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View Full Version : the goal: make more power



k0mpresd
02-19-2008, 01:45 PM
that is all

there are plenty of backup plans for looks and reliability ..we just want to make more whp

hopefully it fits in the car haha

comments welcome

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/photo-109.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/photo-110.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/photo-111.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/photo-112.jpg

94jedi
02-19-2008, 01:48 PM
wow, I don't know squat about mani design (other than what I've read in that one thread on the vortex lol) but that sure looks puuuryt!!!

k0mpresd
02-19-2008, 01:51 PM
evans only concern was that the runners arent equal length..i said screw it..weld it up and put it on the car :)

Ewok_Fetus
02-19-2008, 01:51 PM
Have you measured to make sure it will clear?! Doesn't look like it might but I am not too sure about it! Looks good otherwise!

k0mpresd
02-19-2008, 02:02 PM
ha...find out soon enough i guess [eek]

ILoveT
02-19-2008, 02:05 PM
If the runners come up at more of an upward angle wouldn't you make more power? I'm not critiquing by any means just want to know.

k0mpresd
02-19-2008, 02:11 PM
i have no clue

i dont know that much about the flow of gases

ILoveT
02-19-2008, 02:14 PM
Well what I am thinking is... The runners dip down right out of the head, if you could direct the runners upwards more then you would increase velocity of the exhaust. The reason being, hot air rises.

k0mpresd
02-19-2008, 02:19 PM
2 of the runners on full race's manifolds turns down out of the head.. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3663145

audisnapr
02-19-2008, 02:22 PM
The reason being, hot air rises.

the way I understand it, hot air does not rise on its own. it's displaced by cold air.

ILoveT
02-19-2008, 02:22 PM
Hmmm... Let me think about my rebuttal. :)

audispeed
02-19-2008, 02:34 PM
the way I understand it, hot air does not rise on its own. it's displaced by cold air.


correct. regardless, the effect of air density causing hot air to rise is going to be so marginal in a manifold. smooth passages and bends will provide much bigger rewards.

ILoveT
02-19-2008, 02:35 PM
Ok, I've thought about it.

Even though hot air is displaced by cold air the same theory (hot air rises) holds true even if it is enclosed the runners. Their is still cold air underneath the manifold cooling down the runners. That in turn would still make the heat and gases inside the runners rise... Am I looking at it the wrong way?

I understand the keyword here is displaced so I'm really not sure.

ILoveT
02-19-2008, 02:37 PM
correct. regardless, the effect of air density causing hot air to rise is going to be so marginal in a manifold. smooth passages and bends will provide much bigger rewards.

One of my instructors used to build racing engines. A company came to him and asked him to basically move the exhaust ports up a little bit. With only that modification the engine output increased by 50 horse power. But that was on a naturally aspirated engine.

audisnapr
02-19-2008, 02:40 PM
Ok, I've thought about it.

Even though hot air is displaced by cold air the same theory (hot air rises) holds true even if it is enclosed the runners. Their is still cold air underneath the manifold cooling down the runners. That in turn would still make the heat and gases inside the runners rise... Am I looking at it the wrong way?

I understand the keyword here is displaced so I'm really not sure.

I think your logic is valid - but probably a bit misplaced. We aren't referring to a static room with hot air up at the ceiling and cold air at your feet. The velocity at which these hot gasses are moving probably are in no way affected by the cold outside of the pipes. Besides, the cold air on the outside of the pipes is not just under it, it's probably all around it and it's being heated by the radiant heat from the pipes themselves.

at any rate, I think what audispeed says has a much bigger impact on the flow of a manifold. Smooth transition (up or down) will be the key.

I know nothing about manifolds and less about thermal dynamics, but it does look nice.

k0mpresd
02-19-2008, 02:41 PM
i think youre thinking too hard

ILoveT
02-19-2008, 02:42 PM
[:(]

I want to make a manifold.

k0mpresd
02-19-2008, 02:43 PM
make one :)

audisnapr
02-19-2008, 02:45 PM
I need to learn how to weld... and by the looks of it, so do you [;)] [:D]

ILoveT
02-19-2008, 02:46 PM
Are you CNCing the flanges? And how hard was it to make the flange that bolts to the head?

gotaudi
02-19-2008, 02:47 PM
I Don't know about the placement it looks like the turbo to downpipe angle is going to be a little off.

why are the runners so long? I would think the shorter the runner the less thermal energy and velocity you would lose.

k0mpresd
02-19-2008, 02:51 PM
I need to learn how to weld... and by the looks of it, so do you [;)] [:D]
haha ..im not the one welding it ;) ..practice makes perfect i guess though

Are you CNCing the flanges? And how hard was it to make the flange that bolts to the head?
plasma cutter ftw ..and it was a little time consuming

i keep saying a waterjet would be a baller purchase but evan wont go for it [rolleyes]

I Don't know about the placement it looks like the turbo to downpipe angle is going to be a little off.

why are the runners so long? I would think the shorter the runner the less thermal energy and velocity you would lose.
we can hack/weld my current downpipe to any position we like

again..check full race's design and also 034's mani has some lengthy runners as well


..also..this wasnt aimed @ perfection..it was aimed @ "ok..lets make a manifold"

B518T
02-19-2008, 02:53 PM
I am pretty posative that the mani is out too far, and depending on the flange and the turbo, you may also be looking at hood-closing problems...

just looks a little too long, I'd shorten it a bit, maybe you should get a tape measurer and check your clearence...

keep up the good work, definately looks nice...can't wait to see the finished product with a big freakin turbo layin on top!

gotaudi
02-19-2008, 02:57 PM
..also..this wasnt aimed @ perfection..it was aimed @ "ok..lets make a manifold"[/QUOTE]

well the goal is to make more power... well perfection will give you that [:D] j/k you look like you are on your way keep up the good work. I cant wait to get a garage again [:(]

TighTT
02-19-2008, 03:23 PM
Please don't take this as hate...because thats WAY better than I could do at making a manifold:

If you're going to the trouble to make your own manifold, why not try and make it equal-length. I know its more difficult/time consuming but I think it will help alot. BTW....looks good. I hope it fits.works-out for ya! [up]

manufan
02-19-2008, 04:11 PM
Ian, if you need a flange milled, send me a sketch and I'll whip one out on the Mazak.

k0mpresd
02-19-2008, 04:17 PM
im pretty sure there are going to fit some clearance issues...engine on the stand vs engine in the car is way different haha..oops..oh well...

thanks jerry...you are the man...i got the package today..perfection as always [up] [up] [up]

manufan
02-19-2008, 04:18 PM
Sweet, can't wait to hear how it all works out.

k0mpresd
02-19-2008, 04:19 PM
Sweet, can't wait to hear how it all works out.
i will make a mention of the outcome

if anyone needs anything machined contact that man above..you will not be happier w/ the work

ILoveT
02-19-2008, 04:21 PM
Hmmmmmm! Maybe he can get me started off with the flangezzzzz....

k0mpresd
02-19-2008, 04:22 PM
hit him up

seriously..his work is perfection

edit: grammar..dude..i am so out of it..i hate being sick :(

Poopie
02-19-2008, 04:26 PM
That will fit, but make sure you angle the turbo inwards because you will have a bitch of a time making a good downpipe that fits. Even with the atp placed mani I'm about 2 inches from the chassis on the down pipe.

absolute
02-19-2008, 06:44 PM
Damn Ian you have my dirty laundry on the internet here. [;)] I should point out the best part about this manifold is that it has cost a total of $77 in materials from the local scrap metal yard. And yes it may be too long and hit the frame rail. I hope to do this one, one with bigger piping, one with equal length runners and one with bigger equal length pipes. The dyno will tell the difference. By then maybe I will make one look good too.

mike-2ptzero
02-19-2008, 07:19 PM
haha ..im not the one welding it ;) ..practice makes perfect i guess though

plasma cutter ftw ..and it was a little time consuming

i keep saying a waterjet would be a baller purchase but evan wont go for it [rolleyes]

we can hack/weld my current downpipe to any position we like

again..check full race's design and also 034's mani has some lengthy runners as well


..also..this wasnt aimed @ perfection..it was aimed @ "ok..lets make a manifold"



Full-race manifold has 14.5" runners which IIRC include the collector.


Looking at your manifold, it looks like you might need to remove your frame rail to make it fit.
Why do you think both Full-race and 034 use a Ram design?

http://shop.dthaus.com/images/1200183809696-1859383422.jpeg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/photo-111.jpg


plus if you still need to put a collector on what you have isn't the turbo going to sit on top of the hood?

onemoremile
02-19-2008, 07:38 PM
I showed up late to the party. Nice zoomies!

absolute
02-19-2008, 07:40 PM
I assume they use the ram design for several reasons. Equal length, space and looks. I also have mixed feelings on the need for equal length for turbo applications. Some feel like it is overrated.That is part of my interest in doing this. So far it may be too long because I was just doing it on an old engine on a stand. Never used the tape measure once. But it isn't going to be to tall.