still doing the same speed limit so brakes are fine

lotusgardener
10-16-2010, 06:38 PM
Just sell the engine and put a grand into the engine you already have.

stevejones19
10-16-2010, 10:53 PM
Just sell the engine and put a grand into the engine you already have.

This is so true. You can be very happy and get a lot of good stuff for a grand too. Just wait and find the best deals on the big stuff.

guy022077
10-17-2010, 06:03 AM
since I dont know your background or resources i will have to say a 2.7t and megasquirt will not give you as much as you selling that motor, skipping the megasquirt hassle and doing a BT1.8t. i have to say i was in your boat and decided to skip MS (even having a person that knows how to tune it) and skip the swap and just BT and build my 1.8t (well i bought it from a member here) but my point is the same. Its a lot of hassle and a lot of work and money just to get that motor running stock with MS.

black99.5a4
10-17-2010, 07:49 AM
putting 1000 bucks into the 1.8t wont get you near a stock 2.7 swap, but it will be a nice chunk of change for a BT setup.

I bought my 2.7t motor for like 450 bucks, that was long block with no wiring, ecu, etc.... I was going to be in it 5k or so, just to put the motor into my car.. (i bought a used dual mass flywheel for 100 bucks.. but i needed engine wiring which was gonna cost me 200, then all 4 o2 sensors new were like 400 ish bucks, downpipes plus exhaust (dp's were gonna be all but free from a buddy, but stock 6 speed dp's are 250 or so, unpiggie'ed, stock ecu's go for 200, then you'll wanna at LEAST chip it, add 450-500 to that, a clutch, i wasnt going to go OEM and burn it up, I was going to go FX300 to hold stg2+ power, that was going to be 550, then a front subframe was going to cost me 200, rad support was 150, radiator was another 150 and the fan setup (b/c its unique to the s4) was another 200, then cooling hoses, plus any other hoses/check valves i needed.. the PCV spiderhose on mine was broke, so add 175 for that, bi pipe, y pipe, all of that i had bought, i think i paid 200 for a y pipe and all charge pipes to the ko3's and out of the ko3's, then you need a FMIC b/c side mounts are even more work, 500 for the JHM setup which is just an Ebay core with their piping to fit behind the grills/fogs.

also my car being facelift 99.5 is still ME5 electronics, so I needed the entire me7 interior harness for sure, I was not sure what else I needed. my cluster is already me7 (i swapped that in a yr ago), but i am talking air bag module, door pin sensors, etc. all of that stuff could of been different plug wise.. now you are either rebuying or cutting/splicing if you can.

see how it adds up VERY quickly?

Scotty@Advanced
10-17-2010, 08:09 AM
Why? if your going 60mph with a 1.8t, or 60mph with a 2.7t its still 60mph. same speed = no reason for bigger brakes.

Last i checked WEIGHT had something to do with braking performance too.

Your looking at a chunk of change to put a 2.7 in the place of the 1.8. Springs, Subframe, core support, A/C lines, P/S equipment, alternator is all different. If you plan to mod the 2.7 you'll need to change your gearbox as the 01A is a weak link behind big power. Brakes are an issue as well.

dowsett6
10-17-2010, 08:16 AM
Last i checked WEIGHT had something to do with braking performance too.

Your looking at a chunk of change to put a 2.7 in the place of the 1.8. Springs, Subframe, core support, A/C lines, P/S equipment, alternator is all different. If you plan to mod the 2.7 you'll need to change your gearbox as the 01A is a weak link behind big power. Brakes are an issue as well.


yes it does, but the additional weight of a 2.7 over a 1.8t isn't going to destroy his braking setup. if he was adding a bunch of cinder blocks all over the car then maybe he would want to upgrade, but adding the 2.7 into the car is like just driving around with a fat person.

somebody5788
10-17-2010, 08:23 AM
Stock A4 brakes are horrid. Good enough reason right there. Plus if you're ever going to hit some twists well..... Ya you're going to want them

Scotty@Advanced
10-17-2010, 08:33 AM
yes it does, but the additional weight of a 2.7 over a 1.8t isn't going to destroy his braking setup. if he was adding a bunch of cinder blocks all over the car then maybe he would want to upgrade, but adding the 2.7 into the car is like just driving around with a fat person.

It's pretty much a proven fact more power = more speed. More speed = more brakes. True 70mph = 70mph but who's going to go to all the effort for more power to go 70mph?

hiwords1
10-17-2010, 09:11 AM
it is true that 60mph in a 1.8t = 60mph in an S4. however it takes a shorter amount of time to get to 60mph in the S4. if you drive normally on the street, you won't rly need bigger brakes. most ppl go BT because they want to accelerate faster but the faster you accelerate, the faster you'll want to slow down in case of emergencies. it's always wise to make sure you car is able to stop first than go fast. unless you don't mind hitting things or enter a corner way too fast and understeer like a mofo.

Ldiaz12
10-17-2010, 09:40 AM
Something seriously wrong has happened to this forum.....

terraflata
10-18-2010, 08:30 AM
And when your brakes are big enough and you lock up your wheels then you need better or bigger tires! It's stupid to drive a fast car that doesn't brake faster!

stack
10-18-2010, 09:11 AM
60=60
true
but stop something that is going faster.
and what drive normally???... who throws a bigger turbo that drives normal.

you dont have to change the brakes, but sure keep the stocks.
its safer and much better to get bigger brakes.
that like giving a AMG dodge neon brakes!!

stack
10-18-2010, 09:16 AM
1.8t to 2.7
it isnt a huge horsepower diff. thats right
but the fact that there is still some is the point
i am just giving a fellow audi fellow some advice.
he doesnt have to... but he should or think about it in the near future

belinko
10-18-2010, 09:21 AM
Something seriously wrong has happened to this forum.....

X2

It's getting difficult to tolerate some of the nonsense around here lately.

stack
10-18-2010, 09:39 AM
i dont know if i would call this nonsense
its just people sharing diff opinions.

mbudden
10-18-2010, 12:25 PM
Or it's people giving misguided information.
It's sort of like people adding 26" 'RIMZ' to their car and not upgrading the brake system.
If you're adding weight to your car, you will want more stopping power.

There is a reason why the S4 has bigger brakes and the A4 has smaller brakes.
S4 clearly has more weight, and the A4 has less weight.
(INB4 S4 has more performance etc)

Sigh.

stack
10-18-2010, 05:34 PM
Or it's people giving misguided information.
It's sort of like people adding 26" 'RIMZ' to their car and not upgrading the brake system.
If you're adding weight to your car, you will want more stopping power.

There is a reason why the S4 has bigger brakes and the A4 has smaller brakes.
S4 clearly has more weight, and the A4 has less weight.
(INB4 S4 has more performance etc)

Sigh.

X2.
thanks... theres no other way to explain it
aint it funny when you see like 26 inch rims and the rotor look like the hub hahaha.

drkenan
10-18-2010, 05:42 PM
Just sell the engine and put a grand into the engine you already have.

This is hands down the best piece of advice in this thread. S4's are a huge headache even when they're not converted from an A4. I can only imagine the pain and suffering required for what you're talking about.

Kyle H
10-18-2010, 06:27 PM
How do you clear the drivers side firewall when you swap a 2.7 into a 1.8 A4 chassi?

black99.5a4
10-18-2010, 07:47 PM
there isnt any clearance issues.. the subframe is what isnt cut out for the extra downpipe.

.Mad Hatter.
10-18-2010, 07:49 PM
my A4 has more power than a stock 2.7T, and with good pads and stock blanks/SS lines/good fluid it brakes just fine. i want to upgrade partially for looks, but bigger brakes on a stock 2.7T certainly arent NEEDED, IMHO.

somebody5788
10-18-2010, 08:34 PM
And when your brakes are big enough and you lock up your wheels then you need better or bigger tires! It's stupid to drive a fast car that doesn't brake faster!

235/40/18 Dunlop Sport 9000 tires just aren't cutting it.

Kyle H
10-19-2010, 11:47 AM
there isnt any clearance issues.. the subframe is what isnt cut out for the extra downpipe.

Got it, thanks.

somebody5788
10-19-2010, 12:10 PM
my A4 has more power than a stock 2.7T, and with good pads and stock blanks/SS lines/good fluid it brakes just fine. i want to upgrade partially for looks, but bigger brakes on a stock 2.7T certainly arent NEEDED, IMHO.

Have you ever experienced brake fade? It's not fun I'll tell you......

.Mad Hatter.
10-19-2010, 12:19 PM
nope...not even during auto-x (mind you that was the stock, chipped turbo)

good pads should help you avoid that...

ian52
10-19-2010, 12:49 PM
I am or was thinking of doing this swap as i can get all the bits at a good price local to me but my car is facelift and the s4 is pre facelift so im guessing the engine loom wont tie up to the car loom very easy?

dowsett6
10-19-2010, 08:18 PM
I am or was thinking of doing this swap as i can get all the bits at a good price local to me but my car is facelift and the s4 is pre facelift so im guessing the engine loom wont tie up to the car loom very easy?

How can an S4 be a prefacelift? and no I'm not being smart, I am actually wondering.

But I do see you are across the water, but even then its still ME7 and should be the same harness connectors at the ecu.

.Mad Hatter.
10-19-2010, 08:25 PM
apparently they got them in 97 over seas???

black99.5a4
10-20-2010, 02:25 AM
yeah over seas got pre facelift s4's.

I get brake fade sometimes when I really really lay into the brakes.. but my rotors are shot and my pads are OEM.

somebody5788
10-20-2010, 05:44 AM
yeah over seas got pre facelift s4's.

I get brake fade sometimes when I really really lay into the brakes.. but my rotors are shot and my pads are OEM.

I just figured when I was doing my brakes that well I needed to rebuild the calipers for 1, my slides needed cleaned up well so that they would bite evenly, and I needed Pads and rotors. So I just opted for A8 rotors and TT carriers. All new slides everywhere =D

.Mad Hatter.
10-20-2010, 06:29 AM
dont get me wrong Nic, i will be upgrading, haha.

_hmnib5
10-20-2010, 07:31 AM
x2. take the money and put it in your current engine. chip it and drop another turbo and u basically have an s4.

ian52
10-20-2010, 09:38 AM
This is the problem i have. I can get everything from the s4 donor car for under 1k. Thats going to give me about 320 bhp and bags of torque. Over here you get a pre facelift s4 and my quattro sport is facelift (2000) with the digi clock etc. Im not sure if the ecu from the s4 will plug into the cars loom or not with the s4 being a 98. I would need to spend a lot more than that on the 1.8 to get it up to that sort of power.