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View Full Version : How do my spark plugs look after 10k miles?



GetBoosted84
08-15-2010, 05:24 AM
Hi there,

I started having misfire issues on cylinder 1 after hooking up a new 60ml nozzle on my meth setup (60ml at the throttle body & 100ml immediately after the intercooler) so I disconnected the meth and I was still getting the misfires so I think I fouled at least one plug since the meth system may have been engaging too early. And yes, both nozzles are running through a anti-siphon valve. I wanted to post up my plugs to get some feedback on how they look after 10k miles of 23psi. I'm hoping that this fixes it so I can re-engage the meth for the dyno runs this Saturday.

Here's what the plugs looked like when I just pulled them:
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b225/mywhitecivic/Audi%20A4%20Spark%20Plugs%2010k%20Miles/th_100_1642.jpg (http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b225/mywhitecivic/Audi%20A4%20Spark%20Plugs%2010k%20Miles/?action=view&current=100_1642.jpg)
Cylinder 4:
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b225/mywhitecivic/Audi%20A4%20Spark%20Plugs%2010k%20Miles/th_100_1646.jpg (http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b225/mywhitecivic/Audi%20A4%20Spark%20Plugs%2010k%20Miles/?action=view&current=100_1646.jpg)
Cylinder 3:
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b225/mywhitecivic/Audi%20A4%20Spark%20Plugs%2010k%20Miles/th_100_1645.jpg (http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b225/mywhitecivic/Audi%20A4%20Spark%20Plugs%2010k%20Miles/?action=view&current=100_1645.jpg)
Cylinder 2:
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b225/mywhitecivic/Audi%20A4%20Spark%20Plugs%2010k%20Miles/th_100_1643.jpg (http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b225/mywhitecivic/Audi%20A4%20Spark%20Plugs%2010k%20Miles/?action=view&current=100_1643.jpg)
Cylinder 1:
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b225/mywhitecivic/Audi%20A4%20Spark%20Plugs%2010k%20Miles/th_100_1647.jpg (http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b225/mywhitecivic/Audi%20A4%20Spark%20Plugs%2010k%20Miles/?action=view&current=100_1647.jpg)

black99.5a4
08-15-2010, 05:43 AM
you are lucky to of gotten NGK's to last 10k miles. The copper tipped BKR series is known to last an oil change, maybe 5k, especially chipped. I switched to NGK Iridiums and now will change them every 15-20k. I paid 3 times per plug but in the end, have a better plug.

Your plugs look good, but for 2.00 each, just replace them.

GetBoosted84
08-15-2010, 05:50 AM
Yep, already replaced them. I'm not chipped but I'm running a GT28R so I guess that's a little harder on them :-). Haven't gotten a chance to go out and take a spin with the new plugs yet.

If you're only getting 5k out of plugs, I'd bet you had them gapped at 0.32" instead of 0.028" like stock. I've done that... car actually did pull harder but I wore those plugs out within 5k miles. Normally I change out the NGK's every 10k to 15k miles and I've not had issues in the past. As for iridium plugs, I used to run them but they were a pain in the butt to locate around me so I swapped back to coppers.

black99.5a4
08-15-2010, 05:55 AM
.032 is stock, 028 is what you use when chipped.. i've had my plugs at both settings, depending on what range i'm at. When it gets winter here, i step back to 6's or it likes to buck at 25psi/MBC'ed. Still get the same wear on the plugs, as do the few locals i know around here.

Hence my move to better plugs. They've already paid for themselves time and time.

hercfe
08-15-2010, 06:03 AM
With that much meth you need a colder plug, or at very least a low gap(.025-.028). Otherwise you run the risk of blowing out the spark-which is what you are getting, not technically a misfire, but spark blowout. Cyl 1 looks a bit lean, but not at all bad for 10,000 miles. I'd consider getting an iridium plug with the meth setup. You will have a lower risk of blowout from the meth, and the plugs will burn hotter and last longer than standard plugs. Stay away from platinum, even though the meth cools the combustion charge, its still too hot for a platinum electrode. Are you using a progressive controller for your meth, or a boost based on/off switch? If you're using an on/off switch I'd consider switching it to a progressive controller. With the prog controller, try ramping the meth injection so it starts at about 15 psi and makes 100% of flow at full boost. It's a steep ramp, but in my experience with meth you make the best power, reliably, this way. I've been doing meth injection for nearly 2 decades now, and the latest plug and play progressive controllers are the best invention since sliced bread!

GetBoosted84
08-15-2010, 06:12 AM
.032 is stock, 028 is what you use when chipped.. i've had my plugs at both settings, depending on what range i'm at. When it gets winter here, i step back to 6's or it likes to buck at 25psi/MBC'ed. Still get the same wear on the plugs, as do the few locals i know around here.

Hence my move to better plugs. They've already paid for themselves time and time.
You're right. Been so long since I looked up stock plug gap. It is 0.032" from the factory.


With that much meth you need a colder plug, or at very least a low gap(.025-.028). Otherwise you run the risk of blowing out the spark-which is what you are getting, not technically a misfire, but spark blowout. Cyl 1 looks a bit lean, but not at all bad for 10,000 miles. I'd consider getting an iridium plug with the meth setup. You will have a lower risk of blowout from the meth, and the plugs will burn hotter and last longer than standard plugs. Stay away from platinum, even though the meth cools the combustion charge, its still too hot for a platinum electrode. Are you using a progressive controller for your meth, or a boost based on/off switch? If you're using an on/off switch I'd consider switching it to a progressive controller. With the prog controller, try ramping the meth injection so it starts at about 15 psi and makes 100% of flow at full boost. It's a steep ramp, but in my experience with meth you make the best power, reliably, this way. I've been doing meth injection for nearly 2 decades now, and the latest plug and play progressive controllers are the best invention since sliced bread!

I am running the stage 2 kit from snow so it's a progressive controller. I have mine set to start spraying at 12 psi (~2.9v) then ramping up to full spray at full boost (~4.8). I'll move the partial spray up a little bit to bring it up closer to 15 psi and see how that goes. How much meth are you spraying and what is your set up? I'm curious because they were recommending a 225ml jet for my intercooler sprayer in addition to the 60ml one but I wanted to try out my 100ml one first since I didn't want to go from spraying 100ml to 285ml in one step. I'd like to take it slower.

As for the iridiums, I can give them a whirl again after these new plugs are done. Especially since I just popped in the new ones about 15 minutes ago and already fired it up so I can't return them now.

black99.5a4
08-15-2010, 06:32 AM
what you are running meth wise, is def bogging it down.

A buddy of mine when we first met had APR stg3+ on his B6, Iridium, Snow Water/Meth with a 100ml nozzle right at the end of his APR intercooler. When we dynoed his car, it dynoed 259/258 without water/meth, on his "race" file it dynoed 261/258 with water/meth. Shortly after that I ripped the car apart for the 2.1 build and the IC lines, the back of the TB, the intake manifold, all had sitting water in the car. Even that little of a nozzle (now there were other factors, yes.. ) but imo, unless its at the TB and its tuned for the nozzle, when it comes on etc.. you'll see a cluster fuck like he did. That's my opinion. Water/Meth is awesome, but it cant be throw on and say here, throw this much of it at the car instead of race gas, on your race file.. you'll be golden.

GetBoosted84
08-15-2010, 06:47 AM
Yeah I know meth is worthless without a tune for it. That's exactly why I have it on the car, so that I can bring the timing out a bit.

There could have been a slew of reasons for your friend not getting the numbers he wanted with meth... first would more than likely be the placement of the nozzle. By placing the nozzle after the intercooler that far before the manifold, you are getting cooler IATs which is good for the engine but doesn't necessarily translate over to increased octane like he was looking for with his race file (honestly, his ecu was probably pulling timing to avoid issues). The reason for having the sprayer closer to the intake manifold is to get a higher concentration of methanol into the combustion chamber which will then increase octane. The reason why I'm using a two sprayer system is just that, I want a higher octane for increased timing advance (nothing crazy but a little bit) and I also want the cooling effect that evaporating water will have on the intake stream.

But we shall see since I'm putting the car on the dyno with and without meth next week so we will see whether or not all my research is correct.

black99.5a4
08-15-2010, 06:51 AM
That is exactly what i had told him before we even went to the dyno. It was far too far back to do anything worth a damn (i.e. adding octane), his car always had pretty good IATs even without meth. It was a 2860 with an intercooler that is actually pretty efficient. But him and I went back and forth many of times, him claiming the shop that previous did the work (and had the car all hashed up but that is another story), called Snow repeatedly and they asid that is where you'd stick their nozzle for octane increase. Oh well. My point of that was, 100ml flooded the car, You are running more and I forsee you flooding it as well until you get it situated. He tried Bosch and Copper NGK's with his water/meth, neither were successful. So he went back to the Iridiums as well.

Where in PA are you?

adr3naline fix
08-15-2010, 09:40 AM
Reminds me it's that time to replace my plugs/

OP - If my plugs looked like that after 10k miles, I'd be happy as a clam.

somebody5788
08-15-2010, 10:24 AM
I was thinking going with the iridium IX on mine for the supercharger. I have NGK double platinum's with over 30k on them.

GetBoosted84
08-15-2010, 11:41 AM
That is exactly what i had told him before we even went to the dyno. It was far too far back to do anything worth a damn (i.e. adding octane), his car always had pretty good IATs even without meth. It was a 2860 with an intercooler that is actually pretty efficient. But him and I went back and forth many of times, him claiming the shop that previous did the work (and had the car all hashed up but that is another story), called Snow repeatedly and they asid that is where you'd stick their nozzle for octane increase. Oh well. My point of that was, 100ml flooded the car, You are running more and I forsee you flooding it as well until you get it situated. He tried Bosch and Copper NGK's with his water/meth, neither were successful. So he went back to the Iridiums as well.

Where in PA are you?

I just went out for a spin with meth disabled and still got a misfire on cylinder one so there might be some leftover water in my intake track I think. I guess I'm going to have to pull it apart and check. Oh well. I'll order up a set of iridiums for next time around and compare them to my current plugs after 10k miles to see how they look.

And I'm right outside of Philly btw.

black99.5a4
08-15-2010, 11:55 AM
you might of made the coilpack go bad.. when you get something like too much water in the cylinder and it overworks the coilpack, they are known to die... i.e. i had 4 newish coils, did a leak down with a touch of oil in each cylinder.. fired it to let it idle and burn away.. that little bit of oil, blew 3 coilpacks at idle, due to not being able to burn it well enough.

luckly for you, your coils are only 20 bucks a pop at the dealer.

outside philly? nice, i'm about 45 mins west of KOP off the turnpike.

GetBoosted84
08-15-2010, 12:03 PM
I wish it was a coil pack, unfortunately it doesn't look that way. Because it only misfires once I really get on it, I doubt it's a coil pack. I've had those go before and when that happens the car starts to sound like a WRX since I'm down a cylinder.

2001A4QUATTRO
08-15-2010, 02:38 PM
Not true. Swap the coilpacks around. I have had the coil pack be weak and not make good spark on boost. Switching to iridiums helped and me replacing the coilpack resolved it (99 AEB)

GetBoosted84
08-15-2010, 03:29 PM
Ok I'll give it a whirl swapping the coil pack. I have a few spares. I'll report back.

walky_talky20
08-15-2010, 05:07 PM
I wouldn't recommend swapping in a used spare, or even a new one. The best thing is to swap it with one that is already in use on the car. That way it is a "known good", right at that present moment. Also, you swap the "possibly bad" coil to the other cylinder, so not only did you fix cylinder 1, you broke cylinder 2 - thus confirming the failure point. Swapping the existing ones adds less variables and leads to a better, more accurate diagnosis. That is just my opinion. Good luck.

flynnr
08-15-2010, 06:31 PM
off topic a bit but earlier in this thread you talk about 'bucking'

What causes this? poorly gapped plug? wrong temp plug?

I am running gt2860rs with bk7re and am experiencing bucking at higher RPM's

I will go out and buy new plugs tomorrow - what do you recommend? (i want the best plug for my setup - doesnt matter what it costs i just hate the bucking and want to rule out the plugs next (just tried all 4 of my friends coils and it didnt help)

Thanks a lot guys

GetBoosted84
08-15-2010, 07:08 PM
I wouldn't recommend swapping in a used spare, or even a new one. The best thing is to swap it with one that is already in use on the car. That way it is a "known good", right at that present moment. Also, you swap the "possibly bad" coil to the other cylinder, so not only did you fix cylinder 1, you broke cylinder 2 - thus confirming the failure point. Swapping the existing ones adds less variables and leads to a better, more accurate diagnosis. That is just my opinion. Good luck.
That's a good point. I still need to bring my car in for the coil pack TSB so I'm going to finally go make an appointment to get them replaced but in the main time I'm just going to toss in my spare once I verify that the misfire is gone.


off topic a bit but earlier in this thread you talk about 'bucking'

What causes this? poorly gapped plug? wrong temp plug?

I am running gt2860rs with bk7re and am experiencing bucking at higher RPM's

I will go out and buy new plugs tomorrow - what do you recommend? (i want the best plug for my setup - doesnt matter what it costs i just hate the bucking and want to rule out the plugs next (just tried all 4 of my friends coils and it didnt help)

Thanks a lot guys
Bucking is normally caused by lack of spark. That could mean pretty much anything in the path of getting spark into the combustion chamber is malfunctioning... normally on our cars (and a lot of others), it ends up being a spark plug or coil pack or distributor in the case of cars that have one.