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GURUMAN
12-22-2009, 05:28 PM
Title says it all [:D]

Having stage 4 power and torque for less than half the price.

Dont get me Wrong guys, the 996T is still in plans for Feb or March.

Since I cant use the Porsche to go to my clients, I dicided to transform my old rolling chassis (the satin Black B5) in a 450 hp + DD[>_<]


IF A VR6 fits, the LS will[;)]

Prutty pictures...
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/LSPrimer/images/LS1/LS1%202004%205.7L%20V8%20(LS1)%20for%20Chevrolet%2 0Corvette%202004_5_7L_V8_LS1_Y.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w189/domy954/EngineandTransRear.jpg

GURUMAN
12-22-2009, 05:32 PM
I will post more info about the adaptor setup.

Vendor, be gentle please, nobody of you guys offer this product...

http://www.kitcarchassis.com/

Eric Martin is tha Man...

damian_pl
12-22-2009, 05:33 PM
hot damn!

lowandslow4now
12-22-2009, 05:33 PM
Subscribed!

Jung
12-22-2009, 05:33 PM
god that's beautiful

NYCVR6
12-22-2009, 05:38 PM
Haha love it.

JDM EJ1 95
12-22-2009, 05:39 PM
we actually had this idea as well.. and had the motor and our a4 chassis.. LS is a lot longer than a VR6.. we measured an LS with as much removed on the front of the motor as possible and youd have to run either a modified front support, or no stock front support at all.. or do some cutting to the firewall/strut crossbrace

it is definately a sick idea though.. quattro LS1 would be a mean setup.

S4 Dan
12-22-2009, 05:42 PM
haha, you are the man!

GURUMAN
12-22-2009, 05:43 PM
This is not my engine, it's jus to show you guys the adaptor exist in the kit car world...

Mine will look like this one

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w189/domy954/0905gmhtp_10_zls6_enginewith_red_en.jpg

99ebpsi24
12-22-2009, 05:45 PM
Subscribed!

x2 looking forward to :
1. seeing if they let you keep this on here this time (vendors should get upset over this they don't even produce this).
2. the end product and power you make.

either way good luck with it and keep us posted [up]

GURUMAN
12-22-2009, 05:47 PM
http://www.currentperformance.com/Harness_4ft.JPG

Custom harness is around 500$ to 600$

You fit the Stock ecu on it that comes with the engine...

awtst3.a6
12-22-2009, 05:48 PM
If one man can do... guru can. Even if the LS doesn't fit I am sure he will make it work :D. GL with the build guru

GURUMAN
12-22-2009, 05:52 PM
I will probably push the rad a bit more front, and put an universal aluminium 3 row GM rad
200$
http://www.hspnnews.com/images/uploads/mark7_radiators_coolest.jpg

hercfe
12-22-2009, 05:53 PM
If an LSx can fit in a STI, it will surely fit in a B5 chassis. This should be pretty interesting for sure!

antoanS4
12-22-2009, 05:56 PM
everything is possible with Guru

Kruat
12-22-2009, 06:00 PM
Sweet build, hope certain people don't get involved and get the thread closed. Which LS are you looking at doing? Retaining AWD via audi 5000 tranny? Sounds sweet. Good luck.

GURUMAN
12-22-2009, 06:02 PM
Sweet build, hope certain people don't get involved and get the thread closed. Which LS are you looking at doing? Retaining AWD via audi 5000 tranny? Sounds sweet. Good luck.

Audi S4 01e 5 speed tranny from 96 S4. With full quattro system that went 10 sec[;)]

onemoremile
12-22-2009, 06:04 PM
Keep the kid stuff out so we can keep this thread open. I love this stuff.

A 350 fits nicely in the B5 and I doubt the Ls block is any larger externally. The only issue I can think of is the water pump and belts but you can run a shortie electric and cut that length down.


as far as the wiring harness goes, well here it is
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu347/soulonfire6699/CIMG3900.jpg

heres my new ecu
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu347/soulonfire6699/CIMG3899.jpg


Other than that, i really havent been driving it lately, the weathers been sh*ty around here, so sorry no vid yet, im workin on it.

Since everything is finally runnin good, besides a little coolent leak, Im finally cleanin everything up. Ive been pretty busy with school so I really wasnt playin in the garage, but I just finished my last final today and Im off til Jan. 19th. Now hopefully the last bit of progress that needs to be made will get finished

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu347/soulonfire6699/CIMG3895.jpg
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu347/soulonfire6699/CIMG3897.jpg


Ill post more pics the cleaner it gets

finally got a camera that works

blmlozz
12-22-2009, 06:06 PM
I dont know whether to masterbate or throw-up.

8520
12-22-2009, 06:09 PM
I dont know whether to masterbate or throw-up.

I can't help but agree.

I don't even. What is this?

Jung
12-22-2009, 06:09 PM
why would you throw up?

Rated S
12-22-2009, 06:11 PM
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_9HYFFImPbcU/SzFuMDeiCrI/AAAAAAAAAJA/czl3X9VJVt0/ls101e.jpg

Never thought I'd see this on an LS. [:D]

I thought putting one in my Miata would be badass. [:p]

Coopa
12-22-2009, 06:15 PM
Watching this one for sure.

8520
12-22-2009, 06:18 PM
why would you throw up?

Not a fan of crossbreeding, especially when using carb'd motors, not that guruman is going that route.

GURUMAN
12-22-2009, 06:26 PM
Not a fan of crossbreeding, especially when using carb'd motors, not that guruman is going that route.

Agreed with your point, I'm certanly not gonna go back 20 years in technology.

My car will have the Ecu system from the Corvette, witch is 90% standalone by itself.[;)]

GURUMAN
12-22-2009, 06:28 PM
The only standback in technologie in my project will be still the drive by cable conversion, but hey, My S4 project was already this way with the OE engine.

Trigger Happy
12-22-2009, 06:41 PM
GURU seeing a big displacement power-plant in an S4 makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I love the LS series. After owning an 06 GTO I think the LS2 is my favorite engine of all time. It sounds amazing, looks amazing, mad torque down low, ahhhhh! I want this. So excited to see how this turns out. Please please please keep us updated on the final cost of the project I feel like this could be a viable alternative to stage 3 and up power. Ur awesome GURU!

antoanS4
12-22-2009, 06:41 PM
Audi S4 01e 5 speed tranny from 96 S4. With full quattro system that went 10 sec[;)]

any reason why using the older S4 tranny instead of the B5 S4, B5 S4 tranny wont work?

Trigger Happy
12-22-2009, 06:44 PM
any reason why using the older S4 tranny instead of the B5 S4, B5 S4 tranny wont work?

It was his spare dogbox tranny

GURUMAN
12-22-2009, 06:44 PM
any reason why using the older S4 tranny instead of the B5 S4, B5 S4 tranny wont work?

This was my spare tranny, for my GT28 setup...

Sold my 6 speed to dla79

It's as strong as yhe 6 speed...

antoanS4
12-22-2009, 06:46 PM
but the B5 S4 tranny would fit too rigth?

GURUMAN
12-22-2009, 06:48 PM
but the B5 S4 tranny would fit too rigth?

Ya man, casing is the same.

The kit will provide:

Adaptor plate, billet aluminium.

Custom Flywheel

Audi 200 clutch and pressure plate

Custom starter

Will fit any LS series... even LS9 [evilsmile]

jibberjive
12-22-2009, 06:57 PM
Good luck man. ETA?

Mooseimage
12-22-2009, 06:58 PM
Subscribed. I'm so happy for another GURU build!

RolledMySTi
12-22-2009, 07:38 PM
Will fit any LS series... even LS9 [evilsmile]

I think I'm getting moist [o_o].

Good luck on your project GURU and give us all the details.

onemoremile
12-22-2009, 07:40 PM
Not a fan of crossbreeding, especially when using carb'd motors, not that guruman is going that route.

I'm not a fan of carbs either. Just wanted to show that it fits and runs. [drive]

washyourrhands
12-22-2009, 07:41 PM
<3

puz84
12-22-2009, 07:52 PM
good shit homie good shit.

Mrsfourrings
12-22-2009, 08:16 PM
Guru any plans down the line for a remote turbo system (ie... STS)?
By the way Eric is a good guy! I talked to him right before Thanksgiving about a similar set-up.

antoanS4
12-22-2009, 08:18 PM
whats the best LS motor?

TravS4
12-22-2009, 08:29 PM
Subscribed!

Im going to be sooo happy if you can fit a BAT in there somewhere, even twins would be awesome. A remote turbo or turbos would work too but idk... I've heard a lot of mixed reviews about the remotes.

Dowskeet
12-22-2009, 08:53 PM
This will be interesting.. Make some gear heads turn their heads when they pull up to this car. Goodluck Guru

skele4door
12-22-2009, 08:57 PM
I will probably push the rad a bit more front, and put an universal aluminium 3 row GM rad
200$


Just FYI GM changed the sizes of the inlet/outlet between the SBC and LSX. You'll probably need to use some adapters to adjust hose sizes if you use one of those generic aluminum Camaro rads. I'd suggest looking into Howe radiators. They are only slightly more and if you find one of their off the shelf rads that will suit your needs they'll adjust the inlet/outlets for a small fee. Also make sure you don't hard mount the rad to the chassis. Aluminum radiators don't like dealing with chassis flex too much.

TravS4
12-22-2009, 09:04 PM
Aluminum radiators don't like dealing with chassis flex too much.

Hopefully you didn't find this out the hard way [:(] lol

And Guru, any idea on tuning plans right now? Are you going to go searching for a good LS tuning or going to have some custom stuff done from the same people that did your GT setups?

Scotty@Advanced
12-22-2009, 09:09 PM
that's nice to see pictures! Eric Martin is always asking me questions about 01E transmissions and clutches, it's nice to see his work. Next time I'm further North I need to pay him a visit.

The stock 200 quattro clutch is marginal with that kind of power.

csre9
12-22-2009, 09:09 PM
Awesome build, how did you source a vette motor?

GURUMAN
12-22-2009, 09:17 PM
Awesome build, how did you source a vette motor?

Scrappy[>_<]

GURUMAN
12-22-2009, 09:19 PM
The stock 200 quattro clutch is marginal with that kind of power

Javad from 034 will hook me up with a stage 4 from a 200 audi...

You really think I was going with a stock one ???

pearlwhite
12-22-2009, 09:30 PM
how did you source a vette motor?

OMGZ those are so hard to get

jrock
12-22-2009, 09:35 PM
What did you pay for the ls1 from the scrapyard?

Quattrocket
12-22-2009, 09:52 PM
w
t
f
?

kbS42001
12-22-2009, 10:17 PM
REDONKULOUS!...good luck man, keep us posted!

Rated S
12-22-2009, 10:22 PM
whats the best LS motor?

LS1 is the most common engine which came out of a lot of GM cars. Camaro, Trans Am, Corvette, etc.

kiellish
12-22-2009, 10:26 PM
wow awesome build. how is this going to affect the balance of the car?

AudiVWTech
12-22-2009, 10:32 PM
wow awesome build. how is this going to affect the balance of the car?

not at all really. If anything it will improve balance. The long blocks weight the same. But now you are pulling the intercoolers and piping out of the nose. All said and done it will probably weigh the same or a little bit less with the balance practically unchanged.

will175
12-22-2009, 10:41 PM
Wow very interesting. I like the price point too,lol. Do you think a remote (like STS) mount turbo work in the swap? That would be sweet set up also with AWD. You crazy man you. And there are some crazy deals on 996 turbos right now, which you prob know.

2kblacks4
12-22-2009, 11:50 PM
Subscribed!

I love this idea! Keep us posted.

lrg8683
12-23-2009, 12:31 AM
TT it get 600whp out of it.. call it a day.


lol.. i joked about an ls1 swap 2 or 3 years ago.. didn't even think it could be possible.

TravS4
12-23-2009, 12:41 AM
And there are some crazy deals on 996 turbos right now, which you prob know.

I have a feeling he already cashed in on one of those deals [;)]

Raacerx
12-23-2009, 01:08 AM
Have to admit, pretty cool. Next thing you gotta do though, is deal with the engine-in-front of of the front axle bullshit. I want to see an S4 with near 50/50 weight.

washyourrhands
12-23-2009, 01:12 AM
Have to admit, pretty cool. Next thing you gotta do though, is deal with the engine-in-front of of the front axle bullshit. I want to see an S4 with near 50/50 weight.

now THAT would be sweet

getslideways
12-23-2009, 01:24 AM
this is awesome!!! nice work and please keep us posted with step by step pictures or your build and progress. Kudos!!!

MAKK
12-23-2009, 02:09 AM
now THAT would be sweet

Agreed.

My shop mainly deals with muscle cars, and I can tell you that this setup will be vicious on the street when done. Just think what he can do power wise with a Whipple or Kenne Bell on there...[evilmad] I think you'd still be around the same price as a Stage III kit, lol.

sweetsound2001
12-23-2009, 03:51 AM
So this kit will have a turbo LSx motors bolted up to an Audi awd transmission and retain all the stock amenities, (ac, power steering, etc)?

And the cost for the complete conversion? [o_o]

GURUMAN
12-23-2009, 06:00 AM
I'm not decided between LS1 or LS6

Ls1 is 1500$ Vs 2500$ for the Ls6

Fabing a turbo kit with a used gt40 will cost about 2k

I might go strait to remote single turbo that would be placed where the first resonator goes driver side...

That would give about 500 whp at 7 to 8 psi [:D]

sweetsound2001
12-23-2009, 06:07 AM
That would give about 500 whp at 7 to 8 psi [:D]

Right!!! Like you're gonna leave it alone at 8 psi [wrench]

S4_NE
12-23-2009, 06:21 AM
Good luck man, I come from the SB Chevy/Ford world before I went to German cars in 2000, This makes me miss them some times, Hope all come together for you well.

MikeyB3
12-23-2009, 06:37 AM
Guru, you inspire me.

emenny81
12-23-2009, 08:03 AM
Im interested.

DaveS4
12-23-2009, 08:44 AM
Hot damn, this is going to be ridiculous.

wdbdy2000s4
12-23-2009, 09:11 AM
TT it get 600whp out of it.. call it a day.
It's a waist of time to twin turbo that motor for 600whp. a LS1 with a 40R will spool like K03s and make 600whp with less than 10PSI.


Right!!! Like you're gonna leave it alone at 8 psi [wrench]
8 PSI through twin k04s on a 2.7T is far different than 8PSI through a 40R on a 5.7L. 8PSI is enough for around 600whp with that setup.[evilsmile]

lrg8683
12-23-2009, 09:34 AM
It's a waist of time to twin turbo that motor for 600whp. a LS1 with a 40R will spool like K03s and make 600whp with less than 10PSI.


i'm all about the single turbo..i figure, space wise, 2 smaller turbos would be easier to fit in... though if it's going to be a remote mount single then it doesn't make a difference..

antoanS4
12-23-2009, 10:52 AM
I'm not decided between LS1 or LS6

Ls1 is 1500$ Vs 2500$ for the Ls6

Fabing a turbo kit with a used gt40 will cost about 2k

I might go strait to remote single turbo that would be placed where the first resonator goes driver side...

That would give about 500 whp at 7 to 8 psi [:D]

can you still use AC,power steering and all the other stuff?

GURUMAN
12-23-2009, 10:54 AM
Now before anybody tries to discourage me to go remote, watch this...

The remote oiling setup, I have it already from Mike Rombotis, it's from a 911 Turbo...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-BMmv7J-9k

antoanS4
12-23-2009, 10:58 AM
LS1 is the most common engine which came out of a lot of GM cars. Camaro, Trans Am, Corvette, etc.

performance wise, which one is better LS2 or LS6,i dont know anything about Ls motors thats why im asking,i have heard a lot about the LSX motor which one is that one?

GURUMAN
12-23-2009, 11:09 AM
I got my hands on a very cheap LQ4 witch is perfect for Force induction 10 psi...

IT's from the silverados, same as ls2 6.0L but iron block. CR is 9.3 to 1 instead of over 10...

It's about 85 lbs heavier, but I will add about the same in the back so I couldnt care less...

koolkoreanked
12-23-2009, 11:21 AM
performance wise, which one is better LS2 or LS6,i dont know anything about Ls motors thats why im asking,i have heard a lot about the LSX motor which one is that one?

Ls6 cause it's built from the factory, tho one could argue the ls2 has more ci. Seat of pants feel and local races back a few years ago says stock for stock the ls6 is faster than the ls2, tho that could be because the c5 z06 is lighter.

8520
12-23-2009, 11:32 AM
Now before anybody tries to discourage me to go remote, watch this...

The remote oiling setup, I have it already from Mike Rombotis, it's from a 911 Turbo...

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-BMmv7J-9k

Even though I mentioned I'm not a fan of crossbreeding, I wouldn't discourage you from doing it.

Generally the people who do ls1 swaps are hatchet masters, but I have not seen that in your work once [up]

Vinny@DTH
12-23-2009, 11:55 AM
This is insane.

Sherif
12-23-2009, 12:16 PM
Hey Dom! look at what I just get in the garage to get the engine out ;)

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb10/SHERIF222/siilverado.jpg?t=1261595454

lol 2000 Sierra 2500 with your 6.0l LQ4, I have some others but this one is running and wasn't scraped because of a crash but because some guys did broke-in the Cantine box lol

americanthunder
12-23-2009, 12:17 PM
Ls6 cause it's built from the factory, tho one could argue the ls2 has more ci. Seat of pants feel and local races back a few years ago says stock for stock the ls6 is faster than the ls2, tho that could be because the c5 z06 is lighter.

They are a toss up, the LS6 has a more aggressive cam and sodium filled valves, and a better intake manifold the LS2 has more cubes. I had a 2005 Gto (LS2) my best friend had an 04 CTS-V (LS6) we raced a few times and hands down the LS2 wins down low, up top I say LS6 cause of the more aggressive cam. The c5 Z makes the LS6 look really good, but thats what happens when the car weighs 3100 or less with the very aggressive gearing. Guru if your going to boost it I agree the LQ4 is great for boost! I had a boosted silverado before and the LQ4 was the motor to have. The LQ9 would be another option it has a bit more compression than the LQ4 though it came in the cady SUV's and the Denali's. All depends what you wanna do with it. I vote LS7 though it will for sure break your budget [:D]

will175
12-23-2009, 01:14 PM
Just curious how much is a LS7? New or used?

americanthunder
12-23-2009, 01:48 PM
Just curious how much is a LS7? New or used?

I think they go for about 12k from gm brand new.. I think. I know the LS9 is closer to 20k [o_o]

nefkntym
12-23-2009, 01:55 PM
subscribed

will175
12-23-2009, 02:02 PM
I think they go for about 12k from gm brand new.. I think. I know the LS9 is closer to 20k [o_o]

Woohoo. Thanks bud for the answer. Some money right there.[:D]

GURUMAN
12-23-2009, 03:02 PM
Who needs ls7 when you can hae more power for less...

Here is 550 whp at 8 psi on pump...

LQ4 1200$ with ecu
custom harness 500$
T70 turbo 900$
custom eshaust 500$
charge pipe 200$
tune 300$

TravS4
12-23-2009, 03:09 PM
Also, the LS7 has high compression which is why GM went with the LS3 block for the LS9. And because there's a bit more space and strength between cylinders.

AWD87
12-23-2009, 03:13 PM
LS in a S4?! Pretty badass idea [up]. I always wanted to see that. Keep us updated

blackedoutb5
12-23-2009, 03:26 PM
nice to see some more stepchild crossbreeding between american and german [:D] Keep it up, I wanna see how the front end fits, it was tight for me...

sweetsound2001
12-23-2009, 03:28 PM
Who needs ls7 when you can hae more power for less...

Here is 550 whp at 8 psi on pump...

LQ4 1200$ with ecu
custom harness 500$
T70 turbo 900$
custom eshaust 500$
charge pipe 200$
tune 300$

How much labor and custom machined parts to make it all work?

GURUMAN
12-23-2009, 03:31 PM
How much labor and custom machined parts to make it all work?


Dont know yet, but not much for sure...

NYEuroTuner
12-23-2009, 03:32 PM
More pics, less talk!!!

GURUMAN
12-23-2009, 04:01 PM
interesting link...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-BMmv7J-9k

VMRWheels
12-23-2009, 04:22 PM
I'm not decided between LS1 or LS6

Ls1 is 1500$ Vs 2500$ for the Ls6

Fabing a turbo kit with a used gt40 will cost about 2k

I might go strait to remote single turbo that would be placed where the first resonator goes driver side...

That would give about 500 whp at 7 to 8 psi [:D]

Somebody can correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe the Ls1 block is the more desirable one for forced induction. Try to get an 01+ LS1, I know the older ones had an issue with piston slap. Some of the later model LS1's also came with the Ls6 block


performance wise, which one is better LS2 or LS6,i dont know anything about Ls motors thats why im asking,i have heard a lot about the LSX motor which one is that one?

LS2 is newer technology, it's the generation after the LS6. You can buy GM L92 heads for the LS2 for about 1k for the pair, a decently sized cam, and you're on the fast track to 450+ whp n/a. It's a beast of an engine.

antoanS4
12-23-2009, 04:25 PM
Somebody can correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe the Ls1 block is the more desirable one for forced induction. Try to get an 01+ LS1, I know the older ones had an issue with piston slap. Some of the later model LS1's also came with the Ls6 block



LS2 is newer technology, it's the generation after the LS6. You can buy GM L92 heads for the LS2 for about 1k for the pair, a decently sized cam, and you're on the fast track to 450+ whp n/a. It's a beast of an engine.

maybe 400 to the 4wheels

antoanS4
12-23-2009, 04:26 PM
Who needs ls7 when you can hae more power for less...

Here is 550 whp at 8 psi on pump...

LQ4 1200$ with ecu
custom harness 500$
T70 turbo 900$
custom eshaust 500$
charge pipe 200$
tune 300$

are you going this route

VMRWheels
12-23-2009, 04:29 PM
maybe 400 to the 4wheels

Ah, thats right, I was thinking rwd lol. less with an AWD system but still respectable!

GURUMAN
12-23-2009, 04:49 PM
are you going this route


Yup, I decided to sacrifice the Na stuff to get a simple cost effective remote turbo system.

I already have my FMIC / BOV

Oiling system

Custom exhaust (I have to make anyways)

Charge pipe will go inside the car.

These ecu's are so easy to play with, it's crazy.

obviouspro
12-23-2009, 05:05 PM
Charge pipe will go inside the car.


[o_o] that sounds crazy haha. How are you going to mount the motor? Custom subframe?

jrock
12-23-2009, 05:17 PM
I am now on the lookout for an ls2 just so I can turbo it and whoop my dads ass in his 05 GTO!

GURUMAN
12-23-2009, 05:21 PM
[o_o] that sounds crazy haha. How are you going to mount the motor? Custom subframe?


I might just swap the oil pan, it should fit right in.

I have space in front of engine... The rad support will be massaged...

http://www.agtronicmotorsport.com/gallery/guruman_02/Guruman%20059.jpg

blackbenzz
12-23-2009, 06:20 PM
LSX

AudiVWTech
12-24-2009, 12:14 AM
i did some measuring tonight. Looks like there is 20 inches from the transmission to the radiator shroud. the LSx needs 24 inches with the shortest accessories off of an LS4. With the radiator pushed forward a few inches and some slim fans I could see it working out. Also probably going to have to put the intake manifold on backwards and run the air intake by the cowling. LS4 engines are pretty available. Theres a couple on ebay for around 1500 bucks and LKQ also has them starting at 1000 bucks.

GURUMAN
12-24-2009, 04:02 AM
i did some measuring tonight. Looks like there is 20 inches from the transmission to the radiator shroud. the LSx needs 24 inches with the shortest accessories off of an LS4. With the radiator pushed forward a few inches and some slim fans I could see it working out. Also probably going to have to put the intake manifold on backwards and run the air intake by the cowling. LS4 engines are pretty available. Theres a couple on ebay for around 1500 bucks and LKQ also has them starting at 1000 bucks.

You read my mind, I was thinking about putting the intake backwards [;)]

BLACKa4QUAT
12-24-2009, 05:23 AM
tracking!!



awesome idea!! cant wait till you get an LS-S4 running!!

antoanS4
12-24-2009, 08:25 AM
How about the engine that came in the cyclone or the typhon

GURUMAN
12-24-2009, 09:48 AM
How about the engine that came in the cyclone or the typhon

Different adaptor, but done already for the LT1, so it would be possible ya.

Trigger Happy
12-24-2009, 01:37 PM
Yup, I decided to sacrifice the Na stuff to get a simple cost effective remote turbo system.

I already have my FMIC / BOV

Oiling system

Custom exhaust (I have to make anyways)

Charge pipe will go inside the car.

These ecu's are so easy to play with, it's crazy.

Thats so rice [>_<][:D]

jrock
12-24-2009, 11:23 PM
May seem rice but the LSx engines are like most engines where they need to vent the excess oxygen rather than redirecting it back to the engine. I am sure you could do it with some sort of fab work but I only see problems when using a dv with an ls engine just like using a bov on an audi.

shorterthanrich
12-24-2009, 11:56 PM
yes.

DannyLo
12-26-2009, 03:04 AM
i must say...i can't wait to see this marriage!

koolkoreanked
12-26-2009, 08:16 AM
If it's really only that much plus labor for me I'm selling my whole setup and going this route lol I've always loved the sound.

Edit: tho I've always found this funny

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/ehardy1971/LS1.jpg

RolledMySTi
12-26-2009, 12:17 PM
^^^LOL!

TravS4
12-26-2009, 12:52 PM
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj228/ehardy1971/LS1.jpg

lol! [>_<]

That's awesome!

djwimbo
12-26-2009, 01:11 PM
You read my mind, I was thinking about putting the intake backwards [;)]

I thought you were joking...

BUT, I approve. IIRC the manifold can't be mounted backwards though. It's been like a year since I played with an LSx though.

My LSx buddy (the guy who taught me what I know about them) is now shoehorning an L33 (all Alum 5.3L with LS6 cam) into his Miata.

I'll keep checking back on this thread.

[wrench]



My car will have the Ecu system from the Corvette, witch is 90% standalone by itself.[;)]

truth. The C5 ECU flashes in 1/4 the time of the F-Body ECU too.

AudiVWTech
12-26-2009, 01:37 PM
The manifold can be mounted backwards on any LS motor. The kit car guys do it all the time. The heads are indentical (they can be mounted on either side ot eh motor) and there are no coolant hoses or passages connected to the manifold. It's been done many times

The GM ECUs are all the same. The ECUs are only different in the software that is on them. You can take an ECU out of a truck and flash a camaro tune into it and throw it in a camaro plug and play. So it does not matter what ECU you end up with.


I thought you were joking...

BUT, I approve. IIRC the manifold can't be mounted backwards though. It's been like a year since I played with an LSx though.

My LSx buddy (the guy who taught me what I know about them) is now shoehorning an L33 (all Alum 5.3L with LS6 cam) into his Miata.

I'll keep checking back on this thread.

[wrench]




truth. The C5 ECU flashes in 1/4 the time of the F-Body ECU too.

skele4door
12-26-2009, 02:01 PM
You can swap the intake mani and have it point backwards. You just need to do the same thing with the fuels rails and coolant crossovers.

RocketSurgeon
12-26-2009, 02:23 PM
Any ETA on completion?

I might have to follow suit and do this after you. I was going to try to sell my S4 this winter but after seeing this I think this is what I want to do

djwimbo
12-26-2009, 02:34 PM
The manifold can be mounted backwards on any LS motor. The kit car guys do it all the time.

So it does not matter what ECU you end up with.

Yea, I realized that later. I remember somebody talking about it awhile back.

The ECU's are not identical. The '02 F-Body ECU only uses about 60% of the pins in the ECU connections, VS the C5s, where they use about 95% of them.
I've flashed both from the same laptop with very similar files, and the F-Body ECU literally takes 4x longer to re-flash.

AudiVWTech
12-26-2009, 05:31 PM
Yea, I realized that later. I remember somebody talking about it awhile back.

The ECU's are not identical. The '02 F-Body ECU only uses about 60% of the pins in the ECU connections, VS the C5s, where they use about 95% of them.
I've flashed both from the same laptop with very similar files, and the F-Body ECU literally takes 4x longer to re-flash.
Oh. I guess I never payed attention to the flash times. But as far as the actual tuning goes and compatability, it doesn't matter what ECU you end up with, although, if you are using a truck harness, you have to use a truck base tune. You cannot hook a corvette ECU to a truck harness and tweak the tune, the tune has to start as a truck tune, but you can than copy the table from the corvette tune and paste them into the truck tune. Between the different cars and trucks that used these computers and harnesses for the LS motors, they were assigned different pin locations on the ECM, thus making it not possible to just plug a vette computer into a truck harness, without first flashing a truck tune into the computer.

I hope that made sense. Also some other things to consider when buying this stuff used:

If you want to use the drive by wire setup, make sure you get a harness that is wired for it already along with a ECU that has the pins in the corresponding spot on the ECU. The trucks were drive by cable till 2003. THey then switched to DBW. The F body's were all drive by cable. All vettes are drive by wire. All GTOs and G8s are dbw.

Another thing is that there is a GEN 3 and a GEN 4 LS motor. The Gen 3 motors have a 24 tooth reluctor wheel on the crankshaft whereas the gen 4 motor is a 58 tooth I believe. LS1, lq4, lq9, lm7, and the 4.8(whatever designation that is) are all 24 tooth motors that must use a 24 tooth computer and harness. The ls2, l76, 92, ls3, ls4, ls7, ls9, ll7, bla bla bla, are all 58 tooth motors with different style knock sensors. And most of those motors have wider angle rectangular port heads (ls7 style) making the earlier intake manifolds non interchangeable.

Theres a bunch of other small differences, but those are the main ones.

davenew
12-26-2009, 07:11 PM
Have to admit, pretty cool. Next thing you gotta do though, is deal with the engine-in-front of of the front axle bullshit. I want to see an S4 with near 50/50 weight.

Easy.. he can throw a spare S4 engine in the trunk. Done!:)

davenew
12-26-2009, 07:14 PM
They are a toss up, the LS6 has a more aggressive cam and sodium filled valves, and a better intake manifold the LS2 has more cubes. I had a 2005 Gto (LS2) my best friend had an 04 CTS-V (LS6) we raced a few times and hands down the LS2 wins down low, up top I say LS6 cause of the more aggressive cam. The c5 Z makes the LS6 look really good, but thats what happens when the car weighs 3100 or less with the very aggressive gearing. Guru if your going to boost it I agree the LQ4 is great for boost! I had a boosted silverado before and the LQ4 was the motor to have. The LQ9 would be another option it has a bit more compression than the LQ4 though it came in the cady SUV's and the Denali's. All depends what you wanna do with it. I vote LS7 though it will for sure break your budget [:D]

You can buy LS9 crate engine for around $19k.

GURUMAN
12-27-2009, 07:41 AM
Status:

No picture yet, I'm studying on ls1tech not to have suprises when I do the swap.

Swap is Forecasted end or January.

Adaptor plate ordered, should get in 2 weeks.

(I spoke to eric at Kitcarchassis and copied the link of this thread... He's looking forward to the extra Audi enthusiast that he wasnt aware of)

Clutch: Javad will hook me up with a Spec stage 3+ from an Audi 200.

Block: Got my hand on a LQ4 from a local Scrappy, will get it in a week.

Turbo: Yess it will happen, got my hands on a Turbonetics T66 good for 700hp.

Scavenging pump: Mike hooked me up with a Porsche unit.

GURUMAN
12-27-2009, 07:46 AM
Again guys, I'm sure this swap can be done in the 4k if NA...

Kit with stage 1 clutch 1350$
Lq4 1000$ with ecu
Custom harness 500$
Custom engine mounts: 200$
Exhaust keep stock one just need to be adapted with custom downpipes.
Fan and cooling ( the only part I'm not sure yet because of space)
We will see in about 3 weeks what we have to modify so it fits... I will provide pictures dont worry.

Mrsfourrings
12-27-2009, 07:54 AM
Great job Guru...I def. am keeping an eye out on this space!

gearhead1186
12-27-2009, 07:56 AM
any plans to touch the lq4 or you just going to slap the turbos on?

GURUMAN
12-27-2009, 08:08 AM
On The Lq4 on a budget,

you put a cam 350$ and a set of L92 heads (oem GM) and you have 500 + HP

This engine is crazy...

but I freaked out when I hears the sound of this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWYm7-HGSyY

GURUMAN
12-27-2009, 08:10 AM
any plans to touch the lq4 or you just going to slap the turbos on?

Intake for now, ls6 intake and stock cam, thats it[:D]

washyourrhands
12-27-2009, 11:16 AM
On The Lq4 on a budget,

you put a cam 350$ and a set of L92 heads (oem GM) and you have 500 + HP

This engine is crazy...

but I freaked out when I hears the sound of this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWYm7-HGSyY

dear god

antoanS4
12-27-2009, 12:09 PM
Status:

No picture yet, I'm studying on ls1tech not to have suprises when I do the swap.

Swap is Forecasted end or January.

Adaptor plate ordered, should get in 2 weeks.

(I spoke to eric at Kitcarchassis and copied the link of this thread... He's looking forward to the extra Audi enthusiast that he wasnt aware of)

Clutch: Javad will hook me up with a Spec stage 3+ from an Audi 200.

Block: Got my hand on a LQ4 from a local Scrappy, will get it in a week.

Turbo: Yess it will happen, got my hands on a Turbonetics T66 good for 700hp.

Scavenging pump: Mike hooked me up with a Porsche unit.

Nice Guru,[hail]you are the man

sCeRaXn
12-27-2009, 12:19 PM
Theres a guy local to me(sorta) that has an lq9 in an fc rx7. Those are the same things as lq4's just with flat top pistons(10:1cr i think) and a different intake, correct? If so then that will be a beast of an engine and respond really well to mods. Hes still all motor with a few minor bolt ons and hes putting down mid 400's. Good luck man!

GURUMAN
12-27-2009, 12:29 PM
Theres a guy local to me(sorta) that has an lq9 in an fc rx7. Those are the same things as lq4's just with flat top pistons(10:1cr i think) and a different intake, correct? If so then that will be a beast of an engine and respond really well to mods. Hes still all motor with a few minor bolt ons and hes putting down mid 400's. Good luck man!

Yes it is, just came as the HO version in the truck Vortec engines...

Caddy7
12-27-2009, 03:01 PM
How is the tune done? Someone mention 90 standalone, is there a good software for homebrew tuning GM?

AudiVWTech
12-27-2009, 03:04 PM
HPtuners and EFIlive are the two premier software programs for tuning GM vehicles. They allow you to change just about anything you want in the ECU giving you pretty much standalone style tunability.

antoanS4
12-27-2009, 09:28 PM
Yes it is, just came as the HO version in the truck Vortec engines...

Are you gonna be able to have AC, power sterring and all that, also what do you think about the S4 gears with the LSX motor swap?

GURUMAN
12-28-2009, 07:32 AM
Are you gonna be able to have AC, power sterring and all that, also what do you think about the S4 gears with the LSX motor swap?

Anything is possible, but I need to see it...

A/C wont be there, I didnt have on the car... It's only a matter of custom lines.

PS, for sure, custom lines.


LSX will take extra mesurements


A stock S4 motor spins at 6500rpm, so the ls.

Gears should be fine

Reich
12-28-2009, 07:44 AM
Mchant capot!!!!

suscribed[up]

Put a turbo on this GURU and deliver the drinks.

GURUMAN
12-28-2009, 08:06 AM
Mchant capot!!!!

suscribed[up]

Put a turbo on this GURU and deliver the drinks.

Turbo is bought already...

Turbonetics T66

0.96 A/R

http://d5otzd52uv6zz.cloudfront.net/group-97019390-cb16-4538-9413-e2935eddc6ca-350.jpg

GURUMAN
12-28-2009, 08:16 AM
Again guys, I'm sure this swap can be done in the 4k if NA...

Kit with stage 1 clutch 1350$
Lq4 1000$ with ecu
Custom harness 500$
Custom engine mounts: 200$
Exhaust keep stock one just need to be adapted with custom downpipes.
Fan and cooling ( the only part I'm not sure yet because of space)
We will see in about 3 weeks what we have to modify so it fits... I will provide pictures dont worry.


Kit with stage 2 clutch 1600$
Lq4 with ecu 1000$
Gm high performance Cam with walve springs 350$
Ls6 intake 500$
Harness 500$
EFI tuner 500$
Engine mounts/downpipes/powersteering line and others 500$

That good for 450 hp + 425 ft/lbs

put and oter 1000$ to swap to L92 heads, than you get to 500 hp +

Total: 6000$ to get to stage 3 + killer territory

sCeRaXn
12-28-2009, 08:48 AM
Yea...and going beyond stage 3+ power will be alot easier and much cheaper.

skele4door
12-28-2009, 09:05 AM
Kit with stage 2 clutch 1600$
Lq4 with ecu 1000$
Gm high performance Cam with walve springs 350$
Ls6 intake 500$
Harness 500$
EFI tuner 500$
Engine mounts/downpipes/powersteering line and others 500$

That good for 450 hp + 425 ft/lbs

put and oter 1000$ to swap to L92 heads, than you get to 500 hp +

Total: 6000$ to get to stage 3 + killer territory

Just FYI the LS6 instake will not work with L92 heads. If you plan to move to those heads you'll either need to get an L76 intake or something aftermarket. Just making sure you don't waste money buying things twice.

AudiTechS4
12-28-2009, 09:06 AM
Watching closely as i will be doing this next year with the funds from my s4 sale
the vehicle
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/auditechs4/A4%20Avant/SDC10022.jpg

GURUMAN
12-28-2009, 09:21 AM
Watching closely as i will be doing this next year with the funds from my s4 sale
the vehicle
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/auditechs4/A4%20Avant/SDC10022.jpg

LS2 in this car will equal MONSTER...

GURUMAN
12-28-2009, 09:28 AM
Just FYI the LS6 instake will not work with L92 heads. If you plan to move to those heads you'll either need to get an L76 intake or something aftermarket. Just making sure you don't waste money buying things twice.


Oups I dropped that one, but I'm sure for about same price you get something that fits.

Me I keep my 317 heads...

gearhead1186
12-28-2009, 09:35 AM
Oups I dropped that one, but I'm sure for about same price you get something that fits.

Me I keep my 317 heads...

For future reference. If you want to stick to the cathedral port heads you can pick up a set of worked ls2/ls6 heads from Texas Speed. Those are the 243 and lesser known 799 castings. They are a great company and offer a ton of stuff for great prices. The heads they offer are worked over by them but the heads are labeled as Precison Racing Components. They are a cheaper alternative to all out heads from AFR.

Texas Speed (http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/)

wdbdy2000s4
12-28-2009, 09:50 AM
Guru, shoot me a PM if you're looking for any parts. My neighbor has a few built LS engines and a lot of extra parts he's trying to unload.

gearhead1186
12-28-2009, 10:03 AM
Same here. I've got a spare set of 243 heads.

AudiVWTech
12-28-2009, 11:05 AM
The only thing that is gunna stink is the top gear revs on the highway. I dunno what the top gear ratio is on the 01E 5 speed, but the 6 speed is 3000 rpm at 75 mph. Thats a little much for a big v8 in my book. With a Diesel 6th gear swap though, revs would be more reasonable. The 6th gear gearing on the T56 transmission in F bodies and Vettes keeps the 75 mph revs at under 2000 rpm. I don't think we can get that far down with the diesel 6th gear, but the closer the better.

Storx
12-28-2009, 11:41 AM
The only thing that is gunna stink is the top gear revs on the highway. I dunno what the top gear ratio is on the 01E 5 speed, but the 6 speed is 3000 rpm at 75 mph. Thats a little much for a big v8 in my book. With a Diesel 6th gear swap though, revs would be more reasonable. The 6th gear gearing on the T56 transmission in F bodies and Vettes keeps the 75 mph revs at under 2000 rpm. I don't think we can get that far down with the diesel 6th gear, but the closer the better.

Do you know what rpms would be if you were to source an DRW/ERF TDI 6 speed trannys from europe??

here is the data on it...

DRW:
1st: 3.818
2nd: 2.105
3rd: 1.345
4th: 0.972
5th: 0.970
6th: 0.806
Final: 2.108

ERF:
1st: 3.769
2nd: 2.087
3rd: 1.324
4th: 0.977
5th: 0.975
6th: 0.814
Final: 2.129

I suck at doing the conversion to understand the speeds at certain rpms... if someone could post it up..

or if someone can find more info on the new KMR transmission in the 2010 Audi RS6/S4 's says both use the same manual gearbox and if that is true something is beefed up in them to hold the power.. and the stock clutch would be able to handle the LS motor torque and keep the rpms down...

GURUMAN
12-28-2009, 12:30 PM
Do you know what rpms would be if you were to source an DRW/ERF TDI 6 speed trannys from europe??

here is the data on it...

DRW:
1st: 3.818
2nd: 2.105
3rd: 1.345
4th: 0.972
5th: 0.970
6th: 0.806
Final: 2.108

ERF:
1st: 3.769
2nd: 2.087
3rd: 1.324
4th: 0.977
5th: 0.975
6th: 0.814
Final: 2.129

I suck at doing the conversion to understand the speeds at certain rpms... if someone could post it up..

or if someone can find more info on the new KMR transmission in the 2010 Audi RS6/S4 's says both use the same manual gearbox and if that is true something is beefed up in them to hold the power.. and the stock clutch would be able to handle the LS motor torque and keep the rpms down...


IMO, If your really depressed about that 6th gear, get the just the gear From JHM, but keep all the others

The fianl ration from the S4 is 4.11, if you dont want to have to change diff too...

AudiVWTech
12-28-2009, 12:51 PM
yeah, you can't swap the whole transmission out without changing the rear end out. I like the stock S4 gearing, I would just do the 6th gear swap. The JHM 6th gear units are a little pricy, but I think for a daily driver would be worth it.

NYEuroTuner
12-28-2009, 01:22 PM
Same here. I've got a spare set of 243 heads.

[up][up]

I vouch for mike, he grew up on American muscle, and he has built and is currently building some pretty sick Domestic cars/motors. Dude has a pretty impressive stable IMHO.

skele4door
12-28-2009, 01:54 PM
The most common T56 6th gear is .50:1. I'm running 4.10s in the RX7 and it works fine, but a numerically lower gear ratio would probably be a bit nicer since you can really lug these around at low rpm. I'm sure you'll be fine with the TDI 6th gear on the highway.

Storx
12-28-2009, 03:05 PM
i think if i do this swap.. im going to source an cheap yet somewhat valuable car/truck with the desired engine.. but has parts on it.. that could be resold for offset cost.. there are a ton of cars/trucks on craigslist around 1k with LS motors.. that would supply you everything.. even a baseline wire harness to swap over if wanted to...

Trigger Happy
12-28-2009, 04:01 PM
i think if i do this swap.. im going to source an cheap yet somewhat valuable car/truck with the desired engine.. but has parts on it.. that could be resold for offset cost.. there are a ton of cars/trucks on craigslist around 1k with LS motors.. that would supply you everything.. even a baseline wire harness to swap over if wanted to...

not a bad idea.

rharris
12-28-2009, 05:36 PM
Nice Guru. Ah, the sound of a small block chevy V8. :-)

Here's a little history. https://www.msu.edu/user/dupreer1/flyinghead/lt1q/phase1.htm

biketsai
12-28-2009, 08:24 PM
On The Lq4 on a budget,

you put a cam 350$ and a set of L92 heads (oem GM) and you have 500 + HP

This engine is crazy...

but I freaked out when I hears the sound of this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWYm7-HGSyY

Sounds like he is flying an airplanee. [drive]

TravS4
12-28-2009, 08:35 PM
Is the stock cluster going to be fully functional?

antoanS4
12-28-2009, 09:31 PM
Is the stock cluster going to be fully functional?

Good question

GURUMAN
12-28-2009, 09:37 PM
Good question

Will speak to mike R about this, for sure it's going to be fuctionnal, the only bug I have is the Rpm...

skele4door
12-28-2009, 09:54 PM
Will speak to mike R about this, for sure it's going to be fuctionnal, the only bug I have is the Rpm...

LSX have a 4 cylinder signal and looking through HPTuners I don't see any easy way to add a modifier and fool it into outputting a 6 cylinder signal. You might look into Dakota Digital's SGI-8. I don't think our gauges use a CAN bus, so it should be what you'll need.

BTW, I forgot to mention that you might want to swap some upgraded rod bolts and oil pump into your engine before you drop it in. The stock oil pumps have been known to randomly fail and the rod bolts are pretty marginal when you start making some decent power.

http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=127/category_id=287/home_id=59/mode=prod/prd127.htm

GURUMAN
12-28-2009, 10:05 PM
LSX have a 4 cylinder signal and looking through HPTuners I don't see any easy way to add a modifier and fool it into outputting a 6 cylinder signal. You might look into Dakota Digital's SGI-8. I don't think our gauges use a CAN bus, so it should be what you'll need.

BTW, I forgot to mention that you might want to swap some upgraded rod bolts and oil pump into your engine before you drop it in. The stock oil pumps have been known to randomly fail and the rod bolts are pretty marginal when you start making some decent power.

http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=127/category_id=287/home_id=59/mode=prod/prd127.htm

I'm putting Mahle pistons and scat rods for not even 1000$ [;)]

Prices for the Ls is ridiculous...

gearhead1186
12-28-2009, 10:38 PM
[up][up]

I vouch for mike, he grew up on American muscle, and he has built and is currently building some pretty sick Domestic cars/motors. Dude has a pretty impressive stable IMHO.

thanks for the kinda words!!

getting a parts car is a pretty good idea. somebody might always buy it to build a dragster or as a cheaper alternative to repairing a wrecked car.

good call picking up picking up rods. american stuff is cheap.

+1 on the oil pump. picking up a new or used ls7 oil pump is a cheap solution.

TravS4
12-29-2009, 03:37 AM
Will speak to mike R about this, for sure it's going to be fuctionnal, the only bug I have is the Rpm...

Sweet... Even if everything else works it wouldn't be a huge deal to use an aftermarket tach. There are some pretty sweet ones out there and they'd be even sweeter if they matched the S4 cluster lighting

wdbdy2000s4
12-29-2009, 07:15 AM
LSX have a 4 cylinder signal and looking through HPTuners I don't see any easy way to add a modifier and fool it into outputting a 6 cylinder signal. You might look into Dakota Digital's SGI-8. I don't think our gauges use a CAN bus, so it should be what you'll need.

You can recode the cluster to run off a 4, 6 or 8 cylinder signal so you don't need to fux with it in HP tuners. [;)]

and I'm pretty sure it's not using CAN bus like the later model cars either.

Storx
12-30-2009, 05:01 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ru4ybNpJ1g

these guys just took the old ecu and used it as the dash operator.. and used the new engines ecu for controlling the engine.. so they have 2 ecu's

Storx
12-30-2009, 10:25 AM
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs142.snc3/16955_268472747574_564827574_4614827_2647007_n.jpg
http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs142.snc3/16955_268846817574_564827574_4616608_8333315_n.jpg
http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs142.snc3/16955_268846827574_564827574_4616609_2377630_n.jpg
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs122.snc3/16955_268846832574_564827574_4616610_2712745_n.jpg



Another site has the specs you may want - http://www.audiworld.com/model/

O2VW1.8T
12-30-2009, 06:31 PM
Ok so im selling my Vr6 and going to buy a LSx, Which ever local deal i find i will buy it. But i really want a Lq4 or lq9. Having 400-500 N/A AWHP is going to be straight monster with the quattro traction....

GURUMAN
12-30-2009, 07:06 PM
Ok so im selling my Vr6 and going to buy a LSx, Which ever local deal i find i will buy it. But i really want a Lq4 or lq9. Having 400-500 N/A AWHP is going to be straight monster with the quattro traction....

Kool man, I wanna see as much as this swap as possible...

O2VW1.8T
12-30-2009, 07:22 PM
Kool man, I wanna see as much as this swap as possible...

Are you going to use drive by cable or drive by wire..

GURUMAN
12-30-2009, 08:11 PM
Are you going to use drive by cable or drive by wire..


By cable because I was already converted with the 034 system...

Caddy7
12-30-2009, 08:20 PM
By cable because I was already converted with the 034 system...

Do you know what it takes to convert if you don't have the 034?

GURUMAN
12-30-2009, 08:27 PM
Do you know what it takes to convert if you don't have the 034?

Ya just buy a 96-97 Audi A4 pedal and cable, it will fit any regular TB

Storx
12-31-2009, 01:38 AM
Ok so im selling my Vr6 and going to buy a LSx, Which ever local deal i find i will buy it. But i really want a Lq4 or lq9. Having 400-500 N/A AWHP is going to be straight monster with the quattro traction....


Welcome to the light man.. i am sure your pockets will love you for it..

But i really want a Lq4 or lq9
not trying to step on your toes man.. just wandering what you are planning for in the end result???
I have been doing a lot of studying and this is what i have come down to for ideas for the different motors...

LQ4= is nice stock setup if you plan on boosting (9.4:1 300hp Iron). can take up to around 600 crank horsepower easily without crank swap. Common swap on these is to run LQ9 heads with magic cam 4.
Issues: crank not forged and seems to be the weak point in these engines and head bolts tend to crack under anything more then stock HP...

LQ9= is nice stock setup if you plan to run N/A (10.1:1 345hp Iron). can take up to around 600 crank horsepower easily without crank swap before 2003. After 2003-2004 it was switched to an 23gram stronger forged rod w/forged crank so this is the desired year which has been proven to hold over 1000+hp.
Issues: Pre 03 crank not forged and seems to be the weak point in these engines and head bolts tend to crack under anything more then stock HP...

LS1= Is nice stock setup if you plan to run N/A (10.1:1 350hp ALUMINUM 305hp Iron). both are good up to about 500-550hp easily stock without any internal failure. Common swaps are Magic cam 4, LS6 heads and PPE 249.95 set of 8 ebay forged rods. Seen more then 10 built engines running these dirt cheap rods pushing at or over 1000HP at the wheels..on the forums when asking around for info.
Issues: rod bolt failure is common after 550hp on stock internals.

If you want to throw in more stuff go ahead.. this is just a collection of everything i was told by people who built these engines on the forums.. and through threads i read.
Oh ya the difference in weight between the Iron ls1 vs Aluminum ls1 is 73pds when stripped down to block, head, and intake manifold.

Storx
12-31-2009, 02:22 AM
Here is my list of mods and engine choice i think i will go with:

LS1 Aluminum 2001-2007 version
PPE Forged Rods w/arp bolts $295.95
Stock 10:1 pistons due to 2001+ have
Texas Speed Magic Stick 4 Camshaft 374.99
LS2 cylinder heads 325.00 pair from GM dealership re-manufactured
EFIlive 549.95
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP5uefxVh8U
this is the same setup a guy on corvetteforum did to his 2003 Z06 corvette minus the ls2 cylinder heads and he put down 541rwhp when tuned on EFI..

skele4door
12-31-2009, 07:45 AM
Here is my list of mods and engine choice i think i will go with:

LS1 Aluminum 2001-2007 version
PPE Forged Rods w/arp bolts $295.95
Stock 10:1 pistons due to 2001+ have
Texas Speed Magic Stick 4 Camshaft 374.99
LS2 cylinder heads 325.00 pair from GM dealership re-manufactured
EFIlive 549.95
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP5uefxVh8U
this is the same setup a guy on corvetteforum did to his 2003 Z06 corvette minus the ls2 cylinder heads and he put down 541rwhp when tuned on EFI..

Yeah I think you might be missing some of his mods. Nobody puts down 541 at the wheels with stock compression, stock LS6 heads and an agressive cam. He's probably got a small shot on there as well.

O2VW1.8T
12-31-2009, 08:46 AM
Welcome to the light man.. i am sure your pockets will love you for it..

not trying to step on your toes man.. just wandering what you are planning for in the end result???
I have been doing a lot of studying and this is what i have come down to for ideas for the different motors...

LQ4= is nice stock setup if you plan on boosting (9.4:1 300hp Iron). can take up to around 600 crank horsepower easily without crank swap. Common swap on these is to run LQ9 heads with magic cam 4.
Issues: crank not forged and seems to be the weak point in these engines and head bolts tend to crack under anything more then stock HP...

LQ9= is nice stock setup if you plan to run N/A (10.1:1 345hp Iron). can take up to around 600 crank horsepower easily without crank swap before 2003. After 2003-2004 it was switched to an 23gram stronger forged rod w/forged crank so this is the desired year which has been proven to hold over 1000+hp.
Issues: Pre 03 crank not forged and seems to be the weak point in these engines and head bolts tend to crack under anything more then stock HP...

LS1= Is nice stock setup if you plan to run N/A (10.1:1 350hp ALUMINUM 305hp Iron). both are good up to about 500-550hp easily stock without any internal failure. Common swaps are Magic cam 4, LS6 heads and PPE 249.95 set of 8 ebay forged rods. Seen more then 10 built engines running these dirt cheap rods pushing at or over 1000HP at the wheels..on the forums when asking around for info.
Issues: rod bolt failure is common after 550hp on stock internals.

If you want to throw in more stuff go ahead.. this is just a collection of everything i was told by people who built these engines on the forums.. and through threads i read.
Oh ya the difference in weight between the Iron ls1 vs Aluminum ls1 is 73pds when stripped down to block, head, and intake manifold.

Thanks for the info, i guess i will be looking for a LS1-2 then. I dont know if i'll cheap out on the rods but i might you never know lol... I want to keep it n/a for a bit as adding a turbo will be an extra cost that i dont have. Having 8-900awhp in the audi will make it a insane monster.

zerb
12-31-2009, 09:06 AM
what are everyones thoughts on the drivetrain staying together with these motors? i know they handle the power of the s4 motor, obviously GURU can attest to that, but these ls motors are a whole nother animal no?

wdbdy2000s4
12-31-2009, 09:30 AM
I think they'll be fine. We very rarely have seen people blow up drivetrains. It's very rare to find an issue with the Diffs caused by anything other then weak mounts or the crossmember, both of which are easily upgraded now. The s4 trans has held pretty much anything thrown at it(with the exception of weak shift collars, but those are also upgradeable). That just leaves axles, but you will need a turbo LS and some hard launches to start snapping those and at the point you can just go solid.

GURUMAN
12-31-2009, 09:39 AM
Band for the buck, Lq4 block from silverados, tahos are about 1k

I dont want anybody to think the ls1 or ls6 in anyways represents better alternatives.

Yes for a crate engine, but if you plan to open or turbo the motor, go for the cheapest engine.

NYEuroTuner
12-31-2009, 10:42 AM
Ok so im selling my Vr6 and going to buy a LSx, Which ever local deal i find i will buy it. But i really want a Lq4 or lq9. Having 400-500 N/A AWHP is going to be straight monster with the quattro traction....

Giving up so soon? lol

Storx
12-31-2009, 11:09 AM
Band for the buck, Lq4 block from silverados, tahos are about 1k

I dont want anybody to think the ls1 or ls6 in anyways represents better alternatives.

Yes for a crate engine, but if you plan to open or turbo the motor, go for the cheapest engine.

yes i know you say that when you look in junk yards. cherck out the forums that trade and build ls1's... you will see peeps selling engines for less then 1k easily. if you go on craigslist and look up vehicles that carry ls1's you will find alot of therm for really cheap. on ls1 forums you see part outs and find blocks and engines really cheap....just have to look....


-99/00 LS1 ALU stock block w/ internals 133k $300 (ls1tech classifieds)


used LSX block needs machining $200 (hardcorels1 classifieds)


used ls1 block $75 (ebay)



new ls1 block $725 (ebay)

you just have to be patient and look.. there out there dirt cheap... heck i ask a few friends i knew from local dragstrip and one of them knew someone with an ls2 block sitting in his garage that i could just have needs bored out with custom pistons because cylinder damage...but told him i take it...if anything i might use it if cant find a good usable block without needing being bored.......

GURUMAN
12-31-2009, 11:11 AM
Vr6 swap is a whole other animal...

But you got to rember you start with a 200 hp engine compared to a 350 hp engine for about same price even cheaper...

A question to you is are still able to run a conventionnal fan or you have to switch to a pusher type ?

djwimbo
12-31-2009, 11:33 AM
I dont know if i'll cheap out on the rods but i might you never know lol...

We ran SCAT rods in the LS1, and they're strong enough to handle a 150-250 shot of N20.
Through a C5 Z06 trans/diff, we did 425whp with the following.

Mahle 3.905 pistons, SCAT rods, hand ported and milled heads (~12.0:1 CR), G5 cam, lightweight and underdrive pulleys, lightweight valves/retainers/springs, FAST intake (with direct port) ... and the little things, like homebrew tuning (yay HP-Tuners), Z06 coils, better wires, hand ported throttle body, etc.
The time and effort was spent balancing the rotating assembly. My friend did it at the school, and he balanced the crank within 0.03grams of "perfect".

N/A, reliable, and built for like $2200? Yea, that was a fun car.

GURUMAN
12-31-2009, 11:57 AM
It's all a matter of preferences, me instead of paying 1500$ + for heads and cam combo, I prefer running 8 to 10psi on stock heads, block and stock ls6 cam

djwimbo
12-31-2009, 01:25 PM
that is the beauty of the LSx scene. You can get good stock cams used for like $50.

They don't perform like a good lumpy cam, but they are great for the sleeper sound. The problem with big cams is that they need higher RPM to actually do much, and you lose low end torque.

GURUMAN
12-31-2009, 03:12 PM
I think I will wait to se the condition of my engine before deciding to forge it...

People have seen 600whp + on stock lq4's only with ls6 cam and ls6 valvesprings...

These LS engines are crazy, It's seems endless the power thay can achieve...

Storx
12-31-2009, 08:47 PM
I think I will wait to se the condition of my engine before deciding to forge it...

People have seen 600whp + on stock lq4's only with ls6 cam and ls6 valvesprings...

These LS engines are crazy, It's seems endless the power thay can achieve...


dont forget the ls2 heads arre the same as the ls6 except the expensive sodium filled valves.. actually i read there better if you plan to run force induction over trhe ls6 because the ls6 heads are hallow and cant hold to the heat.

GURUMAN
12-31-2009, 11:07 PM
dont forget the ls2 heads arre the same as the ls6 except the expensive sodium filled valves.. actually i read there better if you plan to run force induction over trhe ls6 because the ls6 heads are hallow and cant hold to the heat.

I will keep my LQ4 317 heads but swap for Z06 springs...

Storx
01-01-2010, 02:36 AM
been doing some studying and seems like there are a few different ways to go for the wireharness..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260386101446&crlp=1_263602_263622&ff4=263602_263622&viewitem=&guid=59bc52261250a02652f17331ffa9825c&rvr_id=&ua=WVI7&itemid=260386101446

http://ls1wiringharness.com/gpage2.html

here is downloads charts of the complete engine wire harness of the ls1 in an corvette.. i was reading that is practically the exact same diagram on all ls1's except transmission/smog changes which are no big deal...these links were what most of the solstice ls1 guys went off of when doing there swap. apparently from what i read is that our stock audi cluster speed/rpms should work.. but might be just slightly off... but should work...

1999-2004 LS1
Page 1 (http://ls1wiringharness.com/downloads/2003_vette_auto_DWG1.pdf)
Page 2 (http://ls1wiringharness.com/downloads/2003_vette_auto_DWG2.pdf)
Page 3 (http://ls1wiringharness.com/downloads/2003_vette_auto_DWG3.pdf)
Page 4 (http://ls1wiringharness.com/downloads/2003_vette_auto_DWG4.pdf)

Storx
01-01-2010, 02:59 AM
I will keep my LQ4 317 heads but swap for Z06 springs...

hey make sure you do some good DIY please for this conversion.. as im going to be going the same route when i get back from being deployed with the military.. haha.. im actually getting sent to Menwith Hill, UK when i get back from this tour.. so i going to be trying out an TDI tranny if i can find one decent.. but im going to taking leave for 30 days when i get back.. throwing an LS engine in my Audi A4 to take to UK so i dont have to worry about shipping parts from US to UK when i get there.. i am probably going to start buying some of the parts and have a friend in the states that i talk to.. start putting the engine together.. and have it ready to be installed.. or better yet.. if i can talk him down on labor.. maybe have him install it and wire her up..

GURUMAN
01-01-2010, 07:30 AM
been doing some studying and seems like there are a few different ways to go for the wireharness..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260386101446&crlp=1_263602_263622&ff4=263602_263622&viewitem=&guid=59bc52261250a02652f17331ffa9825c&rvr_id=&ua=WVI7&itemid=260386101446

http://ls1wiringharness.com/gpage2.html

here is downloads charts of the complete engine wire harness of the ls1 in an corvette.. i was reading that is practically the exact same diagram on all ls1's except transmission/smog changes which are no big deal...these links were what most of the solstice ls1 guys went off of when doing there swap. apparently from what i read is that our stock audi cluster speed/rpms should work.. but might be just slightly off... but should work...

1999-2004 LS1
Page 1 (http://ls1wiringharness.com/downloads/2003_vette_auto_DWG1.pdf)
Page 2 (http://ls1wiringharness.com/downloads/2003_vette_auto_DWG2.pdf)
Page 3 (http://ls1wiringharness.com/downloads/2003_vette_auto_DWG3.pdf)
Page 4 (http://ls1wiringharness.com/downloads/2003_vette_auto_DWG4.pdf)

Ya but for under 500$, I will order one, I'm not the type of guy that will bust his ass to save a couple of hundreds...

As for DIY, I manage and desing 90% of my projects.
As for welding, assembling engines, electrical work, I leave this work to professionnals.

To much trial and error after all these years [;)]

I'm designing my own remote half way turbo system, that acording to my calculations should spool and perform 90% of if It was placed up front.

I decided to spend a max of

engine 700$
custom harness 500$
cam/springs 350$
ls6 intake 400$
Turbo 400$
custom exhaust 500$
wastegate 250$
tune 300$
Adaptor + clutch 1600$

5000$

Stuff I had in car from previous build:
fueling, dual walbro inline + fuel cell
custom intercooler FMIC
tial BOV
Dual widebands + display podi
Boost guage + logger


In theory, I'm good for about same power I had in my previous 30K setup

GURUMAN
01-01-2010, 07:33 AM
And I think the best part is this setup will never go over 12 psi !

And off boost, I have around 350hp and 340 ft/lbs witch is a lot more than the 2.7, 3.0 V6,VR6, L5...!

Storx
01-01-2010, 09:13 AM
And I think the best part is this setup will never go over 12 psi !

And off boost, I have around 350hp and 340 ft/lbs witch is a lot more than the 2.7, 3.0 V6,VR6, L5...!

i hear you man.. but i want to go with the stock ls1 compression ratio of 10:1 because i would like to have more efficient off boost power.. as well be able to run less boost then you for the same power or similar power while on boost.

I have a good friend who is really good engineer that i worked with back in North Carolina when i was stationed there that is giving me the free ls2 block he has a really sick Turbo Malibu that he drives daily... and there this really cool fuel setup that i always wanted to try on my 2.2L Audi motor.. but never got around to it.. He hasn't updated his site but he recently updated the setup were he is running off 87 octane off boost and E85 when under boost instead of 116. He got the idea from the motorcycle world when they started to come out with 2 sets of injectors for low-end and high-end because once you reach a certain size injector you start to loose low-end power due to the atomization of the injector head when under low cfm rates so the smaller injector is able to be tuned for much better response and power lower in the rpms and off boost....
But after installing it he tuned it to where he could run lower octane like 87/85 when out of boost for normal off boost driving to not spend all the money on 116 octane at the time to drive the car daily to work.. 45 mins as he did from the base for work. then when he wants the power.. he punches it and it switches injectors at certain boost to allow for the power of running race gas every time you want to. he has logged over 100k+ miles off the 87/116 idea and has recently reached over 10k+ on the 87/E85 new setup..he would run E85 full but there is not a normal station that sells it near our town in North Carolina yet.. so he uses it at cheaper alternative race fuel over 116 when he goes out of town and picks up a few tanks of it to bring home...
the E85/116 is used in a 5 gallon fuel cell and lasts about an month to 2 months depending on how often he floors it..

http://turbomalibu.com/dualfuelsystem.htm

Mrsfourrings
01-01-2010, 09:49 AM
i hear you man.. but i want to go with the stock ls1 compression ratio of 10:1 because i would like to have more efficient off boost power.. as well be able to run less boost then you for the same power or similar power while on boost.

I have a good friend who is really good engineer that i worked with back in North Carolina when i was stationed there that is giving me the free ls2 block he has a really sick Turbo Malibu that he drives daily... and there this really cool fuel setup that i always wanted to try on my 2.2L Audi motor.. but never got around to it.. He hasn't updated his site but he recently updated the setup were he is running off 87 octane off boost and E85 when under boost instead of 116. He got the idea from the motorcycle world when they started to come out with 2 sets of injectors for low-end and high-end because once you reach a certain size injector you start to loose low-end power due to the atomization of the injector head when under low cfm rates so the smaller injector is able to be tuned for much better response and power lower in the rpms and off boost....
But after installing it he tuned it to where he could run lower octane like 87/85 when out of boost for normal off boost driving to not spend all the money on 116 octane at the time to drive the car daily to work.. 45 mins as he did from the base for work. then when he wants the power.. he punches it and it switches injectors at certain boost to allow for the power of running race gas every time you want to. he has logged over 100k+ miles off the 75/116 idea and has recently reached over 10k+ on the 87/E85 new setup..he would run E85 full but there is not a normal station that sells it near our town in North Carolina yet.. so he uses it at cheaper alternative race fuel over 116 when he goes out of town and picks up a few tanks of it to bring home...
the E85/116 is used in a 5 gallon fuel cell and lasts about an month to 2 months depending on how often he floors it..

http://turbomalibu.com/dualfuelsystem.htm

Wow very interesting reading and implitation on the website![up]

speeding-g60
01-01-2010, 12:47 PM
hmmmmm. (i just wanted to sign that i been here and looked, Dom.)

[:)]

NYEuroTuner
01-01-2010, 05:08 PM
And off boost, I have around 350hp and 340 ft/lbs witch is a lot more than the 2.7, 3.0 V6,VR6, L5...!

True, but how many Cylinders, how much gas is burnt, and how heavy is the LS6 compared to the motors you've just listed?

[>_<] [:D] [:p]

GURUMAN
01-01-2010, 06:24 PM
True, but how many Cylinders, how much gas is burnt, and how heavy is the LS6 compared to the motors you've just listed?

[>_<] [:D] [:p]

Ls6 is about 40 pounds more than the 2.7... Vr6 I dont know ???

So my Lq4 will be about 100 pounds more than the 2.7...

Plus the turbo will be in the back where the first resonator use to be...

GURUMAN
01-01-2010, 06:25 PM
And for the cylinder war, this I really couldnt care less, My other car audi B6 is beeing swapped with a 4.2L at this moment...

Lets just say I'm a fan of the V8 sound.

NYEuroTuner
01-01-2010, 06:36 PM
^ lol [:p] [:D]

How long do you think this project will take you Guru?

GURUMAN
01-01-2010, 07:31 PM
^ lol [:p] [:D]

How long do you think this project will take you Guru?

It really depends on the time I get the parts.

I should recieve the adaptor the 10th

Engine is this week, than we test fit en of january,
I really think it will be possible to drive in march

getslideways
01-01-2010, 08:44 PM
so where are you going for the custom harness?

GURUMAN
01-01-2010, 09:12 PM
http://ls1wiringharness.com/images/MVC-007S.JPG
Part# 4823-0120-N $445

Made for truck type air fuel management unit, 4.8 5.3 and 6.0 Drive by Cable engines, No transmission, NON emission, 2-O2 sensors

Storx
01-01-2010, 11:56 PM
Ls6 is about 40 pounds more than the 2.7... Vr6 I dont know ???

So my Lq4 will be about 100 pounds more than the 2.7...

Plus the turbo will be in the back where the first resonator use to be...

LS1 Aluminum block weight- 120lbs

LQ4 iron block weight- 204lbs

3.2L VR6 bare engine weight head/block/intake/exhuast manifold no accessorys= 373 (255hp)

3.6L VR6 bare engine weight head/block/intake/exhuast manifold no accessorys= 401

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs122.snc3/16955_273347292574_564827574_4651927_5076944_n.jpg
http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs142.snc3/16955_273344262574_564827574_4651827_4808073_n.jpg
http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs122.snc3/16955_272512777574_564827574_4645065_2481093_n.jpg
http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs122.snc3/16955_272512787574_564827574_4645066_6570243_n.jpg

Storx
01-01-2010, 11:59 PM
http://ls1wiringharness.com/images/MVC-007S.JPG
Part# 4823-0120-N $445

Made for truck type air fuel management unit, 4.8 5.3 and 6.0 Drive by Cable engines, No transmission, NON emission, 2-O2 sensors

where are you ordering this from?

jrock
01-02-2010, 12:28 AM
Whats the chances of passing emissions through an obd2 check out here in co with an lsx?

Sscott09
01-02-2010, 01:34 AM
defiently considering doing this. I want a detailed log of this build before I start though.

Storx
01-02-2010, 01:42 AM
Whats the chances of passing emissions through an obd2 check out here in co with an lsx?

they make the ecu give all passing emission codes like they do on our VW/Audi motors.. the only difference would be the physical inspection.. i know you can retitle a car when you change an engine out as long as the engine is newer then the original car year.. so for example buddy of mine bought an Audi A4 and put an 3.0L V6 TDI engine from Europe in it and had the title redone by the DMV with the new engine specs.

GURUMAN
01-02-2010, 08:01 AM
STORX

Thx for all the added info, it's really good...

GURUMAN
01-02-2010, 08:02 AM
where are you ordering this from?

http://ls1wiringharness.com/gpage2.html

Storx
01-02-2010, 09:04 AM
STORX

Thx for all the added info, it's really good...

not a problem bro.. i have a lot of extra time on my hands while deployed so i am trying to do the homework to make this as little painful as possible for when i get back to USA...

I was surprised that the LS1 is literally the same weight as the Audi S4 engine.. the one that i found the weight on.. was weighted without the turbos but with the manifolds on the engine.. so once you add the weight of the turbo's you are looking pretty even trade for weight..

GURUMAN
01-02-2010, 09:17 AM
not a problem bro.. i have a lot of extra time on my hands while deployed so i am trying to do the homework to make this as little painful as possible for when i get back to USA...

I was surprised that the LS1 is literally the same weight as the Audi S4 engine.. the one that i found the weight on.. was weighted without the turbos but with the manifolds on the engine.. so once you add the weight of the turbo's you are looking pretty even trade for weight..

Same here, that's why I was saying the LQ4 is like 60 lbs more compared to the S4 drivetrain, it's crazy[:)]

Storx
01-02-2010, 11:10 AM
Check this out.. i was talking to a guy who was PMing me on LStech on telling me to run the LS4 engine.. i didnt know anything about it so i looked into it more.. found out some interesting facts.... He has one swapped into his Fiero and said that its a killer compact engine.. so i asked him for the weight.. and my eyes were shocked.. so i asked him for more info and if he knew which cars and trucks it came in...

http://www.zorly.com/images_corvette/2008/09/29/LS4%205.3L%20V8%20-%20Impala%20SS.jpg

LS4 All Aluminum Engine
Displacement: 5.3L / 325 cu in
Bore: 96mm / 3.78in
Stroke: 92mm / 3.622in
Compression Ratio: 9.9:1
Firing Order: 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3
Displacement on Demand Cylinders: 1-4-6-7 (also known as "Active Fuel Management")
Valve Lift (DoD version): 0.490" intake and exhaust (from GM spec)
Valve Spring Pressures (closed/open): 76lb @ 1.8" / 220lb @ 1.32"
Valve Diameter: 2.00" int. / 1.55" exh.
SAE Certified Horsepower: 303hp @ 5600rpm
SAE Certified Torque: 323ft.lbs @ 4000rpm
Maximum Rated Engine Speed: 7100rpm
Total Engine Weight (Dry): 388 lbs
* 2006-2009 Chevrolet Impala SS
* 2006-2007 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS
* 2005-2010 Pontiac Grand Prix GXP
* 2008 Buick LaCrosse Super

Storx
01-02-2010, 11:18 AM
he said the LS4 uses the LS6 light weight aggressive cam/valve package for weight saving.. so its compatible with any LS series cylinder head parts..
He said there is 2 other models that are all aluminum vortec 5300 engines...LH6 and LC9 which uses a lesser aggressive head package with a Power output of 285-295 hp and torque is 325 lb to 335 lb but weight is increased to 401pds.

Storx
01-02-2010, 11:22 AM
The Iron Block version of the 5.3L weight is 458lbs he said...

here is wiki data for this motor since he said its not the preferred engine he didn't have much info to tell me on it..
4800
[edit] LR4

The Vortec 4800 LR4 is a Generation III small block V8 truck engine. Displacement is 4.8 L (~293 cu in) with a 96.01 mm bore and 83 mm stroke. It is the smallest of the Generation III Vortec truck engines and was the replacement for the 5.0 L 5000 L30. The LR4 produces 270 horsepower (200 kW) to 295 horsepower (220 kW) and 285 lbft (386 Nm) to 305 lbft (414 Nm), depending on the model year and application. LR4s are manufactured at St. Catharines, Ontario and Romulus, Michigan.

LR4 applications:

* 2003-present Chevrolet Express 2500-3500/GMC Savana 2500-3500
* 1999-2007 Chevrolet Silverado/GMC Sierra
* 1999-2006 Chevrolet Tahoe/GMC Yukon

[edit] LY2

The Vortec 4800 LY2 is a Generation IV small block V8 truck engine. Like its LR4 predecessor, it gets its displacement from a 96.01 mm bore and 83 mm stroke. The smallest member of the Generation IV Vortec engine family, it is unique in that it is the only member of that family that does not feature either variable valve timing or Active Fuel Management. It is rated at 295-302 hp (220-225 kW) and 305 ftlbf (414 Nm) of torque for all applications.

LY2 applications:

* 2007-present Chevrolet Silverado 1500
* 2007-present Chevrolet Tahoe
* 2007-present GMC Sierra 1500
* 2007-present GMC Yukon

[edit] 5000

The Vortec 5000 L30 is a V8 truck engine. Displacement is 5,013cc. Bore is 95 mm, stroke is 88.4 mm. The compression ratio is 9.1:1.[22] It is a based on the Generation I small-block from Chevrolet. It was replaced by the 4.8 L 4800 LR4 for the 2003 full-size vans. In Van configuration it produces 255 horsepower (190 kW) net flywheel at 4,600 rpm and 290 ftlbf (393 Nm) net flywheel torque at 2,800 rpm. The engine uses a hydraulic roller cam and high flowing, fast burn style vortec heads. Differences include bore and stroke, intake valve size, and smaller combustion chambers. L30 applications:

* Chevrolet Express/GMC Savana
* General Motors C/K full-size trucks

[edit] 5300
[edit] Generation III

The Vortec 5300, or LM7/LM4/L59/L33, is a V8 truck engine. It is a stroked (by 9 mm) version of the Vortec 4800 and replaced the 5700 L31. L59 denoted a flexible fuel version, while the LM7 was the standard version of the engine.

Power output is 285-295 hp (213-220 kW) and torque is 325 lbft (441 Nm) to 335 lbft (454 Nm). Displacement is 5.3 L (5,328 cc (325.1 cu in)) from 96.01 mm bore and 92.00 mm stroke. Vortec 5300s are built in St. Catharines, Ontario, Romulus, Michigan, and Silao, Mexico.
[edit] LM7

The LM7 Vortec 5300 was introduced in 1999, and can be considered the "garden variety" version of the Generation III 5.3 liter V8's.

LM7 applications:

* 2002-2005 Cadillac Escalade 2WD
* 2002-2006 Chevrolet Avalanche
* 2003-2007 Chevrolet Express/GMC Savana
* 1999-2007 Chevrolet Silverado 1500
* 1999-2007 GMC Sierra 1500
* 1999-2006 Chevrolet Suburban/GMC Yukon XL
* 1999-2006 Chevrolet Tahoe/GMC Yukon

[edit] LM4

The LM4 was an aluminum block version of the LM7, and had a short production life. It should not be confused with the L33.

LM4 applications:

* 2003-04 Chevrolet TrailBlazer EXT
* 2004 GMC Envoy XL
* 2004 Chevrolet SSR
* 2004 Buick Rainier


L33 Vin code "B"

The L33 was an aluminum block version of the LM7, and was referred to as the Vortec 5300 HO in marketing materials. Power increased by 15 hp (11 kW), to 310 hp (230 kW), over the LM7, and torque was unchanged. It was only available on extended cab 4WD pickup trucks. Only 25% of trucks made in 2005 had the L33 engine.

L33 applications:

* 2005-2007 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 4WD
* 2005-2007 GMC Sierra 1500 4WD

[edit] L59

The L59 Vortec 5300 was introduced in 2002, and was a flexible fuel version of the LM7. Power and torque ratings matched that of the LM7.

L59 applications:

* 2002-2007 Chevrolet Silverado 1500
* 2002-2006 Chevrolet Tahoe/GMC Yukon
* 2002-2006 Chevrolet Suburban/GMC Yukon XL
* 2002-2007 GMC Sierra 1500

[edit] Generation IV

First introduced in 2005, the Generation IV Vortec 5300 engines share all the improvements and refinements found in other Generation IV engines. At present, four versions of the 5300 are in production: 2 iron block versions (LY5 and LMG) and 2 aluminum block versions (LH6 and LC9). All versions feature the Active Fuel Management system.
[edit] LH6

The LH6 with Active Fuel Management replaced the LM4 for 2005, and was the first of the Generation IV small block V8 truck engines to go into production. It is the aluminum block counterpart to the LY5.

LH6 applications:

* 2005-2009 Chevrolet TrailBlazer including EXT (through 2006)
* 2005-2009 GMC Envoy Denali
* 2005-2006 GMC Envoy XL
* 2005 GMC Envoy XUV
* 2005-2007 Buick Rainier
* 2005-2009 Saab 9-7X
* 2007 Chevrolet Silverado 1500
* 2007 GMC Sierra 1500

[edit] LY5

Introduced in 2007, the LY5 Vortec 5300 is the replacement for the LM7 Generation III engine. For SUV applications, it is rated at 320 hp (239 kW) and 340 ftlbf (461 Nm) of torque; for pickup truck applications, it is rated at 315 hp (235 kW) and 338 ftlbf (458 Nm) of torque.

LY5 applications:

* 2007-present Chevrolet Avalanche
* 2007-present Chevrolet Silverado 1500
* 2007-present Chevrolet Suburban 1/2 ton
* 2007-present Chevrolet Tahoe
* 2007-present GMC Sierra 1500
* 2007-present GMC Yukon
* 2007-present GMC Yukon XL 1/2 ton

[edit] LMG

The LMG Vortec 5300 is the flexible-fuel version of the LY5. Power and torque ratings for SUV and pickup truck applications are the same as each application's LY5 rating.

LMG applications:

* 2007-present Chevrolet Avalanche
* 2007-present Chevrolet Silverado 1500
* 2007-present Chevrolet Suburban 1/2 ton
* 2007-present Chevrolet Tahoe
* 2007-present GMC Sierra 1500
* 2007-present GMC Yukon
* 2007-present GMC Yukon XL 1/2 ton

[edit] LC9

The LC9 Vortec 5300 is the Flex-Fuel version of the LH6, and is found in 4WD models. SUV applications are rated at 310 hp (231 kW) and 335 ftlbf (454 Nm) of torque.

LC9 applications:

* 2007-present Chevrolet Avalanche
* 2007-present Chevrolet Silverado 1500
* 2007-present Chevrolet Suburban 1/2 ton
* 2007-present GMC Sierra 1500
* 2007-present GMC Yukon XL 1/2 ton

[edit] LH8

The LH8 Vortec 5300 is a variant of the 5.3 L Gen IV small block V8 modified to fit in the engine bay of the GMT 345 SUV and GMT 355 trucks. It produces 300 hp (220 kW) at 5200 rpm and 320 lbft (434 Nm) at 4000 rpm. It has a displacement of 5,328 cc (325.1 cu in). [23]

LH8 applications:

* 2008-present Hummer H3
* 2009-present Chevrolet Colorado/GMC Canyon

Caddy7
01-02-2010, 11:29 AM
And for the cylinder war, this I really couldnt care less, My other car audi B6 is beeing swapped with a 4.2L at this moment...

Lets just say I'm a fan of the V8 sound.


I have not heard much about turboing the 4.2L, is there limitations to that engine that I don't know of or why aren't there more turbo B6S4's out there?

Storx
01-02-2010, 12:07 PM
give you some ideas of what the LS4 is capable of under little bit of forced induction..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk9uU_3VHT0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys0Rg3Rqk5A

here an GXP with the LS4 with a turbo kit 505Whp @12psi on 91 octane...stock engine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NS03jBi-XQ

AudiVWTech
01-02-2010, 12:20 PM
I looked into using the LS4 engine but it will not work with the current transmission adapter plate that is available. The LS4 uses the GM front wheel drive bellhousing bolt pattern and therefore cannot be used in any rwd platform vehicles. The adapter plate that is currently on the market is for the 01e transmission to the rwd GM LS block. THe LS4 also has no starter provision. The LS4 starter is bolted onto the tranmission.

I wanted to use the LS4 do to the very compact accessory drive but seeing how that is not going to be possible, I will be buying an LS4 just for its accessories and then selling the leftovers. I'll throw the LS4 accessories on the LS2 I am picking up.

dubiraq05
01-02-2010, 12:34 PM
is there anyway to use the ls1 in a b6 a4 5spd?

Storx
01-02-2010, 12:34 PM
I have not heard much about turboing the 4.2L, is there limitations to that engine that I don't know of or why aren't there more turbo B6S4's out there?

I think the reason people are not using them is this.. on forums they said that the N/A version of the engine weight is 257kg... when i do the conversion that is a ground breaking...567lbs

this might be one of the reasons they went back to the lighter almost as powerful 3.0L V6....

Storx
01-02-2010, 12:37 PM
I looked into using the LS4 engine but it will not work with the current transmission adapter plate that is available. The LS4 uses the GM front wheel drive bellhousing bolt pattern and therefore cannot be used in any rwd platform vehicles. The adapter plate that is currently on the market is for the 01e transmission to the rwd GM LS block. THe LS4 also has no starter provision. The LS4 starter is bolted onto the tranmission.

I wanted to use the LS4 do to the very compact accessory drive but seeing how that is not going to be possible, I will be buying an LS4 just for its accessories and then selling the leftovers. I'll throw the LS4 accessories on the LS2 I am picking up.

go check out some of the swap sites.. there are adapters all over.. that mount the ls1 starter up to it.. we just have to find someone who be willing to change the bell housing adapter up a little.. Im pretty sure if you call up that guy that sells the kits now and talked to him about it.. he prob be willing to do it up for us.. since its just a change in the location of the holes.. thats all..the engine is 6 inchs shorter.. so it would make the mounting of the radiator and such much nicer... plus the weight advantage of the tightly compacted accessory's make is so nice for our conversion..

GURUMAN
01-02-2010, 12:39 PM
is there anyway to use the ls1 in a b6 a4 5spd?


yess it will fit

Storx
01-02-2010, 12:51 PM
more food for thought..was talking to guy on ls1tech he said that you could have a machine shop machine you out an spline adapter for the 26 spline end of the LS clutch.. so you can use LS series clutch if it would clear the inside of the tranny belhousing due to using a adpater plate.. giving you more room to run larger clutchs.. he said you can pick up an Katech twin disk z06 clutch for around 600 bucks.. and its rated for 809 tq...

dubiraq05
01-02-2010, 12:54 PM
yess it will fit

so as far as the tranny adapter any b5 a4/s4 tranny will bolt to a ls1?

AudiVWTech
01-02-2010, 01:01 PM
go check out some of the swap sites.. there are adapters all over.. that mount the ls1 starter up to it.. we just have to find someone who be willing to change the bell housing adapter up a little.. Im pretty sure if you call up that guy that sells the kits now and talked to him about it.. he prob be willing to do it up for us.. since its just a change in the location of the holes.. thats all..the engine is 6 inchs shorter.. so it would make the mounting of the radiator and such much nicer... plus the weight advantage of the tightly compacted accessory's make is so nice for our conversion..

The engine s not 6 inches shorter. Only the accessories are shorter. But the accessories are interchangeable with all LS motors.

GURUMAN
01-02-2010, 02:34 PM
so as far as the tranny adapter any b5 a4/s4 tranny will bolt to a ls1?

Yes

dubiraq05
01-02-2010, 03:20 PM
Yes

thanks man the s4 is officially for sale!!!! gonna miss but here come raw v8 power!!!

AudiVWTech
01-02-2010, 05:47 PM
give you some ideas of what the LS4 is capable of under little bit of forced induction..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk9uU_3VHT0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys0Rg3Rqk5A

here an GXP with the LS4 with a turbo kit 505Whp @12psi on 91 octane...stock engine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NS03jBi-XQ

Those first two videos are of a 5.3 truck engine. It's an iron block and low compression just like the LQ4. It's called an LM7

djwimbo
01-02-2010, 07:04 PM
L33 Vin code "B"

The L33 was an aluminum block version of the LM7, and was referred to as the Vortec 5300 HO in marketing materials. Power increased by 15 hp (11 kW), to 310 hp (230 kW), over the LM7, and torque was unchanged. It was only available on extended cab 4WD pickup trucks. Only 25% of trucks made in 2005 had the L33 engine.

That's the badboy I want (E36 swap). With a Fast intake, big TB and decent exhaust, it would make for a very fun car.

Or do the LQ9 block with the 4.8L crank, slight overbore, and total CI = 333. Which I could then make a badge from OEM BMW #'s to put on the trunk.
Higher revs (basically LS6 top end and cam) and great for light N20 use. Budget build and tire burner ... 2700lbs car with full interior.


http://ls1wiringharness.com/images/MVC-007S.JPG
Part# 4823-0120-N $445

Made for truck type air fuel management unit, 4.8 5.3 and 6.0 Drive by Cable engines, No transmission, NON emission, 2-O2 sensors

BTW, I can imagine shoe-horning it into a B5 will be comparable to the C5, but make sure you don't forget to do the connectors on the starter first, they're the biggest PITA of the whole deal.

Chandlerdoom
01-02-2010, 11:33 PM
how much was just the adapter plate? id love to buy a plate and when the moneys right go for the rest

AudiVWTech
01-03-2010, 01:23 AM
how much was just the adapter plate? id love to buy a plate and when the moneys right go for the rest

The guy sells it all as a package for 1350. Your best bet is to call Eric directly. His website is www.kitcarchassis.com His contact info is there.

Storx
01-03-2010, 01:36 AM
That's the badboy I want (E36 swap). With a Fast intake, big TB and decent exhaust, it would make for a very fun car.

Or do the LQ9 block with the 4.8L crank, slight overbore, and total CI = 333. Which I could then make a badge from OEM BMW #'s to put on the trunk.
Higher revs (basically LS6 top end and cam) and great for light N20 use. Budget build and tire burner ... 2700lbs car with full interior.



BTW, I can imagine shoe-horning it into a B5 will be comparable to the C5, but make sure you don't forget to do the connectors on the starter first, they're the biggest PITA of the whole deal.

good catch on the L33 i wander why he didnt mention it when he sent me the block codes that were aluminum.. ill message him on it.. to see if he knows anything about this engine..

Storx
01-03-2010, 01:45 AM
Those first two videos are of a 5.3 truck engine. It's an iron block and low compression just like the LQ4. It's called an LM7

were did you find that out??? this is the article i was linked to for the build...im not saying your lieing.. just wandering which answer is true...

'Vanilla poop with rust flakes'

See poop, see poop go, run poop run!

http://www.diyautotune.com/images/cars/parish/fairmont/DSC05038.sized.cropped.jpg

Sorry for that mental picture, but that's how Jim 'Parish' Neuenfeldt describes the color of this Turbo 5.3l Chevy powered Fairmont. And it only takes a glance to see why... but I think it's safe to say that no amount of the pink stuff is going to slow down how this car runs....

Built by Jim 'Parish', John Stevenson, and a handful of guys from Omaha, with the help of a whole bunch of guys donating parts and help, this rustbucket is more of a RustRocket... taking a class win in Hot Rod's Drag Week 2007 Daily Driver class with consistent 9.80's. Jim is no stranger to DragWeek-- take a look at his 10 second 5000lb 4x4 truck if you'd like, he took a class win at DragWeek the last two years in a row in that truck, this makes three....

You can read most of the details on the car in Hot Rod Magazine, there is a small spot on pg. 52 of the March '08 edition, and a six-page spread on the car in the April '08 HRM, but the high points are that it's running a Vortec 5300 Chevy LS4 motor from a GXP, a generic MP70 turbo, a bunch of ebay-special parts, and a ton of elbow-grease. We've been working with Jim for about 3 years now starting with that crazy truck I mentioned above which also runs one of our MegaSquirt EMS systems, and he came back to us for another system for the Fairmont. He's running a MegaSquirt-I PCBv3.0 Engine Management System and an Innovate Motorsports LC-1 wideband with gauge we donated to help the cause.

GURUMAN
01-03-2010, 08:46 AM
I'M going to work with Eric on a custom flywheel so a tilton style twin or tripple dics fits in this swap.

I will start with a stage 3+ from spec, burn it than swap the entire clutch flywheel combo.

Storx
01-03-2010, 10:46 AM
I'M going to work with Eric on a custom flywheel so a tilton style twin or tripple dics fits in this swap.

I will start with a stage 3+ from spec, burn it than swap the entire clutch flywheel combo.

not to say this in a ass way.. but i hope you keep us up to date on this.. and allow us to take advantage of your progress.. sorry that you be the one spending the dough first.. but hope you forgive us..

GURUMAN
01-03-2010, 10:57 AM
not to say this in a ass way.. but i hope you keep us up to date on this.. and allow us to take advantage of your progress.. sorry that you be the one spending the dough first.. but hope you forgive us..

I guess I'm really part of special R&D for Audi.

I really dont mind...

IF ever it comes out of control, like my other thread and everybody are ditching the 8k stage 4 buildups to get over 450 whp in Favor of swapping LS V8's

I will hook up with a vendor account, like Shawn/ARD/VAST did [;)]

Storx
01-03-2010, 01:33 PM
I guess I'm really part of special R&D for Audi.

I really dont mind...

IF ever it comes out of control, like my other thread and everybody are ditching the 8k stage 4 buildups to get over 450 whp in Favor of swapping LS V8's

I will hook up with a vendor account, like Shawn/ARD/VAST did [;)]

make sure you give me atleast 24 hours notice.. so i can make my last minute spending spree..

O2VW1.8T
01-03-2010, 04:49 PM
Found a buyer for my VR6 LOL, after i sell this and a few things i'll buy the adaptor plate, flywheel and starter from kitcars... The LS4 looks good found a few for about 1500 local and a couple under 800 bucks... guru thanks again for being the test dummy[:)]

djwimbo
01-03-2010, 04:51 PM
good catch on the L33 i wander why he didnt mention it when he sent me the block codes that were aluminum.. ill message him on it.. to see if he knows anything about this engine..

The downside to the L33 is that you can't do much with the bore. Any pistons would have to be stock bore, or custom made (0.010" over with custom C/R) since it's a sleeved Alum block.
The nice thing is that it's pretty stout (power to weight) stock, intake and cam package brings it to life, the down side is that it can't do a ton beyond that without spending more money. Light N2O use is fine, but F/I is limited(~7psi).

Like stated before, if you want to go big, the iron block is the best and also the cheapest.

The L33 runs around $1000-1400 for a "drop out" engine = ecu, harness, all belt driven accs, manifolds and longblock.

O2VW1.8T
01-03-2010, 05:35 PM
Dont know if i missed it but what oil pan would be use

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/817787-lsx-oil-pans.html

GURUMAN
01-03-2010, 06:25 PM
Dont know if i missed it but what oil pan would be use

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/817787-lsx-oil-pans.html

F body camaro or corvette pan are the one to look for !

skele4door
01-03-2010, 06:56 PM
The thread below will probably be useful to for deciding on pans when you figure out what kind of space you have. GM made quite a few changes to the designs to have better oil control, so if you can use one of the newer ones I'd suggest it.

If you end up needing to notch the pan you'll probably want to get a new pan from GM BTW. They are pretty porous and it's hard to get used ones clean enough to weld properly. Make sure you order the pickup for the pan you get and replace the O-ring as well.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/817787-lsx-oil-pans.html

AudiVWTech
01-03-2010, 10:19 PM
The Gto pan is going to work the best. The Gto pan is a front sump just like the 1.8t pan. The vette and the f body pan are going to have to be modified. The Gto pan looks like it's going to be a bolt in.

revhards4
01-04-2010, 12:10 AM
hate to change the subject just a bit but has anyone looked into fitting a GMC Cyclone or Typhoon automatic transmission to the LSx. Would be great to have a beefy auto with a built/turbo lsx motor.

AudiVWTech
01-04-2010, 01:10 AM
the typhoon transmission is just a rear wheel drive trans with a transfer case on the back of it that send power up through an external driveshaft to a front differential just like a conventional 4x4 truck. This kind of all wheel drive setup would be virtually impossible to adapt to our cars

Storx
01-04-2010, 01:43 AM
hate to change the subject just a bit but has anyone looked into fitting a GMC Cyclone or Typhoon automatic transmission to the LSx. Would be great to have a beefy auto with a built/turbo lsx motor.

I prefer the manual over an auto any day of the week

Storx
01-04-2010, 02:39 AM
Found a buyer for my VR6 LOL, after i sell this and a few things i'll buy the adaptor plate, flywheel and starter from kitcars... The LS4 looks good found a few for about 1500 local and a couple under 800 bucks... guru thanks again for being the test dummy[:)]

Ya i really would prefer the LS4 aswell but i cant call the guy who sells the kits to see if he change the drill pattern to mount it to an LS4 engine because i prefer it for the sheer weight difference over the other engines.. plus people have turbo'd the aluminum ls4 with nothing but good results up around 800whp on the GXP's and fiero's that are running the LS4's

Storx
01-04-2010, 03:36 AM
found this video.. very interesting setup.. i wish i knew how they ran this AWD setup.. but it hooks so well...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_K3RjSUgUc

I dont even know anything about these cars to comment on its AWD LS1 setup...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwOr5hTXxGo

apparently it has a differential built into the oil pan assembly.. WTF!!???
http://liveimages.editorial.carsales.com.au/carsales/general/editorial/ge4954103124217302843.jpg

here is an 240sx with someone installing the AWD system from the Holdon Adventra into his car with an LSX.. its wierd concept but seems to work..
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w315/professor_speed/awdconversion1006.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w315/professor_speed/awdconversion1013.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w315/professor_speed/DSCN1058.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w315/professor_speed/DSCN1059.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w315/professor_speed/DSCN1060.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w315/professor_speed/DSCN1066.jpg

GURUMAN
01-04-2010, 04:48 AM
Ya i really would prefer the LS4 aswell but i cant call the guy who sells the kits to see if he change the drill pattern to mount it to an LS4 engine because i prefer it for the sheer weight difference over the other engines.. plus people have turbo'd the aluminum ls4 with nothing but good results up around 800whp on the GXP's and fiero's that are running the LS4's

Done, I emailed Eric with a picture of the LS4 bolt pattern.

Storx
01-04-2010, 05:31 AM
Done, I emailed Eric with a picture of the LS4 bolt pattern.

thanks man.. haha i really appreciate that.. i was dreading to call him.. as its an international call from here for me.. at a whopping $0.47 a minute.. since im deployed out of the country.