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View Full Version : Modding slave cylinder rod for lower engagement?



biketsai
09-22-2009, 10:34 PM
My clutch engages at a very high point, it is pretty tough to feel it if I need to go off quickly from a light especially since there isnt much room from when the clutch catches till the pedal is all the way out.
One of my friends said that he used to have a modded slave cylinder rod to adjust it, any ideas?
I basically want to do the opposite of this: http://www.a4mods.com/index.php?page=webcontent/pages/clutchadjustment.html&category=1

Chris

countershane
09-22-2009, 10:42 PM
I have seen this done, and am personally thinking about doing it. i just put a new clutch in and mine feels exactly as you are describing, i think it is common with aftermarket pressure plates. i was thinking about cutting(very carefully), or having it cut, like half an inch, at most. maybe a quarter. or finding a rod very similarwith a slightly shorter length.
I'm not sure how much to shorten it though. i have a clutchmasters pp btw

biketsai
09-22-2009, 10:50 PM
Yep FX400 here. I know that I should just man up and learn to find the engagement point but it is seriously tough at lights and stops signs especially when I have to shift back into first, then slowly find that spot.

Kyle H
09-22-2009, 10:58 PM
Just launch the car from the lights [;)]

Seerlah
09-22-2009, 11:12 PM
The engagement point on these clutches are very high. I bought my car with a brand new clutch from the dealership (I will assume they replaced it with an OEM Valeo Clutch) and was shocked at how high the engagement point is. After a while, I got used to it and actually like having it that high. Makes for fun drives, once you get used to it[drive].

My 2 cents is give it a while and see how you like it after a couple months (maybe half a year or so to draw a solid decision). If you don't like it by then, then try and construct a mod. You will get the engagement point after a while and actually start liking it that high. Makes for really quick shifts. It is when the clutch pedal gets too stiff where people usually start to complain. Like with the South Bend Clutches.

andyrew
09-22-2009, 11:14 PM
How long have you been driving it?

I think you'll get used to it... I think you CAN modify it.. but I dont think its a good idea....

Bimmerman
09-23-2009, 12:10 AM
This is my 2nd 5 speed A4 and I hate the highness of it. Would def be interested in a mod like this.

biketsai
09-23-2009, 06:20 AM
I've been driving it for about a month and a half. What are the benefits of a high engagement and how do I take advantage of those?

bl0wn3ur0
09-23-2009, 06:45 AM
I also have a high engagement point(FX400) but I got use to it. The clutch has about 2100 miles on it and I knw exactly where it engages. The benefit of a high engagement point is being able to shift quicker because you don't have to push the pedal all the way down to the floor.

countershane
09-23-2009, 08:14 AM
same^^ ive put about 1800 miles on it in the past 3 weeks. i do find myself slipping it by accident sometimes though, used to it being a little lower, but otherwise i certainly do like only having to push it a little. im just using a fx100, but im pretty sure it is the exact same pp :)

Broncoman75
09-23-2009, 08:16 AM
My clutch engages at a very high point, it is pretty tough to feel it if I need to go off quickly from a light especially since there isnt much room from when the clutch catches till the pedal is all the way out.
One of my friends said that he used to have a modded slave cylinder rod to adjust it, any ideas?
I basically want to do the opposite of this: http://www.a4mods.com/index.php?page=webcontent/pages/clutchadjustment.html&category=1

Chris
First off my car is the exact same way.. and Im pretty sure its a newer oem clutch thats in it... and I dont care for the feel either. BUT, If you shorten the rod your pedal will sit lower than the brake pedal.
It will lower the pedal, but the engagement point will still be at the top of the travel. I dont think you will see the results you are looking for. I think to truly fix this feeling you would need a thinner flywheel or a different clutch..

edit: oops I thought we were talking the master cyl. But still dont think you could do much to modify the slave rod.. If you cut it down maybe it would help by removing some of the preload but im not gonna try it on my car. You would probably need a whole different slave cylinder to change the engagement point down to the middle of the travel somewhere...

mike-2ptzero
09-23-2009, 08:25 AM
I've been driving it for about a month and a half. What are the benefits of a high engagement and how do I take advantage of those?
High engagement means quicker shifts and you dont actaully have to push the pedal to the floor every time you want to disengage the clutch, only to start the car if you have a clutch switch.


Clutch Masters makes their setup this way so that it has the same engagement point as stock or close to it, this way there isn't a huge change for the customer when upgrading from a stock clutch. The engagement point has to do with the stack height, finger travel(pivot point) and pre-load. CM is willing to make the pressure plate stiffer by heat treating it, this will bring the engagement down a little. They are also willing to do dual pressure plates to bring it down even futher. Both of those will increase the resistance feel of the pedal. Even a slight change in the pivot point(leverage lip) can change the engagement point.





You could make the slave rod shorter but this means the slave piston could over extend and pop. When doing this you should only do it 1/8" at a time and test it each time.

Broncoman75
09-23-2009, 08:29 AM
High engagement means quicker shifts and you dont actaully have to push the pedal to the floor every time you want to disengage the clutch, only to start the car if you have a clutch switch.



no doubt here that it makes for quicker shifts. its just sometimes a pain for a daily driver, especially starting off up a hill at a stop light like i do every day...

mike-2ptzero
09-23-2009, 08:47 AM
no doubt here that it makes for quicker shifts. its just sometimes a pain for a daily driver, especially starting off up a hill at a stop light like i do every day...

Yeah. Just have to get used to letting the pedal up to the friction point before letting off the brake to give it throttle. Not pushing the pedal to the floor all the time helps.

Its not so bad as long as there is a good amount of resistance to the pedal, its when the pedal is really soft that it becomes an issue to drive with a very high engagement point. I drove a Spec clutch like that and I hated it, didn't even like driving the car because of it.


The South Bend HD engages slightly lower and the SS engages at the floor. Both have a little more pedal resistance, SS more then the HD. Clutch Masters can also setup their kit to do the same thing, but its a custom option. I have even seen them doing quality control tests at their shop testing how far the fingers travel before the disk releases. Every single clutch order at CM gets tested before being boxed and shipped out. Got to see all of the Rialto shop on my nickle tour. lol

biketsai
09-23-2009, 09:11 AM
I think I also need to spray some WD40 on my pedal spring because it is a little spongy and that makes things a tad worse. Is there any ill effect if I dont press the pedal in far enough for shifting? Will the transmission get into gear only if i have it pushed far enough? Do I just press it past the friction point?
Mike I know you said it was okay to keep the clutch right below the friction point while sitting at a light, but doesnt that put more wear on the throwout bearing?

TIA Chris

Seerlah
09-23-2009, 09:14 AM
Once you find the engagement point and get used to it, you will become even more comfortable of the control you can have on that clutch with the engagement point so high. Shifts are incredibly quicker, and I am rather anxious to get the JHM kit. If you don't push the clutch in far enough in between shifts, it wil do just like any other clutch. It will grind.

biketsai
09-23-2009, 09:16 AM
Any other tips on what to do say when im coming up to a stopsign?

Seerlah
09-23-2009, 09:29 AM
You will become used to the clutch engagement point and actually start to appreciate it's height. Took me a little while to get used to it, and now don't want it any other way. I hardly use the brakes, and downshift to slow down (I tap the brakes when necessary to reach a desirable speed). You also save on gas by doing this. You need to get used to the engagement point and play with the point in conjunction with the brake and gas pedal[drive]. After I reach the point where a complete stop is necessary I personally press the clutch in a little further than the engagement point (driving style) and apply brake pressure. Since I know where the engagement point is, I sit right there until I need to start off again. Came to a point I can sit on a hill and apply little to no gas right at the engagament spot with no foot on the brake. You will get the hang of it.

biketsai
09-23-2009, 09:36 AM
Well normally I can drive it just fine, as long as I slowly find the friction point before a light turns green. Although things like rolling up to a stoplight, having to brake, come to a stop, then shift to first, and then slooooowly find that engagement point is what gets me. Haha I sit at the stop sign a while before I get going again

Seerlah
09-23-2009, 09:47 AM
Man, when I first got my car I was stalling left and right. LOL. I even had to replace my alternator because of one bad stall. You'll get used to it. The drive back from the dealership was no walk in the park[cool]. In NJ back up north so maybe a 45 min drive. I say you will get used to it because you will. It happened to me, and now I don't want my clutch any other way. You will develope your own driving technique with the clutch over time:

-how to play with the clutch, gas, and brake pedal
-when to shift into 1st
-speeds to approach an intersection just in case you need to still roll off in second (what I do is apply little pressure to have the clutch go into first gear when approaching a stop. if it goes into first with little pressure, cool. if not, then I keep rolling in 2nd. or I slow down enough to get it into first and just rip it. but you will need to become comfortable and used to the engagement point to do that)
-realising how much these cars love to drive in the higher RPMs
-etc


One of the perks of having the B5 in manual transmission[drive]

mike-2ptzero
09-23-2009, 10:02 AM
Well normally I can drive it just fine, as long as I slowly find the friction point before a light turns green. Although things like rolling up to a stoplight, having to brake, come to a stop, then shift to first, and then slooooowly find that engagement point is what gets me. Haha I sit at the stop sign a while before I get going again

Give it time you Ex Tip driver. [;)]

Kronic Budz
09-23-2009, 10:04 AM
dude first off. I am soo happy you swapped your tranny out! Your car is even more awesome now! You will enjoy it so much more as time goes on if you havent already.

also yes, it does take a while to get used to these clutches, the key is it get used to going from the floor with the clutch to the engagement point fast and then finishing slow through the engagement... hills can be tough but just releasing slow enough towards the engagement u should learn to get it... lettting the clutches out quickly will clunk these cars a lot and will cause awd clatter if you have already felt that. also, just be careful on the gas so u dont burn it up, esp if u have a good amount of power.


just give it some practice, the first time driving my car home was not pretty i tell you. the hardest thing for me was getting 1st-2nd smooth and starts. Just take it slow, let out the clutch and apply gas slowly until you understand exactly where it catches and your muscles memory kicks in...

shit dude, have fun

Kronic Budz
09-23-2009, 10:05 AM
why are all the s4 clutches engagement right from the floor and every a4 iv driven is towards the top? but then again, there are SOME clutches on a4's that engage quickly...

mike-2ptzero
09-23-2009, 10:08 AM
why are all the s4 clutches engagement right from the floor and every a4 iv driven is towards the top? but then again, there are SOME clutches on a4's that engage quickly...

Clutch design. I know the RS4 clutch is self adjusting(SAC) but that is one part of the clutch that people have had problems with and why most S4 guys stay away from that clutch setup. Most of them now go with the Sach Racing pressure plate or a Clutch Masters clutch kit.

If you have been in a A4 that has a clutch that engages near the floor it most likely had a South Bend clutch. I really like the engagement of my CM FX850 twin plate, it has plenty of pedal resistance and pretty much engages half way up. I let some A4 owners sit in the car at Dubfest to feel the pedal and they were very supprised at how good it felt.


Just talked to Luis at CM. He says they designed their clutch to feel just like stock. He also said that when you start moving the engagement down really low on the pedal you start getting "chatter" issues when moving the car from a stop in 1st or reverse. He says he has no problem changing the pivot point slightly to move the engagement point down slightly for people that really hate the really high stock engagement feel, this would be a extra charge but says if it ends up having chatter there is nothing he can do about it.

Broncoman75
09-23-2009, 10:19 AM
Im used to mine now, but I think the thing that took me a while is that my pedal is super soft and you cant feel any resistance.. its like you all said you just gotta get used to it and get the feel for where it engages..
Still if i ever up the power in my car im gonna go for a twin plate clutch and aim for some actual resistance in the pedal too

Seerlah
09-23-2009, 02:35 PM
Also, what mounts do you have? I have the 034 snub mount with bracket and that thing makes a world of a difference. Usually, one would need to ease into second gear, but now I can just drop the clutch. Makes me anticipate adding Stern motor mounts and 034 tranny mounts. I added the Stern Power Ring and need to install the rear diff carrier mount bushings. Lock that drivetrain down[drive].

biketsai
09-23-2009, 03:12 PM
Stock everything now, and I NEED SOMETHING!! I think ill order a snub pretty soon. My motor shakes so bad, one bracket has been hitting my FMIC pipe and almost gouged a hole.

speedydragon
09-23-2009, 03:17 PM
high engagement also makes it easy for rolling starts and no brakes on hills.

biketsai
09-23-2009, 03:23 PM
high engagement also makes it easy for rolling starts and no brakes on hills.

How so? jw

I think I need to get a new clutch master cylinder. I sprayed some WD40 today on the pedal spring and it didnt make a difference to the spongyness.

Seerlah
09-23-2009, 03:45 PM
How so? jw

I think I need to get a new clutch master cylinder. I sprayed some WD40 today on the pedal spring and it didnt make a difference to the spongyness.


You will become used to the clutch engagement point and actually start to appreciate it's height. Took me a little while to get used to it, and now don't want it any other way. I hardly use the brakes, and downshift to slow down (I tap the brakes when necessary to reach a desirable speed). You also save on gas by doing this. You need to get used to the engagement point and play with the point in conjunction with the brake and gas pedal[drive]. After I reach the point where a complete stop is necessary I personally press the clutch in a little further than the engagement point (driving style) and apply brake pressure. Since I know where the engagement point is, I sit right there until I need to start off again. Came to a point I can sit on a hill and apply little to no gas right at the engagament spot with no foot on the brake. You will get the hang of it.

[cool]

When you get used to the engagement point, you become very comfortable with it (I have not stalled in a very very very long time and would proably be embarassed if I did[:p]). When you are at the engagement point, the car rolls forward slightly. But since you are on a hill, so it will (want to) roll back. Apply very slight gas to accomodate for this while lifting your foot from the clutch just a tad from engagement point. Then when you are ready to go, give it gas while dropping the clutch and[drive].

Once again, give it some time and you will appreciate it. You need to develope your own driving technique from the clutch. And drivetrain mods is a must. I would recommend the 034 snubber with bracket for starters. My personal end result of what I want is Stern Motor mounts (soft), 034 street density tranny mounts, 034 snub mount with bracket, Stern Power Ring, Stern rear diff carrier mount bushings, and JHM complete shift kit. I am narrowing down that list peice by peice.

biketsai
09-23-2009, 04:12 PM
[cool]

When you get used to the engagement point, you become very comfortable with it (I have not stalled in a very very very long time and would proably be embarassed if I did[:p]). When you are at the engagement point, the car rolls forward slightly. But since you are on a hill, so it will (want to) roll back. Apply very slight gas to accomodate for this while lifting your foot from the clutch just a tad from engagement point. Then when you are ready to go, give it gas while dropping the clutch and[drive].

Once again, give it some time and you will appreciate it. You need to develope your own driving technique from the clutch. And drivetrain mods is a must. I would recommend the 034 snubber with bracket for starters. My personal end result of what I want is Stern Motor mounts (soft), 034 street density tranny mounts, 034 snub mount with bracket, Stern Power Ring, Stern rear diff carrier mount bushings, and JHM complete shift kit. I am narrowing down that list peice by peice.

Thats how I usually drive it, and has prevented me from stalling out in the streets. I maybe stall it once a week.

zrowcool
09-23-2009, 06:58 PM
you'll get used to it. At first i hated it so bad, especially since my last stick car was a civic that would engage if you curled your toes a bit. Now that ive driven it for 2 yrs, i love the high pedal. i wish i was able to feel it more in my foot but i can take off at lights and stop signs as if it was an auto. i like that i can push it in an inch or so and shift where the civic would have to go to the floor. i just need a stronger clutch now and install a clutch switch so i can have a full 5spd. Thats the only thing left.

Bimmerman
09-23-2009, 07:46 PM
Thats how I usually drive it, and has prevented me from stalling out in the streets. I maybe stall it once a week.


That is the thing, I have had my A4 for a few months and stall it all the time. I have been driving a manual every day since I was 16 (now 26) and I NEVER stall a car out. My engagement point it right at the top.

I want to lower it so bad I might take this on soon. It is driving me crazy, I have put 5000 miles on my A4 and I can not adjust to it.

AMJ
09-23-2009, 08:15 PM
I'm pretty sure I've seen a write up either here or AW on the slave mod.

Coming from a BMW with an engagement point about 1/2" off the floor, my first drive in the A4 was embarasing. I ended up reving to around 2500, then I found the engagement point. Then my face almost found the steering wheel. After a few hours of driving, it was much easier though; and it does make for quicker shifts.

PS, balancing on a hill using the clutch is a bad habit [down]. Learn where your engagement point is on the clutch and use your brakes to hold the car.

Seerlah
09-23-2009, 08:41 PM
I don't do it often (holding the engagement point on hills). I usually do it a couple seconds (~3 seconds) before moving.

But on topic, it seems there are many mixed reviews on the height of the clutch pedal engagement. Biketsai, if you ever want to do the rod mod, there seems to be a couple people whom are interested. I would preferr you to give it at least 6 months to conclude if you like it or not, though.

Bimmerman
09-23-2009, 08:47 PM
If someone comes up with or is making/selling the mod I am interested.

biketsai
09-23-2009, 09:13 PM
I think for now I am going to man it up. Any ideas for making my pedal less spongy? I was messing around with the pedal/clutch master cylinder today and its def squeaking from the clutch master cylinder.

Seerlah
09-23-2009, 10:07 PM
Less spongy? My clutch is rather stirdy. As for the sqeaking, try spraying the crap out of the master cylinder with silocone spray. I do that to my door hinge when it squeeked, and it has not squeked ever since.

biketsai
09-23-2009, 10:29 PM
Less spongy? My clutch is rather stirdy. As for the sqeaking, try spraying the crap out of the master cylinder with silocone spray. I do that to my door hinge when it squeeked, and it has not squeked ever since.

Lol is that safe? Do I just push the outer rubber boot in as far as I can and spray away?

Seerlah
09-24-2009, 07:15 AM
I wouldn't know. You would need to wairt for someone else to chimme in for that answer.

wpkaudi
07-18-2010, 12:35 PM
Yah redline first gear, tool the clutch pull aggressively into second. Uhm down shifts. I blip the throttle tap clutch downshift. I don't ever use my clutch on upshifts on the bike. Lol sorry.......

djwimbo
07-18-2010, 01:29 PM
Random thread revival ...


... I made a shortened slave cylinder pushrod, and it didn't do anything. Think about how the pressure plate is designed, and how hydraulic circuits work. Shortening the pushrod won't do what you want it to do. What you need is a different pressure plate, or a different throw-out arm.