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View Full Version : Late boost-71r, UPDATED



biketsai
08-09-2010, 09:16 PM
Hitting full boost a little after 4500rpm in 3rd gear on the new setup. My WG is fine, I do not have a TIP anymore with the new mafless setup-just a filter over the inlet. I removed the pancake valve and just slapped on a little autozone filter in its place.
I did rpelace hte EBC lines and im pretty sure one is now longer than the other, will that make a difference?
Should I turn the EBC off and see where it boosts?

Chris

Edit:Things I have done so far that didnt work:
-replaced wastegate
-Adjust EBC gain
-switched out EBC solenoids
-Ran with the WG line disconnected
-Plugged in a MBC instead

Audi Skate Snow
08-09-2010, 09:28 PM
you prolly have the lines mixed up on your EBC.... run it off the wastegate without the EBC and see what happens.

biketsai
08-09-2010, 09:32 PM
It does hit my peak boost, but it does it just late- would this still happen if I mixed them up?

aaronamerica
08-09-2010, 09:39 PM
Chris what's your vacuum reading at idle

Audi Skate Snow
08-09-2010, 09:40 PM
good questions... you dont have a boost leak do ya?

biketsai
08-09-2010, 09:42 PM
Reads just normal. on the profec its like -86

Audi Skate Snow
08-09-2010, 09:44 PM
Sounds like a wastegate issue to me....

biketsai
08-09-2010, 09:48 PM
Just checked the EBC lines, im pretty sure they are correct, COM to WG, and NO to turbo nipple. One of the lines is a lot longer than the other though.

Audi Skate Snow
08-09-2010, 09:52 PM
Same thing happened to me once and it turned out my wastegate bracket came loose

biketsai
08-09-2010, 09:53 PM
WG bracket on your internal WG setup? Im gonna check it out tomorrow morning and see if I have any play. I wanna get it resolved by Wednesday morning for my dyno day.

edit: the WG seemed tight when we installed it?

Audi Skate Snow
08-09-2010, 09:59 PM
WG bracket on your internal WG setup? Im gonna check it out tomorrow morning and see if I have any play. I wanna get it resolved by Wednesday morning for my dyno day.

yep... the bracket that holds the actuator to the turbo.

Do some snooping around in the day light, double check all lines and grab the WG arm to make sure everything is still intact..

It ran fine before you replaced all the lines?

aaronamerica
08-09-2010, 10:17 PM
Reads just normal. on the profec its like -86

Was that with you ac on?

Mine reads 99 at idle but with ac on it like 85-90

But with no ac at idle mine read 95-99 all day, check all your vac lines

And most importantly what does your mechanical boost gauge read, those are more accurate, plus this will let you know with the needle if your spiking boost or not building boost by having you ebc set too high or low


Ohhh one more thing-**- remember it was 107degrees outside today

biketsai
08-09-2010, 10:22 PM
Just did a few runs about 5 mins ago. With the EBC off, it still ramps up the boost late, same as the EBC on. Im going to feel the shaft tomorrow.
Aaron, can I remove the turbo without disconnecting the coolant and oil feed/return lines? If so, and I can easily access stuff, I can just replace the wastegate off my T28.

Audi Skate Snow
08-09-2010, 10:24 PM
Just did a few runs about 5 mins ago. With the EBC off, it still ramps up the boost late, same as the EBC on. Im going to feel the shaft tomorrow.
Aaron, can I remove the turbo without disconnecting the coolant and oil feed/return lines? If so, and I can easily access stuff, I can just replace the wastegate off my T28.

depending on what lines you have you can unbolt the turbo and move it around a little. on my old ELIM setup I had to take off the oil drain line (stock line) and the feed line... they shouldnt dump oil out when removing them unless you let the drain line hang lower than the block.

aaronamerica
08-10-2010, 08:04 AM
Reads just normal. on the profec its like -86

I think you have a vac leak somewhere, your EBC should be at 95-99 at vacuum without ac on at idle but what does your mechanical vacuum gauge read?

Bring the car to my job today ASAP and we can look at it or bring it to my house when I get off

aaronamerica
08-10-2010, 08:17 AM
Just did a few runs about 5 mins ago. With the EBC off, it still ramps up the boost late, same as the EBC on. Im going to feel the shaft tomorrow.
Aaron, can I remove the turbo without disconnecting the coolant and oil feed/return lines? If so, and I can easily access stuff, I can just replace the wastegate off my T28.

Yes, don't pull that turbo till we look at what's going on first.... I doubt that the wastegate is bad, that's the upgraded high pressure wastegate from ATP I have the original wastegate it came with in the garage, it wouldn't boost over 21psi

EuRo_KiD
08-10-2010, 09:04 AM
Just did a few runs about 5 mins ago. With the EBC off, it still ramps up the boost late, same as the EBC on. Im going to feel the shaft tomorrow.
Aaron, can I remove the turbo without disconnecting the coolant and oil feed/return lines? If so, and I can easily access stuff, I can just replace the wastegate off my T28.

LMAO Had to! lol I hope you get this resolved man. I know you put a lot of time and money into your car.

biketsai
08-10-2010, 01:17 PM
What are all possible things that could have happened to the WG?

JumboBlack1.8
08-10-2010, 01:28 PM
A similar thing happened in my last car to my GT2871r.....I wasn't boosting too late, I was pushing over 30+ psi, despite setting my boost controller up at 20psi. After checking just about everything in the system, I decided to test the wastegate.....I hooked up a vacuum line hose to the wastegate nipple on one end, and my air compressor on the other. I then supplied a few psi to the wastegate to see if it moved. What I found was that the wastegate wasn't opening at ALL, so the turbo kept building more and more boost despite my EBC's attempts to regulate boost. I ordered a new wastegate, and problem solved.

If you've already determined that you don't have any boost or vacuum leaks, something similar could be happening in your setup. It could be that your wastegate isn't moving as freely as a new one might. So any possible stiffness could result is boost building later, and/or sporadically.

If all signs are pointing you to the wastegate, check it with some compressed air and less us know what happens.

aaronamerica
08-10-2010, 02:03 PM
Chris says the turbo hits full boost at 4600rpm in 3rd gear starting at 2000rpm, is that normal? I drove his car after the install and boost felt normal and infact the car felt very aggressive to me....but honestly in 3rd gear at 2000rpm I would expect any turbo to spool slow???

beejohn
08-10-2010, 04:26 PM
Did it ever spool before 4500rpm? Are you running a test pipe? Do you have any logs of yourself hitting full boost earlier? Say on block 115

biketsai
08-10-2010, 08:14 PM
EBC solenoid is good, making changes on the EBC makes no difference. I'm thinking it's the wastegate- it is hooked up and tight, but do wastegates fail?

aaronamerica
08-10-2010, 09:31 PM
EBC solenoid is good, making changes on the EBC makes no difference. I'm thinking it's the wastegate- it is hooked up and tight, but do wastegates fail?

After driving your car today, there's definitely something wrong, so let me know what it does after swapping that wastegate, ill be up late

Audi Skate Snow
08-10-2010, 10:00 PM
so just to clarify....the car has ZERO boost until 2000 RPMS and then spools and hits full boost at 4000? Or does it not even boost until 4000?

biketsai
08-10-2010, 10:05 PM
so just to clarify....the car has ZERO boost until 2000 RPMS and then spools and hits full boost at 4000? Or does it not even boost until 4000?

Oh it drives normal, but it just hits full boost late. It starts spooling around 3k and hits around 10psi at 4k, then peak at 4800ish. Bout to go swap the WG

Audi Skate Snow
08-10-2010, 10:29 PM
Oh it drives normal, but it just hits full boost late. It starts spooling around 3k and hits around 10psi at 4k, then peak at 4800ish. Bout to go swap the WG

What EBC are you running?

JumboBlack1.8
08-10-2010, 11:42 PM
That's definitely not normal for a GT2871r. Mine used to hit full boost quite a bit ealier. In fact, my GT30R .82a/r boosts sooner than yours... From my experience, wastegates can fail. I'd definitely check that

biketsai
08-11-2010, 12:46 AM
Alright, just got finished replacing the WG with the one on my previous setup that worked just fine. Same situation, nothing changed at all- still late boost! I am getting 3psi at least by 2k rpm, then it just Slooooooooly decides to ramp up, and finally hit peak at 4500+. I dont know what else there could be!
Im running hte Greddy Profec spec 2, switched out the solenoid with Aarons working unit, no difference.


Keep the replies comin!
Chris

beejohn
08-11-2010, 02:03 AM
have you checked your brake booster?

Audi Skate Snow
08-11-2010, 08:30 AM
Alright. So 100% no boost leaks (including brake booster hose), EBC lines and solenoid are all good, wastegate checked out fine.

What are your settings on the EBC? also what software do you have. Almost acting like it has a boost leak.

you tried running straight off the wastegate right? No EBC connected to it?

biketsai
08-11-2010, 09:27 AM
I'm pretty positive there are no leaks, the car ran perfect before I put the 71r in. I haven't disconnected it yet, but I will do that today

biketsai
08-11-2010, 04:01 PM
Dynoed the car today, about 215AWHP LOL.

Any more ideas? Going to disconnect the WG line later tonight.

biketsai
08-11-2010, 04:27 PM
Dynoed the car today, about 215AWHP LOL.

Any more ideas? Going to disconnect the WG line later tonight.

Connected a MBC, no difference.
Unhooked wastegate line, no difference.

biketsai
08-11-2010, 04:43 PM
Here is my dyno from today:
Officially the slowest 71r?
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/volumebikec0/1stPlot.jpg

CrtchRktRcr
08-11-2010, 04:51 PM
This may be ridiculous.. But could it be the filter you're using. Is it allowing enough air through? I thought i read somewhere that someone had to use a larger filter for their setup..

I am probably way off, just tossing out ideas.

Audi Skate Snow
08-11-2010, 05:12 PM
have you checked for any codes or anything... or stored codes with vag com?

Audi Skate Snow
08-11-2010, 05:21 PM
check your line from intake manifold to the BOV. aahhaha

danphines
08-11-2010, 06:11 PM
IAT check them. I had the exact same problem on my other A4 with a 2871 elim and i threw a meth kit on and a larger garrett intercooler and now it spools perfectly.

biketsai
08-11-2010, 06:18 PM
Found a vac leak, fixed it but didnt resolve it 100%. Still boosts late

Audi Skate Snow
08-11-2010, 09:15 PM
alright do a complete boost leak test and lets see if there are any other leaks... we have ruled out a ton of things here.

PSi Concepts
08-12-2010, 01:19 AM
Do you happen to know what pressure wastegate actuator you are running? We've seen many 2871R's come with a 0.7bar wastegate, which is inadequate for the turbo. You will need at least a 1.0 bar actuator so that your EBC does not have to work so hard (maxing out duty cycle) to ramp the turbo up. This is a common issue. Another thing you might want to try to see if it is wastegate or EBC related, is to try pinching off the hose feeding into the wastegate (fold the hose, and zip tie it), so that it SHOULD stay shut. If you are able to make spool the turbo faster, than your EBC is in question. If pinching the wastegate does not help, then look at the actuator rod, and check the pre-tension. The diaphragm in actuators begin to "soften up" as well as the spring through time, and you may need to readjust the rod to tighten it up a bit.

Good luck, and please feel free to contact us should you need assistance.

aaronamerica
08-12-2010, 05:04 AM
alright do a complete boost leak test and lets see if there are any other leaks... we have ruled out a ton of things here.

2nd, and also have you put your inlet pipe back on yet just to see will that change anything, it could be that the turbo is not getting the air it needs in that location because there really no air circulation where its at now

biketsai
08-12-2010, 08:47 AM
Welll yesterday checked my BOV and that is leaking air through the vent when putting compressed air to the top nipple. Gonna throw in the DV to see how things go.

Audi Skate Snow
08-12-2010, 09:53 AM
That is pretty much one of the last options that it could be. Check the Spring you have in the BOV and make sure it is the right one.

biketsai
08-12-2010, 10:13 AM
BOV was toast, slapped in the DV, but still runs almost the same, a little more responsive.

Audi Skate Snow
08-12-2010, 10:17 AM
BOV was toast, slapped in the DV, but still runs almost the same, a little more responsive.

what turbo did you have before? And are you running the same exact software on that turbo you are now on this turbo?

biketsai
08-12-2010, 10:19 AM
PES T28 setup. I did run the software on it, for about a week. Come to think about it I never really double checked when it hit peak boost. However on the PES software I hit it at 3800.

Software issues?

Audi Skate Snow
08-12-2010, 10:24 AM
im thinking it could be software related with the new turbo that you have now.

2001A4QUATTRO
08-12-2010, 02:00 PM
log throttle request and position. Forget which block but log engine load as well. I had an issue before with late spool, ecu was not opening throttle 100% for whatever reason, I cant remember why right now.

biketsai
08-12-2010, 02:46 PM
log throttle request and position. Forget which block but log engine load as well. I had an issue before with late spool, ecu was not opening throttle 100% for whatever reason, I cant remember why right now.

Will try to get my VAGcom up and running

Audi Skate Snow
08-12-2010, 03:56 PM
hey got your last instant message saying maybe youll throw in your tune you had with your old turbo.

I wasn't aware you switched tunes when you got this turbo.... what software do you have and where did you get it?

biketsai
08-12-2010, 04:11 PM
TAPP 630- mafless
3 bar, 630cc

previous- PES tune 4 bar, 386cc

GetBoosted84
08-12-2010, 04:39 PM
Check your lambda readings before full boost. You could be running too rich while trying to build boost. That would cause lag as well.

biketsai
08-12-2010, 04:55 PM
Check your lambda readings before full boost. You could be running too rich while trying to build boost. That would cause lag as well.

Def not happening, im running pretty lean.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/volumebikec0/1stPlot.jpg

GetBoosted84
08-12-2010, 05:00 PM
ouch, yeah you are definitely not running rich.

grillhands
08-12-2010, 05:29 PM
Make sure all your manifold bolts are tight because it will take forever to hit boost if anyone of the bolts are loose. When i did my atp manifold 3 bolts became loose but no enough to make an exhuast leak louder than my magnaflow. I couldn't figure what the hell was wrong but when i decided to check the bolts and tighten them, the car was back to normal.

biketsai
08-12-2010, 09:42 PM
Some logs, the car might as well blow up with these crazy numbers.


Blocks 003, 115, 020
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/volumebikec0/003-115-020.jpg

Blocks 002, 020
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/volumebikec0/002-020.jpg

Im thinking about trying the old ECU to see if it spools sooner. Will I be fine doing this with my current 3 bar/630cc's on a 4bar/386cc tune?

Chris

GetBoosted84
08-13-2010, 04:09 AM
How old is your fuel pump? Unrelated to the lag issue but it may explain the lean issue. My setup was doing that when my fuel pump was dying and my injectors were maxing out.

biketsai
08-13-2010, 06:40 AM
How old is your fuel pump? Unrelated to the lag issue but it may explain the lean issue. My setup was doing that when my fuel pump was dying and my injectors were maxing out.

Hmm, I feel like an idiot again for buying used. Got a used Walbro 255, just slapped it in last week.

Did a log this morning under 13-14psi boost in fear of blowing up my car. Looks like it is doing much much better at this lower PSI, although the timing gets a tad hectic up top, at least its not like at 12.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/volumebikec0/003-031-020.jpg

danphines
08-13-2010, 06:46 AM
Log the intake air temp.

GetBoosted84
08-13-2010, 07:07 AM
Your a/f looks better in that log. The specified values are on target with the actual ones.

wildbill
08-13-2010, 07:27 AM
could be that the ecu needs to adjust...mine took a few days, about a full tank

biketsai
08-13-2010, 07:30 AM
could be that the ecu needs to adjust...mine took a few days, about a full tank

Ive def gone through a full tank, maybe 2 weeks worth of driving.

GetBoosted84
08-13-2010, 11:05 AM
I think your issue is mechanical to be honest. I would not run your old tune with the different injectors. That is probably not a good idea. Check for boost leaks and also check for loose bolts or crappy seals between the exhaust manifold and the head, and the turbo and the manifold. I used soapy water to check mine before it gets hot.

biketsai
08-13-2010, 12:16 PM
Will try the soapy water

Here aer some more logs in the mean time. 14psi- 3rd gear
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/volumebikec0/004-020-115-3gear.jpg

GetBoosted84
08-13-2010, 01:12 PM
That's a lot of timing being pulled.

dcampana
08-19-2010, 08:51 AM
chris- any updates ont his? i am not having issues with late spool, but i am having a TON of timing pulled. (around 11 to 11.5)

afr are a little rich up top on my WOT runs. in the upper 10's 10.7 to 10.9

just wondering where you stand now.

i think mine is ecu related:( will have to work that out.

A4DRIVR
08-19-2010, 10:19 AM
I think this may be a software issue... I'm beginning to wonder about the Tapp tunes on the AWM motors. I have Meastro, and a GT3076R/built motor... and with the base tune, I have wicked lag issues I have yet to figure out.

My car is apart right now to replace a rear main seal, as well as determine if I have a sensor or wiring failing somewhere.

biketsai
08-19-2010, 10:43 AM
chris- any updates ont his? i am not having issues with late spool, but i am having a TON of timing pulled. (around 11 to 11.5)

afr are a little rich up top on my WOT runs. in the upper 10's 10.7 to 10.9

just wondering where you stand now.

i think mine is ecu related:( will have to work that out.

I havent really messed with anything in the past couple of days. Just moved down to Austin and I havent even driven my car really. Mike Hood thinks its FMIC related and that my core is too small (26x6x2.5). I did some logs of my IAT and it is already technically running "heatsoaked" even on my first run. My timing is much better on the 13-14psi runs however it is still aggressive. What tune are you running?

dcampana
08-19-2010, 11:17 AM
I havent really messed with anything in the past couple of days. Just moved down to Austin and I havent even driven my car really. Mike Hood thinks its FMIC related and that my core is too small (26x6x2.5). I did some logs of my IAT and it is already technically running "heatsoaked" even on my first run. My timing is much better on the 13-14psi runs however it is still aggressive. What tune are you running?

i am running GIAC BT tune- not the best i know, but its killing me. uggg. i am thinking of going to TAPP tune or UNI tune at this point, but dont know.

A1 A2 German
08-19-2010, 03:50 PM
Just a thought, as it has happened to a few people and your never ever here about B5 owners replacing, your fuel filter.

dcampana
08-20-2010, 08:27 AM
yeah i thought that was my issue. just replaced (within the last 1k miles) with new fuel filter. its got me baffled. i am thinkingtune issues for me. maybe i will use lemmiwinks to adjust...

danphines
08-20-2010, 08:33 AM
I havent really messed with anything in the past couple of days. Just moved down to Austin and I havent even driven my car really. Mike Hood thinks its FMIC related and that my core is too small (26x6x2.5). I did some logs of my IAT and it is already technically running "heatsoaked" even on my first run. My timing is much better on the 13-14psi runs however it is still aggressive. What tune are you running?

I had the EXACT same problem as you. Garrett core and W/M kit replaced my old racetech and now it spools perfectly.

ZimbutheMonkey
10-04-2010, 02:27 PM
Saw the thread on your new FMIC and I thought I'd add my 2 bits. I had the exact same problem with my GTRS elim. I tightened the wastegate like crazy and it still boosted like yours. Changed my SMIC to a Mishimoto G-line FMIC, no change. Then I pulled my 2.5 in exhaust (with techtonics cat) and fabbed up a 3 in test pipe, straight though exhaust and bang, full spool at 3800-4000 instead of 5000. I figured it would make a little difference, but I didn't expect the change that I saw. Just like a totally different turbo.

biketsai
10-04-2010, 02:32 PM
Hmm, so you think my 2.5" APR with 2.5" testpipe can cause that issue too?

ZimbutheMonkey
10-04-2010, 03:55 PM
I wouldn't run to your driveway and start tearing it out. However maybe it's a contributing factor. It seems like you're running out of leads at this point.

biketsai
10-04-2010, 04:04 PM
Ill see how the FMIC goes, then go from there.

ZimbutheMonkey
10-04-2010, 04:13 PM
For sure, now get out and test that MF :)

aaronamerica
10-06-2010, 09:15 PM
Hey what did the car do when you swapped ecu's, I just ran some logs on my car on my race tune and its pulling 12deg timing