Prepping the B7 for track days

[carguy138]

Hello everyone. I attended my first driving event this past winter and had an absolute blast. I am signing up for the next event coming up in June and this is a tarmac HPDE. So far my B7 has the mods in my sig with RS4 pedals on the way. My goal is to not competitively race my B7 but to prep it for track duty at HPDE held by the audi club. I plan to eventually purchase a second car strictly for track purposes.

At the moment I have a set of AT Italia 17 wheels with my wintersport M3's, and the OEM 17's with a new set of goodyear LS2s. I am not looking to go all out on prepping the car because it is still a daily driver. I was planning on doing suspension this summer and was considering a set of H&Rs with Bilstein sport shocks (combo on ECS for around $700). I am now strongly whether I should spend more and go for the PSS9s. I don't care about lowering the ride height for "style" and only looking at suspension upgrades in terms of performance. I was also planning on selling the OEM wheels and all season tires in order to get a set of wheels with either summer or R compounds, to use during the summer and at driving events. Upon reconsideration I am trying to decide whether it would be worth it to just sell the tires and get some better tires and put them on the OEM wheels, or go ahead an purchase some VMRs in 18in with proper tires. I understand that the 17s have less un-sprung weight and will perform better but in all reality I am not at the point where I need to be concerned about shaving tenths off lap times.

Lastly I was planning on getting Hawk HPS brake pads, SS brake lines, and brake fluid with a higher boiling point.

Prior to the event I will change the engine oil and give the car a once over to make sure everything is in good shape. Can anyone who has tracking experience comment on what would be beneficial to making the B7 better on the track without breaking the bank so to speak.

I have gotten very good at heel toe double clutch downshifting which I know will be beneficial. I also understand that plenty of people size up their skills and believe they need plenty of hardware to prep the car yet their driving skills are somewhat lacking. Anyways anyone who has tracking experience with their B7, I would really appreciate any comments or advise based on what they learned/experienced.

Regards,

Will

[Mike@PureMS]

As far as making the car better, there's lots that can be done. Generally if you're a novice, I recommend learning with the car as it came from the factory. These cars are amazing capable right out of the box, and it gives you the opportunity to improve and learn to drive what you have. As you improve, you can begin to make changes, and actually feel how those changes make the car better, or sometimes worse.

For track driving, beginning with better brakes and tires is always a safe place to start. Once you've firmly got a grasp of the dynamics of the vehicle at that stage, then you can start experimenting with other things like power, handling, or aerodynamics.

Hope that helps, and have a great time!

[RedS-line]

1. tires- summer* they wear fast so maybe burn off your existing rubber first
2. brakes- hawk
3. suspension- non sport shocks suck, even the sport suspension is weak at the track
4. intercooler- heatsoak is a b*tch on the track!
5. good shoes

[B72.0tsline]

what states of New England are you in? I've tried to find a tracking even for Audi in MA area and couldn't find one. when i had my M3 there is bmw cca i can attend....

[Goped220]

I go with a few clubs Cartct and Motorsports NE. They go to Lime Lock, Watkins Glen, Poconos And Monticello. It would be nice to see some Audi's out there. I am usual the only Audi.

Cartct:
http://www.cartct.com/index1.shtml

Motorsports NE:
http://www.motorsportsne.com/

I haven't gone with Tyrol but they do track days:
http://www.tyrolsport.com/index.php?p=page&page_id=racing

[audimeister]

1. Brakes- HPS are really not enough for the track, even when I'm being pretty mellow with braking. Try HP+ or better. Consider upgrading to S4 rotors and carrier brackets. Recommend flushing fluid after each track day. Don't forget the clutch as well.

2. Suspension- Factory sport can be pretty good (I've had Streetsports, PSS9's, and factory sport.) B5 spring caps will drop the front slightly creating a little extra negative camber up front, and an RS4 rear sway bar will also help the car be a bit closer to neutral. The car will still understeer, just not as badly.

3. Engine- fresh, high quality synthetic oil. Lots of guys like to remove all the plastic shrouds from the engine bay, and open the hood between sessions to cool things off. Also, don't go straight into pit on a hot lap. If you can manage one more slow lap (off the racing line) with the white flag, take it. If not, make a lap r two of the pits before shutting the car off. Your engine and turbo will thank you.

4. Seat belt- go get a kid's car seat seat belt lock. Then, you can lock the lap portion of your seat belt across your lap, and stay a bit more secure behind the wheel and not have to use the wheel to hold yourself in place. Schroth also makes four point harnesses that clip into the factory mounting points, but they are a bit expensive, and some tracks/organizations may not allow them.

5. Consider a simple video camera/mount system. That way, you (and your instructors) can review what you are doing, and make improvements.

With the car set up like this, I could hang pretty comfortably with the fast group at my last track day.

[rings65]

I'd go with Mike's recommendation and learn to drive the car as close to stock as you can. The great thing about that is that there are inherent safety checks built into the car in that it will let you know when you are pushing it too far. The tires will squeal, the front end will push, etc., so you know that you are close to the edge and may need to back off a little. Aftermarket mods allow you to go a lot faster, but there isn't as much of a cushion to let you know you are close to that edge. When you lose grip (for example), it happens quickly and you can get yourself in trouble in a hurry.

Enjoy yourself - it can be addicting (and of course expensive)!

[aaron1085]

Will, I look forward to maybe doing the track day at NH motor speedway in June, did u sign up already?

[carguy138]

Will, I look forward to maybe doing the track day at NH motor speedway in June, did u sign up already?

I haven't signed up yet but looking to sign up later this week after I make sure I can take vacation time at work. It is at NH speedway on that wed. and thursday. Did you attend the Jan 23/24 event at Team O'Reilly Rally School in Dalton, hosted by the North Atlantic Audi Club? I also live in NH.

In regards to all the responses I received, I am very impressed and appreciative for the advice. From what I have read from this thread and other research here is what I have decided to do...

I am going to stick with the stock rubber and wear those off. Reason being is that R compounds or soft summers will exacerbate any handling problems and will seriously overwhelm the stock NON s-line suspension. In order to properly take advantage of soft rubber I most definitely need a better suspension setup with an emphasis on greater compression and dampening. I am still in decision mode between a set of PSS9's, koni FSDs/Eibachs, and H&R/Bilsteins. The stock OEM suspension feels too soft at the limit and gets unpredictable at higher speeds while cornering. I will most likely purchase some sort of suspension prior the the event.

Next I am looking into a quality DOT SA2005 helmet and proper driving shoes. I plan to do many events in the future so I will not skimp on these.

Engine- I currently have the APR programing but plan to put it in the stock mode until the instructors deem that HP/torque is my limiting factor in going faster, hence after I get experience. Once I do bump it up, I will leave it in the 91 map for the following reason. The KO3 is already at the limit of getting overworked and track time will only put even greater wear on it. Running at 91 even with 93 octane fuel in the tank will be easier on the turbo due to less boost pressure in comparison to the 93 map. I plan to change the engine oil the weekend prior to the event and after. I strongly agree with trying to do a cool down lap as I can see the benefit in allowing the engine/turbo/transmission components to gradually cool down. Great advice!

Brakes- I will get a set of HP+ pads and suitable brake fluid. Still researching this topic a bit.

Seat belts- I am looking into getting a Schroth 4 point harness for both the drivers seat and the passenger seat. The club requires the driver and passenger to have identical safety harnesses (i.e. seat belts).

Video camera- My friend that attended the last event with me already has a camera with mount so I am covered in that area.

In summary I am looking to keep the car mostly stock with the addition of suspension and a 4 point harness. Sticky rubber is expensive and totally unnecessary for me at this point and may actually impede any progress. I will have enough to think about and the increased limit with increased snap release tendencies with R compounds are not something I should be worrying about at this point. Can't wait!


EDIT- Upon more research here is what I am going to purchase.

Hawk HP+ pads front and rear. Fronts are $145.85, Rears are $114.91.
Super Blue Brake Fluid. 2 bottles at $13.95 each
Motive European Power Bleeder $49.95 http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B7_A4-Quattro-2.0T/Braking/Tools/ES9747/ES3474/
Brake Caliper Piston Tool $39.95 http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B7_A4-Quattro-2.0T/Braking/Tools/ES9747/ES9747/
Total of $361.64

Schroth Quickfit 4 Point harness in red $235 each. getting one for drivers and passengers seat.

I will hold off on suspension for the time being but I think that should be enough for now. Time to start looking up DIYs for doing brake pads and fluid flush. Shouldn't be too much different than swapping pads/flushing fluid on a dirt bike which I've done numerous times.

I am looking at the Piloti Prototipo Motorsports Driving Shoes. Anyone have experience with these? Also in regards to helmets, any recommendations? I am unsure as to whether people typically use an open or full face helmet.
Anyways thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback.

[aaron1085]

Will, a buddy of mine is an instructor with Audi Car Club and has been hounding me to sign up for the June event, its like $315 I think, but goes up to $400 if sign up after April 1st.

I just ordered some H&R springs and will be getting some Koni's I think within a month or so along with some new summer wheels. That being said, I'll run the stock 17's with all-season tires for the track; this will be my first track day so really do want to try it out without breaking the bank. How many miles do you have on your A4 and where did you get the APR chip?

How do you like the RS4 sway bar? I have sport suspension and was wondering how you like that?

I live just north of Keene.

[RVT]

Sounds like folks have you on track for your play day, but I will stress to you to get your brakes flushed if you have not done so in the last 6 months. Do not trust old fluids to a track event, period. Stock brakes will be the first thing you notice give out at the track. Fade shows up quickly after only a few aggressive laps. This brings uncertainty into your runs as you try to anticipate how much grab has been lost.
Many here advocate bigger rotors, but it is not the only possibility. I have run very similarly weighted cars on track with smaller rotors than our stock Audi, so I already view them as pretty beefy overall. Pads, fluids, and braided lines will firm up any car for the occasional play day. Your stock pads are where the fade comes from, as they don't like the high temps of a track, and track pads will grip like a bugger on glowing rotors but stink on cold days around town, so you need to study and pick your compounds according to the conditions you plan on.
Have fun out there! [:D]

V

[Glassnpowder98]

Sounds like you've figured out what you want, and I have to say you've made some good decisions. The biggest problem I've had on the track is with the brakes. I went with EBC yellowstuff pads (supposed to be a good track/street pad), Motul 600 fluid, and goodrich SS lines. I was happy with everything but the yellowstuff pads... They suck. I put three track days on them and they started to shred and fall apart, not to mention they started fading after about 10-15 minutes on the track. I've heard from a prior instructor that the HP+ pads work well on the track, but can be a little noisy for street driving. That will be up to you if you want to change them out every time you head to the track.

As for the suspension, I'd definitely go for the PSS9s. I have FK konigsport coilovers on my car and have been happy with them, but I drove the AWE car on the track with PSS9s and have to say they felt more compliant, plus they're easier to adjust if you want to make some adjustments to your cornering dynamics.

When it comes to tires, you don't need R compounds (they're not really recommended for beginners anyways), but I would at least look into a decent summer performance tire. I used BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KDW 2's which lasted 7 track days and 2 summers before they started to chunk and need replacement. When they start wearing down a little, they get a little road noise, but I didn't find it to be too bad. I'd definitely recommend those tires.

Finally, once you start figuring out how to get around the track quickly, I'd look into getting either the JHM or Stasis 4:1 center diff. That was definitely one of my most favorite mods as it allows you to get on the power a lot earlier when exiting turns and cut down on the understeer while exiting turns. If you have any questions, let me know!

[aaron1085]

june 2 and 3 2011.....HPDE at Loudon, NH. who is in?!?! OP?

[nnnick]

Hawk HPS is a terrible suggestion for the track - I roasted mine in one day, and I wasn't even going that hard on them - I honestly think they were worse than the OEM pads for track duty (I at least got 3 track days out of the OEM pads).

I <3 tracking my b7! It's addicting isn't it?

[Kim]

If you are doing something you find that you like and will be doing for a while I would second Mike's suggestion and learn the limits of the car and go to a driving/advanced course school. Personally I have gone to 6 or 7 from the lame (NASCAR Speed experience) to the good and great ones, BMW Racing school and Skip barber. The last one I attended was in Germany, presided over no other than rally legend Walter Rohrl. I found his course to be very helpful especially in driving a quattro and a turbocharged car as you will have to learn not only to heel and toe, but to left foot brake so that you can keep the revs up while braking so you don't lose the spool.

Do not hesitate to improve yourself before the car since you will carry this with you in your next several cars.

In terms of car upgrades I always go for the basics first. Depending on the type of Racetrack, you can overload the stock brakes very easily. Remember that the Audi is very heavily front biased and heavy as well so you can easily boil the brake fluid. I personally have had a frightening experience when I almost slammed into my friends car when I pressed on my brakes and it was boiling so much that there was nothing but air. If this happens to you (hopefully it doesn't or with less dire consequences) you will have to bleed your brakes after every track day.

One thing about suspension is that no matter how hard you think your suspension is, it is very likely that you will still find it very soft when you get to the track. Because of this you should probably really go for coilovers so you can adjust it during these weekends. Tires are actually a must, but not completely necessary as it all depends as what would make the track day fun for you. If you are not time attack mode then you can use regular tires. I have some friends in fact who bring a set of less grippy tires since they like to play around with the car also. In the end, just be safe and install the mods that will allow you to do what YOU want to do there. In the end its all about having fun.

[Der Konig]

Good info in here, I have been reading up on this too since I'm tracking this summer. The harness solution someone posted is a good way to plant yourself in the seats a little better so may want to look into that.