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View Full Version : Oil Pan Removal/Installation



sixfiveoh
06-01-2008, 08:22 PM
Cracked mine. [headbang]

Coilovers + ninja railroad tracks = $250 tow back to my house from 27 miles away.

Where can I get a replacement? The crack is too big to JB weld...

im sofa king
06-01-2008, 08:44 PM
Cheapest solution= have someone tig weld it. I do it all the time for customers. But for a replacement I think your best bet would be the classifieds if you want to save money.

audiness
06-01-2008, 08:46 PM
oooh that sucks...

i guess try a junkyard... or the stealership

biketsai
06-01-2008, 09:08 PM
Hey, IM me and ill see if I can find you one shipped out from Texas if youd like.

.aye four.
06-01-2008, 09:56 PM
have fun with it replaced mine not to long ago hit a rock on the highway wasn't fun. I just got mine from the stealership.

Burntaudi
06-01-2008, 11:55 PM
The pan isn't that expensive at the dealer. The problem is the subframe needs to be droped to swap it.

Wizard-of-OD
06-02-2008, 02:01 AM
Cheapest solution= have someone tig weld it. I do it all the time for customers. But for a replacement I think your best bet would be the classifieds if you want to save money.
I do NOT recommend TIG welding your broken oil pan....

If you need a used one I can find them no problem as I have quite of few people who buy AEB's just to swap them into transverse vehicles (which means they cant use the AEB oil pan).

If you need one let me know.

sixfiveoh
06-02-2008, 08:13 AM
PM'd you Issam.

How difficult of a job is it dropping the subframe and everything?

im sofa king
06-02-2008, 12:23 PM
I do NOT recommend TIG welding your broken oil pan....

I'll only do it for hairline cracks, not if the things in 2 pieces or anything. And its usually on our race cars out at the track when no one can get their hands on an e30 m3 oil pan in between races.

sixfiveoh
06-02-2008, 04:59 PM
Is it NECESSARY to raise the motor AND drop the subframe/crossmember to get to it? Or would I be fine with just dropping the subframe

MattzWarsteiner
06-02-2008, 06:52 PM
I saw ECS has them for AWM engines with oil sensor for $175. This guy (http://www.audiforums.com/m_899203/tm.htm) has one over at AF. Not sure of the year etc.

sixfiveoh
06-02-2008, 06:54 PM
Thanks for looking out. They seem to be $125 on MJM...

Can anyone confirm whether or not I have to raise the engine, or if I can get this done just by lowering the crossmember?

ExpLlclT
06-02-2008, 07:08 PM
scribe where it is now so you don't fuck up your front end alignment dunno boutthe engine i'd think just slower subframe but i got a 2.8 sorry

AudiA4_20T
06-02-2008, 07:43 PM
Is it NECESSARY to raise the motor AND drop the subframe/crossmember to get to it? Or would I be fine with just dropping the subframe

just dropping the subframe should be fine

sixfiveoh
06-02-2008, 07:59 PM
I don't suppose there's any kind of basic writeup floating around on here on how to drop the subframe eh?

BLUEisFASTER
06-02-2008, 08:10 PM
there was a screen that i had replaced when i replaced my oil pan. not sure what its called but it recommended because of potential oil gunk up over time. anybody know what i'm talking about? i think its between the pan and the oil pump.

317ssayzarc
06-02-2008, 08:39 PM
there was a screen that i had replaced when i replaced my oil pan. not sure what its called but it recommended because of potential oil gunk up over time. anybody know what i'm talking about? i think its between the pan and the oil pump.

the black plastic windage tray/ baffle?

sixfiveoh
06-02-2008, 09:54 PM
Should I start by taking the sway bar off or is that not necessary? Do I take the bolts out of those mount looking things? Just a quick step by step little sentence on how to drop this thing would be peachy [:)]

flyromeo3
06-03-2008, 05:31 AM
i cracked my oil pan too a few months ago. I used some expoxy on it to hold down the hairline cracks I received. Just like you Coilover + f"d up roads = that.
I do have to replace it anyway and i've seen them on ECS for about 160 or 170 it was.

Nebone
06-03-2008, 06:07 AM
Should I start by taking the sway bar off or is that not necessary? Do I take the bolts out of those mount looking things? Just a quick step by step little sentence on how to drop this thing would be peachy [:)]

You will have to remove everything that is in your way to access the oil pan. Sway bar is the least of your worries. Important part here is that you set your subframe exactly as it was. Use some paint or parkers to mark it up and line it up afterwards or an alignment could cost ya hefty if they have to shift the subframe.

Onemoremile had some pictures and tips of dropping the pan if you need them.

pinky
06-03-2008, 08:45 AM
there was a screen that i had replaced when i replaced my oil pan. not sure what its called but it recommended because of potential oil gunk up over time. anybody know what i'm talking about? i think its between the pan and the oil pump.

that's the pickup tube for the oil pump

Militant-Grunt
06-03-2008, 08:47 AM
The oil pan swap is a complete pain in the ass, got to drop the frame to get access to the rear bolts.

sixfiveoh
06-03-2008, 09:54 AM
well I thought I'd be able to get down to business today and get rid of the old oil pan while I wait for a new one, but I'm sitting in court at jury duty right now. awesome.

Nebone
06-03-2008, 11:18 AM
Did you install the suspension by yourself? If you did that then you can probably tackle the oil pan.

I did 2 MK4 pans already, 2.0 and VR6, and they both use a sealant instead of a gasket. 2001 1.8T A4 could be either or. Research the gasket situation first.

pinky
06-03-2008, 11:36 AM
a4 pan is a lot different than a mk4...

Nebone
06-03-2008, 12:59 PM
a4 pan is a lot different than a mk4...

In shape, but its still aluminum and mounts to an iron block.

.aye four.
06-03-2008, 01:00 PM
Cliffnotes.

1. Jack up car and place one jack stands.
2. Place car in service position (front end removed)
3. Attach engine hoist to engine and tighten to hold in place.
4. Remove front sway bar.
5. Remove Engine mount and transmission mount.
6. Unbolt Front of subframe and loosen rear bolts but do not remove.
7. Lift motor to where the transmission almost touches the firewall (I used a jackstand under the transmission for safety).
8. Use 2x4 to wedge sub frame down.
9. Remove bolts from oil pan (2 bolts hidden in flywheel housing).
10. Apply sealant to new pan and reattach.

Wow actually fit it into 10 *Easy* steps.

Have fun with it, just make sure you take your time.

sixfiveoh
06-03-2008, 01:52 PM
I don't have access to an engine hoist, is this possible without lifting the motor? Maybe I can lift it by putting a 2x4 on a jack under the tranny? Is there a way to do this just by lowering the subframe?

.aye four.
06-03-2008, 02:51 PM
You might be able to get away with just lowering the subframe and lifting from the tranny. But it was alot easier to get to the hidden bolts with the engine hoisted up a little. Maybe if you have some short extensions or wobble heads it might work.

Toyotatech
06-03-2008, 03:58 PM
I didn't touch the subframe, I just used a jack on the bell housing.

Remove front end like your doing a timing belt, remove braces (you will know), remove nuts for the motor mounts, lossen tranny mount bolts ( completely removing bolts can cause alignment issues during reassembly), remove oil pan bolts (some need to be removed through the beel housing holes), jack motor up with jack under bell housing (carefull) slide pan twards driver side as you fight it out (it will come). I don't think I even loosened the bolts on the subframe but I may have, I didn't drop it though because I didn't want to affect the wheel alignment.

sixfiveoh
06-03-2008, 04:40 PM
If I do drop the subframe, should I mark where it sits from side to side or forward to back? Or both?

sixfiveoh
06-03-2008, 06:23 PM
Another question for you guys, this is the right pan for my car right?

http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=6169_6170_6186_6188_6726_92 09&info=OEM_VAG_06B103601P_Oil_Pan_OEM&products_id=1970

pinky
06-04-2008, 07:30 AM
looks like the right one.

Nebone
06-04-2008, 08:45 AM
Don't rush with this. Make sure to give the oil drain lots of time so most of it comes out or it will be a mess when you take the pan off as it will start falling off from the block walls.

When you see the oil pick up tube inside, spray some brake cleaner in there as it will dissolve the buildup so you can clean that passage if theres any gunk inside.

Maybe you can consider getting some stiffer engine mounts while at it as they will be disconnected anyways.

onemoremile
06-04-2008, 09:58 AM
I lowered the subframe and lifted the engine. Getting the pan out required a lot more lifting since it is a really tight fit. The way the pan is shaped makes it harder to remove.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/onemoremile/IMG_2879.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/onemoremile/IMG_2882.jpg

sixfiveoh
06-04-2008, 11:39 AM
Do the 01s have gaskets or should I just get some gasket sealer?

http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=6169_6170_6186_6188_9568&info=Victor_Reinz_D176404A2_Gasket_Sealer_OEM&products_id=2340

Nebone
06-04-2008, 11:44 AM
Aluminum pans to iron blocks tend to use sealer over rubber gaskets. I have done 2 so far on MK4 jettas and both had aluminum pans and used OEM VW Sealant. Its $$$ Look at the pan and see if there is any white goo around where the mating surfaces are to see if it used sealant.

Your car is not unreliable, you just seem to break lots of ish on it. ;)

sixfiveoh
06-04-2008, 11:48 AM
So looks like I'll be ordering the sealer listed above, this pan : http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=6169_6170_6186_6188_6726_92 09&info=OEM_VAG_06B103601P_Oil_Pan_OEM&products_id=1970 and an OEM oil filter.

Even with 3 day shipping it still comes out to less than the pan itself at the dealer. MJM FTW.

biketsai
06-04-2008, 11:53 AM
Hope things work out dude

Nebone
06-04-2008, 11:59 AM
Pans are madd money at the dealer. Tow truck busted my girls VR6 pan and I proved it. They agreed and were gonna find a used one but couldn't and I said I need the pan right now so they went out and blew over $300 on a new dealer one.

sixfiveoh
06-04-2008, 08:35 PM
Ahhg screw this I'm just gonna try the silicone method. I ordered the oil pan already too, but if a $5 fix will save me all of this trouble, then I'm taking it.

Nebone
06-04-2008, 08:38 PM
Silicone method? The pan is under pressure and any "band aid" fix will blow right out.

sixfiveoh
06-04-2008, 08:41 PM
Well I just can't figure out how I'm going to be able to do this with such a lack of tools. My car is on the street, that's where the tow truck driver dropped it off, my garage is up a steep driveway, so theres no getting around the fact that I'll be doing this on the street. I sat under the car, removed the sway bar, removed these bolts

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w10/seatown88/104374987.gif

And then like realized. Shit. Idk how I'm going to be able to pull this off. My neighbor who used to be a mechanic or something said that the silicone method should work, it has in the past for him on a few cars, but you don't think it'd do anything but break?

BrokeDown[20V]
06-04-2008, 08:47 PM
You should jb weld, add oil, and just get it up the drive way into the garage. Then change pans there.

sixfiveoh
06-04-2008, 08:52 PM
That seems like alot of work lol just to have to drain it all over again once I get in my garage. It's a suburban neighborhood and its a court, not a busy street at all so the only thing about it being in the garage is I'd be more apt to work on it at night. Or I could tie something to the beams of the garage to act as a hoist.

sixfiveoh
06-04-2008, 09:09 PM
Maybe if I break it down in smaller steps, that'll help me.

So. I should mark the subframe in relation to the body of the car so I can realign it properly, correct? Then, completely remove these bolts and "drop" the subframe?

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w10/seatown88/104374987.gif

Then should I start removing all the bolts I possible can from the oil pan?

BrokeDown[20V]
06-04-2008, 09:18 PM
Sorry, I misread, I thought you wanted to get it off the street.

My bad, once you drop the subframe, its pretty srtaight forward what you will be able to get to with the tools you have. Most likely you will have to loosen the motor mounts (not remove), And jack the engine up with a small 2x4 on the bell housing.

Some one else please chime in to correct anythin I may have said.

Nebone
06-05-2008, 05:56 AM
Motor Mount Info...

Take out the bolts on TOP of the motor mounts. This will allow you to jack/hoist the motor up. Might have to do the same with transmission mounts but I changed motor mounts and never loosened the trannie ones.

Get the car ino the garage. JB weld it and let it sit overnight. Fill with oil in the morning and drive into the garage. Then drain it into a clean pan so you can reuse it.

AudiA4_20T
06-05-2008, 07:57 AM
good luck man

.aye four.
06-05-2008, 09:15 AM
Maybe if I break it down in smaller steps, that'll help me.

So. I should mark the subframe in relation to the body of the car so I can realign it properly, correct? Then, completely remove these bolts and "drop" the subframe?

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w10/seatown88/104374987.gif

Then should I start removing all the bolts I possible can from the oil pan?


I removed both brackets on either side on the front of the subframe pictured.

onemoremile
06-05-2008, 09:37 AM
You can see in my second pic above that I removed the lower nuts on the motor mounts. This is to make it easier to guide it back down. I started by loosening all the motor and trans mounts and jacked it up slowly until they started to bind. Then removed the ones that limited travel until it was high enough. I didn't want them all out since it would be loose and harder to get back into position.

I'm trying to remember all that is involved but this was a couple years ago.

sixfiveoh
06-05-2008, 11:15 AM
Ah okay I see. Glad to see someone else ghetto-rigged this install as well... When I get home, the brackets for the subframe are coming up and I'll loosen the nuts of the engine mounts slowly and raise it by the bellhousing until I have enough clearance for the pan.

Thinking out loud helps me [:D]

t1demont1
06-05-2008, 05:59 PM
What i did was this:
take end off:
http://a986.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/95/l_b405555e95152fc0bc109a3c1ebddd51.jpg
Loosen the subframe
loosen the motor and tranny mounts
I used a bottle jack and a 2x4 under the tranny to jack the motor up to gain clearance to all the pia bolts.
remove the oil pan and you have this
http://a522.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/104/l_074ce55bf415a9cf733e3f5ff6674279.jpg
I used that rtv gasket shizz, but you can use that or a new gasket.
Install in reverse, and enjoy your cars ability to hold oil.

t1demont1
06-05-2008, 06:04 PM
oh yes, swivels and extensions are your best friend.

sixfiveoh
06-05-2008, 07:27 PM
I don't understand whats going on. I unbolted those brackets from the subframe, which are attached directly to the 2 motor mounts, right? I unbolt the front motor mount, the one that has the snub mount in it, jack it up from the bellhousing, and it goes up from the front where the snub mount mount was detached, but once it hits a certain point, the whole car starts coming up.

I loosened the bolts on the bottom of the motor mounts. I haven't loosened the tranny mount yet however. Is this what's causing it to still not come free?

ExpLlclT
06-05-2008, 07:27 PM
If I do drop the subframe, should I mark where it sits from side to side or forward to back? Or both?

everywhere those ******s move trust me

onemoremile
06-05-2008, 07:55 PM
If you are lifting it at the transmission bellhousing then you have to loosen the transmission mounts.

t1demont1
06-05-2008, 08:10 PM
yup, your lifting on the tranny mounts now.

sixfiveoh
06-05-2008, 08:49 PM
Damn so I was lifting it and loosening bit by bit and I loosened a bolt on the tranny mount too much and the bolt popped loose. Thats gonna be interesting trying to get it back together. Anyways, these bolts are a fucking PITA. What about the two that are in between the tranny and oilpan, the flywheel is in the way. How do I go about getting those?

sixfiveoh
06-05-2008, 09:52 PM
Anybody? How do I move the flywheel so I can get to those two bolts?

im sofa king
06-05-2008, 10:23 PM
I've been here before... To the best of my memory, to get to those two bolts just turn the flywheel, there are 2 reliefs cut into the flywheel. Turn the crank at the crank pulley with a socket until those cut outs line up and you can get to those two bolts. Sorry if this info is incorrect, I work on bmw's all day every day but i've gotten down and dirty on my own b5 a few times

t1demont1
06-05-2008, 10:43 PM
Yeah, from my memory there are relief cuts in the flywheel

317ssayzarc
06-06-2008, 04:38 AM
youre not done yet? [:p]

sixfiveoh
06-06-2008, 10:39 AM
youre not done yet? [:p]

Lol. Sadly, no. We've basically got the oil pan off, but it's getting stuck on the subframe on the way out. So I think we're about to completely drop the subframe all together, although I know this isn't necessary since you guys have done it without that, my friend is like insisting.

Also, what's this?


http://a522.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/104/l_074ce55bf415a9cf733e3f5ff6674279.jpg

The black thing? When we were trying to pull the oil pan out we kindof cracked and chipped that a little bit. Should I try and get a new one from the dealership or what is it?

Nebone
06-06-2008, 10:41 AM
You will need a thin allen wrench for those bolts with a ball end like so:

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/ProductImages/300/633010150382147841ALLENSET.jpg

t1demont1
06-06-2008, 11:09 AM
I think its just a splash guard, dont quote me on that though. That oil pan was a pain in the ass to get out though, i belive i used a 2x4 or jack handle to pry between the subframe and the tranny and thats how i gained all the clearence i needed.

onemoremile
06-06-2008, 11:40 AM
The black thing is a windage tray and it is important to keep the oil in the pan and off the crank.

The pan is a bitch but it will come out. I wiggled it around forever before it popped out.

sixfiveoh
06-06-2008, 05:36 PM
SUCCESS!

Finally, skipped work today and got it done. Thanks for all the help guys. She's leaking a little little bit of oil, but I'm hoping its just excess from the old oil filter that spilled all over the subframe, as its a little dark. Haven't driven it yet, but I should know if it's leaking or not by tomorrow.