Clutch Masters FX300 Or FX400 6 Puck?

[Goped220]

I have a stage 3 APR Kit and I am making 320 WHP and 330 WTP. Which clutch would you recommend for daily drive with no chatter and stock pedal feeling? FX300 or FX400 6 puck?

Thank You

[Greg@DTH]

They are both great clutches, the FX400 obviously holds more torque than the 300 since it is considered to be their Stage IV setup.

The FX300 comes with a eight pad segmented disc and with the 400 you have the choice of a six wing or 4 wing. the 4 wing is the most aggressive of the three disks I have mentioned.

We are an authorized CM dealer and would be happy to assist you in your purchase in any way.

Please take a look at our website for more information, click the picture below

http://www.shop.dthaus.com/images/ClutchFlywheel1(1).png (http://www.shop.dthaus.com/category.sc?categoryId=91)

[I'm Aud!]

fx300

[ElectroMike]

I don't have experience with the above two but in my previous car I had good success with Sachs for daily driving and holding power.

Here are some links that may help you decide and answer some of your questions:
http://www.audiforums.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-135919.html

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4550107

[Greg@DTH]

The FX300 will be right at the threshold of torque with your setup, it will work, however you will need to be careful not to push it to hard.

Our turbo cars have a tendency to make quite a bit of torque in third gear when we are at full load, and the Quattro drivetrain grabs like a mofo.

You may overpower a FX300 in a few circumstances, I suggest going with a FX400 six wing

[EBG 18T]

i just had the fx300 w/ lw steel fw installed yersterday. The pedal feel is slightly softer than OEM and the engagement point is right in the middle of pedal stroke.

[infernocl]

i don't understand how a 4 puck is more aggressive than 6 puck.

seems like with the same pressure (plate) increased surface area should hold more torque

[ppcastel]

I got the fx400 6 puck, works like a charm, smooth as can be, much better than stock and I think the pedal self-adjusts (I think) which is nice

[Greg@DTH]

i don't understand how a 4 puck is more aggressive than 6 puck.

seems like with the same pressure (plate) increased surface area should hold more torque

Opposite, the clutch will not slip a easily as there is less surface area to displace the pressure.

Think of getting poked with a broomstick or a baseball bat, the broom stick will hurt more given the same pressure.

[infernocl]

impact is not the same as friction

[Jmaak]

Friction force = Mu*Fn
Mu = coefficient of Friction = some constant value for the material assuming no slip
Fn = Normal Force = force being applied normal (perpendicular) to the surface.

Pressure = Force / area

So assuming no slip -> less area = more pressure = better ability to hold torque.
Simple 5 min explanation.

[Goped220]

Greg@DTH-Is the FX850 Twin Disk to aggressive?

[infernocl]

but statically the total normal force does not change, so more force on 4 pads and less on 6 pads should yield same friction force since PP still supplies the total normal force and larger pad area increase coef. of friction.

[Jmaak]

You're right the applied force does not change. But we are looking at pressure which is inversely proportional to area. If you have less area with the same force you have greater pressure. You might be tempted to think of tires as anaology where more contact area equates to more grip, but that same theory can't be used to describe how clutchs work. This is because the surfaces are never conjoined (unless you're doing it wrong) durring normal clutch operation.

[infernocl]

a single pad with 100lb of force has the same friction as 2 pads with 50lbs of force...

so with 1200lb of force total and a given coefficient 0.5

with 4 pads, each pad would have 300lbs * 0.5 so 150lb of friction.

with 6 pads, each pad would have 200lbs of force * 0.5 so 100lb of friction force.

150x4 = 100x6

[smartyin]

i am using FX400 6 puck with ATP 3071R. it is gd to hold power, but you will feel abit shake/chatter at your first gear engagement.

[Jmaak]

You do realize there is a distinct difference between force and pressure right? Ok last time FORCE is same PRESSURE is different between the two setups. This is highschool physics it's not complicated.

If you think I'm wrong show me where my post was incorrect.

PRESSURE =FORCE/AREA
caps should help get that point across

[viziers]

I have the Fx400 and like it very much. I just have to get the power to go along with it! lol

P.S I was told from CM that the 4 & 6 pucks have a lot of chatter so they sent me the 9 segmented clutch disk saying it is a better match for the B7 A4 and this was by a guy i think his name is Louis from CM....

vizi

[infernocl]

friction = force * coefficient

there is no area in the equation, so 4 or 6 puck have the same force from the same pressure plate, just distributed among more pads.

i am familar with physics, and taken statics and dynamics, mechanics, and fluids

[Jmaak]

friction = force * coefficient

there is no area in the equation, so 4 or 6 puck have the same force from the same pressure plate, just distributed among more pads.

i am familar with physics, and taken statics and dynamics, mechanics, and fluids

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but I hope you don't have a college education.

[infernocl]

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but I hope you don't have a college education.

break out a statics book and draw a FBD
the pressure plate puts out a unit of force, the normal force generates friction from coefficient of friction, there is no area in the FBD.

[mike-2ptzero]

I have the Fx400 and like it very much. I just have to get the power to go along with it! lol

P.S I was told from CM that the 4 & 6 pucks have a lot of chatter so they sent me the 9 segmented clutch disk saying it is a better match for the B7 A4 and this was by a guy i think his name is Louis from CM....

vizi

The 9 and 8 pad segmented disks are mainly used when the person is still using a stock flywheel since the 6 and 4 puck disks cant be used unless a offset disk is used. The segmented disk is going to be slightly smoother on the engagement vs a 6 puck but when your going with a light weight flywheel its just better to go with a 6 puck.

When it comes to a FX400 setup with a light weight flywheel even Luis will suggest going with a 6 puck and is the setup I would also suggest at that point.



i am using FX400 6 puck with ATP 3071R. it is gd to hold power, but you will feel abit shake/chatter at your first gear engagement.

That will go away once you get past the break-in period. Even the FX300 will have that at very low rpms, but it too goes away after the break-in period. During the break-in period you can rev the car a little higher so it doesn't happen.


Greg@DTH-Is the FX850 Twin Disk to aggressive?

Greg really cant answer that question yet since he hasn't actually put his in his car. At this time I am the only one I know of that actaully has driven the A4 FX850 and that was with the kevlar/metal disks combo.

Fact is that it is very smooth and even with 1 metal disk. But at this point all FX850's for the A4 1.8t/2.0t are being made with 2 kevlar disks with one of them being sprung. Engagement is going to be very smooth just like a FX300. This setup has even been tested on a stage 3 S4 and the people that drove that car during testing loved the setup.

What I really like about the FX850 is the fact that it has a very nice pedal feel, it has some resistance and starts to engage just below mid pedal. I let people get into my car at Dubfest to feel the clutch pedal and every single one of them liked how it felt.