B8 Aftermarket Sound System Pictures

[JWebb_C7_Comp]

I’m making good progress on the installation of the front end speakers. This week I ran the speaker wires up to the front of the car, made plates to mount the AudioFrog GB25 midrange drivers in the dash and modified the factory B&O grilles to mount the AudioFrog grilles.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180908/0ead8d6744ed02f9a42a797ffc7cdee1.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180908/6eed9813c6b492037b8b99bd9e63526f.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180908/b9d86a9139d09a70be91f3fe66f7e28b.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180908/75aee9a4182c07c6880459a4ad34ec79.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180908/854160540d0265c3d0b615942705f0c5.jpg




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This looks very impressive. How do the AFs sound compared to stock?


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[cybernet99]

This looks very impressive. How do the AFs sound compared to stock?


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I only have the door tweeters actually wired in so far, and they are using the stock signal from the B&O amp right now. BUT ... I can say that the difference between the AF tweeter and the B&O tweeter was ten times a "night and day difference"! Can't even begin to compare the two. I'm very eager to get the rest of the AF gear installed and wired up, but I haven't made it that far yet. I pulled the AF mids back out and put in the factory mids again ... I'm working on the door woofers this weekend, and hopefully, wiring up the amps next weekend, then, once the amps are wired, I'll install and connect all of the AF drivers in the front and tune the EQ's, DSP delay, Crossover points etc.

I'm really trying to take my time with this, quality above all else. In the back of my mind, I am considering competing in a few IASCA car audio comps, so the installation and quality have to be top notch to be competitive.

[cybernet99]

Yup, the adapter was designed to take input from the HU to feed an aftermarket amp. I'm not certain what the pinouts are like for B&O systems though. Do you just have the one big connector on your amp?

Also the boards have arrived, the connector fits in perfectly. A friend of mine put together a quickie logo so it wouldn't look so plain -- gonna bust out the soldering iron this weekend and give it a shot :)

https://eipromb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/img_0005-e1536182000319.jpg

So I finally took some photos of the connections to the B&O amp in the back of my car. I’m beginning to wonder if the smaller connector at the bottom of the amp isn’t the input side from the HU output?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180910/a9b9865a6e9230834f0ad9186713040b.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180910/7cc95b8dc7ce5af9f7b95bd1397bc1b8.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180910/2dab08cfb52ec232da039672ce71217c.jpg

The size of the wires going into the bottom of the amp are more appropriate for the low voltage signal coming from the HU.

If this is the connection I need to grab the feed from, then if I was going to try to do something like you have done for he other connector, it looks like I would need one of these to start with (https://www.mouser.ca/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity/1-963539-1?qs=%2fha2pyFadujPvNreW0ezBRXMcUoGAFMnSiKERQVe1dR CJ5k%252b9XwHVA%3d%3d).

[eipromb]

I’m making good progress on the installation of the front end speakers. This week I ran the speaker wires up to the front of the car, made plates to mount the AudioFrog GB25 midrange drivers in the dash and modified the factory B&O grilles to mount the AudioFrog grilles.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180908/0ead8d6744ed02f9a42a797ffc7cdee1.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180908/6eed9813c6b492037b8b99bd9e63526f.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180908/b9d86a9139d09a70be91f3fe66f7e28b.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180908/75aee9a4182c07c6880459a4ad34ec79.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180908/854160540d0265c3d0b615942705f0c5.jpg




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Those look AMAZING!

[eipromb]

So I finally took some photos of the connections to the B&O amp in the back of my car. I’m beginning to wonder if the smaller connector at the bottom of the amp isn’t the input side from the HU output?

The size of the wires going into the bottom of the amp are more appropriate for the low voltage signal coming from the HU.

If this is the connection I need to grab the feed from, then if I was going to try to do something like you have done for he other connector, it looks like I would need one of these to start with (https://www.mouser.ca/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity/1-963539-1?qs=%2fha2pyFadujPvNreW0ezBRXMcUoGAFMnSiKERQVe1dR CJ5k%252b9XwHVA%3d%3d).

Hrm, I don’t have that same connector on mine. Those very well could be the HU signals. I’m sure someone on these forums must have posted some pinouts to that at some point.

EDIT: Found this, is yours 18 pin?
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/792967-Adding-Aux-to-MMI-2G-with-bang-amp-oulfsen

[eipromb]

Designed the box, and got it wired up and tested! The box didn't print out as smoothly as I would have liked but it does the job. Volume control still works, didn't test the phone yet but from looking at the pinout I think all that functionality is handled within the HU.

https://eipromb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/img_0053-e1536764636616.jpg

https://eipromb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/img_0048-e1536764666471.jpg

https://eipromb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/img_1402-e1536764689105.jpg

I'm pretty comfortable that everything works, if anyone is still interested in one PM me. I have 8 boards spare, I can order a few more connectors and print out the boxes for a complete kit, or let go of just the boards if you want to diy.

[cybernet99]

Hrm, I don’t have that same connector on mine. Those very well could be the HU signals. I’m sure someone on these forums must have posted some pinouts to that at some point.

EDIT: Found this, is yours 18 pin?
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/792967-Adding-Aux-to-MMI-2G-with-bang-amp-oulfsen

Great find! That is the first time I have ever seen someone mention anything about the AUX in with the B&O ... So, AUX/AMI ... must be the same interface then into the amp. ok, that makes sense, I had thought that the AUX/AMI was piped into the HU in the dash wiring harness.

Now that makes my next step interesting ... since I have the RSNAV headunit, and I am leveraging the AMI unit in my car (I'm non-MMI) with the RSNAV. do I need to merge the signals together into a single summed output into the Kicker amps. Since I want to be able to put all signals through the sound system, OEM Bluetooth calls with my iPhone, OEM voice prompts, OEM Radio, and all of the goodness from the RSNAV (Hi-RES audio, Navigation etc ...)

I definitely need to do a bunch of testing to figure out just what sound is going across what wires ... :( .... or Sum them together (if LF/LR/RF/RR) etc are in both connectors. Summing them should cause no problems I believe.

- - - Updated - - -


Designed the box, and got it wired up and tested! The box didn't print out as smoothly as I would have liked but it does the job. Volume control still works, didn't test the phone yet but from looking at the pinout I think all that functionality is handled within the HU.

https://eipromb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/img_0053-e1536764636616.jpg

https://eipromb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/img_0048-e1536764666471.jpg

https://eipromb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/img_1402-e1536764689105.jpg

I'm pretty comfortable that everything works, if anyone is still interested in one PM me. I have 8 boards spare, I can order a few more connectors and print out the boxes for a complete kit, or let go of just the boards if you want to diy.

REALLY nice job with the box, well done!

[ccarrigan]

Just as a heads up, eipromb and I have been chatting back and forth. I wanted to do a very similar setup and he offered to print and ship all of the parts he has listed so far. SUPER reasonable price too! Everything arrived exactly as intended and he's been super helpful. Thanks again!

[Slick_B8]

Just as a heads up, eipromb and I have been chatting back and forth. I wanted to do a very similar setup and he offered to print and ship all of the parts he has listed so far. SUPER reasonable price too! Everything arrived exactly as intended and he's been super helpful. Thanks again!

X2, going with the exact same setup he has and eipromb has been super helpful. Waiting on the parts but good stuff takes time.

[eipromb]

X2, going with the exact same setup he has and eipromb has been super helpful. Waiting on the parts but good stuff takes time.

Thanks guys!

[eipromb]

Been pretty busy with work the past few weeks, but I managed to get some time this weekend to work on the amp rack. It’s coming along nicely, hoping to get to wiring soon.

Still working on the rack columns, but here it is stacked.

Level 1: amp
Level 2: second amp
Level 3: power distribution/ headunit-amp converter
Level 4: DSP

The amps are Hertz DPower4 primarily for their size and priced very nicely when on sale, and the DSP is a Dayton 408.

https://eipromb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/img_0220-e1540332693803.jpg

Test fit in the car, it will be held down using three screw posts already in from the factory.

https://eipromb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/img_0208-e1540332723706.jpg

https://eipromb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/img_0211-e1540332789370.jpg

EDIT: Resizing images

[ccarrigan]

Anyone get noise free full range RCAs pre amp? I'm able to pull the analog connector out of the amp and tap to RCAs, but no matter what I do there's a large noise floor. Center pin in my cut off RCAs gets audio from any of the line out pins in the amp connector, but no matter where I connect the shield wire it doesn't eliminate the noise. Thanks!

[Smac770]

In reference to the posts a month ago about the 18 pin connector on the B&O amp. Cybernet99's J525 amp picture appears to be one without the optical connector. So it would be a non-MMI vehicle. In that case, the 18 pin connector does carry the signals from the head unit, unlike an MMI vehicle (which is what the pin out in the link is for). So for the non-MMI B&O amp (no optical connection), the 18 pin is:

1 - Microphone input 1 (+) from Microphone Unit in front roof module -R164- ( Inside Microphone -R74- )
2 - Microphone input 1 (ground shielding) from Microphone Unit in front roof module -R164- ( Inside Microphone -R74- )
4 - Rear right signal (+) from radio -R-
5 - Rear left signal (+) from radio
6 - Front right signal (+) from radio
7 - Front left signal (+) from radio
9 - CAN bus high (Infotainment)
10 - Microphone input 1 (-) from Microphone Unit in front roof module -R164- ( Inside Microphone -R74- )
13 - Rear right signal (-) from radio
14 - Rear left signal (-) from radio
15 - Front right signal (-) from radio
16 - Front left signal (-) from radio
18 - CAN bus low (Infotainment)

[ccarrigan]

I have the 32 pin one and only seem to get audio out of the last 8 or so (24-32 or something like that).

[Smac770]

edit - to be clear, this is the 32-pin connector layout for B&O amp (with 18-pin connector, with or without optical connector):

They all have the 18 and the 32. The 32 has the power connections and the speaker connections. The 32 pin assignments are the same MMI or non-MMI, unlike the 18 pin.

1 - Terminal 30
2 - Terminal 31
3 - Speaker, left rear (+)
4 - Speaker, right rear (+)
5 - Center Mid/High Range Speaker -R158- (+)
6 - Speaker, left front (+)
7 - Speaker, right front (+)
8 - Left Rear Midrange Speaker -R105- (+)
9 - Right Rear Midrange Speaker -R106- (+)
10 - Right Front Bass Speaker -R23- (+)
15 - Speaker, left rear (-)
16 - Speaker, right rear (-)
17 - Center Mid/High Range Speaker -R158- (-)
18 - Speaker, left front (-)
19 - Speaker, right front (-)
20 - Left Rear Midrange Speaker -R105- (-)
21 - Right Rear Midrange Speaker -R106- (-)
22 - Right Front Bass Speaker -R23- (-)
23 - Left Front Bass Speaker -R21- (+)
25 - Subwoofer in rear shelf -R157- (+)
28 - Left Front Bass Speaker -R21- (-)
30 - Subwoofer in rear shelf -R157- (-)

Adding the image since it's not a simple down and back pin arrangement.

90480

[ccarrigan]

Thanks for this Smac770. So maybe I'm looking at the installation wrong. Is the amplifier only for the subwoofer, and the head unit drives the rest? I'll test this in a few, but I only get sound out of the 23-32 pin connection options.

[ccarrigan]

Ok, it looks like that's possibly correct. I connected some pins in the 23-32 section to a speaker and got clean output, then used that to the MS8 but received "signal ok / level low". Turning up the volume and eq on the HU all the way didn't fix. Any ideas?

[cybernet99]

In reference to the posts a month ago about the 18 pin connector on the B&O amp. Cybernet99's J525 amp picture appears to be one without the optical connector. So it would be a non-MMI vehicle. In that case, the 18 pin connector does carry the signals from the head unit, unlike an MMI vehicle (which is what the pin out in the link is for). So for the non-MMI B&O amp (no optical connection), the 18 pin is:

1 - Microphone input 1 (+) from Microphone Unit in front roof module -R164- ( Inside Microphone -R74- )
2 - Microphone input 1 (ground shielding) from Microphone Unit in front roof module -R164- ( Inside Microphone -R74- )
4 - Rear right signal (+) from radio -R-
5 - Rear left signal (+) from radio
6 - Front right signal (+) from radio
7 - Front left signal (+) from radio
9 - CAN bus high (Infotainment)
10 - Microphone input 1 (-) from Microphone Unit in front roof module -R164- ( Inside Microphone -R74- )
13 - Rear right signal (-) from radio
14 - Rear left signal (-) from radio
15 - Front right signal (-) from radio
16 - Front left signal (-) from radio
18 - CAN bus low (Infotainment)

Thanks Smac770 for posting this up. Much appreciated!

[Smac770]

Thanks for this Smac770. So maybe I'm looking at the installation wrong. Is the amplifier only for the subwoofer, and the head unit drives the rest? I'll test this in a few, but I only get sound out of the 23-32 pin connection options.

Do you have the B&O system? My initial injection to the thread was to correct some information regarding the 18 pin connector on the non-MMI B&O amp. The follow up was regarding the 32 pin connector on the (MMI or non-MMI) B&O amp. If you have a non-B&O amp (no 18 pin connector), the 32-pin assignments are all different.

[ccarrigan]

I have no 18 pin connector, just the 32 pin connector.

[cybernet99]

Do you have the B&O system? My initial injection to the thread was to correct some information regarding the 18 pin connector on the non-MMI B&O amp. The follow up was regarding the 32 pin connector on the (MMI or non-MMI) B&O amp. If you have a non-B&O amp (no 18 pin connector), the 32-pin assignments are all different.

You were bang on, I've got the B&O system, but I am non-MMI.

[Slick_B8]

Installed the dayton rs75 dash speakers with @eipromb tweeter brackets and wow, what difference lol finishing up the door speakers tomorrow. But hell, if it sounds this good with just the dash speakers in, i can only imagine the doors. And i still have to wire up the sub and amp, aswell as the the speakers since theyre only running on the oem amp.

[Smac770]

I have no 18 pin connector, just the 32 pin connector.

Then it gets messier. For the non-B&O amp, there's whether you have the dual-port optical connection (MMI vehicle) or not (non-MMI vehicle). If there's only the one 32 pin connector on that face of the amp, then that would be no. If it's non-MMI, there's one pin out. If it's MMI, there's two possible pin outs, one for the basic four speaker sound system and one for the "standard" system with center channel and subwoofer.

Also, what are you trying to tap? The low voltage lines from the head unit to the amp, or the high voltage lines from the amp to the speakers? The former is only possible on a non-MMI amp (no optical connector).

[ccarrigan]

Then it gets messier. For the non-B&O amp, there's whether you have the dual-port optical connection (MMI vehicle) or not (non-MMI vehicle). If there's only the one 32 pin connector on that face of the amp, then that would be no. If it's non-MMI, there's one pin out. If it's MMI, there's two possible pin outs, one for the basic four speaker sound system and one for the "standard" system with center channel and subwoofer.

Also, what are you trying to tap? The low voltage lines from the head unit to the amp, or the high voltage lines from the amp to the speakers? The former is only possible on a non-MMI amp (no optical connector).

What I'm trying to do is setup a JBL MS8 DSP, so I need full range audio (either low level RCAs or high level speaker outputs). I don't have an optical connector (just one single 32 pin analog connection) so I was hoping to disconnect that from the Audi amp and use low voltage lines.

However, the only audio I can get out of that connector SEEMS to be high level. I can connect two pins to a speaker and get good output. If I connect that to RCAs, the sound is dirty with noise.

If you know of a different pinout to try I can do that. So far it's just 23-32 that get me any audio at all. If I take those as RCAs to an amp the amp goes in to protection so I'm assuming they aren't low level.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, thank you again for your help!

[Smac770]

For the basic amp with no optical and no 18 pin, the pin out in the repair manual for the B8.0 years is:

1 - Terminal 30
2 - Terminal 31
3 - Subwoofer in rear shelf -R157- (+)
4 - Speaker, left front (+)
5 - Speaker, right front (+)
6 - Speaker, left rear (+)
7 - Speaker, right rear (+)
8 - Center Mid/High Range Speaker -R158- (+)
13 - CAN bus high (Infotainment)
14 - CAN bus low (Infotainment)
15 - Subwoofer on rear shelf -R157- (-)
16 - Speaker, left front (-)
17 - Speaker, right front (-)
18 - Speaker, left rear (-)
19 - Speaker, right rear (-)
20 - Center Mid/High Range Speaker -R158- (-)
23 - Rear right signal (+) from the radio -R-
24 - Rear left signal (+) from radio
25 - Front right signal(+) from radio
26 - Front left signal (+) from the radio
28 - Rear right signal (-) from the radio
29 - Rear left signal (-) from the radio
30 - Front right signal (-) from radio
31 - Front left signal (-) from the radio

So the "line level" from the radio to the amp are in the 23-32 pin set, but I have no idea if they are standard or differential nor their voltage range. 12v/gnd are pins 1 & 2, and the speaker outputs are in the 3-22 pin set.

[Slick_B8]

Im having an issue. My speakers are popping when turning the car on. Current setup is 5 channel amp, dayton speakers all around and remote wire wired to the red box in the passenger trunk cubby. Im currently using @eipromb designed box and stock has been removed. Any ideas?

[Wagonmafia420]

Just installed an aftermarket sub and amp today mine is doing the same thing. I have an lc2i and I’m tapped into the factory sub wires. The lc2i gets current from the speaker wires and turns on my amp. It turns on every time I open the door and I get a little feed back on my sub a little pop. Don’t think there is anyway to get rid of it unless you find a spot in the vehicle that doesn’t get current until you start the vehicle.

[Slick_B8]

Just installed an aftermarket sub and amp today mine is doing the same thing. I have an lc2i and I’m tapped into the factory sub wires. The lc2i gets current from the speaker wires and turns on my amp. It turns on every time I open the door and I get a little feed back on my sub a little pop. Don’t think there is anyway to get rid of it unless you find a spot in the vehicle that doesn’t get current until you start the vehicle.
The fix for me brother was actually hooking up my remote out wire from my amp to the factory sub positive wire. Popping went away and no more issues as far as i can tell. I had previously had it plugged into the red box in the passenger trunk cubby. Also, make sure your grounds are good aswell, that can also cause popping at startup

[//AudiB]

Need help with connection location see image... http://oi64.tinypic.com/2unya69.jpg

[Kolbenringe]

Hey, does anyone have the wiring diagram for the factory, non-BO subwoofer for the avant that goes in the spare tire area?

Also, what's a good +12v turn-on terminal in the rear of the car that would work when the radio is turned on, even with the ignition off? I'm trying to get a spare tire in there, but have to remove the factory sub to do it, so want to relocate using a compact powered sub.

[AllLowd]

Does anybody know if there is a product out there like the idata link maestro that works with our vehicles, to keep the stock mmi functions, volume fade, time align, nav, voice prompt, etc., when updating the sound system? I have ran across a lot of DSP's that would seem to help with getting a flat signal, but you loose a lot of functions from the stock mmi id like to keep.

[the general]

Does anybody know if there is a product out there like the idata link maestro that works with our vehicles, to keep the stock mmi functions, volume fade, time align, nav, voice prompt, etc., when updating the sound system? I have ran across a lot of DSP's that would seem to help with getting a flat signal, but you loose a lot of functions from the stock mmi id like to keep.

Yup. Link for analog preouts. Also have a digital (colab with Audison) output version too.

http://mobridge.us/product/da2-analog-pre-amp-most/

[bestgio850]

I'm thinking of tapping into the preamp wires mentioned earlier in this thread for my subwoofer. I am aware that these preamp wires provide full range signal but what I would like to make sure still is that does tapping into those preamp wires also eliminates the bass roll off issue?
If I tapped into those preamp wires and started cranking up the volume would my sub still perform per volume level or is that not possible without some extra DSP?
Any help is greatly appreciated!

[A4x]

What is the bass roll off issue?

I would imagine that the pre-amp signals are not filtered or processed in any way. It is the stock amplifier that does the processing. But what do I know?

[bestgio850]

What is the bass roll off issue?

I would imagine that the pre-amp signals are not filtered or processed in any way. It is the stock amplifier that does the processing. But what do I know?

So most factory stereos when you start cranking up the volume really loud, the factory amplifier would begin to reduce the actual amount of bass coming out so it protects the crappy factory subwoofer.
So if you tapped into the subwoofer wire coming out of the factory amp, that additional subwoofer you installed also gets the bass reduced (that is of course if you haven't purchased the LC2i)

I was just curious if I could verify with anyone here to see if they also tapped into those pre-amp signals for their subs with 0 side effects.

[djthart]

Has anybody successfully installed a 3.5 inch speaker in the center speaker location? Building my system wanted a 2 way center for more clarity.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[Circuit]

Had a full system done by Simplicity in Sound. Full build photos here: https://imgur.com/a/A8fVmN3

https://i.imgur.com/8CZ6RDy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/j8sMBy0.jpg

- - - Updated - - -

Had a full system done by Simplicity in Sound. Full build photos here: https://imgur.com/a/A8fVmN3

https://i.imgur.com/8CZ6RDy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/j8sMBy0.jpg

[Aegix]

I’m making good progress on the installation of the front end speakers. This week I ran the speaker wires up to the front of the car, made plates to mount the AudioFrog GB25 midrange drivers in the dash and modified the factory B&O grilles to mount the AudioFrog grilles.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180908/0ead8d6744ed02f9a42a797ffc7cdee1.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180908/6eed9813c6b492037b8b99bd9e63526f.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180908/b9d86a9139d09a70be91f3fe66f7e28b.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180908/75aee9a4182c07c6880459a4ad34ec79.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180908/854160540d0265c3d0b615942705f0c5.jpg




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know I might not get an answer, but how difficult was it to run the dash wire speakers to the back of the car. Can you "easily" get wires up to the dashboard?

Thanks

[Kolbenringe]

Hey are there any upgrade kits with decent quality speakers that's more or less plug and play for an Avant with the 3G high? I am not ready for a full overhaul of the system, but want to start at good quality speaker. It's pretty shocking how bad the stereo in the car is, tbh.

[cybernet99]

Running wires from the back to the front of the car is pretty easy … Up to the dash for the mids was pretty simple.

Doors … whole other ball game … Getting additional dedicated 14ga speaker wire into the doors was a royal PITA! I ended up running the wires up each side of the car, probably an hour all in. So, not difficult at all. (taking trim off, fabric taping every 12" etc)

[cybernet99]

Hey are there any upgrade kits with decent quality speakers that's more or less plug and play for an Avant with the 3G high? I am not ready for a full overhaul of the system, but want to start at good quality speaker. It's pretty shocking how bad the stereo in the car is, tbh.

Changing out just speakers isn't that difficult, as long as you stay with the same size speakers and leverage the factory speaker wire … not too bad, can be easily done on a Saturday taking your time. If you read through this thread and the similar thread in the S4 forum, there are lots of options and detailed info from others as to which speaker fit well in the dash, and how to make adapters for the door speakers. (factory is a 8", most everything aftermarket is 6.5") Just watch your speaker depth.

[cybernet99]

I’m building an adapter to go from high level speaker outputs to RCA. I found the right “socket” so that the factory high level speaker output will plug and lock into this socket.

Problem is, it’s going to be a PITA to solder the RCA cabling to the back of the adapter.

Anyone have any ideas?

Ie. Something that I could solder to the end of the stranded wire from the RCA cable that would then tightly fit into each of the bits sticking out of the back of the adapter?

The bits are so close to each other that it will be difficult to do a good job soldering and then covering in heat shrinking or something so that they cannot short out against each other.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190824/dd7c9f3c184a2eecb0debce0212e0fd1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190824/34c189a3bd5e5311431054b862447aa7.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Aegix]

Running wires from the back to the front of the car is pretty easy … Up to the dash for the mids was pretty simple.

Doors … whole other ball game … Getting additional dedicated 14ga speaker wire into the doors was a royal PITA! I ended up running the wires up each side of the car, probably an hour all in. So, not difficult at all. (taking trim off, fabric taping every 12" etc)

I am happy to hear that, but how do you go about connecting to the speakers, do you only have to take off the knee trim under the steering wheel and the glove box, what exactly do you have to take off from the dashboard to have access to the speakers (I am not referring to the speakers grills)?
For the doors, I already did my research, and I am going to use male and female pins connectors, which can be simply put in the factory plugs.

As to your last question did you try going in the same direction, use pins for this and not soldering? For example here:
https://bjprace.se/en/electrical/connectors/pins/
Not sure what will work for you, though. You will have to figure that out.

[cybernet99]

To access the speakers in the dash, take the grille off from the top. The speakers need to be “flipped” to get them in and out. Once you figure that out, easy to get in and out.

For running the wiring I think I started it from above and fed it down into the dash from the top, and then pulled it through from below once I could grab it. Right side, super easy. Left side. Kinda pain to grab it. But once you have it, easy.

Thanks for the link to the pins. I ordered some wire ferrules today. If those don’t work, (will be here tomorrow), then I’ll order some of the pins.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chatchie]

Been reading through this thread but haven't found the answer to a few of my questions. I have a b8.5 allroad with B&O and nav.

Does anyone know the wattage being delivered to the factory sub? I read here that someone said 180 watts but that seems like a lot. If it is indeed 180w has anyone tried running an aftermarket sub on the factory B&O amp? 180w rms is quite a bit of power.

Also does anyone know the impedance of the factory sub ? I've read both 2 and 4ohm. Thanks so much.

[Traptalk]

If anyone is looking for a serious sound quality build I have 2 Focal subwoofers and 2 focal mono amps for sale from the K2 Power line.

Focal is a high end brand and the speakers and amps were hand made in France.

I’ve already sold both sets of components speakers and the 4 channel amp but these speakers have literally ruined concerts for me and I don’t want to add all the weight as I’m prepping to track mine.

Focal FPS 1500 amplifier x 2

https://www.focal-america.com/product/fps1500/

Focal 33kx 13” subwoofer x 2

https://www.focal-america.com/product/33-kx/


Dm for inquiries!

[waxxonMTL]

Who tried the ebay box? were they well-made ?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AUDI-A4-B8-AVANT-ESTATE-WAGON-STEALTH-SUB-SPEAKER-ENCLOSURE-BOX-SOUND-BASS-10/152922025336?hash=item239adced78:g:sZcAAOSwQwdaksz M

[Chatchie]

I used the other eBay box that goes on the driver side. Quality was excellent.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191019/1927fe579def5ecdd2dd0276de1441b5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191019/bbe4b7458e07953bada6cd41690274a0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191019/a573f7b6e0458dd45ca95b18e0589840.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191019/3750dc356ea5f10c5ac854ad7b425344.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[waxxonMTL]

very good to know!

[lowesthertz]

Does anyone know where I can find the two pin connectors (shown above) for hooking into the factory lines in the dash? I am not having luck finding them and know they got to be available...

By the way, this thread has been more helpful than any of the other threads I have coming me across. Maybe because there is so much no-BO content.

[lowesthertz]

Got the front end speakers in the mail this week, spent the weekend designing brackets and getting them installed.

Testing out the fitment of the brackets
https://eipromb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/img_1329.jpg
https://eipromb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/img_1348.jpg
https://eipromb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/img_1384.jpg

Wiring harnesses made:
https://eipromb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/img_1340.jpg

https://eipromb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/img_1338.jpg

Installed:
https://eipromb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/img_1363.jpg
https://eipromb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/img_1398.jpg
https://eipromb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/img_1399.jpg
https://eipromb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/img_1392.jpg
https://eipromb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/img_1396.jpg

The last post about the two pin connectors, I was referring to this post. These are the ones I am looking for.

[cybernet99]

Try https://www.mouser.ca/

From other posts do you have a part number? I’ve gotten a few of the Audi connectors through this site. Created a speaker level output to RCA level inputs to for my amps.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191101/f043478ed84a1d76ad78d68d74682a63.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lowesthertz]

Try https://www.mouser.ca/

From other posts do you have a part number? I’ve gotten a few of the Audi connectors through this site. Created a speaker level output to RCA level inputs to for my amps.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191101/f043478ed84a1d76ad78d68d74682a63.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So far I have only been able to find the mating connector. Part number: 4B0971832

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PIN-Connector-Plug-Pigtail-HARNESS-4B0971832-for-VW-AUDI-Skoda-Seat-/162420526207

I will take a look at this sight and see if I can find it, thank you!

[lowesthertz]

So far I have only been able to find the mating connector. Part number: 4B0971832

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PIN-Connector-Plug-Pigtail-HARNESS-4B0971832-for-VW-AUDI-Skoda-Seat-/162420526207

I will take a look at this sight and see if I can find it, thank you!

For anyone wondering, part number is 4E0 972 575 and can be purchased at ECS or if you can wait, Aliexpress much cheaper.

[Analogphotog]

I think I have read through nearly this entire thread. So much good info here. Hopefully I can get a little help before I start putting some stuff together for my B8.5 S5.

If I go the seemingly tried and true Dayton & Vifa route for center, tweeters, doors, rears... What adapters do I need for each? Is there something on the market that will work for all, or do some of them have to be diy’d?

Also, for the doors and rear sides, are the Dayton RS150 and Vifa tweeters still the way to go if I decide to replace those as well?

Thanks in advance.

[Analogphotog]

One other quick question...

What’s the impedance on the stock Audi Sound System (non B&O) subwoofer on a b8.5 S5?

[Chatchie]

I'm 99.9% sure its 6 ohm for a B8.5 B&O sub. I should have taken a picture when I ripped mine out.

[Spawne32]

Does anyone have the speaker wiring diagram for B8 symphony? Trying to figure out positive and negatives on the rear mid bass speakers.

[A4x]

Does anyone have the speaker wiring diagram for B8 symphony? Trying to figure out positive and negatives on the rear mid bass speakers.

Amp connector:

https://i.gyazo.com/9680797a34bab0373b7eaf7156745459.png

High level signal wires:

https://i.gyazo.com/828c1802ca12fc45f56c3a5c26835e97.png

Low level signal wires:

https://i.gyazo.com/ced9d3cd4ec597892e6b33f25c3f719e.png

[Spawne32]

strange i have brown/blue and red/blue on the rear left mid bass

[A4x]

Yea the colors in my diagrams may not be accurate. I think the pin position in the connector is the way to go. Verify your colors there.

[dataworx]

I've been through this entire thread and learned a lot, thanks all. I have a 2009 A4 B8 sedan with the non B&O system. The subwoofer/bass speaker (the one with the little pimple magnet) in the rear parcel shelf is making bad noises so I unplugged it at the speaker and tested with a separate bass enclosure to verify that it is indeed the speaker that is faulty, and not the amp or head unit. The test unit, with an 8" driver, works fine but with a reduced volume.

The test unit speaker is rated at 4 ohm nominal, so I suspect that the stock speaker has a rating of 2 ohms, which would probably account for the difference in volume/output.

I've checked many, many sources but cannot find a definitive answer. Can someone here confirm the nominal impedance of the stock driver? I just want to replace the stock unit with something equivalent.

[cybernet99]

I've been through this entire thread and learned a lot, thanks all. I have a 2009 A4 B8 sedan with the non B&O system. The subwoofer/bass speaker (the one with the little pimple magnet) in the rear parcel shelf is making bad noises so I unplugged it at the speaker and tested with a separate bass enclosure to verify that it is indeed the speaker that is faulty, and not the amp or head unit. The test unit, with an 8" driver, works fine but with a reduced volume.

The test unit speaker is rated at 4 ohm nominal, so I suspect that the stock speaker has a rating of 2 ohms, which would probably account for the difference in volume/output.

I've checked many, many sources but cannot find a definitive answer. Can someone here confirm the nominal impedance of the stock driver? I just want to replace the stock unit with something equivalent.

I've got the B&O, non-MMI, but my sub is 8 ohm.

[dataworx]

The stock speaker is still working, although it makes a really bad crackling noise. I'll get a multimeter onto it and see what impedance I get.

Is there anything else, barring an impedance mismatch, that would lead to a significant reduction in volume from the stock speaker to the test speaker?

[Smac770]

multimeter will just give you a DC resistance value. impedance is resistance at an AC value, and would vary with frequency. A multimeter will not do that AC frequency sweep.

Is the other speaker the same kind of speaker? If not, it could simply be a much lower sensitivity (dB output per watt of input as measured at 1 meter). 3dB = 10x power, so if one was 84dB/W@1m, it would take 10x the power to sound as loud as one that is 87dB/W@1m. So the impedance will change the effective power at the speaker coil and impact the stability of the amp, but the speaker sensitivity will make far more impact on the actual output volume.

Check the part number against yours, but this thing seems pretty cheap to replace (with stock), https://www.genuineaudiparts.com/oem-parts/audi-pkg-tray-speaker-8t0035412 (8T0 035 412 D seems to be the B&O sedan sub). If you are looking to go aftermarket, then you should add aftermarket amplification for it too and so the original impedance is not really a concern.

[dataworx]

Thanks @Smac770, your explanation of the sensitivity of the different speakers makes perfect sense. The test speaker is entirely different and is presumably not as sensitive as the stock speaker. I don't want to introduce another amplifier since that will just complicate matters, so I'll do some foraging at the local scrap merchants.

[Smac770]

If you have a computer with REW (free), you might be able to get a reasonable impedance sweep using a method such as this: http://audiojudgement.com/loudspeaker-impedance-measurement/

When the amp in my home sub went out, I wanted to get a replacement amp but wanted to know the impedance curve of the sub in the box first. So looked into some of these solutions to a multi-hundred dollar test tool. Never actually implemented a solution since things pushed my eventual resolution in a different direction. There's a number of various web pages on measuring impedance with REW out there. I would think you might even be able to implement the solution in-car if you have an AUX input to run the computer into.

[dataworx]

That's a brilliant link. I have REW on one of my laptops but have never used it. I do have an AUX input in the car so this will be a great test to run.

I also put my meter onto the stock speaker a little earlier - the reading averages out at 0.8 ohms so I can't even guess if it's a nominal 2 ohm speaker or whether the coil is damaged....

[b85er]

Hi All, I've tried to search through this thread and on the forums but there seems to be so many different configurations it's quite confusing.

I just purchased a 2013 A4 with HN+ MMI, non-B&O, "Audi concert with premium sound". The stock system has a sub and I assume it has door tweeters as there is a speaker grill for them. Does anyone have the correct pinout for this setup?

The stock audio sounds better than I expected it to, but there is definitely room for improvement. Im looking for a simple, easy plug and play speaker upgrade. In the long run im potentially going to add an amp and sub, and maybe an amp for the speakers as well once I figure out what kind of setup this car has.

I have attached a picture of the amp and door speaker grill.

Thanks

[Smac770]

You have a 2013 US A4, which means you have:
either a) the Concert head unit and no navigation (and therefore no MMI) or b) MMI 3G+ and navigation
either a) the standard 10 speaker sound system or b) the 14 speaker B&O sound system

As you said, you do not have B&O, so you have only two speakers at each corner, not three as B&O has. So those "grills" at the side mirrors are not speakers, they are just covers. The treble speaker for the standard sound system at the front corners is in the corners of the dash under the windshield.

You say you have "concert" but then you say you have MMI and navigation. The radio unit in the trunk area would suggest you have MMI. MMI 3G, when paired with the standard sound system, did not use a separate amp unit. Thus why you see so much wiring to the "radio".

You have a an Audi and you want to start getting into playing with it, I suggest you pay for a day at erwin.audiusa.com and grab the repair manual and other document PDFs relevant to your car. Besides the wiring diagram and the communications systems repair manual that will provide all the details regarding the sound electronics, you'll also pick up other docs like the body interior and body exterior that would be useful trying to take parts of the car apart without breaking stuff as you change things around.

[b85er]

You have a 2013 US A4, which means you have:
either a) the Concert head unit and no navigation (and therefore no MMI) or b) MMI 3G+ and navigation
either a) the standard 10 speaker sound system or b) the 14 speaker B&O sound system

As you said, you do not have B&O, so you have only two speakers at each corner, not three as B&O has. So those "grills" at the side mirrors are not speakers, they are just covers. The treble speaker for the standard sound system at the front corners is in the corners of the dash under the windshield.

You say you have "concert" but then you say you have MMI and navigation. The radio unit in the trunk area would suggest you have MMI. MMI 3G, when paired with the standard sound system, did not use a separate amp unit. Thus why you see so much wiring to the "radio".

You have a an Audi and you want to start getting into playing with it, I suggest you pay for a day at erwin.audiusa.com and grab the repair manual and other document PDFs relevant to your car. Besides the wiring diagram and the communications systems repair manual that will provide all the details regarding the sound electronics, you'll also pick up other docs like the body interior and body exterior that would be useful trying to take parts of the car apart without breaking stuff as you change things around.

Hi Smac770, I appreciate the response. MMI Hnav+ + 10 speaker setup sounds right. The car sticker stated "Audi concert with premium sound" so that's why I included it. Thanks for the suggestion, that looks to be a good resource, definitely going to download all of the repair manuals and try to understand this car better :) I'll do more research and follow up once Its time to do some speaker swaps.

Thanks again!

[Smac770]

You probably have a Premium Plus, where the standard equipment included "concert radio", but then have the MMI Navigation plus package, which replaces that with the MMI system and adds navigation, Bluetooth streaming, HD radio, etc.

[cybernet99]

Almost ready to wrap my sub box. I put what will hopefully be my last few layers of fiberglass mat onto the ends to seal it up well and make it super strong.

Now I’ll need to finish it and make it nice and smooth so that it is ready to wrap in stretchy black vinyl.

It fits flush like a glove to the rear parcel tray and side panels. Next winter (Or this summer if Covid-19 quarantines continue on much longer ...) I will build new side panels out of fiberglass and wrap them in vinyl, then everything will be completely new in the trunk area and show ready.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200419/3408c95cff10dc78b6052453383a8501.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200419/336a6c10afedea96159cd76401e9c779.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200419/f1a4389e570f43a8a09d49638f1c9f54.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200419/458611b2fafb2439efb4e03c491397d3.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200419/b6df1c0b014f37bf25b81812904e79d0.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200419/c577826915dcb116157ee08afce3e4be.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200419/a6ea07c8d3055bce7af1e79f782e63d8.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200419/f143d972dcb132b158155f195712a567.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200419/495746278c06f5e133cfcbfbb918be6f.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200419/f8107d52821ce352c8948b3ff6fa0364.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200419/16e43eeb0851c16655ebfcb0868b9c95.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200419/33cac40f26f31acd5deba8290bd8d6fa.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ColdComfort]

Hey all,

I'm trying to orient myself here as I start to plan upgrades to the sound system in my 2015 premium+ with MMI 3g+ (high).

First, to make sure that I understand what I'm working with, I believe the US B8.5s came with 3 different sound packages:


Audi Concert - the entry level, holds one disc and doesn't have SD card?
Audi Symphony - exact speakers / wiring / amp as Concert, except has 6 disc changer and SD card slots
B&O - the top tier offering, unique wiring / speakers / amp


I believe I have the 2nd, as I have 2 SD card slots. I honestly haven't checked the disc capacity as I'm usually connected via BT. But, since I 100% don't have B&O, if I'm correct about concert and symphony sharing internals, it doesn't matter.

So, is there a wiring diagram floating around for this setup? There are a *lot* of speaker grilles in my vehicle, are there really speakers under all these grilles?.. the doors have 1 each, the front A frames have tweeter grilles, and the top dash has the center channel and two more grilles, one in each corner of the windshield. The rear of the vehicle has some more, probably 2 per side (one per door, and two on the deck below the rear glass).

My goals for the upgrade are to keep the MMI 3g+ radio functionality, including DSP, and keep the interior of the car looking 100% stock. I want to replace the stock amp with one (or two) to drive active front crossovers and (I think) a 10" sub in the hidden compartment in the trunk, similar to what a user posted in the early few pages of this thread.

Does the stock amp only drive the stock sub, or is it also driving the speakers in the cabin?

Is there a fitment list somewhere for the various internal speakers, i.e. "max size for front doors is A x B x C inches"?

[Smac770]

No, US B8.x had the Concert front end with the standard sound system (6-ch amp and 10 speakers). Optional was the B&O sound system (10-ch amp and 14-speakers). If you got navigation, then you got MMI High with Navigation Plus (2G for 2009, 3G for 2010-2012, 3G+ for 2013-2016). This was a replacement for the Concert front end. There's a lot more details to the variations, but it's basically for US B8.5 A4: [Concert or MMI 3G+ front end] and [standard or B&O sound system]. There is far more variation of options for non-US products, such as the Chorus and Symphony front ends, Navigation Basic, etc, etc.

If you have MMI 3G+ and the standard sound system, the 6-ch amp is built into the radio unit in the left rear. So you will not see a separate J525 at the top of the component stack like someone with MMI and B&O, or someone with MMI 2G.

The front door side mirror mounts either have a round real grill with a ring that says B&O, or it's just a textured cover with nothing actually in it.

I've laid out a lot of this in various threads, but it all comes from the repair manual - communications and wiring diagram documents from erwin.audiusa.com. If you don't have all the various docs for your car from there, you should pay for a day and grab all the stuff relevant to your car, save it as PDFs. Because if you're going to go around messing with the various component locations, how to dismantle the interior, noted in the repair manual - body interior, would be good to know, etc.

[Smac770]

And to the details of the speaker location dimensions, they are not in the Audi documents. That's best found in the various "sound system retrofit" threads here and elsewhere.

[cybernet99]

It’s been a long haul but finally the box is fully fitted and sealed, ready to wrap in black vinyl with a JL Audio 12W6v3-D4 12” sub. It fits like a glove and tight to the front, sides and rear. A nice one-off for the Audi B8 platform. The head unit for this system will be an RSNAV S2 12.3" running Android 9.0. I'm really looking forward to hearing how it sounds once it is all put together.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200427/61b3c4c6cc44feb07b2d25ba03c07666.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200427/4cd7660f1263275d0aa32f22f7fa54ca.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200427/b1e74396c949f3c5a8ac85aff8bec87f.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200427/8b521a11341b53616da5d9cdd336762e.jpg

The amp tray sits on top of the rear parcel tray and actually bolts into the sub box and sandwiches the parcel tray inbetween, pulling the sub box nice and tight into place.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200427/6750458666d547e286bfa784077cdc46.jpg

[vsaudi]

It’s been a long haul but finally the box is fully fitted and sealed, ready to wrap in black vinyl with a JL Audio 12W6v3-D4 12” sub. It fits like a glove and tight to the front, sides and rear. A nice one-off for the Audi B8 platform. The head unit for this system will be an RSNAV S2 12.3" running Android 9.0. I'm really looking forward to hearing how it sounds once it is all put together.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200427/61b3c4c6cc44feb07b2d25ba03c07666.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200427/4cd7660f1263275d0aa32f22f7fa54ca.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200427/b1e74396c949f3c5a8ac85aff8bec87f.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200427/8b521a11341b53616da5d9cdd336762e.jpg

The amp tray sits on top of the rear parcel tray and actually bolts into the sub box and sandwiches the parcel tray inbetween, pulling the sub box nice and tight into place.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200427/6750458666d547e286bfa784077cdc46.jpg

Looks great


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Spawne32]

Finally after 2 years, I put this thing in. It's got some bass, its not ideal, and you can tell its about 10-20 watts short on power to really be effective at low volumes. But with the fader adjusted slightly to the rear and the sound at an acceptable volume, its got some bump. I feel like where the car is missing the most is some lower/mid range speakers in the doors. The one's I put in don't seem to be giving me what I was looking for. The parts express 6.5's are 30 watt RMS which I think may be a little high for the door speakers, or they just don't have the range at 4ohm. I am running this sub at 2ohm and seems to be working fine. Little concerned about overheating the amp if I start running other 2ohm speakers.

https://i.imgur.com/EXoyV3U.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8ItQT4H.jpg

[Spawne32]

You have a 2013 US A4, which means you have:
either a) the Concert head unit and no navigation (and therefore no MMI) or b) MMI 3G+ and navigation
either a) the standard 10 speaker sound system or b) the 14 speaker B&O sound system

As you said, you do not have B&O, so you have only two speakers at each corner, not three as B&O has. So those "grills" at the side mirrors are not speakers, they are just covers. The treble speaker for the standard sound system at the front corners is in the corners of the dash under the windshield.

You say you have "concert" but then you say you have MMI and navigation. The radio unit in the trunk area would suggest you have MMI. MMI 3G, when paired with the standard sound system, did not use a separate amp unit. Thus why you see so much wiring to the "radio".

You have a an Audi and you want to start getting into playing with it, I suggest you pay for a day at erwin.audiusa.com and grab the repair manual and other document PDFs relevant to your car. Besides the wiring diagram and the communications systems repair manual that will provide all the details regarding the sound electronics, you'll also pick up other docs like the body interior and body exterior that would be useful trying to take parts of the car apart without breaking stuff as you change things around.

Since you are a wealth of information around here, I went and put my ears up to my door sails and was like...god damnit. Lol So question for you, is there a different between Concert and Symphony, and do you think we need to put second order crossovers in our aftermarket speakers when we upgrade the stock speakers without putting an amp, or is the "audio processor/amp" in the trunk doing that for us already?

[Smac770]

At it's basis:
Concert = 1-disc in-dash CD player
Symphony = 6-disc in-dash CD player

The rest is the same. US B8 A4 came with Concert if you didn't have navigation (in which case it had MMI High, a 6-disc in-dash CD player for MMI 2G or a 1-disc in-dash DVD player for MMI 3G), according to the order guides. Symphony was only present in US for 2009 it seems, optional on Premium and standard on Premium Plus.

As for passive crossovers on the speaker wires, probably depends on what you're trying to do and whether you have the standard 6-channel or B&O 10-channel amp. The standard amp runs a full range signal to the four corners, using a simple cap on the tweeter to provide a probably single order high pass filter to protect the tweeter. I doubt there is any low pass on the door speaker. Whether or not the amp implements a high pass filter to block sub signals from the corners, again, not tested it so don't know.

We can guess the sub channel is low pass filtered in the amp, but at what frequency or slope I've not tested. I don't have a reason to believe the filter would be passive and in the sub enclosure. But I've not tested for that scenario.

As for the 10-channel B&O amp, it runs a separate output to the door midbass speaker at each corner. Not tested the output to see if it's filtered. The midrange in the dash and the tweeter in the sail panel are then run by another channel. So I suspect it would have a high pass in the amp to protect the midrange, but I doubt the midrange has any filter on it to remove treble. The tweeter has a simple cap on it, same as the standard system. So that's the four extra channels on the B&O, the four door midbass drivers.

If you replace the stock speakers, the one note to make is the high-pass filter to protect the tweeter is definitely on the tweeter. So make sure you have some kind of in-line passive filter protecting whatever replacement tweeter you put in. I would expect the rest of the speakers (midranges/center) are filtered in the amp to remove low frequency, if it was being done correctly. But check the speaker, if there is going to be a cap for a high-pass filter that you need to "replace", it'll be on the speaker itself, not in the wiring harness.

[Spawne32]

All my OEM speakers are gone with the exception of the two tweeters in the rear doors now. The 3 front speakers are Dayton Audio RS75-4 and they are 15 watt full range drivers with a range of 170 to 20,000 Hz, so I am not entirely sure if they would benefit from a 170hz high pass filter or not. Not a sound junkie at all. My concern is that if I low pass the mid bass tweeters in the lower doors (50 to 6,000Hz) is that I am going to kill their output. I have heard that 2nd order passive crossovers reduce the effective RMS watts to the speaker, and since I am already working with the non B&O amp here, how that will effect the sound quality. At this point everything seems to operate the way I want it, everything is insanely clearer and louder when the headunit isnt operating on the FM radio alone, so I can only assume thats the reason I couldn't properly gauge how effective the new speakers were going to be.

[Smac770]

Spawne32, an interim response.

RS75-4, http://www.daytonaudio.com/product/115/rs75-4-3-reference-full-range-driver-4-ohm, I notice they spec the sensitivity as @2.83V rather than @1W. 2.83V = 1W only at 8Ω. On a 4Ω speaker, that's actually 2W (half the impedance so double the current, so double the power). Which is why the sensitivity is so much higher than the 8Ω version of the speaker. It's not exactly +3dB, but as you can see from the various other specs, there's always more detail to the difference between two same speakers but of different impedance. But 85.2dB@2W@1m, 15Wrms means only 94dB@1m [7.5x the power, so base dB + 10*log(7.5)]. So they are not particularly loud speakers, and don't handle much power to push the volume either. Not good or bad, just a stat.

Their Vd is only 1.3cc (Volume displacement, a product of the surface area and excursion/travel, Xmax). The only way you're hearing any 170Hz out of those is if you're using them as headphones.

You know the signal to the corners is full range, possibly the sub range is filtered out since the original system is designed with an amp. That would make the most sense to minimize energy waste on the main channels. The standard sound system amp is 180w total (3x40 + 3x20W:
40w to each front corner
20w to the center channel
20w to each rear corner
40w to the subwoofer
Are those peak or rms? I'm going to guess rms. But no, there's no info I have to insist one way or the other on that. I also don't know the nominal impedance of the standard sound system speakers. Remember back to the first paragraph, 2.83V is 1W, but only for an 8Ω speaker. So the amp produces 40w but into what factory Ω. Halving or doubling the Ω does not mean you'll get double or half the power (because the voltage will be unchanged typically) because of other factors.

40w to each front corner. So let's look at that. And note, I don't know what you put in the doors, so I'm just going to go with 4Ω for simplicity. If the amp produces a 20w signal at 1kHz, and both the RS75 and the door speaker are both 4Ω at 1kHz, half the power will go to each. But will they sound the same? Is the sensitivity the same? Is the distance from the driver to your ear the same. And the likelihood of the impedance being the same between those two different drivers is unlikely. But another consideration is now you have two points of origin for a given frequency wave. When those two waves meet, will it be constructive or destructive interference, and to what level? Will it cause a drop out in the perceived volume at that frequency at your ear's location (think home subwoofer and how the bass goes in and out as you move around and stand up and sit down, in that instance the other wave source are the wall/ceiling/floor reflections).

You might consider a first order 2-way crossover at 1kHz to start, see what it does for you. It'll be down 12dB at 250Hz for the little 3" and down 12dB at 4000Hz for the 6.5". It should not make a too noticeable volume level impact; if it does something was matched wrong. But hard to say without RTAs of the two drivers in their installed positions. If the little 3" can keep up further down the frequency band, you'll likely get better presentation as the driver is located up high.

What I would do is take an RTA of just the 3" drivers playing pink noise and see at what point they drop out. That's the point where you want to roll in the door drivers to fill the low end. And the point where why bother sending those lower frequencies to the 3". And no need to send higher frequencies to the door driver, you're using it for fill below the 3"'s ability, not to compete with the 3". Unless you're sure it's output is creating constructive interference. But that's where you'd RTA the 3" alone and both playing and see how it looks, and how it sounds.

[Smac770]

Damn it, forgot to finish the comment on the power stuff. So crossovers or filters, how do they block the signal from playing, by creating a wall of increasing impedance to the point that the voltage pushes almost no current across. So if you have a high pass filter cap on the tweeter, then it looks like super high impedance to the amp channel and all the say 200Hz power is going to go the other way, to the woofer. So right now, with both speakers going at it, you're splitting the power for a large part of the frequency band between them. Once they are filtered, all the amp energy in the highs and lows will go to respective driver, and then it's down to matching the outputs of the two speakers in the overlap.

So you might lose some power in the components, but you might regain some power to the woofer that it can actually produce real volume with. It's really not much of a power saver on the high end, there's so little power necessary to make high frequency SPL. You might find this post interesting: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/50073-division-of-power-between-woofer-and-tweeter?p=730595#post730595

Also, on crossovers, this blog seems informative: https://speakermakersjourney.blogspot.com/2016/02/crossover-basics.html

[Smac770]

Ok, not sure why I got that idea in my head. If you have a high impedance on one driver at a particular frequency, it's not going to impact the impedance on the other driver, and so the current and therefore wattage on the other driver will be unchanged. What will be changed is the amp won't bother making as much power in total at that frequency, so it won't be wasting power on driving a speaker that's not going to make any reasonable SPL output. Which would mean you could turn the amp up more, except your speakers are already bound below the amp's output capability anyway. So yeah, in your instance, it's about using a filter, if necessary, to control any distortion noise at the ends of the drivers' capabilities and address any interference imbalances that might be occurring between the two drivers.

[Spawne32]

Ok that was alot to take in, let me clear up what I actually did since apparently I did not fully understand the factory system when trying to match the speakers properly. I did put the three RS75-4 in the dash speakers per this threads recommendation but I did not install the crossovers. They probably do sound bright but my hearing is going and I am not sure I can actually perceive that except at high volumes. Putting crossovers in seems to be easy enough on those but the mistake I seem to have made is on the mid bass speakers on the door. The 6.5" generic polycone mid bass woofers I put in don't seem to be reproducing an entire range of frequencies, despite the fact that they are working. Those are https://www.parts-express.com/6-1-2-poly-cone-midbass-woofer-4-ohm--299-609 and t hey have a frequency response of 50 to 6,000 Hz and sensitivity 88.3 dB 2.83V/1m. There is an entire RANGE of what seems like mid bass that I am missing entirely that even I can audibly hear, but friends can hear way more than I can. We reproduced this today when some songs where you can hear entire ranges of notes missing.

I know that the front door speakers are NOT 6.5" speakers from the factory, which left me questioning my choice to put 6.5" in the door. I believe they are 7.5 or 8" or something that were originally there. Is this missing frequency range related to distortion or is it from the poor choice in speakers in the doors? Are they not properly matched to the dash speakers?

[Spawne32]

So you are saying for the RS75 use a 1khz high pass filter, if I am understanding you correctly? You mentioned 2 way, you mean a band pass?

[A4x]

So you are saying for the RS75 use a 1khz high pass filter, if I am understanding you correctly? You mentioned 2 way, you mean a band pass?

The stock dash tweeters use a 1st order high pass @ 4000 Hz. You might try the same with the RS75, unless you are trying to compensate for your door woofers.

The stock door woofer does not have any crossover on it. It rolls off naturally around 4000 Hz where the tweeter then takes over. However the Dayton is much better suited to play in the range above 1000 Hz than the large door woofer. You could try low passing the woofer around 800-1000 Hz and high passing the Dayton above that.

Your issue likely stems from the fact that the RS75 you installed have no crossover, so they are overlapping with the door woofers. For example, between about 200 and 4000 Hz, both your door woofer and RS75 are trying to play. The impedance is reduced because you have the 2 drivers in parallel, so they are drawing double the power from your amp and it is likely being overworked. The stock amp is trash. Try installing a capacitor on the RS75 to high pass them and maybe that will help out your door woofer to get more power in the mid-range. You can snip the stock cap off the tweeters. It just goes in series on the + wire.

If you want to measure your system or individual speakers, you could pick up one of these for cheap and use Room EQ Wizard to measure RTA curves. Very easy. This will tell you exactly what your door woofers are playing, and you can try to fit crossovers from there.
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-imm-6-calibrated-measurement-microphone-for-tablets-iphone-ipad-and-android--390-810

My experience with passive crossovers is that you will never be satisfied and will keep tweaking the frequency range (which means buying more components and swapping them out) in an endless search for better sound which you will never get from the stock amp, crossovers, and stock EQ.

The final solution is to get an aftermarket amp and a DSP. What are you waiting for? Haha. It's really not that hard to install. The mini DSP 4 looks good, as well as a budget offering from Dayton (I forget the model). Next level would be Audison, Hertz, etc.

[Spawne32]

The final solution is to get an aftermarket amp and a DSP. What are you waiting for? Haha. It's really not that hard to install. The mini DSP 4 looks good, as well as on offering from Dayton. Next level would be Audison

lol I know but that money can be better spent on go fast parts, you can't hear the mid range loss at 6000rpm. [>_<] My whole thing is just not dumping a ton of money into this car (clearly lying to myself) and the way I have always seen it, is if I can just improve the quality of the speakers a little, you can make 180 watts sound decent enough. Problem is I only understand the basics, and not the math, this is why I do legal work and not physics. Like I understand frequencies, sensitivity, how crossovers work, but RTA curves and identifying a potential problem between components is outside of my realm of expertise. I get what you are saying though, the way you worded it made sense, I sat here for 3 hours trying to comprehend what Smac said. lol I'll give the 4000hz high pass filters a try since they are easy enough to do. I had not realized that they would draw power from the mids in that frequency range without the filter, I always assumed the power being supplied was equal no matter what. Now should I high pass the center channel speaker as well?

[A4x]

No, the center speaker runs on it's own dedicated channel from the amp, no need to crossover. I suspect the amp does have some built in filtering, so whatever range it was sending to the stock 2" speaker is suitable for the RS75 as well.

[Spawne32]

No, the center speaker runs on it's own dedicated channel from the amp, no need to crossover. I suspect the amp does have some built in filtering, so whatever range it was sending to the stock 2" speaker is suitable for the RS75 as well.

Now would you use a standard electrolytic capacitor or something more premium, because the way I understand it electrolytic capacitors suck for audio.

[A4x]

I've never done a side by side comparison. The stock tweeter uses the standard electrolytic (cheap AF) capacitor and sounded fine. I doubt you would notice a difference. The other caps are much larger in size which kind of sucks for hiding in the dash and behind door panels.

[Spawne32]

I've never done a side by side comparison. The stock tweeter uses the standard electrolytic (cheap AF) capacitor and sounded fine. I doubt you would notice a difference. The other caps are much larger in size which kind of sucks for hiding in the dash and behind door panels.

Guess I'll buy two of both since they are cheap enough, it was like 11 bucks, and ill see what I can get in there. I gotta pick up some push lock connectors to cus I hard wired them to the harness because I didn't have any at the time.

[Smac770]

Here's more time kill posting for you. :-P

To me, crossover is a single input, multiple output device. A filter on a speaker is not a crossover. A filter does not have two outputs that crossover at a particular point. It just filters out stuff. As for "2-way" vs. bandpass, 2-way is a standard crossover that has a high and a low output. The sound crosses over from one speaker to the other at the crossover point.

178849

At it's simplest form, a high-pass filter is just a capacitor in series with the speaker. Why put a filter on the tweeter but not the woofer? Goes back to that chart in the parts-express post I linked. There's much more electrical power in the lower frequencies to produce a human ear approved sound balance. The tweeter might not be able to make any actual SPL output in the those low frequencies, but if you send it, it has to deal with it. Ie, the heat. A tweeter is small so it can be good at fast movement. Which means it cannot sink a bunch of electrical power in its voice coil, heat because we don't have superconductors yet. How do you solve this? You put up a roadblock to any low frequency energy trying to come that way. The capacitor.

You've replaced the tweeter with a large 3" full range driver. It has much less need for protection from higher power levels.

But now you have two speakers overlapping each other, by a good amount. From 200-6000Hz? One is pointed right at the window to bounce right into your face, the other is playing sideways down at your feet. Your ear is going to be receiving two very different reproductions of the sound from 200-6000, will they match, will the have boosted or nullifying interference. It adds a lot of complications to evaluate.

I still think your best bet is to disconnect the door woofers. Then get an RTA setup with some pink noise and see what your RS75s are actually delivering to your ear. There's going to be a point where the bass end rolls off relative to the mid and high output. That's the point where you'd consider putting a high-pass filter on the RS75. No reason to bother the RS75 with efforts that don't produce output. Then that's the same point you'd put a low-pass filter on the door woofer. If the RS75 sounds good at the sound it is making, don't muddy it with extra content from another source, which may or may not have the same tonal balance, etc.

But then you need to disconnect or suppress the RS75s and get an RTA of your door woofers. Just because they are bigger (yes, the OEM is 8" but shallow, don't immediately write off a 6.5" just because it's not 8", ... [:D]) doesn't mean they are getting the job done in the frequency range desired. And maybe not to the SPL level that you're trying to match to your RS75s. Without some measurements of isolated components, you're left guessing what's going on and how to correct it.


Once you have an RTA graph of the woofer and of the RS75, you'll know more about how they can merge together and a good crossover point to try. Of course, none of this talks about phase or group delay, etc. But one thing at a time, right? [wrench]

[Spawne32]

Well, no time like the present to learn a new skill I guess while in quarantine. lol So can this "Dayton Audio iMM-6 Calibrated Measurement Microphone for Tablets iPhone iPad and Android" device do what I need without the need for sophisticated tools and such? Or is it cheaper to drive to atlanta and just have you listen to it? lol

[Smac770]

Dude, I'm old. And the Kenwood 6x9s on the rear deck of the '76 Cutlass in high school made sure I'll never be accused of having critical hearing.

That mic is intended for use with a phone/tablet device with a TRRS port, and so using some app that runs on iOS or Android. For iOS, AudioTools looks like a pretty complete toolset, https://studiosixdigital.com/. And seems to be on sale currently, https://studiosixdigital.com/audiotools-modules-2/black-friday-2019.html

For Android, https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.julian.apps.AudioTool&hl=en_US is only $8 and apparently it can make use of the calibration file which that mic comes with. online manual - https://sites.google.com/site/bofinit/audiotool

I myself would go with Room EQ Wizard (REW) on a PC, and as such would look to the USB version of that mic, https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-umm-6-usb-measurement-microphone--390-808 Though one could still just use a break out cable to connect the iMM mic to the mic port on a PC.

But for $16 for the mic and $8 or $10 for the app? That will give you plenty of information to start with.

[Spawne32]

lol As I sit here typing all this stuff my tinnitus has been bothering me something awful over the past week, so I constantly hear a buzzing in my left ear that makes me think I am hearing sounds out of the speakers that aren't really there. Then there is the fact that I can't hear anything over 10.5khz.

[cybernet99]

Dude, I'm old. And the Kenwood 6x9s on the rear deck of the '76 Cutlass in high school made sure I'll never be accused of having critical hearing.

That mic is intended for use with a phone/tablet device with a TRRS port, and so using some app that runs on iOS or Android. For iOS, AudioTools looks like a pretty complete toolset, https://studiosixdigital.com/. And seems to be on sale currently, https://studiosixdigital.com/audiotools-modules-2/black-friday-2019.html

For Android, https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.julian.apps.AudioTool&hl=en_US is only $8 and apparently it can make use of the calibration file which that mic comes with. online manual - https://sites.google.com/site/bofinit/audiotool

I myself would go with Room EQ Wizard (REW) on a PC, and as such would look to the USB version of that mic, https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-umm-6-usb-measurement-microphone--390-808 Though one could still just use a break out cable to connect the iMM mic to the mic port on a PC.

But for $16 for the mic and $8 or $10 for the app? That will give you plenty of information to start with.

Even the free version of Audio Tools on an iPhone will show gaps without the need for a decent mic attached.

I use the AudioFrog mic and testing kit.

https://testgear.audiofrog.com/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[A4x]

Maybe I posted the wrong link above, but I bought a Dayton iMM-6 a long time ago and it works great with my Windows 7 laptop and Room EQ wizard. I paid under $20 for it. You definitely don't need that $60 mic someone else posted above.

Room EQ wizard is so much better and more detailed than any free app I could find on my phone at that time.

[Spawne32]

Do you feel as though these 6.5" speakers are shit compared to the OEM speakers, just based on the specs? https://www.parts-express.com/6-1-2-poly-cone-midbass-woofer-4-ohm--299-609 Do you think its a bad idea to keep the RS75's in the tweeter location even if I high pass them at 4k?

Like you said I am going to wind up spending a fortune calibrating this possibly, I am wondering if going back to the OEM speakers at those points is probably more beneficial. Or if something like this would be more beneficial.... https://www.daytonaudio.com/product/97/rs150-4-6-reference-woofer-4-ohm


Btw here is the charts for the RS75...

https://i.imgur.com/JBr0j08.png

[A4x]

I'm not an expert on driver specs but here is my opinion: The issue with throwing in those 6.5" replacement speakers is that we don't know how the sensitivity compares to the OEM speakers. I've read that OEM speakers are usually very efficient (ie. high sensitivity. That is they put out a lot of sound relative to power input). Often replacement speakers will have a lower sensitivity and will put out less sound for the same power input. I'm sure Audi had some kind of sound engineers match the stock door woofer to the dash tweeters and try to ensure their sound output is the same. Once you change one speaker, or both, you might lose that balance.

This could be your issue.

Or the issue is what I mentioned above. Since your RS75s have no filter on them, both the door woofer and RS75 are overlapping between 400-4000 Hz and the sound output is reduced.

The stock amp is so weak that I don't think you can expect a decent mid-bass response, especially with anything other than stock (efficient) speakers. Mid-bass (and bass) takes power to sound good. I was blown away at the improvement in mid-bass when I threw in an aftermarket amp. The issue then became smoothing out the entire curve and matching the woofers to the tweeters, and this is where a DSP is really needed.

Aftermarket amps are pretty cheap. Boss has some budget level ones that work just fine. However this is a slippery slope as you will soon want/need a DSP.

[Spawne32]

I'm not an expert on driver specs but here is my opinion: The issue with throwing in those 6.5" replacement speakers is that we don't know how the sensitivity compares to the OEM speakers. I've read that OEM speakers are usually very efficient (ie. high sensitivity. That is they put out a lot of sound relative to power input). Often replacement speakers will have a lower sensitivity and will put out less sound for the same power input. I'm sure Audi had some kind of sound engineers match the stock door woofer to the dash tweeters and try to ensure their sound output is the same. Once you change one speaker, or both, you might lose that balance.

This could be your issue.

Or the issue is what I mentioned above. Since your RS75s have no filter on them, both the door woofer and RS75 are overlapping between 400-4000 Hz and the sound output is reduced.

The stock amp is so weak that I don't think you can expect a decent mid-bass response, especially with anything other than stock (efficient) speakers. Mid-bass (and bass) takes power to sound good. I was blown away at the improvement in mid-bass when I threw in an aftermarket amp. The issue then became smoothing out the entire curve and matching the woofers to the tweeters, and this is where a DSP is really needed.

Aftermarket amps are pretty cheap. Boss has some budget level ones that work just fine. However this is a slippery slope as you will soon want/need a DSP.

I don't really want to get that deep into that with changing to a DSP and a amp etc. I'm not opposed to putting a small monobock on the sub but rewiring the whole car is out of the question. I am going to try high pass filtering those daytons, waiting on the parts to get here but now I question whether or not they are even suitable for use in that "tweeter" location or if something like a Dayton ND25TA-4 would perform better (20 Watts RMS, 91 dB 2.83V/1m) in those two locations along with a Dayton DC160-4 in the 6.5 slot for mid bass. I have read that you don't need to drive the speakers up to the max RMS and that they can operate as low as 30% the power, which in this case, if its 40 watts on that channel, would be roughly 70% of the speakers optimal RMS rating. Am I doing the math wrong on that? Would it actually be an improvement or a downground over the OEM speaker? That's whats up in the air for me.

[Spawne32]

Well I know now what my problem is...the factory door speakers are 2ohm...and I put 4ohm speakers in.

[A4x]

Really? Thought they were all 4 ohm. I have the Concert system which I suspect is the same as the Symphony.

[Spawne32]

Really? Thought they were all 4 ohm. I have the Concert system which I suspect is the same as the Symphony.

Yeh I'll post some pics in a few, measured in at 1.8ohm, roughly 7.5" diameter on the front door speakers.

[Spawne32]

https://i.imgur.com/WoKtOfJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/g4P0NfN.jpg

[Spawne32]

Service manual doesn't describe a 4 channel AMP, it shows 6 distinct channels.

https://i.imgur.com/O0XXbos.png
https://i.imgur.com/dPvNqFJ.png

[A4x]

It is a 6 channel amp.

I think the speakers are 4 ohm AC impedance. This is how speakers are measured.

What you are measuring with a multimeter is 2 ohm DC resistance. It is a different measurement. The speakers are a "4 ohm" type.

[Spawne32]

It is a 6 channel amp.

I think the speakers are 4 ohm AC impedance. This is how speakers are measured.

What you are measuring with a multimeter is 2 ohm DC resistance. It is a different measurement. The speakers are a "4 ohm" type.

I was told DC resistance reads slightly lower than the AC resistance?

[Spawne32]

4 ohm speakers are reading 3.6 on DC resistance.

[Smac770]

Don't mix the sound system with the front end. You can have the CAN bus infotainment system with a Concert front end and the "standard" sound system (amp/speaker configuration). You can also have the MOST bus infotainment system with a MMI 3G High front end and the "standard" sound system. And the amp/speaker arrangement is the same, because it's the same sound system. Though the amp location is different in the specific of MMI 3G + standard (ie, built into the radio unit). For the US, we only get either the standard or the B&O sound system.

The B&O speakers are all 4Ω. I'm not surprised that the standard system would use 2Ω speakers to maximize wattage from lower rated amplification. Cheap volume at the trade off of control/damping.

DC means 0Hz. So DC resistance is simply the very left end of the AC impedance vs frequency curve. And for something playing in the midrange, the impedance at 0Hz is not all that useful. But that's the basis of "nominal" impedance, a single value, vs an actual impedance curve.

This is cool, but I'm not about to drop $500 on that iAudioInterface2. Similar can be accomplished with REW, just need a 100Ω resistor (only got a few 47Ω laying around).
https://studiosixdigital.com/audiotools-modules-2/speaker-test-modules/impedance-meter--sweep.html

A document found in a thread that was a very interesting read, particularly on the subject of crossover frequency:
https://testgear.audiofrog.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/A-Straightforward-Stereo-Tuning-Process-and-Some-Notes-About-Why-it-Works.pdf

As you measured, they are 8" mounting, but not even 6" for the cone diameter. So 6" would be the value of consideration when talking about the speaker's capabilities.

[Spawne32]

So I am going to test the factory tweeters and see if I can figure out the impedance roughly of those, but for the sake of argument, could a set of 2 ohm component speakers work better in these locations than trying to buy individual speakers, or do you think something like Powerbass L2-700 would be good in those 8" mounting brackets? I retrofitted those brackets to accept a 6.5" speaker but I can easily increase the size in that area if I wanted to. The rear doors i have the 6.5" adapter brackets already in there so I can change those as well to basically any 6.5" setup. For instance PowerBass L2-6C https://www.crutchfield.com/p_151L26C/PowerBass-L2-6C.html?tp=106

[Spawne32]

Pulled the trigger on the 7" powerbass speakers.....night and day difference, oh my god. the mids are all back where they should be. I am going to convert the rear 6.5" to the powerbass component mids and use the included crossover, and i have a OEM tweeter coming for testing, so either Ill use the power bass tweeters in the OEM front left and right tweeter location and do my own crossovers, or keep the Dayton's and keep the 4000hz crossovers.

[Smac770]

If we look at the standard sound system, this is the block diagram:

180160

The only amp spec we have to the front door speakers is "40w". We don't have any normal bench specs for under what condition that 40w is defined. No distortion spec, no load impedance, not even if it's average, rms, or peak power.

If we look at the door speaker setup and guess a bit, based on your info that the door speaker seems to be 2Ω nominal and the tweeter seems to be 8Ω nominal:

179988

I'm guessing the capacitor is 5uF roughly, based on A4x saying the filter point (-3dB) is 4kHz. [fc = 1/(2πRC, so 4000=1/(2*π*8*C) solves for C=5uF] π is supposed to be pi, but that doesn't look anything like pi to me.

There are some cool crossover calculators also out there:
https://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Calculator/SpeakerCrossover/
https://www.v-cap.com/speaker-crossover-calculator.php
I like the schematic drawings made by the first link there.

If we look at the picture, the two drawings at the top would be stock, showing how the capacitor on the tweeter has a frequency dependent impedance that rises as frequency drops. This is the basis of the "bass blocker" usage of a capacitor in series with the speaker. I'm guessing at 8V, seems reasonable, and means the amp does not need any DC-DC converters to boost voltage for its rated output.

Notice how the tweeter, with it's higher impedance, and then the additional impedance of the capacitor, even in the frequency space the tweeter is outputting, it significantly drops the current flow through that branch, thus reducing the power applied to the tweeter. I used this capacitor impedance calculator to guesstimate the cap impedance: https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/tools/capacitor-impedance-calculator/

But what are two of the really important details we don't get from this diagram? We see the power to the tweeter is only about 1/8 that of the main speaker. But we know nothing about the sensitivity ratings for the two speakers, nor about the relative volume levels of the two speaker locations. It would have been interesting for you to run pink noise with one RS75-4 in the dash and one in the door, using only one at a time, and to get an RTA graph for the two locations so it could be compared how the two locations impact the output results at the ear.


On to the bottom diagram, this is what you first converted your system into. No more reactive devices to perform any filtering. Just a full range speaker in the dash and a full range speaker in the door, both of the same impedance. We see the current flow is not any worse, 4A total-ish, so we're not worried about our amp. But now we have 4x the power going to the dash speaker, and across the entire frequency range. And we have cut the power to the door speaker in half. So that the door speaker seemed to not be present when the dash speaker was loud is not too unexpected.


Now you've replaced the 4Ω Parts Express speaker with the 2Ω PowerBass speaker. What is the change?
https://www.parts-express.com/6-1-2-poly-cone-midbass-woofer-4-ohm--299-609
-> 4Ω, [email protected]@1m, or 85dB@1W@1m
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_151L2700/PowerBass-L2-700.html
-> 2Ω, [email protected]@1m (90dB@1W; 2.83v and 2Ω is 4W, or +6dB vs 1W).

That means for the same voltage, the PowerBass is 8dB louder than the PartsExpress. For the same wattage, the PowerBass is 5dB louder. That's a 3dB difference, or "double something". What's the something, it's the power. The PowerBass is half the impedance, so for any given voltage, the current is double and so the power is double, and so it's +3 more dB for the same voltage.

So that would explain why the door speaker seems to actually be working now.


But then the new question, what to do about the dash speaker. Take the original system. The dash tweeter produced only 4000Hz and up, roughly. Nearly all the music was coming from the door speaker. The dash was just high frequency (the top 2.5 octaves) fill, a space the 8" had no chance of producing well. If you listen to just the PowerBass speakers, unplug the dash speakers, how do you feel about the sound? Just needs the highs filled in? Or you're not satisfied with the vocals and other aspects?

I'm not a fan of letting multiple speakers overlap significantly in their frequency output. In component systems, there's a crossover point and the faster the sound is handed off from one driver to the other, the better, typically. If you want to keep the RS75-4 on hand, you have to decide if it want it to be a midrange and treble speaker and set a two-way crossover so the PowerBass is just a mid-bass driver. Of if you want to let the PowerBass play full range and just have the RS75-4 crossed over high as just a poor treble speaker. I doubt it would work as well as a dedicated tweeter for the purpose.

If you do keep the RS75-4, even with a cap on it, it'll put a little more strain on the amp since it's half the impedance of the original tweeter. Since it's only in the high octaves where the power output is low anyway, likely not to be much of a concern to the amp. But something to be careful of, since we know little to nothing of the amp specs and its tolerances.

[Spawne32]

Alright so what I am doing is putting the OEM tweeters back in those two locations, I'll leave one of the RS75-4's in the center channel speaker. The caps on the tweeters are 10uf, so ~4000hz, would it make sense to low pass the door speakers at the same frequency or do you think they would be fine based on their ratings? That just leaves me with the dilemma of whether or not the parts express 6.5" are suitable in the 6.5" locations in the rear doors as they sit with the tweeters back there. Can we logically assume that they should have been 2ohm as well? I don't have any good ones from that location to measure the OEM spec unfortunately.

On a side note completely off the subject of those, I used a Sound Ordnance M2-10DVC set up for a 2ohm load (based on the OEM sub measurements) and I am considering putting that on a monoblock. But I haven't been able to locate a suitable smaller monoblock that seems to work with a DVC set up for 2ohm. The cheaper monoblock's don't seem to have the ability to bridge the two channels, and I haven't found anything that suggests you could run each of the voice coils on a different channel output at a 4ohm load.

Edit: Additionally, someone recommended running it 180* out of phase because of the way its positioned now. Thoughts?

[Smac770]

If they are 10uF, then that would be a 2000Hz -3dB point for an 8Ω impedance.

The original door speakers had no filtering of the high frequencies. It could be the original door speakers had no sensible output above 2000Hz to interfere with the tweeter output, or the outputs did not interfere. Your PowerBass speakers are certainly capable of playing up past 2000Hz according to the specs, but does any of that make it to your ear given how the speaker is mounted in the car? You need an RTA and measurements. Or you're just random guessing. Or just listen; the final judge and the only one that matters are your own ears.

As for the rear doors, again, first thing I'd do is fade/balance the sound to one corner, play quality pink noise track and run an RTA measurement. Is the response curve imbalanced? Note, this is a bit more complicated in that car because of the center channel. Better to disconnect that so it's not interfering with the recorded sound levels.

Subwoofer, it's two 4Ω coils, which you can either do in series for an 8Ω load or in parallel for a 2Ω load. Clearly in parallel is the preference to boost the power delivery. So amp + to red to red, amp - to black to black. Keep in mind, you can run a separate amp channel to each voice coil. So instead of a 200x1@2Ω amp, you could also use a 100x2@4Ω amp, which is very commonplace.
https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204374150-Speaker-Wiring-Tutorial
Note the caveats of running that config, though.

I personally wouldn't bother with a stereo amp that can be bridged. I'd look simply for a mono 2Ω class-D amp. https://www.crutchfield.com/g_347250/Mono-Amplifiers.html?tp=35834 Any of those have more than enough power to drive that sub to its capability.

Not sure why you would run the sub out of phase, if you think Audi got it wrong and you want to swap the +/- leads, go for it, see how it sounds. I've never had a rear deck subwoofer, so not sure what the premise about the phase swap is.

[Spawne32]

Damn, totally forgot about the impedance when figuring the crossover point. Here I thought I was learning something. lol Question though, so I tried looking for a 2ohm class D amp (monoblock) and I cannot seem to find anything that would be within the power specifications of that sub? It's rated for 50-150 watts RMS (75 watts RMS per coil) but pretty much all of the monoblocks exceed this. Would it make sense to get a small 2 channel amp and run it on just a single channel? Can you leave the other channel not hooked up? Is that just a waste? I looked at a Sound Storm Labs EV200.2 which is 2 ohms: 100 watts x 2 chan. which falls within the middle of the RMS spec for that sub, would that make more sense?

Far as the phase goes, someone on here said that the reason you would wire it out of phase is because of how we are reversing the direction of the way the sub faces, but frankly I cannot hear the difference myself. My ear's are not sensitive enough for that.

[Smac770]

Oh, is the sub mounted inverted from the original? I don't know, I don't have a sedan. If that's the case, then it might make sense to invert the polarity. I don't want to say "wire it 180° out of phase", because while that's somewhat what gets accomplished, the swapping of the + and - is in fact "inverting polarity". Ie, you're not shifting the waveform left or right, you're flipping it upside down. So when the speaker would have pushed out, now it pulls in.

To test that, you would take the stock sub mounted in the stock manner, and put a 9v battery to it, + to + and - to -, and see which way the cone moves. On the rear deck, the cone is going to move up or down with a positive side input. Then take your now mounted solution, do the same, does it move in the same direction? If so, polarity is correct. If not, invert the polarity by swapping the + and -.

Note, holding a cone in a static position heats up the coil quickly, so impulse it and release it, don't hold it there.

On the amp stuff, that executive summary statement is "for a 150W rms sub, get a 200W rms or 250W rms amp, but even a 300W rms amp is not a problem". But you don't want just a 150W rms amp. So all of those amps are just fine. I'll do up another diagram after lunch.

[Smac770]

Spawne32, I think this vid does a great job of explaining the use of amp gain to address your concern. You'll love it; it even includes dyno runs.

https://youtu.be/gg2gl-fz2Qc

[Spawne32]

Spawne32, I think this vid does a great job of explaining the use of amp gain to address your concern. You'll love it; it even includes dyno runs.

https://youtu.be/gg2gl-fz2Qc

I see.... interesting.

[A4x]

But then the new question, what to do about the dash speaker. Take the original system. The dash tweeter produced only 4000Hz and up, roughly. Nearly all the music was coming from the door speaker. The dash was just high frequency (the top 2.5 octaves) fill, a space the 8" had no chance of producing well. If you listen to just the PowerBass speakers, unplug the dash speakers, how do you feel about the sound? Just needs the highs filled in? Or you're not satisfied with the vocals and other aspects?


This is not quite true. The capacitor on the stock dash tweeters is 10 uF, the speakers are 4 Ohm, which puts the crossover point at 4000 Hz. Since this is a first order filter, A LOT of sound will bleed over the crossover point and still be played below 4000 Hz. With a 3rd or 4th order filter, you obviously get less bleed over but with a single capacitor there is A TON of bleed over.

I wouldn't be surprised with the stock tweeter if you get significant sound output still at 3000 Hz, and even some at 2000 Hz.

The door woofer will suck at those frequencies, so a lot of what you are hearing is from the tweeter.

Also, in your block diagram the total wattage adds up to 195 W, while the system specs from Audi are 180 W.

[Spawne32]

This is not quite true. The capacitor on the stock dash tweeters is 10 uF, the speakers are 4 Ohm, which puts the crossover point at 4000 Hz. Since this is a first order filter, A LOT of sound will bleed over the crossover point and still be played below 4000 Hz. With a 3rd or 4th order filter, you obviously get less bleed over but with a single capacitor there is A TON of bleed over.

I wouldn't be surprised with the stock tweeter if you get significant sound output still at 3000 Hz, and even some at 2000 Hz.

The door woofer will suck at those frequencies, so a lot of what you are hearing is from the tweeter.

Also, in your block diagram the total wattage adds up to 195 W, while the system specs from Audi are 180 W.

Dash speakers are 8ohm though, that's why the crossover point changes. I'm sure there's a math equation for this. lol Honestly I was kind of surprised myself at the fact that it was an 8ohm speaker.

[A4x]

How do you know it is 8 ohm?

Stock system is 4 ohm.

[Spawne32]

How do you know it is 8 ohm?

Stock system is 4 ohm.

Because I measured it with a multimeter? lol Stock system, at least my stock system is def not a 4ohm system. I'm not sure you can even put a specific rating on this amp because for all intents and purposes its seeing a 1.66ohm load. Again, that shit is above my pay grade. That was literally the biggest mistake I made, assuming it was a 4ohm system like the forums said, and completely messed up how the system sounded.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLuXqDFc1CM

[Smac770]

Fixed the diagram, 25w should have been 20w. Trying to update a pic on this forum engine sucks.

I've seen no one produce RTA charts for the individual speakers installed at the individual locations for the standard sound system, so we're only guessing at what actually makes it to the ear regarding how the main speaker rolls off and how the tweeter response matches in. Half frequency is one octave, so if the tweeter has a -3dB point of 2k, it's going to be -9dB at 1k. That's only one octave. But -9dB, we're assuming is going to be very noticed, unless the main speaker is there covering the range up to 2k. But maybe there's a brightness in that frequency range when installed in the dash location and they are working with that. We don't know. We have no at the ear data of the OEM components.

The B&O speakers are all marked 4Ω, based on their pictures. None of the standard speakers are marked, and measurements seem to imply they are other than 4Ω.

[A4x]

Because I measured it with a multimeter? lol Stock system, at least my stock system is def not a 4ohm system. I'm not sure you can even put a specific rating on this amp because for all intents and purposes its seeing a 1.66ohm load. Again, that shit is above my pay grade. That was literally the biggest mistake I made, assuming it was a 4ohm system like the forums said, and completely messed up how the system sounded.


Again, measuring DC resistance is not going to tell you the AC impedance.

What did you measure for DC resistance on the stock tweeter?

For example, this one is a 4 ohm tweeter but the DC resistance measurement is 2.7 Ohm.

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/vifa-soft-dome-tweeters/vifa-ne19vts-04-3/4-silk-dome-tweeter-4-ohms/

[Spawne32]

Again, measuring DC resistance is not going to tell you the AC impedance.

What did you measure for DC resistance on the stock tweeter?

For example, this one is a 4 ohm tweeter but the DC resistance measurement is 2.7 Ohm.

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/vifa-soft-dome-tweeters/vifa-ne19vts-04-3/4-silk-dome-tweeter-4-ohms/

DC Resistance on the door midbass speakers was 1.8ohms and the tweeter measured in at 6.6~6.7ohms. Nominal impedance is just an "average" from what I understand.

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/293404-dc-resistance-vs-rated-impedance-amplifier.html

[Audi 4 Life]

I havent fully read thru this whole thread but I was just wondering if anyone has used the Dayton audio shallow mount sub???

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-ls10-44-10-low-profile-subwoofer-dual-4-ohm--295-251?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7bWaqKLL6gIV3B-tBh2eGgodEAQYECABEgLJbfD_BwE

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[whats77inaname]

This has been intriguing to me for the past few weeks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tt3QHRiaRI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAjLLWkp2qQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5md0_fdV5O4

[PedroA4]

I havent fully read thru this whole thread but I was just wondering if anyone has used the Dayton audio shallow mount sub???

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-ls10-44-10-low-profile-subwoofer-dual-4-ohm--295-251?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7bWaqKLL6gIV3B-tBh2eGgodEAQYECABEgLJbfD_BwE

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

I don’t think this will fit the cut out unless you enlarge the hole or create a custom mounting ring.

[PedroA4]

This has been intriguing to me for the past few weeks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tt3QHRiaRI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAjLLWkp2qQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5md0_fdV5O4

When I used to compete I had a 12 ina transmission line folded horn hybrid.
It was super musical and loud as hell.

When I traded that car in I put a 10 in a folded horn with just 300-500 watts rms it was very loud.
There are some super efficient enclosures out there.

[kashanova]

Do you guys know an audio shop in the tri-state area that could work on our cars?

[primaryw]

What are the specs/parts on your build? I am looking to do similar.

[B8Brit]

Has anyone put a list together of direct replacement speakers...like a good/better/best list?
I'm replacing the sub (blown) and my front driver speaker is also blown and i'm not interested in doing a crazy build.

I would love to see a list (maybe a sticky) of what people recommend for direct replacement stuff.

Thanks,

[Spawne32]

Has anyone put a list together of direct replacement speakers...like a good/better/best list?
I'm replacing the sub (blown) and my front driver speaker is also blown and i'm not interested in doing a crazy build.

I would love to see a list (maybe a sticky) of what people recommend for direct replacement stuff.

Thanks,

Yes, shoot me a PM.

[idle]

Yes, shoot me a PM.

Do you also have subwoofer recommendations since all of these previously mentioned ones are discontinued?

[Spawne32]

Amp connector:

https://i.gyazo.com/9680797a34bab0373b7eaf7156745459.png

High level signal wires:

https://i.gyazo.com/828c1802ca12fc45f56c3a5c26835e97.png

Low level signal wires:

https://i.gyazo.com/ced9d3cd4ec597892e6b33f25c3f719e.png

So I finally ordered a monoblock for the sub, Soundstream Stealth Single Shot 500 watt micro amp. I was a little per-plexed as to how to wire this at first but I ordered a Kicker 46KISLOC2 K-Series Stereo Line-Output Converter w/Remote Turn-On Output and as far as I understand it, I am wiring the line output converter to... Rear L and Rear R positive and negative, then using the RCA hookups and remote wire to power on the amp, yes? Then speaker outputs from the amp to the sub.

[Smac770]

Spawne32, here's my guess at how I'd probably wire it up at first and see how it plays out.

228980

Some points. The pics of the 6-pin molex pig tail on the website and that ebay listing are for the ST4.500D, which has a different pinout than for the 6-pin on the ST1.500D. So the one you get might have different wire colors, but I can't guess at what they will be.

The amp supports both low level and high level (low voltage, ie line level, and high voltage, ie speaker level) inputs. Using the speaker level, you have half the input wires to deal with, and the signal is already crossed over at a point that integrates with what the J525 is doing with the main speaker outputs. So you'd set the crossover switch to flat. The ST1.500D manual says when using the speaker level inputs, connect the input ground wire (the center one) to the ground wire of the amp to minimize noise.

I drew the big wires on the factory amp on the image, they are all 2.5mm^2, or roughly 13awg. The eight speaker output wires to the four corners are 1.5mm^2, or ~15awg. The two center channel wires are 1.0mm^2 (~17awg), and the rest of the wires are all small .35mm^2 (22awg) signal wires.

For power to the amp, I suggest wiring it to the spare fuse slot on the fuse panel A, the block on the battery positive post:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0810/3325/files/blog_wiring_rear_battery_pos.png
If you can't find a 30 amp fuse blade of the type necessary for that slot, you could run the power wire to the battery side post like here:
https://images.etrailer.com/static/images/pics/c/5/c56200kit_2010~audi~q5_6_500.jpg
But I'd want a fuse at the battery for any hot line coming off the battery.

For the two ground lines from the amp, run it back to the grounding post either near the battery or in the left or right cargo space (J525 is likely grounded to the one in the left, J393 and such would be near the one on the right). Torque spec is 9Nm for the cargo left/right ground nuts; 18Nm for the one the battery negative is cabled to. I would not run them directly to the battery negative post. If the ground line on pin 2 of the J525 is short to the ground post, you could probably just run that middle speaker level input ground line to the ground post; see if it's good enough for noise free signal input.

I'd run 12ga is really short (<1m) or 10ga if longer than 1m, based on https://www.crutchfield.com/S-baaT8yTE9DV/learn/learningcenter/car/cable_gauge_chart.html

I'd probably run 12ga for the runs from the amp to the sub unless the amp is right next to the sub or such. 14ga if <1m.

The amp has a remote turn on lead, the blue wire on the 6-pin molex. The manual says the amp has auto-on/off when using the speaker level inputs, but you should monitor the amp state when you turn the car off (and radio goes out) to make sure it's not staying on. If need be, just connect the remote turn on pigtail lead to any fuse opening on a term 15 fuse column. Or to the output of the sockets relay (any of the 12v sockets fuses), so it goes off when the sockets go off.

Good luck.

[Spawne32]

Smac you are a god damn genius, you know that?

[Smac770]

Well, see if it works first. ;-)

[Spawne32]

Got some ANL fuses, but these thing's look way too big for that location. Any idea what I could use?

[Spawne32]

So I think I got the fuse solution figured out, its either going to wind up being a mini ANL fuse or a "flat fuse strip" something about a diesel glow plug fuse. Measured the distance between the two posts to be about 1 1/8th inches between each other, or roughly 28-29mm. Found two possible solutions on the Amazon.

uxcell 4pcs 30A Flat Fuse Strip Metal Silver Tone for Car Automotive DC 32V 42x12mm
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NRKRMD8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Install Bay MANL30 - 30 Amp Mini ANL Fuses (2 Pack)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004WK4VG8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Also got the amp in today and wow is this thing tiny. The layout and specifications on it are totally different than what was originally listed. LPF does not seem to even be an option, even though there is 3 positions on the toggle switch. Rated at 250watts @ 2ohm load instead of 150 as listed.

https://i.imgur.com/0N2qVzb.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/b9DV9L4.jpg

[Spawne32]

AWG on the input wires is 22awg, the power pigtail is all 16awg.

[Smac770]

No, ANL won't work. You're looking for fuse strip type stuff. When I search, 30mm center to center keeps coming up. So something like this: https://www.autohausaz.com/pn/15012102-N10424902

Another similar, but it seems to have a number of fuses, size is unclear - https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/littelfuse-fusible-link-for-volkswagen-00940402zp/11499074-p

https://catalog.hella.com/catalog/product/view/id/26503/s/8JS%20713%20575-102/
So overall 42mmx12mm, probably with 30mm center to center.

[Smac770]

Yeah, I'd give that uxcell link a try, more so than a mini ANL.

[Smac770]

I can't make out the text, I assume that says FLAT and HI-CUT (aka Low pass). Class D monoblock, not much point in a high pass option as 99.99% of the uses would be as a sub amp.

[Spawne32]

I can't make out the text, I assume that says FLAT and HI-CUT (aka Low pass). Class D monoblock, not much point in a high pass option as 99.99% of the uses would be as a sub amp.

Flat and HPF is what im reading.

[Spawne32]

Yeah, I'd give that uxcell link a try, more so than a mini ANL.

Ah i couldn't find the littel fuses in the store, but good call on that, I will have to look around if these don't work. Pretty sure the UXcell ones are the same thing.

[Spawne32]

Those uxcell fuses worked perfectly! Waiting on some heavier gauge speaker wire and two big rolls of 14 and 16 awg wire, then ill have it wired up either tomorrow or saturday. I wanted to make it easy and just use my wago's on everything, but the step down from 16 to 12 was just too large.

https://i.imgur.com/IPULhDO.jpg

[Spawne32]

Amp works good! Unfortunately, it does require a switch 12v remote wire to actually turn on. I had thought that the factory amp power wire would have been switched, but apparently it is not, or at least, it does not time out and turn off for at least 10 minutes which was as long as I waited. I know there are probably a few switched 12v sources on the right side, but i didnt want to have to run another wire to that other side, anyone know of any 12v switched source by the oem amp?

[Spawne32]

Found one! White and black twisted pair on one of the other harnesses.

[Smac770]

The 12v wire to the J525 is term 30, always on. The J525 gets commands to wake/sleep/etc from the CAN bus.

So I take it the amp's high level input autosensing on/off is not working, or the J525 is leaving too much voltage on the sub output for the amp to decide to shut off? I prefer direct control rather than auto sense stuff anyway.

If the J525 is the only thing in the left rear, there's no good switched line to work with. You're going to have to run a line to the right rear. Pretty much all of panel F (right rear) is term 30, except the fourth column (D, red). That is term 15, except the four 12v sockets fuses, which are term 87 (J393 controlled). I'd run it off one of the sockets fuse slots (rearward contact), see how that goes; one slot should be unused if you have a sedan.

[Smac770]

Found one! White and black twisted pair on one of the other harnesses.

This is in the left rear? Wonder what that is for. Twisted pair would normally be some type of comms. The wires are solid white and solid black, no stripes?

[Smac770]

Rear bumper wire work goes to the right, so thinking it must be the wheel well wiring, there is a solid white / solid black pair there. For the left rear ABS wheel speed sensor. ...

[Spawne32]

This is in the left rear? Wonder what that is for. Twisted pair would normally be some type of comms. The wires are solid white and solid black, no stripes?

Yes, that would be this one right here.

https://i.imgur.com/V95W7fv.jpg

[Spawne32]

Rear bumper wire work goes to the right, so thinking it must be the wheel well wiring, there is a solid white / solid black pair there. For the left rear ABS wheel speed sensor. ...

Probably should not tap off that one then is what you are saying? lol

[Smac770]

I'd say be cautious. If it is the ABS wheel speed sensor wires, it's clearly an important vehicle operation signal line.

The other electrical device down there would be the level sensor, brown, yellow, and gray/blue wires. If you have HID. But not sure what that pink or red wire is. There seems to be quite a number of wires in that bundle. It can't all be going through the wheel well grommet.

That other bundle seems to have the large cable from the battery. Wonder what all the other wires are for. I'd expect all the stuff in the right rear to come down the right side of the car, but maybe Audi ran some of it down the left.

But yeah, I'd be running that remote turn on lead to a known connection. A single small wire under the plastic of the back of the trunk should be simple enough to get over to the fuse panel.

[Spawne32]

I'd say be cautious. If it is the ABS wheel speed sensor wires, it's clearly an important vehicle operation signal line.

The other electrical device down there would be the level sensor, brown, yellow, and gray/blue wires. If you have HID. But not sure what that pink or red wire is. There seems to be quite a number of wires in that bundle. It can't all be going through the wheel well grommet.

That other bundle seems to have the large cable from the battery. Wonder what all the other wires are for. I'd expect all the stuff in the right rear to come down the right side of the car, but maybe Audi ran some of it down the left.

But yeah, I'd be running that remote turn on lead to a known connection. A single small wire under the plastic of the back of the trunk should be simple enough to get over to the fuse panel.

Don't happen to have access to wiring diagrams do you? I got that wire off an post about a 2013 A5 that someone used that wire.

[Smac770]

The Audi wiring diagrams do not lay out the wire routing in the car. Just point A, point B, and the wire color and size used to connect them. The diagrams also do not point out the purpose of each wire. It appears these 2-wire modern wheel speed sensors have one wire for 12v supply and one wire for result. But the diagram does not designate which is 12v and which is signal, etc.

If someone else has successfully utilized it, then run with it. Just don't be ignorant of what the wire is for. If you seem to start having odd DTCs or such about the wheel speed sensor or TPMS (nevermind, '09, so you have direct TPMS) or such, then keep this modification in mind when trying to analyze them.

[Spawne32]

The Audi wiring diagrams do not lay out the wire routing in the car. Just point A, point B, and the wire color and size used to connect them. The diagrams also do not point out the purpose of each wire. It appears these 2-wire modern wheel speed sensors have one wire for 12v supply and one wire for result. But the diagram does not designate which is 12v and which is signal, etc.

If someone else has successfully utilized it, then run with it. Just don't be ignorant of what the wire is for. If you seem to start having odd DTCs or such about the wheel speed sensor or TPMS (nevermind, '09, so you have direct TPMS) or such, then keep this modification in mind when trying to analyze them.

Yeh just wanted to have an idea what im tapped into. I was trying to see what the colors were coming off of the speed sensor and the parking brake on the left side there but my service manual does not seem to have those diagrams for some reason. I am not sure if twisted pairs are expressly identified on the diagrams either.

[Smac770]

parking brake motor V282, left side, is a largish (2.5mm^2, same as the power and ground to the J525) red/black and a largish brown/black. These come from the J540.

Wheel speed sensor, as already mentioned, is one white and one black.

I mentioned the three wires for the level sensor (if you have HID): brown, yellow, and gray/blue.

These are the three plugs on the wheel well harness, https://audi.7zap.com/en/usa/audi+a4+s4+avant+quattro/a4q/2009-636/9/971-971082/
In the upper right, we have 53 to the adaptive damper if 1BL, 55 to the parking brake motor, 56 to the wheel speed sensor. To the left of that is the level sensor if equipped, 51 if HID without 1BL, 50 if 1BL.

If you look in the upper left, 58->59 is the grommet and plug to the left outer tail lamp on a wagon, but 61->51 is the same for a sedan.

62 is your big 32-pin plug on the J525. A lot of the stuff down that branch won't be in your car without the MMI 2G equipment stack.

No, pairs twisted are not identified as twisted in the wiring diagrams. They have a lot of logical information, and leave out a lot of physical information.

The wiring diagram document is a separate document from the repair manual document.

[Spawne32]

Just wanted to update this, I did move the remote wire over to the fuse location and tapped off the cig lighter fuse, one of the 3 15amp fuses on the red fuse strip. The bass sounds great now that I have dialed it in more, its the rest of the speakers that now suck. I was looking at an ST4.500D for the doors, but given that the OEM components are mix and matched with various ohm speakers and such, I am unsure if that puts out enough juice compared to the stock amp or not.

[Smac770]

I wouldn't bother until you are replacing the speakers themselves and need more juice to drive better quality speakers. An ST4.500D would be more juice than the factory amp for sure. But it also only covers four of the remaining five speaker channels.

An ST3.1000D seemed interesting to cover the rears and the dash center, but it's not a symmetrical amp. More of a two corners plus sub config. The ST4.1000DB is interesting. Bluetooth your phone right to the amp; skip the whole front end.

[Spawne32]

I wouldn't bother until you are replacing the speakers themselves and need more juice to drive better quality speakers. An ST4.500D would be more juice than the factory amp for sure. But it also only covers four of the remaining five speaker channels.

An ST3.1000D seemed interesting to cover the rears and the dash center, but it's not a symmetrical amp. More of a two corners plus sub config. The ST4.1000DB is interesting. Bluetooth your phone right to the amp; skip the whole front end.

Already have replaced all the speakers in the car with the exception of the door tweeters. The front dash are all 8ohm versions of the Daytons, and I have 7" 2ohm powerbass in the front doors and 6.5" 2ohm Powerbass in the rear doors.

[Smac770]

8Ω + 2Ω in parallel is 1.6Ω, which is below the 2Ω rating of the amp. So you'd have to run them in series, which is 10Ω. But series is no good if you're using inline passive filtering. That 2Ω rating on the door woofers is going to be hard to work with. The real test would be to get an impedance sweep of the actual load (ie, across the two wires which would be connected to the amp channel) and see what the actual overall impedance curve is. It could be that the low impedance range of the door woofer is below that of the passive cutoff of the smaller speakers, so that at any specific frequency there is not an overall impedance problem. 1.6Ω DC doesn't mean it's actually that at any particular AC frequency within the frequency range of concern. 1.6Ω is not much less than 2Ω, but it's still -20%, and there's no way to know what the amp circuitry will do unless someone has tried it before.

Without an impedance sweep, it's hard to guess at from a numbers perspective.

[Spawne32]

8Ω + 2Ω in parallel is 1.6Ω, which is below the 2Ω rating of the amp. So you'd have to run them in series, which is 10Ω. But series is no good if you're using inline passive filtering. That 2Ω rating on the door woofers is going to be hard to work with. The real test would be to get an impedance sweep of the actual load (ie, across the two wires which would be connected to the amp channel) and see what the actual overall impedance curve is. It could be that the low impedance range of the door woofer is below that of the passive cutoff of the smaller speakers, so that at any specific frequency there is not an overall impedance problem. 1.6Ω DC doesn't mean it's actually that at any particular AC frequency within the frequency range of concern. 1.6Ω is not much less than 2Ω, but it's still -20%, and there's no way to know what the amp circuitry will do unless someone has tried it before.

Without an impedance sweep, it's hard to guess at from a numbers perspective.

I guess I have been a little confused about how the channels are laid out on the factory amp. From what I understand the two front doors mid woofers are an independent channel all by themselves? Or are they tied to the front two corner speakers. (appears to be so according to the wiring pinout) because if thats the case then yes they are in fact 8ohm + 2ohm speakers, however the irony in that is that is how the OEM setup was. I followed that setup based on measurements taken from the OEM speakers.

The rear doors, if I did everything correctly are 8ohm tweeters and I have 4ohm 6.5" mids in the lower rear doors, that would be a load rating of 2.67ohm's if I am not mistaken. So I guess the only thing that remains questionable is those front door channels. What I don't understand is how to calculate the RMS watts. The online calculator tells you that at 2.7ohm's its producing 49 watts at that load, is that even worth upgrading?

[Smac770]

On the B&O system, yes, the front door midbass drivers are separate channel. But don't you have the standard sound system? https://www.audizine.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=180160&d=1590688559
Or are you trying to convert your front end to have the sail card tweeters? With the sail card and dash corner on a channel and the door driver on a separate?

On the power stuff, I have to make pictures :-) But the bottom line is when you play your music at your volume level, is it clean and accurate? Or distorted, clipping, dulled (lacking impact on the leading edge of sounds)? If what you hear is fine, then things are fine.

[Spawne32]

Standard sound system, yes. I think I keep confusing the diagrams because there is more info out there for B&O than there is for standard sound systems. I have the 3 dash speakers and only a single speaker in the front door. 7" mid bass speakers from powerbass. My issue is that there is basically no mids right now. I have a buddy who put kicker speakers and a pioneer head unit in basically all his cars with no amp at all, just the headunit driving all of the speakers and it sounds 10x better than my car does with both the factory amp and the sub amp combined. lol It drives me absolutely insane that the speakers sound this terrible.

I have been unsure for a while if the factory amp is even working given how there is basically no midbass at all. I can hear sounds from all of the speakers, and they all test fine, but there just seems to be a whole frequency range missing when you listen to songs and compare two cars next to each other. Even his Toyota camry factory amplified system has much crisp clearer sound to it.

[A4fuzz]

I currently have the upgraded dash speakers from CaptainVideo as the only upgrade to my MMI 3G / Nav non-B&O. I just purchased a set of B&O sail panels and tweeters. Does anyone know what kind of strain this will put on the factory amp? I can't wrap my mind around the impedence specs of everything. I'm not sure what the specs were of the Daytons that I installed from Captain Video, but I understand that the center speaker is different than the other two dash speakers but I'm not sure if that was accounted for with the Daytons. Will there be any adverse effects from running 3 speakers on a channel (door, sail, dash)?

[Smac770]

If you have a cap on the tweeter so that it basically blocks signals below a few kHz, then that path will essentially be a no load on the amp in the frequency range that the door speaker will be a load on the amp. I assume you'll have some bass blocking cap on the midrange in the dash too. The normal B&O system would amp the door mid-bass on a separate channel, so the amp can do a high-pass crossover on the channel driving the midrange and tweeter. But you won't have that option, so you'll need caps on the mid and tweeter. Which also means you have to put all the speakers in parallel since you'll have different caps for the tweeter and mid and no cap (but maybe an inductor) for the woofer.

You won't really have any idea what you really have until you wire it up and take the two wires you would connect to the amp and instead connect them to an AC impedance sweep device and determine the actual impedance curve of your circuit across the entire frequency spectrum. That is what your amp is having to deal with.

You don't say anything about the impedance of the three speakers. The B&O tweeter is 4Ω. If it's the stock standard sound system door driver, I think that's 2Ω? No clue what your Daytons are. What was on the bottom of them? If they are 4Ω, having a 2Ω, 4Ω, and 4Ω in parallel would be a 1Ω load ( 1 / (1/2Ω + 1/4Ω + 1/4Ω) ). But if you have a cap inline with the tweeter and a cap inline with the mid and a coil inline with the woofer (or the woofer might have enough natural impedance rise with frequency), then the amp will only see significant (ie low in this context) impedance of two of the drivers at any one frequency.

[Smac770]

Here's a poor man's process for impedance measurement. But the problem is home multimeters tend to be useful for AC voltage across the audible spectrum. My mulitmeter is not a cheapie and it's only good for 50-400Hz AC voltage measurements.

https://www.wikihow.com/Measure-Speaker-Impedance

[Smac770]

Spawne32,

On the RMS wattage, this is a pretty good write up on the various measurements for AC: https://testguy.net/content/270-Peak-vs-Average-vs-RMS-Voltage

The other key thing about peak vs RMS amp ratings is the peak rating is usually at just 1kHz, while the RMS rating is with a 20-20k input signal. There's only so much total energy out of the amp; the more it's spread among the frequencies, the less any one frequency can reach. That's why the RMS rating is typically more valid. Though take the Soundstream ST4.500D page; they don't qualify the input signal they use for their peak and RMS ratings. So RMS qualifies the output measurement method but not the input signal.

Do you have an RTA graph for your listening position? Ie, do the electronics show the midrange drop out also? In the standard sound system, the dash speakers are tweeters, the door speakers are the mid-bass and mid-range. So you've replaced just the door speaker; it could be frequency range for the 7" PowerBass is not a good match for the mounting location. It could be the speaker there needs a lot more midrange volume to overcome the mounting location to the ear. It would be interesting to compare an RTA a foot in front of the speaker vs the mic at the normal head position. Maybe one of the two are wired out of phase with the rest of the system. Polarity is important too so the speakers are moving in the same direction (towards vs away) at the same time.

[Spawne32]

Spawne32,

On the RMS wattage, this is a pretty good write up on the various measurements for AC: https://testguy.net/content/270-Peak-vs-Average-vs-RMS-Voltage

The other key thing about peak vs RMS amp ratings is the peak rating is usually at just 1kHz, while the RMS rating is with a 20-20k input signal. There's only so much total energy out of the amp; the more it's spread among the frequencies, the less any one frequency can reach. That's why the RMS rating is typically more valid. Though take the Soundstream ST4.500D page; they don't qualify the input signal they use for their peak and RMS ratings. So RMS qualifies the output measurement method but not the input signal.

Do you have an RTA graph for your listening position? Ie, do the electronics show the midrange drop out also? In the standard sound system, the dash speakers are tweeters, the door speakers are the mid-bass and mid-range. So you've replaced just the door speaker; it could be frequency range for the 7" PowerBass is not a good match for the mounting location. It could be the speaker there needs a lot more midrange volume to overcome the mounting location to the ear. It would be interesting to compare an RTA a foot in front of the speaker vs the mic at the normal head position. Maybe one of the two are wired out of phase with the rest of the system. Polarity is important too so the speakers are moving in the same direction (towards vs away) at the same time.

I changed pretty much all the speakers in the car, since 4 or 5 of them eventually failed and needed replacement anyway. The front dash speakers, all 3 of them, are 8ohm versions of the Dayton's everyone has been using. RS75-8 I believe was the part number. They are full range speakers, 160 to 20,000Hz with 80.5dB 2.83V/1m sensitivity. You'd understand the sensitivity more than I would. I understand the frequency response range. I left the factory crossovers on the positive wire on both of the corners, the center channel is full range. The two front doors are Powerbass L2-700 2ohm mid range, 55Hz - 5.5Khz frequency response. Power Handling (RMS/Peak): 90 / 270 watts

The rear door 6.5's are generic polycone mid bass woofers, 50 to 6,000Hz frequency response, 4ohm. Got those from parts express as well. https://www.parts-express.com/6-1-2-Poly-Cone-Woofer-4-Ohm-299-609 Probably not a good match up of speakers, I am willing to bet. I had put these in before I had actually understood the system fully.

I do not have an RTA graph for my listening position unfortunately, kind of outside my level of expertise. I believe you had mentioned previously I could buy the tool to hook up to my phone and take some measurements though? I don't think anything is out of phase, id have to pull all the door panels to check, but I was pretty particular about making sure each wire was going to the correct terminal.

[miztahsparklez]

Find my post... I have the speaker wiring chart for b&o... they are on different channels.

[Spawne32]

Find my post... I have the speaker wiring chart for b&o... they are on different channels.

Don't have B&O.

[Smac770]

The PowerBass L2-700 is 90dB@1W@1m
https://powerbassusa.com/products/mobile-audio/l2-700-7-full-range/

The Dayton RS75-8 is [email protected]@1m
https://www.daytonaudio.com/product/1638/rs75-8-3-reference-full-range-driver-8-ohm

2.78V is basically 1W. P=(V^2)/R , 2.78V squared divided by 8Ω is nearly 1W Then again, impedance varies with frequency. And since neither make provides a free air impedance chart, who knows.

But all in all, it appear the L2 is 10dB louder for a given input than the RS. That's a lot. +10dB = 10x the power. More so, the RS are 8Ω vs 2Ω for the L2. That means the same voltage will produce four times more power (because it'll require four times the current) across the L2 than across the RS. In the standard sound system, the front door speaker and the front dash corner speaker are wired in parallel. So both speakers see the same voltage, whatever voltage the amp is creating at that instant. Four times as much current (nominally) will go to the L2 than the RS. So not only is the RS getting 1/4 the power that the L2 is getting, the RS needs 10x the power just to sound as loud as the L2 to start with. But that's just the electrical side. On the acoustic side, the mounting location under the dash should be a lot louder to the ear than down at the bottom of the door. So it could be these balance out by time the sound comes to your ear. Especially since our ears require more energy in the low end for it to sound as loud as sound in the midrange.

Without some instrumentation (RTA) of playing the L2 alone in the door and playing the RS alone in the dash, it's hard to speculate what's going on. Without a 20->20k sweep track and an RTA to measure the response at the ear location, you're left having to improvise. This is kind of a cool video, https://youtu.be/VQQHoQ5unXk You could download the audio file of it and play that back. I can hear my computer setup below 30Hz, but by 15k, I don't hear anything. More likely my ears than the tweeters. But it sounds pretty even volume wise. But you notice, by time it reaches 2k, there's just ear piercing shrill left. If you put the cap from the 8Ω OE tweeter on that 8Ω Dayton, it's going to implement the same cutoff. iirc, we thought that was around 2k? Meaning all the midrange is only really coming from the L2. Then again, that's not any different from before. The door woofer did all the midbass and midrange work. But maybe the L2 is not as balanced in that regard, or the balance gets lost between the mounting location and the ear location.

It's hard to guess at as I don't have that system to listen to. But I'd start with having just the one speaker at a time playing and listening to it and seeing what it's making. If the RS alone is just a bunch of tweeter range highs, then issues with the midrange are all going to be about the L2. So then listing to the L2 alone and see what it sounds like. Then move your head around and see if it changes drastically. Being on-axis vs off-axis, and varying the distance from speaker. Hopefully, that will point you in a direction of what's wrong, and then you can speculate how to correct it.

[Spawne32]

That was my primary reason for changing out the RS speakers to the 8ohm versions. In older posts on here, everyone was upgrading the dash speakers to the 4ohm versions of those, however they were so loud, or "bright" as I have heard it called, all you could hear was those speakers coming from the dash, and could not hear anything else coming from any other point in the car. The 8ohm versions dialed that back a lot. They did not sound too much different than the oem tweeters. Perhaps a little bit clearer, with a little bit more range. Unfortunately my aux jack is damaged right now, id have to tear the console out again and fix all of that before I could actually hook my phone up to it and play that video. The SD card slot has never worked for me from day one, no idea why. Something about the formatting. Audi will not update the radio unless they diagnose what's wrong first.

[cybernet99]

That was my primary reason for changing out the RS speakers to the 8ohm versions. In older posts on here, everyone was upgrading the dash speakers to the 4ohm versions of those, however they were so loud, or "bright" as I have heard it called, all you could hear was those speakers coming from the dash, and could not hear anything else coming from any other point in the car. The 8ohm versions dialed that back a lot. They did not sound too much different than the oem tweeters. Perhaps a little bit clearer, with a little bit more range. Unfortunately my aux jack is damaged right now, id have to tear the console out again and fix all of that before I could actually hook my phone up to it and play that video. The SD card slot has never worked for me from day one, no idea why. Something about the formatting. Audi will not update the radio unless they diagnose what's wrong first.

The SD card needs to be formatted in FAT/FAT32, and only mp3 files work. That had worked for me, and the card can’t be larger than 32gb.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[Smac770]

Hah, so an '09 Concert has a function my '09 MMI 2G doesn't (SD card slot).

But as noted, I'd use a SDHC card (not SDXC, and probably not a microSD card in an adapter) of 32GB or less in FAT32 format and just drop some MP3 files without any fancy folders or playlists. But it should do AAC files of MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 with LC profile (low complexity), and WMA (v7, v8, v9) files. Bit rate is variable or max 320kbps fixed bit rate.

[Spawne32]

I'll order one on amazon and see how it goes.

[ksminiman]

I have been reading this thread through and found tons of incredible info. After some deep searching, I could not find if anyone with non-B&O had added the remaining speakers in to fill out the sound. I am considering installing a 4 channel amp and running 4 of the dayton audio speakers in the B&O midrange locations and move the dash tweeters to the front door sails. Mainly for the rear seat passengers as there is nothing but bass/sub bass back there. While I'm at it, thought about replacing the rest of the speakers with quality units to crispen up the sound a little. Any thoughts on this would be helpful. Thanks.

Edit: B8.5 S4 non-B&O with a sub/amp combo already installed.

[Spawne32]

Well, as I suspected, the SDHC card did not work. This is why I wanted the software update for the radio but audi refused.

[cybernet99]

Hah, so an '09 Concert has a function my '09 MMI 2G doesn't (SD card slot).

But as noted, I'd use a SDHC card (not SDXC, and probably not a microSD card in an adapter) of 32GB or less in FAT32 format and just drop some MP3 files without any fancy folders or playlists. But it should do AAC files of MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 with LC profile (low complexity), and WMA (v7, v8, v9) files. Bit rate is variable or max 320kbps fixed bit rate.

In my 2010 B&O concert system I am able to use SDXC 32gb cards, formatted in fat32 using mp3 file format no problem. 320 max rate as well. I was able to use Artist/album format ok.


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[Spawne32]

In my 2010 B&O concert system I am able to use SDXC 32gb cards, formatted in fat32 using mp3 file format no problem. 320 max rate as well. I was able to use Artist/album format ok.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

I'm pretty sure on the 09 symphony non MMI system its very similar to the B7. Requires an SD only card, no bigger than 4gb.

[cybernet99]

I'm pretty sure on the 09 symphony non MMI system its very similar to the B7. Requires an SD only card, no bigger than 4gb.

I had thought that the 09/10 were the same. But if they are an older tech. Very possible


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[Smac770]

Audi changed over the tech for MY10. That's why my MY09 B8.0 still uses the same MMI 2G junk from the D3/C6/B7. I guess maybe there's Concert III and Concert III+. Looking at the parts, seems there's 8T1 035 168 K and L for Nov 3 '08 > Feb 2 '09. Then 8T1 035 168 R and S for after that. It very well could be the internal hardware changed and you'd need the updated unit to run the newer firmware.

You could try and delete the partition on that card and create just a 2GB partition and format it in FAT16 and see if it'll be picked up.

https://www.audiforum.us/threads/upgraiding-the-software-inside-audi-concert-radio.8774/
Looks like it isn't a filesystem issue (FAT16 vs FAT32) and probably not a partition issue (if the old unit can read a 4GB FAT32 partition). But trying a small partition on the SDHC card I think is still worth it.

[A4fuzz]

If you have a cap on the tweeter so that it basically blocks signals below a few kHz, then that path will essentially be a no load on the amp in the frequency range that the door speaker will be a load on the amp. I assume you'll have some bass blocking cap on the midrange in the dash too. The normal B&O system would amp the door mid-bass on a separate channel, so the amp can do a high-pass crossover on the channel driving the midrange and tweeter. But you won't have that option, so you'll need caps on the mid and tweeter. Which also means you have to put all the speakers in parallel since you'll have different caps for the tweeter and mid and no cap (but maybe an inductor) for the woofer.

You won't really have any idea what you really have until you wire it up and take the two wires you would connect to the amp and instead connect them to an AC impedance sweep device and determine the actual impedance curve of your circuit across the entire frequency spectrum. That is what your amp is having to deal with.

You don't say anything about the impedance of the three speakers. The B&O tweeter is 4Ω. If it's the stock standard sound system door driver, I think that's 2Ω? No clue what your Daytons are. What was on the bottom of them? If they are 4Ω, having a 2Ω, 4Ω, and 4Ω in parallel would be a 1Ω load ( 1 / (1/2Ω + 1/4Ω + 1/4Ω) ). But if you have a cap inline with the tweeter and a cap inline with the mid and a coil inline with the woofer (or the woofer might have enough natural impedance rise with frequency), then the amp will only see significant (ie low in this context) impedance of two of the drivers at any one frequency.

Thanks for the input, Smac. It looks like my Daytons are 4 ohm, so your calculations would be correct. All three of the Daytons have the 10 ohm resister soldered inline. The factory B&O tweeters also have the same resister on them. When I installed the Daytons, the factory dash corner speakers (non-B&O) also had the same resister. The center speaker did not have a cap so I assume that was a full range speaker, although it is now capped like the corners. I assume this means I already have three "tweeters" in the dash, even though the Daytons are more of a midrange. I'm not sure what I'm hoping to get out of the B&O speakers but I already bought them so i'll give it a try and see what happens. I just didn't want to overload the amp with incorrect resistance adding more speakers to the channel.

[Spawne32]

Audi changed over the tech for MY10. That's why my MY09 B8.0 still uses the same MMI 2G junk from the D3/C6/B7. I guess maybe there's Concert III and Concert III+. Looking at the parts, seems there's 8T1 035 168 K and L for Nov 3 '08 > Feb 2 '09. Then 8T1 035 168 R and S for after that. It very well could be the internal hardware changed and you'd need the updated unit to run the newer firmware.

You could try and delete the partition on that card and create just a 2GB partition and format it in FAT16 and see if it'll be picked up.

https://www.audiforum.us/threads/upgraiding-the-software-inside-audi-concert-radio.8774/
Looks like it isn't a filesystem issue (FAT16 vs FAT32) and probably not a partition issue (if the old unit can read a 4GB FAT32 partition). But trying a small partition on the SDHC card I think is still worth it.

So I tried FAT and FAT16, 2 and 4GB partition sizes with no luck so far. Problem I have with FAT16 is that windows 10 does not seem to want to detect it for me to actually transfer the data over.

[Spawne32]

Only thing I can think of is that an SDHC class 10 just isnt going to work regardless of how the partitions are formatted. I wonder if its possible to even get a regular old SD card these days.

[Smac770]

FAT is FAT16, supports up to 2GB. The other one is FAT32, for sizes to 32GB. You should be able to use FAT32 from what I find about the Audi; just seems like you need a true base SD card. And seems only MP3 format files in those earlier versions.

https://www.amazon.com/Memory-Stanard-Secure-Digital-IN2GBC4SD2P/dp/B07L9Y52K2/
Still out there, 2GB standard SD class 4, $8.

[Spawne32]

FAT is FAT16, supports up to 2GB. The other one is FAT32, for sizes to 32GB. You should be able to use FAT32 from what I find about the Audi; just seems like you need a true base SD card. And seems only MP3 format files in those earlier versions.

https://www.amazon.com/Memory-Stanard-Secure-Digital-IN2GBC4SD2P/dp/B07L9Y52K2/
Still out there, 2GB standard SD class 4, $8.

Yeh I found a transcend 2gb SD class 2 on there a few minutes later. Should be here tomorrow and ill give it a whirl. Shame I can't get this updated because I know they added support for SDHC later on.

[beefington]

So you are using the cleansweep to clean up the signals? Are the signals from the headunit time aligned, or have a funny EQ applied? I was hoping that was all being done in the amp. I have a JL Fix and will be feeding a JL TWK for my build. Funny enough I have a HD 900.5 that I will be using for my build.

If the signal from the HU is TA'ed or EQ'ed then it would make sense to still use the FIX (basicly the new CleanSweep without the DPS, or at least very limited, functions)... I was kind of hoping to be able to leave the Fix out of the build

My build is getting started Saturday it will be
2013 S5 with Concert stereo
maybe the JL Fix 82, but maybe not :P
JL TWK 88
Raspberry Pi with Digital audio output board (HiFi Berry Digi+) feeding the TWK via its digital input for FLAC file playback
the TWK will be feeding a JL HD900.5
Sub will be (at least to try) an IDMax10 d2 v4 mounted IB in the rear deck
rear speakers disconnected
currently I have SEAS Prestige 27TFFNC tweeters that will be built into custom door sails (this will be my first attempt at building a custom sail so this might be fun
Woofers will be SB Acoustics SB17NRXC35-4 in place of the factory door woofers
I am leaving the spot for the factory tweeters open so I have the option of putting mids in the spots at a later date if I want to

I have been reading some reviews of Stereo Intergity TM65 mk2 amd M25 speakers and they sound GREAT, so I might do my build with them instead, but I'm not 100% sure yet. not sure I want to spend another $450 on the build :P

I will hopefully have all the electronics wired in (depending on timing I might be running factory speakers off the new amp etc) so I will report back what I figure out too

Did you get the twk 88 to work with the low level from the head unit and leave out the fix ?

[Spawne32]

New SD card worked, so now I know for sure it wont read SDHC cards. I ran a mid range woofer test tone, and the audio sine sweep. On the mid range woofer test, I could hear the mid bass going, but you basically have to max the gain out on the factory head unit and turn the volume up to rear get anything. The daytons in the dash were loud and clear playing notes in the higher end on this test audio, but the doors were bleh. I'm not sure if thats just a lack of power to drive them or what.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVEEYddZIhQ

[Smac770]

Glad you found a card to work. Even limited to SD 2GB, a card can still hold a decent 12+ hours of MP3s.

It's hard to speculate from afar. If you open the door and listen in front of the woofer, does it sound more linear? What about versus to the side, off-axis as it would in the seating position? It could be the PowerBass just has poor off-axis response in the midrange.

"turn the volume up to rear get anything" Not sure what that's trying to say. I didn't realize the Audi amp had a gain control.

The PowerBass should only need 1W to sound loud enough to be heard. Maybe something is up with the signal coming to the front corners. Did you put a cap inline with the front corners? Or just on the dash speaker? Maybe you've introduced a low frequency cut much higher up than intended.

If I really wanted to confirm the sound of the PB vs the Dayton, I'd depin all the speaker outputs from the 32-pin except the front left and front right. You don't care about the center, sub, or rears right now anyway, and any sound from them is only messing up hearing what's actually happening in the front corners. Then unplug the Dayton on one side and the PB on the other side. Listen to whatever and balance full left vs full right to compare how the speakers are sounding. See if changing front seats pronounces any significant change (will vary the listening axis for the low door PBs). Get a base line of what the two speakers you actually have do. Then you can try and determine how to merge them.

You said you kept the same cap from the factory tweeters and put them on the Daytons? You might remove that and see how it sounds, or use a different cap value to implement a lower cutoff. That would be more like the B&O, where the midrange comes from the dash, and the door speakers are midbasses.

Just to have some context of of the terms:
subbass - bottom two octaves, 20-80Hz, keys 1-19 on the piano (key 1 is 27.5Hz)
midbass - next two octaves, 80-350Hz, keys 20-44 on the piano
midrange - next three octaves, 350-2.5kHz, keys 45-79 on the piano
treble - top three octaves, 2.5kHz-20kHz, keys 80-88 on the piano (key 88 is 4.2kHz)

I need to make new charts now that I have correct pink noise files, but my B&O front door midbass seemed to roll off over 300Hz, about the same point the dash midrange rolled in.

But as I mentioned, this is near impossible to do remotely. You need to isolate and experiment and see what it is you have in hand at the individual component level and work up to the integrated scenario and see at what point it falls apart. Then you can speculate how to correct that.

[Spawne32]

Glad you found a card to work. Even limited to SD 2GB, a card can still hold a decent 12+ hours of MP3s.

It's hard to speculate from afar. If you open the door and listen in front of the woofer, does it sound more linear? What about versus to the side, off-axis as it would in the seating position? It could be the PowerBass just has poor off-axis response in the midrange.

"turn the volume up to rear get anything" Not sure what that's trying to say. I didn't realize the Audi amp had a gain control.

The PowerBass should only need 1W to sound loud enough to be heard. Maybe something is up with the signal coming to the front corners. Did you put a cap inline with the front corners? Or just on the dash speaker? Maybe you've introduced a low frequency cut much higher up than intended.

If I really wanted to confirm the sound of the PB vs the Dayton, I'd depin all the speaker outputs from the 32-pin except the front left and front right. You don't care about the center, sub, or rears right now anyway, and any sound from them is only messing up hearing what's actually happening in the front corners. Then unplug the Dayton on one side and the PB on the other side. Listen to whatever and balance full left vs full right to compare how the speakers are sounding. See if changing front seats pronounces any significant change (will vary the listening axis for the low door PBs). Get a base line of what the two speakers you actually have do. Then you can try and determine how to merge them.

You said you kept the same cap from the factory tweeters and put them on the Daytons? You might remove that and see how it sounds, or use a different cap value to implement a lower cutoff. That would be more like the B&O, where the midrange comes from the dash, and the door speakers are midbasses.

Just to have some context of of the terms:
subbass - bottom two octaves, 20-80Hz, keys 1-19 on the piano (key 1 is 27.5Hz)
midbass - next two octaves, 80-350Hz, keys 20-44 on the piano
midrange - next three octaves, 350-2.5kHz, keys 45-79 on the piano
treble - top three octaves, 2.5kHz-20kHz, keys 80-88 on the piano (key 88 is 4.2kHz)

I need to make new charts now that I have correct pink noise files, but my B&O front door midbass seemed to roll off over 300Hz, about the same point the dash midrange rolled in.

But as I mentioned, this is near impossible to do remotely. You need to isolate and experiment and see what it is you have in hand at the individual component level and work up to the integrated scenario and see at what point it falls apart. Then you can speculate how to correct that.

Sorry that was a typo. I had to turn the volume up and the gain up to actually hear anything. I assume that is gain control on the headunit for treble, mid range and bass because all it does is make it louder and easier to get distortion. I suppose disconnecting them is about the only thing left that I can do. The OEM door speakers do not have crossovers from the factory, but then again, I don't know what their optimal frequency range was either. I suppose its possible they are just a poor choice to go with the factory amp.

lol I wish I could fly you out to NJ just solve this issue for me. It's difficult to understand all this from just what ive been reading online, and being partially deaf in one ear isn't helping me any. Typically I only have issues hearing anything above 8khz which most songs aren't going to be playing anyway. When I played the sine sweep, it did seem to play all the frequency ranges with some tones being much louder than others, and I could hear the direction of the sound changing as it went along, which I suppose is good. I suppose this is getting a little bit outside of how much I want to invest in this system at this point. I wanted it to sound nice, but I don't want to rip the car apart and spend weeks diagnosing it and hundreds of dollars either.

I guess my final question would be is, would just adding more watts to the door channels be any sort of benefit?

[Spawne32]

Another question, would band passing or low pass filtering help clear them up more so they only play mid notes? I don't have any charts for them to show the quality of the sound at what frequency but part of my thinking, based on my limited understanding is that maybe I should have put some sort of filter on these door speakers given how wide the frequency range is they are capable of producing.

[Smac770]

Oh, you mean "tone controls" in the head unit. Yeah, don't call that "gain". Amplifier gain control is on the amp for scaling the input signal so it fits within the amp's output capabilities once the amp amplifies it. The main amp stage is a fixed gain; you scale the input signal at the input stage with that gain control.

The tone controls are just that, they boost the volume of certain frequency ranges for personal taste. The smiley face is common because human hearing is like that, we hear midrange better than treble or bass. Older people can't hear treble worth a damn, and younger people can't get enough bass.

When you talk about they are quiet, do you mean for the midbass and the midrange frequencies? Or just after the sweep reaches a certain frequency point? I'm not sure if you're saying part of the output range sounds muted, or the speaker as a whole is overly quiet (this is where an RTA graph is numerical data easily conveyed and understood vs text).

That's why I said test the two types of speakers independently, see what they are doing specifically. It could be the PBs only come through well in the midbass region, and you'll need to reduce the passive crossover frequency on the Daytons to let them do the midrange, etc.

[Spawne32]

Just that the PB's need alot of volume before you actually hear them even if you put your ear up to it. Where as the daytons only take a little bit of volume before they are ear piercing loud. The PB's sound muffled almost, like the quality of the sound is not clear. Without pulling all the covers and wires out yet, just opened all the doors and listened to them independently, there is some mid bass coming from them, but you would expect with the volume blasting they would be thumping the door, and they are not. I do hear vocals, and I don't hear any high notes coming from them.

The daytons have 10uF capacitors, well the two corners do, inline on the positive wire, same way the oem tweeters would have been, the cap is just a little larger cus it I got it from parts-express and I think its designed for a higher voltage. I have 0.33mH inductor coils, and if I am not mistaken at 2ohms that would make a low pass filter for anything below about 900-950hz or so. The 10uF cps on the two corner daytons would be HPF's of 1800hz+ if my calculations are correct. The rear door 6.5's, also no crossovers from the factory, and I am unsure if the door tweeters have crossovers. I believe they do however and I think they are crossed at the same as the dash tweeters with 10uF caps. The subwoofer now far exceeds the overall power output of the rest of the system, so much so that it can literally drown it out if I don't turn the gain on the amp down to basically nothing. The rattling alone is enough to drown out the rest of the music. lol

[Spawne32]

Oh one other thing to note, obviously the tone controls are dumb, but I did see that the "bass" option on the headunit controls both mid bass and low bass. While its not very effective at doing anything with mid bass, I don't use it because it does control the subwoofer and makes it crazy loud way too easily.

[Spawne32]

So if i'm not mistaken, this was the calibrated microphone tool to be used with an RTA analyzer app on my phone, correct? https://www.amazon.com/Dayton-Audio-iMM-6-Calibrated-Measurement/dp/B00ADR2B84

[A4fuzz]

I just received my LC7i, Infinity Primus 3000 amp, Infinity Ref1070 subwoofer and a Quadlock amp connector/extender to use for tapping into speaker outputs. I'll be going free-air in the rear deck for now as I just want a little bit more bass and clarity. I went with the LC7i in the event I want to add another amp for the front stage of the car but currently I will be limiting my install to the subwoofer and sound damping the back end. I haven't decided if i'll bother with the B&O tweeters or leave just the dash corner Daytons.

[Spawne32]

iMM-6 came in today, any recommendations on an app to use?

[Smac770]

The Studio Six Digital (company) Audio Tools (product) for $20 is what I would use on an iOS. https://studiosixdigital.com/audiotools-modules-2/the-audiotools-platform/cyber-monday-sale-pricing.html

The base app includes the SPL and RTA and FFT sections. https://studiosixdigital.com/audiotools-modules-2/acoustic-analysis-modules/fft/fft_or_rta.html

Dayton Audio has a page on how to download the calibration file for your mic and install it into Audio Tools.
https://www.daytonaudio.com/product/1117/imm-6-idevice-calibrated-measurement-microphone
https://support.daytonaudio.com/MicrophoneCalibrationTool

Another Dayton Audio device I ran across lately, https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-DATS-V3-Computer-Based-Audio-Component-Test-System-390-807
Pretty cool stand alone device for doing impedance curves. Ran across its predecessor, WT3, while looking for data on those L2-700 speakers.

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-S9wmAy9y5Zq/p_151L2700/Reviews/PowerBass-L2-700.html#&gid=1&pid=3
The guy was using WT3 to measure four L2-700 drivers he bought. You can see the stats like Fs (resonant frequency) and Re (DC resistance) have a decent variance across the samples. But we see in the right capture an Le value of .393mH as well. All cone drivers, having a big coil of wire in a magnetic field, have a natural inductance. By adding another inductor inline, you simply increase the overall inductance and shift the upward slope of the impedance to the left (to a lower start frequency). The guy mentions "good midbass, not so much for midrange, particularly off-axis". So that's where I'm thinking a crossover point more around 500Hz instead of 2000Hz might balance the L2-700 and RS75 into a config more like what we have in the B&O factory setup.

https://goodcalculators.com/crossover-calculator/

Anyway, looking at more stuff too, but my video game is calling me.

[Spawne32]

Using that crossover calculator, with the 10uf caps on the corner speakers, and the .15mh inductors, they would be crossed at just about 1980hz. I have an android phone, I think Audio Tools does however have an android app, so I will look into that.

[Spawne32]

So I just bought a box of low voltage caps off amazon rather then paying 7 dollars in shipping everytime I gotta order crossover components. lol I'll throw the .33mH inductors on the doors and 20uf on the dash speakers and work backwards from there and see how it sounds. That according to the calculator is 975hz crossover. So about 1000 less than what it is currently. That should provide at least I think an audible shift in sound, dontcha think?

[Smac770]

Yeah, I'd start personally with using that FFT tool to measure the sound at your ear while playing a pink noise file when just the corner Daytons are connected and when just the door PowerBasses are connected and see where a good switch over point might exist. You might have to do more like using level matching resistors or such to bring them into line if they do not match up at some good point.

[beefington]

Thanks for the answer!

Finished my install recently, but I did it somewhat different. I was planning to do the same way you did - using RCA jacks and line inputs (low level) of the amp, but the guys who sold me the amp said that they successfully fed those HU inputs into high level inputs. Additional plus of this scheme - you don't need to lay remote signal wires at all, the amp is signal-sensing. I cant say, maybe it's specific to this amp only (it's a localized version of ESX QE80.6DSP "processor& in one piece"), or applicable to all others amps. But the fact is that everything working correctly. Sometimes amp powers up without HU (like when you unlock or lock the doors), but if the HU still powered off, the amp also powers off very quickly (about 30 seconds), so no worrying about the battery drain.

Also, I've used a stock mounting (drilled some extra holes) and wire plug for this install.
https://a.d-cd.net/f6786b9s-1920.jpg


Hi Globetrotter where can i get this plug harness to buy? ( i know it was custom made tho )

[A4fuzz]

Does anyone else show a code for "open circuit - center loudspeaker" after replacing the dash speakers with Daytons? I just realized that i've cleared it before and it keeps showing back up. Not sure if it has to do with there being a capacitor on it or if its something else.

[Spawne32]

Does anyone else show a code for "open circuit - center loudspeaker" after replacing the dash speakers with Daytons? I just realized that i've cleared it before and it keeps showing back up. Not sure if it has to do with there being a capacitor on it or if its something else.

If you installed the capacitor incorrectly it will do that. I don't have any open circuit codes except for my sub which isnt wired directly to the OEM amp anymore.

[Spawne32]

So Smac, I put the new caps and inductors on and it does sound a lot better. The mid bass is a bit clearer on the PB's now. I guess it was trying to reproduce high notes at the same time as it was doing low notes? One thing I did confirm is with the tone control. I don't quite understand how the tone control works, but using the mid bass woofer test music, if you turn the tone control for "bass" all the way to max, the mid bass is actually a lot clearer and thumps the doors.

[Smac770]

Possibly. I wouldn't think the higher frequency stuff would make such an issue for the PB, but maybe. Moving more of the midrange to the Dayton no doubt helps that. Maybe the new reactive components (caps, inductors) simply helped balance the two with each other more. Glad to hear it's improved.

Were you able to get Audio Tools going and get an FFT sweep plotted to get a visual on frequency response in the car?

[Spawne32]

Possibly. I wouldn't think the higher frequency stuff would make such an issue for the PB, but maybe. Moving more of the midrange to the Dayton no doubt helps that. Maybe the new reactive components (caps, inductors) simply helped balance the two with each other more. Glad to hear it's improved.

Were you able to get Audio Tools going and get an FFT sweep plotted to get a visual on frequency response in the car?

I got audio tools working, but I'm still reading about how to use it properly. Tone control on the headunit still is a bit puzzling to me. It considers mid bass as part of the bass control?

[Smac770]

tone controls are just that. Bass is the low end, treble is the high end. It's not a subwoofer control. It just bumps up the bass end and whatever speakers are playing whatever frequency range impacted by that will do so. I think the MMI 3G with B&O got a subwoofer level control; my B&O does not have such a thing. The bass/treble controls are applying to the entire input signal, before it's cut up by the crossovers to the different output channels. Once you get Audio Tools rolling, you can watch it and move the tone controls and see how they impact the overall sound, not specific speakers per se.

[A4fuzz]

I know I've read it somewhere in the forums, but confirming that I want to switch polarity (positive and negative terminals) now that I have installed the rear deck subwoofer facing towards that roof?

[Smac770]

I would think you would, since you've made in out and out in now.

[Kolbenringe]

So for those who simply did a speaker swap and nothing else, will error codes pop up and is there a way to avoid it? I'm also trying to figure out the speaker setup, but not really sure how I want to approach this- ie: use a 2/3 way speaker in the doors or maintain the tweeter setups.

Any tips on any plug and play setups?

[A4fuzz]

I have an open circuit error but thats probably because something is wrong with my speaker. Simply replacing speakers wont cause an error unless you have something wired wrong or disconnected and even then its a soft code that only shows up on a VCDS scan and won't trigger a dash light.

[LGHT]

Used to be back into car audio back in the 90's before the wife and kids. Not looking to do anything drastic, but man this 13 A5 cabriolet (non b&o) stereo is probably the worse stock I've ever heard considering the car was upwards of $40k new. Hoping to keep the radio and controls in tack and just pop in a replacement amp and speakers if possible.

I believe I have the MMI premium package as the car does Bluetooth and has NAV. Since it's the wives car I'm not gonna bother with the sub, just want to put in some decent speakers in the front. I found some video's on what's needed to mount the 6.5's, but not sure if I can just drop in some speakers and an amp or if I need some type of module to maintain the stock stereo's first.

Ohh btw did DIY audio redo their forum seems like my 20 year old login doesn't work anymore lol..

[Kolbenringe]

Used to be back into car audio back in the 90's before the wife and kids. Not looking to do anything drastic, but man this 13 A5 cabriolet (non b&o) stereo is probably the worse stock I've ever heard considering the car was upwards of $40k new. Hoping to keep the radio and controls in tack and just pop in a replacement amp and speakers if possible.

I believe I have the MMI premium package as the car does Bluetooth and has NAV. Since it's the wives car I'm not gonna bother with the sub, just want to put in some decent speakers in the front. I found some video's on what's needed to mount the 6.5's, but not sure if I can just drop in some speakers and an amp or if I need some type of module to maintain the stock stereo's first.

Ohh btw did DIY audio redo their forum seems like my 20 year old login doesn't work anymore lol..

This is more or less what I want to do, but there's conflicting information on if even a speaker replacement will create problems with the MMI. It's shocking how bad these stereos are. It doesn't look like even high-quality, drop-in replacement speaker kits are available.

[LGHT]

This is more or less what I want to do, but there's conflicting information on if even a speaker replacement will create problems with the MMI. It's shocking how bad these stereos are. It doesn't look like even high-quality, drop-in replacement speaker kits are available.

Yeah, I've spent over an hour on the forms and it seems like most people have the B/O and there is very little content on cars that don't have it. Replacing speakers won't cause an issue with MMI, but it may cause a problem with the amp as the stock speakers seem to be 2ohm so I would probably won't to replace both amp and speakers at a minimum which opens up a big old can of worms...

[Kolbenringe]

Yeah, I've spent over an hour on the forms and it seems like most people have the B/O and there is very little content on cars that don't have it. Replacing speakers won't cause an issue with MMI, but it may cause a problem with the amp as the stock speakers seem to be 2ohm so I would probably won't to replace both amp and speakers at a minimum which opens up a big old can of worms...

Yeah, I saw people doing that conversion, but it's seriously not cost-effective, especially since it really doesn't deliver great sound. It's really appaling how bad the sound from my system is. I even considered a stand-alone system with parallel wiring to the doors with a headunit in the glove box, but this is way more work than it sounds, especially to integrate the factory unit so I still get some sound and don't get all sorts of stored codes.

[A4fuzz]

As stated previously in this post, I've installed the LC7i for the subwoofer signal. I tapped into one of the rear door speaker signals as it was generally accepted to be a full range signal (non B&O, MMI 3g). Is this still the accepted standard? You can "sum" multiple signals with the LC7i so I could add the factory subwoofer (disconnected) signal into the mix if it offered any benefit. I've been listening to things as is for two years now with no real complaints but it would be an easy thing to do if it provided a better low range signal. Maybe I'm missing out on some low end sound that the rear speaker signals don't have? Thoughts?

[Smac770]

If you're taking the speaker level outputs from the amplifier unit, none of them will be "full range". The standard sound system has 6 output channels and the only one with the subwoofer range is going to be the subwoofer output. And I wouldn't use a rear corner output over a front corner output as a source either. It's going to be more muted than the front signals unless you run an odd fade config.

[A4fuzz]

I'm not really sure why I went with the rear speaker back then but I was under the impression that the rear speaker signal was a full range and if I ever wanted to add another amplifier then I would have the input signal needed. At this point I have no intention of doing that but I will try connecting the subwoofer leads to the LC7i and see if anything changes. Oddly enough, the MMI "subwoofer" control dial DOES control the subwoofer output. I find this odd as the signal i used comes from the rear right speaker. I don't know if that makes sense but that's the way it is.

[Smac770]

It's only going to be maybe a 12dB/oct slope, not a brick wall. There's still going to be some signal level at the lower frequencies, but much reduced.

[Ceperon]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/album.php?albumid=3739

pics of the install. nothing fancy...but gives ya an idea.

I Jerry-rigged an adapter for a non-B/O A5 B8 to fit the original housing. Picture of housing measurement below. Depth of housing is 2 inches.

Disclaimer: quality is okay. By no means is this an upgrade per se. I needed to replace the woofer in plug-play fashion at an affordable price. Entire setup was about $150.

Followed Ian’s instructions from the quoted message or from here: https://guides.brit.co/guides/audi-a4a5-bang-olufsen-subwoofer-upgrade

THANK YOU SO F***** MUCH!

These are the parts I bought:
- DS18 SRW10.4 10" Shallow Car Subwoofer - 400 Watts, Single Voice Coil, 4 Ohms (1 Speaker) https://a.co/d/gwVPX6W

- Audiopipe APMBRING8 8.5 Plastic Speaker Spacer Rings - Pair https://a.co/d/aSdn4MB

Essentially, I was able to screw the housing into the outer most edge of the adapter by stacking them and using 2inch screws through the original housing holes through new screw holes in the plastic adapter. It isn’t a perfect fit from the inside but it’s a tight seal otherwise. Then, I was able to screw the new woofer onto the spacer - perfect fit and seal. The spacer provides ample depth (about 3.5 inches) and the diameter of the new adapter fits inside the deck hole. Doesn’t protrude to deep in the trunk. The original woofer mesh cap doesn’t fit, so the woofer is open faced.

Granted, I am no sound engineer, so don’t know if the setup with this woofer is “correct”. But for my casual music needs, it bumps.

I am working with an EBay vendor who will send me a custom spacer - will share progress and information when production ready.

Looking forward to your feedback, specially for woofer suggestions.

[Matt Devo]

so I've read thru pretty much this entire thread, and don't see much on what people with MMI3G+ and the standard sound system (no external amp) are doing in terms of aftermarket amplifiers - what's being used, where to install, and how to get low-level output signals from the stock HU. I have a B8.5 Allroad so plenty of room in the back corner, but all the factory wiring is up front...

edit: nm, figured out that I just need to tap into the stock speaker outputs at the tuner/amp module in the the rear - using a quadlock extension cable will make it nice and clean

[greginno]

Wow, reading this thread is an eye-opener on how little I know and understand about audio. A big thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge. Now, a question-

I have a 2011 B8 S4 with the non-B&O system and, like clockwork, all speakers began failing these past few months (minus the center dash). Upon removing the door card, and annihilating some clip mounts in the process, I discovered just how terrible the speakers are. So, now I'm looking to replace.

I've ordered the dash DIY kit from captain_video alongside 1x RS75-4 and 2x RS75-8. Throughout the thread, I see that the B&O system utilizes 4 Ohm door speakers, but I can't quite figure out what's in the non-B&O system. My speakers are so shredded and timeworn, I can't read the sticker specs to dig further. Could someone help me here? What is the resistance of the non-B&O door speakers?

[RPMtech147]

Holy old thread batman. 3 of the 4 main speakers and the subwoofer were blown in mine. I bought a set of adapters so I could install normal 5" or whatever size speakers in the door and the adapters were absolute junk. I installed them anyway but now there's zero bass response. Bleh. I use to mess with car audio when i was in my teens and 20's, now I cant stand spending money on car audio.

Do not buy these. They do not seal. They just took 3D printed rectangles and glued them in the rough shape of a circle with huge air gaps everywhere then I had to spend an hour opening up the hole so the speakers would seat properly. [evilmad]

https://www.amazon.com/Speaker-Adapter-Spacer-Rings-SAK108_55-1/dp/B01LXTM9JK?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A1T3AW1B06XC6M

[Matt Devo]

Wow, reading this thread is an eye-opener on how little I know and understand about audio. A big thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge. Now, a question-

I have a 2011 B8 S4 with the non-B&O system and, like clockwork, all speakers began failing these past few months (minus the center dash). Upon removing the door card, and annihilating some clip mounts in the process, I discovered just how terrible the speakers are. So, now I'm looking to replace.

I've ordered the dash DIY kit from captain_video alongside 1x RS75-4 and 2x RS75-8. Throughout the thread, I see that the B&O system utilizes 4 Ohm door speakers, but I can't quite figure out what's in the non-B&O system. My speakers are so shredded and timeworn, I can't read the sticker specs to dig further. Could someone help me here? What is the resistance of the non-B&O door speakers?

my B8.5 non-B&O:

- front tweeters: 8 ohm
- front woofers: 2 ohm
- center: 4 ohm
- rear tweeters: 4 ohm
- read woofers: 4 ohm
- sub: 2 ohm

door woofers and tweeters (both front/rear) wired in parallel on same amp channel

center, sub on own channels