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DGAFxxx
07-10-2009, 01:02 PM
First question: Does anyone know where the cheapest place to find a set of the Bilstein sports? And are the sports the ones I need to run with the H&R Race Springs?

Also I've been looking on their website and it looks like they have 2 different models for the 2000 1.8TQ Apparently there is a slip in the year pre-06/00, or 07/00 - 01. How can I tell which my car fits in? I looked inside the drivers door for a manufactured date, as well as the sticker inside the spare well in the truck.

Jason

onemoremile
07-10-2009, 01:08 PM
The shocks are the same for All B5 models.

Try calling purems or mjm and see if they can hook you up. They're good people.

Unless you are going strictly for the look, the sport springs will give you better ride and better handling.

DGAFxxx
07-10-2009, 01:09 PM
The shocks are the same for All B5 models.

Try calling purems or mjm and see if they can hook you up. They're good people.

Thanks! will do.

DGAFxxx
07-10-2009, 01:22 PM
thanks onemoremile. Just bought a set from MJM. They were about $40 cheaper than pure ms and had free shipping.

Kronic Budz
07-10-2009, 01:30 PM
The shocks are the same for All B5 models.

Try calling purems or mjm and see if they can hook you up. They're good people.

Unless you are going strictly for the look, the sport springs will give you better ride and better handling.

how do you figure sports give u better handling then a RACE spring?

onemoremile
07-10-2009, 01:38 PM
how do you figure sports give u better handling then a RACE spring?

Because I've tracked my car at several different heights and data logged it.

Our cars use a sophisticated four link virtual axis front suspension geometry. If you lower it too far it puts it well out of it's nominal range which creates bump steer and increases the roll couple. Roll couple is basically the amount of leverage the cornering load has on the chassis through the suspension. Common thought is to lower it to get a lower center of gravity which decreases roll. Problem is that it doesn't work like that in the real world. You also screw up the camber and toe curves because the car thinks it is bottoming out and goes into stability mode.

I dumped my car and tracked it. Then raised it a half inch and did it again. Did this several times until it got slower. It was the same speed at less than an inch below stock sport height as it did when it was tucking the tire tread. It was also much more comfortable when higher. So when you run about an inch below stock sport height the car handles better and is more comfortable.

FWIW, I did this on corner balanced coilovers, track pads, and on both track tires and Pilot Sport street tires. The results are consistent.

Tiluleshpingen
07-10-2009, 01:38 PM
i got mine from neuspeed.com i think they were (1 year ago) 120 a piece for the front ones

Tiluleshpingen
07-10-2009, 01:43 PM
how do you figure sports give u better handling then a RACE spring?

I think mostly Jim was taking into consideration that RACE springs dont give that extra "better" handling then SPORT springs on a road car that is going to be daily driven... not a track car. tracks are smooth and dont have many bumps
while in the US roads/streets/highways are like a pimpled face break out.

onemoremile
07-10-2009, 01:44 PM
Dick Shine of Shine Racing has done all of the work too. Quite a bit more than I have. He prototyped a suspension setup that was streetable with incredible handling. It uses custom would 400 pound linear springs and custom valved Bilstein dampers. That development set is on my car right now and has been for about a year.

It will easily hang with the balanced KW V1 coilovers I had before. It is stiffly sprung but handles beautifully. FWIW, I've been running it without any sway bars at all since around October. I sold the H-Sport set because they were no longer necessary and will install my stock bars again soon.

It might look stock but ask anyone that has ever pushed down on it how stiff it is. I can sit on the fender and it drops less than a half inch. Acceptable on the street, incredible on the track.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/onemoremile/IMG_5546.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/onemoremile/IMG_5545.jpg

onemoremile
07-10-2009, 01:49 PM
I think mostly Jim was taking into consideration that RACE springs dont give that extra "better" handling then SPORT springs on a road car that is going to be daily driven... not a track car. tracks are smooth and dont have many bumps
while in the US Roads its like a pimpled face break out.

Race springs are not faster around a track. I'll bet my car on it.

You guys are talking about progressive springs. They settle under load before getting the stability you need around a corner. My springs are what they are all the time. Say I've got 4" of travel and you've got 3" on sport and 2" on race. I might settle 1" on a 1g corner. The progressive springs might settle 2". Where does that put the race springs? It puts them out of options. That progressive settling is what makes the sway bars more important on those cars. That and the lighter spring rates.

When you go lower you mess up the geometry and increase roll couple. We covered that. You also limit suspension travel. To do so on softer progressive springs means that you can run out of travel in a real hurry. Race tracks aren't the smoothest things in the world. Catch a bump mid corner that causes you to bounce off the bump stops and it is a bad situation. By contrast, my suspension still has enough travel to deal with bumps even under full load cornering or braking. Suspension has to be able to do it's job all the time to be any good.

Kronic Budz
07-10-2009, 02:00 PM
Because I've tracked my car at several different heights and data logged it.

Our cars use a sophisticated four link virtual axis front suspension geometry. If you lower it too far it puts it well out of it's nominal range which creates bump steer and increases the roll couple. Roll couple is basically the amount of leverage the cornering load has on the chassis through the suspension. Common thought is to lower it to get a lower center of gravity which decreases roll. Problem is that it doesn't work like that in the real world. You also screw up the camber and toe curves because the car thinks it is bottoming out and goes into stability mode.

I dumped my car and tracked it. Then raised it a half inch and did it again. Did this several times until it got slower. It was the same speed at less than an inch below stock sport height as it did when it was tucking the tire tread. It was also much more comfortable when higher. So when you run about an inch below stock sport height the car handles better and is more comfortable.

FWIW, I did this on corner balanced coilovers, track pads, and on both track tires and Pilot Sport street tires. The results are consistent.


thanks. You said around an inch lower then stock sport... My sport springs put me nowhere near that much lower then a stock sport stance. And you can push down on the corners of my car fairly easy IMO. I would say the general race spring puts you around 1 inch lower then stock sport, and a little stiffer. Not coil over tucked status where the camber is off and all. I just dont get how an h&r race spring thats stiffer wouldnt handle better then a softer less aggressive h&r race spring...

samleong
07-10-2009, 02:24 PM
I got mine from ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BILSTEIN-SPORT-SHOCKS-STRUTS-AUDI-A4-QUATTRO-00-01_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a12Q7c66Q3a2Q7c 39Q3a1Q7c72Q3a1205Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp 3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem56333cdb56QQitemZ3702268 13782QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessori es

PLUS, you can use the 8% discount(Microsoft Live search) for any ebay purchase. So the final price is 440. I believe it is the cheapest

JEmm
07-10-2009, 02:29 PM
I got my bilstein sports from tyrolsport.com based out of long island. If you decide to go with hr sports, they sell a package of bilstein sports and hr sports.

onemoremile
07-10-2009, 02:50 PM
There are plenty of pics of race springs and they are at least as low as I ran the car. They aren't necessarily slower than sport springs but they won't be any faster and won't ride as well. The fashionable look comes at a price.

Kyle H
07-10-2009, 03:19 PM
Dick Shine of Shine Racing has done all of the work too. Quite a bit more than I have. He prototyped a suspension setup that was streetable with incredible handling. It uses custom would 400 pound linear springs and custom valved Bilstein dampers. That development set is on my car right now and has been for about a year.

It will easily hang with the balanced KW V1 coilovers I had before. It is stiffly sprung but handles beautifully. FWIW, I've been running it without any sway bars at all since around October. I sold the H-Sport set because they were no longer necessary and will install my stock bars again soon.

It might look stock but ask anyone that has ever pushed down on it how stiff it is. I can sit on the fender and it drops less than a half inch. Acceptable on the street, incredible on the track.
Doesn't he include a rear sway bar with most of his suspension setups? You're the first person I've heard of running his suspension on a B5. [up][up]

onemoremile
07-10-2009, 03:21 PM
Not on the B5. He suggests running the H-Sport rear with a stock sport front. The alternative rear is the other one with reinforcement, Neuspeed I believe. I'll be running stock sport bars (maybe not the front, we'll see) with the existing springs, shocks, and modded center diff. Should be quite nice everywhere.

Kronic Budz
07-10-2009, 04:41 PM
sorry to be off topic... Do sport suspension a4's come with larger sway bars then non-sports?

Tiluleshpingen
07-10-2009, 05:33 PM
JIM no sway bars?? wow.. that's sounds dangerous.. is it??

B5Burn
07-10-2009, 05:36 PM
Because I've tracked my car at several different heights and data logged it.
....... edited.....

But did you learn anything useful? [>_<]

SpoolinPelican
07-10-2009, 05:53 PM
sorry to be off topic... Do sport suspension a4's come with larger sway bars then non-sports?

Yes, I cant remember the size on the front, but non sport rear is 13mm and sport is 16mm.

UCFQuattroguy
07-11-2009, 02:35 PM
I believe both the sport and non-sport FSB is 28mm. The difference is the tube thickness, thus the difference in stiffness.

onemoremile
07-13-2009, 07:44 AM
JIM no sway bars?? wow.. that's sounds dangerous.. is it??

Not even remotely dangerous. I run the 400 pound linear springs so the body is still well controlled and since it has truly independent suspension without the bars it is much more comfy on our broken roads. I'll be putting the stock bars back on soon.