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View Full Version : Giac k03 tune with AE review



NoTec
02-18-2009, 08:16 AM
What can I say, Nick over at Autobahn Exotics made the transaction and experience quick and seamless. Shipped my AEB ecu out last week Tuesday and got it back in 3 days. The entire transaction was less than $350. As a reference, North Bay imports here in CT, an authorized Giac dealer, was charging $395 for the tune and $85 for installation. Why this price, even after it was mentioned that Giac updated the msrp to $300 on their website, I have no fuggen idea. So screw em, I got several methods of transportation. No sense in wasting $130 for the same fuggen product.
Thanks Nick!!![up]

The tune..... hmm.. I gotta say that if all you want is a slightly sportier engine response, the ~$300 is a great deal. But for me, the car went from gosh-awful dog slow to just...... well slow. I've driven other vehicles with 200hp (02 Accord V6, 00 BMW 328, new turbo Mini Cooper S, etc....) and this car feels slower than all of them. I have upgraded the diverter valve to the 710n and I have an ECS tuning n75 race valve installed. Gonna install the VMR 2.5" cat-look test-pipe this week so I hope that helps. Took the Evo out for a spin this weekend because the roads were pretty clear and I'm just shocked at how much sooner and how much more violently the boost comes on than the tiny little k03 equipped A4. Maybe I was expecting too much from this "Baby @ss turbo." I have other gripes that'll wait to post until I install the test pipe and filter.
End review or rant!!! [:p]

turbo kraut
02-18-2009, 08:40 AM
it shouldn't slow down, do you have a boost guage?

maybe you have a vac leak....... i know that i was without programming for a while, and my car felt slower without my programming that with(apr 93 oct) but not bad...... could be you are used to beastly boosted cars

D's Avant
02-18-2009, 08:54 AM
It can take a day or two for your car to adapt to the new chip as well. Comparing your 8-10 year old K03 B5 to a lighter and +100 hp Evo is silly. Sounds like you may have a boost leak, what boost are you seeing? (should be around 16-18 psi)

Your car should be just as fast if not faster than the Mini, 328 and the Accord. (Zero to sixty at mid to low six seconds with your set up if manual)

NoTec
02-18-2009, 09:29 AM
The boost gauge is sitting in my garage. I'll get it in there when I install the filter and test-pipe. I've been driving the car for a few days now and it did get a little quicker since initially re-installing the ecu.

Just to clarify. It did not slow down after the tune. It's easily quicker than stock with a good "tug" @4K rpm to 6K rpm. I just assumed this "baby @ss turbo" would have a good surge or response at 2-2.5k rpm all the way up to 6K rpm. Where as I could hear the Mini S spooling just off idle and be rewarded with a fabulous response though the entire rev range, this just isn't the case with the A4. That Mini was the most fun "stock" fwd car I've ever driven. Don't know wtf is going on right now but I'll get to the bottom of it.

Let's be realistic, I wasn't expecting neck snapping performance from this car or anything even close to the Evo. The A4 currently has less than half the hp. I was merely making a comparison between spool and response. However, I was expecting atleast similar performance to the 200 hp cars listed above.

Rhinop21
02-18-2009, 09:31 AM
Our cars are just slow.

NoTec
02-18-2009, 09:36 AM
Our cars are just slow.
LMFAO!! As of right now, it seems that way dude.

mike-2ptzero
02-18-2009, 09:36 AM
Its not the amount of hp the engine is making, it is the amount of hp you are making at the wheels that counts. So unless your car is FWD your car is going to feel slower because it makes less power to the wheels. Also if you are AEB you aren't exactly making 200chp either seeing that the ndbw tunes are closer to 190-195hp. So if you are quattro that means your making a big 150whp and those other 200hp cars are making 170-180 hp.


Hard to compare the little K03 to NA cars that will have a much flatter tq band then the K03 which peaks really low and then falls like brick.

NoTec
02-18-2009, 09:40 AM
Its not the amount of hp the engine is making, it is the amount of hp you are making at the wheels that counts. So unless your car is FWD your car is going to feel slower because it makes less power to the wheels. Also if you are AEB you aren't exactly making 200chp either seeing that the ndbw tunes are closer to 190-195hp. So if you are quattro that means your making a big 150whp and those other 200hp cars are making 170-180 hp.

Thanks Mike. As I said above, maybe I was expecting too much. It is a 1.8tqm. Anyhow, once I'm done installing the rest of the parts I have laying around, if it's still slow, then it'll have to remain slow.

maxspeed
02-18-2009, 10:42 AM
comparing an Evo to an A4 is like, well, Comparing a sports car to a family sedan.

turbo kraut
02-18-2009, 07:17 PM
The boost gauge is sitting in my garage.
get it in the car..... don't wait

nova_ss672001
02-18-2009, 07:42 PM
yea dude get that boost gauge in there and tell us your vac and boost readings,
i got the Speedtuning software in my 01' and it feels a lot better, imo faster than the mini s and accord, since i have spanked one of each....

but yea you probably were expecting too much outta the GIAC tune, the TP and exhaust should help a lil bit with the throttle response and sound cool but thats bout it...

audiFUEGO
02-18-2009, 07:42 PM
What year and how many miles?

You have to remember that your engine's vac system may not be in perfect condition..

I remember when I got chipped after installing my K04... I paid the guy 800 to do the reflash and I drove home making hardly any boost. Thats when the rollercoaster ride began as I replaced almost every hose/gasket and had to rethink my intake setup to get her running perfectly.

8 months later she was purring like a baby kitten and making 20psi and I've had no problems since (knock on wood).

Point is... you may have to get your hands dirty a bit.

NoTec
02-18-2009, 09:03 PM
yea dude get that boost gauge in there and tell us your vac and boost readings,
i got the Speedtuning software in my 01' and it feels a lot better, imo faster than the mini s and accord, since i have spanked one of each....

but yea you probably were expecting too much outta the GIAC tune, the TP and exhaust should help a lil bit with the throttle response and sound cool but thats bout it...
I honestly think I was just expecting too much. It pulls ok when the car is fully warmed. Feels like it pulls better the hotter the car gets. I wonder if it has anything to do with the thermostat. That along with the timing belt and water pump is on my list for next month. I know for a fact the thermostat needs to be changed.
Also, I'm only installing a test-pipe as this is my winter daily driver for now. No exhaust for me. Can't stand the noise.



What year and how many miles?

You have to remember that your engine's vac system may not be in perfect condition..

I remember when I got chipped after installing my K04... I paid the guy 800 to do the reflash and I drove home making hardly any boost. Thats when the rollercoaster ride began as I replaced almost every hose/gasket and had to rethink my intake setup to get her running perfectly.

8 months later she was purring like a baby kitten and making 20psi and I've had no problems since (knock on wood).

Point is... you may have to get your hands dirty a bit.
'97 and 135k. I never get my hands dirty. I always wear gloves. [>_<] I have my [wrench] cut out for me this week.

turbo kraut
02-19-2009, 04:55 AM
I honestly think I was just expecting too much. It pulls ok when the car is fully warmed. Feels like it pulls better the hotter the car gets. I wonder if it has anything to do with the thermostat. That along with the timing belt and water pump is on my list for next month. I know for a fact the thermostat needs to be changed.
Also, I'm only installing a test-pipe as this is my winter daily driver for now. No exhaust for me. Can't stand the noise.


that right there makes me think something is cracked and reseals itself once warm


and you could just take out your resenator to get more flow and not too much noise

NoTec
02-19-2009, 08:03 AM
that right there makes me think something is cracked and reseals itself once warm


and you could just take out your resenator to get more flow and not too much noise

I wondered about the thermostat because I know some cars run a lot richer than normal when they are not up to the ideal operating temps. So I assumed the car wasn't burning at the correct/target a/f ratio and that could be one reason. Who knows, I'm sure it's something simple.

A4 Dream
02-19-2009, 10:55 AM
go k04!

turbo kraut
02-19-2009, 03:39 PM
go k04!


that is fun and all, but for a few hundred more he might as well get a real turbo


but he stated this is his winter beater of sorts

NoTec
02-19-2009, 05:03 PM
Not at all interested in upgrading the turbo. If I need more than the baby K03 is capable of, I'll ditch this car later in the year for a R32 or B6 S4.

PreLunatic
02-19-2009, 05:37 PM
Not at all interested in upgrading the turbo. If I need more than the baby K03 is capable of, I'll ditch this car later in the year for a R32 or B6 S4.

i lol'd, how is the r32 such a big step over the k03? theres a good number of members that run 14.6+ 1/4 all day. i have a track car that i take out in the summer and go up to wisconsin every third weekend in the summer. I have seen a good handfull of r32 run there and get a whopping 14.8+ unless the shits s/ced. unless your talking about a skyline r32, which I doubt it, the VW r32 aint no different then your chipped k03. just my .02. [:D]

oh and just for fun, VW r32 http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=r32+1%2F4&aq=f

skyline r32 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2B_7SRIlMo

turbo kraut
02-19-2009, 06:35 PM
if i was to own an r32 it would be the previous gen where they actually offered a manual tranny

i know dsg is supposed to be the shit, but i like shifting myself


i had a buddy that but nitro on his r and w/100 shot he said it was too slow....... but he is a little mental....... got a evo 8 and did the nos and blew that shit up


if the k03 isn't enough fun, just do a minimul upgrade(not k04) and i think you will be more than happy


i am planning on going 2871 and talked to someone that dyno'ed it he said he was at 363 awhp and 375 awlbtq

NoTec
02-19-2009, 09:24 PM
i lol'd, how is the r32 such a big step over the k03? theres a good number of members that run 14.6+ 1/4 all day. i have a track car that i take out in the summer and go up to wisconsin every third weekend in the summer. I have seen a good handfull of r32 run there and get a whopping 14.8+ unless the shits s/ced. unless your talking about a skyline r32, which I doubt it, the VW r32 aint no different then your chipped k03. just my .02. [:D]

oh and just for fun, VW r32 http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=r32+1%2F4&aq=f

skyline r32 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2B_7SRIlMo
There is more to driving enjoyment than power. I love VWs Audis and Porsches equally. I was referring to the 1st gen R32 and have driven them before. They're a blast. I like em better than the b5 S4. Almost as much as the B6 S4. My life is not about the quarter mile. Thanks for the links and the info.



if i was to own an r32 it would be the previous gen where they actually offered a manual tranny.
i know dsg is supposed to be the shit, but i like shifting myself.
i had a buddy that but nitro on his r and w/100 shot he said it was too slow....... but he is a little mental....... got a evo 8 and did the nos and blew that shit up.
if the k03 isn't enough fun, just do a minimul upgrade(not k04) and i think you will be more than happy.
i am planning on going 2871 and talked to someone that dyno'ed it he said he was at 363 awhp and 375 awlbtq
Yes, I was referring to the previous gen r32. The current ones I like but no manual tranny and excessive weight is a [down][down] in my book. I would agree with you that your friend is mental. Race cars break. I wish more people would realize that before they raced their cars.
I took the day off tomorrow and will get the rest of my parts installed. I'll see if I can make a video clip of my pathetic 3rd gear pull. [>_<] Should be fun.

PreLunatic
02-19-2009, 10:09 PM
There is more to driving enjoyment than power. I love VWs Audis and Porsches equally. I was referring to the 1st gen R32 and have driven them before. They're a blast. I like em better than the b5 S4. Almost as much as the B6 S4. My life is not about the quarter mile. Thanks for the links and the info.



Yes, I was referring to the previous gen r32. The current ones I like but no manual tranny and excessive weight is a [down][down] in my book. I would agree with you that your friend is mental. Race cars break. I wish more people would realize that before they raced their cars.
I took the day off tomorrow and will get the rest of my parts installed. I'll see if I can make a video clip of my pathetic 3rd gear pull. [>_<] Should be fun.

Well if your life is not about power then why are you chipping the a4 and complaining that its slow. you confuse me. [confused]

NoTec
02-20-2009, 05:59 AM
Well if your life is not about power then why are you chipping the a4 and complaining that its slow. you confuse me. [confused]

If you have to ask that question, then I can't help you.

turbo kraut
02-20-2009, 06:02 AM
Well if your life is not about power then why are you chipping the a4 and complaining that its slow. you confuse me. [confused]

+1



i have driven some "fast" cars, and not that ours are beasts by any means, but you say that it feels slower than a honda accord v6

i have a clutch on the way out and turbo that is in the process of dieing

and i had a guy in an auto v6(08 i think)accord last night race me from a roll..


and i never got past 4th when i shut it down, but i was hitting the top of 4th when he finally caught up....


just our cars are not fast but with the right mods they aren't slow anymore

NoTec
02-20-2009, 06:20 AM
+1
i have driven some "fast" cars, and not that ours are beasts by any means, but you say that it feels slower than a honda accord v6.
i have a clutch on the way out and turbo that is in the process of dieing.
and i had a guy in an auto v6(08 i think)accord last night race me from a roll..
and i never got past 4th when i shut it down, but i was hitting the top of 4th when he finally caught up....
just our cars are not fast but with the right mods they aren't slow anymore

I'm curious. Have you done anything more to your car power wise since filming the vid in your sig? Because my A4 seems as quick or quicker than yours. I stress the word seems because I haven't launched the car (and won't be doing so ever) and I haven't timed it. If you haven't, I highly doubt you fairly raced a 268 hp v6 accord and pulled him till 4th when he crept back.

PreLunatic
02-20-2009, 10:25 AM
I'm curious. Have you done anything more to your car power wise since filming the vid in your sig? Because my A4 seems as quick or quicker than yours. I stress the word seems because I haven't launched the car (and won't be doing so ever) and I haven't timed it. If you haven't, I highly doubt you fairly raced a 268 hp v6 accord and pulled him till 4th when he crept back.

true that, the 08 v6 accords are quick. i had an 01 accord but it got totaled, now that bish was slow, for a v6 i could barely hang with any 4cyl cuz the v6 accord tranny blows dick but thats another story. But you never know, the guy in the said 08 accord could just suck at driving, shitt when i had my 92 tercel wit 3 speed auto i raced an sti from a red light for a good laugh and he stalled [drive] so that mean i win? [race] [:D]

turbo kraut
02-20-2009, 07:14 PM
01 A4 1.8tqms: apr 93 oct, m3 spoiler, s4 wheels, rs4 grille,S4 bumper, tinted tails/sidemarkers, apr tip, A8 BBK W/ TT carriers, stainless steel brake lines, race valve, stratosphere dv, fmic, euro plate, euro s4 healights, tp/2.5 inch exhaust(resonator less) into magnaflow muffler, swiss box mod w/K&N drop in filter

that is what i have now........ i just had programing and may, just maybe a little exhaust...... car was fairly stock then

i would do another one now, but my clutch is on the way out

i also think he was trying to race me in "manual mode"

cause everytime he seemed to catch up, he hit what sounded like a rev limiter........ i am 32 and have been driving probably as long as this kid has been alive

turbo kraut
02-20-2009, 07:16 PM
I'm curious. Have you done anything more to your car power wise since filming the vid in your sig? Because my A4 seems as quick or quicker than yours. I stress the word seems because I haven't launched the car (and won't be doing so ever) and I haven't timed it. If you haven't, I highly doubt you fairly raced a 268 hp v6 accord and pulled him till 4th when he crept back.

268 crank hp that is..... i am probably close to the 268 crank right now....... granted i am awd and have more loss than he does...... i would have to say that my driving skills and car v his car are pretty equal

mike-2ptzero
02-20-2009, 09:28 PM
268 crank hp that is..... i am probably close to the 268 crank right now....... granted i am awd and have more loss than he does...... i would have to say that my driving skills and car v his car are pretty equal

268chp K03 APR 93 tune? LOL

268chp = 209awhp. That 209 is about what K03's make at the crank. APR claims their 2001 software at 214hp/247tq at the crank.


268whp is beyond what the K03 can make, maybe even beyond the range of a K04-15 pushed to its limits like the J31 tune does.

black99.5a4
02-20-2009, 09:41 PM
268chp K03 APR 93 tune? LOL

268chp = 209awhp. That 209 is about what K03's make at the crank. APR claims their 2001 software at 214hp/247tq at the crank.

i was thinking the same thing.

turbo kraut
02-21-2009, 04:47 AM
268chp K03 APR 93 tune? LOL

268chp = 209awhp. That 209 is about what K03's make at the crank. APR claims their 2001 software at 214hp/247tq at the crank.


268whp is beyond what the K03 can make, maybe even beyond the range of a K04-15 pushed to its limits like the J31 tune does.
i was just going off the butt dyno man......... i know that the russian and i had the same setup and his car put out (iirc) 170 awhp on the dyno in his area.......


don't shoot the messenger cause my dyno is off some.......lol

mike-2ptzero
02-21-2009, 07:36 AM
i was just going off the butt dyno man......... i know that the russian and i had the same setup and his car put out (iirc) 170 awhp on the dyno in his area.......


don't shoot the messenger cause my dyno is off some.......lol

Time to get your butt dyno calibrated.[;)]


170whp = 218chp seeing that the quattro has a driveline loss of 22%. So your butt is off by 50chp.[>_<]

NoTec
02-21-2009, 10:09 AM
Time to get your butt dyno calibrated.[;)]


170whp = 218chp seeing that the quattro has a driveline loss of 22%. So your butt is off by 50chp.[>_<]

I'd say so!

Some pics from yesterdays install session. The installation of the "cat' was easier than I thought it would be. I sprayed the exhaust bolts down liberally with penetrant early. Had no problems at all. Driving improvements after the install were apparent. The car definitely feels and sounds more sporty. I'm getting a bit of surging @ low rpms and high throttle inputs in the 3rd-5th gear. I'm guessing it's from the ECS n75 race valve. I'll remove it next week and reinstall the stock unit. Overall, the car feels peppy. As a daily driver, I'm satisfied with it. I'm going to flog around a newer R32 later for a direct comparison. Haven't driven one of those yet and a buddy tells me they have a used one in stock.

Stock cat on top and VMR unit on the bottom.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e190/Notecc/A4/PICT0168.jpg

Pretty hollow in there.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e190/Notecc/A4/PICT0170.jpg

Bunch of missing parts. I swear the K03 has got to be the most pathetic looking turbo I've ever seen.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e190/Notecc/A4/PICT0171.jpg

All the exhaust work complete.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e190/Notecc/A4/PICT0172.jpg

Finished replacing everything. AEM dryflow filter hiding in there somewhere.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e190/Notecc/A4/PICT0175-1.jpg

D's Avant
02-21-2009, 03:42 PM
I would leave the Race N75 in for a least a week. Your car may just be adjusting to the whole no "Cat" thing. Have you gotten a "CEL" yet???

NoTec
02-21-2009, 08:06 PM
I would leave the Race N75 in for a least a week. Your car may just be adjusting to the whole no "Cat" thing. Have you gotten a "CEL" yet???

Nope, I have the mechanical "CEL" fix. You can see it in pic #2 above. I've also been pretty liberal with my right foot. This is the same "CEL" fix I've been running in the Evo for 22K miles with no cel.

turbo kraut
02-22-2009, 12:21 PM
Time to get your butt dyno calibrated.[;)]


170whp = 218chp seeing that the quattro has a driveline loss of 22%. So your butt is off by 50chp.[>_<]
that might hurt..... lol


like i said i think he was trying to manually shift an auto cause he was blurping it at redline