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View Full Version : Diverter valve relocation



MikeWasHere05
03-06-2008, 08:52 PM
I'm looking for a 90 degree coupler that has a nipple. I installed my front mount yesterday (with the K04) and ended up plumbing the hot side of the IC like so:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/mikeperson/pc16/pc16006.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/mikeperson/pc16/pc16005.jpg

I want to replace that black hose, but the diverter valve needs to be connected there. So I can either relocate the diverter valve to the cold side (what advantages does that offer?) or get a coupler with a nipple on it, so I can attach the DV where it currently is.

audiFUEGO
03-06-2008, 08:54 PM
interested in this also

jonrogers42
03-06-2008, 08:56 PM
i just installed my fmic last week and just cut the dv nipple off of the stock rubber piping and than put the nipple over the new piping's dv outlet and just clamped it down. Makeshift but it works well.

audiFUEGO
03-06-2008, 08:59 PM
^^^ you got lucky to have a a DV outlet on your new piping.

Thats what we need.

GTAnimal
03-06-2008, 09:11 PM
i think mjm has it. go check there its like $130 i think. it relocates the DV to the coldside of the intercooler. It said that it would increase throttle response not sure though. hope that helps. http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=6169_6170_6186_6188_6726_90 69&info=Forge_FMCSDVR_Diverter_Valve_Relocation_Kit_C old_Side&products_id=1534 there u go I found it.

audiFUEGO
03-06-2008, 09:18 PM
i dont think it would help anything to do relocate to the cold side.

First off you would have a much longer charge hose. Second the DV would be releasing hot air after the cooler which does nothing for performance.

dab_master
03-06-2008, 11:49 PM
I'm working on doing this right now. i just bought a stock TB hose from Euro-Tuner and i plan on buying a T from Forge. If the dv is located next to the TB then there will be less turbulence and therefore faster throttle response. As its set up now, all the charged air hits a brick wall when the TB is closed and has to flow from the TB all the way back to the dv, then when the throttle is hit again, has to flow back, creating turbulence and inefficiency.

audiness
03-07-2008, 04:12 AM
most cars with blow off vavles have it on the cold side, i think

MikeWasHere05
03-07-2008, 06:05 AM
Damn that MJM kit is expensive. I think it would be cheaper just to have a friend of mine weld a bung on my throttle body pipe, then just use a plastic sleeve. Then I guess just a small piece of straight pipe to attach it to the turbo inlet pipe?

audiFUEGO
03-07-2008, 06:45 AM
I'm working on doing this right now. i just bought a stock TB hose from Euro-Tuner and i plan on buying a T from Forge. If the dv is located next to the TB then there will be less turbulence and therefore faster throttle response. As its set up now, all the charged air hits a brick wall when the TB is closed and has to flow from the TB all the way back to the dv, then when the throttle is hit again, has to flow back, creating turbulence and inefficiency.

ahh i never thought of this

docurley
03-07-2008, 07:00 AM
You mean like this!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/docurley/Audi%20Project/DSC00243.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/docurley/Audi%20Project/DSC00242.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/docurley/Audi%20Project/Autobahn88g.jpg

dab_master
03-07-2008, 09:50 AM
if you dont want to spend $130 on this project just get this http://www.forgemotorsport.com/content.asp?inc=product&PageNo=2&catalog=0016

MikeWasHere05
03-07-2008, 10:30 AM
if you dont want to spend $130 on this project just get this http://www.forgemotorsport.com/content.asp?inc=product&PageNo=2&catalog=0016

Looks good.

docurley, I like your setup too. I don't see the plumbing back to the turbo inlet pipe though... whats going on?

dab_master
03-07-2008, 10:51 AM
You mean like this!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/docurley/Audi%20Project/DSC00243.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/docurley/Audi%20Project/DSC00242.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/docurley/Audi%20Project/Autobahn88g.jpg

did you buy a silicon TB hose and cut it, or are those 2 elbows? if elbows, what angle are they?

destrolock
03-07-2008, 11:10 AM
Holy crap, those hose clamps are sick! They clamp has major surface area, I need some like that. Sorry for the minor thread jack, but where did you guys get em?

docurley
03-11-2008, 04:57 AM
I bought the Autobahn88 Silicone hose kit and the Baileys DV kit (had this first) I then just cut the Inlet pipe (Took a small section out) and clamped in the Baileys T pipe.
The Baileys kit comes with caps to cap off the old DV location plus I'm also running a FMIC with this setup.

Clamps where bought of ebay they are known as T-clamps and I have to say they are sweet and so was the cheap silicone pipes which came in at half the cost of Samco's for both sides.

Also note we don’t have a smog pump in the UK so that may have something to do with the setup.


This was the old setup.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/docurley/Audi%20Project/FMIC10.jpg

The TB side


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/docurley/Audi%20Project/DSC00240.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/docurley/Audi%20Project/DSC00241.jpg

You can see the alley caps that Bailey supply in there kit to cap off the pipes.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/docurley/Audi%20Project/Autobahn88e.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/docurley/Audi%20Project/Autobahn88f.jpg


Full silicone pipe kit.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/docurley/Audi%20Stuff/21052007.jpg

b5a4gt28
03-11-2008, 09:39 AM
I'm working on doing this right now. i just bought a stock TB hose from Euro-Tuner and i plan on buying a T from Forge. If the dv is located next to the TB then there will be less turbulence and therefore faster throttle response. As its set up now, all the charged air hits a brick wall when the TB is closed and has to flow from the TB all the way back to the dv, then when the throttle is hit again, has to flow back, creating turbulence and inefficiency.

That isnt right because the purpose of the diverter is to take the pressure off of the turbo so that there is isnt any air pressure pushing back on the turbo which would create compressor surge. (bad for the turbo) It has nothing to do with taking the air off the tb. The reason its on the hot side is so that is can take the pressure off the turbo quicker so when you get back on the throttle the turbo can spool up faster. Also if its on the cold side the bov or diverter is going to drain all the air in the system and whats in the intercooler. Doing this means you will get less throttle response bc the turbo is now going to have to fill up the whole system and intercooler before it reaches the tb and into the engine.[up]

audiFUEGO
03-11-2008, 11:06 AM
so what is the best to do?

Hot side? Cold side?

DV? BOV? (doc runs one [confused] and no one said anything)

b5a4gt28
03-11-2008, 11:20 AM
I would say hot side and diverter. If our cars came that way then its probably not a bad idea to keep it the same way it came. With all the money volkswagon and audi spend on testing and engineering i would go with what they came up with. I dont know, maybe thats just me. But there is nothing wrong with the design they have...

dab_master
03-11-2008, 11:54 AM
That isnt right because the purpose of the diverter is to take the pressure off of the turbo so that there is isnt any air pressure pushing back on the turbo which would create compressor surge. (bad for the turbo) It has nothing to do with taking the air off the tb. The reason its on the hot side is so that is can take the pressure off the turbo quicker so when you get back on the throttle the turbo can spool up faster. Also if its on the cold side the bov or diverter is going to drain all the air in the system and whats in the intercooler. Doing this means you will get less throttle response bc the turbo is now going to have to fill up the whole system and intercooler before it reaches the tb and into the engine.[up]

This is not going to create turbo surge. there is a greater chance of surge on the hot side, because the air is flowing back towards the turbo to get to the dv. if for some reason the dv fails to open all the way you will get a lot of surge. The s4 has cold side stock. If turbo surge was such an issue do you think audi would have designed the s4 that way?

docurley
03-11-2008, 02:24 PM
That isnt right because the purpose of the diverter is to take the pressure off of the turbo so that there is isnt any air pressure pushing back on the turbo which would create compressor surge. (bad for the turbo) It has nothing to do with taking the air off the tb. The reason its on the hot side is so that is can take the pressure off the turbo quicker so when you get back on the throttle the turbo can spool up faster. Also if its on the cold side the bov or diverter is going to drain all the air in the system and whats in the intercooler. Doing this means you will get less throttle response bc the turbo is now going to have to fill up the whole system and intercooler before it reaches the tb and into the engine.[up]


The valve will only let out the pressure the spring is set to then close it would be the same hot or cold pressure build up would be the same either side.

audiFUEGO
03-11-2008, 03:28 PM
so doc are you still running a bov on the cold side?

I think running a DV on the cold side would be the most beneficial option

b5a4gt28
03-11-2008, 04:39 PM
This is not going to create turbo surge. there is a greater chance of surge on the hot side, because the air is flowing back towards the turbo to get to the dv. if for some reason the dv fails to open all the way you will get a lot of surge. The s4 has cold side stock. If turbo surge was such an issue do you think audi would have designed the s4 that way?

The turbo is creating boost though. So the closer the diverter valve is to the turbo the faster its going to take the air away from it. There is no true advantage to have the diverter valve on the cold side.

dab_master
03-11-2008, 05:48 PM
why does it matter if the air gets away from the turbo faster? just because the charged air has to travel a little further before it gets recirculated doesn't mean there will be any surging. Plus you are recirculating cold air, which is just going to be sent through the intercooler again, becoming even cooler. And saying that a bunch of money went into r&d on the placement of the dv doesn't mean it's the best place for it. you are talking about audi/vw here! if their engineers were that great no one would mod their cars to make them better.

b5a4gt28
03-11-2008, 08:30 PM
why does it matter if the air gets away from the turbo faster? just because the charged air has to travel a little further before it gets recirculated doesn't mean there will be any surging. Plus you are recirculating cold air, which is just going to be sent through the intercooler again, becoming even cooler. And saying that a bunch of money went into r&d on the placement of the dv doesn't mean it's the best place for it. you are talking about audi/vw here! if their engineers were that great no one would mod their cars to make them better.

If someone is going to spend the time, or even money to change it to the cold side thats just ridiculous. If someone is worried about the EXTREMELY TINY amount of air that gets recirculated and put back through the intercooler "to make it even colder" should not be driving a dub or Audi. You might SQUEEZE maybe, .1 of a horsepower because of the tiny little bit of "COLDER AIR" thats been recirculated and gone through the intercooler twice! Thats a serious upgrade![up] You would be better off spending the $130 on something useful....something that will ACTUALLY make your car faster.

Vreihenmotor6
03-11-2008, 09:41 PM
i think mjm has it. go check there its like $130 i think. it relocates the DV to the coldside of the intercooler. It said that it would increase throttle response not sure though. hope that helps. http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=6169_6170_6186_6188_6726_90 69&info=Forge_FMCSDVR_Diverter_Valve_Relocation_Kit_C old_Side&products_id=1534 there u go I found it.

that kit no longer exists

forge doesn't make it

and MJM doesn't have it (they haven't updated their site to sho what its mk4 firment only now)

docurley
03-13-2008, 07:56 AM
so doc are you still running a bov on the cold side?

I think running a DV on the cold side would be the most beneficial option


Yep I still run one and it's been on the car for two years without a issue.

This should help clear up some points:


What are the advantages of moving the dump valve away from the turbo?For convenience of plumbing, the manufacturers fit the dump valve as close as possible to the air filter. This also means that it is connected to the hot side of the intercooler. The compressed air from the turbocharger can reach temperatures in excess of 150°C, and this will drastically shorten the life of the rubber diaphragm. Also, for better response, it is preferable to situate the dump valve near to the throttle plate of the engine. If you look at the standard pipework of an RS 500, you will see that Ford Engineers re-sited the dump valve on this homologation model.
To enable the re-positioning of the Dump Valve, GGR produce complete kits (http://www.grahamgoode.com/frpua1.htm) consisting of a Dump Valve, a fabricated aluminium pipe to go from the intercooler to throttle body, and all of the relevant silicon hoses and clips to carry out the conversion. The kit also includes two polished aluminium blanking plugs to fit in place of the original dump valve.

Durkin
05-03-2008, 09:55 PM
I know its been over a month, but I got my idea from this thread, and figured I wasn't the only one thinking about it... so I decided to post what I did.
This was done with a budget of about $15 (student), i used SS exhaust pipe (2 1/8" ID) and a 1" SS pipe welded onto it creating a "T" Connection. the return line is 1" heater hose I purchased at advanced auto parts for $1.50/ft +/- (forget exact cost) i purchased 5', used about 3 1/2'.. the 90* off the "T" connection and the straight connection to the TIP were both slightly modified 90* plumbing connections. The plug in the turbo Out pipe was a drain plug i found, the only other parts i had to purchase were some more hose clamps.

Results:
I did notice a serious decrease in delay compared to the stock placement. I was hoping for a change so that might've amplified my "outcome" but i had a friend drive before and after without telling him what i did and he asked why my car was running better after the relocation...
the DV is in a much more convenient area to be serviced..
Also, according to my friends, it sounds much better outside the vehicle.
i have an APR93 chip and i use the green spring, without any spacers... no problems so far, and it's been this way for 400mi

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2612/dscf0553fn1.jpg
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6606/dscf0556rm3.jpg
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/4108/dscf0557nf6.jpg

This was mainly because i was bored and wanted to do something to my car without spending a lot, that might've helped, and i'm very pleased with it thus far...

Docurley: thanks for helping me with my questions..

docurley
05-04-2008, 02:17 AM
Glad I could help.