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View Full Version : k04 install complete...Now bad start-up, boost hesitations *pics later*



Robb12
08-19-2010, 03:37 PM
So the install of my k04 went smoothly for the most part. I put in a RP k04-015, techtonics HFC, replaced the rear O2 sensor, FMIC (trimming the bumper was a bitch btw...), APR TIP, 034 afpr set at 5 bar, stock injectors and GIAC software. I've got a start-up issue now, on a cold start, it takes a while for the engine to start up, but once it has and I try again, it starts up fine. After searching around I found it might be the fuel pump, leaking FI, fuel pump relay. My coolant temp sensor should be fine as it reads up to 12'clock. I'm just having a hard time figuring out what could be the issue. I just switched the plugs, using the bkr6e gapped at .028. I took the car to my mechanic shop and they said my coil packs are fine and shouldnt be causing an issue.

I'm also having bad boost issue. It jumps around and I'm just fixing one boost leak after another. Finally I reached a point to the suction pump and there is a small amount of air leaking out of the fat end around the ring. I just had this replaced about two years ago, but could be dying again, I'm curious if a small amount of air is supposed to come out that end.

As noted in the title, pics of the install will follow tonight once I get off work. [wrench]

A1 A2 German
08-19-2010, 03:46 PM
Stock injectors? You need to take care of that.

If you haven't done so, do a ~10psi pressure test via a air compressor nozzle into the intake (tennis ball or PVC cap to prevent the air escaping back out sealing it).

Codes?

Also, and maybe the fault of others, there has been CTS RP Ko4 waste gates not seating properly.....once again possibly the acts of fiddling or toying around with them from others, however could be cast issues, and did see pics of them not sealing properly.

Robb12
08-19-2010, 03:49 PM
I've been doing a pressure tests to work out the leaks. But I was told the '00 ATW uses stock injectors with 5 bar fpr

edit: also there are no codes being thrown

khj677turbo
08-19-2010, 04:28 PM
i always ran that software on stock injectors rob

Dynamite
08-19-2010, 04:32 PM
The k05 tune (I think it was k05) anyway the common non PC16 tune dose use stock injectors at 5bar.
What do you mean by the boost jumps around? what boost is hitting?

Robb12
08-19-2010, 04:36 PM
i always ran that software on stock injectors rob

doubt its a problem with the software/injectors unless one of my stock injectors is leaking, no worries about that. The boost will usually hesitate and drop about 3-5 PSI before kicking back up. If I continue to push the throttle, it'll boost properly up to ~23 PSI. Might just be more boost leaks, is the suction pump supposed to leak at all? (I ask because I just replaced that bugger)

edit: I only ask about the injectors because it's having a hard time starting.

Dynamite
08-19-2010, 04:42 PM
hmm 23 seams high to me, do you know what the tune is meant to spike to? I wouldnt have thought the suction pump should leak, but I dont have anything to back that up, hopefully someone else will know for sure.

Robb12
08-19-2010, 04:48 PM
As far as I know its the GIAC tune from AWE.

Gaberossi
08-19-2010, 04:50 PM
it sounds like you have the wrong FPR in there trying putting a 3 or 4bar in there and see what happens

Robb12
08-19-2010, 04:52 PM
well I've got the 034 afpr set at 5 bar which if I recall is about 72.5 PSI on the gauge. Taking it down to 3 bar would read about 43.5 PSI, 4 bar would be 58 PSI, correct?

Also wouldn't I be running rich/limp mode if I were runnin too much fuel?

Dynamite
08-19-2010, 05:59 PM
Na 5 bar for the giac k04 tune with stock injectors is correct, dont drop it or you will run really lean and have issues

flynnr
08-19-2010, 06:07 PM
be sure you are taking the vac hose off the top of the afpr when you are setting it.... have the car running with it off and adjust it to 5 bar then...

Robb12
08-19-2010, 06:28 PM
Ya that's how I have it set. I can smell fuel every once in a while when the car actually starts up.

thenofjboy
08-19-2010, 06:46 PM
Na 5 bar for the giac k04 tune with stock injectors is correct, dont drop it or you will run really lean and have issues

X2

also make sure you replace all the old vacuum lines if you havent done so already with silicone ones. where have you found leaks thus far? are you running the stock N75c? just curious, dont think thats the problem but you never know.

i forget what the 710n is rated to but you maybe you can try using a Forge DV or something similar with a stronger spring

i assume your spiking to 23psi correct? that is a tad high. AWE told me the KO4 chip should boost to 20psi but ive read about people boosting with that file

Robb12
08-19-2010, 06:54 PM
Ya I've definitely gone above 23 PSI but I'll double check, might just be me making that up. I'm running ECS race N75. Working on getting all my vac leaks taken care of. I was thinking it might be my DV as well. Any way to tell if that's gone bad? Would I hear a leak from it?

Robb12
08-19-2010, 09:46 PM
Well on the way home I only got up to 20 PSI, which I suppose is good since thats what its supposed to be at. Still a hesitation though so I'll check for more leaks tomorrow morning. Anything else I should check for?

walky_talky20
08-19-2010, 10:11 PM
Replace that suction jet pump, or just bypass and remove it. It should not leak anything out of anywhere on that thing. The common failure point is the large circular part on the "flared" end. The plastic is thin there and 2 years isn't a bad run for one of those on high boost.

Hesitation, eh. What are your fuel trims and have you logged the MAF?

flynnr
08-20-2010, 12:25 AM
make sure the plugs you put in are new ones.

Robb12
08-20-2010, 12:51 AM
Replace that suction jet pump, or just bypass and remove it. It should not leak anything out of anywhere on that thing. The common failure point is the large circular part on the "flared" end. The plastic is thin there and 2 years isn't a bad run for one of those on high boost.

Hesitation, eh. What are your fuel trims and have you logged the MAF?

As embarrassing as it is, in my years of roaming the forums I still dont exactly know what it means to log the MAF or check fuel trims. Sorry. I dont have a VAG COM but know somebody who does. I just barely bought the plugs and double checked to make sure they're gapped correctly.

Robb12
08-20-2010, 02:11 PM
Sorry about the delay on the pics, hopefully I'll get time tonight. What else could be the issue giving me a hard time starting the car?

DGAFxxx
08-20-2010, 04:37 PM
Did you run this software before you turbo install? If not maybe the tune is whack. My next guess would be your dv.

Robb12
08-20-2010, 04:55 PM
Nah I picked up the tune and put it in along with everything else. I had all said items set aside in my garage, installed them all in one weekend. I'm most likely going to upgrade the DV regardless. I just replaced the suction pump today so I'll be reporting back with results if that helped. Thinking of a Forge 007 DV, seems to be the most popular, which spring would I use?

Robb12
08-23-2010, 06:47 PM
*minor update* I've check and can't find any more boost leaks (last one I fixed was in the suction pump). I'm going to try coil packs next to see if that helps.

walky_talky20
08-23-2010, 09:48 PM
Hard start could be the coolant temp sensor. Just because it reads 12 o'clock, doesn't mean anything. There are 2 *completely separate* circuits inside the coolant temp sensor. 1 for the ECU and 1 for the instrument cluster. So the ECU can get a completely different reading than you get on the dash. There is about 6 different failure modes for that thing and it can fail however it likes. You can check it with vag-com with key on and engine off. It is measuring block 001. In your case, you want to check it when cold, because that is when you have the problem - cold start. The ECU should show the coolant temp to very close to outside ambient temperature. If it reads much higher than that, it can cause it to be difficult to start due to inadequate "cold start enrichment". Basically, no "choke". If you want to skip the diag and just rule it out, you can just replace it. It's cheap and easy.

For the hesitation problem, I would suggest you check your fuel trims and log the MAF and report the results. It is easy.
- Get vag-com
- Connect with key on, engine off
- Choose Engine, then "Measuring Blocks"
- Read block 032. Record the results. This is a long term fuel trim. No need to "log" during driving, just write it down.
- Then start the engine, and go to block 003.
- Use the "log" function to record a 3rd gear pull:
1- in 3rd gear, cruise at 1500 rpm
2- start the log (make sure you name it and know where it is going to save it, usually vag-com/logs)
3- go full throttle until at least 6k rpm
4- stop the log, stop the car, and exit vag-com
5- post the results here.
6- you might as well repeat this for block 115, which is actual vs requested boost

Hope that helps some.

Robb12
08-28-2010, 08:42 PM
Well I was able to rule out the coolant temp sensor, installed a new one today and it's still having a hard time starting up. I threw codes for a misfire in cylinder 3 the other day. Today, while replacing the temp sensor, I also fixed a boost leak i found (it seems to be just one after another sometimes :s). I cleared the misfire code and took it out, the boost pulled a bit better but then a flashing cel - later turned off and scanned, came up with another misfire in cylinder 3. I've got new coil packs on the way to see if I can rule that out.

Dynamite
08-28-2010, 08:54 PM
swap the coil packs around, if the misfire follows the coil pack then its a coil. ie swap the coil in cyl 3 with the one in cyl2 and see if it starts misfiring in cyl 2. If it dosnt move then it might be caused by either the spark plug in cyl3 or the ICM is another common issue that causes that.

Robb12
08-29-2010, 01:33 PM
Dont have an ICM...Just switched the plugs and double checked to make sure they're gapped at .028. Any other ideas on what could be causing start up issue?

A1 A2 German
08-29-2010, 07:45 PM
Start up issue:

I didn't read the rest of the thread to see if was covered. I do not know of the symptoms regarding Audis, like coil packs to Audis, it was ignition modules to VW and both are VAG. They create a nightmare and where a common problem, on all my Dubs, all where replaced. And guess what one Audi recall is......: Ignition Module

khj677turbo
08-29-2010, 09:01 PM
Hey robb, just to chime in, I never had a starting issue on the software from day one of install. I must say though that once I decided to chase vac leaks that the car ran much better. It should go just past 20 and hold pretty well. I also was running a race valve on that tune, along with a 5 bar and stock injectors. Wish you luck!

Robb12
08-29-2010, 09:30 PM
Hey robb, just to chime in, I never had a starting issue on the software from day one of install. I must say though that once I decided to chase vac leaks that the car ran much better. It should go just past 20 and hold pretty well. I also was running a race valve on that tune, along with a 5 bar and stock injectors. Wish you luck!

Thanks man. I'm pretty certain the software is not related to my start up issue, the cold start ups are where it's hurting, then after that if I try when the engine is warm, it starts just fine. This might be because I suspect my fuel pressure regulator is faulty (anyone wanna chime in on that??). Every vac leak I fix gets me a step towards harder pulls though [up] I've got misfire codes for cylinder 3 and 4 now. New coilpacks are coming tomorrow so I'll see if I can rule those out.

Robb12
08-30-2010, 09:45 PM
replaced coilpacks 3 & 4, now only the hesitant boost occurs in 1st, and 2nd gear. Also, does anybody know if the fpr can effect start ups? Maybe the fuel pump? The problem still only occurs on cold starts.

Trevor Ely
11-04-2010, 08:39 PM
Well, I'm glad to know I'm not the only ATW/KO4 with GIAC K05 that's having issues!

Supporting mods:
BW K04-15
GIAC K05
034 Adjustable FPR @ 5Bar
Hyperboost DV
APR Cat-back
LaBree HFC

Our problems aren't totally parallel, but the 5 Bar FPR has certainly taken it's toll on my original (130k mile) fuel pump. It almost immediately started screaming following the adjustment from 3 to 5 Bar. I have had some similar hesitating going on, though...No codes, as well.

Unfortunately, that's only the beginnging of my issues. Mine is also spark knocking at 20psi as well.

My currently plans are to change swap stock N75 for N75 "F" and swap the original fuel pump for an original Bosch 044 pump.

cdowns13
11-04-2010, 08:55 PM
i read through some of this but not all so sorry if this is something that has been said... i just did k04 on mine too... issues sound slightly similar.. issues i had that needed to be taken care of.. resetting the ECU after i had the tune put on...

another was my intake.. i was getting an irregular suction of air because it was a "custom" intake.. i put the stock airbox on and things ran a LOT smoother..

hope that helps?

Swank4
11-04-2010, 09:57 PM
Rob, did you do anything to your fuel pump? Is it still the original? The 5bar may be causing it to fail. Cold starts in my S4 were due to the check-valve on the fuel return line. If it's faulty, then fuel empties back into the fuel tank from the engine after the car has been sitting for a while. Then, when you go to start up again, it takes several cranks to get going.

wildbill
11-05-2010, 02:29 AM
im running the pc 16...and
after a change of packs, plugs, leaks, n75, correct hardware...mine still does that
ive tracked it HOPEFULLY to my maf..havent changed it yet.
maybe thsi helps, maybe not

protocol_droid
11-05-2010, 07:18 AM
You need to check the MAF. If that's not it, I hope it's not the RP turbo. They are known to have wastegate issues not closing properly. I had one (ko3s version) installed and had to take it out and replace with a borg warner unit. Sometimes the car would boost and other times it wouldn't. Hopefully it'll be something else a bit easier.

PoormansA4
11-05-2010, 09:08 AM
Hesitation, eh. What are your fuel trims and have you logged the MAF?

that's what i was thinking, cant you test it by unplugging it and seeing if it actually runs better?

Robb12
11-05-2010, 02:40 PM
Hey sorry guys I didnt notice that this thread got bumped. I actually had a hunch from the beginning that my 034 afpr was off, I dont know why but I remember adjusting it every week or so because the psi would constantly move around. I might have installed it incorrectly or didn't know how to adjust it properly. I just barely installed the USRT 5.0 bar fpr earlier this week and it solved all my problems. Let me know if that helps.

protocol_droid
11-05-2010, 03:44 PM
Sweet, problem solved. Does your turbo sound pretty noisy?

Robb12
11-05-2010, 04:08 PM
It's not really any louder than the chipped k03 was. But it definitely pulls harder (don't know why so many say a k04 is crap). I've got the forge 007 DV waiting in my room to be set up so that might make a difference. Otherwise if I wanted it louder I would throw in a CAI, but am afraid something will go wrong and I'm happy with stock :)

protocol_droid
11-05-2010, 05:18 PM
It's not really any louder than the chipped k03 was. But it definitely pulls harder (don't know why so many say a k04 is crap). I've got the forge 007 DV waiting in my room to be set up so that might make a difference. Otherwise if I wanted it louder I would throw in a CAI, but am afraid something will go wrong and I'm happy with stock :)

not BWKO4, we're talking RP KO4 here. Just check on the s4 forums to see the mega thread. I have one a kO3s version that failed.

Robb12
11-05-2010, 05:32 PM
Oh ya I didn't mention my RP k04 failed in a month, bad oil seals...I threw in a BW, got the RP covered under warranty. I wish I would've checked the mega thread before hand

protocol_droid
11-05-2010, 07:38 PM
Oh ya I didn't mention my RP k04 failed in a month, bad oil seals...I threw in a BW, got the RP covered under warranty. I wish I would've checked the mega thread before hand

what'd you do with the replacement rp ko4? Did it have the updated seals, washers and actuator?

Trevor Ely
11-06-2010, 07:51 PM
That's interesting that the 034 Adjustable FPR ended up being the culprit...That's what I'm using, but haven't seen any of the fluctuations you speak of. Did you adjust the fuel w/ zero vacuum?

Robb12
11-08-2010, 05:09 PM
what'd you do with the replacement rp ko4? Did it have the updated seals, washers and actuator?

I haven't got the replacement yet but I will definitely contact the warranty rep to see if they've got details on the replacement. I'll probably just try to turn around and sell it, noting that it is an RP, not BW so no guarantees on quality.


That's interesting that the 034 Adjustable FPR ended up being the culprit...That's what I'm using, but haven't seen any of the fluctuations you speak of. Did you adjust the fuel w/ zero vacuum?

I always adjusted it with the vac line disconnected. I don't exactly know what I did wrong, but it was most likely something, I'm constantly learning from my mistakes with this car..