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View Full Version : Help me build a b5 A4



p8nt
06-06-2010, 01:43 PM
I work as an account exec and drive about 600 miles a week. Although the 01 Civic I have currently has been a great car, I need something more fun to drive.

i was planning on a b5 S4, but the S4 folk quickly talked me out of that. Many of them did however suggest a tuned A4. The car has to be reliable and drivable first and foremost.

Im unsure what to do with the engine. This is not going to be tracked and I'm not looking for huge HP. 250hp would be great. So: If I opt for a 2001 with the K03s, what the most that turbo will produce? I understand Ill have a hard time getting to 250hp with the k03s, but I I can get close I could put that money towards suspension parts.

Or, should I look for a pre 2001 and go with a RP k04-015?

Hardware I had in mind was: TT225 injectors and MAF, Test pipe and cat back of your recommendation, FMIC and software to run it all.

Thanks for your advice in advance. I know there is a ton of info out there and I did search, just looking to consolidate all of it.

Clint

black99.5a4
06-06-2010, 01:50 PM
any of the ko3 cars, compared, are very much the same.. you might hit 170-180awhp on a fully modded aggressively tuned ko3 and that might be on the high side.

ko4, imo, the AEB cars have the most aggressive tuning for it in the form of GIACs PC-16 file. Even that, will only yield you 200-205.

If you want a solid 250awhp.

imo,

i'd go with a atp t25 manifold, garret gt2860, 440cc injectors, whatever MAF ur tuner says to use, FMIC (basically like the APR Stage 3+ kit, but with a tad bit more aggressive tuning)

You are looking at a heavy car with a very small turbo and a motor that doesnt flow near others of the same size.

njm23
06-06-2010, 01:50 PM
250whp? your not getting either of those unless you get a larger turbo (gt28 would get you there) andI would go for a 2001 since you can get a MAF-less tune and save yourself the hassle of an intake setup.

Seerlah
06-06-2010, 02:17 PM
What's your budget? You would first need to aquire a B5 that is in good condition. This would mostly depend on how the previous owner maintained the vehicle. And that "one woman owned vehicle" crap does not fly with the B5 A4. Simply using the wrong motor oil can be catastrophic on the engine. But once you do find a good B5 A4 (if you look in the classified section on here, most of us take imaculate care of our vehicles. that would be a good place to look), I would suggest a full frame t25 GT2860RS as mentioned above. It will grant you around the 250whp mark with great street driveability. FWIW, I plan on having this same setup in my vehicle by next summer.

mikmot
06-06-2010, 02:30 PM
Running anything bigger than a K series turbo gets pretty expensive quickly.
But if you REALLY want more than 210 wheel horsepower and you're considering going big turbo (bigger than K04), IMO, go all the way - meaning internals, 2871 or bigger.
But don't think I'm trying to convince you to go BAT.
You may be completely satisfied with an aggresive tuned K03.

Why don't you start off with simple bolt ons that you can still use in case you go bigger turbo.
Such as exhaust, DV, GIAC (they only charge you a small upgrade fee if you want to upgrade to K04 later on)
F/SMIC, pulleys, LWFW.

p8nt
06-06-2010, 04:09 PM
Great stuff guys, thanks for the insight. So I'm unrealistic with 250hp out of a k series. What is the most I'm going to hit with the mods I mentioned with the various k series. This is acutally good news because if there's not a big gain from k03 to k03s to k04 I can put that whloe debate to bed.

Thanks again for the help.

Dynamite
06-06-2010, 04:20 PM
250hp at the crank is doable with the k04, that will give you around 195awhp, the PC16 tune would be the cheapest way to get there. most people would go with an eliminator setup though, either gtrs or gt2871rs, they are just as easy to install and look stock still, but cost more and need more supporting mods and should get you around 300chp or 250awhp on an off the shelf tune.

stevejones19
06-06-2010, 04:46 PM
Is there a reason your picking the Audi A4? There are many other cars out there that could do it for cheaper. NOT trying to hate on these cars at all, just wondering why THIS as a base.

JEmm
06-06-2010, 04:51 PM
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2901711

This guy claims he got 258 whp on a k03... If you go all out on tuning it can be done but it's easier (and like the same price) to get a gt28 eliminator set up and build from there.

black99.5a4
06-06-2010, 04:54 PM
that is also a FWD car.

audi drivetrain loss is roughly 22-24%

biketsai
06-06-2010, 05:06 PM
Find a nice 01, then get a K04 with mods and call it a day.

Gaberossi
06-06-2010, 05:51 PM
if you got AWD then go GTRS it will give u 250awhp...FWD audi AEB with uni tuning runs 236 hp with K04 250 is reachable with race file and meth injection on a FWD audi a4, im getting the new maestro 7 suite for my car in a week or so i will get those number dialed down and all info will be posted...26psi on a k04 with maestro race gas tune and meth we should see some nice numbers for a k04

p8nt
06-06-2010, 06:17 PM
Two people here have now recommended 2001 model year. I know they came with the k03s (right?) but is there another benefit to this year? Some one mentioned a "MAF-less tune" ?

I thought i remember reading about the 00' and 01' having a more restrictive flowing head.

black99.5a4
06-06-2010, 06:19 PM
they have the small port heads, the 00 has the 20mm wrist pins, 01 has 19mm, which are far weaker then the 97-00 20mm wrist pinned rods.

imo, the 01 is no better then any other year, except the mafless tunes, but stock motor wise, you get much better out of an AEB car. They can take a bit more abuse and for longer. I like my 99.5, because I have the 00+ body/interior but have the AEB nDBW motor. My audi has a feel to it, the gas pedal is responsive, etc. It feels like you are driving a much better machine then my buddies 04 b6.

its just personal preference.

mikmot
06-06-2010, 06:42 PM
Two people here have now recommended 2001 model year. I know they came with the k03s (right?) but is there another benefit to this year? Some one mentioned a "MAF-less tune" ?

I thought i remember reading about the 00' and 01' having a more restrictive flowing head.

Unless you plan on going BAT, the difference between the small/big port heads have no effect on the peformance potential within the range of turbo choices you mentioned.
The same goes for the wrist pin size differences.
Some people seem to like the fact that the older AEB's have external waterpumps and easy to access thermostats, but IMO, how often do you change those?
The newer B5's run a more advanced ECU - meaning that sometimes diagnosis of engine problems can be easier, and ECU tuning options can vary. (btw, IMO, a MAFless tune is not necessary for the goals you mentioned above.)

IMHO, the only notable/important differences to 99.9% of all potential b5 buyers between the older and newer B5's are the differences in exterior styling (pre/face lift headlights/taillights) and interior radio/ac controls (i hate the prefacelift AC/radio... there i said it)..
And also quite important, as mentioned by someone above, is the difference in the way the car drives when comparing a DBW/nDBW (drive by wire/cable) car.
Some people like the smooth feeling of the DBW and those people may say the nDBW cars are jerky.
Others call the nDBW cars snappy and responsive and say that the DBW cars are numb.

In conclusion- go drive both newer and older B5s and make your own decision..

Seerlah
06-06-2010, 08:47 PM
Someone mentioned "Why the B5 A4?". And really, that is a good question. I adore my vehicle and plan on keeping it for a long time. But really, unless you actually know what it's like to own a B5 you should really consider different options. The B5 A4 is an incredibly fun car to drive, but you really need to know what it takes to be able to own one of these vehicles. Just saying[cool].

p8nt
06-07-2010, 03:31 AM
Someone mentioned "Why the B5 A4?". And really, that is a good question. I adore my vehicle and plan on keeping it for a long time. But really, unless you actually know what it's like to own a B5 you should really consider different options. The B5 A4 is an incredibly fun car to drive, but you really need to know what it takes to be able to own one of these vehicles. Just saying[cool].

Why don't you tell me why not an A4.

Seerlah
06-07-2010, 05:53 AM
These are great cars, but need attention. It isn't like you can change the oil periodically and expect to drive 600 miles per week without issues. Well, you can. But you would need to be a person whom pays immaculate condition to the vehicle. For example, I just ordered a new breather hose due to a boost leak. It's simple things like this that pop up. But all this can be avoided if you do some changes to the vehicle upon purchases.

1. Replace "ALL" hoses with silicone ones (I am replacing my breather hose with a silicone one)
2. Inspect all control arms and replace as necessary
3. Check all brake components and replace as necessary
4. Change fluids (oil, coolant, brake, rear diff, transmission). The only other important fluid I didn't change was my power steering fluid
5. Swap out to Hitachi/Beru ignition coils if you get an AWM

If you do this, you can drive your car 600 miles a week with no issues. But you will always need to keep in the back of your head that an issue will pop up. They are usually minor, like a wheel bearing, but it happens. I am just giving you fair warning before you commit to buying. But if you do decide to purchase, there wil be others like myself here willing to assist in any way we can. As I mentioned before, these cars are incredibly fun to drive (Quattro w/manual transmission) but have their quirks. You will learn them over time, and learn how to deal with them or avoid it altogether.

doubleu8
06-07-2010, 07:19 AM
I would NOT pick this car if I were driving 600 miles a week... maintenance on wear and tear items is going to get annoying and expensive.
If you keep the civic, then why not?!

Great community with alot of helpful people, if you like doing work yourself or are looking for a car to tinker with.

Gaberossi
06-07-2010, 11:19 AM
99.5 FTW![drive]

dcampana
06-07-2010, 03:11 PM
you can just buy my car;) hahaha

no seriously, with that amount of driving, stay with a ko4 and be reliable daily driver. the torque for daily driving is fun and should suffice coming from the civic...

htey are a blas to drive. i was an AE for a long while with this car, hence the 150k milage i have. was driving about the same as you a week, but stayed ko3s for that time frame.

its a great car and this forum is full of very knowledgable people. jsut know, there is much more amintenance on these car than that of a civic...