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Euro-Tuner
02-25-2009, 09:49 PM
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i199/euro-tuner/untitled.jpg

in this diagram, can someone please explain why I would hook anything up to the top nipple on the WG if its just venting to the atmosphere. If I am using an N-75 to control my boost, how should I run the vac lines so they work properly with this waste gate?

TIA

(and please no "get rid of the N-75" comments, Minhea at MRC tuning uses them so I use them)

Euro-Tuner
02-25-2009, 09:55 PM
should I hook up my N75 the way its shown but not vent the top nipple, just go directly to the N75, also I'll cap off the third N75 tube, I have no TIP so its just a vac leak.

20vpower
02-25-2009, 10:14 PM
yes i am also curious... ill be running my n75 with external wastegate for 034 tuning

prodrive
02-26-2009, 04:36 AM
You will connect the N75 as shown, one side goes to wastegates top ,otherside goes to charge air (maifold) and the N75's midde nipple goes to atmosphare or to the TIP. So you don't need another vent on the pipe

bassed
02-26-2009, 05:03 AM
Just as Prodrive said, but seriosuly on a setup like yours why not run and EBC and get rid of the n-75? I don't give a flick if who from who uses them. You're the only one in the states running this Belgian tune, boost control is the issue here not your tune.

The other thing you need to ask yourself is why run a N75 if it's a commonly ailing element in a stock car, yet alone a BAT. I know you did not have the car in stock form for long, but for those of us who had been making payments to AoA and saw N75's being replaced upwards of 3-5 times under warranty...why would you put faith in it with as mch as you hve invested, I'd think you would want to be in control of boost more.

mike-2ptzero
02-26-2009, 08:02 AM
NO. When just using a N75 valve or a MBC you only hook up the side nipple of the external wg because that is the nipple that opens the valve. When the N75 valve or MBC let the pressure thru it is done to open the valve. If you hook it to the top of the WG that will force the wg closed.

The top nipple on the Tial wg is only used for a EBC, because a EBC is designed to let all the pressure thru it which is then feed to the top nipple of the WG along with all the pressure being feed to the side nipple. When the boost level gets close to the set boost the EBC then starts decreasing the amount of pressure being sent to the top of the WG which then allows it to open.



So basically you want to use the N75 valve in the same way you do with the internal wg on a stock K03, the line that went to the top of the internal wg actuator goes to the side nipple of the Tial external wg housing.

Internal wg - pressure sent to top nipple to push wg open
external wg - pressure sent to top nipple to push wg up/open.

EBC external wg - Y line to feed both the side nipple and top nipple ran thru the EBC motor


This is why the Diagram you posted says that the top nipple of the WG should be left vented to atmospher or add air for adjustable boost control.

Now you could try hooking up vent nipple on the N75 valve to the top of the WG, this would send pressure to the top of the WG nipple till the ecu tells the N75 valve to open to control boost. When the N75 opens it then sends most of the pressure thru to the side nipple of the External wg housing forcing the diaphram up allowing the valve to slide up opening the wg.

http://www.scionlife.com/tech/images/zpi_turbo_tc/Wastegate.gif

Blake260
02-26-2009, 08:48 AM
Just as Prodrive said, but seriosuly on a setup like yours why not run and EBC and get rid of the n-75? I don't give a flick if who from who uses them. You're the only one in the states running this Belgian tune, boost control is the issue here not your tune.

The other thing you need to ask yourself is why run a N75 if it's a commonly ailing element in a stock car, yet alone a BAT. I know you did not have the car in stock form for long, but for those of us who had been making payments to AoA and saw N75's being replaced upwards of 3-5 times under warranty...why would you put faith in it with as mch as you hve invested, I'd think you would want to be in control of boost more.


If your tuner wants you to do something to make your car run better, you wouldn't do it?

I dont have my car tuned by mineah, but If I would if I could. his tunes have proven to be the most aggressive for the S4 (s2the4's car made 465 on ko4's at waterfest), and he has made some very fast A4's accross the pond.

As far as I know, MRC tunes use the absolute most of the software already there (i.e. maf, N75). truthfully jon should be running a MAF. but we all know that A4's run fine tuned by the MAP. Its just what the tuner wants to make the most out of the car.

mike-2ptzero
02-26-2009, 09:24 AM
If your tuner wants you to do something to make your car run better, you wouldn't do it?

I dont have my car tuned by mineah, but If I would if I could. his tunes have proven to be the most aggressive for the S4 (s2the4's car made 465 on ko4's at waterfest), and he has made some very fast A4's accross the pond.

As far as I know, MRC tunes use the absolute most of the software already there (i.e. maf, N75). truthfully jon should be running a MAF. but we all know that A4's run fine tuned by the MAP. Its just what the tuner wants to make the most out of the car.

Problem is that the N75 is very slow and this means you either get boost spikes or the tuner has to soften the onset of boost which means less tq,l ess hp and a much weaker power band. The N75 will never be able to allow boost to hit sharp and then just hold that boost level.

Basically a EBC is a N75 wth its own computer that only has 1 job.

here are a few dyno pulls showing the difference in boost onset between a N75, MBC and EBC.


Built B6 running N75
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff52/crazyass713/Dads3rddaydyno.jpg


Same B6 running MBC
http://www.034motorsport.com/gallery/d/20703-2/JacobB6Final93Tune.jpg

My B5 running EBC
http://www.centralvalleyspeed.com/photogallery/albums/userpics/10093/MikeHood630whp.jpg

Euro-Tuner
02-26-2009, 09:27 AM
NO. When just using a N75 valve or a MBC you only hook up the side nipple of the external wg because that is the nipple that opens the valve. When the N75 valve or MBC let the pressure thru it is done to open the valve. If you hook it to the top of the WG that will force the wg closed.

The top nipple on the Tial wg is only used for a EBC, because a EBC is designed to let all the pressure thru it which is then feed to the top nipple of the WG along with all the pressure being feed to the side nipple. When the boost level gets close to the set boost the EBC then starts decreasing the amount of pressure being sent to the top of the WG which then allows it to open.



So basically you want to use the N75 valve in the same way you do with the internal wg on a stock K03, the line that went to the top of the internal wg actuator goes to the side nipple of the Tial external wg housing.

Internal wg - pressure sent to top nipple to push wg open
external wg - pressure sent to top nipple to push wg up/open.

EBC external wg - Y line to feed both the side nipple and top nipple ran thru the EBC motor


This is why the Diagram you posted says that the top nipple of the WG should be left vented to atmospher or add air for adjustable boost control.

Now you could try hooking up vent nipple on the N75 valve to the top of the WG, this would send pressure to the top of the WG nipple till the ecu tells the N75 valve to open to control boost. When the N75 opens it then sends most of the pressure thru to the side nipple of the External wg housing forcing the diaphram up allowing the valve to slide up opening the wg.


wow, no more Tech-Talk section.

so Mike, the way I understand it is this:

if I were to hook up the N75 the way your talking, the only thing holding the WG shut until the N75 tells it to open is the spring, but even the strongest spring rating in a Tial V44 WG is rated for 22 psi.

Euro-Tuner
02-26-2009, 09:43 AM
I feel like I should hook up the N75 like this:
-Bottom to Compressor housing
-passive side (during offset) to the top of the WG to assist spring shut
-blocked side (during offset) to the side of the WG to assist in opening when at peak boost.

correct?...we'll see, I'll give it a try when I get out of class

mike-2ptzero
02-26-2009, 09:55 AM
wow, no more Tech-Talk section.

so Mike, the way I understand it is this:

if I were to hook up the N75 the way your talking, the only thing holding the WG shut until the N75 tells it to open is the spring, but even the strongest spring rating in a Tial V44 WG is rated for 22 psi.

You are confusing boost pressure and exhaust pressure.

If exhaust pressure was a problem running it that way the K03 wouldn't be able to hit more then 5psi seeing that is what the spring pressure is rated at.


BTW, my friend runs his MBC just the way I stated and he has ran it at 32psi with a Tial 38mm.



I feel like I should hook up the N75 like this:
-Bottom to Compressor housing
-passive side (during offset) to the top of the WG to assist spring shut
-blocked side (during offset) to the side of the WG to assist in opening when at peak boost.

correct?...we'll see, I'll give it a try when I get out of class

Yes you can try it that way which is what I stated at the end of my first reply. The problem is that you might find yourself hitting more boost then what the ecu is tuned for seeing that the N75 will still be leaking pressure to the top of the wg which is then adding pressure to the spring pressure. This could also increase "boost spike".

bassed
02-26-2009, 10:11 AM
If your tuner wants you to do something to make your car run better, you wouldn't do it?

I dont have my car tuned by mineah, but If I would if I could. his tunes have proven to be the most aggressive for the S4 (s2the4's car made 465 on ko4's at waterfest), and he has made some very fast A4's accross the pond.

As far as I know, MRC tunes use the absolute most of the software already there (i.e. maf, N75). truthfully jon should be running a MAF. but we all know that A4's run fine tuned by the MAP. Its just what the tuner wants to make the most out of the car.

1) I live in the US, so I wouldn't use a tune for a Eurospec based car (yes some things are different) and I most certainly wouldn't use a tuner that requires me to adjust my schedule with by 6hrs just to get in touch with over the phone with and cost me money to call. I like service, personal contact and being able to text or call their cell when needed? Yes I'm in like that with my peeps (all of them).

2) I would not tune BAT setups unless custom and I'm on rollers and then we check it all out on the street as well.

3)N75's suck, suck, suck. My EBC is a beeeeeelion times more reliable, controlable and what it seems the American tuners prefer to use. I hit desired boost and stay there all the way with my EBC, which is how it should be. Who wants spikes?

I'm very logical and have had 0 issues that were not resolved within a 12hr window for a plethora of reasons, some mentioned and some not.

Euro-Tuner
02-26-2009, 01:34 PM
1) I live in the US, so I wouldn't use a tune for a Eurospec based car (yes some things are different) and I most certainly wouldn't use a tuner that requires me to adjust my schedule with by 6hrs just to get in touch with over the phone with and cost me money to call. I like service, personal contact and being able to text or call their cell when needed? Yes I'm in like that with my peeps (all of them).

2) I would not tune BAT setups unless custom and I'm on rollers and then we check it all out on the street as well.

3)N75's suck, suck, suck. My EBC is a beeeeeelion times more reliable, controlable and what it seems the American tuners prefer to use. I hit desired boost and stay there all the way with my EBC, which is how it should be. Who wants spikes?

I'm very logical and have had 0 issues that were not resolved within a 12hr window for a plethora of reasons, some mentioned and some not.

that all makes perfect sense, but
1. MRC is more than capable of tuning american spec vehicles and understanding all the differences in the systems, he is in the US often and dyno tunes cars when he is here, so he's not just throwing numbers into ECU's he does do them in person as well. And he is online constantly so it is very easy to get in touch with him when something is needed (I don't think he sleeps)

2. The only tunes he does that aren't in person are base tunes, like mine, but that doesn't mean its not safe, The guys at East Coast European and I ran logs after logs and had direct communication with him and he tweaked everything as best he could for a base tune to get the car running and broken in. His real tunes are done in person on a dyno (though I think KTR in Mass closed so I'm not sure where he plans in tuning now)

3. I agree, but as stated above, I'm doing what my tuner is telling me to, but I do plan on asking him if he is comfortable using and EBC per my preference.

Euro-Tuner
02-26-2009, 01:36 PM
You are confusing boost pressure and exhaust pressure.


ok, that makes perfect sense. I guess its just a coincidence that Im am running the 13 psi spring and it opens at 12-13 lbs. I'll hook up the N75 like I previously stated when I get a third barb fitting from forced performance, unless someone has one I can buy and get quickly?

mike-2ptzero
02-26-2009, 03:21 PM
ok, that makes perfect sense. I guess its just a coincidence that Im am running the 13 psi spring and it opens at 12-13 lbs. I'll hook up the N75 like I previously stated when I get a third barb fitting from forced performance, unless someone has one I can buy and get quickly?

Well I am going to guess you are running the pressure source right to the side of the wg which is why its opening at the boost level that the spring is rated for?

What type of barb fitting you looking for?

Euro-Tuner
02-26-2009, 05:19 PM
actually its getting sent to me right now but it was the 10mm air fitting.