Anybody with an MTM that will run some logs for us? VAG (VCDS), Gtech RR or SS, Dyno

[rktskicar]

or Pbox would be OK.

Thanks,
Bruce

[NWS4Guy]

Several have had it for months now and none have given more than the Gtech that Voltron did for us. I don't think the target consumer who gets the MTM believes in a Dyno or VDCS.

[aherl83c6h]

i'm planning a dyno shortly with my 430 hp mtm module... but the problem is that the dynoer asked me 150$ for one run, and a total of 250$ for 2 runs (w/out the module)... that's way too much for me, at the moment... and this is the only dynoer with awd in the nearby....

[rktskicar]

i'm planning a dyno shortly with my 430 hp mtm module... but the problem is that the dynoer asked me 150$ for one run, and a total of 250$ for 2 runs (w/out the module)... that's way too much for me, at the moment... and this is the only dynoer with awd in the nearby....

Ouch! $150 pretty steep for 1 run.

Bruce

[mtmspeed]

i'm planning a dyno shortly with my 430 hp mtm module... but the problem is that the dynoer asked me 150$ for one run, and a total of 250$ for 2 runs (w/out the module)... that's way too much for me, at the moment... and this is the only dynoer with awd in the nearby....
Granted I am not in Italy but we run 3 pulls for 60 for before info and another 3 pulls for 60 for after mods...Different markets but that seems really high.

[NWS4Guy]

Granted I am not in Italy but we run 3 pulls for 60 for before info and another 3 pulls for 60 for after mods...Different markets but that seems really high.

So are you stating that you have installed the MTM on a B8 S4, and have these dyno pulls, or just that you do this for all MTM installs and haven't done any B8 S4's?

[Keith@APR]

So are you stating that you have installed the MTM on a B8 S4, and have these dyno pulls, or just that you do this for all MTM installs and haven't done any B8 S4's?

I'm pretty sure he was just referencing his pricing.

I too would love to see another MTM dyno.

[L0U]

keith, did you see the awe mustang dyno run. 312whp which bodes well for aprs 316 hub dyno uncorrected. And my all wheel dynojet run of 295 under really poor cooling conditions. that 312 mustang run is huge numbers. (not sure how the other 2 mustang runs came up with 285 only....better baseline perhaps to show gains on equipment, or poor cooling, or new motor with lots of friction)

[Keith@APR]

keith, did you see the awe mustang dyno run. 312whp which bodes well for aprs 316 hub dyno uncorrected. And my all wheel dynojet run of 295 under really poor cooling conditions. that 312 mustang run is huge numbers. (not sure how the other 2 mustang runs came up with 285 only....better baseline perhaps to show gains on equipment, or poor cooling, or new motor with lots of friction)

Yes I did! I, for one, have always been confident in our dyno data. That's why we posted the original graph in the first place.

FWIW, AWE has publicly claimed that they calibrate their dyno to read more like a Dynojet so you may have to take their info with a grain of salt.

[mtmspeed]

So are you stating that you have installed the MTM on a B8 S4, and have these dyno pulls, or just that you do this for all MTM installs and haven't done any B8 S4's?

That is for the Dyno shop we use(dynojet)...I don't have any pulls for the B8S4 or we wouldn't be having all these threads about MTM...:^)

I will say however, MTM products have never come up short on the dyno, they always post conservative numbers(regardless of whatever we start with) I would love to get the before and after to see the total net gain though!

[notjoefromnh]

That is for the Dyno shop we use(dynojet)...I don't have any pulls for the B8S4 or we wouldn't be having all these threads about MTM...:^)

I will say however, MTM products have never come up short on the dyno, they always post conservative numbers(regardless of whatever we start with) I would love to get the before and after to see the total net gain though!

I'm not a marketing guru but I think if you networked yourself with a local S4 and either gave them or split your cost on the MTM upgrade and provided dyno pulls you would probably sell more. That is if what you said about solid gains is correct. More sold will allow you to get the word out and help solve this issue with MTM potentially selling snake oil... MTM and your shop could change the game with just one local customer and a DYNO...

Seems fishy that with the length of time this upgrade has been out and the caliber of people it is marketed too there is a lack of real world data.

At this point no one really knows how well this MTM performs as there has been no real local, customer reviews with dyno graphs. There is just no solid data.

[mtmspeed]

I'm not a marketing guru but I think if you networked yourself with a local S4 and either gave them or split your cost on the MTM upgrade and provided dyno pulls you would probably sell more. That is if what you said about solid gains is correct. More sold will allow you to get the word out and help solve this issue with MTM potentially selling snake oil... MTM and your shop could change the game with just one local customer and a DYNO...

Seems fishy that with the length of time this upgrade has been out and the caliber of people it is marketed too there is a lack of real world data.

At this point no one really knows how well this MTM performs as there has been no real local, customer reviews with dyno graphs. There is just no solid data.
I have offered to pay for before/after pulls and no one has yet to accept. It's not my vehicle nor my business practice to put someones car on a dyno w/o their consent. I'm not going to split the cost of the software to sell someone a product. I offer performance products but it is NOT our primary business objective, we are a service facility. I am NOT the MTM representative and it is not my job to provide these things. MTMs products "snake oil"?? Yeah...Their not a recent upstart, but a notable German tuning Firm. As Stated before by people running this software, The power is plentiful, they're happy with it, and they didn't care about the dyno #s....wait for the alerl83 to go thru break-in time and then he will post numbers(hopefully)

[notjoefromnh]

I have offered to pay for before/after pulls and no one has yet to accept. It's not my vehicle nor my business practice to put someones car on a dyno w/o their consent. I'm not going to split the cost of the software to sell someone a product. I offer performance products but it is NOT our primary business objective, we are a service facility. I am NOT the MTM representative and it is not my job to provide these things. MTMs products "snake oil"?? Yeah...Their not a recent upstart, but a notable German tuning Firm. As Stated before by people running this software, The power is plentiful, they're happy with it, and they didn't care about the dyno #s....wait for the alerl83 to go thru break-in time and then he will post numbers(hopefully)

What's the point of selling a product you don't wish to promote? I understand your a service shop, most companies that provide these upgrades are service shops.

IMO your an MTM representative if you sell an MTM product. Just as a shop selling APR or Garret is a rep for those companies as they are selling their products. For shit sake, your name has MTM in it.

My suggestion is nothing more than a suggestion.

[mtmspeed]

What's the point of selling a product you don't wish to promote? I understand your a service shop, most companies that provide these upgrades are service shops.

For shit sake, your name has MTM in it.

.

Don't wish to promote? I'm arguing with you aren't I? :^)
You don't "talk" someone into buying $4000 worth of software...if they want it, I have it. AND BELIEVE IN IT.
MTM speed isn't the name of a company its just a handle, I have MTM products on my cars.
Those responsible for importing the goods have the need to spend MooLah to advertise it, I am but a portal for customers. For instance...It is Keith and Arins Job to uphold their good name in the publics eye, not the job of APR dealer XYZ.

[L0U]

^^^agreed. but then again the guy that went 13.0 flat at the drag strip stock....sets down the guantlet for a mtm car to do better...and hopefully not .1 second better.

I would expect .5 seconds for 4 grand...and I just don't see that happening.

[BKNYCS4]

^^^agreed. but then again the guy that went 13.0 flat at the drag strip stock....sets down the guantlet for a mtm car to do better...and hopefully not .1 second better.

I would expect .5 seconds for 4 grand...and I just don't see that happening.

Yea i hope it does... otherwise its pointless to get..... AND WHEN ARE OTHER TUNERS BRINGING OUT THEIR STUFF?!?!?!?? I think its about time [drive]

[NWS4Guy]

Yea i hope it does... otherwise its pointless to get..... AND WHEN ARE OTHER TUNERS BRINGING OUT THEIR STUFF?!?!?!?? I think its about time [drive]

When it's ready.

Miracle Max (from The Princess Bride) "You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles."

[rktskicar]

When it's ready.

Miracle Max (from The Princess Bride) "You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles."

The Princess Bride is such a classic, lol!
"You have six fingers on your right hand"

Bruce

[NWS4Guy]

Bruce, I knew I liked for reasons beyond your car choices ;) Something told me others here would identify with my choice of metaphors.

[L0U]

never trust a cicilian.....especially in matters involving death! ha

[notjoefromnh]

Don't wish to promote? I'm arguing with you aren't I? :^)
You don't "talk" someone into buying $4000 worth of software...if they want it, I have it. AND BELIEVE IN IT.
MTM speed isn't the name of a company its just a handle, I have MTM products on my cars.
Those responsible for importing the goods have the need to spend MooLah to advertise it, I am but a portal for customers. For instance...It is Keith and Arins Job to uphold their good name in the publics eye, not the job of APR dealer XYZ.


I don't know how many people are going to buy $4,000 performance software on a whim. One thinks there would be a bit more than just a "trust us" attitude.

I have an idea, free MTM mods for all of us. Then we can see what this is all about.

[mtmspeed]

I don't know how many people are going to buy $4,000 performance software on a whim. One thinks there would be a bit more than just a "trust us" attitude.

I have an idea, free MTM mods for all of us. Then we can see what this is all about.

good one....[rolleyes]

[switchface]

never trust a cicilian.....especially in matters involving death! ha

well played sir.

[DucatiSim]

I don't think this thread's going anywhere. Looks like everyone will just have to play the waiting game. Based on the graphs I've seen with S4 hp flattening out at the top end, hopefully future aftermarket tunes will unlock the boost settings at this range. Regardless, I still think $4k is still ridiculously expensive for a tune.

Wait and see.

Until then, "Have fun storming the castle!!!"

[DucatiSim]

I don't think this thread's going anywhere. Looks like everyone will just have to play the waiting game. Based on the graphs I've seen with S4 hp flattening out at the top end, hopefully future aftermarket tunes will unlock the boost settings at this range. Regardless, I still think $4k is still ridiculously expensive for a tune.

Wait and see.

Until then, "Have fun storming the castle!!!"

[DucatiSim]

I don't think this thread's going anywhere. Looks like everyone will just have to play the waiting game. Based on the graphs I've seen with S4 hp flattening out at the top end, hopefully future aftermarket tunes will unlock the boost settings at this range. Regardless, I still think $4k is still ridiculously expensive for a tune.

Wait and see.

Until then, "Have fun storming the castle!!!"

[NWS4Guy]

I don't think this thread's going anywhere. Looks like everyone will just have to play the waiting game. Based on the graphs I've seen with S4 hp flattening out at the top end, hopefully future aftermarket tunes will unlock the boost settings at this range. Regardless, I still think $4k is still ridiculously expensive for a tune.

Wait and see.

Until then, "Have fun storming the castle!!!"

One of the US tuners said in a post here (as a teaser I am sure) that the top end flattening and tapering off of HP changes a good bit with added boost.

[L0U]

http://www.sportec.ch/files/images/articles/medium/8f368279b70c06b6c6aa3f1eb9d169f9.jpeg

sportec, mtm, abt are all using the same piggyback. You can see 97hp is not being added. This shows a 53 kw gain or 70hp. at the crank, so 55ish at the wheels. S4 should pull 350 at the wheels (on a good day) on the dyno I had 293 on.

Another point of data. 70hp gain on 333 would be 403hp....stasis is claiming 400 to 410 with a tune (750$) and an exhaust. All the tunes might play out very similar to this sportec graph. While the stock car is all over at 5700, the tune will pull to 6700, adding 70hp at that point.

[mtmspeed]

for the bigillenth time, no one anywhere has claimed a 97 hp gain, just a 430 total or 317Kw....all three, MTM, Sportec, And Abt use MAHA dynos. Interesting enough that Abt sportline has factory ties but yet they also released their product as a cantronic unit. I can't believe someone who is capable of swiping THREE straight DTM titles from Hans Werner Aulfrecht would stoop so low to use "the lowest form of tuning" on their street products.


Go ahead...start flaming me!....but in two weeks we'll see the first flash!

[aherl83c6h]

I gave up to the DYNO with my MTM module... no way i'm going to spend 150€ for 2 runs... i'll keep searching for a cheaper one nearby.. In the meantime, i'll tell you this : this morning I went to Italy Monza Autodromo, there was a speedday for german cars : 40 mins on the circuit... during this period, i've had the opportunity to confront with many other cars...keep in mind that most of the cars on track had big exahust, etc..... i don't think there was a single stock car : i run at my best : 100 RON fuel (shell v-power), only me on board (60 kg), and removed spare, crick, and everything i could to save weigth

335i **-> nope... has big exahust, so i imagine some chip too, but no way, i pulled hard on him.
M3 coupe, actual model : exact same speed.... i pulled more from low speed, he pulled more at higer...
porsche carrera 4S : i encountered 2 of them : one was my very same speed, he coulnd't manage to pull on me... the other pulled on me (slowly)... i managed to talk to the first 4S guy after the run, he told me that his cas was stock..don't know the second

hope this helped

[notjoefromnh]

for the bigillenth time, no one anywhere has claimed a 97 hp gain, just a 430 total or 317Kw....all three, MTM, Sportec, And Abt use MAHA dynos. Interesting enough that Abt sportline has factory ties but yet they also released their product as a cantronic unit. I can't believe someone who is capable of swiping THREE straight DTM titles from Hans Werner Aulfrecht would stoop so low to use "the lowest form of tuning" on their street products.


Go ahead...start flaming me!....but in two weeks we'll see the first flash!

eh...

Wait until May and we'll have all the answers but I don't see this chip really taking off

[rktskicar]

eh...

Wait until May and we'll have all the answers but I don't see this chip really taking off

What happens in May? You never had a chipped car?

Bruce

[notjoefromnh]

What happens in May? You never had a chipped car?

Bruce

I'm assuming that APR, GIAC, REVO UniTronic will have their performance mod's completed by then, if not at least news of them and expectations. Since they are native US companies reviews/dynos/graphs will be more common. Not to mention the price point should be more attainable.

Hopefully then we can begin to see the potential of this car. IMO a piggy back is no replacement for a software rewrite. Although you can send all sorts of information to the cars computer your still bound by stock software limitations.

I've had APR and Giac chips on two past 1.8t's and a 2.0t A4.

[rktskicar]

I'm assuming that APR, GIAC, REVO UniTronic will have their performance mod's completed by then, if not at least news of them and expectations. Since they are native US companies reviews/dynos/graphs will be more common. Not to mention the price point should be more attainable.

Hopefully then we can begin to see the potential of this car. IMO a piggy back is no replacement for a software rewrite. Although you can send all sorts of information to the cars computer your still bound by stock software limitations.

I've had APR and Giac chips on two past 1.8t's and a 2.0t A4.

I see. From your previous post before this one, it sounded like to me that you doubted the merits of chips. It appears that you doubt the merits of piggyback chips. I too ran APR, GIAC, and ASP chips on my last car (B5 S4).

Bruce

[notjoefromnh]

I see. From your previous post before this one, it sounded like to me that you doubted the merits of chips. It appears that you doubt the merits of piggyback chips. I too ran APR, GIAC, and ASP chips on my last car (B5 S4).

Bruce

Kindaof... I'm not saying piggybacks are completely ineffective, they show HP gains. It's only when you actually re-flash the ECU you can begin tunning the car. I expect to see some different results once these other companies open the floodgates with a software re-flash.

Am I skeptical of MTM's claim of 430? Of course but thats only because I'm a hard data kind of guy and MTM is lacking that, at least on our side of the pond.

[rktskicar]

Kindaof... I'm not saying piggybacks are completely ineffective, they show HP gains. It's only when you actually re-flash the ECU you can begin tunning the car. I expect to see some different results once these other companies open the floodgates with a software re-flash.

Am I skeptical of MTM's claim of 430? Of course but thats only because I'm a hard data kind of guy and MTM is lacking that, at least on our side of the pond.

As I am an engineer (hard data guy by default) this is why I posted this thread. I personally feel that the MTM piggyback should have some decent gains, but have not found anybody yet to with some hard data. I have offered to process their logs if they are VCDS (VAG), Gtech RR, or Pbox logs to get WHP.

Bruce

[kwikwi]

I'm sorry to say this, but why someone willing to pay $4000 for a piggyback would not spend 150-250$ to dyno they're car ?

[notjoefromnh]

I'm sorry to say this, but why someone willing to pay $4000 for a piggyback would not spend 150-250$ to dyno they're car ?

Bottom line, months after the release and no one with any real reviews or dyno. I think MTM price screwed themselves, they are just not selling enough...

[aherl83c6h]

I'm sorry to say this, but why someone willing to pay $4000 for a piggyback would not spend 150-250$ to dyno they're car ?

with that reasoning, you'll never end spending money... you must give a clear stop... it's even a questione of principles...

[kwikwi]

with that reasoning, you'll never end spending money... you must give a clear stop... it's even a questione of principles...

The reasoning here is about the fact that, at first, I wouldn't spent that amount of money on this tricky MTM peace of equipment. With that in mind, If someone is excited enough to get it, one would be excited to dyno they’re car with and without the piggyback to show the world how this was a clever investment.

Here In my country/state, It costs so much on income taxes and on goods that 150$-$250 is a no-brainer on a 4000 $ product.

Sounds reasonable!

[aherl83c6h]

That’s your opinion, and i deeply respect it. I ask you do the same vs. mine. Here is my wish list of things to buy for my car. Each one of them, taken alone, should be a “no-brainer” according to your reasoning. Put them together, and you will find your wife waving the banck/credit card bill in one hand, and your baggage in the other :

Mmi & gauge carbon trims : 600$
Cold air intake system (stratmosphere) : 400$
Adam rotors coloured brake disks : 400$
Rieger skirts & valence : 200 – 400 $
Complete exhaust system : around 1.800$, but you can divide it in smaller steps
OZ lightweight rims : 2000$
Turbo boost gauge : 300$

I can go on indefinitly if this is not enough...

[L0U]

The reasoning here is about the fact that, at first, I wouldn't spent that amount of money on this tricky MTM peace of equipment. With that in mind, If someone is excited enough to get it, one would be excited to dyno they’re car with and without the piggyback to show the world how this was a clever investment.

Here In my country/state, It costs so much on income taxes and on goods that 150$-$250 is a no-brainer on a 4000 $ product.

Sounds reasonable!

This brings up a good point. It leads one to believe that the kit installation was fabricated, or at least some reasonable doubt is involved. Eventually someone in the world will buy this kit and run a dyno. With chip tunes right around the corner though, maybe the mtm kit will be forgotten alltogether in north america.

[kwikwi]

aherl83c6h, I did not want to get to personal whit this.
-
The thing is that I just want to ring some bells, if anyone else, on earth, on any Audi forum that has the MTM piggy back on his or her B8S4, please respond to us. The fact of dynoing the car with or without the piggy back on the same dyno, would give the community some answers to the value of this product. It would also give the owner of the car a tangible proof and something to put in the pedigree of the car for resale value.

[aherl83c6h]

that's Ok.. end discussion... believe me, i really wanted to do this....last year, when i dynoed my A4 b8 3.2, the same place asked me 75$ for a run... now it's doubled.... there's no way i'm going to solve his economic problems....
as for the "resale ticket" value, i really don't think that a dyno would be any use... when the time comes, i think i'll remove the modole and throw it away (see my other post on the 1.500$ MTM asks just to update the VIN in the module)...

[riegeraudi]

Question really is will the tune affect or accelerate the carbon buildup issue? You may want to pay attention to this during your oil changes.