Cam Follower Strikes Again...thanks Audi!

[torquewrench]

2007 A4 2.0L, with 65K miles. Symptoms started very suddenly - no power. Drove it home after work and daily driving and found the cam follower worn all the way thru, the fuel pump plunger worn down significantly, and the camshaft destroyed. I have no mods, and use the car to commute to work at a grandpa speed limit of 70mph. I do all meticulous main't on my car. Audi of America was no help at all since I am out of warranty.

Since the camshaft, fuel pump, etc. would cost over $600 in parts, I found a phenomenal deal on an A3 engine with just over 30K miles. ($800 delivered) Plus, I was not happy about having all the metal shavings throughout my engine. There were huge chunks in my oil pan.

This is my second A4, and my wife has an A3, and I am seriously considering selling them. It took me 8 hours to get the engine out, 12 hours to get it back in...alone, and in the winter cold. All the while cursing Audi every nut and bolt.

Audi has to start taking better care of their customers and take ownership of their engineering flaws.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=3983&pictureid=11673
http://www.audizine.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=3983&pictureid=11674[rolleyes][rolleyes]

[dan_the_v8man]

thats not nice to hear

all the more reason for people checking the cam followers, my car has only done 35k but i've only had it for 3k so when i get chance i'll be checking mine

[torquewrench]

I've just replaced the follower in my wife's A3. I'm going to replace the cam followers in both our Audi's it at scheduled intervals as a preventative main't. It's ridiculous.

[vortexjunkie]

is this a b7 problem only or other years too

[gyroscope]

Given the magnitude of this issue and the widespread engine failures that it has caused or will cause, I think there should be a national recall. I wonder if the transverse (VW) engines are having similar problems.

[torquewrench]

Given the magnitude of this issue and the widespread engine failures that it has caused or will cause, I think there should be a national recall. I wonder if the transverse (VW) engines are having similar problems.

Audi B7's are not the only ones with this issue. Any 2.0L (transverse or long) is suspect to have this issue depending on the year. Because there are so many 2.0L engines on the road is precisely the reason Audi is so reluctant to do a recall. It would be extremely costly. Since the issue doesn't involve safetly, and since it doesn't happen to all vehicles, they are just hoping the engines make it past 50K miles before failure. I am very familiar with the Automotive manufacturer's shenanigans from first hand experience.

[Blarg]

We know they are aware of it since they changed the design of the new 2.0 but I agree it's ridiculous that we have to deal with this.

[nramsey]

I don't think a recall is going to happen because there is no "fix". It will always happen, even if they replace everyone's cam follower. The real key is to replace the part regularly (every 20k miles maybe?). It really should be added to the regular maintenance schedule.

[torquewrench]

I don't think a recall is going to happen because there is no "fix". It will always happen, even if they replace everyone's cam follower. The real key is to replace the part regularly (every 20k miles maybe?). It really should be added to the regular maintenance schedule.

They do have an updated camshaft. It is a 2 piece design.

[rensho]

Wow, that sucks about the engine, but bravo on the engine find and R/R. Impressive skillz. Not having a helping hand around while R/R an engine is a pain.

What is happening to some of these that are getting eaten up so early? I just bought a wagon from MI, and he pulled the follower at 73k. There were little swirl marks, but no other signs of wear. That car didn't live a pampered life. Nothing special other than 5k oil changes with M1 0-40 for the past 15k(he's the 2nd owner). Is syntec not good enough for these?

[nramsey]

They do have an updated camshaft. It is a 2 piece design.

I believe some model years got that new part from the factory, but still have the same problems. I don't think the cam design has anything to do with the cam followers wearing through.

[golfvdude]

That freaking blows. My follower wasn't as worn so I'm changing out my cam soon. Had a new follower in it and it's running fine now but this situation just blows. I hope H2sport comes out with their fix soon as many are anticipating the release of the roller setup.

[Zebman]

I had planned on doing this every other oil change, but I may pull mine tomorrow to check on it again. I changed the oil two days ago and it's still on stands waiting for headlight bulbs. (Don't want to have to pull the bumper twice if I can avoid it)

[JRMSLINEA4]

This is why my car and my girlfriends are both Warranty/CPO cars. I will never buy a used car without the CPO.

[chrislane31]

I just had the dealer inspect and replace my cam follower at my last warranty appointment at 98k miles and the follower was mint. It barely looked worn.

[UGwagen]

Audi B7's are not the only ones with this issue. Any 2.0L (transverse or long) is suspect to have this issue depending on the year. Because there are so many 2.0L engines on the road is precisely the reason Audi is so reluctant to do a recall. It would be extremely costly. Since the issue doesn't involve safetly, and since it doesn't happen to all vehicles, they are just hoping the engines make it past 50K miles before failure. I am very familiar with the Automotive manufacturer's shenanigans from first hand experience.

the chain driven 2.0T's have a different cam follower design from the B7 (and transverse BPY engine).

[gyroscope]

torquewrench,
did your car have any cold start issues or fuel pump ticking (the tdi drone)?

[Tanner]

]http://www.audizine.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=3983&pictureid=11673

Wow.

[torquewrench]

torquewrench,
did your car have any cold start issues or fuel pump ticking (the tdi drone)?

This car always seems to crank a second or two longer than it should. Sometimes up to 4 seconds max. It has always started, but not instantly. I had hoped that it was related to the high pressure fuel pump, but after replacing the engine and HP fuel pump, it starts the exact same way. I'll look into it when the weather gets warmer. My hands should have thawed by then.

As far as fuel pump ticking, I didn't notice anything excessive. Honestly, it's difficult to hear over the engine's "normal" noises, so who knows. I can say that the new engines sounds the same as the old engine.

[torquewrench]

the chain driven 2.0T's have a different cam follower design from the B7 (and transverse BPY engine).

Yes, this is true. The newer 2.0T are chain driven and have a different HPFP cam follower design.

However, just to be clear - whether or not the engine is transverse or longitudinal has nothing to do with if it's the redesigned 2.0T or not. It's the year that will tell you this. The 2.0T engine that is now longitudinal in my A4 was transverse mounted in its previous life. It's the exact same engine for the most part.

[torquewrench]

I just had the dealer inspect and replace my cam follower at my last warranty appointment at 98k miles and the follower was mint. It barely looked worn.

Either you're really lucky, or I'm unlucky. Either way, good to hear!

[Zebman]

I went out and pulled the pump this morning. Damn i'm getting good at this; pulled it, checked the follower, coated it and the tip of the plunger in assembly lube, and put it all back + ran the car for a few minutes, all in about an hour and 15 minutes.

This thread is good at inducing paranoia to say the least. But mine is fine. :) Sorry about your luck torquewrench. For your prowess of working on your car, I am surprised to hear that your A4 was stock. I doubt I could swap the engine in this car just yet.

[thanatos]

Man, I can't believe these cam follower issues... I have another thread on this I started a while back here: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332578

It's completely shameful that Audi won't own up to what is CLEARLY flawed design/materials, and issue a recall for this. I had the same sort of failure 30 days out of warranty, and they won't even offer any sort of goodwill. I'm without my car for 3 weeks now, and almost $4k out of pocket on the repair...

+1 rep for the R/R, btw...

[flyguy327]

Lucky for me the "stealer" replaced my Cam, follower and pump at 49K! Wheeew. But I have 70K now and def gonna check for any new wear. I dont understand why someone (audi or aftermarket) hasn't designed a better follower. Like a "roller follower." That thing would never wear. Maybe I should start work on that and make millions!!!! [cool]

[thanatos]

Lucky for me the "stealer" replaced my Cam, follower and pump at 49K! Wheeew. But I have 70K now and def gonna check for any new wear. I dont understand why someone (audi or aftermarket) hasn't designed a better follower. Like a "roller follower." That thing would never wear. Maybe I should start work on that and make millions!!!! [cool]

I'm pretty sure that that's in the works actually, I'm following a thread on VWvortex (combatting the same issue we've faced): H2sport roller follower possibility (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?&id=4484254)

[torquewrench]

This thread is good at inducing paranoia to say the least. But mine is fine. :) Sorry about your luck torquewrench. For your prowess of working on your car, I am surprised to hear that your A4 was stock. I doubt I could swap the engine in this car just yet.


I am fairly handy with a wrench, but don't tell anyone. [wrench] Once someone finds out, I get everyone and their brother asking to fix their vehicle. Oh, and I've had a few cars that were very heavily modified (to put it mildly) in the past until I went and got all domesticated with a family.



It's completely shameful that Audi won't own up to what is CLEARLY flawed design/materials, and issue a recall for this. I had the same sort of failure 30 days out of warranty, and they won't even offer any sort of goodwill. I'm without my car for 3 weeks now, and almost $4k out of pocket on the repair...


I was quoted similar numbers, sorry to hear you had to pay that much.



Lucky for me the "stealer" replaced my Cam, follower and pump at 49K! Wheeew. But I have 70K now and def gonna check for any new wear. I dont understand why someone (audi or aftermarket) hasn't designed a better follower. Like a "roller follower." That thing would never wear. Maybe I should start work on that and make millions!!!!


I had read somewhere that someone was working on a roller.

[flyguy327]

So much for my millions....

[Zebman]

It's going to be very difficult to make work. The TFSI has rails built into the hole in the head where the follower goes that the follower slides in. To make a similar system on the older FSI engines, there will have to be headwork done, namely to create slots in the hole for the redesigned follower to be seated in. If that's not done, the follower will just spin.

And how are they going to compensate for the added thickness to the follower? The plunger length is a very touchy part.

I'd love for something like this to come out, but I am skeptical to say the least, especially for it to be price-effective. $50 every other oil change is change to me.

[Quattro]

yikes!!!!! that is horrible to see!

i need to check mine soon!

[UGwagen]

However, just to be clear - whether or not the engine is transverse or longitudinal has nothing to do with if it's the redesigned 2.0T or not. It's the year that will tell you this. The 2.0T engine that is now longitudinal in my A4 was transverse mounted in its previous life. It's the exact same engine for the most part.

For the A4's, all B7's 2.0t are the problematic ones.

B8's have the chain driven 2.0T with VTEC.
and of course, B6 have the 1.8T.

For the most part, with the A3, TT, GTI, Jetta & Passat you can go by year, with the exception of 2008. the chain-driven 2.0T's got introduced in mid-late 2008, so you have to go by engine code.

my 2008 Passat is a early 2008, and I have the BPY motor

[jimrobbington]

Dude, mad props to you for being able to pull the freaking engine in the first place, much less by your self.[hail] If only I would ever have that kind of mechanical prowess. Sorry for your troubles indeed, but better you than me! LOL. I won't even change my own oil. I enjoy the peace of mind that comes with the free inspections at my shop. Good luck to you![up] for your mechanical abilities.

[v_audi]

Dude, mad props to you for being able to pull the freaking engine in the first place, much less by your self.[hail] If only I would ever have that kind of mechanical prowess. Sorry for your troubles indeed, but better you than me! LOL. I won't even change my own oil. I enjoy the peace of mind that comes with the free inspections at my shop. Good luck to you![up] for your mechanical abilities.

X2. Sorry to hear about your problems but that's a very impressive engine swap.

[Eternalmind]

Audi B7's are not the only ones with this issue. Any 2.0L (transverse or long) is suspect to have this issue depending on the year. Because there are so many 2.0L engines on the road is precisely the reason Audi is so reluctant to do a recall. It would be extremely costly. Since the issue doesn't involve safetly, and since it doesn't happen to all vehicles, they are just hoping the engines make it past 50K miles before failure. I am very familiar with the Automotive manufacturer's shenanigans from first hand experience.

i agree that would be audi's position...not a safety issue...but i would definitely disagree with them if i got a power cut while pulling out in front of traffic and got plowed. it's a shame, but i think something really tragic is going to have to happen for audi to step up and take ownership.

it honestly needs to be a class-action lawsuit. game over.

[jimrobbington]

Alright, we have got to have a lawyer on here. Let's get this going!

[Tanner]

I'm wondering, how much bad press did BMW have with their HPFP failing in their engines? BMW has basically offered a 10 year warranty on the HPFP now because of this snafu.

Meanwhile at Audi......

EDIT: BMW seen a very high rate of return with their new cars and initially believed it was a software problem. Customers kept on coming back with issues and then it was finally diagnosed to be an issue with the HPFP (which is an electric pump btw, not some cam/lobe setup like ours). Audi's is a bit different, short term reliability is maybe pretty good in a broad sense, but long term reliability, if the follower isn't checked at a certain interval which should be the case, then yeah, it'll mess up other things.....

[marty was here]

I'm wondering, how much bad press did BMW have with their HPFP failing in their engines? BMW has basically offered a 10 year warranty on the HPFP now because of this snafu.

Meanwhile at Audi......

EDIT: BMW seen a very high rate of return with their new cars and initially believed it was a software problem. Customers kept on coming back with issues and then it was finally diagnosed to be an issue with the HPFP (which is an electric pump btw, not some cam/lobe setup like ours). Audi's is a bit different, short term reliability is maybe pretty good in a broad sense, but long term reliability, if the follower isn't checked at a certain interval which should be the case, then yeah, it'll mess up other things.....

another example of audi customer service

[Tanner]

Though if we had the numbers, I'm willing to bet that BMW had a lot of people coming back with HPFP issues on earlier in their ownership (which was the case actually), and isn't quite the same as Audi's since the problem appears to creep up near the end of the warranty or past warranty. So it's not quite the same scenario.

The HPFP that BMW had were actual problems with the pump itself, right from the get-go. The pump itself is on it's third revision, plus it's a design that is at least a few years newer than Audi's HPFP which is mechanical base vs electrical.

One thing for sure, BMW owned up to the issue at the beginning after a period of time and covering the HPFP with a 10 year warranty. Plus I don't know if the issues with the earlier pumps were related to fuel with ethanol in it or not.

[jmars]

IMO Audi strapped it on and is going to town on our asses! I'm so angry over this problem b/c this just means my B7 and I will not have the long relationship I once thought we'd have.

[thanatos]

It's going to be very difficult to make work. The TFSI has rails built into the hole in the head where the follower goes that the follower slides in. To make a similar system on the older FSI engines, there will have to be headwork done, namely to create slots in the hole for the redesigned follower to be seated in. If that's not done, the follower will just spin.

And how are they going to compensate for the added thickness to the follower? The plunger length is a very touchy part.

I'd love for something like this to come out, but I am skeptical to say the least, especially for it to be price-effective. $50 every other oil change is change to me.

Oddly enough I can report that H2Sport has completed testing on this.... and have some info which addresses some of these questions

http://www.h2sport.com/images/products/engine/fsi_fuel_pump/Roller_and_Mount.jpg
^^Upgraded follower and HPFP mount


http://www.h2sport.com/images/products/engine/fsi_fuel_pump/Cam_and_Housing.jpg
^^Revised cam profile and end cover

I'm posting this second hand from the vwvortex thread I'd posted earlier but here's the gist:

Kit contains roller cam follower, HPFP bracket, revised cam profile for HPFP lobe, and modified end cover. Seems like they've done their homework, they made the new follower larger in diameter (hence the new bracket requirement) and the cam profile is revised to 'achieve the right fuel pressure at the right time. Revising the cam profile is necessary because the lift of a roller follower versus a flat face follower isn't the same. Simply put you can’t just swap a flat face follower for a roller follower and get the same lift. You have to revise the cam profile too. To the casual eye the new profile may look like the old, but when view side-by-side the difference is obvious.'

The complete kit is supposed to come in around $400, though unfortunately because these particular parts are dealer source only, they decided the best /most cost effective way will be for customers to send in their intake cam and end cover to which they would will install the revised cam profile and modify the end cover – with same day turn around.

There's a core exchange option as well, but again due to price of original parts and dealer only availability, the core charge is set at $1000.

I'm following the thread pretty closely, will bring back any more I hear. Availability for sure isn't certain yet from the sounds of it, but they are through testing. For me it's too late (and too new, honestly) though I hope to get my car back from the dealer in 3-4 days after this infuriating issue is fixed. Pray I don't have any fragments floating around my head or block...[hail]

[Tanner]

Nice. $400 though... which is probably about six cam follower changes including the labour :)

[thanatos]

Granted. I haven't tried one myself but they seem pretty straight forward...

[nramsey]

IMO Audi strapped it on and is going to town on our asses! I'm so angry over this problem b/c this just means my B7 and I will not have the long relationship I once thought we'd have.

Why not? It's less than a $50 part and an hour of your time to replace. I don't see why that would make you get rid of the car sooner than you'd want.

[nramsey]

Nice. $400 though... which is probably about six cam follower changes including the labour :)

Yeah, plus once you do the mod it looks like there is no going back without buying a new cam and cover from Audi. I don't know the company's track record, but I think a roller follower could potentially have more reliability issues if not done right. There is more to go wrong with that setup.

Honestly, it's not worth it to me. I'll just spend the <$50 and replace the stock follower once a year to be safe.

[Tanner]

BMW uses a similar kind of cam follower in their twin turbo V8.

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i15/cruizin01/GTI/0826090959.jpg

BTW, link to the original thread about this roller cam follower: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4484254

[aldito2]

I may be late on this thread, but AUdi released a warranty issue thing where they pay u back for damages

[Jay-Bee]

I may be late on this thread, but AUdi released a warranty issue thing where they pay u back for damages

Cereal?

[hail]

[Charles.waite]

^^ Super.

[chbrook]

yikes!!!!! that is horrible to see!

i need to check mine soon!

I did mine @ 55k w/ my APR flash, mine was worn but still functional at that point. I'm the 2nd owner so it may have been done previously. It's bs that Audi didn't do an 'extended' on it, but its pretty cheap to replace even when paying a shop, in relation to a lot other repairs w/ no warranty.

[B7Daily]

Audi replaced my head cam cam follower and everything for free as long as it’s under 120000 they will take care of it 100% if they don’t you can make a an argument against them. My car was at 116,000 when they did the work

[B7Daily]

they even asked for my mod list so they did not replace anything that i have already upgraded

[BoSNiaN]

I may be late on this thread, but AUdi released a warranty issue thing where they pay u back for damages

NO WAY DUDE [o_o]

[Jamie Horwath]

I just had the dealer inspect and replace my cam follower at my last warranty appointment at 98k miles and the follower was mint. It barely looked worn.

How much did it cost to get replaced? Because i brought them the cam follower and my local me mechainc said it would cost me alot of $$$
Please let me know. Thanks

[Acme]

How much did it cost to get replaced? Because i brought them the cam follower and my local me mechainc said it would cost me alot of $$$
Please let me know. Thanks

Necro bump, and the last poster was Bosnian... Lolll

Cam follower replacement is a 1h job at most, and about 50$ for parts.

[Jamie Horwath]

Necro bump, and the last poster was Bosnian... Lolll

Cam follower replacement is a 1h job at most, and about 50$ for parts.

Sorry iknow this post is old but okay than i don't know what my mechanic was talking about? He was saying like $900 and i already gave him the part. I walked out. Guess i'll just go to an Audi Dealership. Thank you

[Acme]

900$??? Yeah, walk. This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. [headbang]

[Biged243]

Yes run, DIY and save. It's not hard and it's good for the soul.

[Jamie Horwath]

900$??? Yeah, walk. This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. [headbang]

Yes 900!!! I called Audi and they said $200-$225. And sad to say i don't know enough about it to do it myself :( but i wish i did! Thanks for the help. Atleast i know i'm not crazy for walking away from that.

[szaer]

225$ is a lot less than some dealers may charge, but still a lot. Its a 1 hour job if you do it by yourself, and remember, you'll have that "i'm a boss" feeling once u do something on your car and fix it on your own. Then you can do it every second oil change and save yourself tons of money down the road. Theres a clear cut DIY on it also.

[Acme]

My dealer charged me 190$ CND for parts, labor and taxes... The car was still CPO so I paid for it just in case it was busted, so they could replace whatever needed to be replaced. Turned out the follower was in pretty good shape. Next time I'll do it myself.

[Copen-cisco]

Just had it done the other day, car was in for a tune and they changed it while it was there.. $125 including parts and labor

[matt94gt]

Just had it done the other day, car was in for a tune and they changed it while it was there.. $125 including parts and labor

Thats not bad, mine was done at 100k and its at 140k now, not sure how often you guys have been replacing them? I thought the replacements fixed the issue, or is that just BS?

[JDillon15]

Do you guys usually get your Cam Follower kits from ECS? Or is there a better route??

[Biged243]

Thats not bad, mine was done at 100k and its at 140k now, not sure how often you guys have been replacing them? I thought the replacements fixed the issue, or is that just BS?

You need to check it more often than that. Good measure would be every other oil change check it, have a spare on hand. The new revision helps but has been known to fail also.



Do you guys usually get your Cam Follower kits from ECS? Or is there a better route??

I got mine from gap and europarts. Ecs is good also. Either way it's good to do and good to have one as a spare.

[szaer]

wow... you guys getting good quotes lol. My dealer was saying its a 400-450$ job... (2.5 hours labour)

[Luis_Heineken]

Necro bump, and the last poster was Bosnian... Lolll

Cam follower replacement is a 1h job at most, and about 50$ for parts.


http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/audi-volkswagen-fuel-pump-cam-follower-oes-genuine-06d109309c

[aluthman]

http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/audi-volkswagen-fuel-pump-cam-follower-oes-genuine-06d109309c

$29 for a cam follower?! I'll take 5!

[4ty-phive]

http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/audi-volkswagen-fuel-pump-cam-follower-oes-genuine-06d109309c

Good look on this

[Luis_Heineken]

Good look on this

thanks [up]

[wilongo]

the chain driven 2.0T's have a different cam follower design from the B7 (and transverse BPY engine).

the B8.5 have this issue? or that's the newer version you're talking about?

- - - Updated - - -


the chain driven 2.0T's have a different cam follower design from the B7 (and transverse BPY engine).

the B8.5 have this issue? or that's the newer version you're talking about?