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View Full Version : Stage 4 clutch.. Really that stiff??



andyrew
07-18-2008, 06:34 PM
Driving my new SB stage 4 clutch... God Damn that is stiff! The worst part about it is that feels really springy, so its hard to get used to.

I dont think I can do bumper to bumper in it... I just hope it breaks in a little.

Militant-Grunt
07-18-2008, 07:02 PM
Is it full face or pucked?

andyrew
07-18-2008, 07:26 PM
full face

Militant-Grunt
07-18-2008, 07:38 PM
It still may break in, how many miles on it?

What setup are you running on your car?

Rico750
07-18-2008, 08:02 PM
it ll break in and get smooth.. takes few days...

andyrew
07-18-2008, 08:44 PM
Erm under 1k miles suposedly, Thus I figured no real break in was necessary...

New 15lb steel spec flywheel though (combination of the two make for a very difficult normal driving start...)



I hope it gets better, Im sure it'll happen on my track day tomorrow... lol

$teady$upreme
07-18-2008, 11:19 PM
I am in the same boat, just installed my South Bend stage 4 with Fidanza 10lbs flywheel, it is definitely very hard to get used to.

Hopefully things get better[cool]

$teady$upreme
07-18-2008, 11:21 PM
Springy is right. Even if you reach the engagement point, you have to slowly release, or else car will jerk badly.




Driving my new SB stage 4 clutch... God Damn that is stiff! The worst part about it is that feels really springy, so its hard to get used to.

I dont think I can do bumper to bumper in it... I just hope it breaks in a little.

biketsai
07-18-2008, 11:23 PM
I drove a stage 4 and it felt pretty smooth,granted it has been on there for a while.

aaronamerica
07-19-2008, 12:26 AM
lol I was just thing about starting a thread on this....my spec clutch just blew out today so I want to get a southbend clutch but i do not want that the hard pedal feel, so whats the best strong setup for me???

$teady$upreme
07-19-2008, 01:06 AM
Hoping the hard feeling goes away once its done breaking in.


lol I was just thing about starting a thread on this....my spec clutch just blew out today so I want to get a southbend clutch but i do not want that the hard pedal feel, so whats the best strong setup for me???

andyrew
07-19-2008, 04:22 AM
Aaron, I'll post after my meeting, Im going to simulate about 5k miles today so this should really tell me...

aaronamerica
07-19-2008, 06:19 AM
I have a buddy that has that clutch and it did losen up a lil after lots of mile put on it but its still too hard for my likings though...maybe southbend has a lighter pressure plate for that clutch disk???

seank
07-19-2008, 06:29 AM
Are you guys sure it is really that bad and that you just are not too used to the stock clutch softness that a 90 year old granny could drive? These are the first opinions that I have heard of a SouthBend Clutch being hard to drive, plus you even have a full face, not a puck design, also a 15lb flywheel isn't that light, I find it hard to believe that it is that horrible.

pac1085
07-19-2008, 10:30 AM
I briefly drove a apr stage 3 avant with the OFE stage 4 SS, and the pedal was stiff as hell compared to the clutchnet I used to run...

bob12312357
07-19-2008, 12:02 PM
Driven an Audi with a Stage 4 clutch and LWF , not sure of the brand. Didn't think the stiffness made it a bad DD, rather the abrupt engagment, and fact that the bitch loved to stall when not given gas in 1st at 5mph.

Militant-Grunt
07-19-2008, 02:28 PM
Aaron, I'll post after my meeting, Im going to simulate about 5k miles today so this should really tell me...

How were you breaking in the clutch before?

Hoping nothing over 4k and no aggressive shifts?

isleepsober
07-19-2008, 03:01 PM
yeah it gets smoother

JumboBlack1.8
07-19-2008, 04:44 PM
When I got my Stage 4 clutch, i stalled out twice in the parking lot at the shop....the break in period is rough to get used to, but after about a week, ur leg gets a LOT stronger, and you start to like the feel of a stronger, sportier clutch.....I drove a modified 335i the other day and the clutch was SOOOO softer (even worse than a stock a4)....the stiffer clutch makes it feel more fun once u get used to it.....plus, it NEVER slips

qtek16
07-19-2008, 04:48 PM
When I got my Stage 4 clutch, i stalled out twice in the parking lot at the shop....the break in period is rough to get used to, but after about a week, ur leg gets a LOT stronger, and you start to like the feel of a stronger, sportier clutch.....I drove a modified 335i the other day and the clutch was SOOOO softer (even worse than a stock a4)....the stiffer clutch makes it feel more fun once u get used to it.....plus, it NEVER slips

haha oh it will slip--just wait till your tranny starts acting up--

I have a stage 4 south bend--I put a brand new dual mass flywheel on it with it though--I love it--I cant stand stock clutches anymore--Hard for me to drive them hehe

biketsai
07-19-2008, 05:51 PM
lol I was just thing about starting a thread on this....my spec clutch just blew out today so I want to get a southbend clutch but i do not want that the hard pedal feel, so whats the best strong setup for me???
what did you do!! lol, too many 5k launches?

badjoke
07-19-2008, 06:45 PM
I'm getting a Stage3 Southbend, and Steel Lightweight Flywheel soon.

Should I expect similar stiffness?

aaronamerica
07-19-2008, 07:59 PM
I'm getting a Stage3 Southbend, and Steel Lightweight Flywheel soon.

Should I expect similar stiffness?

2nd

NyteEscape
07-19-2008, 08:03 PM
things will get better. i think you just need to get used to it. i live in nova so i have to deal with dc's 66/495 traffic. its not that bad, and u get used to it really fast.

i used to think the s4 clutch was stiff. now its like a slinky to me...

HEEPJEEP
07-19-2008, 08:04 PM
Been DDing my Stage 4 SB for 10K miles now, wouldn't have it any other way, I love it. Isn't any harder to push than my Jeep or trucks I have owned.

njm23
07-19-2008, 09:02 PM
you guys are girls.. SB stage 4 and 11lb flywheel. daily driver lots of miles + rush hour traffic. Not one complaint. It gets a lil better but it keeps that springyness. I like it, would rather have that then the stock clutch, that thing was so soft.. and would slip like it was its job if I launched it.

$teady$upreme
07-20-2008, 01:44 AM
This is what i concern about most. It is not the stiffness of the clutch, is where if you let go the clutch too quickly, the abrupt engagement that i hate most. You can feel the whole transmission kind of vibrating.


Driven an Audi with a Stage 4 clutch and LWF , not sure of the brand. Didn't think the stiffness made it a bad DD, rather the abrupt engagment, and fact that the bitch loved to stall when not given gas in 1st at 5mph.

andyrew
07-20-2008, 10:06 AM
Definately lots more vibration and clutch chatter than I had expected. However the clutch is much easier to use now, Still slightly springy, but not near as bad as it was.

Siena
07-20-2008, 10:56 AM
haha oh it will slip--just wait till your tranny starts acting up--

I have a stage 4 south bend--I put a brand new dual mass flywheel on it with it though--I love it--I cant stand stock clutches anymore--Hard for me to drive them hehe

You had your tranny out, replaced your clutch with a stage 4 Southbend, and then slammed in anothe DM flywheel?? [o_o]

That was the ideal time to get rid of the DM! [confused]

sean1.8t
07-20-2008, 11:01 AM
maybe southbend has a lighter pressure plate for that clutch disk???

yeah, it's called a southbend stg 3 clutch. same organic/feramic disk, but with the lighter pressure plate.


all in all, i've had both stg 4 and 5 southbend clutches on my car. the stg 4 was a BREEEEEEEZE to drive. i liked it better than stock for all types of driving. the stg 5 is just a little bit more tricky. but you get used to it in like a day at most. you guys all need to butch up or something. my 115lb girlfriend only stalled my car once on a 20 minute city drive the first time she tried out the stg 5 clutch

aaronamerica
07-20-2008, 01:29 PM
yeah, it's called a southbend stg 3 clutch. same organic/feramic disk, but with the lighter pressure plate.


all in all, i've had both stg 4 and 5 southbend clutches on my car. the stg 4 was a BREEEEEEEZE to drive. i liked it better than stock for all types of driving. the stg 5 is just a little bit more tricky. but you get used to it in like a day at most. you guys all need to butch up or something. my 115lb girlfriend only stalled my car once on a 20 minute city drive the first time she tried out the stg 5 clutch

hey so what stage would you recommend for my setup i have, I've gone through 3 Spec clutches, they just dont last lol

sean1.8t
07-20-2008, 01:52 PM
well if you plan on beating on the car with launching and hard shifting i would suggest the FE stg 5 clutch.

if you just want it to hold and last for normal daily driving, then stg 4.

fwiw, there have been a few BT guys that have blown the stg 4. i fused my stg 4 disk to my flywheel on a 5k launch. upgraded to the stg 5 as there has yet to be a failure that i know of. my stg 4 did last over 25,000 miles with prolly 20 or so launches.

beejohn
07-20-2008, 02:02 PM
don't be a pussy, i love mine wish it were stiffer. i want a workout when i drive my car :). sb stg4 here

aaronamerica
07-20-2008, 02:09 PM
well if you plan on beating on the car with launching and hard shifting i would suggest the FE stg 5 clutch.

if you just want it to hold and last for normal daily driving, then stg 4.

fwiw, there have been a few BT guys that have blown the stg 4. i fused my stg 4 disk to my flywheel on a 5k launch. upgraded to the stg 5 as there has yet to be a failure that i know of. my stg 4 did last over 25,000 miles with prolly 20 or so launches.


thanks so I may go with the stage 5 then

HEEPJEEP
07-20-2008, 07:56 PM
I do 6000 rpm launches every day, don't worry about it. If you have chattering you probably needed a new flywheel or to resurface it (good luck finding some one with the correct stones to do it).

aaronamerica
07-20-2008, 08:36 PM
I do 6000 rpm launches every day, don't worry about it. If you have chattering you probably needed a new flywheel or to resurface it (good luck finding some one with the correct stones to do it).

lets see some vids of this, what clutch setup you have

qtek16
07-21-2008, 07:52 AM
You had your tranny out, replaced your clutch with a stage 4 Southbend, and then slammed in anothe DM flywheel?? [o_o]

That was the ideal time to get rid of the DM! [confused]


Yeah i just did not want to deal with chatter--loss of bottom end torque, etc...

AEB A4
07-21-2008, 09:23 AM
I just bought a Stage 3 southbend clutch at WF. The guy said i wouldnt need the stage 4 for my application. It looks to be a nice clutch but the guy didnt really tell me what it could hold. I got a k04 with pc-16 and almost all the suporting mods. Will this clutch be strong enough to hold the power or should i upgrade and be safe. What is it rated at?

andyrew
07-21-2008, 09:40 AM
AEB,

stage 3 is fine for your use. 300hp I believe is what thats rated at.

GL
Andrew

AEB A4
07-21-2008, 10:00 AM
Andyrew, Thats what im hoping. The website says 300ft of torque and the pc-16 makes about that to the crank. Are the torgue figures for the clutch to the wheels or the crank. If its to the crank then i might have to upgrade

andyrew
07-21-2008, 10:10 AM
TQ is for the crank.

Do you plan on launching at 6k all the time? How are you going to drive it?

AEB A4
07-21-2008, 10:14 AM
no launching all the time but i dont want this thing to burn up in a few months. ill be running around 22psi. i might just sell it and buy the spec stage 2+. any thoughts on that?

andyrew
07-21-2008, 10:23 AM
It'll hold.

Those ratings are if your drag racing/launching.. IE how much TQ it can hold on a launch..

I would seriously just run it... I wanted to get a stage 3 for my car, but I bought my stage 4 kit used instead w/ 1k miles.

qtek16
07-21-2008, 10:24 AM
get the stage 4

maxspeed
07-21-2008, 02:35 PM
my sb stage 4 is smooth as silk, stock clutches feel cheesy/weightless to me now

sean1.8t
07-21-2008, 11:01 PM
It'll hold.

Those ratings are if your drag racing/launching.. IE how much TQ it can hold on a launch..

I would seriously just run it... I wanted to get a stage 3 for my car, but I bought my stage 4 kit used instead w/ 1k miles.

please stop talking.

clutches are 1, rated in ft lbs of torque. never in hp. and 2, they are not rated for that torque at a launch. more of how much they will hold under normal driving(like hitting the gas in 4th gear up to redline. launching on any clutch is extremely hard for them, and although they will withstand "x" amount of launches, that much pressure under a hard launch on an AWD car is not what they are designed for

mike-2ptzero
07-22-2008, 07:58 AM
please stop talking.

clutches are 1, rated in ft lbs of torque. never in hp. and 2, they are not rated for that torque at a launch. more of how much they will hold under normal driving(like hitting the gas in 4th gear up to redline. launching on any clutch is extremely hard for them, and although they will withstand "x" amount of launches, that much pressure under a hard launch on an AWD car is not what they are designed for

Correct. The claimed #'s given for a clutch is always for when the car is already rolling. I was able to snap a sprung disk which was rated for 500 ft lbs of tq while launching the car and I wasn't anywhere near that at the time.

andyrew
07-22-2008, 11:38 AM
Ok then,

I'll just put my foot back in my mouth now.

AEB A4
07-22-2008, 11:48 AM
im confused again on what i should do. WTF!!!

seank
07-22-2008, 12:11 PM
It never hurts to have more than you need, however it does suck to do something and then find out later you didn't get enough.[;)]

mike-2ptzero
07-22-2008, 12:31 PM
im confused again on what i should do. WTF!!!

Just stay away from anything that has organic or kevlar material on the disk. If your going to go south bend SS then skip the 4 and get the stage 5. It might have a little more on/off feel to it because you wont be able to slip it like the stage 4 which does have the organic material on it for just that reason.

AEB A4
07-22-2008, 12:58 PM
yeah i got Stage 3 so it does have that "stuff " All im really looking for is a clutch that will hold the power and a few launches a year when ever i go to the track. I dont want to have one track day and have it be totally burnt, on the same not i dont want to drive around on a 6 puck. The stage 2+ from SPEC is looking better and better. I just dont think the Stage 3 from SB (rated at 300ft. lb. ) is going to hold for long, its cutting it close

maxspeed
07-22-2008, 01:05 PM
i completely incinerated my spec stage 2+ in under 15k miles, complete shit of a clutch, i know of a few other members/past members that had the same experience with it

AEB A4
07-22-2008, 01:24 PM
i dont think with my power, or lack there of, i will incinerate it. It has to be beter than the Stage 3 SB clutch. If the AWE kit says 295tq for the k04 and i got a few extra mods then i should be right around there at 22psi. right? 300ft tq. holding power for the Stage 3 is cutting it close dont you think?

mike-2ptzero
07-22-2008, 02:12 PM
Which SB stage 3, full face disk or the iron disk?

kingtr
07-22-2008, 02:56 PM
im confused again on what i should do. WTF!!!

I would use the SB 3 OFE. I have had this clutch in two cars and thought it was quite comparable to stock clutch (a bit stiffer obviously). I currently have one in my 2001 FXK04 (GIAC "hammer" file) and it holds great. I don't launch all the time (or ever), but its seen a number of 3.5-4k launches no problem. Your PC16 should only be making maybe a few more HP (if any) than my setup so I would think it would work well for you.

As far as Mikes comment about the organic surface being bad... I will say I had to replace the clutch in my current car (was SB 3 OFE) because the organic surface actually separated from the disc. SB said it never should have happened and warrantied the clutch (even though I was not original purchaser). They said most likely was tons of launches or a severe miss-shift (i.e. running out 3rd and accidently hitting 2nd instead of 4th, or running out 4th and then hitting 3rd instead of 5th.)

aaronamerica
07-22-2008, 05:35 PM
i completely incinerated my spec stage 2+ in under 15k miles, complete shit of a clutch, i know of a few other members/past members that had the same experience with it

2nd....I'm on my third spec clutch I believe the clutch has gone again lol but will know for sure when we pull the tranny

HEEPJEEP
07-22-2008, 10:52 PM
lets see some vids of this, what clutch setup you have

Ok, gotta find some one with a camera, might be a while (have dial up internet, yeah, still exists....).

Stage 4 SB full faced clutch.

AEB A4
07-23-2008, 06:12 AM
yeah i got the SB Stage 3 OFE. I guess if i break it in properly it wont give me any problems. Like i said, i dont lauch on a regular basis and when i do, it will be a few runs down the 1/4 mile track. Ehh, im kind of anxious to put it in so i can finally put my chip in =]

silky
07-23-2008, 09:46 AM
ok very usefull info. I placed an order for stage 4 FE clutch from south bend. this still works with our stock flywheel.

Is there any hands down reason i should be upgrading the flywheel during this time???? 2.7t stage 3

maxspeed
07-23-2008, 10:21 AM
i dont think with my power, or lack there of, i will incinerate it. It has to be beter than the Stage 3 SB clutch. If the AWE kit says 295tq for the k04 and i got a few extra mods then i should be right around there at 22psi. right? 300ft tq. holding power for the Stage 3 is cutting it close dont you think?

youd think that would be the case, but if you drop the clutch, and you dont have the power to spin the tires, well, something along the line has to give, and generally its gonna be the clutch if you got a weaker one, once you got a strong clutch you move onto breaking things like drive shafts, axles, and differentials [headbang][headbang][headbang]

silky
07-23-2008, 10:48 AM
christ. not looking forward to breaking those things.

andyrew
07-23-2008, 11:47 AM
youd think that would be the case, but if you drop the clutch, and you dont have the power to spin the tires, well, something along the line has to give, and generally its gonna be the clutch if you got a weaker one, once you got a strong clutch you move onto breaking things like drive shafts, axles, and differentials [headbang][headbang][headbang]

I havent heard of very many people breaking those parts...

mike-2ptzero
07-23-2008, 12:03 PM
I havent heard of very many people breaking those parts...

We dont because the A4 doesn't make enough tq, the S4 owners break those parts.

andyrew
07-23-2008, 12:05 PM
Ah... Thats kind of what I thought..

I know TQ is what kills parts... I have had a v8 in a 914 for 3 years..