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View Full Version : one more thing gt2x vs k04



grillhands
11-21-2009, 09:53 AM
Is there a big difference between the two? what ive read seems to be what people heard and not was proven.

PoormansA4
11-21-2009, 10:28 AM
why wouldnt you go gtrs for a little bit more?

tdn
11-21-2009, 10:43 AM
I agree with PoorMan, I think both are a waste of time and money - when a good tune and the gtrs can be just as reliable. Then again, some will rightly argue that elims altogether are a waste... but anyway, I say go with the gtrs, for very little more.

Seerlah
11-21-2009, 11:13 AM
The GTRS bolt into stock components like the GT2x. The difference is the hp gains, potential with supporting mods, and oil cooled versus oil&water cooled.

PoormansA4
11-21-2009, 02:21 PM
they are kinda rare nowadays but i think they put down about 220awhp?

grillhands
11-21-2009, 04:11 PM
they are kinda rare nowadays but i think they put down about 220awhp?

What do you think a k03s usually puts down with everything in my sig? Maybe 170?

PoormansA4
11-21-2009, 06:28 PM
What do you think a k03s usually puts down with everything in my sig? Maybe 170?

have you messed with timing with your WMI? if not and your quattro id say around there or maybe a bit more but probably wont feel like that because more of the power cuts down after about 4k....

biketsai
11-21-2009, 07:25 PM
Either spend the couple hundred for a gtrs or just get the K04. I don't like the idea of a turbo being cooled only by one source whn every other turbo has both.

Seerlah
11-22-2009, 12:59 AM
Oil cooled turbos will need more cool down time compared to oil&water colled. This is where a tt can come in handy. The thing with oil only cooled turbos is that they are more prone to failure, due to people not waiting for their oil temps to reach at least 175*F and people not cooling them down properly.

OP, if you were considering the one in the classified ad for $500, I would not be surprised if he had to get it rebuilt for this very same reason. There really is nothing wrong with running oil cooled turbos, you would just need to pay special attention on maintaining it. Because staying out of boost is no easy task[drive]. But $500 is a great deal for the GT2x. And if you are still considering it, be sure that the lines come with it (coolant reroute and oil lines). And to really utilise any turbo application, you would want supporting mods. That would include the intercooler, high flow exhaust manifold (if using a turbo with the stock flange) and exhaust. Then other mods which would really be necessary, such as fpr, tune, and injectors.

The stock turbo is not all that great. And if you add all the bolts ons that you can, it would depend on what year B5 you have. I have an 01, and I would say I have around 225chp with all my bolt ons. The other years would not have as much.

grillhands
11-22-2009, 04:46 AM
Oil cooled turbos will need more cool down time compared to oil&water colled. This is where a tt can come in handy. The thing with oil only cooled turbos is that they are more prone to failure, due to people not waiting for their oil temps to reach at least 175*F and people not cooling them down properly.

OP, if you were considering the one in the classified ad for $500, I would not be surprised if he had to get it rebuilt for this very same reason. There really is nothing wrong with running oil cooled turbos, you would just need to pay special attention on maintaining it. Because staying out of boost is no easy task[drive]. But $500 is a great deal for the GT2x. And if you are still considering it, be sure that the lines come with it (coolant reroute and oil lines). And to really utilise any turbo application, you would want supporting mods. That would include the intercooler, high flow exhaust manifold (if using a turbo with the stock flange) and exhaust. Then other mods which would really be necessary, such as fpr, tune, and injectors.

The stock turbo is not all that great. And if you add all the bolts ons that you can, it would depend on what year B5 you have. I have an 01, and I would say I have around 225chp with all my bolt ons. The other years would not have as much.

yeah, im picking up the gt2x today off the classifieds. I dont plan on putting it in until i get a few more mods (or if my ko3s goes kaboom before that) I was thinking about installing an oil cooler to go with the kit to keep the temp down. Im not looking for insane hp, i just want to something that has more pep than the ko3s. I've read that the gt2x can put me in the mid to high 13s with supporting mods. I dont need a fast car(Low quarter mile with high trap speed) i just want a quick car(low quarter mile with low trap speed) With the WMI kit, i didn't touch the timing or anything like that. I'm just using it for the cooling properties that the methonal provides. On a summer day with the kit activated at 12psi, i can put my entire hand on the intake manifold and it would just be warm. Try that without having meth lol.

malanca
11-22-2009, 05:46 AM
Anyone noticed that the new GT2X seams to be watercooled? Could be a good alternative.

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=ATP-VVW-233&Category_Code=

Anyway, if I would throw out my K03 0073 to put in an eliminator I would definitely go for a GT28RS.

grillhands
11-22-2009, 06:33 AM
got the gt2x from shrimp6440 and it's absolutely amazing! The turbo looks brand new. He is no joke and i can't wait to throw it in [up]

Seerlah
11-22-2009, 06:56 AM
^Did it come with coolane reroute lines and oil lines?

Also, the new GT2x which is watercooled seems like a great alternative for people wanting to replace their stock turbo. The issue I see is that it costs $1,400. That is the same price as a GTRS, with less HP.

http://www.ctsturbo.com/products/B5_1_8T_GTRS_Eliminator_Hardware_Kit-236-1.html

But ATP is the maker of the Eliminator kit (I think they have a contract with Garrett to do so), and their distributers offer them for less. That oil&water cooled GT2x does seem very nice though. I might have to look into that in a few months if other distributers start selling them.

But back on topic, an oil cooler won't really be benefitial with just an oil cooled turbo. Or maybe it would[confused]. Oil coolers are really meant for people whom push their cars really hard and don't want to have their oil boiling over the average temp.

malanca
11-22-2009, 07:17 AM
I agree; oil coolers are intended for serious track use or long high speed travelling. In Germany many guys use oil coolers on their 1.8T due to high speed Autobahn trips. Last summer I did a ride with 150 mph for about 5 minutes and the oil temp raised incredibly.

grillhands
11-22-2009, 07:30 AM
No, it didnt come with the lines but i think it has the restrictor on the turbo already so thats one less thing to get. Im gonna have to get the lines unless i can use the stock oil ones and someone reroute the coolant.

Seerlah
11-22-2009, 07:51 AM
If you call up ATP, they should be able to provide you with whatever you need. The question is, how much will it cost you?? Why don't you ask the person you bought the turbo from what he plans on doing with the lines? Why not just purchase them off him?

malanca
11-22-2009, 08:29 AM
No, it didnt come with the lines but i think it has the restrictor on the turbo already so thats one less thing to get. Im gonna have to get the lines unless i can use the stock oil ones and someone reroute the coolant.

The coolant route isn't much of an issue. Just take some piece of suitable hose and 2 clamps; ready.

grillhands
11-22-2009, 09:45 AM
If you call up ATP, they should be able to provide you with whatever you need. The question is, how much will it cost you?? Why don't you ask the person you bought the turbo from what he plans on doing with the lines? Why not just purchase them off him?

I asked, he is going to a gt30 or bigger and said he might need them so he doesnt want to part with them

PoormansA4
11-22-2009, 06:35 PM
If you plan to track it id get rid of the stock oil cooling system and up it up, but other than that i doubt it will do much.

rn3037
11-29-2009, 05:39 PM
I just installed the new GT2X - yes it is oil/water cooled - comes with banjo fittings for the water feed/return... I'm running a k03 stock injector map, but the car hardly moves, it is very sluggish, the boost creeps up slowly - I'm doing some more troubleshooting

Seerlah
11-29-2009, 06:31 PM
So, it is a dual ball baering oil and water cooled GT2x? If so, that is a good deal for $500. You would need to get a tune and supporting mods to get it running correct. You currently have stock fueling and mapping. The GT2x has more volume, and the ECU is thinking that it is trying to push air and fuel for a turbo the size of the k03. You would need a proper tune for that turbo. Supporting mods can add up quickly at this point, but can be done for rougly $1,200 (this is price of new items, but there is nothing wrong with buying used). You would more than likely need a GT28 family tune, injectors, fpr, intake setup (the tuner will tell you what MAF you would need. more than likely it will be a 3" MAF. then you would need the TIP that has the 3" at the MAF opening and mod your stock airbox to make it fit), and intercooler. That should be it.

If you have a talk with a tuner, you can try and start to source out parts for cheap. Finf out what injector sizes you would need, what bar fpr, and what MAF. Then start sourcing out things for cheap. But until then, don't expect much out of that turbo. And don't forget an intercooler.

grillhands
11-29-2009, 07:24 PM
So, it is a dual ball baering oil and water cooled GT2x? If so, that is a good deal for $500. You would need to get a tune and supporting mods to get it running correct. You currently have stock fueling and mapping. The GT2x has more volume, and the ECU is thinking that it is trying to push air and fuel for a turbo the size of the k03. You would need a proper tune for that turbo. Supporting mods can add up quickly at this point, but can be done for rougly $1,200 (this is price of new items, but there is nothing wrong with buying used). You would more than likely need a GT28 family tune, injectors, fpr, intake setup (the tuner will tell you what MAF you would need. more than likely it will be a 3" MAF. then you would need the TIP that has the 3" at the MAF opening and mod your stock airbox to make it fit), and intercooler. That should be it.

If you have a talk with a tuner, you can try and start to source out parts for cheap. Finf out what injector sizes you would need, what bar fpr, and what MAF. Then start sourcing out things for cheap. But until then, don't expect much out of that turbo. And don't forget an intercooler.

Ive talked to a few places for the j-31 file and they said they wouldn't even chip it unless i had the front mount and full exhaust. Thats next on my list.

Seerlah
11-29-2009, 08:23 PM
You are not going to use a j-31 file. You should be using a file for the GT28xx family. That GT2x is basically a GT28R and I would not be surprised if it ran on a 440cc file. I am pretty sure you would use the tune specified for a GT28R with the turbo you have. Really, you can bolt that turbo up as you have it, keep the stock exhaust, stock manifold, and stock intercooler. Would I recommend or suggest anybody to run with the setup like that? Absolutely not. Call up Arnold at PagParts and he will help you with any information you would need. He can get you the proper tune (he is a CTapp dealer, and also the same person whom I got my ECU flash from. when I go BT, I will just upgrade with him) and is located in Queens, NY. Link (http://www.pagparts.com/)

Here is a list of what you would need to complete your setup and push around 230-50whp (prices are estimated):

Tune $750
Injectors $225
fpr $50
Silicone TIP to accomodate 3" MAF $250
3" MAF $100
Intercooler $350
Exhaust $500

You can, of course, source them out for cheaper.

Oceanside
11-30-2009, 02:50 AM
I agree with sheerlah. You really should get a gt28r program cause if you do decide to upgrade down the road to a 2860rs or something you can just swap the turbos. no going to be bad running slightly smaller turbo then what the file calls for

Seerlah
11-30-2009, 05:41 AM
^The GT28R and GT2x is rated at the same hp. That is why I am thinking they use the same tune. He should def have a talk with Arnold. And as far as I know, the GT28R, GT2860RS, and GT2871R, all use the same file for full frame turbos on 440cc injectors. But if switching to 630cc injectors, I am not sure if the fp will change with the tune. No expert.

maxspeed
11-30-2009, 10:06 AM
use a k04 map, ndbw have pulled mid 13's in the 1/4 with pc-16 tuning

michpan
11-30-2009, 11:00 AM
Hmm.. when was the water-cooled version released? Anyone knows?


Michael

grillhands
11-30-2009, 04:33 PM
You are not going to use a j-31 file. You should be using a file for the GT28xx family. That GT2x is basically a GT28R and I would not be surprised if it ran on a 440cc file. I am pretty sure you would use the tune specified for a GT28R with the turbo you have. Really, you can bolt that turbo up as you have it, keep the stock exhaust, stock manifold, and stock intercooler. Would I recommend or suggest anybody to run with the setup like that? Absolutely not. Call up Arnold at PagParts and he will help you with any information you would need. He can get you the proper tune (he is a CTapp dealer, and also the same person whom I got my ECU flash from. when I go BT, I will just upgrade with him) and is located in Queens, NY. Link (http://www.pagparts.com/)

Here is a list of what you would need to complete your setup and push around 230-50whp (prices are estimated):

Tune $750
Injectors $225
fpr $50
Silicone TIP to accomodate 3" MAF $250
3" MAF $100
Intercooler $350
Exhaust $500

You can, of course, source them out for cheaper.

Yeah, i'm gonna give them a call but it's probably going to be after the holidays. I don't think my wife will be too happy that i'm droppin money on the car when, of course, the money should be going to her[rolleyes]

Seerlah
11-30-2009, 06:42 PM
I wouild at least call Arnold to get things figured out. I was making a conjecture about the tune based on the premise of the amount of HP that turbo puts out. It is rated at over 50hp than what the k04-15 is. Other than what tune you will need, all supporting mods will still be the same to run your system efffeicently, while optomising it's potential.

maxspeed
12-01-2009, 09:19 AM
Tunes arent based off horsepower, there based off flow rates and timing curves scaled to how the boost builds, and for those values specifically the way ignition timing would be conducted in the upper and lower rpm ranges, the gt2x is closer to a k04-015 than it is a gt28

Doug@FrankenTurbo
12-01-2009, 10:19 AM
... the gt2x is closer to a k04-015 than it is a gt28

It is closer still to a K04-02x, though larger still.[cool]

PoormansA4
12-01-2009, 11:29 AM
It is closer still to a K04-02x, though larger still.[cool]

to bad they dont have a tune for that for our cars, would I suppose you could get a ko4-15 tune and use lemmiwinks to tweak it to work, best to call unitronics or go with ctapp (eurodyne)

Doug@FrankenTurbo
12-01-2009, 06:01 PM
to bad they dont have a tune for that for our cars, would I suppose you could get a ko4-15 tune and use lemmiwinks to tweak it to work, best to call unitronics or go with ctapp (eurodyne)

I know Unitronics has a good K04-02x MAP. And they likely have something even more tailored to a GT2x. They are aggressively adding tune variants all the time.

grillhands
12-01-2009, 07:18 PM
I know Unitronics has a good K04-02x MAP. And they likely have something even more tailored to a GT2x. They are aggressively adding tune variants all the time.

I'm gonna take a look at all the options out there. I have some time to get all this done. I dont want to rush it because it's my daily. All i want is reliablility with some fun behind it.

michpan
12-01-2009, 11:52 PM
If you haven't decided yet on the turbo, let me just say that gt2x is a great turbo. Builds power very quickly so the transition from the K03 will be very easy as opposed to the gtrs which takes some time to get used to. It can also hold the power till redline provided you have a good fmic and exhaust. It's very good for everyday use and the k04-015 is no match for it. I'm putting down 250whp at the moment, you can get nowhere near that with the k04.


Michael

PoormansA4
12-02-2009, 12:08 AM
If you haven't decided yet on the turbo, let me just say that gt2x is a great turbo. Builds power very quickly so the transition from the K03 will be very easy as opposed to the gtrs which takes some time to get used to. It can also hold the power till redline provided you have a good fmic and exhaust. It's very good for everyday use and the k04-015 is no match for it. I'm putting down 250whp at the moment, you can get nowhere near that with the k04.


Michael

sounds about right but strange since the difference between the two is about 15hp, FWD guys on here with ko4s put down 240ishfwhp but im sure doesnt pull as far up as the gt2x

UN-PIMP-Z-A4
12-02-2009, 03:40 PM
If you haven't decided yet on the turbo, let me just say that gt2x is a great turbo. Builds power very quickly so the transition from the K03 will be very easy as opposed to the gtrs which takes some time to get used to. It can also hold the power till redline provided you have a good fmic and exhaust. It's very good for everyday use and the k04-015 is no match for it. I'm putting down 250whp at the moment, you can get nowhere near that with the k04.


Michael
are you talking from experience? I have a full frame gt28r and I dont see a problem with my spool. Its boost later than stock like it's supposed to. So I have more go with out going into boost.

$500 for a full frame would have been ideal but make it work for ya...
and smh for all those that would buy a gt2x at the same price a gtrs costs.

Doug@FrankenTurbo
12-02-2009, 05:30 PM
...
and smh for all those that would buy a gt2x at the same price a gtrs costs.

For those who want to get into a Garrett without losing their car's original low-end pep, the gt2x is a good choice. I don't think the differentiation is price-based.

grillhands
12-02-2009, 06:27 PM
are you talking from experience? I have a full frame gt28r and I dont see a problem with my spool. Its boost later than stock like it's supposed to. So I have more go with out going into boost.

$500 for a full frame would have been ideal but make it work for ya...
and smh for all those that would buy a gt2x at the same price a gtrs costs.

I paid 500 for a fully rebuilt gt2x so i really couldnt pass it up.