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shorterthanrich
07-08-2009, 01:00 PM
Now with 100% more GTs!

Update 1/12/12:
Replacing the GT2560 setup with GTX2863s w/ TiAL .64 a/r V-banded turbine housings
Same twice-built 2.7 motor
Same Built 2.8 heads
VAST Log Manifolds
VAST 3" Downpipes
VAST Tuned
Southbend Stage 5 Extreme clutch

Skip to the start of the GT2863 Build (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/296286-Rich-s-Free-Noggy-Build-Thread?p=7181292&viewfull=1#post7181292)

GT2560 Build
Built engine with Built 2.8 heads
VAST GT2560 Turbos
VAST Log Manifolds
VAST Mandrel bent 3" Downpipes
VAST Tuned
Southbend Custom Clutch with an Extreme Sachs Pressure Plate and 6 Puck Ceramic Disc


To Skip to the start of the actual interesting build, click here. (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?296286-Rich-s-Free-Noggy-Build-Thread&p=4480520&viewfull=1#post4480520)

To read the story of how I got my free noggy, then posted a bunch of newb stuff, continue on below.


Here's where it begins. The story:

In February of 2009, a good friend of mine let me drive his all stock 2000 Nogaro Blue S4 6MT. He's been driving it as his daily driver for some time, now. Him and some of his friends started a small Alternative Energy Consulting/Design Company right out of college, so his Father has been letting him use that car for their business, since all of their income is dedicated to the company. My friend, Jason, drives very, very conservatively. And by that, I mean it's boring to be in a car with him. So slow, such even gradual acceleration. Great for the car, but boring.

So, when he let me drive it, I asked him "Jason, can I drive this car the way it was meant to be driven?" He replied "Yeah, go for it... show me what it can really do..."
So I did. I was so sold on the car so fast it's not even funny. I had been in the market for a new car for months. I've created spreadsheets helping me determine which car is best for me and have been analyzing and reanalyzing them for the last 6 months or so. RX-8? WRX? STi? Boxster S? 911 C4S? Corvette? (all used, of course). Everything had it's ups and downs on price, performance, bad weather driving, trunk space, mpg, etc. After driving the S, I very solidly decided on having a turbo'd car. Absolutely sold on the principle.

At the beginning of May, Jason called me, quite dismayed. "The car is in the shop...my uncle was driving it for a few weeks and apparently the clutch and the flywheel are dead...he said it's going to be $5,000 to get it back on the road."
[o_o]
Me: "$5,000?!?! No way, that's crap!"
Jason: "Yeah, well, my Dad doesn't really have time to deal with it. He said he's just going to junk it and get a new one. I really don't want him to get rid of it! I love that car!"
Me: "JUNK AN S4?! Dude, NO. It would NOT cost that much to fix it. That's ridiculous. Plus it's worth way more than $5K anyway."
Jason: "Well, let me see if I can talk him out of it...."

About 10 minutes later, he called me back...

"Dude, do you want it?"
Me: "What? Want it like...buy it?"
Jason: "No. As in just take it. Can you fix it? He doesn't want to deal with it...you can just have it if you want. I just don't want it junked or something."
Me: "[o_o]"
[o_o]
[o_o]
"YES! Holy crap! YES."

So, since I was traveling for work, at the end of my short tour, I flew back from SLC, Utah, to Boston, drove from Boston to Long Island to grab my father's van. We drove over to New Jersey about an hour away and picked it up from his mechanic on a flatbed. The car was dirty as hell, but clearly in good shape - no major cosmetic flaws. Ran fine...just wouldn't go into gear. We drove it back to Long Island and brought it to the family mechanic to get the RS4 Clutch, AWE Lightweight Flywheel, and Bailey Diverter Valves installed. I'd have loved to do it myself, but had no access to a lift and also had to fly out to California within a few days. I didn't really have time.

So, about $3,000 in parts and labor later, the car was back on the road. I drove it for 900 miles within two days. From Long Island, to Albany to Boston to Albany to Boston.


That is the story of how I got my Free Noggy. [drive]
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/June-09%20EB/IMG_8268Large.jpg

From here on is the build.
__________________________________________________ ______

The Build! (edit, this was my original plan, which has since changed dramatically)


First, my goals. I would like to keep my investments below the value of the car. Realistically, that's almost definitely not going to happen. The plan was to have a ton of fun with this car, learn a lot along the way, do nearly all of the work myself, and save money to purchase a 2003 911 Carerra 4S within 2 years. Now that I've driven the car more and experienced what a simple stage 1 tune can do, I hope to keep the car for more than just 2 years, and am likely going to invest more than the car's value into it, but will also be able to save up for the 911 because of how long I hope to keep it. 3 years? 4 years? Hopefully.

Outline:
1. Keep it completely daily drivable.
2. Keep it classy. Nothing that attracts TOO much attention.
3. Always seek deals and good "value." I'm not looking to be the fastest s4 in Boston.
4. Have fun with it. Don't take things too seriously. It's a hobby.
5. Always be faster than my friends Celica GT-S that is being modded. Try to be faster than my other friends 2004 modded Evo. Heh.

About the car:

Got it at 135,000 miles. Everything was stock. Minor, slow oil leak, like all of these cars have. ABS Module dead, Airbag Module dead, Pixels dead. Exterior was in beautiful shape, minus a pretty scratched up rear bumped, which Ive since touched up to look good unless youre looking for it. Interior is in great shape minus a very small rip on the back seat because the previous owner used to put his bike in the car. Stock K03s show no sign of upcoming death, but who knows.

So far:

5/14/2009 135,000 RS4 Clutch
5/14/2009 135,000 AWE LWFW
5/14/2009 135,000 2 x Bailey Diverter Valves
5/14/2009 135,000 Oil Change: Mobil1 5W40 Synthetic
5/15/2009 135,000 Wax
6/3/2009 136,000
6/4/2009 136,000 Short Shifter Installation
6/10/2009 136,500 Full Detail
6/11/2009 136,500 2 x LED License Plate Lights
6/12/2009 136,500 35% Tint all around
6/12/2009 136,500 2 x LED Convenience Lights
7/2/2009 137,000 Silicon Throttle Body Boot
7/2/2009 137,000 Silicon F-Hose
7/2/2009 137,000 A-Box ECU with APR 2 Tune
7/3/2009 137,000 iPod Adaptor
7/3/2009 137,000 ABS Module Repair
7/3/2009 137,000 Air Bag Module
7/3/2009 137,000 All interior LEDs

Total cost so far: $4,682.00

Purchased, but not yet installed:

Podi Electronic Stepper Motor Boost Gauge Package
Cadence A7+HC Amp
KnuKonceptz Kollossus 0/1 Amp Kit
2x Elemental Designs 13Ov.2 Subs
Vibrant Catback from A&P

Total comes to: $5,330.00

To be Purchased:
Pixel Fix
JHM Short Shifter
Sport Pedals
Bilstein Sport Shocks
MSW type 11 17x7.5" Wheels
Piggies
LED Tail Lights - EDIT: Unless Someone points me to nice looking tasteful ones, no LED tails will touch my car. I have not found anything that looks good yet.
Transmission Fluid Flush

For a planned grand total of: $7,620.00

Bets should be placed on how much higher than that I end up going... (update 1/12/12 over $25K and counting...)
____________________________________________

And so it begins. Im traveling for work at the moment, but Ill be back next week to install the Podi gauge and possibly try to get the subs in. That depends on whether or not I find an easy way to tap into the bose line level signal that runs to the ampor if I just go with a LOC. I also MIGHT break down and buy the JHM shifter.since that eBay one is total shyte.

Any comments, suggestions, help, ANYTHING is welcome and encouraged! I know this is not some crazy single turbo build or Imola Beast or something, but its going to be a fun project, full of probably every fix anyone has to do and a long list of mods over the years. Im really looking forward to it.

If anyone is in the Boston area, Id love to meet up for a cruise, to shoot the sh!t, use your vag-com, or steal your garage space for the day I need to do a K04 swap.

-Rich

kwik_shift
07-08-2009, 01:06 PM
Your one lucky bastard!! You got the best color and a 6 speed.

washyourrhands
07-08-2009, 01:34 PM
dude fuck you

complacentsee
07-08-2009, 01:53 PM
30k total build. (20k of that in hospital bills when your friend finds out how little you fixed it for and runs you down in his new car)

mrpeterparker
07-08-2009, 01:54 PM
what's with all the LED stuff.. and LED tailights? SKIP

amp? sub? a decent aftermarket deck and the stock speakers are more than enough for decent bass.

that's almost $1000+ you should be saving for k04s/gts/insert your fav turbo here

jprice
07-08-2009, 02:01 PM
what's with all the LED stuff.. and LED tailights? SKIP

amp? sub? a decent aftermarket deck and the stock speakers are more than enough for decent bass.

that's almost $1000+ you should be saving for k04s/gts/insert your fav turbo here

*ding*

If you want to spend money on a system, focus on home theater.

Congrats on the car.... awesome deal, but be prepared to spend more than you expected maintaining it. (timing belt/water pump/accessory belts?, valve cover gaskets?, after run coolant pump?, etc?)

If nothing else, please don't make it stretch and poke on bags.. kthx :-p

RedRocketS4
07-08-2009, 02:04 PM
jerk

shorterthanrich
07-08-2009, 02:11 PM
30k total build. (20k of that in hospital bills when your friend finds out how little you fixed it for and runs you down in his new car)

HAHA! Yeah he lives just down the street from me. He gets updates every time I do anything to it ;)

tike0rz
07-08-2009, 02:11 PM
Excellent story! You had me at every word.

Congratulations on your S4! With a little love, she can truly be your love. Keep up the awesome work!

Karl
07-08-2009, 02:14 PM
I've found the new person I envy the most. Seven deadly sins? Fuck 'em....

Congrats though :)

Don Supreme
07-08-2009, 02:14 PM
Its kind of depressing when you lay it all out on paper.

Why do you do that to yourself?

shorterthanrich
07-08-2009, 02:18 PM
what's with all the LED stuff.. and LED tailights? SKIP

amp? sub? a decent aftermarket deck and the stock speakers are more than enough for decent bass.

that's almost $1000+ you should be saving for k04s/gts/insert your fav turbo here

I like LEDs. Call me obsessed, but I really...really love LEDs. I have a known hatred of incandescent light. Stupid inefficient old technology. Not that it actually really matters in a car...
I guess I just like the very "true" color that LEDs give.

I'm still on the fence on the LED tails. Only if I can find ones that are not rice looking. LEDs > incandescent, and can really give an even higher class look to tail lights. I haven't found any that I'm happy with though, so I'll either make my own out of some stock tails or just keep them stock (since they're great looking tails as far as stock goes).

I already have the two 13Ov.2s from my previous car. I custom build boxes, so that's basically free ($30), the wires were cheap, and the amp was $315. I like high fi audio, and have a soft spot for bass. I like to feel it. I'm making it completely removable so that when I want to auto x or anything of that nature I can pop it all right out in 5 minutes.

I know it's not everyone's taste, but it is mine :)

shorterthanrich
07-08-2009, 02:20 PM
*ding*

If you want to spend money on a system, focus on home theater.

Congrats on the car.... awesome deal, but be prepared to spend more than you expected maintaining it. (timing belt/water pump/accessory belts?, valve cover gaskets?, after run coolant pump?, etc?)

If nothing else, please don't make it stretch and poke on bags.. kthx :-p

I DID spend money on my home theater. [;)]

Yeah, I realized VERY quickly that I'd be spending more on it than I originally thought. But you know what, I'm ok with it. I'll bitch and moan and get pissed...but every time I drive it...it's worth it. Again, getting it for $0 makes it a bit easier.

Stretch and poke on bags? I'm don't quite understand what you mean there. Sorry, I think that I'm just missing something or not familiar with the phrase.

shorterthanrich
07-08-2009, 02:24 PM
Excellent story! You had me at every word.

Congratulations on your S4! With a little love, she can truly be your love. Keep up the awesome work!

Thanks :-D
It's what I did with my day at work today, heh.


I've found the new person I envy the most. Seven deadly sins? Fuck 'em....

Congrats though :)

Glad to be the subject of any S4 owner's envy.
Thanks!


Its kind of depressing when you lay it all out on paper.

Why do you do that to yourself?

Because I'm obsessive, perfectionist, and can't stop thinking about things until I've written them down or come up with some sort of plan that I can look at every time I can't stop thinking about it. I need to be able to look at a sheet of paper, or spreadsheet, and say ok - you have it all right there...stop thinking about it for 5 minutes.

Also, I can very easily get carried away with it and I need a means of controlling myself.

But it hurts so good.

jprice
07-08-2009, 02:33 PM
I DID spend money on my home theater. [;)]

Yeah, I realized VERY quickly that I'd be spending more on it than I originally thought. But you know what, I'm ok with it. I'll bitch and moan and get pissed...but every time I drive it...it's worth it. Again, getting it for $0 makes it a bit easier.

Stretch and poke on bags? I'm don't quite understand what you mean there. Sorry, I think that I'm just missing something or not familiar with the phrase.

1) Nice on the home theater.. Sounds like you're making the car system removeable, so props there. :)

2) If you don't know what stretch and poke (and bags) is, that is a GOOD thing. :) (stretch = wide wheels with narrow tires, poke = really too wide wheels, or incorrectly way too low wheel offset, or unnecessarily thick wheel spacers to push wheel face outside the wheel well, bags = suspension with air bags so you can "slam" the car down real low when you show it at car shows, cause cars which look useless are way cool... dude. [headbang]) :-D

Sounds like you know what you're getting into with the maintenance, and I wouldn't mind too much with a free S4 either ;) Just make sure to get the maintenance all up to date before focusing on the mods.

Congrats again! (and yes, that story was a good read.. well presented :) )

shorterthanrich
07-08-2009, 02:49 PM
1) Nice on the home theater.. Sounds like you're making the car system removeable, so props there. :)

2) If you don't know what stretch and poke (and bags) is, that is a GOOD thing. :) (stretch = wide wheels with narrow tires, poke = really too wide wheels, or incorrectly way too low wheel offset, or unnecessarily thick wheel spacers to push wheel face outside the wheel well, bags = suspension with air bags so you can "slam" the car down real low when you show it at car shows, cause cars which look useless are way cool... dude. [headbang]) :-D

Sounds like you know what you're getting into with the maintenance, and I wouldn't mind too much with a free S4 either ;) Just make sure to get the maintenance all up to date before focusing on the mods.

Congrats again! (and yes, that story was a good read.. well presented :) )

[:d] The home theatre is very nice but not entirely excessive. All Elemental Designs speakers (A6-6T6 towers + center, A3-5TCs in the rear, and an A7S-450 18" 1,300 Watt Ov.2 series subwoofa. hehe.) Denon receiver, imaged perfectly. Wasn't too expensive, but it's better than anything I've ever heard. Obviously there's better stuff out there....but as far as bang for the buck, only The Speaker Company makes something competitive with this equipment in the price range. I'm happy with my eDs.

2. I mean, I know what bags are, and I sort of guess you might be talking about that. I've never heard of stretch n poke, though. I'm running on the stock rims at the moment, but as you saw I'm probably going with 17" x 7.5, so stock size. The tires on the car were around $800+, so it's not worth it to me to get rims that these tires don't fit on. I'm ok with stretching to 8", but it's not really worth it. 35mm offset plus maybe 10mm spacers should be enough to get the wheels even with the fenders at most. Don't want to go outside it or overdo it. I don't want to lower the car because i'm in Boston, and it practically scrapes out of most driveways to begin with. Bilstein sports on stock springs should make me happy enough. Just want to tighten it up, don't need to drop it.

I'm trying SOOOOO hard to get the maintenance done before mods. It's SO difficult. I travel for work CONSTANTLY, so I have all of this time away from the car to plan...and buy things. If I was home I'd already have the ABS, Airbags, and pixel situation fixed. I'd also have replaced the suspension (the front suspension bumps and rattles - struts are blown I think.) That's all happening soon though.

As of now the car gets driven 1-2 weekends a month.

I'm glad you enjoyed the story [:D]

haus4
07-08-2009, 02:52 PM
Glad to hear you saved an S. It looks like you have a good head on your shoulders when it comes to modding, besides the LED tails. Please, Please dont put LED tails on. 99% of b5 s4 dont have aftermarket tails for a reason.

As far as the next stuff on your list, I wouldnt go for the sport shocks or the sport pedals. Pedals are a PITA to install and the sport shocks wont change the feel of the suspension that much. I would wait for a GB on coilovers or buy a good used pair. You will definitely be happy with COs.

As far as maintenance, I would do the tranny fluid. Its straight forward following the DIYs. The down side is you need the tools for it.

Other than that, keep up the good work.[up]

shorterthanrich
07-08-2009, 03:06 PM
Glad to hear you saved an S. It looks like you have a good head on your shoulders when it comes to modding, besides the LED tails. Please, Please dont put LED tails on. 99% of b5 s4 dont have aftermarket tails for a reason.

As far as the next stuff on your list, I wouldnt go for the sport shocks or the sport pedals. Pedals are a PITA to install and the sport shocks wont change the feel of the suspension that much. I would wait for a GB on coilovers or buy a good used pair. You will definitely be happy with COs.

As far as maintenance, I would do the tranny fluid. Its straight forward following the DIYs. The down side is you need the tools for it.

Other than that, keep up the good work.[up]

Like I said, I was hoping to find some nice looking aftermarket tails, but have not had any luck. After the response here, its almost definitely going to be stricken from the list. Instead I might do some nice white LEDs across the front bumper vents or something. Probably not, and if so way off in the future when I've run out of *relatively* inexpensive things to do.

I've heard conflicting reports on the sport shocks. Many people have said that it would definitely stiffen up the ride significantly. And sometimes I hear it wont make any difference. I want ZERO drop, and (from my understanding) it's difficult to find COs that don't drop the car at all. Also, bilstein sports = $500, COs > $1000. Point me in the direction of something nice and stiff with no drop at the right price, and I'm all ears. [:)]


I'm going to go look up the tranny fluid DIY. Know where one is? I have a fair amount of tools and am WTB most anything - I'm only 22 and will be playing with cars so long as my arms are functioning.

IamEzraM
07-08-2009, 04:16 PM
car looks nice, be careful where you park it around Boston

shorterthanrich
07-08-2009, 06:29 PM
Alright, so here are some pictures of some things goin in:
So this is what happens when I travel for 3 weeks.
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/IMG_8530Large.jpg
That's the Cadence A7HC (bought from jibberjive – thanks), eBay ipod Adaptor, used Airbag Module, repaired ABS module from Cheap-ABS.com, Samco TBB, Samco F-Hose from AWE, APR 2 “A box” ecu (bought from Anthony AWD – Thanks!), and my keys and laptop for size comparison on how insanely tiny the A7HC amp is.

Cadence A7HC bought from jibberjive (THANKS): so so small for 1500+ Watts RMS. This is going in maybe next week? If I get the wires and a LOC in time. I'm not sure if I can tap into the bose line level wires that go to the stock amp. If anyone knows anything about this - let me know.
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/IMG_8501Large.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/IMG_8522Large.jpg

Clear backing...mmm guts.
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/IMG_8527Large.jpg

These are the subs in the box that I built for my maxima. 1.5cf/chamber, tuned to 32 hz. Anyone need a box for a car bigger than the S? It squeezes into the S but it takes up 80% of the trunk. Time to say goodbye to it.
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/IMG_8504Large.jpg

Matt @ Cheap-ABS.com done good on my ABS module. Er...well, it seems he did. I still have to clear the codes. Still, he did it fast and cheap!
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/IMG_8538Large.jpg http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/IMG_8539Large.jpg


Ok, onto replacing the hoses! Thanks AW for the tech article on this...

Covers off...mmm bailey's. (Note: Are my DVs on sideways? My mechanic put them on for me while he was in there doing the clutch and flywheel. I thought I remembered seeing a picture of them facing differently somewhere...but it might have been a dream/nightmare)
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/IMG_8547Large.jpg

Gotta loosen up those IC hose mounts. Loosen, but don't remove. If you don't do this then you might break the mounts...so get on it. There's one on each side, naturally. ahhh, two turbos.
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/IMG_8550Large.jpg

Removing the sensor with an 8mm socket. Already took out the 5mm allen screws
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/IMG_8553Large.jpg

TBB off after removing the 7mm intercooler pipe clamps. These were pretty easy to take off and are re-usable. but the TBB and F hose comes with nice new ones...so might as well use 'em.
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/IMG_8554Large.jpg

Throttle Body glamour shot:
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/IMG_8555Large.jpg

TBB all in. I meant to buy it in blue...but I guess I misclicked. Oh well.
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/IMG_8558Large.jpg

Bailey DV glamor shot
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/IMG_8559Large.jpg

Ecu replacement:
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/IMG_8562Large.jpg

And that's where I stopped taking pictures. The TBB wasn't too hard to put in, but the F-hose was a bitch! the silicon hoses did NOT want to get on there. I actually stabbed myself in the finger with a flat-head screwdriver while trying to jam something into something else. That's the first time that I broke (as in popped) the skin with a flathead. bastards.

Getting the the ABS module would be very easy with all of the right tools. Its behind the stereo in the dash. It was kind of a two-fur since I was doing the ipod adaptor, as well. A mini-ratchet set would definitely help...which I don't have. Still, it wasn't so bad. The ipod adaptor install was very, very easy.

ABS module is also in and really was not very difficult at all. Took maybe 2 hours taking my time to remove it, but only about 30 minutes to put it back in. Getting the car up on jack stands up front is a must. I also found one of the most rusted screws in the history of cars up front. I went to take out one of the T25 torx, and the inside of it literally disintegrated.



eBay Ipod Adaptor: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390044108284&viewitem=
Cheap-abs: http://www.cheap-abs.com/index.html
Samco Hoses: http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/shared/part_detail.cfm?PMaI=1&PMoI=4&PEI=6&PP=s4_27t_drivetrain.cfm&PPT=Drivetrain&IL=S4Samco


Links to the DIYs:
Ipod adaptor: http://integrationsolutions.net/EBAY/frooition/blitzsafe/vw/audi-mlink-v1b/directions/a4.html
Airbag Module replacement: http://www.audiworld.com/tech/elec152.shtml
Abs removal/install: http://www.audiworld.com/tech/elec116.shtml
Ecu replacement: http://www.awe-tuning.com/media/pdf/9701_A4_B5_A6_S4_allroad_removal_AWETUNING.pdf


Next week: Podi Boost gauge install, possibly amp + sub install, possibly JHM short shifter install, hopefully getting the ABS+airbag lights to turn off.

shorterthanrich
07-08-2009, 06:30 PM
car looks nice, be careful where you park it around Boston

Thanks! Luckily my car is in a locked garage for now, and I'm moving to Medford, where it will sit in my driveway under a car cover most of the time. I also never drive it in the city - mostly in the surrounding areas.

shorterthanrich
07-10-2009, 03:49 AM
Bah, couldn't help myself. Catback ordered through A&P. Podi Boost Gauge ordered...

joe dub
07-10-2009, 12:29 PM
i have a similar story, but mine wasnt FREE! lucky mofo

S4_NE
07-10-2009, 01:43 PM
wow a free s4 enjoy it man , i have two of them and love them but one day i will get a P car

jrock
07-10-2009, 03:57 PM
SOB!!!!!!!

Sleeeper X
07-10-2009, 04:33 PM
I hope you burn in hell.

NeedingAnAudi
07-10-2009, 07:12 PM
Damn, where can I find a Noggy 6MT for free?[=(]

awtst3.a6
07-10-2009, 07:42 PM
Damn, where can I find a Noggy 6MT for free?[=(]

lmao

shorterthanrich
07-11-2009, 12:32 AM
i have a similar story, but mine wasnt FREE! lucky mofo

So what is your similar, but not free noggy story?

shorterthanrich
07-11-2009, 12:33 AM
wow a free s4 enjoy it man , i have two of them and love them but one day i will get a P car

2 > 1 free I think....

P car?

I'm going to PM you about your EPL tune. I have APR software, but after some more upgrades I may go with them since I'm in the NE. Got some good recommendations for them on AW.

shorterthanrich
07-11-2009, 12:35 AM
SOB!!!!!!!


I hope you burn in hell.

Yeesh, started to feel a little hated on here. I saved it from the junkyards!


Damn, where can I find a Noggy 6MT for free?[=(]

I really lucked out like no ones business. It's really not even fair. Though it has been difficult working on it, etc, with all of the insane travel that I do. I'm home 1 weekend a month at best right now...

awtst3.a6
07-11-2009, 07:49 AM
Is this really a build thread [=(].... I have seen better stuff than this moved to Chatter box

shorterthanrich
07-11-2009, 02:04 PM
I mean, I figured that since I got a stock S4 and will be making it not stock...i.e. building it up, it could be called a build thread.

Not doing anything particularly new or awesome like jib or guru or whomever else, but I still see it as a build. It just so happens to have an interesting story along the way with the whole free thing, and that's attracting a lot of the conversation.

Is this a problem?

AMC
07-11-2009, 02:29 PM
what are u talking about. itll still be stock. u want to rice ur car up with LEDs and a sound system. if u got an s4 for free first thing on my mind would be performance. not audio and visual like the 16 yr olds with hondas think of. ur lucky for getting a free s4 but it would have been better off in a junk yard. bye

shorterthanrich
07-11-2009, 03:08 PM
what are u talking about. itll still be stock. u want to rice ur car up with LEDs and a sound system. if u got an s4 for free first thing on my mind would be performance. not audio and visual like the 16 yr olds with hondas think of. ur lucky for getting a free s4 but it would have been better off in a junk yard. bye

Man, I'm trying to keep positive. There's no reason to get on my case.

Read anything of what I wrote. OH NO NOT LED'S INSTEAD OF INCANDESCENT? RICE-MOBILE. Dude, it's no different. It gives off a truer color light. Most new luxury cars come with stock LEDs instead of incandescent because the technology is purely superior in all metrics other than cost. Welcome to the 21st century. Underglow? No. Idiotic tails? No. Spoiler? no.

So sue me for liking hi-fi audio. What's the problem with that. eD 13Ov.2's are SQ woofers, going into a .7cf/chamber sealed box. That takes up almost no trunk space and adds maybe 40 lbs. You probably carry that much extra weight in the car in douche-bags alone. I'm making the whole system fully removable. A hobby is a hobby. If I want a better sounding stereo in my car in conjunction with higher performance, that's my preference.

Also, if you have read you might have noticed, the first changes were RS4 clutch, LWFW, and Bailey DVs. In fact, the ONLY non-performance mods are a bit of an addition to the stereo, replacing factory bulbs with LEDs (which will never need replacing - ever, and look significantly better), and getting a fully legal tint. What's the big deal, and really man, there's no reasonable way to call that "ricer."

APR 2 tune, clutch, fly, DVs, piggies, catback, short shifter, silicon hoses, fixed all the broken crap (abs, airbags, pixels) picking my suspension, and am starting to plan for stage 3. You call that stock? You call that rice? Grow up and take your jealousy and aggression to the gym instead of the interweb.

Are you telling me it's "rice" to do any visual mods on the S? I look around here, and so many people have rims worth the price of a K04 upgrade, RS4 bumpers, etc. I think it looks great. I don't think there's anything wrong with adding to the way your car looks. It's an expression. I have <$1,000 planned in audio/visual modifications. $400-$500 for new wheels, $400 on the stereo, and a few hundred for the tint. EVERYTHING else - well over $5,000 - is in performance.

[:)]


Edit: I've seen you post a lot around here, and generally always got a good vibe. What's with the hate? I really don't see anything that I'm doing classifiable as rice. I understand a sound system can come off that way, but really if you look at what I'm doing...its not. Same with LEDs. Those three letters give off a bad vibe automatically these days from everyone that overdoes it, but I think the simple LED replacement looks very tasteful.

awtst3.a6
07-11-2009, 04:10 PM
I find my story more intresting. Also sorry to break your heart going stage 1/2+ is not a build. You have a stock audi you fixed up with an ECU flash..... If this was a build thread you would see 10-20 threads a week on flash "builds" and people putting exhaust on. Once again sorry to break your heart but I wouldn't call a bolt on turbo kit a "build" aka the stage 3 kit the PJ ko4s. Don't get me wrong I loved it when I ran it...but once again that isn't a build. Maybe if you had a step by step instal of the stage 3, you could post it. We are not bashing what you are doing, but stop being such a jerk off and bragging about your "free car". You paid money to fix it. It isn't free. I request this thread is moved.

Ragno
07-11-2009, 04:30 PM
if you don't know what stretch and poke (and bags) is, that is a GOOD thing. :)

http://randazza.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/douchebag.jpg

shorterthanrich
07-11-2009, 05:06 PM
I find my story more intresting. Also sorry to break your heart going stage 1/2+ is not a build. You have a stock audi you fixed up with an ECU flash..... If this was a build thread you would see 10-20 threads a week on flash "builds" and people putting exhaust on. Once again sorry to break your heart but I wouldn't call a bolt on turbo kit a "build" aka the stage 3 kit the PJ ko4s. Don't get me wrong I loved it when I ran it...but once again that isn't a build. Maybe if you had a step by step instal of the stage 3, you could post it. We are not bashing what you are doing, but stop being such a jerk off and bragging about your "free car". You paid money to fix it. It isn't free. I request this thread is moved.

That's fair. I can accept that a stage 1,2, or maybe even a 3 isn't really a build - hence my comment that it's not quite as serious as what I've seen in the subforum. My definition of "build thread" is basically a thread updating, maybe detailing, perhaps even step-by-stepping mods and upgrades. But if the forum's definition requires it to be much more serious, we can happily move this over to the chatterbox. I have no problem with that what-so-ever. I do see your point - I'm not doing anything different than what most people do, which I said. So yep, you would have an influx of "build threads" all saying the same thing by my definition.

Now...all of the animosity is a bit excessive. I haven't bashed anyone...I haven't tried to put anyone down, I haven't flamed anyone or been pissy at all. I tend to be pretty mild - especially online where tempers flare excessively so often. So at that, easy on the "stop being a jerk off" and so on. I posted a thread about a cool story on how I got a great car - essentially for free. If you want, it can be called my $3,000 noggy, rather than free. Is someone posting that they got a great deal on a tune/parts and ended up making their car awesome bragging? If yes, then that's what we're ALL on here to do.

But NAY. Most of us are on here for the love of the car and community. We want to talk about what we're doing because our friends and girlfriends are sick of hearing it, and its nice to see what others are up to, get and give advice, and have someone say "hey man, thats cool you got this car for free. have fun with it. Maybe we'll see you around Boston or something" etc.

I can't really decide if I'm actually being a douche here, or if some of you folks are just a bit touchy.

Sorry for offending anyone.

awtst3.a6
07-11-2009, 05:12 PM
[up] respect to that. I am not upset or mad :P sorry if I came off that way

Ragno
07-11-2009, 05:34 PM
I can't really decide if I'm actually being a douche here, or if some of you folks are just a bit touchy.

Sorry for offending anyone.

Hope you know; i wasn't talking too you :)

I think everyone's car should & has the right to have their own build no matter how big or how small; everyone dose unique things with each of their cars. You don't need to be pushing power for your car to be custom & interesting.

shorterthanrich
07-11-2009, 06:17 PM
[up] respect to that. I am not upset or mad :P sorry if I came off that way

I guess the "Stop being a jerk-off" made you seem irritated [;)]

It's all good. :: pounds it :: We're cool.


Hope you know; i wasn't talking too you :)

I think everyone's car should & has the right to have their own build no matter how big or how small; everyone dose unique things with each of their cars. You don't need to be pushing power for your car to be custom & interesting.

I thought for a SECOND that the douche picture was to me and though "oh WTF" and then realized it wasn't, lol.

Then I looked at your profile and @ your car and now I see why you posted that. HOLY POKE. Honestly, I think that looks badass. Fully, wholly, badass.

I also agree with your philosophical thoughts on car modification. Same page.

My thoughts: Anyone's project car is their project car. I want to say if someone throws in some stick on LEDs from auto-zone and thats all they do and they're happy with it, good for them. the same goes for dropping your civic, putting a giant spoiler on it, and putting on a cherry bomb muffler on it. Logically, how much different is that than putting nice rims on an S, or even doing serious performance mods. What's the point, really?

I would be quick to say that the guy rolling down the street with a stupidly-modded civic is an idiot. But is he? "It's a waste of money! It all looks stupid and gets him no performance gains!" Would be my thought. But wait...so what? It's all for fun. If that makes him happy...then that makes him happy. My Father thinks its totally insane to invest any extra money in the car for performance gains. He says it's a complete waste. But I like it - it's fun. I enjoy thinking about it, installing it, talking about it, and most of all...driving it.

It's all a matter of perspective. Everyone has different opinions with what is stupid and what isn't. For every person that thinks performance mods are super important and worth the money, there's someone else that thinks it's a complete waste to spend a cent on your car.

Since it is all entirely subjective, it is impossible to define what is and is not a waste, because, it is all a waste. It is also all not a waste. In subjective matters:

If Person A believes performance mods are a Waste, then, Performance Mods = Waste.
If Person B believes that Performance mods are not a waste, then, Performance Mods /= Waste.

So, most of us on here are in the school of thought that "ricing a car" (aka putting excessive lighting, or otherwise showy non-performance mods on a car) is a waste. From our perspective, that is correct. There's clearly varying degrees of what the threshold of rice, what I will call the TOR, is, but generally, we can agree that spending excessive amounts of money on visual mods that cheapen the look of the car is a waste. I believe that I am extremely far away from crossing the TOR, but again, it's all a matter of perspective.

/philosophy.

Ragno
07-11-2009, 06:52 PM
If you want to do LED tails; id take the lights off an aftermarket LED tail... and take the stock housing and change the lighting... I'v been pondering this same idea...

So it looks stock, just with a better light strength and pattern.

http://i38.tinypic.com/2hdp4hw.jpg

shorterthanrich
07-11-2009, 07:09 PM
If you want to do LED tails; id take the lights off an aftermarket LED tail... and take the stock housing and change the lighting... I'v been pondering this same idea...

So it looks stock, just with a better light strength and pattern.

http://i38.tinypic.com/2hdp4hw.jpg

That's not a bad idea. I was just looking at that GP thread on those tails. They really look pretty good, but I'm still on the fence. Good enough to justify $200+? Not sure. I might make custom one's though after I've fixed all of the broken parts and gotten most performance mods in (sans stage 3). I've done custom LED work in the past, so I'm sure I could come up with something that looks good.

Thanks [:d]

biketsai
07-12-2009, 02:49 PM
I cant get over this, FREE S4?!?! Im about to do a clutch job myself, but im not getting a free car out of it.

shorterthanrich
07-12-2009, 03:02 PM
I cant get over this, FREE S4?!?! Im about to do a clutch job myself, but im not getting a free car out of it.

I know. Pretty much the best thing that's ever happened to me.

I'm also already spending so much more than I had intended on spending...

I'm trying to think of some 1/2 decent aesthetic mods to do to entertain myself after I'm Stage II+ next month. Any ideas? If I don't buy rims, I'm going to repaint mine. I don't know how I feel about gunmetal on a Noggy, so I might just clean up the curb rash and repaint them similar to stock/brighter silverish. Maybe I'll pick up an RS4 grill, paint the Y-pipe, and all of the engine covers, etc...

I'm about to start searching what's worth doing on a Stage II+ to get a bit more about of it sans going stage III. Trying to wait for the turbos to blow for that jump..

jibberjive
07-20-2009, 05:38 PM
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/IMG_8501Large.jpg


Nice amp[;)]




If I get the wires and a LOC in time. I'm not sure if I can tap into the bose line level wires that go to the stock amp. If anyone knows anything about this - let me know.


You can for sure tap into the low-level line outs at the Bose amp in the trunk, and that will for sure give you the best quality sound (you don't want it to go through all of Bose's processing and amplification (possibly clipping the signal) only to try to convert it back to what it began at with an LOC.) Other than just finding the wiring diagram of the harness at the amp in the trunk, it's really not harder than wiring up an LOC either. I'm not sure if you can find a pair of unterminated RCA's or if you just have a crappy pair that you don't mind hacking up, but you just cut and splice the main wires of the RCA's straight into the correct signal. I think I even used quick-taps so the signal still goes to the stock sub, then I put a switch between the amp and the stock sub so I can turn the stock sub back on when I take my big box out (and for when I sell it, like right now.) It's worked like a charm for me. The only issue I remember is that I had to play with the grounding of the shielding wire on the RCA's. I don't remember where they finally ended up, but I had to switch where I grounded them between the ground wire in the harness and actually grounding them to the frame. If you do that and still have any signal noise, just let me know and I have another tip for you that got rid of my loop noise 100%. Sounds awesome.

Also, for the diagram I think I found it through a quick search on Audiworld. I was looking for my B6 but all I could find was for the B5 S4. Luckily it worked out the same though.

Don't mind the people with differing opinions. To some any car audio is rice, and to others it's a lifestyle. I used to be way into car audio and I don't consider myself nor any of the cars that I drove rice nor ghetto. And after that I don't think I'll ever have a car that I plan on keeping for any good length of time that I won't put at least a sub in because it just makes the music, and therefore the entire driving experience so much more enjoyable. There's not much that I love more than rallying a canyon while listening to music[up]

Keep the pics and updates coming, enthusiasm is contagious and pics are always nice to follow.

shorterthanrich
07-20-2009, 11:34 PM
Nice amp[;)]




You can for sure tap into the low-level line outs at the Bose amp in the trunk, and that will for sure give you the best quality sound (you don't want it to go through all of Bose's processing and amplification (possibly clipping the signal) only to try to convert it back to what it began at with an LOC.) Other than just finding the wiring diagram of the harness at the amp in the trunk, it's really not harder than wiring up an LOC either. I'm not sure if you can find a pair of unterminated RCA's or if you just have a crappy pair that you don't mind hacking up, but you just cut and splice the main wires of the RCA's straight into the correct signal. I think I even used quick-taps so the signal still goes to the stock sub, then I put a switch between the amp and the stock sub so I can turn the stock sub back on when I take my big box out (and for when I sell it, like right now.) It's worked like a charm for me. The only issue I remember is that I had to play with the grounding of the shielding wire on the RCA's. I don't remember where they finally ended up, but I had to switch where I grounded them between the ground wire in the harness and actually grounding them to the frame. If you do that and still have any signal noise, just let me know and I have another tip for you that got rid of my loop noise 100%. Sounds awesome.

Also, for the diagram I think I found it through a quick search on Audiworld. I was looking for my B6 but all I could find was for the B5 S4. Luckily it worked out the same though.

Don't mind the people with differing opinions. To some any car audio is rice, and to others it's a lifestyle. I used to be way into car audio and I don't consider myself nor any of the cars that I drove rice nor ghetto. And after that I don't think I'll ever have a car that I plan on keeping for any good length of time that I won't put at least a sub in because it just makes the music, and therefore the entire driving experience so much more enjoyable. There's not much that I love more than rallying a canyon while listening to music[up]

Keep the pics and updates coming, enthusiasm is contagious and pics are always nice to follow.

I read a DIY on doing this and the person seemed very unhappy with the results. It seems like it should not be complicated and should naturally have superior quality when compared to line voltage, then amping, then line voltage than amping. I guess it will come down to finding the right wires...

After finding the connection it's cake. No problem mating up to those wires and putting some RCA terminations on them. There was no stock sub in my car, so I'm trying to just find the signal that was going to the bose amp in the back of the car.

I still need to poke around in there since I haven't had time. I might go the easy route of LOC so that reverting back to stock is as easy as unplugging. Not making any decisions until I look around in there, though.

Thanks for the car audio support. It's a hard life. I wish I could just leave my stock stereo alone - or better yet - take it out for the weight savings...but it hurts too much to do it.

shorterthanrich
07-20-2009, 11:35 PM
Stage II complete. So, so simple. Vibrant Exhaust through A&P. Pics of stuff all ya'll have already done coming soon.

Exhaust Video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XAHvc4f6ic

Podi Boost gauge arrived, but didn't have time to get it in. I've only glanced at the wiring diagram it came with...I haven't found any actual DIYs or installs on the electrical gauge for the B5 S4, but it naturally doesn't seem particularly complicated.

Piggies in a few more weeks when I get more time at home.

Took the car from Boston to Albany, then Albany to near Hancock, NY this past weekend. MAN what a blast on the twisties and in the rain. That was a great time. Then back to Albany and back to Boston. I sure travel a lot, but when I'm home I really pack those miles in...

jibberjive
07-21-2009, 10:50 PM
I read a DIY on doing this and the person seemed very unhappy with the results. It seems like it should not be complicated and should naturally have superior quality when compared to line voltage, then amping, then line voltage than amping. I guess it will come down to finding the right wires...

After finding the connection it's cake. No problem mating up to those wires and putting some RCA terminations on them. There was no stock sub in my car, so I'm trying to just find the signal that was going to the bose amp in the back of the car.

I still need to poke around in there since I haven't had time. I might go the easy route of LOC so that reverting back to stock is as easy as unplugging. Not making any decisions until I look around in there, though.

Thanks for the car audio support. It's a hard life. I wish I could just leave my stock stereo alone - or better yet - take it out for the weight savings...but it hurts too much to do it.

Have you even looked for the wiring diagram yet? It really took me like 15 mins to find last time, and then there will be no questions about the right wires or not. I'll even snap a pic of my harness and how I did it when I get a min. As far as reversibility, if you just use t-taps or quik taps or whatever they're called, to reverse it it is as simple as just taking them off. It would be the exact same reversal process as taking off the LOC. You don't have to wire in a switch for the stock sub like I did, I just did that so that I didn't have the stock sub playing while I had my sub in, and also could easily turn it back on when the big sub was out. It's by no means necessary, and it's independent of whether you go with an LOC or the low level signal.

shorterthanrich
07-31-2009, 11:20 PM
jib: Next time I'm back home I hope to take a look at the wiring. Do you have a diagram somewhere? You're right, I'm sure I can figure it out. With all the stupid travel I've been doing I get impatient and get the feeling of "I just want to get it done" since I'm away from the car for so long. But the car is a fun project, so I gotta ditch that attitude.

SPEAKING OF FUN PROJECT:

It seems that this thread might ACTUALLY turn into a build thread. I've decided to go stage III+ next summer and want to start planning for it now. The intent is to begin planning, amass all of the parts that I will need, so that I can put it all together next summer in a reasonably timely manner.

BostonblkS4 and I will both be going stage III+ at roughly the same time - using his garage as the workspace.

We're thinking RS6 turbos, so jib, I'll be bugging you about that. The goal is to make it balls fast, while keeping it a DD, and doing all/almost all of the work ourselves. [wrench]

My goal is to spend <$7,000 so GTs are pretty much definitely out of the question. If someone does a good job of talking me into it, I'll end up spending more money (hint hint) and doing a more interesting build. The problem is that I can afford it. I'm just trying to not be stupid and spend all of my money on the car. I think an RS6 build will still be fun, fast, and interesting, but I recognize it's nothing ground-breaking. Between all of the single turbo builds and GT builds and Imola Beast's I-dont-know-what build, what I'm doing is relatively boring.

So, the research begins! Some of the first things I'm trying to determine is
A) Cost of RS6 turbos vs some of the GTs
B) Understanding fueling requirements since I've never dabbled in that before
C) At what point do I need to build what parts of my engine
D) As simple as it sounds, what air intake/ecu requirements I'll have. New MAF (obv)? x-1? Something > than A box...?


Jibbervive, you were right telling me I'd probably go stage III eventually [up]

I do hope to use the fact that I got this car for so little money (effectively $3,000) and put it to damn good use. If I spend $15,000 total (already spend $6,500) or a bit more, it's not too huge of a loss on my ROI and I'll definitely enjoy the car for several more years than I had planned!

B5stgIII
07-31-2009, 11:39 PM
I'm jealous, but looking forward to what you have in store for this thing. props

ashrafnisar
08-01-2009, 02:51 AM
I like LEDs. Call me obsessed, but I really...really love LEDs. I have a known hatred of incandescent light. Stupid inefficient old technology. Not that it actually really matters in a car...
I guess I just like the very "true" color that LEDs give.

I'm still on the fence on the LED tails. Only if I can find ones that are not rice looking. LEDs > incandescent, and can really give an even higher class look to tail lights. I haven't found any that I'm happy with though, so I'll either make my own out of some stock tails or just keep them stock (since they're great looking tails as far as stock goes).

I already have the two 13Ov.2s from my previous car. I custom build boxes, so that's basically free ($30), the wires were cheap, and the amp was $315. I like high fi audio, and have a soft spot for bass. I like to feel it. I'm making it completely removable so that when I want to auto x or anything of that nature I can pop it all right out in 5 minutes.

I know it's not everyone's taste, but it is mine :)

I can see where you're coming from with this. I thought the stock Bose system was okay for about a week, then I recently ended up with a Fi Q 15" woofer and a Sundown SAE-1000D. If you're familiar with it, you can understand why I'm still grinning. Congratulations on the car btw, and enjoy it in between the things that will fail/break/cause you to [headbang]

shorterthanrich
08-01-2009, 09:15 AM
I can see where you're coming from with this. I thought the stock Bose system was okay for about a week, then I recently ended up with a Fi Q 15" woofer and a Sundown SAE-1000D. If you're familiar with it, you can understand why I'm still grinning. Congratulations on the car btw, and enjoy it in between the things that will fail/break/cause you to [headbang]

Dude, NICE choice on equipment. You can not go wrong with that stuff. Fi Q = my dream sub, and then SAE series as exceptional. Nice and efficient amps with top notch build quality.

Also, pics or it didn't happen ;)

ashrafnisar
08-01-2009, 03:43 PM
Dude, NICE choice on equipment. You can not go wrong with that stuff. Fi Q = my dream sub, and then SAE series as exceptional. Nice and efficient amps with top notch build quality.

Also, pics or it didn't happen ;)

Hahahaha, all right, I'll try to get a couple with my phone when I get in the car next time. It's not completed yet, as the speakers and tweeters are all stock, and the Fi is causing me to beat the hell out of them. Some RE components might be on the way, paired to an older Excelon amp I have kicking around. Box needs to be rebuilt by me so I can fit it perfectly in the trunk, but it's not too bad right now, and it's tuned at 32hz so I'm happy. Just gotta brace it so it stops sliding so much.

Honestly, if you really like the Fi line up, go for it. It's REALLY cheap when you compare it to most of the stuff you normally hear of. I paid 250CAD for mine used, and the same price for the amp. In the states, you can buy stuff like that for a whole lot less and it's more readily available. Even brand new the Fi Q (with all options) is under 300USD which is a killer deal for something that'll consistently take over 1000WRMS.

shorterthanrich
08-01-2009, 04:09 PM
Hahahaha, all right, I'll try to get a couple with my phone when I get in the car next time. It's not completed yet, as the speakers and tweeters are all stock, and the Fi is causing me to beat the hell out of them. Some RE components might be on the way, paired to an older Excelon amp I have kicking around. Box needs to be rebuilt by me so I can fit it perfectly in the trunk, but it's not too bad right now, and it's tuned at 32hz so I'm happy. Just gotta brace it so it stops sliding so much.

Honestly, if you really like the Fi line up, go for it. It's REALLY cheap when you compare it to most of the stuff you normally hear of. I paid 250CAD for mine used, and the same price for the amp. In the states, you can buy stuff like that for a whole lot less and it's more readily available. Even brand new the Fi Q (with all options) is under 300USD which is a killer deal for something that'll consistently take over 1000WRMS.

Check out C/D/T components. Killer - especially for the price. Not harsh - very neutral.
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.brands&category_id=10&brand_ID=21

For my custom box I'm thinking of just doing an L bracket on the seat side of the box with wing nuts on it so I can pop it out when I want or something to that effect.

I love the Fi lineup, but I got each of my two 13Ov.2 subs for $70 each. Can't argue with that! Excellent SQ subs, IMO. And the 18mm of xmax isn't too shabby. I know its not 27mm like the Fi, but it works for me - especially with 2 of them ;) Running two of them on 1600 watts I'll be able to fit them into a nice small sealed enclosure and still see plenty of SPL out of them.

ashrafnisar
08-03-2009, 12:29 AM
Check out C/D/T components. Killer - especially for the price. Not harsh - very neutral.
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.brands&category_id=10&brand_ID=21

For my custom box I'm thinking of just doing an L bracket on the seat side of the box with wing nuts on it so I can pop it out when I want or something to that effect.

I love the Fi lineup, but I got each of my two 13Ov.2 subs for $70 each. Can't argue with that! Excellent SQ subs, IMO. And the 18mm of xmax isn't too shabby. I know its not 27mm like the Fi, but it works for me - especially with 2 of them ;) Running two of them on 1600 watts I'll be able to fit them into a nice small sealed enclosure and still see plenty of SPL out of them.

Hmm, I'll take a look, but I'm trying not to dump my bank account into audio. I was actually on there a few days ago considering the Phoenix Gold components that were up for about 60 dollars a pair. Also, if you do like SPL, just go ported and call it a day. Just because you're driving an S4 doesn't mean the only thing that can get loud is the exhaust note [:D] Also, I can't really argue with the pricing of your 13Ov.2's. One other thing I'd suggest when bracing your box: take a look at the hooks that are bolted to the floor. You could just run the bracing under the bolt rather than having to create a new location. That should give you a lot of room to safely mount the amp on the seat, if in fact that is what you're doing. I'm gonna get in there this week to find a good location so I'll update you.

P.S. the Fi BL would really complement that amp if you're into SPL, especially considering you won't have to push it hard at all to power the BL.
P.P.S. You can take a look at these LED tails by inPro. I found them pretty good looking, and I might just order a set to see what it looks like in person. http://www.tmtuning.com/HOME/catalog/product_detail.php?default_product=2317

Pics as promised. Notice the 0ga. power wire. That had to have been the most profanity filled day of this year. The system is now running off an Eclipse AVN726E boasting 5V pre-outs, built-in nav, bluetooth, DivX capabilities etc. Not to mention the red button lighting to match stock interior. That was the biggest challenge for a headunit. Alpine doesn't offer it, I have a personal vendetta against Pioneer, and I require good sound quality. Took awhile, but it was well worth it. Still need to find a good crossover to pair up with my Clarion EQ. Both should be going in as soon as I have them along with two sets of components. Still have to find a suitable mounting location though.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/ashrafnisar/DSC01078.jpg
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/ashrafnisar/DSC01082.jpg
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/ashrafnisar/DSC01084.jpg

shorterthanrich
08-03-2009, 09:58 AM
Niice, thanks for the pics. That is just freaking massive. I hope you sound deadened...
I'm not looking to make this an SPL car at all. Honestly, the audi is the least important thing to me about this car. I've even considered just running a single sealed 12. In my old car I built a nice big ported box @ 32hz and it was ridiculously loud - but I only did that because my car wasn't cool in any other way. It was just something to do.

For the S I want an as small as possible sealed box. Just looking to fill out the low end with a very high SQ, non-intrusive setup. I'm going to be mounting the amp upside down on the bottom of the rear deck so it's out of the way.

I would also skip the Phoenix Gold speakers. They're alright, but there are better comps for just a bit more. C/D/T has a decent set for $125.

I decided against the LED tails. I like the look of the stock ones. I might at some point (if I ever get bored) just make my own LED tails, but I doubt it. They look nice on your car, though.

Eclipse makes a good HU, so you can't go wrong there. Why the hate on Pioneer, though?

I'm also terrified of running the 0 AWG wire in the car. Terrified.

shorterthanrich
08-03-2009, 09:58 AM
So I'm still thinking RS6 turbos, but the GTs don't seem to be THAT much more expensive... I'm just concerned about spool, I guess...

8520
08-03-2009, 01:00 PM
This thread is a nice read, it's just a shame you're getting so much flack for wanting tasteful appearance modifications and a nice stereo system.

As far as your loc goes, just tap in to your factory low level outputs either behind the head unit or at the input side of the amp. Solder or t-tap rca ends on, and sent those to your amp. Ideally I'd recommend an inline "bass knob" like the jl audio one, but you can do without it.

Your factory headunit should have wiring info on it and there will be 5 thin gauge wires that are your low-level out, one for each "corner" and a common ground. The ground will be brown, there and the others are green, yellow and a couple others I can't remember. What I would do is splice rca ends on to the outputs behind your hu, then go directly to your bass knob inputs, and then from there a long set of rca's back to your amp.

ashrafnisar
08-03-2009, 01:05 PM
Niice, thanks for the pics. That is just freaking massive. I hope you sound deadened...
I'm not looking to make this an SPL car at all. Honestly, the audi is the least important thing to me about this car. I've even considered just running a single sealed 12. In my old car I built a nice big ported box @ 32hz and it was ridiculously loud - but I only did that because my car wasn't cool in any other way. It was just something to do.

For the S I want an as small as possible sealed box. Just looking to fill out the low end with a very high SQ, non-intrusive setup. I'm going to be mounting the amp upside down on the bottom of the rear deck so it's out of the way.

I would also skip the Phoenix Gold speakers. They're alright, but there are better comps for just a bit more. C/D/T has a decent set for $125.

I decided against the LED tails. I like the look of the stock ones. I might at some point (if I ever get bored) just make my own LED tails, but I doubt it. They look nice on your car, though.

Eclipse makes a good HU, so you can't go wrong there. Why the hate on Pioneer, though?

I'm also terrified of running the 0 AWG wire in the car. Terrified.

No, I didn't bother deadening, and thanks to stock insulation and deadener it's actually decent inside, and not all that bad from the outside. I can see the point behind keeping the audio setup small, but I guess this deal was too good for me to pass up hahaha.

Btw the LED tails aren't on my car. I'm debating getting a set of them though. And Pioneer HU FTL...terrible grounds, not enough SQ adjustment, screen isn't crisp enough on the double dins. I could go on and on, but I just don't like them personally. Some people swear by them, and that's just fine. It's all personal preference, just like my preference to run a 15" woofer in my S. The 0ga. will cause your side trim to be a little deformed, but it's tuckable. I'll try to get some pics tonight of the HU and the wiring. GL.

wdbdy2000s4
08-03-2009, 01:15 PM
So I'm still thinking RS6 turbos, but the GTs don't seem to be THAT much more expensive... I'm just concerned about spool, I guess...

$4000 difference is the minimum. RS6s are 3200, GTS are 7200.[up]

shorterthanrich
08-03-2009, 03:03 PM
$4000 difference is the minimum. RS6s are 3200, GTS are 7200.[up]

RS6s it is then [up]

shorterthanrich
08-03-2009, 03:24 PM
Thanks a lot. I see why people have an aversion to LEDs and audio. It has a stigma. But anyway that's the smallest/least interesting/least involved part of my build.

Thanks for the info on the taps. Putting RCA connectors right off the back of the HU might work. When I get some time I'm going to poke around near the bose amp in back, too. Unfortunately I wont be home for a few more weeks.

I have a gain control for my amp so an in line bass control won't be an issue, but good thinking [up]




This thread is a nice read, it's just a shame you're getting so much flack for wanting tasteful appearance modifications and a nice stereo system.

As far as your loc goes, just tap in to your factory low level outputs either behind the head unit or at the input side of the amp. Solder or t-tap rca ends on, and sent those to your amp. Ideally I'd recommend an inline "bass knob" like the jl audio one, but you can do without it.

Your factory headunit should have wiring info on it and there will be 5 thin gauge wires that are your low-level out, one for each "corner" and a common ground. The ground will be brown, there and the others are green, yellow and a couple others I can't remember. What I would do is splice rca ends on to the outputs behind your hu, then go directly to your bass knob inputs, and then from there a long set of rca's back to your amp.

shorterthanrich
08-03-2009, 03:25 PM
No, I didn't bother deadening, and thanks to stock insulation and deadener it's actually decent inside, and not all that bad from the outside. I can see the point behind keeping the audio setup small, but I guess this deal was too good for me to pass up hahaha.

Btw the LED tails aren't on my car. I'm debating getting a set of them though. And Pioneer HU FTL...terrible grounds, not enough SQ adjustment, screen isn't crisp enough on the double dins. I could go on and on, but I just don't like them personally. Some people swear by them, and that's just fine. It's all personal preference, just like my preference to run a 15" woofer in my S. The 0ga. will cause your side trim to be a little deformed, but it's tuckable. I'll try to get some pics tonight of the HU and the wiring. GL.

I would imagine that SOMETHING has to be vibrating with a freaking Fi q 15. [hail]

I see your criticisms on the Pioneer. No arguing against that. I haven't had trouble with their grounds in the past, but I have no reason to not believe you either.

I have some ideas for running the 0AWG without messing things up. We'll see....

jibberjive
08-03-2009, 11:09 PM
Hahahaha, all right, I'll try to get a couple with my phone when I get in the car next time. It's not completed yet, as the speakers and tweeters are all stock, and the Fi is causing me to beat the hell out of them. Some RE components might be on the way, paired to an older Excelon amp I have kicking around. Box needs to be rebuilt by me so I can fit it perfectly in the trunk, but it's not too bad right now, and it's tuned at 32hz so I'm happy. Just gotta brace it so it stops sliding so much.

Honestly, if you really like the Fi line up, go for it. It's REALLY cheap when you compare it to most of the stuff you normally hear of. I paid 250CAD for mine used, and the same price for the amp. In the states, you can buy stuff like that for a whole lot less and it's more readily available. Even brand new the Fi Q (with all options) is under 300USD which is a killer deal for something that'll consistently take over 1000WRMS.

Nice sub. I've got one that is VERY similar in my Audi (RE SX15), and in a similarly sized and tuned (from the looks of it) box.

I've got a brand new in box pair of CDT CL61 components with the upgraded TW-25 tweeter if you'd be interested.

Where'd you run the 0ga through the firewall? I'm about to tackle this real soon. Did you upgrade the big 3 with 0ga as well? I'm worried it's too big to fit at some of the connections, like at the alty.

ashrafnisar
08-04-2009, 12:12 AM
I would imagine that SOMETHING has to be vibrating with a freaking Fi q 15. [hail]

I see your criticisms on the Pioneer. No arguing against that. I haven't had trouble with their grounds in the past, but I have no reason to not believe you either.

I have some ideas for running the 0AWG without messing things up. We'll see....

Hahahaha, it depends on what I'm listening to. Most of the stuff I listen to isn't that bad in terms of bass, but occassionally when I put on some southern hip hop stuff I can hear my mirror caps and dome light cover vibrating. I personally haven't owned a Pioneer HU in ages, but within the last year I can think of 4 close friends that owned one and I had to fix their grounding issues. Even the guy that I got the Fi and Sundown from had the problem, and I gave him a hand with his HU's grounding when he first dropped the system in. It seemed like he had a lot of alternator noise, but it was all from the HU's RCA connections. I'm not saying it's the worst thing out there, but I will never own one. Also, in regards to your running the 0ga. without messing things up, I wish you the best of luck. I didn't mess much up on mine but some of the trim is bulging a bit. Hopefully I'll have some pics tomorrow as I forgot to take my camera with me today.

ashrafnisar
08-04-2009, 12:17 AM
Nice sub. I've got one that is VERY similar in my Audi (RE SX15), and in a similarly sized and tuned (from the looks of it) box.

I've got a brand new in box pair of CDT CL61 components with the upgraded TW-25 tweeter if you'd be interested.

Where'd you run the 0ga through the firewall? I'm about to tackle this real soon. Did you upgrade the big 3 with 0ga as well? I'm worried it's too big to fit at some of the connections, like at the alty.

Hmm, I'll have to think about those components. PM me what you'd want for them shipped to Mississauga, Ontario, Canada, L5J4J2. I ran the 0ga. through a pre-existing grommet (this is where it paid to know a good installer personally, as I had the location marked before I even had the wire.) I popped out the rubber cover and then drilled it to size, and then spent the next 40 minutes in the most awkward position on the driver's side floor running it through. The following advice may be personal preference because of the price difference, but the 0ga. being flexible makes a HUGE difference. I went with the Kicker Hyperflex as that is what was available to me, but knukonceptz and Stinger have some good stuff that I've used in friends cars personally. Haven't done the big 3 yet, should be doing that soon hopefully, and I'll let you know how that goes. Currently also looking into possibilities of a HO alternator, although I'm not really getting my hopes up. Might just end up with something like a 92-93 Caprice Estate, or a Roadmaster in which I can get absolute freedom for audio setups. I'll try to take a pic tomorrow for reference on the firewall routing, and hopefully that'll help you out.

8520
08-04-2009, 12:22 AM
For what it's worth, pioneer HU's have issues with noise because they blow a pico fuse inside the HU when you connect the rca's before the main power harness.

ashrafnisar
08-04-2009, 03:32 AM
For what it's worth, pioneer HU's have issues with noise because they blow a pico fuse inside the HU when you connect the rca's before the main power harness.

Hmm, well the one that I can speak for didn't have that issue. The RCA's were run and connected after about 3 months of the deck being in. In any case, that's good info, I'll be looking into that for future reference and to satisfy my curiosity. Thanks.

ashrafnisar
08-05-2009, 01:20 AM
All right, I snapped a couple of pics with my phone tonight. Interior and the side trim where the 0ga. is tucked. You can see the deformation in the panels caused by the 0ga. wire. I may try to make it a little better, but I really don't want to pull the trim again and fight to run the wire as straight as possible.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/ashrafnisar/DSC01093.jpg
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/ashrafnisar/DSC01105.jpg
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/ashrafnisar/DSC01100.jpg
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/ashrafnisar/DSC01101.jpg
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/ashrafnisar/DSC01104.jpg

Also, jibberjive, this is where I ran the cable through the firewall. It was a little triangular grommet that was removed and then I drilled the hole to size so I could fit the wire through. In case it is hard to pinpoint, the grommet is to the left of the brake fluid reservoir. If you look at the second picture, you will see why I recommend flex cable, as regular cable would be really hard to loop back like that. I do have a question regarding something in the second picture. There is a whole lot of rust to the right of the battery on the firewall. Anyone else have this problem? Any suggestions? I thought it might be the little hose coming off the battery which seem to just be dangling. Any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated. Hope the pictures help you with the install and feel free to ask me anything else.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/ashrafnisar/DSC01096.jpg
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/ashrafnisar/DSC01099.jpg

shorterthanrich
08-05-2009, 08:05 AM
Damn, man! Clean that poor thing!

Haha, thanks for the pictures. Yeah that bulging out is pretty serious. Hopefully I'll be able to find a way to avoid that...

I picked up knukonceptz wires. So flexible, so well priced. They're my favorite wires, hands down, every time.

That rust is brutal. How the heck did that happen?

ashrafnisar
08-05-2009, 01:43 PM
Damn, man! Clean that poor thing!

Haha, thanks for the pictures. Yeah that bulging out is pretty serious. Hopefully I'll be able to find a way to avoid that...

I picked up knukonceptz wires. So flexible, so well priced. They're my favorite wires, hands down, every time.

That rust is brutal. How the heck did that happen?

I haven't the slightest clue, and I didn't see it till I took off the covers to run the wire. Hahaha, yeah, I do need to clean it, but I can't be bothered. Summer here hasn't really been warm, so I'm not very motivated. I was going to get some knukonceptz, and then I found two 50ft. spools of Kicker Hyperflex for CAD175/ea. Can't really beat that price, so I just went that way.

S4 BOOST
08-22-2009, 08:35 PM
Damn thats beast.. GL man

-Shane

CrtchRktRcr
08-26-2009, 05:32 PM
shorterthan... don't let this jealous dbags talk like that to you. Stand up for yourself, i'm assuming you're an engineer right? That's fine, you are smarter than majority of these tools and you fell into good luck that we are all insanely jealous of. It's awesome, we just all wish it happened to us. I lost my job, someone should give me a free s4.

shorterthanrich
08-26-2009, 07:11 PM
shorterthan... don't let this jealous dbags talk like that to you. Stand up for yourself, i'm assuming you're an engineer right? That's fine, you are smarter than majority of these tools and you fell into good luck that we are all insanely jealous of. It's awesome, we just all wish it happened to us. I lost my job, someone should give me a free s4.

Thanks for the nice words, but luckily no hate's come my way lately. I stand up for the points I make, but there's no real reason to defend my "self" online, and only a few of the comments were personal. It's all good.

Puttin a lot of love into the car lately, though. I'm finally getting off my travel project so I'll be home eeeevery day working on it after work. Time to finally fix the suspension, auto dimming mirrors, strange-ass ABS problem, air bags, install the JHM shifter, lip spoiler, do piggies, get some nice COs + rear sway, and new wheels + tires.

Damn I have my work cut out for me. That's all stuff to do before I even START my RS6 build. Balls!

JackalS4
08-29-2009, 11:41 PM
Stage II complete. So, so simple. Vibrant Exhaust through A&P. Pics of stuff all ya'll have already done coming soon.

Exhaust Video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XAHvc4f6ic



Nice nice, thanks for sharing the vid! I like it. [up]

JLHroxURface
09-17-2009, 10:11 PM
On teh topic of the LED tails - it's something I've been thinking about for a while (If I can get my hands on a set of cheap stock S4 tails) since I saw this:

http://www.240sxforums.com/forums/do-yourself-section/119623-s13-led-tail-light-conversion.html

Looks all stock sans regular bulbs add LED's. Think it would be great for the S4 tails, I know some people prefer amber turns as well so you could probably make amber LED's work to be red behind plastic when unlit and yet shine amber thru the red when activated. And if you could find some white ones bright enough for reverse... whew. But ya, one day when I have some spare hours and tails. [up]

You may have to have a name/pass to view that post. If so just make one, and if you're too lazy to do that let me know and I'll rehost everything so you can see. I'm nice. [:p]

shorterthanrich
09-18-2009, 10:11 AM
On teh topic of the LED tails - it's something I've been thinking about for a while (If I can get my hands on a set of cheap stock S4 tails) since I saw this:

http://www.240sxforums.com/forums/do-yourself-section/119623-s13-led-tail-light-conversion.html

Looks all stock sans regular bulbs add LED's. Think it would be great for the S4 tails, I know some people prefer amber turns as well so you could probably make amber LED's work to be red behind plastic when unlit and yet shine amber thru the red when activated. And if you could find some white ones bright enough for reverse... whew. But ya, one day when I have some spare hours and tails. [up]

You may have to have a name/pass to view that post. If so just make one, and if you're too lazy to do that let me know and I'll rehost everything so you can see. I'm nice. [:p]

Hm, the page wont seem to load at all.

shorterthanrich
11-05-2009, 10:30 PM
I think it's about time that this thread is updated with something good. When I first got the car, it's clear that I had no intention of going stage 3. Well, that changed pretty fast.

I had this waiting for me from VAST when I got home from Milwaukee today:


http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/IMG_9545Large.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/IMG_9558Large.jpg



Aside from that, last week I put on some nice Vogtland GTs. Man those feel good! Finally, it's starting to feel like I can use the power...

New 19.8lb 18x8.5 et35 wheels are in the mail.

Next step: Save up for Rosten Rods, rod bearings, and main bearings.

B5stgIII
11-12-2009, 01:42 AM
bump, any news?

shorterthanrich
11-12-2009, 10:47 AM
bump, any news?

Not really. I'm saving up for the engine + all engine building materials. Once I have that, I'll probably pick up the fueling and ICs. I'm still on the fence for the IC situation...FMIC or AWE/ER. Just can't decide.

Also, I want 3" DPs, but just really don't want to spend $1,000, and still want a main cat. Suggestions appreciated ;)

DxC and I will be comparing my VAST RS6s with some chinese ones he has, just to judge quality difference.

shorterthanrich
03-13-2010, 04:21 PM
Update:
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0266Medium.jpg

washyourrhands
03-13-2010, 04:23 PM
SICK.

bigern45
03-13-2010, 04:27 PM
nice rich!!! get it going man!! join the stage 3 club of great, fast rides and retardedly stupid expensive and mind boggling problems!!!

FlaS4
03-13-2010, 04:28 PM
http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af44/dustinmacias1989/Borat-VeryNice.gif

shorterthanrich
03-13-2010, 04:47 PM
Thanks, guys. I'll start opening it up ASAP.

It was pretty fun pulling the motor out of the back of the truck by hand with the 4 of us, then wheeling offroad style into my shed:
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0248Medium.jpg

TweetsS4Estate
03-13-2010, 07:28 PM
so your building the motor? if you need pistons let me know i have a set of stock pistons that are basically brand new and i have a set of new 2.8L forged and coated pistons

shorterthanrich
03-13-2010, 07:57 PM
so your building the motor? if you need pistons let me know i have a set of stock pistons that are basically brand new and i have a set of new 2.8L forged and coated pistons

Yep, building the motor. All the parts should be alright on this one, except for the heads (maybe). If any of the pistons are burnt or otherwise messed up, sure I'll let you know. I don't need any forged pistons probably... since I'm just doing RS6s and don't plan on going bigger. I might do 2.8 heads if mine are no good, but I'm not sure of the benefits of 2.8 forged pistons for my application.

If doing a fully built engine, what else is necessary besides rods and pistons? So far I was planning on doing just rods, cleaning up the rest of the stock parts, and replacing all of the bearings, etc.

Also - anyone that KNOWS how to build motors and lives around here - feel free to stop by, give advice, and help out, haha. I literally have no idea what I'm doing. It's all for the learning experience.

shorterthanrich
05-26-2010, 09:16 AM
Updates: Started taking apart the motor. Intake Mani, wiring harness, and drivers side turbo are off. Taking off all of the cooling lines, passenger turbo, and heads soon!

Buying the motor parts this week.

I play on bringing it down to Jake @ DoWerk for machining, balancing, and help with assembly.


Other news:

I am looking for buyers for me VAST RS6 turbos, inlets, and hardware. Totally brand new - just thinking about going BIGGER.

Let me know.

wdbdy2000s4
05-26-2010, 10:01 AM
Label everything in bags. It's not necessary when you're just doing a quick job but since you will probly be waiting over a month for parts to arive and the motor to be machined you will forget where things go. Building these motors is a little more difficult than building an LSx, especially when they are in peices for a long time.

shorterthanrich
05-26-2010, 10:07 AM
Label everything in bags. It's not necessary when you're just doing a quick job but since you will probly be waiting over a month for parts to arive and the motor to be machined you will forget where things go. Building these motors is a little more difficult than building an LSx, especially when they are in peices for a long time.

Yep - I've been crazy with labeling. I'm taking pictures from several angles of every bolt, numbering them, labeling the bag, etc.

shorterthanrich
06-07-2010, 08:39 AM
Time for some updates:

RS6 turbos will be leaving me today. I will be going with some VAST GTs, hoping to make some more power to take better advantage of the built (bottom end) motor.

I have stripped the motor down to the block/rotating assembly and will be bringing it to Jake @ Dowerk soon for machining. A few weeks after that, I'll be joining Jake at the shop for reassembly.

I am picking up engine parts this week. I have already ordered the piston rings, oil pump, and oil pump chain. Plenty more items to get, but that should all happen this week.

Man it was fun taking that motor apart! Everyone that has the opportunity should go for it! Little bit of classic rock on the radio, some nice craft beers, and some 2.7T dis-assembly makes for a nice relaxing evening.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0710Medium.jpg

Then
2.7 and 2.8 Heads
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0719Medium.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0758Medium.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0762Medium.jpg

Small pile of parts

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0759Medium.jpg

Pile of hoses
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0763Medium.jpg

I like this view.
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0757Medium.jpg

Also, anyone privvy to how to get that main pulley off? It seems like I need to get it by the massive center shaft, but lord knows that I don't have a socket big enough for that.

jibberjive
06-07-2010, 10:40 AM
You just undo the hex bolts around the crankshaft, you don't have to deal with the crankshaft itself (though if you do want to rotate it, I believe it's a 22mm 12 pt socket, but don't quote me on that.) You might have to tap it with a mallet to get it loose, but it should come right off.

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm235/jibberjive/RS6%20Build/P5150179.jpg

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm235/jibberjive/RS6%20Build/P5150181.jpg

shorterthanrich
06-07-2010, 11:03 AM
You just undo the hex bolts around the crankshaft, you don't have to deal with the crankshaft itself (though if you do want to rotate it, I believe it's a 22mm 12 pt socket, but don't quote me on that.) You might have to tap it with a mallet to get it loose, but it should come right off.

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm235/jibberjive/RS6%20Build/P5150179.jpg

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm235/jibberjive/RS6%20Build/P5150181.jpg

Thanks! I loosened those up but it didnt seem to budge. I'll give it a little beating.

tgiblin
06-07-2010, 03:13 PM
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm235/jibberjive/RS6%20Build/P5150179.jpg

Whats up with the timing on that motor Jibber?

wdbdy2000s4
06-07-2010, 04:25 PM
That block will clean up real nice. Stripping a motor for the first time is so fun, glad to hear you had a good time. Lemme know when you're wrenching again if you wanna shoot the shit.

shorterthanrich
06-07-2010, 04:32 PM
That block will clean up real nice. Stripping a motor for the first time is so fun, glad to hear you had a good time. Lemme know when you're wrenching again if you wanna shoot the shit.

I'm wrenching every day, man! Any time. Me, BostonBlkS4 (Matt) and MikeyB (Mike) hang out and wrench on the cars every once in a while. We just put meth into Mikes car this weekend before I finished up taking the motor apart.

I'll let you know next time I'm doing anything worthwhile. Now that this is basically ready, I'm going to bring it down to Jake (Sat, 6/19) and expect it back on 7/3 or 7/10. So sometime in July I'll start bolting it all back up!

gearhead1186
06-07-2010, 04:47 PM
excellent. ill be watching closely!!! do you have any goals?

shorterthanrich
06-07-2010, 04:49 PM
excellent. ill be watching closely!!! do you have any goals?

500whp was the goal...now I'd like to see 550 whp. Lofty, but not unattainable. With Meth, the manifolds, 3" DPs and 2.8 heads I think it should be achievable...

gearhead1186
06-07-2010, 04:50 PM
500whp was the goal...now I'd like to see 550 whp. Lofty, but not unattainable. With Meth, the manifolds, 3" DPs and 2.8 heads I think it should be achievable...

log style right?

shorterthanrich
06-07-2010, 04:58 PM
log style right?

Yep. I still expect them to help a bit up top even though they aren't tubular.

I've toyed with the idea of going with 2860s and tubular manifolds, but I really don't want to spend the extra cash building out the top end of my motor. I'd be looking at quite a bit more to do that....hah - you know how much it is...

2560s should be perfect and will hopefully meet the numbers...

jibberjive
06-07-2010, 05:54 PM
Whats up with the timing on that motor Jibber?

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm235/jibberjive/RS6%20Build/P5150197.jpg

That's what. Bought a blown motor for cheap since I'm rebuilding it all.

shorterthanrich
06-07-2010, 09:17 PM
Cheers to a motor dis-assembled! (with the chocolate, caramel, coffee porter I brewed)
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Mobile%20Uploads/1.jpg

gearhead1186
06-07-2010, 09:18 PM
^^ looks like used engine oil [:D]

shorterthanrich
06-07-2010, 09:54 PM
^^ looks like used engine oil [:D]

Haha yeah it kinda does. In person it's a little more amber, but it's deffinitely got that use engine oil tint to it.

Mmm. Real men drink used engine oil.

shorterthanrich
07-14-2010, 09:28 AM
Alright - some real updates!

All of the engine parts arrived in the mail!

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0849Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0850Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0852Medium.jpg


Rosten Rods:

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0854Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0855Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0856Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0857Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0858Medium.jpg

ARP Rod Bolts:

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0859Medium.jpg

Upgraded Springs:

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0851Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0860Medium.jpg

New Head/Main bolts:

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0863Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0861Medium.jpg

OE Piston Rings:

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0864Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0865Medium.jpg

Supertech Inconel Exhaust Valves:

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0867Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0868Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0869Medium.jpg

VAST was kind enough to give me a set of low mileage OEM valves freshly pulled. These will do nicely once they're all cleaned up:

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0877Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0871Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0874Medium.jpg

Random things not picture-worthy:

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0880Medium.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0881Medium.jpg

OEM Bearings:

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0884Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0882Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0883Medium.jpg

Stern Firm Mounts:

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0889Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0888Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0887Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0886Medium.jpg


HUGE thanks to Scotty@Advanced Automation and Prince/Mike @ VAST. Both vendors were EXTREMELY helpful on both helping me decide what to buy AND on price.

Scotty went out of his way to recommend specific products and get the best price possible for me - even ordering parts from overseas AND shipping them 2 day air to get to me on time.

Mike hooked me up with a set of low mileage valves AND they did some pretty fantastic pricing for me. Shipping is always super fast with VAST....

For anyone interested, I created a pretty comprehensive excel spreadsheet for rebuilding motors. It includes just about everything you might need, along with tagging for "must do" if you're rebuilding or not. There are a few pretty sweet pivot charts hooked up to it, too.

wdbdy2000s4
07-14-2010, 10:49 AM
I've toyed with the idea of going with 2860s and tubular manifolds, but I really don't want to spend the extra cash building out the top end of my motor. I'd be looking at quite a bit more to do that....hah - you know how much it is...

Those exhaust valves and springs will be enough to rev out your motor to 8000. I don't see a problem with the 2860s.

shorterthanrich
07-14-2010, 12:49 PM
Those exhaust valves and springs will be enough to rev out your motor to 8000. I don't see a problem with the 2860s.

It's another grand for those turbos and manifolds. Don't they ma out the fuel lines too?

wdbdy2000s4
07-14-2010, 01:02 PM
It's another grand for those turbos and manifolds. Don't they max out the fuel lines too?
I'd say the $1000 for the bigger turbos is much more of an issue than the fuel lines. You'd be maxing out stock fuel lines around 600whp, but bigger lines are only 200-300 dollars if you get a little creative. Even a full braided stainless setup from the tank to the motor would be under $400.

Obviously all of these "litle" fees add up to a difference of $1000-2000. Ijust didn't want you to feel liek your heads were a limiting factor (although I'm sure you researched enough to know this).

AudiSportB5S4
07-14-2010, 01:12 PM
Looking good Rich! [drive]

Any expected completion date/month?

shorterthanrich
07-14-2010, 01:30 PM
I'd say the $1000 for the bigger turbos is much more of an issue than the fuel lines. You'd be maxing out stock fuel lines around 600whp, but bigger lines are only 200-300 dollars if you get a little creative. Even a full braided stainless setup from the tank to the motor would be under $400.

Obviously all of these "litle" fees add up to a difference of $1000-2000. Ijust didn't want you to feel liek your heads were a limiting factor (although I'm sure you researched enough to know this).

Ah, I see. Yeah it's not the heads that would stop me. Its the cost. The fuel lens is ne, the pistons are another. Lots f little things add up. I'm very excited for the modified 2560s and I think I will be very happy with them. At this point, I'd rather do what I'm doing right and not have to wait lnger or try t cut a corner.


Looking good Rich! [drive]

Any expected completion date/month?

Well I have another update soon, but basically the motor is at the shop. It should be done in 2 weeks and the plan is to put it n the car smetime in august...

shorterthanrich
07-14-2010, 02:32 PM
Off to Jake's it goes! I will be down there with him in around 2 weeks (7/24) for assembly and then to take it home!

Also, while getting ready to go down there, I found an easy way to make 500bhp in the S4 without much work!

Though, I still need to work out how to hook it up to the drivetrain... At any rate, I think this is the closest to being a 911 that my S4 will ever get.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/photo2Medium.jpg

Haha, so who else has put an engine, 2 sets of heads, and a few thousand $$ worth of new engine parts in the trunk of their S4 at once?

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/photo5Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/photo3Medium.jpg

Saggin from the weight:

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/photo6Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/photo7Medium.jpg

gearhead1186
07-14-2010, 03:02 PM
off topic but i love those wheels and the stance is great.

shorterthanrich
07-14-2010, 03:11 PM
off topic but i love those wheels and the stance is great.

Thanks man. Its not normally that low in back. While it would look cooler lower, it's just impractical around here and I already rub in the front when I autoX. I have to get the front fenders rolled...

I couldn't be happier with the wheels. 18 or 19 lbs each and I got them at a ridiculously low price.

shorterthanrich
07-28-2010, 12:11 PM
Bah, updates:

Turns out my 2.8 heads were missing the cam caps. The machine shop/guy doing my heads is very adamant about ONLY using the cam caps that come on that particular set of heads, but others (VAST included) suggest that its fine to use the 2.7 cam caps on the 2.8 heads. So, I'm having the shop measure all the tolerances and just make sure that they fit fine. Hopefully it wont be too much of an issue, but it has set me back by at least a week.

Ceramic coating is also going to take longer than anticipated, so it looks like I'll get the parts sometime at the end of Sept. The good news is that as soon as I have them, I'll be ready to get it all in the car!

Anyone have any input on what to do about my spider hose? I have the old style OEM one, which supposedly is prone to breaking. I'd like to fix that problem...plus I should probably have some kind of upgraded oil catch setup.

What to do without spending big dollaz?

Sales@RAI
07-28-2010, 03:00 PM
Bah, updates:

Turns out my 2.8 heads were missing the cam caps. The machine shop/guy doing my heads is very adamant about ONLY using the cam caps that come on that particular set of heads, but others (VAST included) suggest that its fine to use the 2.7 cam caps on the 2.8 heads. So, I'm having the shop measure all the tolerances and just make sure that they fit fine. Hopefully it wont be too much of an issue, but it has set me back by at least a week.

Ceramic coating is also going to take longer than anticipated, so it looks like I'll get the parts sometime at the end of Sept. The good news is that as soon as I have them, I'll be ready to get it all in the car!

Anyone have any input on what to do about my spider hose? I have the old style OEM one, which supposedly is prone to breaking. I'd like to fix that problem...plus I should probably have some kind of upgraded oil catch setup.

What to do without spending big dollaz?

I would get another set of OEM 2.8 heads unless your going to do a line bore, but either way it is never recommended to use another set of cam caps

shorterthanrich
07-28-2010, 03:02 PM
I would get another set of OEM 2.8 heads unless your going to do a line bore, but either way it is never recommended to use another set of cam caps

He can sell me a set for $400, but that's a pretty significant cost considering I already spent a few hundred on this set. I dont understand how everyone disagrees on whether or not its OK.

If someone wants my 2.8 heads without cam caps for 2 or $300, then I can consider it.

shorterthanrich
08-23-2010, 12:58 PM
Sold my 2.8 cams to recoup most of what I spent on those heads, got new heads, machine work done.

Date set to pick up the motor and reassemble it. Second weekend in September.

Last payment sent for GT28R turbos, VAST Manifolds, and Downpipes! Also getting a nice little surprise from VAST that I'm pretty excited about.

Sending payment for clutch today! I'm going with a Southbend Stage IV 6 or 8 puck ceramic unless anyone has a compelling reason not to.

Still need to work out an INEXPENSIVE solution for the PVC system/oil catch can. That's pretty much the last thing I need to work out. Not sure what I'm doing with that...

Fueling will come just a few weeks after install, while I'm still breaking everything in. Until I get that I'll just be on my APR software.

Can anyone recommend a decent inexpensive temporary garage to setup for the motor swap thats happening in around a month?

jesters22
08-27-2010, 03:46 PM
dam jealous of this ....

AAAA
08-27-2010, 04:02 PM
Sold my 2.8 cams to recoup most of what I spent on those heads, got new heads, machine work done.

Date set to pick up the motor and reassemble it. Second weekend in September.

Last payment sent for GT28R turbos, VAST Manifolds, and Downpipes! Also getting a nice little surprise from VAST that I'm pretty excited about.

Sending payment for clutch today! I'm going with a Southbend Stage IV 6 or 8 puck ceramic unless anyone has a compelling reason not to.

Still need to work out an INEXPENSIVE solution for the PVC system/oil catch can. That's pretty much the last thing I need to work out. Not sure what I'm doing with that...

Fueling will come just a few weeks after install, while I'm still breaking everything in. Until I get that I'll just be on my APR software.

Can anyone recommend a decent inexpensive temporary garage to setup for the motor swap thats happening in around a month?

Any reason to go with the stage 4? I'd do stage 5 and just forget it. i wouldn't risk that clutch not taking the abuse in a year or so and having to pull it all apart again. just go with a stage 5 ceramic 6 puck and call it a day, you'll love it!

as for running on apr software, i'd double check that with mike. i imagine you already did that and since you're not going to get on it during break in it may not be an issue but i wouldn't risk it

shorterthanrich
09-08-2010, 09:49 AM
The turbos, wastegates, downpipes, manifolds, AND fueling are scheduled for arrival on Sept 24th. [:D][:D][:D]

I'm picking a clutch right now. Any advice on the next best thing to a twin disc? I just don't have the cash for one, and I wont for a very, very, very long time.

http://www.034motorsport.com/clutches-flywheels-southbend-clutches-flywheels-audi-s4a6allroad-27t-b5c5-southbend-clutch-kit-p-20121.html

I was leaning towards the SS Stage 4. But is that actually a pucked clutch? It seems that the DXD-SS Stage 3 is the pucked ceramic, but has a lower claimed ft-lb rating.

Assistance appreciated!

Also, anyone know of a good/cheap temporary garage setup thing?

wdbdy2000s4
09-08-2010, 10:45 AM
You can use my rael garage if you want. Just let me know the days so I don't go away for the weekend.

Do you want to get rid of those 2.8 heads?

shorterthanrich
09-08-2010, 10:48 AM
You can use my rael garage if you want. Just let me know the days so I don't go away for the weekend.

Do you want to get rid of those 2.8 heads?

Ah, interesting. I may have to take you up on that. I'll PM you.

I took care of the 2.8 heads situation. I sold the cams for the price that I paid for them, and then bought a good set of 2.8 heads.

wdbdy2000s4
09-08-2010, 10:56 AM
I thought you were saying you had an extra set of bad 2.8 heads and you just sold the cams. I guess I fail at reading comprehension.

shorterthanrich
09-08-2010, 11:00 AM
I thought you were saying you had an extra set of bad 2.8 heads and you just sold the cams. I guess I fail at reading comprehension.

That's basically the case. I still technically own the 2.8 heads without the cams in them.

wdbdy2000s4
09-08-2010, 11:03 AM
How much you want for them? I only need the castings anywho.

drkenan
09-08-2010, 11:05 AM
Just in case the garage thing doesn't work out, I did my full stage 3 build over last winter in one of those "garage in a box" things. It was a 12x20. Worked really well aside from being insanely cold. I'm actually selling it for super cheap too - $100 when it retails for $350 - but you probably wouldn't want to pay shipping.

shorterthanrich
09-08-2010, 11:10 AM
How much you want for them? I only need the castings anywho.

Let me make sure the machine shop held onto them for me. If they still have the heads I'll happily sell them to you for a special price. I give you very good deal. Vewy good special pwice.


Just in case the garage thing doesn't work out, I did my full stage 3 build over last winter in one of those "garage in a box" things. It was a 12x20. Worked really well aside from being insanely cold. I'm actually selling it for super cheap too - $100 when it retails for $350 - but you probably wouldn't want to pay shipping.


Just in case the garage thing doesn't work out, I did my full stage 3 build over last winter in one of those "garage in a box" things. It was a 12x20. Worked really well aside from being insanely cold. I'm actually selling it for super cheap too - $100 when it retails for $350 - but you probably wouldn't want to pay shipping.

That might be an awesome option. My plan was to use a garage in a box. Where did you get it? How much would shipping be? It might still be worth it for me. If you linked me to what you used, that would be awesome.

Nexus1155
09-08-2010, 11:14 AM
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0248Medium.jpg


WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH where these candids coming from. LOL First time I noticed this pic in here. Anyways man, you got a BJ's right down the road from you! my neighbor bought his temp garage there, or Costco, but it was only like $150? And hes had it up for 3 years now, bad thing, he needed to anchor it into the ground. Hammer Drill style.

wdbdy2000s4
09-08-2010, 11:26 AM
Anyways man, you got a BJ's right down the road from you! my neighbor bought his temp garage there.

<- Lives across the street from said BJs (more or less).

Nexus1155
09-08-2010, 11:34 AM
jesus I didn't know everyone was so close. I'm actually at my tanning salon on broadway in everett. Rt.99 area.

shorterthanrich
09-08-2010, 11:51 AM
WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH where these candids coming from. LOL First time I noticed this pic in here. Anyways man, you got a BJ's right down the road from you! my neighbor bought his temp garage there, or Costco, but it was only like $150? And hes had it up for 3 years now, bad thing, he needed to anchor it into the ground. Hammer Drill style.

Yeah, I'm gonna try Costco, since I don't have a BJs membership. I found it on walmarts website at least...

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Caravan-Canopy-10-x20-Carport-Garage-Bundle/12517294?sourceid=1500000000000003260410&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=12517294#Specifications

Nexus1155
09-08-2010, 11:59 AM
If worst case, nobody has it, I have a BJ's card I can swing by and we can go pick it up one day, and im sure wdbdy has one too being so close by. But it works good, holds up through the winter pretty well. See if you can find one that has front and back zipper flaps to prevent wind from getting in.

drkenan
09-08-2010, 12:08 PM
That might be an awesome option. My plan was to use a garage in a box. Where did you get it? How much would shipping be? It might still be worth it for me. If you linked me to what you used, that would be awesome.

This is the exact one I used...
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200148624_200148624

When I took it down, I left parts of it intact so that it wouldn't take so damn long to set up in the future. I'd probably have to ship it in a refrigerator box but if you're interested, let me know. There is a reason I'm selling it cheap though...it has a small hole in the roof (never leaked too bad in rain or snow though) and a small tear in the rear wall. It's also kind of dirty from where I would touch it with dirty Stage 3 hands. [:D]

gearhead1186
09-08-2010, 12:08 PM
The turbos, wastegates, downpipes, manifolds, AND fueling are scheduled for arrival on Sept 24th. [:D][:D][:D]

I'm picking a clutch right now. Any advice on the next best thing to a twin disc? I just don't have the cash for one, and I wont for a very, very, very long time.

http://www.034motorsport.com/clutches-flywheels-southbend-clutches-flywheels-audi-s4a6allroad-27t-b5c5-southbend-clutch-kit-p-20121.html

I was leaning towards the SS Stage 4. But is that actually a pucked clutch? It seems that the DXD-SS Stage 3 is the pucked ceramic, but has a lower claimed ft-lb rating.

Assistance appreciated!

Also, anyone know of a good/cheap temporary garage setup thing?

I would go with their Stage 3 - SS DXD-B (Drag). Its their old Stage 5 clutch. The reason the full faced feramic disc has a higher torque rating is probably because its full faced disc. If you are going to beat on it I would suggest the above since its more capable of handing abuse. O wait look I have one for sale. [:D]

shorterthanrich
09-08-2010, 01:18 PM
I would go with their Stage 3 - SS DXD-B (Drag). Its their old Stage 5 clutch. The reason the full faced feramic disc has a higher torque rating is probably because its full faced disc. If you are going to beat on it I would suggest the above since its more capable of handing abuse. O wait look I have one for sale. [:D]

Ahah, I see. Why exactly can the DXD-B withstand more abuse with it's lower torque rating? I'm just imagining that when the motor is producing more like 650 ft-lbs of torque...the clutch wont be particularly happy about it...

Assuming the car can make somewhere between 500 and 550 whp, which is what I'm hoping for...

gearhead1186
09-08-2010, 01:42 PM
Ahah, I see. Why exactly can the DXD-B withstand more abuse with it's lower torque rating? I'm just imagining that when the motor is producing more like 650 ft-lbs of torque...the clutch wont be particularly happy about it...

Assuming the car can make somewhere between 500 and 550 whp, which is what I'm hoping for...

unfortunately there is no industry standard for setting clutch torque ratings. some companies' clutches wont slip until torque 50% above the torque rating is applied. some will slip right at the listed torque rating. that makes it tough to judge clutches between companies. however, material and cluch design is something that will clue you on how a clutch will behave. torque rating aside, the heat capacity of a clutch is mostly based on the disc material. metallic/ceramic can withstand a great deal more heat than its kevlar counterpart before damage or failure occurs.

taking disc material, design, pp and torque rating you can start to guess how companies rate their torque capacity. For example, Spec rates their stg3 ceramic 6 puck at 815 ft lbs and SB rates their drag stg3 ceramic 6 puck at only 525 ft lbs. Both clearly use hi clamp pp's and any slight difference in clamp load will not make up 300ft lbs of difference. Clearly you can see that SB rates their clutches very conservatively while Spec rates them closer to their slipping point. hope this cleared some things up.

shorterthanrich
09-08-2010, 04:02 PM
unfortunately there is no industry standard for setting clutch torque ratings. some companies' clutches wont slip until torque 50% above the torque rating is applied. some will slip right at the listed torque rating. that makes it tough to judge clutches between companies. however, material and cluch design is something that will clue you on how a clutch will behave. torque rating aside, the heat capacity of a clutch is mostly based on the disc material. metallic/ceramic can withstand a great deal more heat than its kevlar counterpart before damage or failure occurs.

taking disc material, design, pp and torque rating you can start to guess how companies rate their torque capacity. For example, Spec rates their stg3 ceramic 6 puck at 815 ft lbs and SB rates their drag stg3 ceramic 6 puck at only 525 ft lbs. Both clearly use hi clamp pp's and any slight difference in clamp load will not make up 300ft lbs of difference. Clearly you can see that SB rates their clutches very conservatively while Spec rates them closer to their slipping point. hope this cleared some things up.

That sounds reasonable to me. Unfortunately, it doesn't make sense to buy yours since I have my nearly new AWE lightweight flywheel in the car already. Not unless you want to sell without the flywheel anyway.

But, thanks for the help on the clutch choice. I think this is pretty much the clutch that I had in mind, I just thought it was called the stage 4 clutch, rather than the DXD series stage 3.

gearhead1186
09-08-2010, 04:09 PM
That sounds reasonable to me. Unfortunately, it doesn't make sense to buy yours since I have my nearly new AWE lightweight flywheel in the car already. Not unless you want to sell without the flywheel anyway.

But, thanks for the help on the clutch choice. I think this is pretty much the clutch that I had in mind, I just thought it was called the stage 4 clutch, rather than the DXD series stage 3.

the SB ceramic 6 puck with sachs pp was originally called their stage 5. now its their stage 3 in their DXD Drag Line.

shorterthanrich
09-08-2010, 04:16 PM
the SB ceramic 6 puck with sachs pp was originally called their stage 5. now its their stage 3 in their DXD Drag Line.

Yep, and thank you for illuminating that fact to me. Huge help! Now I know exactly what to get, which is awesome. Ah, another productive day in my corporate job.

Seriously, thanks again Mike. When I'm all finished up, we have to meet up to do some runs! Though I KNOW your build is far beyond mine. It will be fun, anyway!

gearhead1186
09-08-2010, 04:18 PM
Yep, and thank you for illuminating that fact to me. Huge help! Now I know exactly what to get, which is awesome. Ah, another productive day in my corporate job.

Seriously, thanks again Mike. When I'm all finished up, we have to meet up to do some runs! Though I KNOW your build is far beyond mine. It will be fun, anyway!


no prob. im always down for some friendly runs.

shorterthanrich
09-09-2010, 06:35 AM
no prob. im always down for some friendly runs.

Sweet! Well, hopefully everything comes together in the next month or so... I think I have two more issues to tackle: What to do about the PVC system, since I don't want to put it back together with that potential failure point, and what, if anything, I should do about an oil cooler. Other than that I think I'm all square...

jibberjive
09-09-2010, 02:42 PM
Seriously, thanks again Mike. When I'm all finished up, we have to meet up to do some runs! Though I KNOW your build is far beyond mine. It will be fun, anyway!

Yeah, you guys will have to do some pulls! I think both of your guys' builds are right on par. I'm curious to see the outcome.

shorterthanrich
09-09-2010, 03:09 PM
Yeah, you guys will have to do some pulls! I think both of your guys' builds are right on par. I'm curious to see the outcome.

While I appreciate the compliment, Mike has a fully built valvetrain with 770s (which are bigger than the GT28R by a fair margin, no?), and a fair amount of fancy custom pieces. That and the man knows what he's doing far beyond myself.

I've got the VAST modified 2560s, 2.8 heads with supertech exhaust valves and Rosten Springs, rods with a refreshed motor, VAST manifolds, downpipes, and inlets, VAST tuning/fueling. That's basically VASTs standard GT700+ kit with 2.8 heads with some work and built rods.
I will have ERs and meth when complete as well.

At the end of the day, while I'm ridiculously excited about my build, it doesn't really have anything particularly custom or crazy. However, as far as "for the community" type things, I'm looking forward to showcasing what VASTs GT700+ kit can do on a well put together, DD car. I hope to be a log whore, get on a few dynos, blah blah.

cjk
09-09-2010, 03:19 PM
Look forward to seeing some results soon man!

Spooled1.8
09-09-2010, 03:49 PM
Excited to see the results [up]

shorterthanrich
09-09-2010, 03:56 PM
Haha, thanks guys. We're still a ways away from results, unfortunately! I'll hopefully have some good pictures of the longblock going together this weekend, then updates trickling in until the 24th when I get the rest of the parts in the mail from VAST. Once I have the parts, it will probably be a few weekends of putting the motor together, double checking that I have everything I need, and then hopefully a weekend or two doing the swap!

Also, my company will be at the Great American Beer Festival in Denver, CO for 9/16, 9/17, and 9/18, so I won't be getting any assembly done that weekend. Oh well, beer wins the beer vs car battle that weekend!

shorterthanrich
09-09-2010, 04:00 PM
<- Lives across the street from said BJs (more or less).

Haha, just to clarify, Nexus is talking about the BJs in Medford where I was living up until a few weeks ago. He probably noticed it when he dropped off my motor from the back of his SUV with DxC.

Now I live 8 minutes from the BJs that you're talking about, which is pretty damn close!

wdbdy2000s4
09-09-2010, 04:29 PM
Haha, just to clarify, Nexus is talking about the BJs in Medford where I was living up until a few weeks ago. He probably noticed it when he dropped off my motor from the back of his SUV with DxC.

Now I live 8 minutes from the BJs that you're talking about, which is pretty damn close!
8 minutes with or without rush hour traffic? [:p] haha

I'm going down to Dave's tonight for a spare block.

shorterthanrich
09-09-2010, 04:39 PM
8 minutes with or without rush hour traffic? [:p] haha

I'm going down to Dave's tonight for a spare block.

Haha, no kidding. I'm selling him mine after I pull the engine. Hell, instead of going down to Daves, just buy mine after I pull it out right into your garage hahaha

GaroBlu
09-09-2010, 05:25 PM
Wow, I had no idea about this car. Great story-- glad to see you taking care of it.

shorterthanrich
09-10-2010, 06:46 AM
Wow, I had no idea about this car. Great story-- glad to see you taking care of it.

Thanks! It's been a long year, but I'm glad to have this car in my driveway rather than at the junkyard! She's got years and years of "spirited driving" left in her!

MikeyB3
09-10-2010, 08:56 AM
Rich, you're my hero.

gearhead1186
09-10-2010, 11:09 PM
when r u getting the goodies from vast?

shorterthanrich
09-11-2010, 07:58 AM
Rich, you're my hero.

Haha, thanks Mike.


when r u getting the goodies from vast?

Sept 24th is the proposed date of arrival...

wdbdy2000s4
09-12-2010, 11:12 AM
Are you guys putting all the accessories on the motor (timing belt, waterpump, etc.) at Jakes?

shorterthanrich
09-12-2010, 11:15 PM
Are you guys putting all the accessories on the motor (timing belt, waterpump, etc.) at Jakes?

The timing belt and water pump are going on. I'm not sure how mug else. There will still probably be a fair bit to do to get it fully back together.

New pickup date is 9/25. Should be back with it mid afternoon.

DxC
09-14-2010, 11:35 AM
cool! its comin together. i wanna see the vast kit when you get it!

shorterthanrich
09-14-2010, 12:11 PM
cool! its comin together. i wanna see the vast kit when you get it!

Absolutely man. I'm pumped to get it. I'll also have my engine for you shortly after we're done. I only have a few more details to work out.

I gotta find the best price on the Southbend DXD-SS Stage 3 - (KF70286F-SS-DXD-B) clutch without the southbend flywheel and figure out what to do about the PCV system. I think that's just about it, now.

Anyone know where to get that clutch without the flywheel at a good price?

Rich

gearhead1186
09-14-2010, 01:27 PM
aside from SouthBend themselves, try Scotty @ Advanced Automotion or Mike Hood @ Ringer Racing.

shorterthanrich
09-14-2010, 01:30 PM
aside from SouthBend themselves, try Scotty @ AdvanceAutomotion or Mike Hood @ Ringer Racing.

Thanks. I'm guessing you sold yours?

wdbdy2000s4
09-14-2010, 01:31 PM
Look on vortex to see what vendors will be at H20. Usually you can get substantial discounts if you buy @ a show.

gearhead1186
09-14-2010, 02:23 PM
Thanks. I'm guessing you sold yours?

I have somebody who put a deposit on it and paying in full next week. i dont normally do that but there arent many builds out there that need a clutch like this.


Look on vortex to see what vendors will be at H20. Usually you can get substantial discounts if you buy @ a show.

good point. didnt think of that.

nefkntym
09-23-2010, 10:17 AM
Nice to see the progress on this buddy. I PMed you yesterday.

shorterthanrich
09-23-2010, 10:27 AM
Nice to see the progress on this buddy. I PMed you yesterday.

Thanks, man. Getting the engine on Saturday, supposedly. Hopefully it's true this time.

I'll send you that excel sometime soon - prob this weekend. I'm up to my eyeballs in work between my consulting job, Pintley, moving into a new place, and trying to get this car together.

nefkntym
09-23-2010, 10:39 AM
That great new about the motor. I hope you get it on time. I hate missed deadlines with machine shops. You want good work, but damn it gets your hopes up.

Not a problem with the excel. I have some big decisions regarding the smurf.

bps4
10-06-2010, 10:25 AM
bump.. hows the build going rich?

nefkntym
10-07-2010, 10:56 AM
Hey buddy, what's the good word?

shorterthanrich
10-08-2010, 12:43 PM
Hey guys, so we ran into a small issue re-assembling the motor. The main bolts were for a different generation of 2.7T. No big deal, got the right ones shipped super fast from Scotty @ Advanced. I plan on heading down Monday or Tuesday night to put the block back together and take it home.

Talked to Prince yesterday and all of my stuff is finished and should ship out this week. Getting an updated spider hose from them, too.

I'm going to call scotty and southbend to see what they can do on price for the southbend clutch. SS DXD-B (Drag), that Mike (gearhead) suggested. It seems to be about as hardcore as it gets before getting a twin, which I just can't afford.

Hell, all of this is going together and I wont even be able to upgrade the SMICs for a while, hah. How sad. Same with meth... oh well

nefkntym
10-08-2010, 12:47 PM
Good to know. Glad everything is coming along buddy.

wdbdy2000s4
10-08-2010, 01:21 PM
The engine stand looks kind of lonely in my garage. I might have to move my block next to it in the meantime to keep it company.

WMi_S4
10-08-2010, 02:37 PM
Rich, I can sell you the SB clutch for $900 shipped, LMK know man. BN, old stg 5 new stg 3 drag like you want.


Hey guys, so we ran into a small issue re-assembling the motor. The main bolts were for a different generation of 2.7T. No big deal, got the right ones shipped super fast from Scotty @ Advanced. I plan on heading down Monday or Tuesday night to put the block back together and take it home.

Talked to Prince yesterday and all of my stuff is finished and should ship out this week. Getting an updated spider hose from them, too.

I'm going to call scotty and southbend to see what they can do on price for the southbend clutch. SS DXD-B (Drag), that Mike (gearhead) suggested. It seems to be about as hardcore as it gets before getting a twin, which I just can't afford.

Hell, all of this is going together and I wont even be able to upgrade the SMICs for a while, hah. How sad. Same with meth... oh well

Matt Danger
10-08-2010, 09:22 PM
Hey guys, so we ran into a small issue re-assembling the motor. The main bolts were for a different generation of 2.7T.

What/when was the changeover?

shorterthanrich
10-11-2010, 10:26 AM
The engine stand looks kind of lonely in my garage. I might have to move my block next to it in the meantime to keep it company.

Haha I know, I know - its away from its only mate, the 2.7T. Soon they will be reunited! Feel free to nuzzle it up to your 2.7 in the meantime.

Also, since I get email updates for this thread, to respond to the comments you edited out, yes, I know, it's what I get for quitting my day job, and Pintley is going very well, thank you very much, haha. If Pintley goes according to plan, I'll make up for it and do a ridiculous single turbo or LSx situation eventually.


Rich, I can sell you the SB clutch for $900 shipped, LMK know man. BN, old stg 5 new stg 3 drag like you want.

Sending you a PM.


What/when was the changeover?

Not sure, actually. Apparently you need to see the engine code to know which main bolts you need. I called up Scotty, gave him my engine code, and he hooked me up.

Sales@RAI
10-11-2010, 11:34 AM
1.8Ts have this also. Some people use generics though and they seem to work. Nothing wrong with being too cautious while building a motor tho

shorterthanrich
10-12-2010, 01:55 PM
Crappy update: Seems the shop that has my motor was robbed a few nights ago, and some of my parts are among the missing.

It seems to not be serious items, but we'll be acquiring the missing parts. So much for going down there this week. Next week at best :-/

nefkntym
10-12-2010, 02:02 PM
Seriously...WTF!!! That's horse pucky!!! I hate thieves.

Sorry about the bad news buddy. That sucks.

shorterthanrich
10-14-2010, 12:04 PM
Ordered the new Friction Plate from AWE for the flywheel. DAMN THEM for charging so much all the damn time. $117 shipped! Come on, that's ridiculous.

The machine shop that got robbed has secured a shortblock at a good price thanks to DxC, which will have all of the parts missing from my build. Hopefully leaving work early and heading down on Tuesday to get the motor.

If anyone wants to donate about a thousand dollars for a clutch, that would be swell ;) If not, I'll have it ordered before everything goes into the car.

shorterthanrich
10-22-2010, 09:06 AM
Alright, some good updates! I went down to Jake @ DoWerk's shop last night and we assembled most of the motor. Since his shop was robbed, we found out we were missing a simple ratchet adapter, and so we couldn't finish. He's going to time up the motor and bring it up today.
Working at the shop with Jake was GREAT. I've never done any motor internals work before, and he was extremely patient explaining all of the processes to me. I'm feeling a whole lot more confident and excited about this whole process, now that the motor is nearly finished and getting to see the great work of his garage and machine shop.

The clutch has been ordered! Basically the same as Evil-Evo. Custom Southbend Clutch, extreme load pressure plate (I think its a 30 or 40% increased clamp pressure) with a 6 puck ceramic disc. Should hold pretty well.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/DSCN1264Small.jpg

Just a bit of shaving on the bottom for balancing
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/DSCN1261Small.jpg

Weight:
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/DSCN1260Small.jpg

Clean n' machined:
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/DSCN1259Small.jpg

Crankshaft:
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/DSCN1270Small.jpg


Some ridiculously clean oil pan shots:
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/DSCN1274Small.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/DSCN1273Small.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/DSCN1275Small.jpg

New oil pump and clean pan on:
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/DSCN1281Small.jpg

Built 2.8L Heads!
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/DSCN1283Small.jpg


Supertech exhaust valves. Those stock 2.7 intake valves cleaned up nicely!
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/DSCN1284Small.jpg


Almost there...hopefully finishing up today
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/DSCN1288Small.jpg

RolledMySTi
10-22-2010, 11:51 AM
Looking good.

nefkntym
10-22-2010, 11:52 AM
Nice. I am glad that things are coming together for you.

gearhead1186
10-22-2010, 08:30 PM
great progress..

wdbdy2000s4
10-24-2010, 07:10 AM
I'm looking forward to seeing this bad boy today!!

bigern45
10-24-2010, 08:25 AM
awesome rich!! nice to see its coming along.. btw.. dont YOU owe me a test drive when its finished??? i can hook you up with a place to stay here in KY..[>_<][>_<]

shorterthanrich
10-24-2010, 04:55 PM
great progress..

Thanks Mike. I'm going to give you a call shortly...


I'm looking forward to seeing this bad boy today!!

Oh well...sometime this week. I'll explain later. I'll probably call you, too.

awesome rich!! nice to see its coming along.. btw.. dont YOU owe me a test drive when its finished??? i can hook you up with a place to stay here in KY..[>_<][>_<]

Hahaha yeah man, that's definitely true. Any good breweries out in KY? Maybe I need to go on a "sales call" out to KY, haha.

gearhead1186
10-24-2010, 09:24 PM
It was nice finally meeting you today. I'll be following your thread extra closely now. Better make it for Thanksgiving. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.

shorterthanrich
10-25-2010, 07:09 AM
It was nice finally meeting you today. I'll be following your thread extra closely now. Better make it for Thanksgiving. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.

Thanks, Mike. Your car is SICK. Just the sound alone...it's a complete monster. It felt fast even at 5 PSI, haha.

I do hope to be driving it down to LI for Thanksgiving, so the crunch is on!

shorterthanrich
10-25-2010, 07:27 AM
Alright, so updates de interesante:

Some mixup happened with the 2.8 heads. If you've been following my build, then a while ago you saw that the 2.8 heads I had bought came without cam-caps, and so they were basically useless to me. I was able to sell the cams for the price I paid for the heads, so no big deal. The set that was picked up for me...has a slight issue. One head is perfectly fine. The other, seemingly matching head, which has the same part number on the casting, bolts up just fine, etc, is different. The oil feed line hits the 2.7 valve cover AND the line itself is significantly smaller. When this set of heads was picked up, there were 2 sets on the table, so we're thinking the set got mismatched, and the other "2.8" set were some crazy set of heads that LOOKS identical on first glance...but isn't.

So, long story short, Jake discovered this issue and decided that since this is a high RPM build, the best option is to go and retrieve the proper matching head to the set. He has it in possession and is swapping over all of my parts into it today. The motor will be brought up to me sometime this week, probably Wed or Thursday. It's a small setback, but Jake is taking care of it above and beyond my expectations, so I'm really happy about that.

nefkntym
10-25-2010, 09:22 AM
Alright, so updates de interesante:

Some mixup happened with the 2.8 heads. If you've been following my build, then a while ago you saw that the 2.8 heads I had bought came without cam-caps, and so they were basically useless to me. I was able to sell the cams for the price I paid for the heads, so no big deal. The set that was picked up for me...has a slight issue. One head is perfectly fine. The other, seemingly matching head, which has the same part number on the casting, bolts up just fine, etc, is different. The oil feed line hits the 2.7 valve cover AND the line itself is significantly smaller. When this set of heads was picked up, there were 2 sets on the table, so we're thinking the set got mismatched, and the other "2.8" set were some crazy set of heads that LOOKS identical on first glance...but isn't.

So, long story short, Jake discovered this issue and decided that since this is a high RPM build, the best option is to go and retrieve the proper matching head to the set. He has it in possession and is swapping over all of my parts into it today. The motor will be brought up to me sometime this week, probably Wed or Thursday. It's a small setback, but Jake is taking care of it above and beyond my expectations, so I'm really happy about that.

Wow, that could have really ended badly. I am glad it is all going to work out for you in the long run. I am looking forward to you getting your Noggy back on the road, actually I am looking forward to seeing more of your's and Mike's cars in general. Congrats buddy, keep up the good work.

shorterthanrich
10-29-2010, 10:44 AM
This has been a good few days.
Tuesday, 10/26: clutch arrived
Wed, 10/27: Engine delivered
Thursday 10/28: 1/2 the turbo kit arrived

shorterthanrich
10-29-2010, 10:53 AM
Aaaaand the turbos just got here. HELL YES.

nefkntym
10-29-2010, 10:56 AM
^^^ Outstanding.

shorterthanrich
10-29-2010, 11:01 AM
unboxing right now and pics soon. VAST sent me a T-Shirt. Awwww, thanks guys haha

shorterthanrich
10-29-2010, 11:59 AM
Alright, what an awesome week.

Southbend Stage 4 Extreme Clutch (Southbend 6 Puck Cerametallic with high clamp pressure Sachs Pressure Plate)
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_0512Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_0513Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_0514Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_0515Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_0516Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_0517Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_0518Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1066Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1068Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1070Small.jpg

shorterthanrich
10-29-2010, 12:05 PM
The first part of the kit from VAST. Downpipes, test pipes, inlets, wastegates, wastegate dump tubes, V-Bands, AEM Air filter, some cooling lines.

Also shown but NOT part of the VAST GT700 kit: Upgraded spider hose and Snub Mount.

I had VAST ceramic coat everything possible. Most importantly, to reduce bay temps as much as possible. Secondly, everything looks pretty cool coated in black like that..so clean.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1096Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1097Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1098Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1099Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1100Small.jpg

mmmm welds:
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1102Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1103Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1104Small.jpg

Wastegate porn:
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1106Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1107Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1108Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1109Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1110Small.jpg

Normally, there's a last bend at the bottom to reduce the sound of the wastegate dumping. I asked VAST to skip that bit, because I won't mind the noise at all. They say it pretty quiet the way they normally do it.
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1112Small.jpg

cjk
10-29-2010, 01:06 PM
Jealous....haha. Looks nice man!

shorterthanrich
10-29-2010, 01:28 PM
The whole kit:
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1114Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1115Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1116Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1118Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1119Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1120Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1122Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1130Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1131Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1133Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/GT%20Build/IMG_1136Small.jpg

nefkntym
10-29-2010, 02:29 PM
Very nice indeed. Congrats.

AudiSportB5S4
10-29-2010, 03:26 PM
Sick man!! Can't wait until it comes together.. Good luck [up]

bigern45
10-30-2010, 10:22 PM
no joke rich, this thing is going to be impressive to say the least..

WMi_S4
11-02-2010, 11:39 AM
Great man, I am super excited to see this bad boy come together!! Practically the same build I am doing, though I haven't decided whether I want to stick with just the GT2560's, upgrade to the billet wheel on the 2560's, or take that $1100 for the billet wheel and step up to the 800hp GT28RS kit.

What was your thought process Rich that made you decide against the billet wheel or the 28RS's?

shorterthanrich
11-02-2010, 12:02 PM
Great man, I am super excited to see this bad boy come together!! Practically the same build I am doing, though I haven't decided whether I want to stick with just the GT2560's, upgrade to the billet wheel on the 2560's, or take that $1100 for the billet wheel and step up to the 800hp GT28RS kit.

What was your thought process Rich that made you decide against the billet wheel or the 28RS's?

I decided to stick with the strait 2560s for both personal and technical reasons.

Originally I was not going to build the valvetrain at all. Because of that, I decided that I didn't want crazy top end power, because I wouldn't be able to use it. Then I decided to upgrade the valvetrain partially, so I can rev to around 8k.

Also, in VASTs original post, the GT700 kit came with the billet wheel. It was later revised not to. For a bit, I was under the impression that my kit would include the billet wheel. After I found out that it doesn't, I decided to stick with the 2560s so as not to need to go past 8k RPMs and to save an extra $1,000+. Sometimes I feel like I should just spend it, but since I'm leaving my job in 3 days to run my own business, I decided now is not the time to spend an extra thousand dollars on something "unnecessary."

If business goes well, I'll probably pull these turbos off in a year or two and put on 28RSs with a billet wheel and finish building the valvetrain...or do a single turbo setup. Either way, that was my thought process...

wdbdy2000s4
11-02-2010, 03:03 PM
I decided now is not the time to spend an extra thousand dollars on something "unnecessary."
...but buying a gt kit and building you rmotor was necessary? lol [evilsmile]

shorterthanrich
11-02-2010, 03:30 PM
...but buying a gt kit and building you rmotor was necessary? lol [evilsmile]

Haha, that decision was made before I had officially decided to leave my job. Originally, I thought that the GT700 kit came with the billet wheel. Also, originally I wasn't going to build the valvetrain at all.

So, way back when I had the RS6 kit and VAST released their new GT kits I realized that the RS6s with 3" DPs was basically the same cost as the GT kits, so I basically "returned" the RS6s and went for a GT kit that was cheapest and wouldn't require a built valvetrain. I figured I'd be saving at least the $1200++ for the valvetrain and the $1200+ for the upgraded turbos. I ended up partially building the valvetrain, but it was only around $600 in parts. I needed a valve job, so I figured that at least upgraded valves and springs was in order since I'd "be in there."

So then, after I'd chosen everything, and was pretty sure that I knew when I was leaving my job, I realized that it would be an extra bunch of money for the billet wheel or the 28RS turbos. Since I knew the limitations on finances, I decided that would be too much extra at that point. PLUS shouldn't I really have done the retainers if I want to be revving to 8k+ for the larger turbos?

ugh don't make me question my logic! haha

shorterthanrich
11-02-2010, 03:45 PM
Thanks, Mike. I hope it all works out! I have so little free time I feel like I'm crawling with this.

In other news, how worthwhile do you guys feel the upgraded JHM linkages are? I have the short shifter, and I'm contemplating if I should complete the JHM trio while I have it all apart...

gearhead1186
11-02-2010, 03:51 PM
Thanks, Mike. I hope it all works out! I have so little free time I feel like I'm crawling with this.

In other news, how worthwhile do you guys feel the upgraded JHM linkages are? I have the short shifter, and I'm contemplating if I should complete the JHM trio while I have it all apart...

if you have the money, now is the time to do it. one more weak point eliminated. [wrench]

shorterthanrich
11-02-2010, 04:20 PM
Hm, well there's these three things:
The solid linkage: http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/jhm-solid-linkage-upgrade-for-b5-s4-2000-2002all-p-8.html?osCsid=e7f7f93f9b65c5482fae6ae7b190edab
The Delrin Stabilizer Bushing: http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/jhm-delrin-shifter-stabilizer-bushing-for-s4-2000-20015early-p-6.html?osCsid=e7f7f93f9b65c5482fae6ae7b190edab
The Crossrod: http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/jhm-linkage-cross-rod-upgrade-early-for-b5-s4-c5-a6allroad-p-237.html?osCsid=e7f7f93f9b65c5482fae6ae7b190edab

It seems that you can't use the upgraded crossrod with the upgraded bushing, correct? Of these three parts, what is most prone to failure?

gearhead1186
11-02-2010, 05:01 PM
Hm, well there's these three things:
The solid linkage: http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/jhm-solid-linkage-upgrade-for-b5-s4-2000-2002all-p-8.html?osCsid=e7f7f93f9b65c5482fae6ae7b190edab
The Delrin Stabilizer Bushing: http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/jhm-delrin-shifter-stabilizer-bushing-for-s4-2000-20015early-p-6.html?osCsid=e7f7f93f9b65c5482fae6ae7b190edab
The Crossrod: http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/jhm-linkage-cross-rod-upgrade-early-for-b5-s4-c5-a6allroad-p-237.html?osCsid=e7f7f93f9b65c5482fae6ae7b190edab

It seems that you can't use the upgraded crossrod with the upgraded bushing, correct? Of these three parts, what is most prone to failure?

Im running all three. I would rate them in importance the same way you listed them. I originally ran the first two and then after seeing somebody break their crossrod at waterfest, i decided to pick up JHMs upgrade as well.

WMi_S4
11-02-2010, 05:16 PM
Hm, well there's these three things:
The solid linkage: http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/jhm-solid-linkage-upgrade-for-b5-s4-2000-2002all-p-8.html?osCsid=e7f7f93f9b65c5482fae6ae7b190edab
The Delrin Stabilizer Bushing: http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/jhm-delrin-shifter-stabilizer-bushing-for-s4-2000-20015early-p-6.html?osCsid=e7f7f93f9b65c5482fae6ae7b190edab
The Crossrod: http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/jhm-linkage-cross-rod-upgrade-early-for-b5-s4-c5-a6allroad-p-237.html?osCsid=e7f7f93f9b65c5482fae6ae7b190edab

It seems that you can't use the upgraded crossrod with the upgraded bushing, correct? Of these three parts, what is most prone to failure?

The crossrod is a MUST!! I broke mine on a break easy 2-3 shift....I can't believe the material Audi used when they designed that piece...plastic, give me a f'ing break! I would also recommend the linkage, if you plan on running the 1/4 or slamming gears in a street pull, both are a necessity IMHO.

bigern45
11-02-2010, 05:22 PM
yeah rich, save time and energy and "sigh" moments and do them all three. i actually think the crossroad should be second on the list; i had mine break at the track, had to go home in 3rd and 4th only..

gearhead1186
11-02-2010, 05:25 PM
The crossrod is a MUST!! I broke mine on a break easy 2-3 shift....I can't believe the material Audi used when they designed that piece...plastic, give me a f'ing break! I would also recommend the linkage, if you plan on running the 1/4 or slamming gears in a street pull, both are a necessity IMHO.


yeah rich, save time and energy and "sigh" moments and do them all three. i actually think the crossroad should be second on the list; i had mine break at the track, had to go home in 3rd and 4th only..

there ya go rich. i havent driven my car hard yet so thats prolly why i didnt actually break my original cross rod.

shorterthanrich
11-02-2010, 05:34 PM
Can the stabilizer bushing actually be used with the upgraded crossrod, though? On the website it says something about it binding?

gearhead1186
11-02-2010, 05:42 PM
Can the stabilizer bushing actually be used with the upgraded crossrod, though? On the website it says something about it binding?

JHM means u need to use the stock bushing on the other end of the cross rod. In their first design they used a solid ball bearing design and there was binding. The JHM stabilizer bushing can be used. Thats for the separate stabilizer rod.

shorterthanrich
11-02-2010, 05:45 PM
JHM means u need to use the stock bushing on the other end of the cross rod. In their first design they used a solid ball bearing design and there was binding. The JHM stabilizer bushing can be used. Thats for the separate stabilizer rod.

Thanks for the clarification!

I'm looking at what my PTO payout is going to be when I leave the company...and I'll make my decision based on that. Since there are apparently a lot of stories of these breaking...I might just need to buy it. Hard to make the call, though, when I'm skipping meth and intercoolers for a little bit. I guess this is more important since its a risk.

bigern45
11-02-2010, 06:30 PM
mike is right, there are 2 different bushings in converse right now. the crossbar uses the OEM softer rubber bushing, the delrin bushing goes to another support. there are 2 rods that go the shifter. one goes to the trans linkage, the other bolts to the right side of tranny housing. this is where the delrin bushing goes. the crossbar bolts to another pivot on the case and uses the OEM bushing.. .

bigern45
11-02-2010, 06:33 PM
Thanks for the clarification!

I'm looking at what my PTO payout is going to be when I leave the company...and I'll make my decision based on that. Since there are apparently a lot of stories of these breaking...I might just need to buy it. Hard to make the call, though, when I'm skipping meth and intercoolers for a little bit. I guess this is more important since its a risk.

remember, your car can be tuned as a beast without meth and intercoolers. yes, it will be amazing and that much more badass when you add them, but these crossbars are breaking on OEM (stock) setups, their junkie plastic isnt even good enough for that.. it sure as heck wont be good enough even for frisky shifting in your setup. and remember, when you start strengthening everything, the weakest link goes..

gearhead1186
11-09-2010, 09:25 PM
any updates?

shorterthanrich
11-11-2010, 09:18 AM
Not right now. My last day at work was on Friday, then I flew to Florida, now I'm back and just handing some Pintley things.

Still waiting to get my intake manifold, throttle body, and breather in the mail...

Still thinking about upgrading the linkages...I probably will, but I need to wait for my old job to give me my final payout...

chapel
11-12-2010, 07:35 AM
hmm, looks good. I notice your local. Have I ever run into you? You ever been to one of my dyno days?

shorterthanrich
11-12-2010, 10:48 AM
hmm, looks good. I notice your local. Have I ever run into you? You ever been to one of my dyno days?

I'm not sure if we've run into each other. I haven't brought the car to any dyno days, yet, so I wouldn't have seen you at any of those!

DxC
11-12-2010, 02:45 PM
neon orange valvecovers!!!!111

wdbdy2000s4
11-12-2010, 02:52 PM
neon orange valvecovers!!!!111
are you powdercoating his VCs?

chapel
11-12-2010, 06:01 PM
were you at S-fest?

gearhead1186
11-12-2010, 06:31 PM
were you at S-fest?

I was there with 2 EPL cars. Dave and his hybrid rs6 nogaro and Evans TiaL 605 imola. I dont think rich was there. Unless he came after I left.

*Blue-Angel*
11-12-2010, 09:37 PM
Hm, well there's these three things:
The solid linkage: http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/jhm-solid-linkage-upgrade-for-b5-s4-2000-2002all-p-8.html?osCsid=e7f7f93f9b65c5482fae6ae7b190edab
The Delrin Stabilizer Bushing: http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/jhm-delrin-shifter-stabilizer-bushing-for-s4-2000-20015early-p-6.html?osCsid=e7f7f93f9b65c5482fae6ae7b190edab
The Crossrod: http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/jhm-linkage-cross-rod-upgrade-early-for-b5-s4-c5-a6allroad-p-237.html?osCsid=e7f7f93f9b65c5482fae6ae7b190edab

It seems that you can't use the upgraded crossrod with the upgraded bushing, correct? Of these three parts, what is most prone to failure?

Are you guys using there shifter as well or OEM

shorterthanrich
11-15-2010, 12:17 PM
neon orange valvecovers!!!!111

Just waiting on the ported intake mani from Jake, then I'm ready for some coating! The orange is VERY bright...


are you powdercoating his VCs?

Yes! I need to stop by and pick them up soon so I can clean them off before going to Dave's.


were you at S-fest?

Nope.


Are you guys using there shifter as well or OEM

I have the JHM shifter.

gearhead1186
11-24-2010, 10:28 AM
hows it going rich?

shorterthanrich
12-06-2010, 12:08 AM
Progress on getting the motor back together. its the frustrating part where you realize all the tiny things that are missing. Oh well, not too bad. Powder coated the valve covers, oil pan, and intake mani!

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_1244Large.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_1245Large.jpg

On another note, two questions:

1: What is the best sealant to use for the valve covers and for the oil pan?
It was suggested by some friends to use LocTite 510 for the oil pan or any metal to metal (where there's no gasket) sealing. The reason being that it supposedly does not dry into a rubbery material. In the case that I used it on the oil pan, if there is any residue on the inside, it will not break off and clog the oil. I have no idea where to find it, and it seems to be $50+ for a small tube online. Any ideas?

It was suggested that I use Permatex "The Right Stuff" for the valve covers/wherever there is a rubber gasket. This is in addition to the rubber gaskets. http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-34311-Right-Imports-Gasket/dp/B000HBNXTC/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1291619100&sr=1-10

2: When re-assembling, I noticed that this small part had a rubber o-ring on it. Wondering if I should replace it. If so, what is it?
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/photo1.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/photo2.jpg
And it attaches here:
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0732Medium.jpg

wdbdy2000s4
12-06-2010, 09:08 AM
That's the oil distributor that you're bolting onto the block so you should probably replace the gasket. It would be a bitch to take out the motor and tear the whole thing apart to replace that one gasket when you find out it's leaking. That being said, the gasket looks like it's in good shape.

P.S. that garage sucks.

shorterthanrich
12-06-2010, 10:40 AM
That's the oil distributor that you're bolting onto the block so you should probably replace the gasket. It would be a bitch to take out the motor and tear the whole thing apart to replace that one gasket when you find out it's leaking. That being said, the gasket looks like it's in good shape.

P.S. that garage sucks.

Ah, I figured some sort of important liquid would travel through that... I'm looking for the part now...it seems to be "N 90777301" so I suppose I'll have to go to a local dealer for that.

Any other o-rings and bits like that that I'll run into? I'd like to pick them all up at once.

gearhead1186
12-06-2010, 10:42 AM
Ah, I figured some sort of important liquid would travel through that... I'm looking for the part now...it seems to be "N 90777301" so I suppose I'll have to go to a local dealer for that.

Any other o-rings and bits like that that I'll run into? I'd like to pick them all up at once.

o-rings on your oil piping in the oil pan.. some hard coolant lines have o-rings also.

shorterthanrich
12-06-2010, 10:56 AM
o-rings on your oil piping in the oil pan.. some hard coolant lines have o-rings also.

Hm, I might have to just call up Scotty and tell him to send me every o-ring

The oil piping in the oil pan's o-rings should have been replaced when that bit was assembled...if the mechanic did his job correctly, anyway...

Matt Danger
12-06-2010, 04:05 PM
I reused that o-ring when I disconnected the hardline to replace my rear main seal. 15k miles so far so good.

shorterthanrich
12-07-2010, 11:14 PM
Alright, I'm gonna need O-Rings all up in this bitch. All of the cooling hard-lines require O-rings. Some of them don't look so good. Rather than risk it, I'm just going to try to replace all of them.
Example:
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0558Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0559Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_1267Medium.jpg

Phil may be able to post up what all the necessary part numbers are, and I'll stop off at a friend of a friend's shop and see if I can't get all of those little bastards.

In other news, the oil pan is all on:
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0560Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0561Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_1265Medium.jpg

Any comments on how that sealant looks? I really was just kind of guessing at how much I should put on. I tried to be as conservative as possible, but the can kind of exploded a few times...

Mmmmm, VAST:
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_1266Medium.jpg

wdbdy2000s4
12-08-2010, 06:33 AM
Phil may be able to post up what all the necessary part numbers are, and I'll stop off at a friend of a friend's shop and see if I can't get all of those little bastards.
Sorry about all of the asterisks, you can't use large quantities of spaces so I used a random symbol instead.
Rubber Gaskets:
Part Number ************************ Quantity
+ N 909 125 01 ************************ 2
+ N 903 800 02 ************************ 1
+ N 905 607 01 ************************ 1
+ N 903 653 02 ************************ 1
+ N 903 168 02 ************************ 1
+1H0 121 687 A *********************** 1

Sealing Washers:
Part Number ************************ Quantity
+ N 013 811 5 ************************ 1
+ N 013 814 9 ************************ 1
+ N 013 849 5 ************************ 1

wdbdy2000s4
12-08-2010, 12:08 PM
I looked over the etka, and the AN->NPT fitting won't work since the banjo bolt is metric and NPT is standard. I talked to jason@amd today and he recommended two of these bad boys:
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-FTG-018&Category_Code=ATP-FTG1

bigern45
12-08-2010, 04:38 PM
def change all those o-rings now.. had one go bad that was a bitch to get to..

shorterthanrich
12-08-2010, 05:04 PM
I went to a guy today and gave him that list...he should be able to have most of them for me tomorrow sometime

shorterthanrich
12-14-2010, 09:49 PM
Much progress, even though it's slow from missing bolts here and there.

Wondering, what happens with this guy with the GT kit? (pic coming soon)

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0633Medium-1.jpg

Also wondering...I imagine that I need timing belt covers for the 2.8 engine if I've got 2.8 heads..?

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0577Medium.jpg

It doesn't look the same as yours, Mike...
http://inlinethumb10.webshots.com/40265/2094788320103989424S600x600Q85.jpg

gearhead1186
12-14-2010, 09:51 PM
Also wondering...I imagine that I need timing belt covers for the 2.8 engine if I've got 2.8 heads..?

same covers. no need to order another set.

shorterthanrich
12-15-2010, 12:48 PM
Updated with images in the last post. Mike, it doesn't look quite the same as yours...

Plugged the extra coolant holes on the 2.8 heads. Tapped them with a 1/2-13 - same as what you did, Mike.
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0573Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0574Medium.jpg

Here's how it sits right now...
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0575Medium.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_0576Medium.jpg

wdbdy2000s4
12-15-2010, 01:18 PM
the resolution on your camera is amazing!!!! [:p]

cjk
12-15-2010, 01:51 PM
Nice progress man!!

shorterthanrich
12-15-2010, 03:43 PM
the resolution on your camera is amazing!!!! [:p]

yeah yeah, haha. Why don't you post that pic you took with YOUR phone [;)]

Thanks, cjk.

Still need to figure out the engine covers. Got one missing banjo bolt, waiting on another banjo bolt and AN fittings which will come in tomorrow...

Still need to figure out what to do with that mess of hoses that I pictured. Anyone know?

wdbdy2000s4
12-15-2010, 05:43 PM
yeah yeah, haha. Why don't you post that pic you took with YOUR phone [;)]
You know my stupid BB can't compete with an Iphone in terms of picture quality/internet/feautres/style/etc....At least it doesn't drop calls in my garage though. haha

shorterthanrich
12-16-2010, 03:55 PM
So I MIGHT be able to use the 2.8 engine covers if I get the set to match the front. we'll see...

otherwise, I need 2.7 covers, and I'll need to pull the timing belt off. Not the end of the world, but kind of a PITA.

As for all of those lines I was wondering about...they basically get replaced. The barbed fittings on the compressor covers go into a Y, then the single part of the Y goes into the bottom of the boost controller. The right angles of the boost controller each separately go to the wastegates. So I can probably use the stock little "y" but I'll probably try to get a brass one so its less likely to break.

shorterthanrich
12-17-2010, 11:12 AM
Talked to Prince and got the wastegate lines all figured out. This is the only part of the kit that's required some DIY, so I do think that they should include this in the kit in the future. Everything else is ready made and bolt on, and this stuff is cheap so there's no reason for it not to be included. Anyway, here's how I made it work...

Let it be known that I hate leaks. What I dislike most about this car is all of the opportunities for leaks, all of the plastic fittings that get destroyed in the high heat of our engine bays. So rather than using the stock y-fittings, I spent way too much money at home depot and made some brass ones, wrapped them too many times in teflon tape, and used a breaker bar and a vice to get it in ridiculously tight.

You need:
2 1/4" brass "T" female only
4 3/16 - 1/4 threaded brass barb
2 1/4 - 1/4 threaded brass barb
Teflon tape or pipe sealant
A bunch of 3/16th ID fuel line. I bought 10 feet to have room to play. You probably only need 5 or 6 feet.
Part of the stock lines. I cut them to make it cleaner.
Heat shielding. I used the stock ones, but it wont be enough.


http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_1287Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_1288Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_1296Small.jpg

shorterthanrich
12-19-2010, 10:00 AM
Meanwhile, in Boston:

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_1318Small.jpg

shorterthanrich
12-27-2010, 08:00 AM
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_1346Small.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_1348Small.jpg

And this is where I left it...almost in.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk299/shorterthanrich/Motor%20Build/IMG_1358Small.jpg

AudiSportB5S4
12-27-2010, 08:11 AM
Damn Rich looks awesome!! Can't wait until you fire it up [up]