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View Full Version : Xenon heads, give me a little advice on picking the right bulb



DarkkstaR
10-13-2004, 08:36 AM
The ricer inside of me is looking for some bulbs that'll give the purple look. No one else has purple, just blue and white around here. I think it would be cool to get a deep purple going. Since I will be using halogen 99.5 headlights would it be possible? What K bulbs do you guys have if they give off a purple? What about if they're just deep blue? What do 8k look like on your setup?

Let me know, TIA

EVIL-AUDI
10-13-2004, 08:42 AM
I have 8500K in my heads and 6K in my fogs and I can tell you even the 8500K still look very much blue and not purple. Anything higher might get you there, but isn't worth the loss of lumens on the road.

A4Rob
10-13-2004, 08:48 AM
Ive got some purple bulbs. They actually look xenon

EVIL-AUDI
10-13-2004, 08:50 AM
Are we talking real Xenon, or xenon looking H7's here? I only use real HID's in my headlights and foglights.

A4Rob
10-13-2004, 08:55 AM
Fake rice H7's. hehe

DarkkstaR
10-13-2004, 09:05 AM
I want real HIV....er HIDs :)

A4Rob
10-13-2004, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by DarkkstaR
I want real HIV....er HIDs :)

eBay has some good HID kits. my friend just got a 12000 k kit for like $180. looks great

DarkkstaR
10-13-2004, 09:09 AM
yeah I'm just worried about the lack of lumens...

EVIL-AUDI
10-13-2004, 10:00 AM
That will always be a setback with those types of bulbs.

skene
10-13-2004, 10:43 AM
I have 8500k and they are bluish... and we installed a 7000k kit in the PES Excusion which ended up being a purplish hue... both kits are 3200 lumens which is more than enough to light up the road.
You should look for any kit with a high lumen rating as it will differ from kit to kit.
ie. the OEM Audi HIDs run at 2400 lumen.

DarkkstaR
10-13-2004, 12:59 PM
Well I have OEM ballasts. I just need bulbs now.

Hmmm

Daft
10-13-2004, 01:36 PM
Go with a standard Philips D2S bulb (part number 85122). They are still the brightest bulb on the road.

Any bulb that is non-philips and is claimed to be rated for 6000k+ is just a blue tinted 4300K bulb that has been filled with extra xenon gas to create more color shift.

If you want the highest lumen and color temp combo, get a set of the Philips color match bulbs from ProtocolD. They are rated for 5000K but, they still provide as much light as the OEM D2S bulbs.

DarkkstaR
10-13-2004, 03:28 PM
Daft I know you know your shit, but will that give the effect I am looking for or is this more projector based then color temp?

EVIL-AUDI
10-13-2004, 06:31 PM
The color change you want will have some to do with the bulb, but ultimately, the projectors are what give you the color shifting effect.

DarkkstaR
10-13-2004, 07:02 PM
I got ya. So I should probably get the HID housings then? TY :)

ProtoColD
10-13-2004, 07:21 PM
Go with the 5000K Philips CM bulb.

DarkkstaR
10-13-2004, 07:33 PM
I am gonna get the 5k ones. Thanks Protocold.

Daft
10-14-2004, 06:02 AM
If you install the 5000K Philips Color Match bulbs and you want more blue, you can always adjust the cutoff shield to create more of the blue prism from the projector.

I did it on mine and it projects a much larger blue portion at the cutoff points. With those 5000k bulbs it would fill in quite nicely.

Daft
10-14-2004, 06:04 AM
Originally posted by skene
I have 8500k and they are bluish... and we installed a 7000k kit in the PES Excusion which ended up being a purplish hue... both kits are 3200 lumens which is more than enough to light up the road.
You should look for any kit with a high lumen rating as it will differ from kit to kit.
ie. the OEM Audi HIDs run at 2400 lumen.


You know that those are false statements? Right?

ProtoColD
10-14-2004, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by skene
I have 8500k and they are bluish... and we installed a 7000k kit in the PES Excusion which ended up being a purplish hue... both kits are 3200 lumens which is more than enough to light up the road.
You should look for any kit with a high lumen rating as it will differ from kit to kit.
ie. the OEM Audi HIDs run at 2400 lumen.


First of all, there isnt any standard in the K rating, whoever sell those aftermarket bulb can say whatever K they want. There is no rule to verify it and none of them would have 3200 lumens.

Secondly, OEM Audi HID use either Philips 85122 or Osram bulb which is rated at 4300K in the specifications. They emit highest lumens in the class of 35W HID bulb.

If you get any bulb that emits only 2400 lumens, you shouldnt call it HID.

skene
10-14-2004, 08:35 AM
and what exactly is false about it?

Have you seen either kit?

Have you tested the overall light output of either kits?

or is it false because you think that it is.

EVIL-AUDI
10-14-2004, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by Daft
If you install the 5000K Philips Color Match bulbs and you want more blue, you can always adjust the cutoff shield to create more of the blue prism from the projector.

I did it on mine and it projects a much larger blue portion at the cutoff points. With those 5000k bulbs it would fill in quite nicely.

Wha kinds of adjustments did you make to the shields?

ProtoColD
10-14-2004, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by EVIL-AUDI
Wha kinds of adjustments did you make to the shields?

Push the shield slightly towards the bulb and away from the lens

EVIL-AUDI
10-14-2004, 09:44 AM
Thanks. Never thought of that. This should give a more blue effect? What if there were no shiled at all?

ProtoColD
10-14-2004, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by EVIL-AUDI
Thanks. Never thought of that. This should give a more blue effect? What if there were no shiled at all?

This would give you a more blue effect. The blue actually the result of the prizm effect and has to do with how the light wave spread out. There could be a separate physics class to discuss that.

If you dont have any shield, there would be no such effect and you will have no cutoff. You will have stronger beam but it also will blind everyone on the road.

EVIL-AUDI
10-14-2004, 11:04 AM
Hmm, so no cutoff, would just blind everyone, but negate the blue effect aswell.

Daft
10-14-2004, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by skene
and what exactly is false about it?

Have you seen either kit?

Have you tested the overall light output of either kits?

or is it false because you think that it is.


The Philips 85122 bulb (D2S) is rated at 3200 lm.

Proof: http://www.nuconverter.de/assets/2/pbd2s.pdf

The relationship of color temp (kelvin) to light output (lumen) is such that increasing color temp by adding higher quantities of xenon gas will ultimately reduce the amount of light output. Philips and Sylvania/Osram have been toying around with this balancing act for a while now.


The original D2R/D2S bulbs were designed to produce light that was as close to true white as possible. This being said, the other goal was to create the greatest amount of light output while coming as close to true white as possible.

Both Philips and Sylvania/Osram landed in the 4100K/3200lm area. This was the best possbile compromise between both worlds.

As these standard D2S/D2R bulb began to reach the 1000 hour mark they began to shift their color temp and in addition they also began to weaken in light output. This brought on the need for the Philips 85122+ and 85126+ bulbs. The Color Match bulbs.

The color match bulbs were adjusted to provide light that was closer to 5000K color temp while staying as close to the original D2 ouput level. The final result was a 5000K/3100lm bulb.

Proof: http://www.autolamps-online.com/gasdischarge/GE%20Xenon/images/d2%20CMPH.JPG

Another project as Philips was the Ultinon bulb (also called BL-2). This bulb had a much higher concentration of xenon gas which allowed a color shift up to 6000K. Unfortunately, the light output was reduced to 2400lm. Definately a shift in the wrong direction.

Proof: http://www.autolamps-online.com/gasdischarge/GE%20Xenon/images/GE%20D26K.JPG


In addition to the light loss on the Philips Ultinon bulbs, GE took a stab at a high color D2 series bulb. The bulb's color temp was pushed to a wopping 10000K via high amounts of xenon gas. This creates a very rich blue color but, in the end the bulb created light levels that were close to a standard halogen bulb.

Proof: http://www.autolamps-online.com/gasdischarge/GE%20Xenon/images/GE%20D210K.JPG

Now lets look at the PES HID kits (which are available in "white, blue and purple"). These kits are nothing more that a pair of standard 35W Philips LVQ-212 ballasts and a set of Taiwan made D2 knock off bulbs with blue coatings on the glass and increased amounts to xenon gas to cause the color temps to shift closer to pure blue.

http://www.pes-tuning.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/xenon_kit_lg.jpg

There is no way that a Taiwan made HID capsule with increased xenon gas levels is producing colors above 4100K while maintaining 3200lm of light output.

Another way that aftermarket brands have tried to improve upon standard HID lighting is to adjust the ballasts to push 50W of power through the bulbs to make the bulb brighter. This will increase light output but, in the end the bulb life will go right in the toilet.

In a nutshell, a standard HID bulb and ballast are the brightest and longest lasting combo on the market. Period.

DarkkstaR
10-14-2004, 11:15 AM
Good post :)

ProtoColD
10-14-2004, 11:16 AM
well said.

EVIL-AUDI
10-14-2004, 11:34 AM
I already blind everyone even with them aimed downward But I'm sure it's my xenon fogs that are doing that.

DarkkstaR
10-17-2004, 11:29 PM
Just to update:

I got the 5000K Colormatch bulbs, the ones ProtocolD stocks.

They're DAMN bright, and I like them a lot. Even in my halogen housings, they look pretty nice. White with hints of blue, but I need to break them in...theres barely an hour on them.

I'm lovin it :)

agravic 2.0
10-18-2004, 03:48 AM
Originally posted by skene
I have 8500k and they are bluish... and we installed a 7000k kit in the PES Excusion which ended up being a purplish hue... both kits are 3200 lumens which is more than enough to light up the road.
You should look for any kit with a high lumen rating as it will differ from kit to kit.
ie. the OEM Audi HIDs run at 2400 lumen.

i have a very hard time believing a >6000k kit will have anything more than 2800 lumens. there is alot of mixed bag marketing going on. esp non hella/philips/osram bulbs/systems

stock hids are 3200lumens and that's been verified.

agravic 2.0
10-18-2004, 03:53 AM
i again failed to read the whole post before replying ;-p

Daft summed it up entirely... and well said. presented accurately.

Skene, i too would like to believe some of the marketing gimmick. where are your bulbs made?

drew
10-18-2004, 03:48 PM
can someone please elaborate on how to adjust the cutoff shield....does the headlamp need to be taken apart? or can i just do it by sticking my finger in the projector?....i have stock halogens with xenondepot hid conversion and i am looking for that "bling" effect purple to white/blue.....

ProtoColD
10-18-2004, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by drew
can someone please elaborate on how to adjust the cutoff shield....does the headlamp need to be taken apart? or can i just do it by sticking my finger in the projector?....i have stock halogens with xenondepot hid conversion and i am looking for that "bling" effect purple to white/blue.....

can you stick your finger into the projector and pull the shield away from the lense?

e.van
10-18-2004, 04:05 PM
I don't even know if they're the right fitment, but you should get some OEM Nissan Skyline R33 GTR xenon bulbs. They're green in tint (look way greener in real life).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v357/adamsonem/Misc/r33bulb.jpg

DarkkstaR
10-18-2004, 04:09 PM
Why would someone want green? Better visibility even? Are those HID?

ProtocolD did ya get my PM? Just wondering when the adapters will be shipped.

e.van
10-18-2004, 06:25 PM
I dunno if the visibility is any better. Looks like they're around 3500K, but they're not like a 3500 blue, they really look more green, which I've noticed on other Nissans as well at some angles. Yes, they're OEM xenon lights, with ballasts and all. The real thing, not just a bulb replacement.

overboostpsi
11-02-2004, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by Daft
Go with a standard Philips D2S bulb (part number 85122). They are still the brightest bulb on the road.

Any bulb that is non-philips and is claimed to be rated for 6000k+ is just a blue tinted 4300K bulb that has been filled with extra xenon gas to create more color shift.

If you want the highest lumen and color temp combo, get a set of the Philips color match bulbs from ProtocolD. They are rated for 5000K but, they still provide as much light as the OEM D2S bulbs.

Hey...almost, but not really...

My distributor has great quality HID components, and all our bulbs are not tinted at all...all bulbs are clear and the different temperatures are carfully calibrated and tested.

Our HID Conversion kits don't use tinted bulbs and our D2S, D2R, and soon to come D1S bulbs are not tinted at all...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/overboostpsi/HID_6000K_D2S_50.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/overboostpsi/DRA4%20D2S%206000K/3586000ks-med.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/overboostpsi/DRA4%20D2S%206000K/3586000khid-med.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/overboostpsi/DRA4%20D2S%206000K/3586000k-med.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/overboostpsi/DRA4%20D2S%206000K/358102_0219-med.jpg

overboostpsi
11-02-2004, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by ProtoColD
First of all, there isnt any standard in the K rating, whoever sell those aftermarket bulb can say whatever K they want. There is no rule to verify it and none of them would have 3200 lumens.

Secondly, OEM Audi HID use either Philips 85122 or Osram bulb which is rated at 4300K in the specifications. They emit highest lumens in the class of 35W HID bulb.

If you get any bulb that emits only 2400 lumens, you shouldnt call it HID.


That's true...any one selling HID's can say what ever they want to market their kits, but we do have data sheets of our tests and kelvin ratings from these tests...

Our 5000K puts out 3000lumens
6000K 2800 lumens
8000K 2400 lumens
10K and 12K 1800 lumens

I always tell people about the light output before buying kits that way they know what they're getting.

A4orce84
11-02-2004, 09:05 PM
Hey Boostman,

How long is the "estimated" break-in period for the HID bulbs?

--Asif

ProtoColD
11-02-2004, 09:35 PM
nice pictures. since there is really some demands in higher color temp bulb. I have imported them directly and will have them in stock soon and I carry full line of xenon product. Expect some great offering soon. :)

overboostpsi
11-03-2004, 08:43 AM
Philips 6000K compared to my 6000K bulbs:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24950

Let me know what you guys think...

Daft
11-03-2004, 09:40 AM
The color is fine but, light output is more important to me than color. Philips OEM 4100K is still the brightest bulb.

overboostpsi
11-03-2004, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by Daft
The color is fine but, light output is more important to me than color. Philips OEM 4100K is still the brightest bulb.

We also carry 4000K bulbs...
3000K bulbs as well...

and a new Ion Yellow which is going to be tested on a B6's fogs very soon...I'll post the pics when it's done.

I'll also get the specs on the kelvin/lumens for you guys.

ProtoColD
11-03-2004, 11:20 AM
I dont think it is the question of the specifications. It is the quality.

why do people want to buy your 4000K bulb if they can get the OEM Philips/OSRAM Germany Bulb???

It is sometime quite interesting to see that some people want to go for the color look instead of quality and performance.

But everyone has a different preference and I do respect that. Those 6000K bulbs surely look cool but not everyone can afford the extremely expensive Philips Ultinon 6000K bulb, and in such cases, I do understand why people buying aftermarket bulbs.

overboostpsi
11-03-2004, 12:54 PM
some aftermarket parts are better performing than oem...this is why people do mods...

other wise why even bother...

ProtoColD
11-03-2004, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by overboostpsi
some aftermarket parts are better performing than oem...this is why people do mods...

other wise why even bother...

Yes. This is true for stuff like brake upgrades, wheel upgrades, exhaust, chips etc.... But not those bulbs.

overboostpsi
11-03-2004, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by ProtoColD
Yes. This is true for stuff like brake upgrades, wheel upgrades, exhaust, chips etc.... But not those bulbs.

I guess we'll have to see what the results are for mcpath and the bulb I sold to him...

ProtoColD
11-03-2004, 01:32 PM
and just testing over 1 or 2 people doesnt make enough fact and just from that fact that mcpath had blow up aftermarket bulb before already could tell something.

But I think most people have seen aftermarket halogen bulb blow up much faster... and i think most people have wonder why..

And those factory that make those aftermarket halogen bulb make aftermarket HID bulb too.

Daft
11-03-2004, 04:41 PM
^^^^^Correct on all points^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

overboostpsi
11-03-2004, 09:14 PM
I guess you guys didn't read mcpath's post:

"Thanx for the bulb looks great here go pic of my 6000K with your replacement bulb and a phillips 6000k bulbs. I forgot which side was which"

I think that's pretty that we can match philips output quality...

ProtoColD
11-03-2004, 10:04 PM
color and just visual look has nothing to do with quality. Some people swear that some 80W/100W can match OEM HID too, but guess what?! [confused] [eek]

overboostpsi
11-03-2004, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by ProtoColD
color and just visual look has nothing to do with quality. Some people swear that some 80W/100W can match OEM HID too, but guess what?! [confused] [eek]

According to him he cant tell the difference...that to me says alot...I guess you just don't want to admit it...

ProtoColD
11-03-2004, 10:50 PM
Admit what?

The fact that those china bulb blow doesnt tell you much?? Again, just by 1 person opinion cant prove anything dude.
To you means a lot doesnt mean that is is proven fact.

All car manufacturer either use Philips or Osram Germany bulb, and that include Germany, Japanese and American manufacturers. None of them use anything else, does that tell something??

There is proven reliability and performance for the Philips/Osram bulbs by the market and millions of car sold. What about yours?? Only 1 person opinion cant proof much dude. Even 10 wont be enough to claim that it is as reliable or comparable dude.

But the market already shown that what's the best out there.

If Philips Ultinon cost the same as your 6000K bulbs, guess what people would buy?

I can understand that some people are willing to trade off quality with cost+color just because the aftermarket bulb is cheap, but that doesnt mean that aftermarket bulb have the same quality as the OEM one.

If you are going to make a claim, it has to be realistic.

overboostpsi
11-04-2004, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by ProtoColD
Admit what?

The fact that those china bulb blow doesnt tell you much?? Again, just by 1 person opinion cant prove anything dude.
To you means a lot doesnt mean that is is proven fact.

All car manufacturer either use Philips or Osram Germany bulb, and that include Germany, Japanese and American manufacturers. None of them use anything else, does that tell something??

There is proven reliability and performance for the Philips/Osram bulbs by the market and millions of car sold. What about yours?? Only 1 person opinion cant proof much dude. Even 10 wont be enough to claim that it is as reliable or comparable dude.

But the market already shown that what's the best out there.

If Philips Ultinon cost the same as your 6000K bulbs, guess what people would buy?

I can understand that some people are willing to trade off quality with cost+color just because the aftermarket bulb is cheap, but that doesnt mean that aftermarket bulb have the same quality as the OEM one.

If you are going to make a claim, it has to be realistic.

You're absolutely right...If Philips bulbs were selling for the prices that I'm selling my bulbs for, I would buy them as well.

I'm not trying to bash your kits or bulbs...and the fact is that philips/osram kits and bulbs are proven to be of high quality...These are very big companies that have done years of R&D and have been in business developing lighting products for all types of applications.

I'm sure these companies, during some time, had defects in their products, and I'm sure they still do, but their failure rate must be really low...thanks to that R&D.

It's very hard to compete with that...considering that there are companies, for example, in China that are trying to produce lighting products as well. Granted they don't have the years of experience and R&D that Philips or Osram or Hella, but that does not mean that they can't put out quality stuff.

I was excited to find out that our xenon bulb matched the philips bulb...to me that 's good news.

You're also correct that 1 bulb means nothing and more testing needs to be done.

In the mean time...thanks for all the info you're providing...it's helping me and I'm sure it's helping many more people...I haven't been doing this for long, but it seems that you have and that means alot to everyone.

overboostpsi
11-04-2004, 06:50 AM
Oh yeah...I forgot to mention that you really don't have to sell your product...it pretty much sells itself...

I on the other hand, have to put a bit more effort into things...