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View Full Version : need help from all you ICE guru's out there



OnE.8T
11-26-2004, 06:03 PM
well i went shopping for a deck today. i'm going to go with one of the new alpines. so i go to good guys and the person who helped me said that if i install an aftermarket deck it will cut out my rear speakers due to the pre amped bose system. so they were going to charge me and extra $100 to re wire all the speakers. i decided to hold off on the deck. now i need to know if this is true, or if good guys is just trying to jack me for more money. any help and suggestions would be great.

Audi1.8t
11-26-2004, 06:13 PM
well on my bose system my rears had their own amp so i believe this is true, i was told the same thing by multi people but i just pulled all my system and replaced with better stuff.

kassper
11-26-2004, 06:18 PM
I'm not sure how its all set up...but if it has its own amp wouldnt it just run rca cables? maye not because its oem stuff...but if you remove the amp, which it sounds like their going to do you wont get as much power to the speakers. you would probably be better off buying a separate amp to power the speakers. But im no ice expert

OnE.8T
11-26-2004, 06:19 PM
i really like how the stock system sounds i just want to change the deck. is there anyway i can keep the bose system and still run the aftermarket deck?

Audi1.8t
11-26-2004, 06:21 PM
yeah i believe you can wire all the speakers through the stock deck but i dont think it will sound that good.....you are running into the same problem i had that is why i said f*ck it and just replaced the whole system.

OnE.8T
11-26-2004, 06:25 PM
what did you replace it with? how much is all that going to cost?

Audi1.8t
11-26-2004, 06:35 PM
i got a kenwood 7inch LCD head unit, Playstation 2, with MB Quart three ways up front (i got custome kick panels made) two MB Quart 12 inch subs, and a Precision Power amp, 6 disc CD changer. Cost is all relative it is all about the quality of the stuff you want, i got all my stuff off eBay so i saved alot of money and had a buddy help me install everything.

Ben@SpeedBarn
11-26-2004, 06:36 PM
HMMM....I thought bose amped all speakers and non-bose just amped the rear. I had non bose and the rear drivers side speaker had an amp attached to it. All you need to do for just the rears is run 2 pair of speaker wire back the the rears from the head unit. Def not worth $100.

Like I said though I think the bose system amps all speakers and all the speakers with the bose system are a wierd ohmage. That would lead me to believe it's not a good idea to use an aftermarket amp on them.

Note: I said "I think" a lot.

OnE.8T
11-26-2004, 06:44 PM
i really appreciate the help still

pierce
11-26-2004, 08:25 PM
Well, since Bose components are just as good as any aftermarket, unless you're willing to go big on $$$ for JL comps., this was my idea. In mine (whenI actually have enough cash), I'm thinking about putting in 2 JL 10w6v2's and an Alpine IVA-D901 in the deck. My buddy had Bose and put in an aftermarket deck and ran into no problems rewiring and he got it done at HiFi-Buys. Maybe it's the manner in which they're installing it?

Saturnine
11-26-2004, 09:59 PM
Yup. the bose system in my 01' ran on 2ohms.

Soundstream speakers were the only ones that i could find that were 2ohms..


Originally posted by Ben@SpeedBarn
HMMM....I thought bose amped all speakers and non-bose just amped the rear. I had non bose and the rear drivers side speaker had an amp attached to it. All you need to do for just the rears is run 2 pair of speaker wire back the the rears from the head unit. Def not worth $100.

Like I said though I think the bose system amps all speakers and all the speakers with the bose system are a wierd ohmage. That would lead me to believe it's not a good idea to use an aftermarket amp on them.

Note: I said "I think" a lot.

BoostTed
11-27-2004, 01:29 AM
Originally posted by Saturnine
Yup. the bose system in my 01' ran on 2ohms.

Soundstream speakers were the only ones that i could find that were 2ohms..

I still have them still

kris_tdi
11-27-2004, 01:32 AM
you can buy a lead from audi and many other places which allows you too use an aftermarket headunit with the stock speakers.
its about 30 dollars i believe.

4ingDrive
11-27-2004, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by kris_tdi
you can buy a lead from audi and many other places which allows you too use an aftermarket headunit with the stock speakers.
its about 30 dollars i believe.

There's no aftermarket harness for the line level plug. You can hardwire an end off of some old rca's into the amplifiers inputs behind the deck. It doesn't cost $100 to do, they're ripping you off. It takes about 5 extra minutes.

OnE.8T
11-27-2004, 01:02 PM
they also said if i put the aftermarket deck the bose amp will not be working anymore. the interior speakers will just be powered by the deck. is this also true?

BoostTed
11-27-2004, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by OnE.8T
they also said if i put the aftermarket deck the bose amp will not be working anymore. the interior speakers will just be powered by the deck. is this also true?

Here is what you need to do.
The front will be powered from the headunit.

The rears you need to run RCA's from the preouts and then convert the RCA to speaker wires. You can splice into the stock speaker wires for the rear speakers.

Stock the fronts are powered from the headunit and should be 4ohms. The rears are powered from the bose amp, dont try to power these with the aftermarket headunit. That wont work.

OnE.8T
11-27-2004, 07:02 PM
so let me get this straight. when the aftermarket deck is in, it will only power the front speakers. but the bose amp will still be powering the rear speakers?

BoostTed
11-27-2004, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by OnE.8T
so let me get this straight. when the aftermarket deck is in, it will only power the front speakers. but the bose amp will still be powering the rear speakers?
yes

OnE.8T
11-27-2004, 07:18 PM
ohh okay gotcha, hey thanks a lot boosted. i remember your black a4 back in the days and i must say that 350z is lookin real sick. your a4 was the inspiration for mine.

http://images8.fotki.com/v116/free/3d961/4/402261/1419649/pic1-vi.jpg?1097805600

Bigblk4
11-27-2004, 08:41 PM
I have a Blaupunkt San Fransico in mine. You have to remove the amp for the back speakers to get them to work. You basically bypass the rear amp and run directly off the headunit.

OnE.8T
11-28-2004, 02:06 AM
now i'm getting confused. boosted said that the bose amp will be powering just the rear speakers. but your saying that i'm going to have to bypass the whole thing so that now the amp is just there taking up space and not being used?

kris_tdi
11-28-2004, 06:19 AM
Originally posted by 4ingDrive
There's no aftermarket harness for the line level plug. You can hardwire an end off of some old rca's into the amplifiers inputs behind the deck. It doesn't cost $100 to do, they're ripping you off. It takes about 5 extra minutes.

yes there is, ill try find a link, i have definately seen them.

kris_tdi
11-28-2004, 06:32 AM
here you go, knew i had seen one

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=1350

only £15 too.

4ingDrive
11-28-2004, 11:09 AM
In a Bose system the amp runs everything, not just the rears. You can also bypass the Bose amp. Either way you do it will yeild approximately the same results. You'll soon realize the Bose speakers suck ass. There's an equalization circuit in the stock deck that makes the Bose speakers sound "ok". Without this they sound extra thin. Good luck!

BoostTed
11-28-2004, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by OnE.8T
now i'm getting confused. boosted said that the bose amp will be powering just the rear speakers. but your saying that i'm going to have to bypass the whole thing so that now the amp is just there taking up space and not being used?
on a non bose you can bypass the amp, since hte speakers are 4ohms. On a Bose system the speakers are 1.5-2ohms power them with your headunit and you are looking for trouble.

OverSpun
11-28-2004, 01:20 PM
with an aftermarket headunit, what happens with that top portion of the center display where it shows the track and Cd, and radio stations and stuff? does it just no longer function? or what

4ingDrive
11-28-2004, 01:21 PM
It no longer functions.

OverSpun
11-28-2004, 01:21 PM
that blows, i like that as sort of a safety feature, so i dont have to look over at the radio. its easier to look down quickly, than over to the right while you flip stations.

4ingDrive
11-28-2004, 01:22 PM
That would be nice along with steering wheel controls.

Bigblk4
11-28-2004, 02:37 PM
you can get the track info to show up on the display as well as using the steering wheel controls as long as you know what wires go to what on the headunit/harness. I replaced the HU in my 3000 GT and kept the wheel control. Same can be done for the Audis if I am not mistaken. It might take some time, and some tracking down of the wires but should still function.
Todd

BoostTed
11-28-2004, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by Bigblk4
you can get the track info to show up on the display as well as using the steering wheel controls as long as you know what wires go to what on the headunit/harness. I replaced the HU in my 3000 GT and kept the wheel control. Same can be done for the Audis.
I highly doubt you can get info to show on on the display. First reason being, on so you figure out which wires are used to display. Now find a headunit that has output for radio info and such. If and if you can find one, it will most likely be proprietory with that company's display. Or it may use a simple RCA output for display. Audi uses a CAN BUS(i think thats what its called) interface. I highly doubt any aftermarket headunit can display info on the Audi's stock display.

Bigblk4
11-28-2004, 02:56 PM
The Blaupunkt group (I cannot speak for all companies) has display info for Radio, CD, and Changer. The wiring can be tapped and it should work. Again I am not an expert on this (I would never claim that) but it SHOULD work. http://www.bluespot.co.uk/vw.asp is for the controls on the wheel.
http://www.12v.org/mods/index.php?include=stereo shows the areas to what hooks up where on the Blaus.
Please let me know if this helps, if it doesnt I can look into it further. My 99 1/2 doesnt have the on dash or steering wheel controls so it was straight foward. The 3000 had the SW controls and I changed it over to work.
Todd

BoostTed
11-28-2004, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by Bigblk4
The Blaupunkt group (I cannot speak for all companies) has display info for Radio, CD, and Changer. The wiring can be tapped and it should work. Again I am not an expert on this (I would never claim that) but it SHOULD work. http://www.bluespot.co.uk/vw.asp is for the controls on the wheel.
http://www.12v.org/mods/index.php?include=stereo shows the areas to what hooks up where on the Blaus.
Please let me know if this helps, if it doesnt I can look into it further. My 99 1/2 doesnt have the on dash or steering wheel controls so it was straight foward. The 3000 had the SW controls and I changed it over to work.
Todd

first link shows that you can use the steering wheel controls on the VW, 2nd link shows that the Blaupunkt uses the same connectors as a stock Audi headunit so you dont have to buy and deal with a harness. But where does it show that you still retain the display?

OverSpun
11-28-2004, 04:34 PM
well there goes my system idea for the new car... blah, i'd rather keep function of my display than get a headunit. i look at the center display a lot.

OnE.8T
11-28-2004, 04:44 PM
dang i didn't know the display wouldn't work either. one problem just leads to another.

Bigblk4
11-28-2004, 04:55 PM
Well to the dash is an RDS signal, and an FM interface should allow the information to be put up on the dash display. I have searched and cannot find one that works so you are correct. I was thinking something like an I-pod controler might work but that should only allow steering wheel control, and not work with the dash. I will look into this further and if I find anything I will post up. The other option is a piggyback slave that will allow you to keep the OEM headunit and tie in a replacement head unit. The replacement can then be mounted in the glovebox but I am not sure if this is the route you would want to go (could lead to interferrence errors with the OEM headunit) I know there is a modulator that allows other items such as boost to be shown up on the display i wonder if it could be piggybacked into a replacement HU???????
Todd

BoostTed
11-28-2004, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by Bigblk4
Well to the dash is an RDS signal, and an FM interface should allow the information to be put up on the dash display. I have searched and cannot find one that works so you are correct. I was thinking something like an I-pod controler might work but that should only allow steering wheel control, and not work with the dash. I will look into this further and if I find anything I will post up. The other option is a piggyback slave that will allow you to keep the OEM headunit and tie in a replacement head unit. The replacement can then be mounted in the glovebox but I am not sure if this is the route you would want to go (could lead to interferrence errors with the OEM headunit) I know there is a modulator that allows other items such as boost to be shown up on the display i wonder if it could be piggybacked into a replacement HU???????
Todd

there were two modulator that allowed boost to be shown on the display. I cant remember the name of the other one but I know that Trip-Comp never finished developement.

OnE.8T
11-29-2004, 01:37 AM
that would be cool to display the boost in the center display. i've never seen this. anyone got any more info on it?

98a4
11-29-2004, 05:15 AM
Bottom line is when you put an aftermarket deck in and power your stock speakers off of it, It will sound like crap. Buy a 4channel amp and the doors with that that. Leave the stock unit power the rear deck so they will have enough power to sound, OK....

My setup is an Eclipse 12" Ti w/ a clarion 845 deck, I removed the rear deck speakers and have soundstream componets in all four doors. I have a 1000.4 amp powering the door speakers running 80w RMS @ 4ohm to each of the 4" speakers and a 2000DX amp powering the sub. Rear deck speakers are removed to port the sub into the cabbin.

If you dont use the build in amp in the deck SQ levels get much better.

4ingDrive
11-29-2004, 05:18 AM
Use the amp to power the front door speakers not the rears. Why would you want a rear staged car? If you're going to use deck power on anything use it on the rears for some fill.

fanuvbrak
11-29-2004, 10:48 AM
if it's NOT a Bose system, there's an adaptor to keep your OEM rear speakers. It's a PAC-OEM2 and it's $30. but because of this adaptor, you can't use the VW wiring harness and all your wires have to be crimped or soldered. it's not a huge deal, maybe three hours. i have a wiring list on here somewhere, search for it.

OnE.8T
11-29-2004, 02:13 PM
wow i didn't know it was this hard just to install some ice.

4ingDrive
11-29-2004, 02:29 PM
It's not hard. I've never needed an adaptor for a Bose or a non-Bose system. You just need a line level out of the deck for the amp.

Bigblk4
11-29-2004, 07:36 PM
Here is the center boost read out I was mentioning
http://img92.exs.cx/img92/2064/efuboost.jpg

OnE.8T
11-30-2004, 01:37 AM
why is it negative? and how do i make mine do that? ohh one more question, my center display is kinda fading. would i be able to get one from another cluster and just swap it?

buck
11-30-2004, 05:39 AM
Originally posted by OnE.8T
why is it negative? and how do i make mine do that? ohh one more question, my center display is kinda fading. would i be able to get one from another cluster and just swap it?

it's probably negative because the intake manifold is under vacuum.

Bigblk4 - that is exactly how I wanted to view boost in my car, but I'm sure that my $40 VDO was a much more cost effective solution.... but I like yours better!

kris_tdi
11-30-2004, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by OnE.8T
why is it negative? and how do i make mine do that? ohh one more question, my center display is kinda fading. would i be able to get one from another cluster and just swap it?

common fault the display fading when it warms up, i believe a replacement is stupid money, like £500 from audi, maybe more.
i would bother with a second hand one cos chances are its probably the same.

OnE.8T
11-30-2004, 03:17 PM
dang, so basically i'm stuck with the center display fading?

Pureaudi
12-06-2004, 08:05 PM
what about 97's without the center display. can i put a headunit in without worrying about anything?

4ingDrive
12-06-2004, 08:45 PM
No problems.

Pureaudi
12-06-2004, 09:08 PM
what about replacing speakers, anything i need to know before i do this?

4ingDrive
12-07-2004, 06:14 AM
No, it should be pretty straight forward as long as you're already familiar with speakers and components.