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View Full Version : B5 or 6 A4 or B5 S4



dartdude72
03-11-2008, 09:46 PM
Well right now Im working on my 72 Dart and getting it ready to sell this summer. I have been looking at Audi's and was at first looking at S4s and then after reading around it on here I have been seeing that the 2.7T have had a lot to go wrong on them. I can do a lot of work on cars by myself but looks like parts are expensive and being in college I don't have a ton of extra money. I started looking at A4s with the 1.8T and those look like you can get them cheaper for the same year and everything but less power stock. I know that the 1.8T take to being upgraded really well so they don't look like to bad of a deal.

Pretty much what I am wondering is what everybody here thinks. Would you recommend to get a A4 instead of an S4 based on what I said in the first paragraph? I know this is in the A4 forum which might be a bit biased but from the looks of it a lot of you know enough about the other cars to give me a fair opinion. Another Piece of information that probably would be helpful is that Im looking to spend maybe about 13000.

Thanks for the help
Dan

sbghms
03-11-2008, 09:53 PM
You could do some good stuff with 13 g's. I would say buy a cheap A4 for like 6 or 7k, then use the other 6 or 7k to put twords some mods. Just perform the maintenence first, timing belt, water pump, etc. I wouldn't go with the S4, but if you got it you would like it. Just keep in mind that for a young male, insurance will be a bitch for the S4.

speedydragon
03-11-2008, 10:28 PM
A well maintained S4 should last a life time. 13000 would probably get you a 02 B6 1.8t with high miles, so I'd probably look for a 2001 or 2001.5 B5 with less miles for around 10000.

sean1.8t
03-11-2008, 10:37 PM
if you've got money. get an S4..

if you don't, get an A4. it's quite simple

dartdude72
03-11-2008, 11:08 PM
What is considered typical maintenance on a S4? I know the obvious like oil and whatnot but to make it run a lifetime without putting thousands into it what does it take?

ToMMyRsK04
03-11-2008, 11:31 PM
if you've got money. get an S4..

if you don't, get an A4. it's quite simple

x2

ToMMyRsK04
03-11-2008, 11:36 PM
What is considered typical maintenance on a S4? I know the obvious like oil and whatnot but to make it run a lifetime without putting thousands into it what does it take?

well the timing belt service alone around 60-70k should run you around $1000 just for that .. if your turbos blow, your looking at around $2000 just for turbos and about another $2000 for labor .. ohh and dont miss 2nd gear and grind .. 1st gear, 2nd gear and the slider from the dealer is around $1700 not including labor [:D]

dartdude72
03-12-2008, 12:02 AM
well the timing belt service alone around 60-70k should run you around $1000 just for that .. if your turbos blow, your looking at around $2000 just for turbos and about another $2000 for labor .. ohh and dont miss 2nd gear and grind .. 1st gear, 2nd gear and the slider from the dealer is around $1700 not including labor [:D]

For the timing belt were you assuming that a shop would do all the work for that or is that just the parts?

kingtr
03-12-2008, 12:30 AM
For the timing belt were you assuming that a shop would do all the work for that or is that just the parts?

Shop, but $1k is probably low end, he is talking about S4 (in case you didnt know).

On similar note though, timing belt for A4 1.8t is about $1k if done at shop, 300-350 if DIY (60k mile intervals). Other most common issue is control arms/tie rod ends (another $1k if done by shop).

I too am a college student w/ minimal money. Have had an A4 for the last 3.5 years and I assure you they are quite expensive. In that time, on two different A4's I've done 2 clutches, 2 sets of control arms/TRE's, replaced countless vac lines, one timing belt/etc. So roughly $4,500 in stuff.

AND THEN once you start modifying the car (to get more juice out of the 1.8t, which you already are suggesting) a whole nother set of expenses starts piling up.

i.e.
- chipped ecu (lucky if that keeps you satisfied), springs/struts, sway bars, exhaust, wheels, etc.

So either way, neither the S4 or A4 is really a cheap car to own. But yeah, the S4 is gonna cost you a lot more, esp once you start modifying it (i.e. chip it) and blow the turbos.

I'd try to find 2001 or 2001.5 A4 1.8t w/ 80-90K miles for hopefully less than $9,000. Throw the other 4 into savings, or start modifying stuff! Slippery slope though

ToMMyRsK04
03-12-2008, 12:33 AM
^^ yupp .. what he said

ToMMyRsK04
03-12-2008, 12:34 AM
For the timing belt were you assuming that a shop would do all the work for that or is that just the parts?

yeah a shop should charge you around $1000 with parts and labor included ( on an s4 )

sbghms
03-12-2008, 12:46 AM
well the timing belt service alone around 60-70k should run you around $1000 just for that .. if your turbos blow, your looking at around $2000 just for turbos and about another $2000 for labor .. ohh and dont miss 2nd gear and grind .. 1st gear, 2nd gear and the slider from the dealer is around $1700 not including labor [:D]

I did that once. You mean like the shifter being halfway between neutral and being in the 2nd spot? It didn't feel too good...

dartdude72
03-12-2008, 03:22 AM
Thanks for all the replies. One other thing I was wondering is how they do in snow. I know that they are AWD if I get a Quattro but I didnt know if they had any traction control or anything like that.

Thanks for the input.

ToMMyRsK04
03-12-2008, 08:38 AM
Thanks for all the replies. One other thing I was wondering is how they do in snow. I know that they are AWD if I get a Quattro but I didnt know if they had any traction control or anything like that.

Thanks for the input.

the 2000 s4 body didnt come with traction control .. the newer models did .. 2001 - 2002 .. I never really had a problem in my car with the snow ..

ToMMyRsK04
03-12-2008, 08:41 AM
I did that once. You mean like the shifter being halfway between neutral and being in the 2nd spot? It didn't feel too good...

loll yupp .. you should of felt a really nasty grind [;)] .. well if this happend 2nd gear isnt in the best shape .. it happend to me because a previous shop installed my short shifter in wrong and I went to bang 2nd and caught nothing but teeth on 2nd gear .. dealership quote for 1st, 2nd and the slider inbetween was $1700 [O_O]

onemoremile
03-12-2008, 10:11 AM
Do not buy an S4 with stock turbos. The problem is that everyone chips the S4 for the 310hp and big torque but that causes the turbos to overspeed and fail. The upgrade K04 turbos are much more reliable and a hell of a lot more fun. The stage 3 S4s are generally priced in the mid teens so they are a bit above your price range but you would be getting a lot more car for the money. It is always less expensive to buy a stage 3 than to build one so if you can't afford to buy the right one you can't afford to fix the wrong one.

If you can't get the stage 3 then look at a 1.8t or 2.8/3.0. College is the wrong time to start building automotive related debt. If you want real advice then get a cheap reliable car like an older Impreza, Civic, or Toyota and wait until you've got a degree and real job before getting too involved with cars as a hobby. The Audi mod bug can bite hard and keep the credit card debt going for years.

dartdude72
03-12-2008, 01:10 PM
Yeah, the S4s that are already stage 3 look like they are a bit out of my price range. With the 1.8T do you have to buy a different turbo manifold to put on something other than a KO4? Another thing I was wondering is if there is any kind of tuning software you can get to hook a laptop up to the ECU and tune while your driving?

onemoremile
03-12-2008, 02:02 PM
Lemmiwinks can tune a 2001+. The ATP Eliminator turbos can mount on a stock manifold but you'll also need a clutch, exhaust, intercooler, and tuning. At that point you're out a lot of time and are up to the price of a stage 3 S4 ready to rock. They are always cheaper to buy than build. I don't want to sound like your dad or anything but school is for learning. Get a simple car and worry about modding once you've got a degree and steady paycheck.

Eurotuned_A4
03-12-2008, 04:07 PM
if you've got money. get an S4..

if you don't, get an A4. it's quite simple

i agree. For those also talking about insurance and maintenance costs, it wont be much mroe for the s4. Last i checked the a4 isnt the cheapest thing to fix either. The difference in insurance will also be minimal from what i imagine.

onemoremile
03-12-2008, 04:12 PM
Insurance is about the same. The only real maintenance difference is if a K03 blows on the S4. Then it becomes a massive difference and the car is useless until the repair is paid for. The S4 I shared was like that. One week it was pure joy and the next it was freakishly expensive to repair. Blow a K03 on an A4 and you're back in the game for a few hundred bucks.

Stampy
03-12-2008, 05:00 PM
S4 = Longer penis
A4 = Thicker penis

They can achieve the same things. They just take different routes to accomplish it.


Really a simple search will prove the true cost of S4 ownership.

brinboston
03-12-2008, 06:09 PM
College is the wrong time to start building automotive related debt. If you want real advice then get a cheap reliable car like an older Impreza, Civic, or Toyota and wait until you've got a degree and real job before getting too involved with cars as a hobby. The Audi mod bug can bite hard and keep the credit card debt going for years.

that is some good advice..... just the fact that u're trolling forums even before u own one, mod bug is going to kick in as soon as u get one!

pipe7284
03-12-2008, 06:16 PM
x2 on what every one said.

TQMB5
03-12-2008, 07:37 PM
from one broke college kid to another. Keep that money and buy a cheap car. even a 96 a4 wouldnt be a bad choice if your set on an a4. cheap, reliable, and quattro. i could give you a list or reasons why you should keep your money and what to do with it but that would just be boring talk

dartdude72
03-12-2008, 08:26 PM
Ok, so for like a B5 A4 if you do a good job of maintenance by yourself and do all the work yourself, how much would it cost over a year? I know the Subi is also popular, they are nice cars and all, I just love the looks and the interior of the Audis and what I have seen is that Subi's aren't that cheap either.

sbghms
03-12-2008, 09:21 PM
loll yupp .. you should of felt a really nasty grind [;)] .. well if this happend 2nd gear isnt in the best shape .. it happend to me because a previous shop installed my short shifter in wrong and I went to bang 2nd and caught nothing but teeth on 2nd gear .. dealership quote for 1st, 2nd and the slider inbetween was $1700 [O_O]

crap...

Stampy
03-12-2008, 10:22 PM
Ok, so for like a B5 A4 if you do a good job of maintenance by yourself and do all the work yourself, how much would it cost over a year? I know the Subi is also popular, they are nice cars and all, I just love the looks and the interior of the Audis and what I have seen is that Subi's aren't that cheap either.

IF you look for a good one and don't settle for one just because its the color you want. You can be ok. I am lucky, I haven't had many problems with this car. I bought it with 56K on it. First year I did the TB job($270 parts), rear wheel bearing($95 total), some vaccum lines, and misc breaking pieces. I do all my own work thankfully so I am able to save cash that way as you can. Keep in mind oil changes are synthetic so its a wee lil more than normal. I took a while to buy this car though. I didn't pull the trigger until I knew it was a good one. I kinda had to do that since this is my Fiance's car technically.

Parts go bad. Thats natural. Audi parts go bad more than normal. Thats audi natural. These are minimum 7 year old cars at this point. The "regular" maintenance things aren't the ones that will surprise you.

dartdude72
03-13-2008, 04:12 PM
Thanks for all the input, this is one of my favorite forums, lots of good help and I have not seen any flaming or anything.

So looks like the general consensus is that A4's or S4's aren't the cheapest cars you can buy. It looks like if you can keep the car well maintained and if I do most the work myself its not going to be expensive for what I can afford. I guess Im just going to have to wait till I get my car sold then I will decide.

eastcoastjettin
03-13-2008, 05:03 PM
Hey Dartdude72, Im not sure if you would go for this, but my friend has a B5 A4 1.8t and I have a 2004 Jetta 1.8t. The things you hear about the audi being 1000$ more for everything isnt exactly a lie. A clutch for his car was 1300, whereas the same clutch for my car is 370....If you dont mind the lack of awd, i got my 2004 Jetta with 22K on the clock for 13000 off a lease.

LowSantorin
03-13-2008, 05:37 PM
^ You also got FWD!!![headbang] No but 13k is a good dea[up]l! And yea take a VW repair bill x2 to equal your audi repair.[evilmad]

IKE20VA4
03-13-2008, 08:10 PM
Thanks for all the replies. One other thing I was wondering is how they do in snow. I know that they are AWD if I get a Quattro but I didnt know if they had any traction control or anything like that.

Thanks for the input.

This is how they do in the snow...(the comparison shown is to a nissan altima and a chrysler pacifica though)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5760570293065569516&hl=en

[drive]

andyrew
03-13-2008, 08:25 PM
For more reliability you might want to consider a low mile 2.8 with good maintenence history.
(If you ever see snow or heavy rain.. yes Quattro is a must)

Good luck!

UN-PIMP-Z-A4
03-13-2008, 08:27 PM
When i was looking to upgrade last year to a 04 S4 insurance quote was 2.5 what i pay now. Yet 07 a4 only raised my insurance $20 a month.

Buy a Audi A4 thats quattro and most of the problematic items have been addressed.

dartdude72
03-13-2008, 11:58 PM
Yeah Im pretty set on getting something that is AWD because Im going to school that is an hour away from a "Ski resort" so going up the twisty roads with front wheel drive in snow sucks. Ill think I will probably just keep poking around on the forums until I actually get my car sold. Pretty much Im looking forward to getting out of my Altima that everything seems to be breaking on now.

Again, thanks for the input. I guess Im sort of impressed with this forum, from all the threads I have been on so far I haven't seen any flaming or anything like that.

Thanks for the help.
Dan