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View Full Version : looking for opinions. compressor maps involved.



k0mpresd
04-16-2008, 07:33 PM
so i think i calculated this right. i used 14.5 for atmospheric pressure since the dyno is <400ft above sea level.

assuming i did the below correct, would a 60-1 be a bad choice? i really like the 30r. [cool]

20psi = 2.38
30psi = 3.07

i used (psi+14.5)/14.5 as the equation.

60-1 flows ~26-64lbs/min @ 20psi
30r flows ~31-52lbs @ 30psi and ~21-52/lbs @ 20psi

doesnt look like the 60-1 would even make it to 29psi though. haha

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/Fig9.gif

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/GT3076R_700382_12_comp_e.gif

bueller?

mike-2ptzero
04-16-2008, 07:43 PM
Do you plan on runnig that much boost? You need to figure out what the max boost will be that you plan on running to figure out what turbo you want to run. What is wrong with the 30r you have?

k0mpresd
04-16-2008, 07:45 PM
i run 20psi daily. highest ive ever gone on the motor is prob 24psi. id go 30psi but i didnt really build it w/ that in mind.

nothing technically is wrong w/ the 30r. i would just like something different. and have a chance @ a t3/60-1 on the cheap.

bernB5
04-16-2008, 07:55 PM
you're gonna miss your dbb 30r terribly.
if you're gonna change, get a 35rst from arnold @ pag parts. that'll be my next turbo

k0mpresd
04-16-2008, 07:56 PM
$$$$$. something im lacking.

mike-2ptzero
04-16-2008, 07:59 PM
What size a/r is the T3-60-1 that you can get cheap?

k0mpresd
04-16-2008, 08:00 PM
.63. w/ t04s cover. non-ported.

317ssayzarc
04-16-2008, 08:03 PM
you're gonna miss your dbb 30r terribly.
if you're gonna change, get a 35rst from arnold @ pag parts. that'll be my next turbo

bern do you have any idea how much $$$$ that thing costs? we are talking upwards of 1500 lol... you can say its one out of 20 or so though, guess thats priceless [:D]

Poopie
04-16-2008, 08:07 PM
i want a 30r....i'm upgrading in the summer.

bernB5
04-16-2008, 08:09 PM
bern do you have any idea how much $$$$ that thing costs? we are talking upwards of 1500 lol... you can say its one out of 20 or so though, guess thats priceless [:D]

haha, had no idea.. ok, so 60-1 it is? lol

right now, I just want my car up and running again with no issues. but my ultimate goal is a 2.0 with that rst, cams and intake mani.. one day[wrench]

k0mpresd
04-16-2008, 08:12 PM
steve soda made 680fwhp on c16 and 30+psi btw. 62-1 compressor...bern, maybe it should be 62-1 [;)] [:p]

bernB5
04-16-2008, 08:35 PM
i dunno man.. Maybe it's just me, but I couldn't deal with that much lag on my DD.. If I was making a drag-car, no doubt.. BUT, I guess I'm spoiled, because I fell in love with my last car ('03 Evo).. I loved hitting boost around 4k, revving the shit out of it and having a good amount of power all around, but definitely not enough power on the stock turbo, I would have upgraded eventually, but I'm talking about all around feel..

The only way I'd uprde turbos now is if:
-it could spool as fast as my 30r and make more power (by the way, when did you buy your 30r? you know what number it is? mine is a -12)
-if I built a 2.0
-or if it was free lol

mike-2ptzero
04-16-2008, 08:37 PM
i dunno man.. Maybe it's just me, but I couldn't deal with that much lag on my DD.. If I was making a drag-car, no doubt.. BUT, I guess I'm spoiled, because I fell in love with my last car ('03 Evo).. I loved hitting boost around 4k, revving the shit out of it and having a good amount of power all around, but definitely not enough power on the stock turbo, I would have upgraded eventually, but I'm talking about all around feel..

The only way I'd uprde turbos now is if:
-it could spool as fast as my 30r and make more power (by the way, when did you buy your 30r? you know what number it is? mine is a -12)
-if I built a 2.0
-or if it was free lol


Were do you hit full boost? I watched your video and the tach really didn't start moving quickly till after 5k rpms but that might be from being in a very low gear.

k0mpresd
04-16-2008, 08:39 PM
i installed the 30r 6/25/06.

it is a -13 cartridge.

bernB5
04-16-2008, 08:49 PM
Were do you hit full boost? I watched your video and the tach really didn't start moving quickly till after 5k rpms but that might be from being in a very low gear.

like I said in the other thread.. that vid is seriously just a very slow, relaxed pull.. I didn't hold out first at all and only began to floor it around 4800. then once i shifted I slowly got back on the throttle, that was also still on the rough tune, runninch rich with conservative timing..

Before I got a 30r everyone said it was pretty laggy, but it really surprised me on my car, as well as people who ride in it, it feels only a TINY bit laggier than the 3071 .63 I had on my gti.
I'll see how it is on the new Tapp software soon..

317ssayzarc
04-16-2008, 09:08 PM
haha, had no idea.. ok, so 60-1 it is? lol

right now, I just want my car up and running again with no issues. but my ultimate goal is a 2.0 with that rst, cams and intake mani.. one day[wrench]

a man can dream right? [:D]

mike-2ptzero
04-16-2008, 09:12 PM
like I said in the other thread.. that vid is seriously just a very slow, relaxed pull.. I didn't hold out first at all and only began to floor it around 4800. then once i shifted I slowly got back on the throttle, that was also still on the rough tune, runninch rich with conservative timing..

Before I got a 30r everyone said it was pretty laggy, but it really surprised me on my car, as well as people who ride in it, it feels only a TINY bit laggier than the 3071 .63 I had on my gti.
I'll see how it is on the new Tapp software soon..

Its cool, everyone says my GT35r on my 2033cc has major lag but yet still is one of the quicker times for CAPS data even though it is well below its power band for most of the run.

bernB5
04-16-2008, 09:24 PM
i see these CAPS times so often, never saw them in the vw crowd.. WTF is CAPS and why is it important?
and k0mpressed, sorry for the threadjack, follow your heart dude. I say stick with the 30r til you find something you'd really be happy with.. i just watched some vids of 60-1's, even on a 12v vr, 12psi wasn't until around 4k.. Now, subtract 2 cylinders and 1 liter of displacement, and imagine what it'd be like to spool the same turbo haha

Poopie
04-16-2008, 10:06 PM
caps is the time it takes a b5 1.8t to go from 3600 rpm to 6500 rpm in third gear. maxspeed made a couple calculating programs for different set ups. Its more like another tuning tool to find out where you stand and to compare other set ups.

mike-2ptzero
04-16-2008, 10:19 PM
caps is the time it takes a b5 1.8t to go from 3600 rpm to 6500 rpm in third gear. maxspeed made a couple calculating programs for different set ups. Its more like another tuning tool to find out where you stand and to compare other set ups.


Yeah, those times are good for k03-BT setups, but with a BAT setup its best to use a rpm range that is a bit higher which I think maxspeed did make one for the BAT setups. Just doesn't help to test 3600-6500 on setups that make peak hp at 7500+ and rev to 8500.[>_<]

Eurotuned_A4
04-16-2008, 10:29 PM
what is this gt35rst you guys mention? how is it different from a gt35r?

Wizard-of-OD
04-17-2008, 02:21 AM
steve soda made 680fwhp on c16 and 30+psi btw. 62-1 compressor...bern, maybe it should be 62-1 [;)] [:p]
Steve Soda made shit....his engine never ran.He parted it out 1 week after installing the 034efi.Made us all look like idiots....especially me since I faught tooth and nail to see his car run.That 680whp Dyno he posted was from a Supra in Florida.Where do you think the whole joke about Florida dyno's came from?When I called him on it he went offline only to resurface 3 years later with a MKV.It was not a fun scenario....[/end rant]

FWIW the only person that held 500whp+ until the big T67R craze was Mike Hood and Joel Brown and neither of them were MKIV's.
Ed Wosely & Co. came 2 years after....

As for the compressor maps,follow what I did on page 4 of my thread.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3335766&page=4

pic your desired boost and work backwards.You do not need a BB turbocharger when a generic Journal bearing will do your job fine.400-600 rpm's increased lag?Up the displacement or something....you wont even notice it.

Don Supreme
04-17-2008, 05:02 AM
i run 20psi daily. highest ive ever gone on the motor is prob 24psi. id go 30psi but i didnt really build it w/ that in mind.

nothing technically is wrong w/ the 30r. i would just like something different. and have a chance @ a t3/60-1 on the cheap.

What would you have done differently for 30 psi?

k0mpresd
04-17-2008, 05:52 AM
Steve Soda made shit....his engine never ran.He parted it out 1 week after installing the 034efi.Made us all look like idiots....especially me since I faught tooth and nail to see his car run.That 680whp Dyno he posted was from a Supra in Florida.Where do you think the whole joke about Florida dyno's came from?When I called him on it he went offline only to resurface 3 years later with a MKV.It was not a fun scenario....[/end rant]
ha ! thats crazy. i knew you werent happy w/ him but i never knew why. circle jerk as you put it. [;)] he even had the thread about him selling it, the owner driving it to new orleans, and how he must be able to build a motor after all since it made it 1k miles. or something along those lines. and he did surface randomly. he had that tt after all.

but either way. wow. i never knew all that. i can remember the florida dyno thing as far back as when i first bought a 1.8t though.

What would you have done differently for 30 psi?
i dont know. maybe t-bolt clamps [:p] its just all the times ive put things together or on the car, i never envisioned jamming 30+psi boost to all of it.

it would prob hold it. but i built it w/ the intentions of driving it everyday w/ the ability to beat the shit out of it when i felt like it.

but 30psi on the 3076 map does look like a nice # when you draw the line across. [cool]

i just watched some vids of 60-1's, even on a 12v vr, 12psi wasn't until around 4k.. Now, subtract 2 cylinders and 1 liter of displacement, and imagine what it'd be like to spool the same turbo haha
and my aeb head w/ cams will flow tons more air than those old junk 12v heads.

we had a vr6t come dyno. local guy. 12v w/ a 57 trim t3/t04e. his spool was the same if not worse than when i had a 57 trim on my motor. and my set up has progressed tons since those days.

and for reference. my gt30r @ 1psi more boost put down ~20whp more than his vrt. hes fwd. im awd (obviously [:)]).

^ and maybe that isnt the correct way of looking @ it. im sure someone will correct me if im wrong.

mike-2ptzero
04-17-2008, 07:18 AM
Well if you can get the 60-1 cheap just throw it on the car and on the dyno. If you dont like the #'s or how it feels just throw the GT3076r back on and sell the 60-1 to someone else or make a door stop of it.[>_<]

k0mpresd
04-17-2008, 07:37 AM
thats basically what i was thinking.

do it and if it sucks, just take it back off.

mike-2ptzero
04-17-2008, 07:40 AM
thats basically what i was thinking.

do it and if it sucks, just take it back off.

Exactly what I would do, only one way to find out if something works and that is just do it.

Don Supreme
04-17-2008, 07:42 AM
Cheaper to keep her............

k0mpresd
04-17-2008, 07:44 AM
Cheaper to keep her............
and jam 30psi to it right? [:p]

Don Supreme
04-17-2008, 07:52 AM
^ Damn right.

I know I plan on running 30 psi when I am back on the road (If I can fix the SURGING issue).... Probably going to lift the head again .... I hope not.

94jedi
04-17-2008, 08:18 AM
thats basically what i was thinking.

do it and if it sucks, just take it back off.

that's what I would suggest. I'm not as well versed on turbos as you guys are but I say do it and have fun with it. if that 60-1 is that good of a deal, just do it and see what you get. You wouldn't have to make many changes would you? same mani, maybe a different TIP but its minimal. What EBC do you have? run a 30psi tune for fun and a 20psi tune for DD duty lol.

maxspeed
04-17-2008, 08:25 AM
Cheaper to keep her............

haha, wow, im listening to that song right now...

bernB5
04-17-2008, 08:44 AM
that's what I would suggest. I'm not as well versed on turbos as you guys are but I say do it and have fun with it. if that 60-1 is that good of a deal, just do it and see what you get. You wouldn't have to make many changes would you? same mani, maybe a different TIP but its minimal. What EBC do you have? run a 30psi tune for fun and a 20psi tune for DD duty lol.

well he'd have to block off his coolant lines because the 60-1 isn't watercooled, only oil cooled.. No big deal to do that though.

Do it, maybe you'll like it. try to get it with a .48 hotside, it'd probably be fun as hell

94jedi
04-17-2008, 08:46 AM
well he'd have to block off his coolant lines because the 60-1 isn't watercooled, only oil cooled.. No big deal to do that though.

Do it, maybe you'll like it. try to get it with a .48 hotside, it'd probably be fun as hell

right...forgot that same as my 50 trim. IIRC, bitterchild just ran a recirc hose back in instead of blocking it off. I remember for sure though as I wasn't there when he did it.

the .48 a/r on my 50 trim was a blast but it left me wanting more up top. of course, this is another animal all together lol

AB18
04-17-2008, 08:48 AM
I don't know about the rest of you guys, but id MUCH rather run a smaller turbo with high boost then a bigger turbo with 12 to 16psi. Besides, a 30r is capable of a ton, if i were you, id spend the cash burning in your pocket for a better tune + more boost.

k0mpresd
04-17-2008, 08:51 AM
tune is free son. me7 tools @ work [;)]

and who said anything about a big turbo @ low boost? [rolleyes] 20psi daily is what i run.

bernB5
04-17-2008, 09:19 AM
tune is free son. me7 tools @ work [;)]

and who said anything about a big turbo @ low boost? [rolleyes] 20psi daily is what i run.

20 psi is pretty low. what's done to your block? I'm running stock pistons with stock rings that have 130k on them and Scat Rods.. 165 compression in all 4 cylinders, I run 24-25 daily and I'll be running whatever the turbo maxes out on c16.. you can do it!

I felt a HUGE difference when going from 19psi to 24..

k0mpresd
04-17-2008, 09:22 AM
20psi is moderate i think. not 12-16 like dude above said. thats crazy.

block has scat rods. aeb head with 3651 cat cams.

call me crazy but i dont see the need to run 24 psi daily.

Don Supreme
04-17-2008, 09:23 AM
165 is kind of low....

Don Supreme
04-17-2008, 09:23 AM
20psi is moderate i think. not 12-16 like dude above said. thats crazy.

block has scat rods. aeb head with 3651 cat cams.

call me crazy but i dont see the need to run 24 psi daily.

24 psi daily sounds about right to me..........

These days you have evos running 30 psi on straight pump gas (no meth or anything) making anywhere from 530 awhp to 600 + AWHP...

k0mpresd
04-17-2008, 09:28 AM
we were talking yesterday about adding some fuel to the file. maybe drop timing. and up the boost some on the daily tune.

i dont know. id like to. but i also think about all the wear and tear jamming boost to it everyday. i mean, the car is quick at 20. and gas prices arent going down. and i drive a lot.

30psi on pump is a nuts. haha

bernB5
04-17-2008, 09:36 AM
yeah, 165 is pretty low. Which is why the next thing I'm doing will be either making it a 2.0 or at least throwing some 83mm wiseco/je pistons in and increasing it to almost a 1.9 I guess.

AudiA4_20T
04-17-2008, 09:50 AM
^ Damn right.

I know I plan on running 30 psi when I am back on the road (If I can fix the SURGING issue).... Probably going to lift the head again .... I hope not.

I hope to be running that with meth on pump gas when my setup is done (obviously not all the time)

94jedi
04-17-2008, 11:52 AM
yeah, 165 is pretty low. Which is why the next thing I'm doing will be either making it a 2.0 or at least throwing some 83mm wiseco/je pistons in and increasing it to almost a 1.9 I guess.
yea 165 is low but more importantly the compression across all cyl's is consistent.

ModifiedA4
04-17-2008, 12:03 PM
WTF is CAPS and why is it important?

CAPS was developed 5 or 6 years ago by mmart from the S4 FATS.


Creating A4 PPerformance Solutions
The CAPS system is designed to allow VW/Audi B5 1.8t drivers to subjectively measure their vehicles performance using a universal test. The CAPS data collection method is modeled after the FATS system used by B5 S4 drivers. All the CAPS system requires is a VAG-COM (unregistered or registered) and a flat stretch of road. The data will be posted to the database so participants can gauge performance compared to their enthusiast peers.

CAPS faq (http://www.modifieda4.com/web/caps/faq.html)

I run the CAPS database now, the database link is in my sig.