A rant about MT synchros.

[INTEGRATION]

I've noticed this a while ago but I feel like doing a pointless rant about it now.

Ever noticed that sequential shifts... both upshifts and rev-matching downshifts. They gears sync together much more smoothly when you turn the A/C on. If you turn the A/C off the gears don't sync together as smoothly. Now the point about my b*tching and whining is because as a very performance-oriented enthusiast, I am very aware and sensitive to power delivery variations with the A/C on, A/C set on Econ and with A/C off. Since I live in sunny SoCal and next to the ocean (where there is absolutely no reason to use A/C in the first place except to waste gas) I'm slightly irritated that my car gives poor performance feedback when A/C settings are set in "optimal performance" mode. I've also noticed that this is particularly relevant in 2nd gear to 3rd gear shifts while I'm doing hard cornering at a corner apex/corner exit. Under those conditions, any attempt at "quick shifting" (and even shifting normally sometimes!) results in a miss-shift at least 40% of the time. That's a very consistent problem. And I fully understand that our car was designed to for people to always leave the A/C on, no matter what!

Blah Blah Blah, rant rant rant.

The A4 was never intended to be a "true performance car" (I'm basing this "assumption" of our car against a 997 GT3RS that I got to toy around with recently). And I'm not happy with this matter. But it's ok, Audi won't do a thing about it because I am that 1/x,xxx,xxx owner that actually cares about crap like this. And it's ok because I'll most likely upgrade to something that suits my tastes better in a few years.

Thank you for allowing me to waste a few good minutes of your lives, have a good night/nice day [:D]

[Louis J.]

Interesting. I took my car to the dealer for service last week and noticed that the gears were not as smooth as when I took the car in. I even called the dealer to complain and find out if they'd serviced the box. It was cold when I picked it up so I didn't notice that they'd turned the A/C off (which I've been running ever since I got the car) until two days later when I turned the A/C back on and I coincidentally noticed my syncro problem magically went away. The boxes in these cars are not the smoothest and certainly not "performance oriented" but I guess I'm lucky to be coming from other cars with temperamental syncros so I'm used to it.

[TonyD]

I hate synchros.

[INTEGRATION]

^ exactly! Even before I bought this car I had a "friendly/half-hearted" warning that German cars are designed/engineered to be very... precise, very "exact". Just like how German people are, very...precise people, especially their train schedules. I never expected the transmission synchros to be like this also but it's all part of the experience!

I wrote this rant as a half-hearted joke with no expectations for a fix or wish for compromise from Audi in any matter. This theory occurred to me one day when I while driving in traffic and I ended up analyzing the car's performance (in my head) under different scenarios with different amounts/kinds of load. And it only makes sense that the synchos are designed to work optimally under a "heavier" load of the underdrive pulley with the A/C on. (gotta hand it to these Germans! They even thought about the larger masses of people that always leave the A/C on no matter what! And developing a comfortable drive for them in those conditions!)

I'm just trying to find an excuse to use up all my brain power because I don't feel like ranting on my "global economics" paper that's due tomorrow.

[TonyD]

My solution to fixing my 3rd gear synchro is just getting a short shifter lol. I'm too lazy and unwilling to pay 800 dollars or whatever to fix it.

[Louis J.]

Well, 90% of my cars have been German and they all have temperamental synchros. I've had eight Porsches, seven of which have been air cooled and the synchros on those cars are truly "special". The SCs and early Carrera's pre G50 box are the worst. It's a cake walk compared to driving the A4 and that experience is helpful in fast-shifting the A4. It just boils down to getting a "feel" for when the synchros like to engage and not forcing it into gear. Kinda like handling a woman. [;)]

[INTEGRATION]

My solution to fixing my 3rd gear synchro is just getting a short shifter lol. I'm too lazy and unwilling to pay 800 dollars or whatever to fix it.

^ I dunno if that will fix it haha. Technically with a short-shifter, you would actually have to slow the speed of your shifts down and therefore take a longer time to shift. Otherwise you're forcing it into gear and that accelerates wear even faster.

But who knows, maybe a good engineer out there made a short shifter where the time duration of shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear would be the same as that of the OEM shifter and somehow allow it sync better? I'd go more into detail, but this is a really fat chance and I really gotta save some brain power and get back to working on my research paper :(

[INTEGRATION]

Well, 90% of my cars have been German and they all have temperamental synchros. I've had eight Porsches, seven of which have been air cooled and the synchros on those cars are truly "special". The SCs and early Carrera's pre G50 box are the worst. It's a cake walk compared to driving the A4 and that experience is helpful in fast-shifting the A4. It just boils down to getting a "feel" for when the synchros like to engage and not forcing it into gear. Kinda like handling a woman. [;)]

^ Dude. You have no idea. I know EXACTLY what you mean:
http://www.integration-r.com/images/meinporsche.jpg

^ Sold last year :(

[Grassmonkey]

With the power consumption of the A/C wont the revs fall quicker which means when you shift the revs will be matched closer then when the is A/C off. With closer matched revs its easier on the syncs. Hell if they're matched perfect no need to use the syncs.

I really dont like how long it takes for the revs to fall when shifting. Thats the problem with Quattro, the heavy flywheel to make sure it doesnt stall when pulling away.

My 2nd gear is the hardest to get into. Its just when normal driving it takes soo long to be able to change from 1st to 2nd without upseting the box or getting a leap cause of the high revs.

And I know Audi/VW can make a decent box. The A3 8L I had before had a better box than in the DTM.
Its the B6/B7 generation, including all VW products of that time period which have less than good gearboxes.

[Louis J.]

^ Dude. You have no idea. I know EXACTLY what you mean:
http://www.integration-r.com/images/meinporsche.jpg

^ Sold last year :(

Great taste...my first of four 993s...

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/124_2463RL.JPG

[davis449]

To add to your rant, I hate how the clutch engagement changes when the A\C is on. I do notice 3rd's easier to get into with the A\C on, but the clutch gets more difficult. I rev, let the clutch out and almost stall. I have to rev higher when the A\C's on. Freakin' annoying.

[AudiWxGuy]

To teoll you guys the truth, I haven't really noticed it much. Maybe now I will though...Thanks a lot!

[johntesi]

I have never been satisfied with any part of this gearbox. Shifts suck, I can't always get into first gear on the first (or second or third!) try, and the clutch takeup is erratic at best. I feel you. I haven't noticed anything AC specific as turning off the AC for more than 5 minutes at a time in Texas sun is not a good plan. When I turn it off for spirited driving, I'm shifting so hard and driving so fast I haven't noticed.. I'll sweat it out and see if this is true now that you mention it.

[ABanT]

I love BMW gearboxes. Everything is perfect. My old e36 was much easier to drive.

[4ringsinLA]

to the OP, I know exactly what you mean. I thought I was being paranoid but good to know that others feel the same way

[AudiWxGuy]

I have never been satisfied with any part of this gearbox. Shifts suck, I can't always get into first gear on the first (or second or third!) try, and the clutch takeup is erratic at best. I feel you. I haven't noticed anything AC specific as turning off the AC for more than 5 minutes at a time in Texas sun is not a good plan. When I turn it off for spirited driving, I'm shifting so hard and driving so fast I haven't noticed.. I'll sweat it out and see if this is true now that you mention it.

I have never had a problem getting into any gear in this car. I think the gearbox is fine....

[scoobycarolan]

hate it to death. I'm contantly worried its gonna crap out and I only have 4000 miles!

[AudiWxGuy]

Riiiiight. You buy a 35,000 car and your transmission is going to at 4000 miles......It ain't the transmission that causes wear on itself, it's got a lot to do with how it's driven. Plus, that short throw shifter you have doesn't do anything good for those synchros. In fact, I'm sure it's bad for them...

[INTEGRATION]

Riiiiight. You buy a 35,000 car and your transmission is going to at 4000 miles......It ain't the transmission that causes wear on itself, it's got a lot to do with how it's driven. Plus, that short throw shifter you have doesn't do anything good for those synchros. In fact, I'm sure it's bad for them...

As mentioned before, it took some analyzing for me to see where "ze Germans" were trying to be precise in their engineering. In this case "ze Germans" are trying to prevent me from having fun and forcing me to consume more gas than I want to by giving me "unhappiness" in driving feedback.

I've used short shifters in previous cars before and I've noticed a trend of dead synchros and dying transmission... makes a lot of sense! Unfortunately not many people on this forum take the time to understand the technicalities behind it and automatically start bashing the educated people lol. (You can search my previous posts in short-shifter threads for evidence of this!)

[Zebman]

Yeah, the heavy flywheel in this car hasn't really stopped me from stalling. I hate the rev hang! It is such a long fall down to idle, surely it has to be partly electronic, i.e. the computer slowing the descent. I'd like to think it could be changed, possibly.

[AudiWxGuy]

Dude...Since I've had my car I can count the number of times I've stalled on one hand, and most of them were when I first got the car and wasn't used to the friction point yet....If you know how to drive a standard you should maybe stall once a year....maybe.

[dreamcar=rs4]

have any of you guys installed high performance clutches?

[gyroscope]

I find the clutch undrivable in heavy stop and go traffic. It's just too light and the throw feels like it was designed for someone who weigh's 100-150 pounds. Compared to the clutch in my 02 Jetta 1.8T it's just a really strange feeling. The gear transitions are smooth during highway driving, but as soon you have to keep shifting or depressing the clutch, the gearbox gets very tempermental. That combined with how uncomfortable the seats are, and it makes we wonder why I didn't opt for an S4.

[4ringsinLA]

I find the clutch undrivable in heavy stop and go traffic. It's just too light and the throw feels like it was designed for someone who weigh's 100-150 pounds. Compared to the clutch in my 02 Jetta 1.8T it's just a really strange feeling. The gear transitions are smooth during highway driving, but as soon you have to keep shifting or depressing the clutch, the gearbox gets very tempermental. That combined with how uncomfortable the seats are, and it makes we wonder why I didn't opt for an S4.

^word.

[AudiWxGuy]

I find the clutch undrivable in heavy stop and go traffic. It's just too light and the throw feels like it was designed for someone who weigh's 100-150 pounds. Compared to the clutch in my 02 Jetta 1.8T it's just a really strange feeling. The gear transitions are smooth during highway driving, but as soon you have to keep shifting or depressing the clutch, the gearbox gets very tempermental. That combined with how uncomfortable the seats are, and it makes we wonder why I didn't opt for an S4.

I don't know bro....when I have to do lots of shifting I can drive the car pretty smooth. You know how to rev match? That makes downshifiting much, much smoother. I can go from 5th to 3rd without feeling anything....You know how to rev match? That helps when having to downshift a lot in traffic. However, you've gotta do it a bunch to know how much gas you need to give the car to shift down smoothly. After a while, you just a get a feel for how much gas you'll need to give to get a smooth transition to whatever gear your moving to.

[Grassmonkey]

The gearboxes in the A4 and S4 are the same, and most likely the same as in the RS4 however it might have different ratio's, just to be different.

The box just doesnt like to be rushed, and even though a short shifter gives better 'feel' you cant really shift any faster with it cause of the long revolution drop time.

[AudiWxGuy]

The gearboxes in the A4 and S4 are the same, and most likely the same as in the RS4 however it might have different ratio's, just to be different.


You're right. Believe it or not, the A4 does 80 at a significantlly lower RPM than the RS4.

[INTEGRATION]

I agree, based on driving a RS4- the feedback alone tells me that it's a whole different gearbox.

I gotta admit- the clutch on our car isn't great either. But I'm surprised how much abuse mine has taken already.

[gyroscope]

I don't know bro....when I have to do lots of shifting I can drive the car pretty smooth. You know how to rev match? That makes downshifiting much, much smoother. I can go from 5th to 3rd without feeling anything....You know how to rev match? That helps when having to downshift a lot in traffic. However, you've gotta do it a bunch to know how much gas you need to give the car to shift down smoothly. After a while, you just a get a feel for how much gas you'll need to give to get a smooth transition to whatever gear your moving to.

Yeah, I know how to rev match, but I usually have to hit at least 100-150 traffic lights per day and usually drop it in neutral long before a stop to conserve fuel (93 octane is $4.45 a gallon here). The thing that I'm suprised about is that a VW is twice as comfortable to drive. I dislike driving this B& to point that I've only put 10k on it in years.

[lnferno]

Integration -- have you tried installing a snub mount? I know it's not going to "solve" the synchro problem, but it does help considerably with the smoothness of the shifts. For $40, it's a pretty cheap mod that significantly helps IMO.

[smcgann]

I have not driven the MT A4 but every other car I have had for sport was. I had a simular sounding problem with a 01 honda civic so I tried the Royal Purple Syncromesh since I had been so happy with their motor oil and it was a night and day difference. The cars revs were quieter and the shift were very smooth.

As for short shifters, I have had a 300zx and a Z06 Vet that I have used them on. It feels harsher for a few reasons. You have less leverage (typically) and after market shifters often have less dampening material. Potentially you might hear about more damage to vehicles with short shifters because of the type of driver that typically uses them and the increased temptation to slam gears with the short shifter. Additionally some like the one on my Z06 can potentially be installed incorrectly affecting how the gears seat.

[AudiA4_20T]

theres an easy solution for this, its called getting a clutch and doing a fluid change