why no new intake

[Azeroth]

ok so i've read that the stock intake is just as good as an aftermarket intake, like evoms or carbonio, and actually you might lose some power if you get a new cold air intake. but why is this? seems to me like a cold air intake would be better than stock if anything, even though audi gives you a good intake. plus i like the cold air intake sound better. any insight?

[SEXICÄN]

how do you get cold air into the intake? if you remove the airbox you allow the heat of the engine to go into a "CAI" and basically defeats the purpose of a actual CAI.

i don't have exact graphs and charts to show this, but i'm sure others with have stuff...

[Azeroth]

so the cai doesnt take that hot air and cool it? why do so many people have them if that is the case

[SEXICÄN]

because they sound better

[Azeroth]

gr i really want the sound, but if i'm trying to build performance then i shouldn't downgrade... ok thanks again as always sexican

[SEXICÄN]

I have a Carbonio and i can honestly say i don't notice even 1+hp. The thing i do hear is the "BOV" sound....

I personally say if you can find the intake for DIRTY cheap, buy it, but i wouldn't buy a new one...

just my opinion

[ThatA4T]

you wont notice an increase, but at the same time you most likely wont notice a decrease in power

[Siggiepop]

There is no intake on the market that is better than stock only way to measure intake temps is to log. Also we don't have a "CAI" we have a ram intake. Open your hood and you'll notice it sources from the grill. Honestly don't waste the $
hope this helps its a topic that always comes up =)


The below was from A4ringedONE8T who talked directly to Keith @ APR discussed back in 2006


As far as HP gains the dyno is very inefficient for testing intakes. Because air flow, alot of it, is needed to test the intakes, and yes more than the fans create, it is hard to show a gain from the intake. The way APR "shows" there gains with the intake is using a vagcom. The stock intake, under the MAF channel with vagcom, flows 200 grams/second. With the Carbonio the MAF was showing readings of 250 grams/second which is an obvious air flow increase! Keith was talking very quickly about all of this on top of picking his brain on about everything I was looking at today so the numbers may be slightly different. I do know the difference was 50 grams/second (I believe this was the unit he described) and the Carbonio added about 1/5 more flow! Hope this helps some of you out with your decisions.

[Azeroth]

well looks like i'll be sticking with stock [:D] thanks for the info very helpful

[Quattro]

gsg has a full CAI, but requires a FMIC.

[Siggiepop]

Chances are you wont find a "dyno graph" of any "CAI" because... Im quoting someone but I forgot their username


The performance of a cold air intake is greatly influenced by the quantity and velocity of airflow around its inlet. Testing the effectiveness of an intake on a dyno has the main shortcoming that during a run on a dyno, the air available for the engine to breath has neither the volume nor speed that exists in real world driving consitions (over the same run period).

Placing a large fan in front of a dyno fails to achieve two key requirements for a good test

1) A fan cannot replicate the quantity or velocity of air that enters the intake during a real world test run.

2) A fan cannot accelerate its airflow at a rate that matches the increasing vehicle and engine speeds during an on track test.


Azeroth just get a better free flow filter K/N and call it a day.

[$lick]

There is no intake on the market that is better than stock only way to measure intake temps is to log. Also we don't have a "CAI" we have a ram intake. Open your hood and you'll notice it sources from the grill. Honestly don't waste the $
hope this helps its a topic that always comes up =)


The below was from A4ringedONE8T who talked directly to Keith @ APR discussed back in 2006

the dude you quoted doesnt know his math. it would actually be a 25% increase, not 20%. the original airflow amount is 200 grams/ second, so a 50 grams/ second increase is 1/4 or 25% [:p]

not that the extra 5% would make any noticeable difference, but whatever

as Siggiepop stated above, get a high flow, drop-in air filter and you can also get a turbo inlet hose from 034 motorsports (about $75 i believe) that has a larger diameter and is smooth, not corrugated like the stock one. that should help increase airflow by the increase in volume and the ease by which it can be drawn into the motor

[Siggiepop]

yeah his math is off but besides that point is there is no "dyno proven gains" with any aftermarket intake. Just to show that dynos are not a good way to measure intake efficiency. Just don't want Azeroth going off wasting his $ if performance is what he is after

[jimrobbington]

1. You WILL lose power by adding just a cone filter. I have done it.
2. I have had Carbonio, loved the sound, but highly doubt it added or lost power. The heat shield was good enough, the look was purty, the sound was amazing. I sold it for extra money towards coilovers, and now being back at stock, I do not feel like I lost power. BUT, I do feel like the torque curve has changed. With the Carbonio, it felt like boost kicked in a little quicker, and without it, the curve feels smoother. Slightly less powerful on the "butt dyno"
3. Most people on most cars are able to have a "true" CAI: it pulls air from underneath the engine, usually in the bumper, where heat is non existent while car is moving. This is not possible in our cars, since there is an intercooler inside each side of the bumper where the filter needs to go, thus negating the space needed for such an application.
4. There is only one (that I have ever seen) such "true" CAI for our cars, by GSG. You do need a FMIC, only because it opens up the space inside the bumper where the filter goes. I do not know if there is any sort of proven tests or numbers of any sort as to whether this works better than any other intake available, BUT, I would assume from my experience, that this would be the only one with true gains.
5. There is nothing that compares to the sound of a CAI. I love it. I was sad to see/hear it go.

/rant

[jimrobbington]

My question is: If I had a good FMIC, would it make the power loss from just an intake(for the sound) non existent? Or is that immediate heat soak irrepairable?

side note: isn't it weird how typing your face off about something you feel strongly about makes you feel so much better?

[jimrobbington]

Finally, after reading through a few threads, came upon this proof of the GSG CAI:


This is the FMIC /w customers intake:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/element256/GsG/StockSMICvsGSGFMICIntake.jpg

This is the FMIC /w GsG CAI
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/element256/GsG/StockSMICvsGSGFMICCAI01.jpg

Meaning, with this intake, this shows there are actually gains from this intake: about 6hp, 5tq. Then again, you are paying over 300 bucks for that power gain, and all you get is a pipe that's bent just right and your average cone filter.

[Charles]

I got a 3", 90 degree mandrel bent pipe, a 3">2.5" adapter (for the turbo compressor inlet connection), a 3" coupler (to attach the pipe to the MAF), then attached the filter to the MAF. I then got some cardboard and mocked up a heatshield. Bought some thin sheet metal and cut out my traced pattern. I was able to leave the "ram air" stock piping too. Cost me about 60 bucks all together.
I didn't feel any increase, nor did I feel a loss. I did however get an awesome sounding car.

[jimrobbington]

I got a 3", 90 degree mandrel bent pipe, a 3">2.5" adapter (for the turbo compressor inlet connection), a 3" coupler (to attach the pipe to the MAF), then attached the filter to the MAF. I then got some cardboard and mocked up a heatshield. Bought some thin sheet metal and cut out my traced pattern. I was able to leave the "ram air" stock piping too. Cost me about 60 bucks all together.
I didn't feel any increase, nor did I feel a loss. I did however get an awesome sounding car.

Now I am thinking about trying something like this. From the looks of the GSG pipe, I don't see why a similar thing can't be made from silicone fittings, and pre-bent pipes. I think the only way that their setup would be worth the money iis if it were ceramic coated or something, to keep the heat off the pipe too.

[jimrobbington]

OP, just cuz I like this thread, I brought your rep back into the green for you!

[Stea1th]

can't see other then if there is a air restriction, that a intake causes power increase.

When the air gets sucked in..it's going through the turbo which will heat the air up
then goes through a intercooler, then goes into your engine.

[RandyQUATTRO]

Have carbonio and just as others have said, this is purely for the sound and nice looking piece of carbon fiber under the hood. The butt dyno does not feel any different from stock intake - just has that BOV (blow off valve) sound. I got a good deal on mine, so it was a no brainer, but I might reconsider if I had to pay full price.

[jimrobbington]

You changed your name and avatar too! What's up?

[Charles]

can't see other then if there is a air restriction, that a intake causes power increase.

When the air gets sucked in..it's going through the turbo which will heat the air up
then goes through a intercooler, then goes into your engine.

This has been addressed too. APR basically said, the cooler your air entering the turbo, the less it will get heated, thusly lowering the temps even more after the intercooler.

A very simple example would be:

70 degree air > turbo heats to 90 > intercooler cools to 50
50 degree air > turbo heats to 70 > intercooler cools to 30.

So, basically, the issue is the temp of the air, at this point. Adding a K&N to a stock box won't alter the temp of the air coming in...just free up more air, which at this point, won't matter too much as the stock airbox is already pretty efficient. If you can find a way to chill the air, more than the stock box can, you're going to free up some power. Basically, that's why intercooler misters work.

Jim...I picked up the silicone couplers at Pep Boys (I turned the brand name under so you couldn't read it ;) ) and ordered a K&N cone off the net for like 35 bucks. I got my 3" pipe from a diesel supply store, and honestly, the bend radius was a bit too large. I want to say it was a 6" radius. I think a 3" radius would work perfectly as I had to trim a lot of mine to fit and by doing that, it started to eat into the actual curved part of the pipe. You can get 90 degree mandrel tubing online too. Just take it to a local coatings place and they'll ceramic coat it for like 10 bucks, probably.

[jimrobbington]

This has been addressed too. APR basically said, the cooler your air entering the turbo, the less it will get heated, thusly lowering the temps even more after the intercooler.

A very simple example would be:

70 degree air > turbo heats to 90 > intercooler cools to 50
50 degree air > turbo heats to 70 > intercooler cools to 30.

So, basically, the issue is the temp of the air, at this point. Adding a K&N to a stock box won't alter the temp of the air coming in...just free up more air, which at this point, won't matter too much as the stock airbox is already pretty efficient. If you can find a way to chill the air, more than the stock box can, you're going to free up some power. Basically, that's why intercooler misters work.

Jim...I picked up the silicone couplers at Pep Boys (I turned the brand name under so you couldn't read it ;) ) and ordered a K&N cone off the net for like 35 bucks. I got my 3" pipe from a diesel supply store, and honestly, the bend radius was a bit too large. I want to say it was a 6" radius. I think a 3" radius would work perfectly as I had to trim a lot of mine to fit and by doing that, it started to eat into the actual curved part of the pipe. You can get 90 degree mandrel tubing online too. Just take it to a local coatings place and they'll ceramic coat it for like 10 bucks, probably.

You know, I just might try something like this as soon as I get a real intercooler..... Seems worth it IMO.

[Azeroth]

yeah his math is off but besides that point is there is no "dyno proven gains" with any aftermarket intake. Just to show that dynos are not a good way to measure intake efficiency. Just don't want Azeroth going off wasting his $ if performance is what he is after

Thank You [:)]


OP, just cuz I like this thread, I brought your rep back into the green for you!

And thank you to you as well [:D] the favor has been returned, you gave me some real good info. im new to all this stuff so its a big help [rolleyes]

[schizzy]

now has anyone just changed the turbo inlet pipe (like the one that 034 sells)? is it worth it?

[Azeroth]

ok so an aftermarket intake changes the sound, in my opinion for the better, well for those of you with FMICs, do they also change the sound at all? maybe its a whole different thing, but just wondering, like AWEs FMIC

[B72.0tsline]

whats FMIC??

[Nght&Day-B8]

Front Mount InterCooler

[B72.0tsline]

Front Mount InterCooler


i see....thanks







what about the AEM CAI?

[SEXICÄN]

i see....thanks







what about the AEM CAI?

are you asking what AEm CAI means?

AEM is a perforance compny and CAI means Cold Air Intake

[Charles]

An intercooler would have no effect on the sound of the car. All the IC does is cool air as it's routed through it.

[SEXICÄN]

yes and in doing so, it's easier to compress cold air than it is warm...

[B72.0tsline]

are you asking what AEm CAI means?

AEM is a perforance compny and CAI means Cold Air Intake


no, i mean what do you guys think about the AEM CAI.


btw i just ordered the K&N drop in filter......hope thats good.....

[SEXICÄN]

no, i mean what do you guys think about the AEM CAI.


btw i just ordered the K&N drop in filter......hope thats good.....

I personally feel both options are are waste of money, even thuogh others will say they are better air flow. which i can agree, but still not enough to justify the $50 or however much it costs

[Charles]

It's a lifetime filter, so in that aspect...it's worth it.

[TheHeggi]

yes and in doing so, it's easier to compress cold air than it is warm...

That's not correct. It's not easier...colder air is more valuable than warm because it contains more oxygen molecules.

And the AEM intake is just fine. After driving, I can touch the charge pipe inside the heat shield area and it is still "cold" or around ambient temp at least. I can't say I notice a difference performance wise, and it may not even provide one, but I really don't believe it to be compromising power either. But you can hear ALL spooling and the DV which is a plus to some.

Most important for "cool air" is an intercooler. You can pull in all the "cold" air you want through the intake pipe, bt once it hits that turbine, its getting compressed and heated.

[SEXICÄN]

i never was smart, lol

i'll just stick to know audis...lol

[Sprode]

That's not correct. It's not easier...colder air is more valuable than warm because it contains more oxygen molecules.

And the AEM intake is just fine. After driving, I can touch the charge pipe inside the heat shield area and it is still "cold" or around ambient temp at least. I can't say I notice a difference performance wise, and it may not even provide one, but I really don't believe it to be compromising power either. But you can hear ALL spooling and the DV which is a plus to some.

Most important for "cool air" is an intercooler. You can pull in on the "cold" air you want through the intake pipe, bt once it hits that turbine, its getting compressed and heated.

A turbine in the intake is an interesting idea, and I know its not what you meant. But if you're going to call someone out, at least get your own post right. [:p]

[TheHeggi]

A turbine in the intake is an interesting idea, and I know its not what you meant. But if you're going to call someone out, at least get your own post right. [:p]

While I see what you are referring to, I think it goes without saying that I didn't mean there is a turbine in the intake pipe...it's directly after the intake pipe, so its kind of a given...wouldn't you think? [:|]

[Operator]

no, i mean what do you guys think about the AEM CAI.


btw i just ordered the K&N drop in filter......hope thats good.....

I enjoy mine....... But I purchased it with the knowledge it wasn't going to get the gains some people think they will with a CAI. The install was pretty simple and like I said, I have enjoyed it since I put it on. As a bonus I was able to get one of the few polished intakes.

[Zebman]

While I see what you are referring to, I think it goes without saying that I didn't mean there is a turbine in the intake pipe...it's directly after the intake pipe, so its kind of a given...wouldn't you think? [:|]
That's what I was thinking. Nitpicking? lol

An intake is worthless but the sound is good. A metal pipe resonates, so the sound with a metal intake pipe is best!

[a4dc89]

I have the AEM and i deff think there is a bit of gain. It sounds better too. Id do it for the sound alone plus it wasnt as $$$ the carbullsh*t intake.

The sound was actually helpful to me earlier this week when i diagnosed that i was getting turbo flutter due to the fact that my DV wasnt fully plugged in. I would have never known this w/o my intake so i thank it for that.

[B72.0tsline]

I asked two people who worked for the public transit, one worked for 46years and one worked for 50 some years.

the one worked for 46 years told me. "CAI is better, there is no such thing as hot air. the engine needs more air. and Air is Air, Temperture is Temperture"

the one worked for 50 some years told me. "CAI is better. but you know what? there is an old saying. if it didn't break it, and it belongs to where it suppose to be, then let it keep it where it suppose to be."

[B72.0tsline]

I have the AEM and i deff think there is a bit of gain. It sounds better too. Id do it for the sound alone plus it wasnt as $$$ the carbullsh*t intake.

The sound was actually helpful to me earlier this week when i diagnosed that i was getting turbo flutter due to the fact that my DV wasnt fully plugged in. I would have never known this w/o my intake so i thank it for that.


does the AEM CAI came with heat shield?

[Operator]

does the AEM CAI came with heat shield?

Roger, this is the model I installed: http://audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=261816

[B72.0tsline]

thanks. wow, you got it for a good price $250?! with shipping.....oh well....

[TheHeggi]

I asked two people who worked for the public transit, one worked for 46years and one worked for 50 some years.

the one worked for 46 years told me. "CAI is better, there is no such thing as hot air. the engine needs more air. and Air is Air, Temperture is Temperture"

the one worked for 50 some years told me. "CAI is better. but you know what? there is an old saying. if it didn't break it, and it belongs to where it suppose to be, then let it keep it where it suppose to be."

Wow...no disrespect towards these people, but these are not the people you should look to for answers to these types of questions...not to mention working for public transit doesn't qualify them for anything really related to the topic...

[TheHeggi]

does the AEM CAI came with heat shield?

Yes it does. It's not a completely sealed unit, but it still does the job. My pipe feels cold or at least ambient temp after typical driving, it appears to be doing the job just fine.