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01_A4_Black
09-29-2008, 10:49 AM
So I dyno'd Saturday at Revolutions Performance down in the springs. I won the runs at the DATR raffle. I ended up putting down 245awhp and 200awtq. For reference, a stock wrx ran 160awhp and a stock sti ran 210awhp. Still much room for improvement, but $$ is going other places at the moment.

I'll post the graph as soon as I scan it.

Comments welcome...

Don Supreme
09-29-2008, 10:50 AM
how much boost?

01_A4_Black
09-29-2008, 10:52 AM
20psi

mike-2ptzero
09-29-2008, 11:05 AM
Pretty good numbers for a dyno dynamic. Were those SAE corrected numbers?

bob12312357
09-29-2008, 11:15 AM
Nice, outta curiosity what were K04 B5's puttin out if you recall.

pipe7284
09-29-2008, 11:35 AM
isnt a gt2871r able to go close to 300whp?

Don Supreme
09-29-2008, 11:44 AM
isnt a gt2871r able to go close to 300whp?

And more...........

Dyno dynamics is a very low reading dyno. I personally wouldn't dyno on one. I saw a 2871 a4 put down UNDER 200 awhp and a stage 3 s4 put down 300 AWHP on a DD dyno......

01_A4_Black
09-29-2008, 11:49 AM
Pretty good numbers for a dyno dynamic. Were those SAE corrected numbers?
Those are uncorrected numbers.

01_A4_Black
09-29-2008, 11:50 AM
Nice, outta curiosity what were K04 B5's puttin out if you recall.
They don't do a lot of Audi's there, mostly Suburu's and Evo's. So they didn't have a lot to compare to.

mike-2ptzero
09-29-2008, 12:22 PM
isnt a gt2871r able to go close to 300whp?

But look at the type of dyno and where he is located. Plus have to account for what octane fuel and how much boost being ran.

01_A4_Black
09-29-2008, 12:33 PM
But look at the type of dyno and where he is located. Plus have to account for what octane fuel and how much boost being ran.
At altitude and was running 91 octane. I want to take another run once I get my 100oct tune to see the difference. I would also like to run on a dynojet to compare to others. I am only running 20psi to be conservative on my stock block.

mike-2ptzero
09-29-2008, 01:00 PM
At altitude and was running 91 octane. I want to take another run once I get my 100oct tune to see the difference. I would also like to run on a dynojet to compare to others. I am only running 20psi to be conservative on my stock block.

If you are at high elevation running more boost might not get you any gains since the turbo is most likely well out of its effiency map at 20psi.

pipe7284
09-29-2008, 01:06 PM
But look at the type of dyno and where he is located. Plus have to account for what octane fuel and how much boost being ran.


And more...........

Dyno dynamics is a very low reading dyno. I personally wouldn't dyno on one. I saw a 2871 a4 put down UNDER 200 awhp and a stage 3 s4 put down 300 AWHP on a DD dyno......



True that!!!!!

whats the best and most accurate dyno?

NyteEscape
09-29-2008, 01:17 PM
whats the best and most accurate dyno?

my butt....[:D]...

California Jay
09-29-2008, 01:52 PM
the Dyno Dynamics is about as close/accurate as you will get to aiding in real life situations... the beauty of it is the preload you can adjust while driving. Extreme loads can let you see how well the car will perform in a track or towing enviroment, or up hill etc etc. Great for R/D.

mike-2ptzero
09-29-2008, 02:55 PM
Eddy load, Dyno dynamic is not the only dyno to use that feature.

onemoremile
09-29-2008, 03:30 PM
If a stock 300 hp STI did 210 then 245whp is 350bhp which isn't bad.

djwimbo
09-29-2008, 03:43 PM
If a stock 300 hp STI did 210 then 245whp is 350bhp which isn't bad.

eh, figuring the std 22% loss that's 300-315HP @ the crank.
For the elevation and and octane that's still going to be a really fun car to drive.

01_A4_Black
09-29-2008, 04:19 PM
Yea, it's great for a DD. Maybe someday I'll build the engine.

blmlozz
09-29-2008, 04:30 PM
isnt a gt2871r able to go close to 300whp?
a good running 2860rs will put down just above 300awhp.


the Dyno Dynamics is about as close/accurate as you will get to aiding in real life situations... the beauty of it is the preload you can adjust while driving. Extreme loads can let you see how well the car will perform in a track or towing enviroment, or up hill etc etc. Great for R/D.
I agree, knowing some people that prefer it vs other kinds. However since most of the enthusiast crowd use mustang/Dynojet on their cars, it's not ideal.

djwimbo
09-29-2008, 04:33 PM
a good running 2860rs will put down just above 300awhp.

On W/M and not at his altitude.

01_A4_Black
09-29-2008, 04:40 PM
a good running 2860rs will put down just above 300awhp.


I agree, knowing some people that prefer it vs other kinds. However since most of the enthusiast crowd use mustang/Dynojet on their cars, it's not ideal.
I want to run on a dynojet just to see what the difference is. Then I can compare to the majority.

onemoremile
09-30-2008, 07:01 AM
eh, figuring the std 22% loss that's 300-315HP @ the crank.
For the elevation and and octane that's still going to be a really fun car to drive.

Um, no. A stock STI is 300hp or damn close to it. If it made 210whp then the losses on this dyno are 30%. 300 divided by 210 and then multiplied by 245 is 350.

The "standard" drivetrain loss is just an estimate. In this case the STI functions as a control group and gives us the percentage needed for a closer approximation.

If the stock STI made 250whp then it lost 1/6 of it's power. If it had made 200whp then it lost 1/3 of it's power. It doesn't actually lose that power but consumes it moving all those moving parts around. The dyno is calibrated to read whatever it reads and at best approximates a consistent loss.

It is like using a torque wrench that you know clicks at 10% too low. Jack up the values 10-11% and you get the desired torque.

djwimbo
09-30-2008, 08:17 PM
Um, no. A stock STI is 300hp or damn close to it. If it made 210whp then the losses on this dyno are 30%. 300 divided by 210 and then multiplied by 245 is 350.

The "standard" drivetrain loss is just an estimate. In this case the STI functions as a control group and gives us the percentage needed for a closer approximation.

If the stock STI made 250whp then it lost 1/6 of it's power. If it had made 200whp then it lost 1/3 of it's power. It doesn't actually lose that power but consumes it moving all those moving parts around. The dyno is calibrated to read whatever it reads and at best approximates a consistent loss.

It is like using a torque wrench that you know clicks at 10% too low. Jack up the values 10-11% and you get the desired torque.

I get what you're saying, but that assumes the drivetrain loss from an STI and from an A4 are identical. Given they still use the same style ring and pinion, longitudinally mounted engine, etc. I could see the losses being close, but not identical.

How is that style dyno set up? A set of rollers calculated at XXX lbs, or is the the type that bolts right onto the wheel hubs?

biketsai
09-30-2008, 09:44 PM
Hmm, how much do you think I will dyno?
01 A4 Quattro Automatic
T28-2.5" turbo back, 2.5" testpipe.
380cc injectors, running 23lbs, 93 octane.

01_A4_Black
10-01-2008, 06:57 AM
Here is my hp/tq chart. All 3 runs were identical within .5hp.

http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/90892/dyno.jpg

mike-2ptzero
10-01-2008, 07:40 AM
When do you hit full boost because your dyno plot looks like a GT35 not a GT2871r. Why did they only run the car to 6600?


I understand you are at high elevation but 6500 rpm's seems a bit late to be hitting full boost.

01_A4_Black
10-01-2008, 07:43 AM
I hit full boost just under 4k rpm. Not sure why he didn't run up to 7k, but that's where he ended. I am going to try and run some logs this weekend, so I'll try and post boost curves.

mike-2ptzero
10-01-2008, 07:48 AM
I hit full boost just under 4k rpm. Not sure why he didn't run up to 7k, but that's where he ended. I am going to try and run some logs this weekend, so I'll try and post boost curves.

Odd because thats not what the dyno is saying.


Here is my dyno to compare it with, I hit 25psi at 4600 rpm and ramps up to 32psi before 5400 rpm.

http://mysite.verizon.net/restdnlz/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/mikehood554whp.jpg.w560h707.jpg


Back when I was just running 25psi.
Note: The tq graph is not scaled correctly, the numbers on the left side is for whp only.

http://www.034motorsport.com/images/FeaturedUsers/hood_mike/MIKE_HOOD_488.1B.jpg?phpMyAdmin=ba872f831b6b4cca57 fb0e086b813453&phpMyAdmin=7794ddb6ccb464f8af0082f45d9184b2

Don Supreme
10-01-2008, 07:51 AM
Had you run it up to 7.2k you would have probably put down 260 + awhp.. Seeing as though your torque curve kept going up...

That dyno looks really wierd for a 2871. As Mike said it looks like a 30 series dyno, and I also find it wierd that you PEAK torque is > 6400..... It looks like a big cam dyno without the revs haha.

dougyfresh
10-01-2008, 07:59 AM
If a stock 300 hp STI did 210 then 245whp is 350bhp which isn't bad.
My thoughts exactly.



a good running 2860rs will put down just above 300awhp.

On race gas 300awhp.

The OP ran on 91octane. Pretty good numbers for 91octane at altitude in my opinion. Esp when compared to the Subaru's that dynod on the same day. Colorado Springs is around 6,000ft above sea level.

01_A4_Black
10-01-2008, 08:08 AM
Not sure then. That was my first dyno experience so I wasn't sure what to expect from it. Hopefully I can get on a mustang/dynojet before winter to compare with. Anything I can log this weekend besides boost to explain the chart?

dougyfresh
10-01-2008, 09:17 AM
I think there is a dynojet somewhere in the Denver area. Talk to Jordan (co avant) and Ted (denvernoob). They know where it is and are planning on going there very soon.

CO AVANT
10-01-2008, 09:26 AM
http://www.macautosport.com/

mike-2ptzero
10-01-2008, 09:39 AM
My thoughts exactly.



On race gas 300awhp.

The OP ran on 91octane. Pretty good numbers for 91octane at altitude in my opinion. Esp when compared to the Subaru's that dynod on the same day. Colorado Springs is around 6,000ft above sea level.

Well I asked if it was corrected readings and he said no but looking at the Subaru's numbers it looks like they are corrected and here is why.

Subaru makes 300chp at sea level, put down 210 whp and a dynodynamic dyno reads at 30% loss.

210 whp with a 30% loss = 300chp
The math (210x100) divided by 70 = 300

So this means the readings for the A4 are also corrected for sea level.

The stage 3 S4 put down 290whp and on that dyno thats 414chp.


Sorry to rain on the parade again, but dyno shops are always going to give a SAE corrected reading unless the person ask for uncorrected print out.

dougyfresh
10-01-2008, 09:46 AM
Mike... post #8

Those are uncorrected numbers.

mike-2ptzero
10-01-2008, 09:51 AM
Mike... post #8

Yes I know, but that is because the dyno plot does not say if it is corrected or not. So explain how a 300chp STI makes 300chp at 6000 ft.

sean1.8t
10-01-2008, 09:51 AM
i hate dyno threads.

everyone's an expert.

great numbers man! really!

01_A4_Black
10-01-2008, 10:00 AM
Here is a Zeitronix log from a few months ago. The boost reading is 2-3psi lower than actual. Shop wasn't sure why, but was consistant on all cars.

http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/90892/z-log.jpg

I can send the logs too if anyone is interested.

CO AVANT
10-01-2008, 10:12 AM
That # for the sti subi has got to be corrected if done on a dynamics machine up here. I did a dyno on a dynamics machine up here with my K04 and barely put down 200whp. Come on Mike, we all know how you LOVE SAE corrected #'s on FI setups [>_<] [;)]

mike-2ptzero
10-01-2008, 10:13 AM
Is it the long line for all the readings? Your peak boost is a bit after that line.


That # for the sti subi has got to be corrected if done on a dynamics machine up here. I did a dyno on a dynamics machine up here with my K04 and barely put down 200whp. Come on Mike, we all know how you LOVE SAE corrected #'s on FI setups [>_<] [;)]

Well if his numbers are SAE correct then his car is making what it should be on 91 octane at high elevation, which would be around 265whp SAE corrected on a dynojet or about 225whp uncorrected using 15% for the high elevation. Might be a little higher if they had ran the car to redline. Hey but that is just my guess.

01_A4_Black
10-01-2008, 10:19 AM
That # for the sti subi has got to be corrected if done on a dynamics machine up here. I did a dyno on a dynamics machine up here with my K04 and barely put down 200whp. Come on Mike, we all know how you LOVE SAE corrected #'s on FI setups [>_<] [;)]

Jordan - Someone mentioned that you may be looking to dyno soon? Any truth to that?

01_A4_Black
10-01-2008, 10:22 AM
Is it the long line for all the readings? Your peak boost is a bit after that line.

Yes. Peak boost is at 20.6psi @ 4880rpm. I hit 19psi at 4500rpm.

CO AVANT
10-01-2008, 12:04 PM
Yes I am going to dyno really soon as a matter of fact. Just waiting for those temps to drop some more. No forced air going into the engine on a dyno makes for crappy #'s when it's hot out. MAC's fans are crap too unless they recently updated them... I want to dyno in temps under 60deg.

01_A4_Black
10-01-2008, 12:18 PM
You set on MAC? I have heard their numbers are inflated. Any exp with Carz?

CO AVANT
10-01-2008, 12:23 PM
No, they have an AWD dynojet? I am going to dyno at MAC again since all my dyno's have been done there. I can compare my previous setups more easily that way. The #'s seem inflated since they use such a high correction factors there. We should really only be looking at our uncorrected #'s anyway since that is what we are actually making up at this elevation.

01_A4_Black
10-01-2008, 12:50 PM
That works. Just let me know when you are thinking as I may have a couple more that may want to join.

dougyfresh
10-01-2008, 01:10 PM
That works. Just let me know when you are thinking as I may have a couple more that may want to join.

That would be ideal. Get a bunch of cars with similar set-ups together to dyno on the same day. You can then all compare and contrast uncorrected numbers.

mike-2ptzero
10-01-2008, 01:15 PM
If you guys were here we could jump in on the dyno day that a shop in Murrieta has once a month, price is $50 for 3 pulls for any fwd/rwd/awd car.

CO AVANT
10-01-2008, 01:20 PM
That's cheap for out there. Ours is $64 for 3 pulls...

01_A4_Black
10-03-2008, 09:33 PM
So I found my problem of late rpm hp curve from my dyno run. I noticed that my dv was completely disconnected from the intercooler piping. So after plugging it back in, I am now boosting up to 25psi (from 20) and it seems to come on sooner. I am going to try and run some logs this weekend so I should be able to get a good boost curve. Now to dyno again and see the difference.

CO AVANT
10-06-2008, 01:31 PM
Sweet, that usually helps [;)]

Saturday is looking promising... Gonna hit up Ted and see if he's ready yet.

Don Supreme
10-06-2008, 02:10 PM
Jeez ------------------------- Thats HUGE!


Sweet, that usually helps [;)]

Saturday is looking promising... Gonna hit up Ted and see if he's ready yet.


What an under statement [;)]

P.S. -

That is bad for the turbo since it had to work so much harder due to big leak from the DV>

01_A4_Black
10-06-2008, 02:57 PM
Yea, I know its bad for the turbo but I had no idea until my dyno that something was up. Never got an error code in 6 moths of running.

Saturday sounds good to me if you get things together.

Tiluleshpingen
10-06-2008, 03:04 PM
True that!!!!!

whats the best and most accurate dyno?

trap speed,gear and rpm

sean1.8t
10-06-2008, 05:56 PM
Yea, I know its bad for the turbo but I had no idea until my dyno that something was up. Never got an error code in 6 moths of running.

Saturday sounds good to me if you get things together.

6 months???

how did you not notice it wasn't hooked up? i know whenever i blow my DV off, it's a pretty damn big difference in how the car acts all throughout the rev range.. and there's the absence of the DV noise. didn't you ever wonder?

im suprised your turbo hasn't shit the bed

01_A4_Black
10-06-2008, 06:12 PM
It has been disconnected from day 1 so I didn't know any different from what it should be. The car is not a dd and probably only has 3k on the turbo. I was wondering about the lack of noise, which is why I started looking. And now I have the BOV chirp.

a220vt
10-06-2008, 08:02 PM
Are you guys going to dyno on Saturday? Any idea what time?

01_A4_Black
10-07-2008, 05:32 AM
I'm in if everyone is ready.

CO AVANT
10-07-2008, 11:34 AM
Are you guys going to dyno on Saturday? Any idea what time?


Did you buy a Aasco LW flywheel from me a couple years ago?

Tried to see if Ted could dyno the same time as me. He says his tune isn't refined enough and it will be around the 25th of October before he thinks he is good to go. Since we are both B6's, and both with setups no one else is running, I'd like to see the difference between the two in the same conditions... I'm honestly in no hurry to dyno. It's just gonna get colder out which = more power [:D]

SpeedWorksAuto
10-07-2008, 12:09 PM
That seems low. My k03 with exhaust chip and intake hit 176hp and 254 tq, with race gas, which totally screwed power since my car isnt tuned for it. A guy with a 1.8t Jetta hit 195 hp and 255 TQ with similar mods

01_A4_Black
10-07-2008, 12:13 PM
Did you buy a Aasco LW flywheel from me a couple years ago?

Tried to see if Ted could dyno the same time as me. He says his tune isn't refined enough and it will be around the 25th of October before he thinks he is good to go. Since we are both B6's, and both with setups no one else is running, I'd like to see the difference between the two in the same conditions... I'm honestly in no hurry to dyno. It's just gonna get colder out which = more power [:D]

Just let me know when. I'm ready to run once there is a group together.

sean1.8t
10-07-2008, 12:28 PM
That seems low. My k03 with exhaust chip and intake hit 176hp and 254 tq, with race gas, which totally screwed power since my car isnt tuned for it. A guy with a 1.8t Jetta hit 195 hp and 255 TQ with similar mods

read the thread genius [;)]

CO AVANT
10-07-2008, 01:43 PM
yeah I'll let you know. I think they will give us a discount if there are at least 5 cars in a group... I'll have to check on that one.

01_A4_Black
10-07-2008, 06:59 PM
So now that I have the dv valve re-connected, I am losing boost pressure near 25psi. It ramps up, then falls back to ~20 and starts ramping back up. Has anyone had experience with the Dahlback dv needing to upgrade the springs to be able to hold more boost pressure?

sean1.8t
10-07-2008, 07:37 PM
what are you using to control boost?

sorry, no experience with the dahlback DV.

01_A4_Black
10-07-2008, 07:46 PM
N75k. No MBC.

http://kmdtuning.com/store/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=166

sean1.8t
10-08-2008, 01:52 AM
N75k. No MBC.



well there's your problem, me thinks.

get a mbc, cap off the boost at ~22-23psi(or whatever you want and feel is safe for the motor after logging it) and you will hold that boost to redline and make much more and better power than if you were spiking at 25+ and settling at 20

dougyfresh
10-08-2008, 05:40 AM
well there's your problem, me thinks.

get a mbc, cap off the boost at ~22-23psi(or whatever you want and feel is safe for the motor after logging it) and you will hold that boost to redline and make much more and better power than if you were spiking at 25+ and settling at 20

No. Check the DV springs first. They may not be strong enough at those pressures to keep the DV closed.

The N75 is perfectly capable of running 25psi. If you really want to confirm the N75 is good just unplug it from the W/G actuator and see what you get. Probably the same answer which points to the DV spring-rate.

01_A4_Black
10-08-2008, 06:44 AM
I'll be calling the local Dahlback rep this morning and asking about their spring pressure. Also, I'll probably throw in a Forge or Bailey's tonight and see if that makes a difference. Thanks.

a220vt
10-08-2008, 07:02 AM
Did you buy a Aasco LW flywheel from me a couple years ago?


Sure did [:D]

I'd like to dyno with you guys too, keep me updated.

01_A4_Black
10-08-2008, 10:33 AM
So the local Dahlback dealer just said to run the dv backwards. Input boost into the side and let it release throught the bottom. That way the boost isn't forcing the valve open. Hopefully then it is completelly vacuum operated. Anyone else running their dv this way?

onemoremile
10-08-2008, 10:54 AM
Lots of people have run their diverter valves backwards.

a220vt
10-08-2008, 10:56 AM
That's how the OEM valve goes.

CO AVANT
10-08-2008, 12:13 PM
I have been running my forge 007 backwards for the last 5 years.

mike-2ptzero
10-08-2008, 12:37 PM
Lots of people have run their diverter valves backwards.

Backwards from what? Because Audi installed the stock OEM bosch valve both ways from the factory since it could handle the stock boost.

There is a way to put in a piston type valve and a way to install a diaphram type valve.