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View Full Version : lets talk brake pads...



.Mad Hatter.
08-31-2008, 05:55 PM
for stock blanks...on a car which is daily driven.

looking for good stopping but i dont want to chew through the rotors quickly.

your thoughts?

djwimbo
08-31-2008, 06:03 PM
My PBR Metal Masters just got owned at the track. Street usage they're fine though.
I will be upgrading.

.Mad Hatter.
08-31-2008, 06:05 PM
i had those on my 16v...but didnt drive it much.

how long have you had them for? hows the wear?

djwimbo
08-31-2008, 06:14 PM
I put the fronts on @ 160K, I'm at 173K now and I have 75-80% of the pad left. Well, I did until today. I used them for numerous AutoX events w/o an issue and for DD they're cheap and effective.
I'd consider the Ceramics but I hadn't heard any reviews at all of the PBR ceramics.

blmlozz
08-31-2008, 06:18 PM
I use akebono's.. they're OEM brand for BMW's and mercs.. good stopping power and very little dust, threw them on the car when I got it, 20K later they still have 3/4 pad left. they were a bit expensive if I remember, the place I got them from wasen't that great a shop however.

.Mad Hatter.
08-31-2008, 06:22 PM
ok, so padwear is good...but how do they treat the rotors?

blmlozz
08-31-2008, 06:24 PM
ok, so padwear is good...but how do they treat the rotors?

they're acutaly pretty easy on them, no abnormal wear, no pitting even on the stock 110,000 mile rotors.

hope this helps
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/8428/img0191rl4.jpg

fernando
08-31-2008, 07:33 PM
hawks hps they rock....great on the street, superb on the track....not too hard on the rotors

Silverstreak98
08-31-2008, 08:11 PM
I really like the PBR Ceramics, been using them a few thousand so far.

The dust with these pads is way way down from the stock pads....and I've been happy with their performance in the few panic stops/slow downs I've had so far.

.Mad Hatter.
09-01-2008, 07:08 AM
has anyone tried the mintex red box? apparently OEM quality, which doesnt really impress me, i wanted something with a little more bite.

are you guys replacing your rotors everytime you get new pads, or no?

jm121189
09-01-2008, 07:19 AM
I have used both PBR and akebono and I think the akebono's are a little better but either is a good choice. Most people will need to replace the pads before they replace the rotors. If you change the rotors you should always change the pads.

djwimbo
09-01-2008, 08:34 AM
Looks like I will be upgrading to the Carbotech's.
Dear God are they pricey, but they should be worth it at the track. I need to figure something out for cooling as well. It took a LONG time for even my wheels to cool down after one heat at the track.

Carbotech (http://www.ctbrakes.com/pads/audi.html)

M1NDCRlME
09-02-2008, 10:01 PM
I've got the mintex reds on stock rotors. They dust a little more than stock but they haven't been hard on the rotors. They definately stop better than stock and seem to bite better as they warm up...

NK2007
09-02-2008, 10:11 PM
I really like the PBR Ceramics, been using them a few thousand so far.

The dust with these pads is way way down from the stock pads....and I've been happy with their performance in the few panic stops/slow downs I've had so far.

+1 For pbr ceramics!
Put them in and they love to stop! Dust is alot better than stock as well.

When i was looking what to buy, i was going to go with mintex red box pads, but after a lot of reading, people were saying that they wear quick and there is a decent amount of dust.

For the money, pbr ceramics seemed to be the best. Hawk hps are supposed to be great, but they are $$$

oldblu
09-02-2008, 10:18 PM
Just put PBR Ceramics on the back. Already feel a difference. I already have PBR Ceramics for the front but haven't put them on-very optimistic

Mad_Audi
09-03-2008, 12:16 AM
i love my hawk hps pads.

jaustin
09-03-2008, 05:37 AM
Ive used the mintex reds before and thought they worked out great for daily use.

.Mad Hatter.
09-03-2008, 06:39 AM
where are you guys ordering the PBR ceramics from?

AudiRacerS4
09-03-2008, 06:41 AM
where are you guys ordering the PBR ceramics from?

ECS thats where I got mine

.Mad Hatter.
09-03-2008, 06:48 AM
awesome, just found them...whats this sensor wire for?

Silverstreak98
09-03-2008, 07:17 AM
awesome, just found them...whats this sensor wire for?

If you have brake wear sensors you need that to hook them up.

I found PureMS has better prices...and have the pads available with and without the sensor wire.

onemoremile
09-03-2008, 07:23 AM
PBR Ultimate Ceramics front and rear for 3 years now. They are the shit. Good grip cold or hot, no noise, no dust, no wear. Well, obviously there has to be wear and dust but I don't clean these wheels and they aren't dirty and the rotors look great so whatever. The Outback runs Satisfied Ceramics and they are also great.

I ran Carbotech Bobcat street pads and they were the same with a few added problems. They were $160, were slippery when cold, squealed like a pig every once in a while, etc.. They were absolutely destroyed in one track day. After a lengthy discussion with Carbotech's owner I ordered a set of Panther track pads. Ran them with track tires on a well setup car and they were amazing. I abused them but couldn't get them to fade (the Panthers sent us into the dandelions a few times on street tires) or misbehave in any way. Distances seemed half as long as with the street pads. The pads and rotors were in perfect condition after the event which is mystifying.

PBR Ceramics - excellent, cheap
Carbotech Bobcats - good, expensive
Carbotech Panthers - phenomenal, expensive

DuviVr6
09-03-2008, 07:39 AM
I run Mintex red box and they are pretty good for DD I had them in my 92 Jetta GLi 2.0 with infinite mods and the held on fine and lasted for ever

so i decided to run them on the A4 and they are cheap and do very good job!

I also have SS lines and cross-drilled/slotted rotors in both cars with ATE blue fluid

.Mad Hatter.
09-03-2008, 07:57 AM
ok, i think im going to go with the PBR ceramics, a little pricey but im not one to skimp on brakes.

i have no idea if i have a wear sensor...i assume not. im a 97 1.8t, sport and cold weather...

i dont think i have a warning light on my dash for brakes other than ABS

oldblu
09-03-2008, 08:21 AM
Go on PUREMS.COM . They're great and have low prices and when you put your vehicle info in, it'll tell you if you have the sensor (Front only)

xraycer2012
09-03-2008, 08:25 AM
hawks hps they rock....great on the street, superb on the track....not too hard on the rotors

x2. I love mine.

.Mad Hatter.
09-03-2008, 09:37 AM
purems is the winner...awesome info guys, thanks a million.

and for the hell of it, keep the discussion up

Beemer832
09-03-2008, 09:54 AM
hawks hps they rock....great on the street, superb on the track....not too hard on the rotors

second this. hawk HPS pads are great street pads. tried the HP+ pads for the track but they werent much better then the HPS pads. Both great street pads but i would recommend HPS over HP+ for street.

-josh

Nebone
09-03-2008, 10:31 AM
I have the Hawk HPS now to replace my old Mintex Red Box. They stop much better but squeel like a pig once in a while which I don't really mind. They give some dust but not that much. Still have Redbox in the rear.

.Mad Hatter.
09-09-2008, 03:25 PM
question...if i can only order pads WITH the sensor wire and i dont need it...can i just cut it off?

djwimbo
09-09-2008, 03:49 PM
that should be fine. AFAIK there's no difference in size or fitment for the pads w/ or w/o sensors.

.Mad Hatter.
09-09-2008, 08:29 PM
i wouldnt think so...mjm only offers them with the sensor

NK2007
09-10-2008, 01:12 AM
The sensor is basically a wire divided by a piece of plastic. This slides into a hole in the pad and when the pad wears to the hole, it completes or breaks the circuit.

So to answer your question, yes. If you order the sensor pads and you don't have the sensor connector, simply pull the wire out.

.Mad Hatter.
09-10-2008, 07:19 AM
alright good, because i ordered them last night.

they look identical visually...cant wait.

ps-i was going to go with the pbr ceramics, but purems doesnt ship to canada...and ecs wanted 250 (80$ for shipping) for the pads and rotors...pass.

mintex red and ATE blank rotors are on their way from mjm.

dcampana
09-10-2008, 11:40 AM
bought my A4 wth EBC green stuff pads and HATE HATE HATE them... dust galore, brake fade is evident (short auto x track here) and noisy to boot. [headbang] I am ordering new rotors and pads, will go with the PBR ceramics. Thanks for all the tid bits AZ... you all are a heap of help always...

.Mad Hatter.
08-16-2009, 05:08 PM
Well, I am considering an upgrade so I figured I would get this thread back up there with some questions and hopefully some input. (can anyone tell I am not satisfied with my brakes, lol.)

Hawk HP Plus (http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-Quattro-1.8T/Braking/Pads/ES655/)

I will likely just do the fronts at first, $133.

PBR ULT Ceramics (http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-Quattro-1.8T/Braking/Pads/ES2196/)

only $60 for the fronts, how well do they hold up for an auto-x, a track day? will they bite as well as the Hawks?

Then there are the carbotechs, which look a little more expensive than the Hawks. Keep in mind that these pads will be used on the street as well.

So, anything else anybody can contribute? Jim you mentioned that you liked the Ceramics, how did they hold up on the track. Are the Hawk pads worth the extra cash? How about rotor wear, etc?

biketsai
08-16-2009, 05:16 PM
Its probably a better idea to have a different set of pads for the track. I DD the PBR ceramics (which are amazing), but I thought they would hold up at the track. After a couple track sessions they have created some suppppperrrrrr hot spots on my rotors.

.Mad Hatter.
08-16-2009, 05:22 PM
damn, thats going to get annoying, especially with having to compress the rear piston

Seerlah
08-16-2009, 05:24 PM
I am sure this info may not be helpfull, but opinions/input is usually a good thing. I purchased new rotors and Mintex Red Box pads, and I like them. There was no need for me to have to press hard on the brakes yet, and I usually downshift before needing to apply brake pressure. But when I do use the brakes, they have a pretty nice bite. Not sure how they will hold up for Auto-X days, though. Brake dust is also held to a minimum.

I intitially wanted the PBR ceramics (don't know if they differ from the ULT ones), but the kit I was looking at was cheaper (PureMS vs MJM). When I was in the market before and was going to order the Adam Rotors (sold in the GB section), he said that he also has kits. He suggested the Carbotechs and that is what he was going to sell me with that kit (once again, this was while I was searching for the best price and also did not settle with the Adam kit).

Basically, if it was not for the price of the kit with the Mintex pads, I would have gone PBR Ceramics.

Just my .02

.Mad Hatter.
08-16-2009, 05:29 PM
I have the mintex reds on now, trying to figure out whether its the fluid or the pads that are the weak point.

Seerlah
08-16-2009, 05:40 PM
I have the mintex reds on now, trying to figure out whether its the fluid or the pads that are the weak point.

Maybe both.

CX-7&A4
08-16-2009, 05:42 PM
I put in Textar (OE pads) on my B7.. they rock. Better than the Pagid OE pads, and I paid $49 shipped within the US.

biketsai
08-16-2009, 05:42 PM
Hmm, I would say go with the cheaper route first, get a liter or 2 of the fluid and bleed out your whole system. If you are not satisfied, pads!

.Mad Hatter.
08-16-2009, 05:45 PM
i think as of now thats the plan. if not, i may just do the a8 rotors up front with some hawks for the track

biketsai
08-16-2009, 05:46 PM
i think as of now thats the plan. if not, i may just do the a8 rotors up front with some hawks for the track

Just make sure that your track-duty pads can withstand the harsh track conditions. For track pads you will need something that takes a bit more to heat up but can operate at a much higher temperature.

.Mad Hatter.
08-16-2009, 05:48 PM
thats the problem with auto x, no time to warm up.

biketsai
08-16-2009, 05:50 PM
thats the problem with auto x, no time to warm up.

Gotcha

2001A4QUATTRO
08-16-2009, 09:37 PM
I have mintex reds on the front with zimmerman cross drilled rotors. All street driving but I am HARD on brakes (and cars for that matter) Numerous stops in a row from 100+ Pads bite good and the fade is not that bad.. pedal feel is still good even on hard stops from 120 down to 30-40. Will be upgrading to PBR ceramics and A8 front setup soon... :)

onemoremile
08-16-2009, 11:53 PM
I haven't run the PBR Ceramics on the track and probably never will. My Carbotech Panthers are still in great shape and work at higher temps. Pushing a street pad past it's temp range is partly what causes them to wear so quickly. The track pads have a temp range that starts higher which is why they suck on the street but once up to temp they are amazing. Their upper temp limit is hundreds of degrees higher than street pads which makes all the difference in the world.

You can run street pads on the track but be aware of how much heat they are retaining. If they start to fade at all just back off a bit and let them cool for a lap or two. Gotta keep them in their happy place or they won't keep you on the track. I've killed many a dandelion by cooking street pads.



Well, I am considering an upgrade so I figured I would get this thread back up there with some questions and hopefully some input. (can anyone tell I am not satisfied with my brakes, lol.)

Hawk HP Plus (http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-Quattro-1.8T/Braking/Pads/ES655/)

I will likely just do the fronts at first, $133.

PBR ULT Ceramics (http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-Quattro-1.8T/Braking/Pads/ES2196/)

only $60 for the fronts, how well do they hold up for an auto-x, a track day? will they bite as well as the Hawks?

Then there are the carbotechs, which look a little more expensive than the Hawks. Keep in mind that these pads will be used on the street as well.

So, anything else anybody can contribute? Jim you mentioned that you liked the Ceramics, how did they hold up on the track. Are the Hawk pads worth the extra cash? How about rotor wear, etc?

fritzner
08-21-2009, 10:02 PM
i am looking at:
Hawk HPS
vs.
PBR Ceramic
vs.
EBC Redstuff

basically i am looking for a VERY good street pad.. i dont need anything for track/auto-x.. just want a good upgrade over the crappy stock Audi brakes..

- looks like PBR Ceramics are the much cheaper, but how do they compare??..
- i bought brakes from a guy that owns his own VW parts store and he was running Hawk HPS.. they are also one of the best selling pads on ECS..
- i dont know much about EBC Redstuff, but saw some good write-ups on here..


2nd question:
i usually just go with Mintex Redbox for the rear, but thought i would go with a better pad to help any bit i can with the crappy stock brakes.. are the rears worth an expensive pad??.. are Hawk HPS worth close to twice the cost of PRB Ceramics??..

thanks!!..

Kyle H
08-21-2009, 11:11 PM
has anyone tried the mintex red box? apparently OEM quality, which doesnt really impress me, i wanted something with a little more bite.

are you guys replacing your rotors everytime you get new pads, or no?
That's what I run all around with brembo blanks in the front and stock rotors in the rear... they're great for street and auto-x, but I cook the shit out of them on aggressive canyon runs. I can't wait to replace them.

Hawk HP+ will be going on next... I'll be sticking with brembo blanks f/r probably.

fritzner
08-25-2009, 09:05 AM
i started a POLL (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=306434) over in the Brake forum, check it out and cast your vote..


i am looking at:
Hawk HPS
vs.
PBR Ceramic
vs.
EBC Redstuff

basically i am looking for a VERY good street pad.. i dont need anything for track/auto-x.. just want a good upgrade over the crappy stock Audi brakes..

- looks like PBR Ceramics are the much cheaper, but how do they compare??..
- i bought brakes from a guy that owns his own VW parts store and he was running Hawk HPS.. they are also one of the best selling pads on ECS..
- i dont know much about EBC Redstuff, but saw some good write-ups on here..


2nd question:
i usually just go with Mintex Redbox for the rear, but thought i would go with a better pad to help any bit i can with the crappy stock brakes.. are the rears worth an expensive pad??.. are Hawk HPS worth close to twice the cost of PRB Ceramics??..

thanks!!..

Poopie
08-25-2009, 10:07 AM
hawk hps pads are the best street pad in my oppinion. perfect for an aggressive driving. trackable though as well with good lines and brake fluid. If you are a weekend worrior, changing pads isn't too bad.

J Ozzie
08-25-2009, 11:18 AM
Hawk HPS or Ebc

VMRWheels
08-25-2009, 11:40 AM
hawk hps pads are the best street pad in my oppinion. perfect for an aggressive driving. trackable though as well with good lines and brake fluid. If you are a weekend worrior, changing pads isn't too bad.

Iv used both HPS and HP+ and I would choose the HP+ hands down. The pad bite and consistency is a night and day difference between both on track. They do take about 2 to 3 stop lights to warm up so that should work fine for a daily driver/auto-x car. Be warned though... they dust like no other. [:|]

-Charles@VMRWheels

fritzner
08-27-2009, 07:44 AM
anyone running the new EBC Redstuffs??..
"If you have previously tried EBC Redstuff (pre-ceramic compound) this material is light years ahead. It lasts longer, it brakes better and is quieter."

not sure why i didnt really consider the Hawk Ceramic at 1st, anyone running those??..

though money is REALLY tight right now, so i may just go the PRB Ceramics..
neither car gets much spirited driving (well the A4 gets a little).. just trying to improved the braking..

thanks for all the input..

CX-7&A4
08-27-2009, 10:59 AM
anyone running the new EBC Redstuffs??..
"If you have previously tried EBC Redstuff (pre-ceramic compound) this material is light years ahead. It lasts longer, it brakes better and is quieter."

not sure why i didnt really consider the Hawk Ceramic at 1st, anyone running those??..

though money is REALLY tight right now, so i may just go the PRB Ceramics..
neither car gets much spirited driving (well the A4 gets a little).. just trying to improved the braking..

thanks for all the input..

EBC's are excellent pads.

NK2007
08-27-2009, 11:39 AM
Alright so as i believe i have posted before, I'm running PBR ult ceramics, with ss brake lines, motul fluid, and a8 rotors up front. I have never had a problem until a week ago. They are great on the street, with great bite and very little dust.

The pedal feel is perfect... any time i drive anyone elses car, i realize how nice mine is.

That being said, I went for an aggressive canyon drive a couple weeks ago. This was probably the hardest i have driven my car, and by the time i was to the top of the ridge (45 minutes - an hour of hard driving) i noticed a little brake fade. On the way down the other side of the ridge, it got to be pretty scary... no brake responsiveness at all. 15 minutes from the top, we got to where we were camping, and i had maybe 10% of my braking capacity. I dont know if it was because the fluid was boiling or what, but i was glad i didnt have to drive down that night.

onemoremile
08-27-2009, 02:56 PM
Something is definitely wrong. You shouldn't be able to put enough heat into the pads to get that kind of problem on a public road. Especially while climbing.

I run the PBR Ult Ceramics on all four corners with blank rotors, stainless lines, and ATE Typ. 200 fluid and they haven't faded in the 4 years they have been on the car. That includes a trip through the tail of the dragon at a running weight of about 4,300 pounds. The BMW touring bike behind me was scraping pegs to keep up. It does depend on your braking technique too. I use smooth progressive force and brake very firmly then stay off them as much as possible to keep them cool. I try to to spend any more time pushing that brake pedal than absolutely necessary.

Most street pads are good up to 850-950 degrees while track pads are good to 1250, 1350, or even past 1500.

-jim




Alright so as i believe i have posted before, I'm running PBR ult ceramics, with ss brake lines, motul fluid, and a8 rotors up front. I have never had a problem until a week ago. They are great on the street, with great bite and very little dust.

The pedal feel is perfect... any time i drive anyone elses car, i realize how nice mine is.

That being said, I went for an aggressive canyon drive a couple weeks ago. This was probably the hardest i have driven my car, and by the time i was to the top of the ridge (45 minutes - an hour of hard driving) i noticed a little brake fade. On the way down the other side of the ridge, it got to be pretty scary... no brake responsiveness at all. 15 minutes from the top, we got to where we were camping, and i had maybe 10% of my braking capacity. I dont know if it was because the fluid was boiling or what, but i was glad i didnt have to drive down that night.

NK2007
08-27-2009, 03:33 PM
I dont think there was a problem, as i have never encountered any issues before. The switchbacks were mixed with straight sections, and i was breaking hard entering the corners. Straights i was hitting 90 or so, then downshifting and breaking to 60-65, so there was a good amount of heat. In several cases, my tires where squealing through the corners. (not to say i have the best tires- kuhmo escta something that are fairly warn)

onemoremile
08-28-2009, 10:46 AM
My braking on track is from 90 to 30 and it still takes a few laps to cook street pads. Like a solid 8-10 minutes of full on beatings before the fade starts. Then they drop to about 50% and it takes a full cool down lap to get them back.

VMRWheels
08-28-2009, 11:51 AM
That being said, I went for an aggressive canyon drive a couple weeks ago. This was probably the hardest i have driven my car, and by the time i was to the top of the ridge (45 minutes - an hour of hard driving) i noticed a little brake fade. On the way down the other side of the ridge, it got to be pretty scary... no brake responsiveness at all. 15 minutes from the top, we got to where we were camping, and i had maybe 10% of my braking capacity. I dont know if it was because the fluid was boiling or what, but i was glad i didnt have to drive down that night.

Was the brake pedal squishy? What MOTUL fluid were you running? You could have boiled your fluid causing air to get into the lines, but thats really unlikely for the RBF600 to do that on a canyon run. I think you just might have overheated your pads.

-Charles@VMRWheels

NK2007
08-28-2009, 02:45 PM
Im pretty sure it is rbf600, and i figured it boiled, but everything went back to normal the next day when we drove down so it may have been overheated pads too.

.Mad Hatter.
08-28-2009, 03:19 PM
glad i ordered the ate fluid vs. the motul then.

thanks Jim!

lol.

fritzner
08-30-2009, 09:15 AM
i decided to try out the new 2009 Ceramic EBC Redstuff..

now where is the best to buy them??..
- ECS has them for $99.96 front + $66.27 rear + $17.71 shipping..

- eBay (Kuruma Motoring) has them for $84.30 front + $62.96 rear + free shipping.. has anyone bought from them??.. i have some concern they are not the new formulation..

who else sells EBC??..

MJM Autohaus
09-28-2009, 10:42 PM
where are you guys ordering the PBR ceramics from?

We stock PBR pads. We fully encourage to you to scour the Earth for the best deals on PBR (or Hawk Performance) pads and let us know what we have to beat. We can normally beat anyone's price on PBR Ceramics (or Hawks).