Where are the Stage 3 (K04 included) Tiptronic guys??

[MCT9891]

Any problems? anyone ever have to build the tranny?
I know we can handle k04's, but i've seen a handful of stage 3 tip guys.

I'm broke at the moment, but would look into bt in the future.

post some dyno's, 0-60 vids, etc...

Oh and no flaming by the 6MT guys saying I made the wrong choice going with tip, I already know that. [>_<]
but i'm attached to my car and would never sell.

[bmc333]

From what APR tells me - I'm only the second person in the entire US to have their Stage 3 Kit on a Tip. No issues at all so far - had it on for about 1000 miles now. I do plan to upgrade the tranny early next year tho.

[MCT9891]

what are you doing to it? full build or just the torque converter?

[marty was here]

fuffle, talk to me on thursday, ill have k04

[bmc333]

what are you doing to it? full build or just the torque converter?

Full build most likely

[starrkitten_13]

no problems on mine, installed May 09. GT28 not K04. no tranny upgrade yet. still running strong after nearly 15K miles.

dyno states "manual" but it's tiptronic :)

http://www.audizine.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5099

[viperdsa]

Starrkitten, is it the normal APR stage 3 kit? In your signature it says GT28RS, I'm pretty sure that the normal stage 3 kit is using a 2871R. That just has me a bit confused lol

[starrkitten_13]

i think mine was the original test mule for APR, my car spent almost a month at their facility in AL. from what i understand, the ECU's from the 2005.5/2006 are a bit different from the 2007/2008 models so the GT2871 was causing numerous CELs. switched it out to a GT28RS, ended up with just a bit less HP but still considerable gains. APR may have it figured out now, this was almost a year.
358HP isn't half-bad though :) it was almost 100 degrees the day it was dyno'd it here in Arizona. and keep in mind, we have shitty gas out here in the southwest, 93 octane is unavailable & 91 is barely that.

[MCT9891]

fuffle, talk to me on thursday, ill have k04

fuffle? lmao... and r u serious? you're letting me drive that shit right? =]

[MCT9891]

no problems on mine, installed May 09. GT28 not K04. no tranny upgrade yet. still running strong after nearly 15K miles.

dyno states "manual" but it's tiptronic :)

wow 15k miles is great... but i would think it would be more than 241 awhp?

[starrkitten_13]

wow 15k miles is great... but i would think it would be more than 241 awhp?

Since our cars are not all Quattro or all FWD, awhp isn't necessarily the only or most accurate measure for comparison. For instance, per Audi, the 2.0T is 200hp, no? Is that at the wheel or at the crank? But Audi does not publish separate data for FWD vs. Quattro or perhaps I've missed this information somewhere along the line. This is why the MAHA dyno provides the corrected power calculation, taking into consideration drive train loss, which must be accounted for on AWD vehicles such as ours. I'm hard pressed to believe I'm only getting a 41hp gain over stock :)
Here is an interesting read on the MAHA dyno...

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3965266

[eastwick897]

wow 15k miles is great... but i would think it would be more than 241 awhp?

241 sounds correct. People on these boards constantly post up dyno plots of there stock turbo setups with various bolts ons and claim they are making 275hp. In reality thats to the crank. I was Revo stg2+ with all the bolt ons you can have on a stock KO3 car and when my car was dynoed showing raw numbers it only made 180whp. People consistently mis-judge wheel horspower and crank horsepower on the B7 boards. If hes making 241awhp that is a considerable gain in power in comparison to stock turbo vehicle.

Disclaimer: I have two dyno plots from two different locations proving a stage 2+ car will only make around 180awhp on pump 93.

[wootwoot]

241 sounds correct. People on these boards constantly post up dyno plots of there stock turbo setups with various bolts ons and claim they are making 275hp. In reality thats to the crank. I was Revo stg2+ with all the bolt ons you can have on a stock KO3 car and when my car was dynoed showing raw numbers it only made 180whp. People consistently mis-judge wheel horspower and crank horsepower on the B7 boards. If hes making 241awhp that is a considerable gain in power in comparison to stock turbo vehicle.

Disclaimer: I have two dyno plots from two different locations proving a stage 2+ car will only make around 180awhp on pump 93.

Can you post those dynos? I can add them to the official dyno thread.

[eastwick897]

Search "My Gt3071r build" and look towards the later posts one of the members posted it larger and clearer making it easier to read.

[Sal_B7]

^Yeah i have noticed people posting some high numbers on their stage 2+ set ups. My best run was 294 whp 270 wtq on the 93 oct tune back in March of last year. I thought that was pretty awesome. Had some small issues but got those taken care of.

[eskimopunk]

Since our cars are not all Quattro or all FWD, awhp isn't necessarily the only or most accurate measure for comparison. For instance, per Audi, the 2.0T is 200hp, no? Is that at the wheel or at the crank? But Audi does not publish separate data for FWD vs. Quattro or perhaps I've missed this information somewhere along the line.

It's at the crank, always at the crank. Otherwise there would be different numbers for fwd and quattro. So you have about an 80-100 (max) whp gain, but a gain of 150 hp at the crank. That torque curve is pretty nice holding pretty much all the way to 5.5k.

It'd be nice to see some 0-60 runs, 0-100, 60-80, etc. [up]

[starrkitten_13]

It's at the crank, always at the crank.

exactly. i was just posing the question...and i may have had a beer or two when i posted, was a little angsty last night. my bad ;)

headed out to a couple of track days for the next 2 weekends with other esteemed members of Audizine, will work on getting some videos posted up for y'all.

[jimrobbington]

My stage 2 car ran 201 whp on 100oct no FMIC. I find it really hard to believe that you ran 180 whp on stage 2+. There had to be something wrong with your car. This is on a very conservative dyno, they f'd up the first run, so the first recorder run was already hot, I know I lost at least 5-10 whp just from heat loss from that first run, because as proof, I lost 5-10 whp on every consecutive run, leaving me around 180 whp on my hottest, last run.

[eastwick897]

My stage 2 car ran 201 whp on 100oct no FMIC. I find it really hard to believe that you ran 180 whp on stage 2+. There had to be something wrong with your car. This is on a very conservative dyno, they f'd up the first run, so the first recorder run was already hot, I know I lost at least 5-10 whp just from heat loss from that first run, because as proof, I lost 5-10 whp on every consecutive run, leaving me around 180 whp on my hottest, last run.

Absolutely nothing wrong with my car. I'm not going to argue this because i've seen the numbers and I know for a fact my car was in perfect running condition. It is what it is the dyno doesn't lie and I did it on two different dynos both yielding very similar results (Autospeeds Mustang dyno and KMD's MAHA dyno) both very known dynos in the tuning world for very accurate numbers.

[Sal_B7]

Jim you have to take into consideration that you used 100 oct and Eastwick used 93. I'm assuming you (Jim) used the 100 oct file, which would give you the extra HP.

[bmc333]

i think mine was the original test mule for APR, my car spent almost a month at their facility in AL. from what i understand, the ECU's from the 2005.5/2006 are a bit different from the 2007/2008 models so the GT2871 was causing numerous CELs. switched it out to a GT28RS, ended up with just a bit less HP but still considerable gains. APR may have it figured out now, this was almost a year.
358HP isn't half-bad though :) it was almost 100 degrees the day it was dyno'd it here in Arizona. and keep in mind, we have shitty gas out here in the southwest, 93 octane is unavailable & 91 is barely that.

Being the only other Tip with APR stage III - its nice to meet you! I have the GT 2871 kit on my 07 - works great too. The numbers APR show on their site for that kit are 375 HP and 352 torque (crank) - http://www.goapr.com/products/stage3_long20t.html - I still need to get a dyno but I have no reason to doubt those figures and I'm just curious to see what kind of AWHP I'm putting down.

[MCT9891]

Being the only other Tip with APR stage III - its nice to meet you! I have the GT 2871 kit on my 07 - works great too. The numbers APR show on their site for that kit are 375 HP and 352 torque (crank) - http://www.goapr.com/products/stage3_long20t.html - I still need to get a dyno but I have no reason to doubt those figures and I'm just curious to see what kind of AWHP I'm putting down.

This is what i meant in the first place. If APR says 375 crank hp, how are you only getting 240 awhp?

i doubt the drivetrain loss and tiptronic difference (over manual) is over 130 hp... and apr , if I'm not mistaken, claims 375 crank on 93 octane.

[marty was here]

eastwick, im curious, hows your carbon buildup?

[jimrobbington]

This is what i meant in the first place. If APR says 375 crank hp, how are you only getting 240 awhp?

i doubt the drivetrain loss and tiptronic difference (over manual) is over 130 hp... and apr , if I'm not mistaken, claims 375 crank on 93 octane.

You can lose up to 35% power through the drivetrain on an automatic with all wheel drive. Which is almost exactly 35% I believe it, but it's sad.

[Sal_B7]

91 oct. and 93 oct are a difference in hp numbers.

[Operator]

Just a bump to see what other numbers TIP folk, have put up. And the possibility of 35% DTL really hurts my feelings!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PNB7]

Just to give you an idea of tiptronic quattro audi drivetrain loss. My friend Ryan's V10 S6 with software, full exhaust and air filters put down 399whp and our shop V10 R8 Rtronic with race exhaust, software and airbox was only like 460ish whp. My VR6T is almost that powerful running 17.5 pounds of boost so thats sad. Yes they are NA but based on crank numbers + added numbers the drivetrain loss is substantial. I was shocked with the S6 and he honestly sold it three days later as a result. I never dyno'd my K04 when I had it on my tip but these drivetrain losses seem pretty believable.

[Operator]

Wow, he really just up and sold his car. Even if the dyno number wasn't what he was expecting, if he enjoyed the car beforehand, that seems like a bold move!

[camoto]

Wow, he really just up and sold his car. Even if the dyno number wasn't what he was expecting, if he enjoyed the car beforehand, that seems like a bold move!
...and this brings me to my point. If you are going strictly for numbers, then a Tiptronic is not what you should be sinking your effort into. IMHO.

[PNB7]

Yes his car was sick too. Rotiform BLQ forged matte black. Lowered hard on coilovers, a bunch of matte black work, chaanged up the grille....I can't sway people sometimes:

[bmc333]

Agreed - I never did it "for the numbers" but for my own personal amusement/entertainment.

[Operator]

Yes his car was sick too. Rotiform BLQ forged matte black. Lowered hard on coilovers, a bunch of matte black work, chaanged up the grille....I can't sway people sometimes:

What did he swap to?

camoto & bmc333 did you guys go through the various Stages (I, II, II+, then III) and if so was the change to III more noticable the going from stock to stage I?

[camoto]

What did he swap to?

camoto & bmc333 did you guys go through the various Stages (I, II, II+, then III) and if so was the change to III more noticable the going from stock to stage I?

Yes, I walked the more expensive road. Stage 1, Stage 2, Stage 2+, then Stage 3. In hindsight, I am actually glad I did. Each time I have added more, I get the same grin back. I don't think 2+ to 3 was quite as impressive as Stock to 1, but it was definitely substantial. Then again, I am K04 and not really BT.

I don't regret a single thing about what I have done with my car. And I certainly don't regret getting an automatic when I am sitting in hours of Boston traffic. I commuted for 15 years in various standards and I don't know what the hell I was thinking.

[PNB7]

What did he swap to?

camoto & bmc333 did you guys go through the various Stages (I, II, II+, then III) and if so was the change to III more noticable the going from stock to stage I?

Funny story, he's a moron.....love him but he's an idiot. He went to Mercedes and bought C63 and called me on the test drive to say the seats were a bit tight on him (he's really tall) to which I told him well make sure it's comfortable or dont buy it. Of course he bought it, drove it for three days and realized the seats weren't "stretching" like he hoped and that of course they didnt fit. Meanwhile the car lost 30% of it's value in 3 days and when he went to take it back he had an enormous fit. Long story short they ended up getting him into a Range Rover sport for the meantime until the C63 Black Series arrives.

[bmc333]

I also went the more expensive route and don't regret it for a second (experiencing all the stages). I'd say the jump from 2+ to 3 was just as noticeable (in higher rpms) as the initial entry into stage 1 for me since I have the APR Stage 3 set up. Over 3500 rpms the car is a completely different animal now - its so sick on the highway.

[EUROTEK//S4]

would love to see some videos of some b7 a4 tip ko4/gt cars

[Operator]

would love to see some videos of some b7 a4 tip ko4/gt cars

If and when I get there, I'll try to make sure and take some.

[audi8844]

If and when I get there, I'll try to make sure and take some.

Oh... so you are tip. You are still going K0R, correct?

[DRAKLORE]

I hope he is lol, hes got my baby haha

[Operator]

Oh... so you are tip. You are still going K0R, correct?

Yeh, though it looks like it may be a bit before they are able to send it out. But I'll be ready once it hits my doorstep.

[A4 Centaur]

Hey, my buddy has the APR BT kit and a Tiptronic and dynoed at only around 285 HP at the wheels. We were all very let down. I have a MT and when I get the funds, I am going BT with a purpose! I hate slushboxes even more now!

[Operator]

People need to realize where the TIP is starting from though......... Stock DYNO by europeancar is 146awhp and 147TQ. Stage 1 was (93oct) 196awhp, 223TQ. So even a 285awhp (and our altitude up here probably doesn't help) dyno for a stage III TIP is an 89awhp inscrease. I plan to run w/m so I can run the 100oct file, to squeeze as much power out as possible. And next year I may move onto the RAI DP for a few extra HP.

[Auditude2.0T]

From what APR tells me - I'm only the second person in the entire US to have their Stage 3 Kit on a Tip. No issues at all so far - had it on for about 1000 miles now. I do plan to upgrade the tranny early next year tho.

Yeah i was the first lol

[Operator]

What are some of your 1/4 times?

[Q-Ball]

Curious to hear everyone's stories and experience. Debating if I'll do it...

[camoto]

Hey, my buddy has the APR BT kit and a Tiptronic and dynoed at only around 285 HP at the wheels. We were all very let down. I have a MT and when I get the funds, I am going BT with a purpose! I hate slushboxes even more now!
I am still blown away by this kind of perspective. If you want "numbers" then why the F would you ever start modding an AUTOMATIC transmission car? Of course you are going to be disappointed.

If you have a tip, and you want a little more oomph, or you like the smiles that mods bring, then by all means, join the (small) crowd.

I sit in UNGODLY bumper to bumper traffic and have for 15+ years. I did the first five in a manual and vowed never to do it again after I got my first automatic. I don't regret having an auto one bit. I do miss the connected feeling of driving a standard, but if I want to feel connected, I'll take the bike out--(not during commuting hours). I like to be comfortable when I am sitting in traffic. On the rare occasion during my commute that the traffic is not there, I still get to play a little bit with the extra pull from my mods.

[wootwoot]

I am still blown away by this kind of perspective. If you want "numbers" then why the F would you ever start modding an AUTOMATIC transmission car? Of course you are going to be disappointed.

I am blown away by your kind of perspective. I could name off a number of automatic transmission cars that put down serious power. The best part is they never accidentally miss a gear or bounce off the rev limiter. Automatics have consistency that few humans could match.

[Operator]

I think he meant more so our car. Not "all" automatic cars (see atx Supra's).

[Operator]

Just wondering if anyone other than starkitten, has gotten a dyno done on their stage III TIP.

[AnthonyS]

So has anyone actually invested in an aftermarket torque converter and dyno'd before and after?

I seriously think a lot is wrong with the torque converter selection in our cars starting with horrible vibration at idle in drive.

I'm considering a converter swap before stage III... if I do stage III at all.

I too drive in wonderful city traffic.... Dallas to be exact. I sometimes miss my manual but not in traffic.

[bmc333]

I've got about 20k miles on my stock Tip tranny now w/ the Stage III and still no issues. I'm know I'd be able to put down more AWHP w/ an upgraded converter but just don't have the money for that right now. It would be a good investment for sure.

[Operator]

Most aren't made for a TIP. Not sure if one from a S4 TIP would work?!?

[Operator]

Just wondering if anyone other than starkitten, has gotten a dyno done on their stage III TIP.

I venture, there probably aren't more than a handful of us, so the odds are slim. Just trying to get an idea of what others have been able to do.

[camoto]

Most aren't made for a TIP. Not sure if one from a S4 TIP would work?!?
517 Trans makes one and so does Level 10:
http://www.levelten.com/Audi_Transmissions_s/30.htm
http://www.517trans.com/

I have been contemplating this too. I have been meaning to take the time to bring my car down there for the full-boat tranny upgrade but it's going to be a PIA because it's a 3-5 day job and about 6 hours away for me.

[Jake2.0T]

Starrkitten, where did you get your car dynoed at in AZ? i went to a shop in Tempe and they said the Tiptronic transmissions could only handle 330hp at the crank before it started tearing the transmission apart... you have no problems yet? send me a PM please. I'd love to come look at your car some time and check it out. Ive wanted a bigger turbo, but after what that shop said i held off on that and was only going to get GIAC tuning, but if you arent having any problems i may invest in the GT28 turbo as well.

[A4 Centaur]

http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=308432

http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=1612323

http://iptperformancetransmissions.wordpress.com/

Looks like level10 or IPT might be the guys to go with if you have a Tiptronic and want reliable power.

Glad I have a 6MT! WOOT!

[Operator]

Starrkitten, where did you get your car dynoed at in AZ? i went to a shop in Tempe and they said the Tiptronic transmissions could only handle 330hp at the crank before it started tearing the transmission apart... you have no problems yet? send me a PM please. I'd love to come look at your car some time and check it out. Ive wanted a bigger turbo, but after what that shop said i held off on that and was only going to get GIAC tuning, but if you arent having any problems i may invest in the GT28 turbo as well.

It's more so the torque you need to be worried about if anything. HP wise I'd be fine with going up to 325awhp which is alot more than 330chp. But that's EFR range. I don't think a GT28 would be too much for your car.

[multiphrenic]

With all this talk about torque killing tip, I don't think I've read about anyone actually having any problems, either with the K04s or GT28. I don't think I saw any tips with a GT2871R but I could be wrong. I guess there's hope after all?

[Teeguzi]

Here is the dyno sheet and vid for my K04 Tip B7 A4, mods are in sig.

I've put about 30K miles (3.5 years) on my car after the K04 mods plus a shit load of track days with no problems at all. These numbers are AWHP and AWTQ done @ 034.

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/234_034.jpg



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF4BQsTksmU


Sorry video quality kinda sux; was still getting the hang of editing vids.


Cheers! [a4]

[Operator]

With all this talk about torque killing tip, I don't think I've read about anyone actually having any problems, either with the K04s or GT28. I don't think I saw any tips with a GT2871R but I could be wrong. I guess there's hope after all?

bmc333 - GT2871R
starrkitten_13 - GT28RS
Auditude2.0T - GT2871R

[A4 Centaur]

Hey, anyone have updated KO4 with 6 speed tip users?

[camoto]

updated? You mean the APR S3 kit versus the old APR K04 kit?

[baldy]

I have an OEM S3 K04 that I got from CTS Turbo and had the rest of the needed install stuff fabbed up. On mine, we used a 2.5" aluminum turbo outlet pipe as opposed to the 2" or whatever it is stock. Spools up faster, and flows about 20-37 g/s more than requested (about 85 g/s more than the K03),
Had it in the car since December. Lots of torque, and the car is quite a bit faster than the K03. Tranny is holding up just fine.

[Operator]

We are a dying breed. bmc333 is out, along with starkitten and camato. Getting lonely.....

[Jhad]

We are a dying breed. bmc333 is out, along with starkitten and camato. Getting lonely.....

You can add me to the list- its been about 4 months on the cts K04, and so far the tip is doing quite well.

[baldy]

Is anyone running a Unitronic tune on their k04/kor with a tip?

[camoto]

We are a dying breed. bmc333 is out, along with starkitten and camato. Getting lonely.....
Camato?? LOL! sounds like a variation of canned tomato soup!

[Operator]

I may or may not have been on my iPhone. I'll just blame that [;)]

[430hps4]

We are a dying breed. bmc333 is out, along with starkitten and camato. Getting lonely.....

For what it's worth... I bought Starkitten's APR Stage 3 TIP May 2012. I haven't had any issues with the transmission. I recently installed a Devil's Own Stage 2 kit, and run the APR 93oct file. Still no issues, unless running a whole lot smoother when its 110+ degrees everyday is an issue...? :)

[Operator]

For what it's worth... I bought Starkitten's APR Stage 3 TIP May 2012. I haven't had any issues with the transmission. I recently installed a Devil's Own Stage 2 kit, and run the APR 93oct file. Still no issues, unless running a whole lot smoother when its 110+ degrees everyday is an issue...? :)

Nice to see folks are still out there! Now quit hiding!!!!

[groundround]

I have been running the apr s3 k04 for about half a year now and love it.