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Don Supreme
04-09-2008, 04:15 PM
I am curious.

Given my trap speed (119.77), typical 1/4 mile A4 performance.... What do you think my AWHP numbers might be?

gotaudi
04-09-2008, 04:22 PM
~340-360AWHP is my guess

spxxx
04-09-2008, 04:42 PM
what is your setup?

Don Supreme
04-09-2008, 04:42 PM
^ Personally the car feels around that range, but the numbers don't match.

I have seen 400 AWHP audi's trap around 114 or so... and most 28 series making 300 -330 awhp trap around 108-109... You need more than 30 AWHP to trap 10 MPH higher.

Poopie
04-09-2008, 04:52 PM
7 unicornpower.

gotaudi
04-09-2008, 05:04 PM
7 unicornpower.


LOL [>_<]

gotaudi
04-09-2008, 05:08 PM
^ Personally the car feels around that range, but the numbers don't match.

I have seen 400 AWHP audi's trap around 114 or so... and most 28 series making 300 -330 awhp trap around 108-109... You need more than 30 AWHP to trap 10 MPH higher.

A Stage 3 S4 will put around 400WHP down, they weigh about 300Lbs more, and will do what you do in the 1/4 mile on pump (i think) so for you to get the same time with less wieght your Hp would be less. Just go get it dynoed.

bernB5
04-09-2008, 05:09 PM
how much boost were you running?

bassed
04-09-2008, 05:19 PM
7 unicornpower.

.1 Noobercorns


I'm thinking about 360ish

Solaris
04-09-2008, 05:26 PM
See what this calculator (http://www.dragtimes.com/horsepower-et-trap-speed-calculator.php) on dragtimes.com says

Don Supreme
04-09-2008, 05:43 PM
A Stage 3 S4 will put around 400WHP down, they weigh about 300Lbs more, and will do what you do in the 1/4 mile on pump (i think) so for you to get the same time with less wieght your Hp would be less. Just go get it dynoed.

I will never know, because we are about to pull the head off and when it goes back on............... well you can guess the rest.

gotaudi
04-09-2008, 05:48 PM
what are your plans for the head?

fred2ka4
04-09-2008, 05:48 PM
I will never know, because we are about to pull the head off and when it goes back on............... well you can guess the rest.

Well if you are about to pull the head off, then you should dyno the car because if you plan to do some head work You should want to see what the gains are.

Don Supreme
04-09-2008, 05:49 PM
.1 Noobercorns


I'm thinking about 360ish

You guys will see when you run your car @ the track.......

I have used those calculators and I just dont know. For example I used the calculator @ dragtimes.com and it said

Horsepower @ flywheel = 429.90 HP

So I figure 430 * .75 = 322 AWHP................... THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN TRAP ~120 MPH in this car with only 322 AWHP.

Don Supreme
04-09-2008, 05:59 PM
Well if you are about to pull the head off, then you should dyno the car because if you plan to do some head work You should want to see what the gains are.

no can do....

not pulling the head because I want to.

P.S. Can a mod please fix the title of this thread.

Poopie
04-09-2008, 06:04 PM
you can change it yourself. Just double click the title box in the b5 forum page. I was gonna run this weekend but it looks like rain.

Solaris
04-09-2008, 06:04 PM
You guys will see when you run your car @ the track.......

I have used those calculators and I just dont know. For example I used the calculator @ dragtimes.com and it said

Horsepower @ flywheel = 429.90 HP

So I figure 430 * .75 = 322 AWHP................... THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN TRAP ~120 MPH in this car with only 322 AWHP.

I don't think the drivetrain loss % is constant for all levels of power, so it would be a little less for you. For instance, if a 200HP car makes 150AWHP, why would a 400HP car make 300AWHP while moving the same drivetrain? It should cost the same 50 or so HP.

Don Supreme
04-09-2008, 06:15 PM
you can change it yourself. Just double click the title box in the b5 forum page. I was gonna run this weekend but it looks like rain.

Thanks for the tip.

Dammit Poopie you need to do something!!!!!!!!!!!

But honestly what are you expecting?

Don Supreme
04-09-2008, 06:17 PM
I don't think the drivetrain loss % is constant for all levels of power, so it would be a little less for you. For instance, if a 200HP car makes 150AWHP, why would a 400HP car make 300AWHP while moving the same drivetrain? It should cost the same 50 or so HP.

The great debate...................

I took the best Audi A8 time from dragtimes and plugged it into their calc

12.6 @ 113.020
Weight = 3605

They estimate 381.19 HP ---------- Audi says the car makes 420+


You see what I mean?

CaSp3r9
04-09-2008, 06:17 PM
You guys will see when you run your car @ the track.......

I have used those calculators and I just dont know. For example I used the calculator @ dragtimes.com and it said

Horsepower @ flywheel = 429.90 HP

So I figure 430 * .75 = 322 AWHP................... THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN TRAP ~120 MPH in this car with only 322 AWHP.

That's if you're losing 25% of your power through the drive train, which I can pretty much guarantee is not the case. I believe that's for stock HP numbers and even then 25% is on the high side IIRC; I think it's around 23%). The more HP your car has, the less power you lose through Quattro, as a percentage - even though the number of horses(or unicorns) lost is greater.
I don't really think losing 107.5hp with Quattro is realistic at the 430hp mark. Instead, let's say you lose 18% through Quattro at the 430hp mark, which is 77.4hp. That puts you at 352.6awhp, which is more realistic.

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I probably am. I'm just going off what makes sense to me.

AudiA4_20T
04-09-2008, 06:19 PM
I think your not making anything because you need to get your car moving first [:D]

CaSp3r9
04-09-2008, 06:20 PM
I don't think the drivetrain loss % is constant for all levels of power, so it would be a little less for you. For instance, if a 200HP car makes 150AWHP, why would a 400HP car make 300AWHP while moving the same drivetrain? It should cost the same 50 or so HP.

You beat me to it! Glad to see I'm not the only one that believes this.

Poopie
04-09-2008, 06:23 PM
i would like to trap atleast 120mhp on race fuel which is about 400awhp. No clue on ET, maybe high 11's

CaSp3r9
04-09-2008, 06:30 PM
Mike needs to chime in, I remember him talking about this but it was a looong time ago.

Don Supreme
04-09-2008, 06:32 PM
You beat me to it! Glad to see I'm not the only one that believes this.

Lets not go down that road on this thread. We are talking about trap speed as it relates to HP in a Audi A4 (B5 or B6). I don't see 350AWHP trapping 120 in this heavy ass car.

Audi r8 makes 420 CHP and traps 113 mph.
04 gallardo, AWD, 500 HP, weighs less than an A4, traps 118 +.

CaSp3r9
04-09-2008, 06:40 PM
Lets not go down that road on this thread. We are talking about trap speed as it relates to HP in a Audi A4 (B5 or B6). I don't see 350AWHP trapping 120 in this heavy ass car.

Audi r8 makes 420 CHP and traps 113 mph.

What road? I think you misunderstood me... I was just saying I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks the percentage of power lost isn't constant at every HP level...

Or did you mean about Mike? I said that because I remember him having some valuable information about HP loss through the drive train at different HP levels. Trust me, I'm the last person to try and start any drama on here.

Poopie
04-09-2008, 06:57 PM
Well I an one to believes that it IS a constant %.

The drivetrain loss is from the drag coefficient from the moving parts. It is a multiplying FACTOR so in all power levels so it remains the same.

Don Supreme
04-09-2008, 07:03 PM
Ok this is for Poopie and for the trap speed to AWHP in an A4 discussion.


You'll be able to make more than 330whp on pump with the 3071R
With only 17psi I did 320awhp,25psi 415awhp on race gas.
I was being conservative only revving to 7200rpm & using lower boost than I usually do.


After my first spinned, I got another set of exprimental Cats (asymetric) that are pinned.
Used them once at the track ran 12.2@114 with a 1.9 60'
No dyno as yet.
Too much wheelspin.
It maybe better to get billets...


confirmed 400 AWHP and trap speed is < 115 .............................

Poopie
04-09-2008, 07:08 PM
dooohhh....thats ok. With the wheel spin and just an okay 60ft time and he still managed a low 12 run, 11's seems obtainable. Although his post a little ambiguous on what boost and such he ran at.

400 awhp with 23% DTL is still 512 hp at the crank.

Don Supreme
04-09-2008, 07:10 PM
^ I am not talking about ET......

Lots of things affect ET. I am sure you can run low 12s, but trapping 120 is another story.

Poopie
04-09-2008, 07:13 PM
so with all things said....you must be at like 430-440 whp mark right? Just hit the dyno. Plan to drive up in a month and we can all hit a dyno

CaSp3r9
04-09-2008, 07:16 PM
Well I an one to believes that it IS a constant %.

The drivetrain loss is from the drag coefficient from the moving parts. It is a multiplying FACTOR so in all power levels so it remains the same.

Yeah, I'm really not sure. I was just going off of what makes sense to me. It seems like the percent of power lost would stay constant but losing 100hp through the drive train at the 400hp mark doesn't make much sense to me, it seems like a lot.

I was kinda looking at it like a terminal velocity problem; an skydiver can only fall so fast, he doesn't keep accelerating for as long as he falls. Such that, you can only lose so much power through the drive train before it hits a plateau. If this is the case, the percentage of power lost would be inversely proportionate to the amount of hp you're making.

Now I REALLY wanna know the answer to this haha

Poopie
04-09-2008, 07:24 PM
well that is a bad example because it actually works agains you.

in both comparisons you have a force, gravitational and a combustion force. Both forces result in something increasing in velocity at an exponential rate. The opposite force is friction. You can say there is a point where there is so much friction at a certain level to stop HP from developing as well.

Don Supreme
04-09-2008, 07:25 PM
so with all things said....you must be at like 430-440 whp mark right? Just hit the dyno. Plan to drive up in a month and we can all hit a dyno

who knows.....

When I get everything wrapped up, I don't know if I even have enough injector to safely run on the dyno.

Poopie
04-09-2008, 07:26 PM
are you running 630s? I think you should be fine. Do some loggon on the way up. lol

Don Supreme
04-09-2008, 07:39 PM
are you running 630s? I think you should be fine. Do some loggon on the way up. lol

yeah - 630s @ 4 bar ( some say thats 730cc)

CaSp3r9
04-09-2008, 07:50 PM
well that is a bad example because it actually works agains you.

in both comparisons you have a force, gravitational and a combustion force. Both forces result in something increasing in velocity at an exponential rate. The opposite force is friction. You can say there is a point where there is so much friction at a certain level to stop HP from developing as well.

True, I see what you mean. I was looking at it differently which is prob why it doesn't work.

Poopie
04-09-2008, 07:54 PM
yeah - 630s @ 4 bar ( some say thats 730cc)

I think thats plenty of injector. I though 630s at 3 bar could support up to 500 whp on a 4cylinder engine.

Don Supreme
04-09-2008, 08:03 PM
I think thats plenty of injector. I though 630s at 3 bar could support up to 500 whp on a 4cylinder engine.

ahhhhhh, I have never seen anything like that.... maybe 500 chp - 550...


I think I have seen 480 FWHP, but that may have been 4 bar and I know it was on race.

Poopie
04-09-2008, 08:15 PM
hmmm i think you are right. 500chp sounds about right

an s4 with rs4/rs6 hybrids made a tad over 500whp on pump gas with 630s at 4 bar with 95% injector duty cycle.

317ssayzarc
04-09-2008, 08:23 PM
hmmm i think you are right. 500chp sounds about right

an s4 with rs4/rs6 hybrids made a tad over 500whp on pump gas with 630s at 4 bar with 95% injector duty cycle.

come on now poops, thats 6 injectors we are talking about!

Poopie
04-09-2008, 08:31 PM
exactly! 2 more injectors running 95% duty cycle only producing 500whp.

500whp on 4 cylinders with the same injectors is pushing it.

317ssayzarc
04-09-2008, 08:49 PM
i see i see... didnt know that was implied (doh!)

mike-2ptzero
04-09-2008, 08:54 PM
^ I am not talking about ET......

Lots of things affect ET. I am sure you can run low 12s, but trapping 120 is another story.

But a bad launch can cause a higher MPH with a slightly slower ET, but this usually happens because you are in a different part of the power band when going thru the traps.


Yeah, I'm really not sure. I was just going off of what makes sense to me. It seems like the percent of power lost would stay constant but losing 100hp through the drive train at the 400hp mark doesn't make much sense to me, it seems like a lot.

I was kinda looking at it like a terminal velocity problem; an skydiver can only fall so fast, he doesn't keep accelerating for as long as he falls. Such that, you can only lose so much power through the drive train before it hits a plateau. If this is the case, the percentage of power lost would be inversely proportionate to the amount of hp you're making.

Now I REALLY wanna know the answer to this haha

The % lost is pretty constant. Lucas engine dyno'd his setup to over 600chp and then when it was installed in the car he put it on a dyno which put down 460whp. This put the car exactly at the same 22% drive line loss as a stock powered A4.

If you produce more energy a contant about of it is loss, it doesn't just peak at a point. It also isn't a set # other wise a A4 with a blown turbo wouldn't drive at all. [>_<]

bernB5
04-09-2008, 09:58 PM
i say you're around 370ish..
on a side note, wtf is is the BAT club and why am I not a member?>

HotSauce
04-09-2008, 10:33 PM
Big Ass Turbo...

Do you have a BAT?

Poopie
04-09-2008, 10:36 PM
yes he does have one.

CaSp3r9
04-09-2008, 11:19 PM
Mike, thanks. I was kind of taking a shot in the dark with my analogy. It makes sense now though.

Anyone wanna help me out with becoming a member of the BAT club? Paypal donations accepted. PM me. [:D]

Solaris
04-10-2008, 06:07 AM
The % lost is pretty constant. Lucas engine dyno'd his setup to over 600chp and then when it was installed in the car he put it on a dyno which put down 460whp. This put the car exactly at the same 22% drive line loss as a stock powered A4.

If you produce more energy a contant about of it is loss, it doesn't just peak at a point. It also isn't a set # other wise a A4 with a blown turbo wouldn't drive at all. [>_<]

This is what I like to see, somebody proving it. I obviously don't know enough about the subject.

Don Supreme
04-10-2008, 06:16 AM
^ Its sad..... 600 HP is only 460 ish WHP - SAD...

A stock c6 Z06 probably puts down more RWHP than that (just a guess) and it only makes 505 CHP(claim).

Solaris
04-10-2008, 06:38 AM
^ It sad..... 600 HP is only 460 ish WHP - SAD...

A stock c6 Z06 probably puts down more RWHP than that (just a guess) and it only makes 505 (claim).

The most I've seen reported for a stock Z06 is around 470WHP

mike-2ptzero
04-10-2008, 07:41 AM
^ Its sad..... 600 HP is only 460 ish WHP - SAD...

A stock c6 Z06 probably puts down more RWHP than that (just a guess) and it only makes 505 CHP(claim).

Yes but then it also just sits there spinning its tires trying to put that power to the ground.[>_<]



i say you're around 370ish..
on a side note, wtf is is the BAT club and why am I not a member?>

Post up what you have under the hood.


If you want to join the Beta Alpha Tau Fraternity and are running a BT or BAT please feel free to do so on this thread on the B6 forum. (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=202506&page=3)

Don Supreme
04-10-2008, 07:55 AM
Yes but then it also just sits there spinning its tires trying to put that power to the ground.[>_<]




---- Those z06 get off the line very nicely, not your typical RWD car, tranny in the back, nuh?




Post up what you have under the hood.


If you want to join the Beta Alpha Tau Fraternity and are running a BT or BAT please feel free to do so on this thread on the B6 forum. (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=202506&page=3)

He has a 3076 (built aeb motor), he also ran an 034 IIc, but he just sold it.

bassed
04-10-2008, 08:05 AM
Don just take out the VAG and BUTT Dyno that way, its better than guessing based on what you trap since there are more variables involved with that.

Don Supreme
04-10-2008, 08:10 AM
^ trap speed is king...

Dynos lie.

Solaris
04-10-2008, 08:29 AM
---- Those z06 get off the line very nicely, not your typical RWD car, tranny in the back, nuh?


Yes, they have a transaxle.

Nebone
04-10-2008, 09:20 AM
I been recently writing a program calculating power required for rolling operation when reducing sheet metal thickness. From the equations I gathered, the drive train loss % is the same no matter what power is applied. The more power required, it will be reduced by that % due to friction coefficients of contact surfaces being constant.

bernB5
04-10-2008, 09:36 AM
exactly what mike said with bigger words...

juju4uofa
04-10-2008, 12:37 PM
No one ever considers that drivetrain loss does not remain constant at every rpm. As rpm increases friction increase (exponentially) due to changes in oil viscosity and thremal expansion. One of many reasons why IMO everyone should reference only wheel values.

Poopie
04-10-2008, 01:35 PM
also, differnent cars are more aerodynamic. a vette trapping 120 is not the same as an a4 trapping 120. The vette is sleek and slippery in the air. The a4 sucks...hence the reason i can get 7 mpg more when i'm drafting my friends trailer then what i normally get on the open road myself.

mike-2ptzero
04-10-2008, 01:44 PM
No one ever considers that drivetrain loss does not remain constant at every rpm. As rpm increases friction increase (exponentially) due to changes in oil viscosity and thremal expansion. One of many reasons why IMO everyone should reference only wheel values.


Thats what most people do, but the problem is that not all dyno's are equal. So even comparing whp #'s doesn't work.

juju4uofa
04-10-2008, 02:21 PM
^^True that

Bigjuice
04-10-2008, 07:25 PM
dooohhh....thats ok. With the wheel spin and just an okay 60ft time and he still managed a low 12 run, 11's seems obtainable. Although his post a little ambiguous on what boost and such he ran at.

400 awhp with 23% DTL is still 512 hp at the crank.

I could only get 27psi max on that day. The OAT was 33 degC...
Also the 27psi was actually a spike, by lookig on my Zetronics graph log it seems I can't hold the the requested boost...
Hence the drop off on the top end... (I think)

Tiluleshpingen
04-10-2008, 09:46 PM
But a bad launch can cause a higher MPH with a slightly slower ET, but this usually happens because you are in a different part of the power band when going thru the traps.



The % lost is pretty constant. Lucas engine dyno'd his setup to over 600chp and then when it was installed in the car he put it on a dyno which put down 460whp. This put the car exactly at the same 22% drive line loss as a stock powered A4.

If you produce more energy a contant about of it is loss, it doesn't just peak at a point. It also isn't a set # other wise a A4 with a blown turbo wouldn't drive at all. [>_<]

didnt me and you have this discussion before[:D]

Don Supreme
04-11-2008, 05:28 AM
I think thats plenty of injector. I though 630s at 3 bar could support up to 500 whp on a 4cylinder engine.


I've compiled the theoretical HP numbers that common sized injectors can support. There are 4 variables:

Injector flow rating: amount of fuel an injector can flow at 100% duty cycle (wide open) at a specified pressure (3 bar is assumed)

Relative fuel pressure at injector: The fuel pressure the system is set to minus any effects from boost or vacuum.

Duty cycle: the percentage time the ecu signals the injector to be open. Depending on which injectors and who you ask, maximum should be less than 80 or 90%.

Brake Specific Fuel Consumption: the amount of fuel the engine burns to make one (crank)horsepower for 1 hour in pounds/hour. This is the "unknown" variable. I have included values form .45 (really, really excellent) to .60 (mediocre). I don't believe any value lower than .45 for a 1.8T, BUT some people would disagree with that.

There is no question that the equation from which these values are calculated is accurate. (HP= Injector Flow*Duty Cycle*# injectors/BSFC) What can be questioned are the variables- what is actual fuel pressure? Do the injectors really flow at their rating? What is the actual BSFC? The only one we can be completely sure of is the number of injectors. Fuel pressure is pretty certain.
Injector flow is less so: people may be surprised how much injectors can vary from rated flow.
BSFC: the only guide here is we have here is similar engines where this is actually measured on an engine dyno. In my OPINION, the farther you get from stock (the more HP), the higher this number is likely to be.


Injector size: 380cc (36lb Hr)

Fuel Pressure 3 Bar
BSFC .45

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 256 HP
85% 272 HP
90% 288 HP
95% 304 HP
100% 320 HP

BSFC .50

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 230.4 HP
85% 244.8 HP
90% 259.2 HP
95% 273.6 HP
100% 288 HP

BSFC .55

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 209.45 HP
85% 222.55 HP
90% 235.64 HP
95% 248.73 HP
100% 261.82 HP

BSFC .60

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 192 HP
85% 204 HP
90% 216 HP
95% 228 HP
100% 240 HP

Injector size: 380cc (36lb Hr)

Fuel Pressure 4 Bar
BSFC .45

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 296.53 HP
85% 315.07 HP
90% 333.6 HP
95% 352.13 HP
100% 370.67 HP

BSFC .50

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 266.88 HP
85% 283.56 HP
90% 300.24 HP
95% 316.92 HP
100% 333.6 HP

BSFC .55

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 242.62 HP
85% 257.78 HP
90% 272.95 HP
95% 288.11 HP
100% 303.27 HP

BSFC .60

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 222.4 HP
85% 236.3 HP
90% 250.2 HP
95% 264.1 HP
100% 278 HP


Injector size: 440cc (42lb Hr)

Fuel Pressure 3 Bar
BSFC .45

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 298.67 HP
85% 317.33 HP
90% 336 HP
95% 354.67 HP
100% 373.33 HP

Fuel Pressure 3 Bar
BSFC .50

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 268.8 HP
85% 285.6 HP
90% 302.4 HP
95% 319.2 HP
100% 336 HP

Fuel Pressure 3 Bar
BSFC .55

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 244.36 HP
85% 259.64 HP
90% 274.91 HP
95% 290.18 HP
100% 305.45 HP

Fuel Pressure 3 Bar
BSFC .60

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 224 HP
85% 238 HP
90% 252 HP
95% 266 HP
100% 280 HP


Injector size: 440cc (42lb Hr)

Fuel Pressure 4 Bar
BSFC .45

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 345.6 HP
85% 367.2 HP
90% 388.8 HP
95% 410.4 HP
100% 432 HP

Fuel Pressure 4 Bar
BSFC .50

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 311.04 HP
85% 330.48 HP
90% 349.92 HP
95% 369.36 HP
100% 388.8 HP

Fuel Pressure 4 Bar
BSFC .55

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 282.76 HP
85% 300.44 HP
90% 318.11 HP
95% 335.78 HP
100% 353.45 HP

Fuel Pressure 4 Bar
BSFC .60

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 259.2 HP
85% 275.4 HP
90% 291.6 HP
95% 307.8 HP
100% 324 HP

Injector size: 580cc (55lb Hr)

Fuel Pressure 3 Bar
BSFC .45

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 391.11 HP
85% 415.56 HP
90% 440 HP
95% 464.44 HP
100% 488.89 HP

BSFC .50

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 352 HP
85% 374 HP
90% 396 HP
95% 418 HP
100% 440 HP

BSFC .55

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 320 HP
85% 340 HP
90% 360 HP
95% 380 HP
100% 400 HP

BSFC .60

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 293.33 HP
85% 311.67 HP
90% 330 HP
95% 348.33 HP
100% 366.67 HP

Injector size: 580cc (55lb Hr)

Fuel Pressure 4 Bar
BSFC .45

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 452.98 HP
85% 481.29 HP
90% 509.6 HP
95% 537.91 HP
100% 566.22 HP

BSFC .50

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 407.68 HP
85% 433.16 HP
90% 458.64 HP
95% 484.12 HP
100% 509.6 HP

BSFC .55

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 370.62 HP
85% 393.78 HP
90% 416.95 HP
95% 440.11 HP
100% 463.27 HP

BSFC .60

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 339.73 HP
85% 360.97 HP
90% 382.2 HP
95% 403.43 HP
100% 424.67 HP


60 lb/hr
3bar FP

.45 BSFC

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 426.67 HP
85% 453.33 HP
90% 480 HP
95% 506.67 HP
100% 533.33 HP

.50 BSFC

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 384 HP
85% 408 HP
90% 432 HP
95% 456 HP
100% 480 HP

.55 BSFC

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 349.09 HP
85% 370.91 HP
90% 392.73 HP
95% 414.55 HP
100% 436.36 HP

.6 BSFC

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 320 HP
85% 340 HP
90% 360 HP
95% 380 HP
100% 400 HP

4 bar
.45 BSFC

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 498.49 HP
85% 529.64 HP
90% 560.8 HP
95% 591.96 HP
100% 623.11 HP


.50 BSFC
Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 448.64 HP
85% 476.68 HP
90% 504.72 HP
95% 532.76 HP
100% 560.8 HP

.55 BSFC

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 407.85 HP
85% 433.35 HP
90% 458.84 HP
95% 484.33 HP
100% 509.82 HP

.60 BSFC

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 373.87 HP
85% 397.23 HP
90% 420.6 HP
95% 443.97 HP
100% 467.33 HP




Modified by bobqzzi at 9:36 AM 3-30-2006


See above ^

mike-2ptzero
04-11-2008, 06:31 AM
Here are the setups I have ran so far.

800cc injectors, 3 bar fuel pressure, 11.5:1 AFR - maxed at 500whp (640chp)
1000cc injectors, 3 bar fuel pressure, 11.5:1 AFR - maxed at 600whp (769chp)


Had to bump the fuel pressure up to not max out but really dont like doing that since I run the boost at 32psi and am trying to keep the max fuel pressure below 80psi which means I have to stay below a 48psi base fuel pressure.

Don Supreme
04-11-2008, 08:31 AM
Here are the setups I have ran so far.

800cc injectors, 3 bar fuel pressure, 11.5:1 AFR - maxed at 500whp (640chp)
1000cc injectors, 3 bar fuel pressure, 11.5:1 AFR - maxed at 600whp (769chp)


Had to bump the fuel pressure up to not max out but really dont like doing that since I run the boost at 32psi and am trying to keep the max fuel pressure below 80psi which means I have to stay below a 48psi base fuel pressure.

60 + 30 = 90. I wonder if my 044 is going to be able to keep up???
P.S. Mike are you running race ware head studs? What were the symptoms when you thought you lifted your head?

mike-2ptzero
04-11-2008, 08:45 AM
60 + 30 = 90. I wonder if my 044 is going to be able to keep up???
P.S. Mike are you running race ware head studs? What were the symptoms when you thought you lifted your head?

I am running them now. I thought the head lifted because oil sprayed all over the engine bay during a run at Fontana, I also had foam at the cap and some oil in the coolant tank but the oil was very clean in the engine. Turns out it was just spraying out of the catch can and foaming because of the high rpms. At this time the car has 15w50 oil in it from 034 and I am going to change that to a 10w30 or 0w40 soon.


Have you thought about just going with a set of injectors that would have the same flow rate at 3 bar as you have now at 60psi?

Don Supreme
04-11-2008, 09:25 AM
I am running them now. I thought the head lifted because oil sprayed all over the engine bay during a run at Fontana, I also had foam at the cap and some oil in the coolant tank but the oil was very clean in the engine. Turns out it was just spraying out of the catch can and foaming because of the high rpms. At this time the car has 15w50 oil in it from 034 and I am going to change that to a 10w30 or 0w40 soon.


Have you thought about just going with a set of injectors that would have the same flow rate at 3 bar as you have now at 60psi?

tune is the last step. Unitronic is working on 870cc tunes for the VWs now, so I am sure that will make it way down to A4s at some point. Either way, I am looking to get a custom tune or something along those lines when the hardware is fully dialed in.

bernB5
04-11-2008, 10:59 AM
so.. it was a bad idea for me to go with the 630 file from Tapp.. fuck
Daily I plan to run around 24psi and once I get w/m I'll run as much as I can safely, and on c16 I wanted to run around 30-32, which should be close to 500whp..

With a 3bar base and that much boost I hope I don't run out. I guess I"ll just do logs at every increase of boost to see where I can safely run up to.
I think it would have been stupid to go with the 1000cc tune though.

Poopie
04-11-2008, 12:32 PM
i don't think you'll see 500 whp on a 3076 even on race gas. Do you have any dynos on a 1.8t?

a220vt
04-11-2008, 03:57 PM
I think the 044 still flows pretty well at 4 bar, even at 6 bar which would be 30 psi, it doesn't drop horribly. You'd probably run out of injector before pump.
http://www.lucasinjection.com/580%20254%20044%20flow%20chart.jpg