ECU is dead...questions about flash and warranty

[Charles]

Ok, so last night my car just died. I got her towed and today they called saying the ECU is dead and since I'm flashed, it's not covered under warranty. Now, I'm familiar with the Magnussen-Moss Act, and I know that reprogramming the ECU will not cause the ECU to die. This is a hardware issue where the flashing is software. So, from what I understand, the dealer has to show how the flashing caused the ECU to die. Correct?
They've already called AoA and they said it's not going to be covered. What are my next steps? Am I wrong in my assumptions?

TIA!

[tselod05]

The flashing is software but your software CAN fail causing hardware to malfunction. It is possible that you had a glitch in the software causing the vehicle to no longer start. But if the unit is "dead" how were they able to communicate with the ECU and find out you were flashed ?

[elwigglero]

What's the repair charge?

[Charles]

So, the guy called and said the ECU was dead, that they couldn't even talk to it...then mentioned the GIAC Flashloader in the glovebox (which I forgot to take out), and then went on to say the warranty won't cover it if it's flashed, etc. I wanted to be upfront with the guy and not try to play it off as if it wasn't flashed, hoping he might "get" what I was saying and go ahead and warranty it. Evidently not. So they know it's flashed cause I told them after he mentioned the FlashLoader.
I didn't get an estimate yet, but I'm sure it's going to be outrageous. If they won't budge, I might get a used ECU and have hten install it as they'll have to recode the immobilizer anyway.

[schmally]

Any modification to a component will void that components warranty. if you already admitted to it being modded or flashed then you prob pissed away any leg to stand on..

[schmally]

Alot of times you will want to speak to the service manager, not the advisor. If the advisor is telling you this, then go over his head.

[Charles]

Doesn't Stasis use GIAC to flash their ECU's? Aren't they covered under AUDI warranty? What's the difference?

[scoobycarolan]

Any modification to a component will void that components warranty. if you already admitted to it being modded or flashed then you prob pissed away any leg to stand on..

Sorry...

[philaboy]

x2


What's the repair charge?

[Quattro]

they shouldnt be looking in your glove box to begin with, why did they do that? You brought your car in for a problem, nothing major is IN the glove box or really behind it (from my memory). They were just looking for a reason to void it.

If you told them it is flashed, you might be screwd, you can try to have them prove the flash did something, how long after the flash did this occur? 1 day, week, months? Might have to get your tuner involved as well, if it was a short time....

My best advice is try to fight it, but in the meanwhile you will have to fork over whatever the price is for an ECU. If they can't communicate with the ECU, then they cant prove you flashed it, although you did tell them. Maybe you meant flashed as in vag com mods?

good luck!

[ataylor]

Trust me.. after the hassle I went through restoring my warranty after it was originally voided for my software, I can attest that it is NOT worth battling for unless you're fighting for repair charges over $1k

[Quattro]

ecu should be over 1k?

[Charles]

I'm gonna stop by today after work and try to talk to the Service Manager.

I've been chipped for...6 months maybe, and like I said, Stasis uses GIAC and their stuff is warrantied by Audi, so obviously, Audi can cover a flashed ECU.

[scoobycarolan]

Their stuff isn't warrantied by Audi, they assume the warranty on your car through THEIR dealer network.

[Kolyan2k]

subscribed

[Charles]

Their stuff isn't warrantied by Audi, they assume the warranty on your car through THEIR dealer network.

Ahhh...well crap. That was another argument, but no longer valid.

I went by yesterday, but by the time I made it on the other side of town (we only have one dealer here) they were closed. I'm going to tall and talk to the service manager.

I mean, I honestly don't think I'm trying to get over on them. The ECU died, and given my technical background, I really don't see how GIAC sw can cause that. I'm not expecting them to fix something that my aftermarket stuff messed up. In other words, GIAC or not, my ECU would have died.

[Stea1th]

Editing software is a perfect excuse for them to say they won't fix it. It could very
well be the flash didn't cause it..but there is no way for you to prove the flash didn't
cause it.

If you never admited to it being flash you would of had a much better chance. I think
you might have to suck this one up.

[chaze]

Editing software is a perfect excuse for them to say they won't fix it. It could very
well be the flash didn't cause it..but there is no way for you to prove the flash didn't
cause it.

If you never admited to it being flash you would of had a much better chance. I think
you might have to suck this one up.
Looking back on ataylor's situation, I recall that one of the morals of the story was honesty and being forthcoming. IMO honesty is underrated in this world and CAN go a long way, but of course not all SAs place value on it themselves.

[davis449]

Any modification to a component will void that components warranty. if you already admitted to it being modded or flashed then you prob pissed away any leg to stand on..

Yes, but according to the Act, I believe they have to prove that the modification caused the failure.

[Charles]

Exactly. That's what I understand. The SA just kept saying "Well, if it's been tampered with, it's voided", and I kept saying "Dood..that's the point of the M-M Act, to say, per federal law, that you can't take that approach and that you have to prove that the GIAC SW caused the ECU to fry". He didn't get it.

I called the Service Mgr and left a msg.

[scoobycarolan]

Toast

[elwigglero]

Really don't think you're going to have any luck getting the dealership to cover a modded part. Whether or not it caused the failure, the ECU itself was modified.

Did the dealership give you a price estimate?

[Tusin]

Sorry OP. But this thread is kind of retarded.... You modified the ECU, the ECU failed. It is as simple as that. I am not saying that the modification was the cause of the failure. BUT you don't really have a leg to stand on. I mean good luck and all, hope it does work out. But you are kind of scamming the dealer.

[Kolyan2k]

Sorry OP. But this thread is kind of retarded.... You modified the ECU, the ECU failed. It is as simple as that. I am not saying that the modification was the cause of the failure. BUT you don't really have a leg to stand on. I mean good luck and all, hope it does work out. But you are kind of scamming the dealer.

why is he scamming the dealer if modification did NOT cause ECU to die ? and most likely it is a fact and dealer is just using GIAC as an excuse to get out of paying.

I would fight with them. or pay for new ECU and take dealer to small claims court. (have the ACT in hand and maybe have GIAC people write something on the paper)

[nramsey]

Sorry OP. But this thread is kind of retarded.... You modified the ECU, the ECU failed. It is as simple as that. I am not saying that the modification was the cause of the failure. BUT you don't really have a leg to stand on. I mean good luck and all, hope it does work out. But you are kind of scamming the dealer.

+1. I don't think you have a hope in hell of having it covered if it's been chipped. Maybe you could send it to GIAC and see if they can figure out why it doesn't work? Though it may not have caused the failure, how do you know? Even with Moss/Magnusson it is going to come down to you proving that the flash had nothing to do with the failure, and I don't see how you'll be able to convincingly do so.

[gyroscope]

then mentioned the GIAC Flashloader in the glovebox (which I forgot to take out),


always hide the evidence.

[Charles]

+1. I don't think you have a hope in hell of having it covered if it's been chipped. Maybe you could send it to GIAC and see if they can figure out why it doesn't work? Though it may not have caused the failure, how do you know? Even with Moss/Magnusson it is going to come down to you proving that the flash had nothing to do with the failure, and I don't see how you'll be able to convincingly do so.

No, THEY have to show the modification caused the failure.

What this boils down to is how far I want to go with this (ie $$$). I think legally, I'm in the right. The point of the M/M Act was to help people in situations just like this.

As for the SW causing the failure...it seems rather common sense to me. It's basically like loading a new version of Windows on your PC, it working fine for 6 months, then your hard drive breaking and blaming it on Windows. An OS won't cause your hard drive to fail, as in the drive to not physically work.

The Service Manager never got back with me today.

[nramsey]

No, THEY have to show the modification caused the failure.

What this boils down to is how far I want to go with this (ie $$$). I think legally, I'm in the right. The point of the M/M Act was to help people in situations just like this.

As for the SW causing the failure...it seems rather common sense to me. It's basically like loading a new version of Windows on your PC, it working fine for 6 months, then your hard drive breaking and blaming it on Windows. An OS won't cause your hard drive to fail, as in the drive to not physically work.

The Service Manager never got back with me today.

Ideally, yes. Realistically, no. Since you are the one that will have to sue them to get compensated, the onus kind of falls to you to make a case. And I think in your situation it will be hard to convince any non-software developer type that flashing your ECU could not have made your ECU stop working. I still don't see how you know for sure. Until you find the cause of the failure and proving what caused it, I don't see AOA giving you much love. The M/M Act was more to protect them voiding the entire vehicle warranty for mods on an unrelated part in my opinion. IE, if you install coilovers they can't void the warranty and refuse to fix a blown engine. I think this is the type of thing that used to happen before M/M Act.

And as for software not being able to cause your hard drive to physically break, think again, it's not an uncommon problem if you do a search.

To use another example, I've rooted my T-Mobile G1 and installed a custom ROM, and in no way to I expect T-Mobile to cover the thing under warranty if it stops working. I basically voided the warranty as soon as I rooted it.

[Kolyan2k]

Ideally, yes. Realistically, no. Since you are the one that will have to sue them to get compensated, the onus kind of falls to you to make a case. And I think in your situation it will be hard to convince any non-software developer type that flashing your ECU could not have made your ECU stop working. I still don't see how you know for sure. Until you find the cause of the failure and proving what caused it, I don't see AOA giving you much love. The M/M Act was more to protect them voiding the entire vehicle warranty for mods on an unrelated part in my opinion. IE, if you install coilovers they can't void the warranty and refuse to fix a blown engine. I think this is the type of thing that used to happen before M/M Act.

And as for software not being able to cause your hard drive to physically break, think again, it's not an uncommon problem if you do a search.

To use another example, I've rooted my T-Mobile G1 and installed a custom ROM, and in no way to I expect T-Mobile to cover the thing under warranty if it stops working. I basically voided the warranty as soon as I rooted it.

oh....another rooted G1/MyTouch user :)

but i think its a not the same......first of all GIAC, APR, and REVO are professionals, and the car was driving fine with GAIC, just like in most people cases. If while flashing, GIAC software killed ECU, then yes, this would be GIACs fault and most likely GIAC would replace your ECU in this case.

just like i dont expect my rooted phone to die all of a sudden. thats impossible since its been working just fine for a while now

[nramsey]

Well I certainly hope I'm wrong, and wish you the best of luck. I hope to never be faced with the same situation, but it's certainly possible. Maybe we can use your case as a precedent if you're successful to help others if they run into the same!

[Kolyan2k]

hey, i already learned something here. TAKE OUT GIAC flashloader out of my glovebox ! :)

[Charles]

And as for software not being able to cause your hard drive to physically break, think again, it's not an uncommon problem if you do a search.

To use another example, I've rooted my T-Mobile G1 and installed a custom ROM, and in no way to I expect T-Mobile to cover the thing under warranty if it stops working. I basically voided the warranty as soon as I rooted it.

Yes, but your issues would be SW related. If the custom ROM killed your G1, it would be due to the SW's code not being able to be executed properly by the phone's hardware. In other words, you hardware is working fine, the error is in the code. The issue is SW related, not hardware related. On the other hand, if you dropped your phone and it broke, it's not the ROM SW that broke, it's the hardware. There's a difference. In my case, the SW was working fine, it's the hardware that's broken. THE ECU hardware, itself, is not working...according to the dealer. Again, I'm failing to see how the GIAC SW could cause that to happen.

If I do have to secure my own ECU, do I have to get an '06 ECU or will an '07,'08 work? Does it need to be from a car with a manual tranny, like mine? Any other limitations to ECU swapping...aside from the dealer having to recode the immobilizer.

[Charles]

Just got off the phone with the Service Manager...he said he's going to go ahead and replace it!

Score!

He said since I was honest and I've been going to them since 2006, he'll do an exception for me.

[naiku]

Just got off the phone with the Service Manager...he said he's going to go ahead and replace it!

Score!

He said since I was honest and I've been going to them since 2006, he'll do an exception for me.

Excellent! Show's that there are decent service managers out there, and that honesty and loyalty do go a long way.

[philaboy]

[up][up][up] We will take each dealer until every B7 is fixed[:D]Forward men, No B7 will be left behind without warranty........



Excellent! Show's that there are decent service managers out there, and that honesty and loyalty do go a long way.

[Kolyan2k]

Just got off the phone with the Service Manager...he said he's going to go ahead and replace it!

Score!

He said since I was honest and I've been going to them since 2006, he'll do an exception for me.

good to hear

but i still dont know if something like this comes up if its best to tell them that you are chipped or not.

[bmc333]

good to hear

but i still dont know if something like this comes up if its best to tell them that you are chipped or not.

If you've been seeing the same dealer for 3 years - that counts for something in their eyes...honesty did help in this instance but so did 3 years of spending money at their dealership.

[4RingRook]

Thats great news. Now buy a lottery ticket b/c today is your lucky day. [>_<]

[Charles]

If you've been seeing the same dealer for 3 years - that counts for something in their eyes...honesty did help in this instance but so did 3 years of spending money at their dealership.

All warranty/covered routine work. I think I've paid for one oil change from them. ;)

And they're the only dealer in Jacksonville, so yeah. Where the hell else am I gonna go?

[greddy15]

ok so u fessed up, now start bitching and complaining at them for being nosey enough to find the giac controller in the glovebox. i gues u could say they "invaded your privacy without permission". that deffinately wasnt right for them to look in your glove compartment