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View Full Version : No boost :( prease help Gt2860rs Edit: added video clip



Shhmaudi
08-08-2010, 07:55 PM
So I was about to go on a run today with a good group of people and my turbo wont make boost[=(]

It was driving perfect before, Cruzin on the freeway at 80 with lots of passing power.. Stopped let it idle for a couple mins as I was talking to a couple guys then shut her down.

Car sat for maybe 30 mins tops, went to start it back up to go on the drive and there was no boost...

I am completely stumped, boost gauge would go into vacuum 20/25 and wouldn't go above 0psi...

oil temps were a lil high at like 225 but within reason...

plently of oil still golden too! full synthetic mobil 1 0 40w

turbo has a brand new CHRA less than 200 miles on it

It was making a weird noise almost the exact same sound as a s4 with ko4s spooling down lol... pssswooo lol

Please help lets throw some Ideas around I am seriously bummed

Its a Gt2860rs

Poopie
08-08-2010, 07:57 PM
boost leak? Bad DV?

nunya
08-08-2010, 08:10 PM
Pull your inlet off and check the CHRA for shaft play. In and out and up and down. What kind of oil feed line did you use?

--dillon

ZimbutheMonkey
08-08-2010, 08:12 PM
You have run a boost leak test right? If not here's the link to make one http://www.a4mods.com/index.php?page=webcontent/pages/boostleak.html&category=5 If you don't have a boost leak then pull your diverter valve and see if it will hold vacuum. The easiest way is to push in the diaphragm from the bottom and them place your finger on the little vac fitting on top. Hold it for about 5 seconds and release. If the diaphragm 'pops' down then you're good. If not, then the diaphragm is torn and you need a new one.

Shhmaudi
08-08-2010, 10:17 PM
boost leak? Bad DV?
No boost leak that I know of.. it was in vaccum at 25psi.

Pull your inlet off and check the CHRA for shaft play. In and out and up and down. What kind of oil feed line did you use?
--dillon

Pulled off the TIP and checked the shaftplay and it seemed normal.. Im not to sure whats normal with a BB turbo [:|] I am using the stock feed and a upgraded return line that a hydroshop remade for me


You have run a boost leak test right? If not here's the link to make one http://www.a4mods.com/index.php?page=webcontent/pages/boostleak.html&category=5 If you don't have a boost leak then pull your diverter valve and see if it will hold vacuum. The easiest way is to push in the diaphragm from the bottom and them place your finger on the little vac fitting on top. Hold it for about 5 seconds and release. If the diaphragm 'pops' down then you're good. If not, then the diaphragm is torn and you need a new one.

I dont think it is a boost leak because my vac was at 20psi and I feel like I would have only lost a couple psi witha boost leak.. It pops down but it sags a little bit..? Meaning it stays up but after the diaphragm slides down a bit.. It still makes the pop noise tho when I let go of the top...

hellrot98m3
08-08-2010, 10:20 PM
wastegate stuck open? are the turbos audible at all?

Shhmaudi
08-08-2010, 10:27 PM
How would the wastegate get stuck open? You can hear the turbo. It would rev up for a second and then it would make like a high pitch whine and a slight chatter noise.. CHRA is 2 weeks old
no smoke from the exhaust either

ZimbutheMonkey
08-08-2010, 10:28 PM
I dont think it is a boost leak because my vac was at 20psi and I feel like I would have only lost a couple psi witha boost leak.. It pops down but it sags a little bit..? Meaning it stays up but after the diaphragm slides down a bit.. It still makes the pop noise tho when I let go of the top...

Vac doesn't really tell you much. A lot of boost leaks are through slits/cracks that open under positive pressure and close back and seal under vacuum. Trust me, it doesn't take much to loose a lot of boost. That said, it's more likely that you have a diverter valve issue if you're getting no boost at all. Have you checked the connections to the DV and tested the DV itself?

Shhmaudi
08-08-2010, 10:31 PM
Vac doesn't really tell you much. A lot of boost leaks are through slits/cracks that open under positive pressure and close back and seal under vacuum. Trust me, it doesn't take much to loose a lot of boost. That said, it's more likely that you have a diverter valve issue if you're getting no boost at all. Have you checked the connections to the DV and tested the DV itself?

I just took the DV out I am going to post a video here in a sec

Shhmaudi
08-08-2010, 11:01 PM
Heres the video of my DV

I hope this helps you understand a lil better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZgH8Xlt7aQ

ZimbutheMonkey
08-08-2010, 11:45 PM
Hmm, I'd say that looks a little odd. I can't say for sure how a forge type DV should hold vacuum, however it looks like it isn't holding like it should. That may account for the chattering sound. If it can't open the piston under vacuum conditions to vent the built up charge air then it will result in compressor surge when you let off the throttle.

I would take it apart to make sure that nothing is amiss. Maybe some other members with this type of DV can chime in and fill in some of my gaps here. Also, make sure to run a boost leak test as well. If the compressor is spinning freely and there is no indication of wear/contact on the compressor housing, then it's not likely to be a turbo failure.

There's a good saying that I try to hold to when diagnosing stuff like this "When you hear hoofs on the prairie, don't look for Zebras" In other words, the simplest explanation is usually the best.

Shhmaudi
08-09-2010, 12:02 AM
Hmm, I'd say that looks a little odd. I can't say for sure how a forge type DV should hold vacuum, however it looks like it isn't holding like it should. That may account for the chattering sound. If it can't open the piston under vacuum conditions to vent the built up charge air then it will result in compressor surge when you let off the throttle.

I would take it apart to make sure that nothing is amiss. Maybe some other members with this type of DV can chime in and fill in some of my gaps here. Also, make sure to run a boost leak test as well. If the compressor is spinning freely and there is no indication of wear/contact on the compressor housing, then it's not likely to be a turbo failure.

There's a good saying that I try to hold to when diagnosing stuff like this "When you hear hoofs on the prairie, don't look for Zebras" In other words, the simplest explanation is usually the best.

What does compressor surge sound like? I took it apart and it looked okay.. Then again I dont have another one I can compare it to... Hopefully someone with this knowledge will chime in. I started it up with the TIP off and when I turned it off I could hear the turbo still spinning...

I also did some searching...Maybe MAF took a shit?

Thanks for all your help

danphines
08-09-2010, 04:05 AM
you might have blown your turbo, my 2871 had the same issues when it blew and it was brand new with maybe 30 miles on it.

Shhmaudi
08-09-2010, 07:49 AM
you might have blown your turbo, my 2871 had the same issues when it blew and it was brand new with maybe 30 miles on it.

Why and how did your 2871 blow with only 30miles on it???

Poopie
08-09-2010, 08:07 AM
vacuum is from your intake manifold due to the slightly closed throttle body. Still check for leaks. a blown turbo is still a possibility.

ZimbutheMonkey
08-09-2010, 09:05 AM
you might have blown your turbo, my 2871 had the same issues when it blew and it was brand new with maybe 30 miles on it.

If it still spins freely it's unlikely. Shhmaudi have you done that boost leak test yet? Also, have you checked that you haven't popped a hose off on the positive pressure side of the turbo?

CrtchRktRcr
08-09-2010, 02:33 PM
if it was the maf it would just run shitty..

grillhands
08-09-2010, 04:47 PM
Make sure all your bolts are tight. When i did my t3/t4 manifold my turbo couldn't build boost because two bolts where loose on the manifold and it didn't even make noise really. Check all the nuts and bolts on the turbo and exhaust manifold just to be sure.

danphines
08-09-2010, 05:31 PM
Why and how did your 2871 blow with only 30miles on it???

Super shitty injectors that did not seal causing the fuel to combust inside the turbo, then it got thrown off balance and the fins slammed into the hosing and thats how i wasted $1000

Shhmaudi
08-09-2010, 07:34 PM
If it still spins freely it's unlikely. Shhmaudi have you done that boost leak test yet? Also, have you checked that you haven't popped a hose off on the positive pressure side of the turbo?

I havent been able to do a boost leak test yet :/ I had to work all day and I am exhausted. My air compressor is at the parentals house so it doesnt look like I am going to be able to run a test tonight.. Bummer... I am going to do another visual test right now.. post my findings

Shhmaudi
08-09-2010, 08:41 PM
So I took a video..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut7pj_h4w1o

this is what it sounds like.. Kind of hard to tell but it sounds like metal on metal...

maybe this second video will help. You can def hear it still spinning after I killed the motor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH7klKtcAs4

Again vac is at 20 and it wont go over 0psi on my boost gauge.

another video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6Y89TjGYeQ

nunya
08-09-2010, 09:18 PM
FWIW, my 71r wouldnt build boost and spun freely when it died. I can take a video of it tomorrow.

--dillon

Shhmaudi
08-09-2010, 09:32 PM
FWIW, my 71r wouldnt build boost and spun freely when it died. I can take a video of it tomorrow.

--dillon

Please do!

Shhmaudi
08-09-2010, 09:39 PM
there is an underlying problem here.. My car eats turbos for breakfast lunch and dinner

I might add this is the 3rd Gt28rs turbo to "blow" in the past 2 years... It runs great then all the sudden its toast when I start it up again... Oil pump was replaced not even 10k ago.. I dropped the pan and the pick up screen is clean..


I pray to god since this turbo is 2 weeks old it will be covered under my warranty : (

nunya
08-09-2010, 10:01 PM
I took five for me to realize it was the oil feed line.

--dillon

ZimbutheMonkey
08-09-2010, 10:11 PM
I took five for me to realize it was the oil feed line.

--dillon

Was the line not replaced when you did the turbo the first through fourth times?

nunya
08-09-2010, 10:13 PM
Yep, because ATP said the stock line would work. They kept warrantying it, so i didnt care.

--dillon

Shhmaudi
08-09-2010, 10:16 PM
I took five for me to realize it was the oil feed line.

--dillon

You went thru 5 turbos???

Well it looks like I am in the market for an oil feed line...

I am curious what did you find with your old line?

You have a 2.0 built motor? What turbo are you running?

ZimbutheMonkey
08-09-2010, 10:22 PM
there is an underlying problem here.. My car eats turbos for breakfast lunch and dinner

I might add this is the 3rd Gt28rs turbo to "blow" in the past 2 years... It runs great then all the sudden its toast when I start it up again... Oil pump was replaced not even 10k ago.. I dropped the pan and the pick up screen is clean..

I pray to god since this turbo is 2 weeks old it will be covered under my warranty : (

Nunya's statement raises the same question for you, has your oil supply line been replaced? The reason that I ask is that it is essential to make sure that you've replaced the stock line when you go from a BW journal bearing turbo to a BB one. The reason being is that BB turbos run restrictors on their oil feeds. if you look at the oiling orifice size that leads to the BB assembly, it's probably less than a mm wide. By way of comparison, a journal bearing oil inlet is about 3-4 mm wide.

What this means in application is that it takes very very little to block a BB turbo's oil supply. If you leave your old stock oil supply line on, there is likely build up in it that would normally pass though a journal bearing turbo if it broke off. However that same deposit could easily block a BB turbo's oil supply. I know that when I installed my GTRS I ditched the stock line and got a stainless steel braided line with a teflon interior made up. It cost me $70 for 3 feet, but it had to be done.

What was the diagnosis of your last 2 turbo failures?

BTW I took a look at your videos and the sound after shutdown isn't that bad. BB turbos are actually fairly noisy when they spin down so that fluttering sound is par for the course. Also, the fact that it's spinning that long means that it's a) spinning and b) getting oil (or at least some). Finally, I couldn't completely see your intake setup, but unless you haven't already I would suggest putting a heat shielded partition between the intake and the turbo. Believe me, having a setup like yours I've forgotten to put my heat shield back a few times and the difference in performance is very noticeable.

ZimbutheMonkey
08-09-2010, 10:26 PM
Yep, because ATP said the stock line would work. They kept warrantying it, so i didnt care.

--dillon

Wow, I'm amazed that they did. Getting a turbo warrantied from most manufacturers is like pulling teeth. I can't believe that ATP doesn't insist that their customers change out the stock line to a new braided one. Leaving an original stock line on a BB turbo is virtual turbo suicide if you ask me.

Shhmaudi
08-09-2010, 10:39 PM
Nunya's statement raises the same question for you, has your oil supply line been replaced? The reason that I ask is that it is essential to make sure that you've replaced the stock line when you go from a BW journal bearing turbo to a BB one. The reason being is that BB turbos run restrictors on their oil feeds. if you look at the oiling orifice size that leads to the BB assembly, it's probably less than a mm wide. By way of comparison, a journal bearing oil inlet is about 3-4 mm wide.

What this means in application is that it takes very very little to block a BB turbo's oil supply. If you leave your old stock oil supply line on, there is likely build up in it that would normally pass though a journal bearing turbo if it broke off. However that same deposit could easily block a BB turbo's oil supply. I know that when I installed my GTRS I ditched the stock line and got a stainless steel braided line with a teflon interior made up. It cost me $70 for 3 feet, but it had to be done.

What was the diagnosis of your last 2 turbo failures?

Im running the stock line too. ATP told me the same thing that the oil feed line was fine for the Eliminator kits... I have the brass fitting:
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-OIL-029&Category_Code=OIL

Last 2 just died literally driving one second and its healthy and purring like a kitten.. Next time I fire it up shes dead..

I am looking at this line:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AUDI-A4-A6-S4-S6-TT-36mm-1-8-NPT-TURBO-OIL-FEED-LINE-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ180509613118QQptZMotorsQ5f CarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

or this one

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/turbo-oil-feed-drain-braided-line-restrictor-gt30-gt35-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQfitsZMakeQ3aAudiQ7cModelQ3aA4QQ itemZ380257061527QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fParts Q5fAccessories

Shhmaudi
08-09-2010, 10:47 PM
BTW I took a look at your videos and the sound after shutdown isn't that bad. BB turbos are actually fairly noisy when they spin down so that fluttering sound is par for the course. Also, the fact that it's spinning that long means that it's a) spinning and b) getting oil (or at least some). Finally, I couldn't completely see your intake setup, but unless you haven't already I would suggest putting a heat shielded partition between the intake and the turbo. Believe me, having a setup like yours I've forgotten to put my heat shield back a few times and the difference in performance is very noticeable.
I have a heat shield, I took it out along with the air filter to try to capture the best video.

Wow, I'm amazed that they did. Getting a turbo warrantied from most manufacturers is like pulling teeth. I can't believe that ATP doesn't insist that their customers change out the stock line to a new braided one. Leaving an original stock line on a BB turbo is virtual turbo suicide if you ask me.

Why the F would ATP say that the stocker is fine then??

ZimbutheMonkey
08-09-2010, 10:56 PM
Because to help sell turbos they advertise that "all the stock lines bolt right up to our turbo!", they also tell you that you can run your stock exhaust manifold too [headbang]. What they don't say is that you better not push any high boost through it for any amount of time or the EGT's will skyrocket and possibly fry the turbine.

So when your previous 2 turbos died, didn't you have them inspected to see what did them in?

ZimbutheMonkey
08-09-2010, 11:04 PM
Im running the stock line too. ATP told me the same thing that the oil feed line was fine for the Eliminator kits... I have the brass fitting:
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-OIL-029&Category_Code=OIL

What ATP said is technically true, you can run a stock line as long as you have the fitting. But all the fitting does is restrict the oil feed to the turbo so you don't blow the oil seals out. As I said earlier though, they don't seem to mention that the deposits in the original stock line over the years can potentially block the restricted fitting.

Shhmaudi
08-09-2010, 11:11 PM
Because to help sell turbos they advertise that "all the stock lines bolt right up to our turbo!", they also tell you that you can run your stock exhaust manifold too [headbang]. What they don't say is that you better not push any high boost through it for any amount of time or the EGT's will skyrocket and possibly fry the turbine.

So when your previous 2 turbos died, didn't you have them inspected to see what did them in?

First one:
ATP accused me of using teflon tape on the brass oil restrictor... When I didnt.. Basically they were trying to get out of sending me a new turbo on their dime..

Second:
oil starvation, Due to a leak on my stock oil return line/ free oil change where they used cheap oil, which coked and starved the turbo..

ZimbutheMonkey
08-09-2010, 11:39 PM
So in either case it looked to be oil starvation. Is it possible that there were deposits from the oil line that were blocking things off? It certainly seems possible in the second case. Especially if coked up oil was to blame.

Shhmaudi
08-10-2010, 03:32 PM
Is the turbo blown? Can you tell from the video that its metal on metal sounding when the turbo is spinning?

Nunya video clip of the blown 71r?

Shhmaudi
08-10-2010, 07:51 PM
Maybe N75 valve is dead?

flynnr
08-10-2010, 08:00 PM
mine is not NEARLY that loud or that scary sounding when i kill the motor... i will have to take a vid of mine tomorrow for you... good luck man...

Shhmaudi
08-10-2010, 08:16 PM
mine is not NEARLY that loud or that scary sounding when i kill the motor... i will have to take a vid of mine tomorrow for you... good luck man...

I would love the video to compare!

Did you mean to say MOTOR? Or did you mean to say TURBO?

Shhmaudi
08-10-2010, 08:22 PM
Also is there a way I can remove the turbo without losing all my fresh oil and coolant???

thanks again for all your help guys!

ZimbutheMonkey
08-10-2010, 11:29 PM
Also is there a way I can remove the turbo without losing all my fresh oil and coolant???

thanks again for all your help guys!

Pretty tough to get the turbo out without draining the oil. However you can get it out without draining the coolant. Here's a link to my old K04-015 swap, you can see how I pinched the lines off with the appropriate little clamps. http://www.passatworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276852

Shhmaudi
08-11-2010, 06:15 PM
I did a boost test and I didn't hear any leaks. I was looking at my boost gauge and it was only moving like a cm. Its gotta be the turbo. Its making these weird noises.. pulling it out now.. ther goes all my fresh oil and coolant......

Shhmaudi
08-12-2010, 11:43 PM
Took off the TP and the Wastegate is closed. What are the symptoms of a stuck closed wastegate?

walky_talky20
08-13-2010, 11:16 AM
Took off the TP and the Wastegate is closed. What are the symptoms of a stuck closed wastegate?

Overboost. Lots of it. If it's closed and the flap is actually there, the wastegate isn't your problem. You can test it while you're there though. Put pressure to the actuator and make sure it moves with the correct pressure.

Shnab
08-13-2010, 12:39 PM
im expiriencing the same problem with my T28. i spiked over 20lbs the other day and now it wont boost at all. i tried pulling the battery out and trying to resset the car and its the same thing. EPC light came on and it idles rough.

Shhmaudi
08-13-2010, 03:56 PM
im expiriencing the same problem with my T28. i spiked over 20lbs the other day and now it wont boost at all. i tried pulling the battery out and trying to resset the car and its the same thing. EPC light came on and it idles rough.

Does it sound like my turbo? Does it keep spinning after you shut off the car?

black99.5a4
08-13-2010, 04:06 PM
i'd say a credit card thickness of movement is considered acceptable on a BB turbo.. you have a lot of metal on metal noise or grinding going on. I am going to say your turbo is shot. Did you make sure you primed the turbo before you started the car the first time after you put it in? I'd get a bigger feed with the right restrictor on it and call it a day. I dont see how the stock feed line is considered "okay".. I wouldnt trust it.

Shhmaudi
08-13-2010, 04:28 PM
i'd say a credit card thickness of movement is considered acceptable on a BB turbo.. you have a lot of metal on metal noise or grinding going on. I am going to say your turbo is shot. Did you make sure you primed the turbo before you started the car the first time after you put it in? I'd get a bigger feed with the right restrictor on it and call it a day. I dont see how the stock feed line is considered "okay".. I wouldnt trust it.

I primed the turbo, took the coil packs out and cranked it a dozen times then, put the coilpacks in and it fired up the first time!

Yea I am defintley going to replace the line. I am looking on ebay and other shops for one. is 3ft suffice?

black99.5a4
08-13-2010, 04:29 PM
IDK how long it has to be. I havent gotten around to mine yet. I am still building the short block.

Shhmaudi
08-13-2010, 05:20 PM
Update: did a wastegate test and it opens and closes.. oil starvation? Thers no shaft play tho.

Shhmaudi
08-14-2010, 08:49 PM
I took out the oil feed line and Blew compressed air threw it and it went threw fine.. it looks clean with no obstruction too. what would cause my turbo to blow in less than 200 miles?

I had a hydro shop rebuild my Oil drain line, and they made it a little to big.. So I guess when I was installing it had made a small crush right there:

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l240/socal_a4/a1cf0e63.jpg

Other than that the oil pump was replaced under 10k ago and looks new:
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l240/socal_a4/7a5657f7.jpg

thank you for trying to help me Mike. I have no idea why My car is eating turbos... This is the 3rd gt28rs my car has eaten

ZimbutheMonkey
08-14-2010, 10:24 PM
OK, have we actually established that the turbo is shot yet? I've seen every other shred of evidence, theory, speculation and conjecture. However there's no conclusive evidence of the turbo being blown. Does it spin freely? Have you pulled the housings to see if there is metal to metal contact? Is there excessive play? Have you asked it how it's feeling today? Show me the money! [>_<]

Shhmaudi
08-15-2010, 12:47 AM
I am trying to figure out why it blew... it spins freely but it sounds like metal on metal. I am going to pull the housings tomorrow. There's is a little bit of shaftplay. My guess would be bearings..? But why?its 2 weeks old.. because of the bend in the oil return line??

ZimbutheMonkey
08-15-2010, 09:37 AM
Probably not, if I recall correctly a kinked return line will cause a pressure buildup that will blow the oil seals. You'll smoke like a SOB but the turbo will still run. If it's an oil starvation issue then it's most likely related to the oil supply line. Were there any coke deposits in the orifice on the restrictor fitting that threads into the turbo?

What isn't making sense here is why the turbo would be spinning freely but making absolutely no boost whatsoever. I've seen it happen in journal bearing turbos where they'll move by hand but make no boost. However they wouldn't actually spin more than 1/2 to 3/4 of a rotation. Yours can be heard spinning down for 5-10 seconds after shutdown. With that much free rotation it should be making some sort of boost. Unless you've completely roasted your turbine. In which case it should probably have gradually stopped making boost. Post pics of what you find.

Shhmaudi
08-15-2010, 11:57 AM
Probably not, if I recall correctly a kinked return line will cause a pressure buildup that will blow the oil seals. You'll smoke like a SOB but the turbo will still run. If it's an oil starvation issue then it's most likely related to the oil supply line. Were there any coke deposits in the orifice on the restrictor fitting that threads into the turbo?

What isn't making sense here is why the turbo would be spinning freely but making absolutely no boost whatsoever. I've seen it happen in journal bearing turbos where they'll move by hand but make no boost. However they wouldn't actually spin more than 1/2 to 3/4 of a rotation. Yours can be heard spinning down for 5-10 seconds after shutdown. With that much free rotation it should be making some sort of boost. Unless you've completely roasted your turbine. In which case it should probably have gradually stopped making boost. Post pics of what you find.

There was no Smoke that ever came out of my exhaust(one of the first things I looked for). Oil supply line was clean with no obstuctions.(blew 30psi threw it and it came out the other side) regardless I am upgrading with SS. There were no deposits in the oil restrictor, infact when I was taking the housings off the CHRA was still bleeding oil out of it...

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l240/socal_a4/3502a5ae.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l240/socal_a4/19b9f0ce.jpg

I Literally shut down my car and after it was running GREAT (even with a proper cool down.. Started it up 30 mins later and No boost at all(still vacs at ~20psi)

Pic of the impellers: No foreign object impellers look great with no bends at all...

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l240/socal_a4/17046ade.jpg

I found this tho:
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l240/socal_a4/bec8a1f0.jpg

Lil youtube video.. I dont think this is good, I think this is the metal on metal sound I am hearing.. Would a cracked exhaust housing cause this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1lPZzLsHNY

thank you for all the insight. Its really frustrating not knowing what would cause my turbo to blow so soon.. I am hoping it was a faulty CHRA because there was oil in it and there was no foreign object invasion.. Maybe the oil return line?

black99.5a4
08-15-2010, 12:16 PM
Where did you get this turbo again?

flynnr
08-15-2010, 07:06 PM
Thats not the right oil restrictor.... the one you want should look like it funnels down to a pen head size... that one looks way too big. (if im looking at the right fitting ... first pic in post #56 in this thread)

Shhmaudi
08-15-2010, 08:19 PM
Thats not the right oil restrictor.... the one you want should look like it funnels down to a pen head size... that one looks way too big. (if im looking at the right fitting ... first pic in post #56 in this thread)

Its the one ATP says to use with your stock lines.. Are you using your stock feed line?
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-OIL-029&Category_Code=OIL <<** This one I mentioned in post #31 It is a .35 restrictor.

ZimbutheMonkey
08-15-2010, 08:50 PM
OK, now I'd say your turbo is pooched. The turbine looks like it's made metal to metal contact on the exducer. Also, it looks to have way too much play on the turbine end. Could you post a vid with some close up shots of the turbine tips and also include how much play it has when the center section is held completely still (i.e. in a vice?). As for what killed it, I would be getting a detailed post mortem to pin down the cause. Don't install another turbo until you've figured it out or else it will more than likely happen again.

Shhmaudi
08-15-2010, 09:09 PM
OK, now I'd say your turbo is pooched. The turbine looks like it's made metal to metal contact on the exducer. Also, it looks to have way too much play on the turbine end. Could you post a vid with some close up shots of the turbine tips and also include how much play it has when the center section is held completely still (i.e. in a vice?). As for what killed it, I would be getting a detailed post mortem to pin down the cause. Don't install another turbo until you've figured it out or else it will more than likely happen again.

Thank you for all your help. I am taking it to a shop to get idea. I know its def not oil starvation Because it was bleeding oil out of the CHRA when I was taking off the housings.. Not foreign object because the impellers are fine.. But on the exhaust side theres that metal on metal..

ZimbutheMonkey
08-15-2010, 09:50 PM
Happy to help, I've blown my fair share of turbos too and I know it's frustrating as all hell having $1000 paperweights. It could still have been oil starvation even with oil in the CHRA. If a chunk of debris cut the oil supply off a few days earlier it could have been enough to score the bearings and then it would have been all downhill from there. Those BB turbos can't tolerate much pitting or scoring on their bearing systems. Honestly, that's why I'm going with a BW extended tip S256 if I ever go bigger than my GTRS elim. Big thick journal bearing bastards that can stand up to all kinds of punishment and still be rebuilt locally if they fail.

Shhmaudi
08-16-2010, 04:08 PM
Its the one ATP says to use with your stock lines.. Are you using your stock feed line?
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-OIL-029&Category_Code=OIL <<** This one I mentioned in post #31 It is a .35 restrictor.

I took it to a shop to evaluate it and they said it was oil starvation, FVCK not covered under warranty........ They said that the Oil restrictor:http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-OIL-029&Category_Code=OIL That I am using(THE ONE ATP SAY TO USE WITH THEIR GTBB ELIM KITS) is too small and it was what caused the turbo to blow... Can I take ATP to small claims? WTF I am super pissed and bummed... How can they recommend that fitting? Ive been through 3 turbos and 1000 dollars now because they refuse to warranty it... Can I take ATP to small claims? This is outrageous!

Shhmaudi
08-16-2010, 05:04 PM
Gonna replace the oil return line and buy these parts:
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=ATP-OIL-015&Category_Code=

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=ATP-OIL-028&Category_Code=

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=ATP-FTG-029&Category_Code=

flynnr
08-16-2010, 05:20 PM
i dont think the oil starvation was caused by the wrong restrictor, i think it was caused by the wrong oil drain line (kinked like that)

i could be wrong though

flynnr
08-16-2010, 07:59 PM
Thats not the right oil restrictor.... the one you want should look like it funnels down to a pen head size... that one looks way too big. (if im looking at the right fitting ... first pic in post #56 in this thread)


Its the one ATP says to use with your stock lines.. Are you using your stock feed line?
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-OIL-029&Category_Code=OIL <<** This one I mentioned in post #31 It is a .35 restrictor.

i know you think its right, but look at the link mike posted on your other post on AF



Your link doesn't work for the oil restrictor in your other post, but it in fact needs to be the one with the smaller hole made for the GT BB turbos. I use that same one. Problem is that your drain was kinked acting like another restrictor.

If you use a oil adapter that is too large you can blow out the oil seals on the turbo. The restrictor decrease the oil pressure inside the CHRA since our cars have very high oil pressure which the GT BB CHRA can not handle.

This is the correct oil restrictor fitting for a GT BB turbo (http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-OIL-021&Category_Code=BCS)

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/Catalog%20Images/Oil%20Supply/gtoilinlet035-01.jpg
Same one I run on my GT35r.


that opening is SO tiny compared to the one in your pic. just sayin

ZimbutheMonkey
08-16-2010, 08:18 PM
Well, live and learn I guess.

Shhmaudi
08-16-2010, 08:39 PM
Flynnr Are you using your stock oil lines? Or are you using the the restrictor that mike said hes using??

Shhmaudi
08-16-2010, 09:14 PM
Its the same thing? but compatible with my stock lines, and Mine funnels instead of being rounded at the tip.

Whats the difference between my fitting and the -4?? since they're both .035 restrictor..

Sorry for being naive I am just trying to learn.

ZimbutheMonkey
08-16-2010, 09:35 PM
Any chance you could clean yours up and post some pics? That would probably help.

Shhmaudi
08-16-2010, 10:06 PM
this Was the fitting I was using with my stock lines..
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l240/socal_a4/6f514b5a.jpg

.035 restrictor..

ZimbutheMonkey
08-16-2010, 10:15 PM
Looks right to me, I'm starting to think that Mike may have hit on the answer when he suggested that your oil return line kink may have further restricted the oil feed. Email ATP with the post mortem findings and see what they have to say I guess.

Shhmaudi
08-28-2010, 09:47 AM
Turbo Shop says it was NOT oil starvation... It was super heated oil that turned to dust..AKA carbon deposits.. So I got a new on I am about to throw on today. I got the kink out of the oil return line and it was shortened so it shouldnt kink again.. Hopefully that was the problem. Kink was acting like an hour glass....? Because everything else is fine..

ZimbutheMonkey
08-28-2010, 10:01 AM
Yeah, that makes some sense. So the oil was being held in the bearing housing long enough for it to heat and coke out? I'm surprised that you didn't blow out the seals though. You'd figure if there was that much of a restriction to the oil returning that it would build enough pressure to start blowing smoke.

Shhmaudi
08-28-2010, 11:10 AM
Yea.. I know^^ But the seals never blew out.. and there was no smoke.. I bored out my oil restrictor to .046 due to many Experts at VW/ audi shops telling me to. I am going to go put on my new turbo! and hopefully get a video up for you guys today!

99blueb5
08-28-2010, 12:57 PM
i was in the same boat as you man, when i got my gtrs is would turn fine but sounded like a dentist drill when i was taken off my frioneds car, i did hte exchange program and got my new CHRA, the APR lines that came with the kit looked a little funny and the turbo was oil starved to begin with, so i ended up buying 4ft of braded line with those 2 same fittings you got and ive got around 10k miles on it and no problems so far, i almost will put money on it was a mix of the oil feed line and return lines causing the problems, evben though they say you can you them i wouldnt suggest it, plus they would have to be almost new lines to flow the correct amount without any deposits

Shhmaudi
08-28-2010, 02:08 PM
I had a pressure test done with the oil feed line and 2 shops said its fine.. So I Sprayed ample amounts of brake cleaner through it, and hit it out with 100psi! I tried buying new lines but both shops said it was not needed.... I found out that the stock line is a -6 feed tho. I am almost positive that the problem was the oil return line with the kink. Im going back out to bolt up the turbo now!!

thanks for the input 99blue. What restrictor are you using?

99blueb5
08-28-2010, 02:12 PM
Yea.. I know^^ But the seals never blew out.. and there was no smoke.. I bored out my oil restrictor to .046 due to many Experts at VW/ audi shops telling me to. I am going to go put on my new turbo! and hopefully get a video up for you guys today!

the restricter im running is .035 and i know like 4 other people with elim kits running this restrictor size and no problems, .046 might be to big and allow to much oil pressure to the center section

99blueb5
08-28-2010, 03:59 PM
the only problem with ussing brake clean and compressed air is the oil temps pretty much cake the oil deposits into the lines and its pretty much impossible to make it anywhere near stock clean so theres always going to be slight deposts in the lines unless you replace it , the $80 spent on new stailness lines is pretty much like extra insurance agaisnt future oil related failure

Shhmaudi
08-28-2010, 10:10 PM
the only problem with ussing brake clean and compressed air is the oil temps pretty much cake the oil deposits into the lines and its pretty much impossible to make it anywhere near stock clean so theres always going to be slight deposts in the lines unless you replace it , the $80 spent on new stailness lines is pretty much like extra insurance agaisnt future oil related failure

Where did you get your oil feed and return lines for $80?? Freakin sick of this hydro shop that rebuilt my oil return line, they too big AGAIN.. EVEN after I told them what needed to be fixed... I am so pissed! It was my goal to get my car running this weekend and now I cant because they arent open till monday. BUMMED...

justinp95
09-22-2010, 02:05 PM
So what was even wrong with the turbo? Alot of shaft play and thats it?

Shhmaudi
09-22-2010, 10:11 PM
So what was even wrong with the turbo? Alot of shaft play and thats it?

Turbo was blown because the Fvcking shop I took my oil return line could not make the line I wanted and it kinked right beneath the turbo causing an abundance of heat and eventually blowing it. Went to a different shop and they rebuilt my oil feed and oil return for 100 out the door. WAY worth it IMO guys at the second shop I went to were pros and extremely friendly and helpful.. Guys at the first shop I went to SAMCO complete assholes!

99blueb5
09-22-2010, 10:34 PM
Where did you get your oil feed and return lines for $80?? Freakin sick of this hydro shop that rebuilt my oil return line, they too big AGAIN.. EVEN after I told them what needed to be fixed... I am so pissed! It was my goal to get my car running this weekend and now I cant because they arent open till monday. BUMMED...

i got mine through atp turbo, cts turbo also has some good pricing http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=tp&Category_Code=ATP-OIL1

but if you had good luck with the second shop then your problems are gone

justinp95
09-23-2010, 07:31 AM
But in what way was it blown? Did everything look right now some how it wouldnt work? Ie shaft play seemed minimal, both sides spun freely and they werent hitting the housing?

Shhmaudi
09-23-2010, 12:15 PM
Basically what happened, there was a kink directly under the oil return line which acted like a bottle neck.. This caused a problem in the flow and the pressure was building up in the CHRA. Oil couldn't be pushed out of the turbo fast enough.. So it was super heated oil that eventually broke down into carbon deposits AKA dust. This caused the CHRA shaft to get scored and die. I blame it entirely on the shitheads at Samco automotive,pure assholes there. Owner is the biggest POS ever to walk this planet.. waste of air IMO. He tried to charge me again when HE couldn't build me what I wanted and what we agreed on. He also would not refund my money because he said it was not his problem...

justinp95
09-23-2010, 12:45 PM
Ok, did it not spin or what? I have a thread with pics and stuff of my turbo and it looks fine, but not building boost. Guy that looked at it said if both ends were tight and free it would build boost. Im just trying to make sure there isnt a internal issue.

Shhmaudi
09-23-2010, 02:53 PM
Yea it spun but didnt build boost... Did you watch my videos?? Guy that looked at it is a moron... "If both ends are tight...." From what it says in your sig. Your running a 2871 BB, my guess if its not building boost your CHRA is shot. Next step is mailing it to Turbosdirect in Arizona and having mike take a look at it. Great guys over there and youll probably qualify for the BB svc program so its likely that your only gonna have to spend ~600 instead of 1200 for a whole new turbo.

Ask me how I know..

Edit: they will also tell you what caused it to blow and help you identify the problem. They are pros