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View Full Version : I thought you could just "drop in" a K04? My car doesn't like it. Ideas?



Spinnetti
06-06-2010, 03:01 PM
Starts, runs, and light cruise is fine. When the load it is up, the ecu shuts off the joy very suddenly... Ideas? Its just a dead stock 99 with a new K04 and a test pipe. I thought you could use the K04 as a drop in replacement, and though it wouldn't make full power, it would still work, but not in my car I guess :(

geeky
06-06-2010, 03:10 PM
What do you mean by the "ecu shuts off the joy suddenly"? Is it hesistating, stuttering, etc.

With the K04 you do also need to upgrade the DV. Go for the Bosch 710n DV, which is upgrade, still oem, and only $50 brand new. You need to give us more details so we can try and help what is going on with the car.

nagle10
06-06-2010, 03:14 PM
Check if your maf is facing the right direction and is plugged in.

bigblue
06-06-2010, 03:23 PM
I think you need bigger injectors just like on your b6, also if your going to upgrade the diverter buy a forge or something at least as nice. my 710n lasted 1 month of stage 2+ before it grenaded itself... All my friends run them fine but mine blew up? Anywho... I would just expect the car would know its overboosting or not have enough fuel to satisfy its needs?

Dynamite
06-06-2010, 03:42 PM
could you post a full list of mods and codes? without tunning then the k04 might be overboosting causing soft limp. try logging MAF and n75 duty cycles. when you say it shuts off the joy very suddenly do you mean it shuts the boost down, or dose it jerk/buck? what rev range, if you boot it from 2k in 3rd then what revs dose it start doing it at? if you start at 4k in 3rd then dose it do it? what boost is it getting?

Spinnetti
06-06-2010, 06:20 PM
Thanks for the comments. More info:

Totally stock 99 1.8T manual, Quattro.

Cat flange cracked and turbo was tired, so put a test pipe and new K04 in. No other mods.

Ran fine before except for an exhaust leak, and weak boost.

Runs great, but not exactly sure what the trigger is. It shuts off fuel, spark or both (not sure which) instantly (harsh jerk at power cutoff) when I hit some threshold or another. If I lift off the gas a touch, it turns the power back on. Its not speed, and boost off idle is great. It doesn't seem to be a particular RPM either. Maybe the rate of boost rise? If I ease into the gas, it will get up to normal speed just fine, and punching the throttle out of gear doesn't trigger it either.

Haven't logged anything yet, so not sure what the parms are reading, but it all worked ok till now.

I have a fully modded B6 GTRS with all he trimmings, and still run the stock 710 on that (for 50k miles so far), so I don't think thats a factor. MAF wasn't touched and everything is plugged in. Only wild card is I've only got the front o2 sensor in due to a defect in the test pipe, but my understanding is the second o2 is just a tattle for the first one anyway (besides, if these are like most other cars, the o2 goes open loop past a certain rpm anyway).

Thanks.

Spinnetti
06-06-2010, 06:21 PM
I think you need bigger injectors just like on your b6, also if your going to upgrade the diverter buy a forge or something at least as nice. my 710n lasted 1 month of stage 2+ before it grenaded itself... All my friends run them fine but mine blew up? Anywho... I would just expect the car would know its overboosting or not have enough fuel to satisfy its needs?

According to ECS, its supposed to be able to drop in without other mods (not at full power potential, but still supposed to work)

dh4life55
06-06-2010, 06:27 PM
you should get 225cc tt injectors tuning for it new spark plugs a uprated diverter valve and upgraded vacuum hoses k04 with stock tuning is pretty pointless

mikmot
06-06-2010, 06:28 PM
ive seen this scenario a few times.
compare your TIP - turbo inlet pipe with another persons audi.
make sure its not soft. Ive seen the TIP implode under increased load and then reform to its original shape, leaving no clue as to what is happening when you pop your hood. no codes, no CEL, no weird logs. Felt almost as if the throttle body was closing automatically.
If it its soft, try someone else's TIP to test it out. its a 30 min test.
Check it out and let me know.

Spinnetti
06-07-2010, 04:16 AM
ive seen this scenario a few times.
compare your TIP - turbo inlet pipe with another persons audi.
make sure its not soft. Ive seen the TIP implode under increased load and then reform to its original shape, leaving no clue as to what is happening when you pop your hood. no codes, no CEL, no weird logs. Felt almost as if the throttle body was closing automatically.
If it its soft, try someone else's TIP to test it out. its a 30 min test.
Check it out and let me know.

Hmmm.. That could be something. When I revved it up in the garage, there was no sign of deformation. Seems like (though I don't know for sure) that the ECU is cutting off. For a test, I just held my foot in it after it cut off, and it kinda stuttered like the ECU was giving some power, but like it was doing a partial ignition cut. PITA to get that thing in and out though. I have my old one from my B6 I could try I suppose..

dh4life55: This wasn't supposed to be a full mod, just a drop in. Its the wife's spare car. Mine is a B6 with a GT28RS.

geeky
06-07-2010, 04:36 AM
When were the spark plugs/coil packs replaced? are the plugs properly gapped? Almost seems like a misfire.

JEmm
06-07-2010, 07:40 AM
When were the spark plugs/coil packs replaced? are the plugs properly gapped? Almost seems like a misfire.

This. But my only hesitation with that is that if you have a B6 GTRS then I'm sure you'd know what a misfire feels like... Still sounds like a coil pack though. Because obviously whatever it is it's happening under boost and coil pack misses show themselves under heavy load. And I would still replace the dv even if your other car doesn't have a problem with it, every car/dv isn't the same.

seanj130
06-07-2010, 08:04 AM
I think with the information that he is giving logs will be required. When you old cat was clogged when you cracked the flanged, did you ever reset the codes from the o2 sensors that were prolly fried with it. But if you say that you are good on boost until you really lay into it, then that may not be the problem.

Spinnetti
06-07-2010, 05:34 PM
The feeling is the same as a big missfire with my GTRS, except it doesn't stop... on my B6, its wham and done, but this just cuts out until I let off the gas. I'm about 99% sure its the ECU cutting the power, just not sure why. Tonight, I tested pulling the air filter and leaving the box open to see if it was the TIP collapsing. I did confirm its not a particular RPM, but seems load dependent. I got it to do it at 2000 and 4000 RPM and other places too, but as long as I eased into it, it had no trouble at highway speed, and really pulls away nice from a stop. Very odd. This weekend, I'll log stuff, but I'm out of practice (been years). What channels should I log and looking for what?

Thanks!

A4Rob
06-07-2010, 05:38 PM
Your stock injectors will work just fine. Sounds like you just hit limp mode.

viceprp
06-07-2010, 07:00 PM
When my spark plugs were gapped wrong it did the same thing WOT but I had a flashing CEL ONLY WOT. Power came back when I eased into it.

JEmm
06-07-2010, 07:45 PM
Still think you should do the normal things, replace your dv and check coil packs/plugs.

mikmot
06-07-2010, 08:11 PM
so how did you check your tip?
did you try replacing it with another? does it feel soft?
a soft tip with collapse with or without an air filter.

codymack43
06-07-2010, 10:58 PM
The feeling is the same as a big missfire with my GTRS, except it doesn't stop... on my B6, its wham and done, but this just cuts out until I let off the gas. I'm about 99% sure its the ECU cutting the power, just not sure why. Tonight, I tested pulling the air filter and leaving the box open to see if it was the TIP collapsing. I did confirm its not a particular RPM, but seems load dependent. I got it to do it at 2000 and 4000 RPM and other places too, but as long as I eased into it, it had no trouble at highway speed, and really pulls away nice from a stop. Very odd. This weekend, I'll log stuff, but I'm out of practice (been years). What channels should I log and looking for what?

Thanks!

http://s384.photobucket.com/albums/oo285/TheMackOutlet/?action=view&current=IMG_0493.flv

Like this?
You're overboosting. I had something stuck in my wg, and was hitting too much boost for the stock ecu. If you hit more than 15psi your car will limp hard as a safety feature.
You need to get a tune for the k04

Spinnetti
06-08-2010, 04:26 AM
http://s384.photobucket.com/albums/oo285/TheMackOutlet/?action=view&current=IMG_0493.flv

Like this?
You're overboosting. I had something stuck in my wg, and was hitting too much boost for the stock ecu. If you hit more than 15psi your car will limp hard as a safety feature.
You need to get a tune for the k04

Not exactly... It hit like that, but if you sped up your video like 20 times, that was the frequency of it.... Again, the K04 is supposed to work without a tune. This is my spare, not my performance car. Could be overboost, but not sure why... wastegate adjustment maybe?

Spinnetti
06-08-2010, 04:27 AM
so how did you check your tip?
did you try replacing it with another? does it feel soft?
a soft tip with collapse with or without an air filter.

I didn't try replacing yet. Its not soft - very firm. Still not ruled out, but not a prime suspect yet.

Spinnetti
06-08-2010, 04:27 AM
Still think you should do the normal things, replace your dv and check coil packs/plugs.

While not a bad idea in general, all those don't generally go bad at once, when I happen to change the turbo.

JEmm
06-08-2010, 07:27 AM
Not exactly... It hit like that, but if you sped up your video like 20 times, that was the frequency of it.... Again, the K04 is supposed to work without a tune. This is my spare, not my performance car. Could be overboost, but not sure why... wastegate adjustment maybe?

If your overboosting it could be N71. Happened to me, replaced it and I was fine.


While not a bad idea in general, all those don't generally go bad at once, when I happen to change the turbo.

Obviously didn't mean they all went bad haha. I would log for misfires if your vagging it. No reason not to.

codymack43
06-08-2010, 12:03 PM
try going to a local giac / apr dealer and get a test tune. If that fixes it, you know it was just in tuning. If not, check into the ecs "race" n75 possibly

CrtchRktRcr
06-08-2010, 12:21 PM
My first guess would be plugs..but you said it didn't seem like a misfire. When the car shuts down does the cel flash? This sounds a LOT like the symptoms I was having when my ecu was going bad. Try borrowing someones ecu and see if that solves the problem.

ECS Tuning-Audi
06-08-2010, 12:56 PM
If you aren't chipped and you don't have a n75 race valve, simply stock everything check for what cylinders it is reporting misfire on. You should check plugs as well, a semi-bad plug might turn into a very bad plug when a few more CM3 of air is pushed into the cylinder from the slightly larger k04. Before you worry about chip tunes, etc - check the basics. No cel?

Spinnetti
06-08-2010, 06:24 PM
If you aren't chipped and you don't have a n75 race valve, simply stock everything check for what cylinders it is reporting misfire on. You should check plugs as well, a semi-bad plug might turn into a very bad plug when a few more CM3 of air is pushed into the cylinder from the slightly larger k04. Before you worry about chip tunes, etc - check the basics. No cel?

Exactly... I don't want to yank known good components until I know more, besides, throwing money at a problem just introduces more variables and wastes money. It will be a couple nights yet before I can log, but I will clear codes, drive/log... what channels should I log? (Vagcom). Due to a test pipe manufacturing flaw, I only have the front o2 sensor in at the moment. Could that be a factor? I still have the back one plugged in, but in free air. Haven't tried disconnecting yet (dang connector doesn't want to let go!). My assumption is that the rear o2 is just a tattle for the front one, but I don't have any functional books on this system. I'll also try disconnecting the rear one and try again...

Matt@JHM
06-08-2010, 06:42 PM
Your stock injectors will work just fine. Sounds like you just hit limp mode.

I would have to agree. The K04 may produce more boost than requested and throws you into limp mode. Check your codes for positive deviation, which means more boost was recorded than requested.

fltstone
06-09-2010, 01:57 AM
I'm fairly new to Audie but I recall something similar with my Conquest back in 88. As it turns out I was producing so much boost that my inter cooler hose would allow blow by. I would suggest check hose clamps. Hope this helps.

Mawhitey
06-09-2010, 06:37 AM
Fuel cut is whats happening by the sounds, get the codes read ASAP

ECS Tuning-Audi
06-09-2010, 06:54 AM
Exactly... I don't want to yank known good components until I know more, besides, throwing money at a problem just introduces more variables and wastes money. It will be a couple nights yet before I can log, but I will clear codes, drive/log... what channels should I log? (Vagcom). Due to a test pipe manufacturing flaw, I only have the front o2 sensor in at the moment. Could that be a factor? I still have the back one plugged in, but in free air. Haven't tried disconnecting yet (dang connector doesn't want to let go!). My assumption is that the rear o2 is just a tattle for the front one, but I don't have any functional books on this system. I'll also try disconnecting the rear one and try again...

You've got your rear 02 figured out properly. It doesn't tinker with fuel ratios but acts at a check for a catalytic converter. If you had a chip tune, most of them are available with a rear o2 delete. Without that file you will have a CEL for no rear o2 readings. And without a file you will have a CEL for no catalytic converter either.

Spinnetti
06-09-2010, 05:12 PM
You've got your rear 02 figured out properly. It doesn't tinker with fuel ratios but acts at a check for a catalytic converter. If you had a chip tune, most of them are available with a rear o2 delete. Without that file you will have a CEL for no rear o2 readings. And without a file you will have a CEL for no catalytic converter either.

Thanks for confirming. Not worried about cels. my other car has the light on all the time due to no cat, and removal of the SAI - annoying, but that's it.

Ok, I checked for error codes, and it does look like overboost and a N75 error (no other codes except the missing cat). I cleared the codes, ran again and got the same thing. Seems odd for it to fail just now though. I guess next steps is a new N75 and see what happens... Chris, can youi get me out one quick? I'll order through the site..

Thanks for all the comments and ideas from everybody. This sux, but if I can get it sorted, it will really breath some life into the car.

Matt@JHM
06-09-2010, 08:09 PM
Thanks for confirming. Not worried about cels. my other car has the light on all the time due to no cat, and removal of the SAI - annoying, but that's it.

Ok, I checked for error codes, and it does look like overboost and a N75 error (no other codes except the missing cat). I cleared the codes, ran again and got the same thing. Seems odd for it to fail just now though. I guess next steps is a new N75 and see what happens... Chris, can youi get me out one quick? I'll order through the site..

Thanks for all the comments and ideas from everybody. This sux, but if I can get it sorted, it will really breath some life into the car.

Make sure it is plugged in [:)] (I may have personal experience from that... hehe)

ECS Tuning-Audi
06-10-2010, 09:34 AM
Thanks for confirming. Not worried about cels. my other car has the light on all the time due to no cat, and removal of the SAI - annoying, but that's it.

Ok, I checked for error codes, and it does look like overboost and a N75 error (no other codes except the missing cat). I cleared the codes, ran again and got the same thing. Seems odd for it to fail just now though. I guess next steps is a new N75 and see what happens... Chris, can youi get me out one quick? I'll order through the site..

Thanks for all the comments and ideas from everybody. This sux, but if I can get it sorted, it will really breath some life into the car.

Yeah I can, shoot me your order reference ID in a PM and I'll make sure it gets out there.

Spinnetti
06-12-2010, 05:40 PM
Well, good news is, I figured it out! Bad news is its cuz I screwed up!. I pulled he N75 and cleaned it, then found that the pressure port blot on the turbo was loose. Doh! Tightened down, new clamps, bingo. All is well, but now boost is lower :(... Wife won't notice though :)
Thanks for all the advice...

ECS Tuning-Audi
06-14-2010, 08:53 AM
Glad to hear you've got it sorted out. Funny how the littlest thing can do so much!