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View Full Version : DBW K04 boost ?



EuroA4
01-04-2005, 09:32 PM
Just wanted to get an idea of what boost you guys are seeing on your K04 set-ups in healthy condition. I'm holding at a max of 16psi and I think there may be a small boost leak, causing me to loose a few psi.

AB18
01-05-2005, 05:40 AM
I was holding around 17 or 18 and spiking at approx 20psi.

ModifiedA4
01-05-2005, 06:02 AM
cold weather will cause some boost loss. when did the change occur?

marcini
01-05-2005, 06:18 AM
31psi holding at 25-26 and dropping,
of course it all depends on what kind of set up you're running and what the computer is programmed to produce
you most likely have a leak somewhere in the system, try pressurising it

EuroA4
01-05-2005, 06:58 AM
I have the K04 GIAC program from AWE, but it only goes to 20psi on occasion. I'm going to check for leaks this weekend I guess...what fun :P

Cold weather might have something to do with it I guess??

Marcini--> 31psi!! What software are you running?

JMG
01-05-2005, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by AB18
I was holding around 17 or 18 and spiking at approx 20psi.

that sounds like my KO3. Do they boost the same?

ModifiedA4
01-05-2005, 07:03 AM
Originally posted by marcini
31psi holding at 25-26 and dropping,
of course it all depends on what kind of set up you're running and what the computer is programmed to produce
you most likely have a leak somewhere in the system, try pressurising it

im pretty sure 31psi is off the K04 map. ouch.

marcini
01-05-2005, 07:27 AM
Originally posted by EuroA4
I have the K04 GIAC program from AWE, but it only goes to 20psi on occasion. I'm going to check for leaks this weekend I guess...what fun :P

Cold weather might have something to do with it I guess??

Marcini--> 31psi!! What software are you running?


Im runing GIAC J31 very unique just for MY2000, I love it, unbeliveble torque

OutkastSL
01-05-2005, 08:02 AM
wow, that's crazy.

does anyone know what giac program comes with the awe k04 kit? i have a 99.5. also what's the redline supposed to be, i did a search before and couldn't find it.

IndieRockSteve
01-05-2005, 10:38 AM
marcini what's unique about it? isn't hte J31 a standard program for the 2000?

marcini
01-05-2005, 12:58 PM
because it's only for 2000

EuroA4
01-05-2005, 01:15 PM
GIAC should re-do the program for the 2001 models...i want to have crazy torque too :)

ModifiedA4
01-05-2005, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by IndieRockSteve
marcini what's unique about it? isn't hte J31 a standard program for the 2000?

J31 is a special program for ATW with a FMIC

K05 is the standard k04 program for ATW

audlman
01-05-2005, 01:22 PM
17psi on stock K03, whaaaawhooo, lol.

greengravy
01-05-2005, 01:26 PM
im ran 17 psi on stock k03 as well, with ko4 it holds around 24

Kruat
01-05-2005, 01:38 PM
Man, the more and more I hear about the KO4, the more I'm leaning towards somthing bigger. I mean, for about a grand, not including FMIC, your only gaining 5-6lbs of boost over a chipped KO3. Whats that, like 15whp?

ModifiedA4
01-05-2005, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by Kruat
Man, the more and more I hear about the KO4, the more I'm leaning towards somthing bigger. I mean, for about a grand, not including FMIC, your only gaining 5-6lbs of boost over a chipped KO3. Whats that, like 15whp?

more horsepower does not mean more boost. boost means jack sh!t. (for the most part)

its about mass air flow. a k04 at 12psi flows more air than a k03 at 12psi, and therefore makes more power. same psi, different mass airflows.

greengravy
01-05-2005, 01:44 PM
hey go for it man... 24psi is plenty for me... its enough to toast 3 series and as far as im concerned thats all i really give a crap about... not to mention it beats stock mustang gt's and an occasional bad z28 camaro driver. i dont see the need to go any bigger than pushing 24 psi and if you are then maybe you should look for another car because i sure as sh*t wouldnt waste my money to end up at best around 275 hp? with a heavy ass car.

greengravy
01-05-2005, 01:45 PM
and before someone takes that the wrong way im talking the turrbo not all the other add on things you can do wcuh as intake, exhaust, things of that vareity that add hp as well

808a41.8t
01-05-2005, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by marcini
Im runing GIAC J31 very unique just for MY2000, I love it, unbeliveble torque
is the j31 software special order? where can i get this program? do you need a fmic or is the stock ic sufficient enough? im looking to do k04 real soon and i have my2000. tia

bjaro5187
01-05-2005, 02:51 PM
j31 is programmed for a fmic

mike-2ptzero
01-05-2005, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by 808a41.8t
is the j31 software special order? where can i get this program? do you need a fmic or is the stock ic sufficient enough? im looking to do k04 real soon and i have my2000. tia

You can ask for the J31 from any of the GIAC dealers. If they dont have it they can ask GIAC for it or you can ask Jeff Moss, EVO or Matrix.


Kruat:

Best bang for the buck is a K03 chip.
Next comes the K04 for about $1600 at 235hp (J31 makes 250hp)
Now think of the PES T28 kit and the APR stage 3 which cost about $4k not including the fmic either. They make about 275hp on pump gas.

Now lets say your going from 150 hp stock hp car. That means each step up is as follows.

Standard K04 kit= $18.82 per hp
J31 K04 kit = $16 per hp
APR/PES kits = $32 per hp

The funny part is that the J31 chip with the K04 actually makes more tq(320) then the larger kits on pump gas and about the same as the larger kits on 104 octane.

marcini
01-05-2005, 08:59 PM
^^^This guy really knows his stuff

Kruat
01-05-2005, 11:29 PM
Well, I guess I misunderstood how boost works. I was not aware that two different size turbos pushing the same boost will not make the same power. Now I know, thanks. [:D]

mike-2ptzero
01-06-2005, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by Kruat
Well, I guess I misunderstood how boost works. I was not aware that two different size turbos pushing the same boost will not make the same power. Now I know, thanks. [:D]


Another thing to add is that when the larger turbo is running at the same boost level the air flow is at a much lower temp which means that the tuner can adv the timing even more allowing for more power to be made on top of the extra air flow that is also increasing power. Just have to remember that boost is just the pressure in which the turbo is trying to push the air into the motor. What does increase/decrease power is the amount of air, air/fuel ratio, air temps and adv timing.

A4Andrew
01-06-2005, 12:23 PM
Since the J31 program is only for 2000, what are the #s with the same setup- larger injectors and FMIC for earlier years? And Giac have another program for earlier years right?

mike-2ptzero
01-06-2005, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by A4Andrew
Since the J31 program is only for 2000, what are the #s with the same setup- larger injectors and FMIC for earlier years? And Giac have another program for earlier years right?

Really not sure what the hp/tq levels are for the ndbw with the PC16 file. It just wont be as high as the J31 since none of the other K04 chips run nearly as much boost as the J31 or even the K05 version chip which is also for the 2000 running at 22psi. Best thing to do is try to find someone that has put their PC16 or K05 chipped K04 on the dyno.

94jedi
01-06-2005, 12:33 PM
It seems to me that the J31/K04 combo is optimized for street driving while the larger kits a geared towards thos who want to drag race all day. I'd be willing to bet that a J31/K04 properly tuned will walk a PESt28/ATP stg3 through the first 2 and half gears. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'd like to see compressor maps for all the turbo's offered for our cars. Too bad I'm too lazy to find them!

Oh and someone please tell me if this is true(since I'm new to boosting):

I've heard that every LB of boost within the turbo's efficiency range is worth about 10hp.

ModifiedA4
01-06-2005, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by 94jedi
I'd like to see compressor maps for all the turbo's offered for our cars. Too bad I'm too lazy to find them!



good luck finding a K04-15 map...I have been unable to find one...and i've searched...and asked...and searched...and asked...[:(]

AB18
01-06-2005, 12:44 PM
I dont know if the j31/ko4 will really walk a t 28 because ive never riddin in a t28 car. But i bet your right they will take the t28 of the line just because of the torque issue. The j31/ko4 makes more torque then the t 28. I think 10hp for one lb of boost is a optimistic, prolly more like 7 or 8hp.

clconversion
01-06-2005, 12:50 PM
the T 28 and the GTE28RS are going to be alot more lag than the K04 isn't it but how is the K04 in the top end

mike-2ptzero
01-06-2005, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by 94jedi

Oh and someone please tell me if this is true(since I'm new to boosting):

I've heard that every LB of boost within the turbo's efficiency range is worth about 10hp.

That really depends on the turbo. But the real gain with boost is the tq. If we look at the K03, the normal 150 hp car goes from stock 8 psi to 16psi with a gain of 45-50 hp. This means the gain is a max of 6.25 per psi. Now if you look at the tq gain per psi that same chip goes from 150 tq stock up to 245 tq with the chip. This means there is nearly a 11.9 lbs-ft gained per psi.

Now with my very large GT35R turbo on my A4, I am able to gain 15 whp per 1 lbs of boost added which comes out to about 18.5 chp gained per 1psi of boost added. The reason the larger turbo has a larger peak hp gain per psi then the smaller turbo is because the smaller turbo just cant hold its peak boost level at the point the car does hit its peak hp level.

mike-2ptzero
01-06-2005, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by clconversion
the T 28 and the GTE28RS are going to be alot more lag than the K04 isn't it but how is the K04 in the top end

Everything is related. If you increase the size of the turbo, you also increase the lag and increase in rpms where the power band is. This means the K04 will come on sooner then the T28/GT28's and have a power band that ends sooner then those too. From what I have seen most turbo setups will have around a 3k-3500 rpm power band. This is why the power band of the K03 ends around 5500, the K04 ends around 6k and the T28/GT28 kits end around 6500/7k but this also changes with each gear.

Kruat
01-06-2005, 01:16 PM
So then, the only way to really get a good 250whp is with a T28/GT28 kits? And the KO4's get around 200whp to 225whp?

EDIT- Nevermind, I realize my numbers are high.[:(]

clconversion
01-06-2005, 01:19 PM
Wooh slow down on the WHP #'s the Quattro takes a bus load of power from the engine to the wheels look at the S4 rated at 250 WHP 180

mike-2ptzero
01-06-2005, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by Kruat
So then, the only way to really get a good 250whp is with a T28/GT28 kits? And the KO4's get around 200whp to 225whp?

EDIT- Nevermind, I realize my numbers are high.[:(]


With the PES T28 kit I was able to get 225 whp on pump gas and 250 whp on 100 octane tuning. Most of the K04 kits will make around 180 whp and the J31 about 195-200 whp. This is all based on a 22% drive line loss. When looking at the K04 kit, dont look at the hp levels, since its the high tq levels that really sell the kit.

Kruat
01-06-2005, 11:37 PM
Well, I'm just trying to choice between a KO4 or bigger turbo. I know its the Tq that really moves the car, so maybe a KO4 will do.

Burntaudi
01-07-2005, 07:10 AM
I'm very happy with my K04 kit. I'm running the PC-16 file that Mike spoke of. It uses larger injectors with that file and a 3 Bar FPR....but would run better with a adjustable FPR dialed in at 2.7-2.8 bar. I also have PGK-16 file wich is also a K04 big injector file which seems to hold more boost than the PC-16. I just need to do some data loging and see which chip is faster.

ModifiedA4
01-07-2005, 07:17 AM
for the ATW is there a larger injector k04 file ? (or does the j31 use 3bar fpr and larger injectors?)

clconversion
01-07-2005, 08:22 AM
from what I've been told the J31 file forv the ATW uses a 5 bar FPR and you need a FMIC but you don't need to change your injectors

ModifiedA4
01-07-2005, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by clconversion
from what I've been told the J31 file forv the ATW uses a 5 bar FPR and you need a FMIC but you don't need to change your injectors

hmm id be interested in a lower bar FPR+injector k04 program for the ATW. i wonder if one exists...

marcini
01-07-2005, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by ModifiedA4
for the ATW is there a larger injector k04 file ? (or does the j31 use 3bar fpr and larger injectors?)

J31 uses 310cc red top injectors with adjustable fpr set between 3.5-3.8 bar whatever suits you better, fuel pressure you have to adjust untill it runs the way it is supposed to

I'm running at 3.5 bar and it seems little rich and little lean at some points

IndieRockSteve
01-07-2005, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by ModifiedA4
J31 is a special program for ATW with a FMIC

K05 is the standard k04 program for ATW

sweet, I have an ATW (do you have that stupid Valeo alternator too? I've gone through 3 in 1.5 years, crap *ss French engineers...). Once I get the FMIC I'll J31 it up!

marcini
01-07-2005, 11:44 AM
[rolleyes] [rolleyes] what alternator are you talking about????

pdxa4
01-07-2005, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by marcini
J31 uses 310cc red top injectors with adjustable fpr set between 3.5-3.8 bar whatever suits you better, fuel pressure you have to adjust untill it runs the way it is supposed to

I'm running at 3.5 bar and it seems little rich and little lean at some points

Just to stress here that the J31 file is for the 2000 model year specifically...FMIC is required...

Then one can run the J31 file with standard injectors and 5Bar FPR (which I did without issue) or if you want to then you can upgrade to the larger injectors and adjustable FPR...

http://images6.fotki.com/v74/photos/1/144548/527489/DSCF0048-vi.jpg

marcini
01-07-2005, 02:06 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by pdxa4
Just to stress here that the J31 file is for the 2000 model year specifically...FMIC is required...

Then one can run the J31 file with standard injectors and 5Bar FPR (which I did without issue) or if you want to then you can upgrade to the larger injectors and adjustable FPR...

http://images6.fotki.com/v74/photos/1/144548/527489/DSCF0048-vi.jpg [/QUOTE

did you run your car on the 1/4 mile or on the dyno?

IndieRockSteve
01-07-2005, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by marcini
[rolleyes] [rolleyes] what alternator are you talking about????

I have a Valeo alternator, which I keep getting replaced with another Valeo cause its always under warranty, but I think next time I'm gunna get the Bosch remanufactured version, its still a Valeo, but Bosch reman's it. I've had nothing but trouble with the Valeo, and all the reasearch I've done comes up with how to replace a Valeo alternator with a Bosch. BMW's, Lotus's, etc....

pdxa4
01-08-2005, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by marcini
[QUOTE]Originally posted by pdxa4
Just to stress here that the J31 file is for the 2000 model year specifically...FMIC is required...

Then one can run the J31 file with standard injectors and 5Bar FPR (which I did without issue) or if you want to then you can upgrade to the larger injectors and adjustable FPR...

http://images6.fotki.com/v74/photos/1/144548/527489/DSCF0048-vi.jpg [/QUOTE

did you run your car on the 1/4 mile or on the dyno?

It was ran on the dyno, but the MAF was shot at the time...never got a chance when it was running well especially that I had to sell the car.

no 1/4 miles for me, my baby just loved track days instead...
[;)]

ModifiedA4
01-09-2005, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by pdxa4
Then one can run the J31 file with standard injectors and 5Bar FPR (which I did without issue) or if you want to then you can upgrade to the larger injectors and adjustable FPR...


Sounds like the program was designed to run with a 5 bar fpr and stock injectors...

mike-2ptzero
01-09-2005, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by ModifiedA4
Sounds like the program was designed to run with a 5 bar fpr and stock injectors...

yes it was but some have found that setup to run a little lean up top. Reason is the 5 ba(72.5psi)+28psi= 100.5 psi at the fuel rail which is really pushing things. That is why some people went with the 310cc injectors and 3.6 bar FPR which keeps the fuel rail around 80psi at full boost.

ModifiedA4
01-09-2005, 06:51 PM
so with the 5bar setup you could run a MBC to knock the 28psi down a bit to not run as lean. probably cheaper than new injectors, but whatever works...[:)]