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View Full Version : WHAT?! Small-port B6 1.8t makes more power than AEB?



grip_racer
02-11-2008, 06:15 PM
I emailed a GIAC rep, to ask about the power difference in the B5 PC-16(250hp) and B6 K04FX(270hp) files, and got this:

"The B6 A4s use differing hardware entirely, the small port head the engines have will make more power than the AEB head (contrary to popular belief). From our measurements, it is good for about 20hp. "


HUUUUUUUHHHHHH??!?!?

Solaris
02-11-2008, 06:27 PM
I believe it has something to do with the increased air velocity. Bigger isn't always better.

mike-2ptzero
02-11-2008, 06:46 PM
Correct, which helps the K03/K04. The larger port on the AEB comes into play when making much more power on a BT and BAT setup since thats where the maf flow will come into play.

sean1.8t
02-11-2008, 06:51 PM
it's more help with air velocity on smaller turbos. makes better torque mainly. but like mike said, but give the engine a turbo(gt28 or bigger) that really flows air and the small ports are a restriction at higher rpms

grip_racer
02-11-2008, 07:36 PM
ahhh i see.

lame.

317ssayzarc
02-11-2008, 08:26 PM
ahhh i see.

lame.

only if you have a lame baby turbo setup [:p]

i kid i kid...

Nebone
02-11-2008, 08:29 PM
Size does matter.

MikeWasHere05
02-11-2008, 08:38 PM
Haha, any 2001 BT guys want to swap heads? I always wanted VVT!

317ssayzarc
02-11-2008, 08:44 PM
Haha, any 2001 BT guys want to swap heads? I always wanted VVT!

it doesnt work like that...

MikeWasHere05
02-11-2008, 08:55 PM
it doesnt work like that...

Tongue, meet cheek.

http://www.talkingproud.us/ImagesCulture/HelmetPhotos/EarsTongue.jpg

317ssayzarc
02-11-2008, 09:00 PM
Tongue, meet cheek.

what does that expression mean btw? ive heard it but never really though about it...

sean1.8t
02-11-2008, 09:03 PM
Haha, any 2001 BT guys want to swap heads? I always wanted VVT!

i will!!!

you may not get the VVT, but you'll gain a bit more torque and hp[:)]

317ssayzarc
02-11-2008, 09:08 PM
Tongue, meet cheek.

which kinda cheek? ass cheek? thats a little weird man [:p]

grip_racer
02-11-2008, 09:20 PM
lol dont shit on my awesome thread you two

MikeWasHere05
02-11-2008, 09:24 PM
which kinda cheek? ass cheek? thats a little weird man [:p]

Haha, I was kidding. I guess it comes from people putting their tongue in their cheek to keep from laughing? Apparently thats what they did back in the olden days.

Now! Back on topic! The big whales have smaller ports! [wrench]

sean1.8t
02-11-2008, 09:25 PM
which kinda cheek? ass cheek? thats a little weird man [:p]

haha, it took you 8 minutes to think of that?

317ssayzarc
02-11-2008, 10:00 PM
i didnt even think of that, i was talking to someone who said that so i posted it cuz i thought it was funny...

audiFUEGO
02-12-2008, 10:21 AM
does the AWM have a small port head?

grip_racer
02-12-2008, 10:27 AM
yes it does luckyyyyy

small ports are 2000+

Don Supreme
02-12-2008, 10:28 AM
^ yes

audiFUEGO
02-12-2008, 10:30 AM
so then why does AEB pc-16 make more power than AWM fxk04?

AudiA4_20T
02-12-2008, 10:59 AM
ahhh i see.

lame.

Ill trade you my small port for your AEB

grip_racer
02-12-2008, 11:07 AM
lol, if you swap the engines in a time frame where i can still get to school tomorrow, and dont leave a scratch on the car, no problem. i wont be going any bigger than K04 on my budget.

audiFUEGO
02-12-2008, 08:55 PM
so then why does AEB pc-16 make more power than AWM fxk04?

no one knows?

Poopie
02-12-2008, 08:59 PM
I've seen 200 whp graphs for both years.

audiFUEGO
02-12-2008, 09:44 PM
everyone always claims pc-16 has more power than hammer. Wouldnt it more sense the other way around?

Poopie
02-12-2008, 09:45 PM
no because the power is limited to the turbo

sean1.8t
02-12-2008, 10:13 PM
no because the power is limited to the turbo

exactly. out of the box the PC-16 runs a bit more boost than the Hammer.(the j31 above both of those). but with a way to control boost, and some tweaks. the same power for all 3 is acheiveable..

the main difference between the 2 heads(all other mods being the same like intercooler piping and such), will be how the power/torque come on. not the peak

audiFUEGO
02-12-2008, 10:24 PM
how much boost does the B6 fxk04 run?

Devious27t
02-13-2008, 11:09 AM
Correct, which helps the K03/K04. The larger port on the AEB comes into play when making much more power on a BT and BAT setup since thats where the maf flow will come into play.

eh I think that is still subjective. FWIW I think your car benefits from the larger head with a 35R. 500hp has been made all day on the small port heads. As you recall, the Del Rio car was using a small port head back in the day and making crazy power.

We'll just have to see how this little diddy goes
http://www.audigeeks.com/forums/index.php?topic=2687.0 [:D]

ModifiedA4
02-13-2008, 12:03 PM
We'll just have to see how this little diddy goes
http://www.audigeeks.com/forums/index.php?topic=2687.0 [:D]

im very interested in the outcome of this. [up]

simply speaking from a fluid dynamics point of view, it should be easy to calculate the mass flow rates that are best suited for which manifold.

the logic behind the calculation would be very similar to the thinking that goes into injector duty cycle. if an injector is open for more than ~25ms, its spraying into the back of a valve...in other words there is a finite amount of time per revolution to jam fuel and air in. increased velocity from a small port manifold has the advantage here, more velocity, more stuff in per unit time. the argument against this is simply "bigger is better".

I have a strong suspicion that the small port is probably good for alot of flow. maybe ill open excel and give this a try.

AudiA4_20T
02-13-2008, 12:24 PM
lol, if you swap the engines in a time frame where i can still get to school tomorrow, and dont leave a scratch on the car, no problem. i wont be going any bigger than K04 on my budget.

hmmmm your in the ATL eh? Ill be down there in a month or so if you want to swap

Don Supreme
02-13-2008, 12:41 PM
^ you call passing through on the way to FL "there" ? You are crazy Clint.

Head job in 30 mins huh?

audiFUEGO
02-13-2008, 03:19 PM
so if a 99 B5 with AEB swaps out with a 2001 AWM, then the 99 would need the FXk04 file correct? Since the pc-16 was written for the larger head? Do i have that corrctly?

And also, If the B6 fxk04 theoretically makes more power than the aeb pc16, then that would mean that it must also make more power than the b5 fxk04... can someone explain why?

Devious27t
02-13-2008, 04:10 PM
so if a 99 B5 with AEB swaps out with a 2001 AWM, then the 99 would need the FXk04 file correct? Since the pc-16 was written for the larger head? Do i have that corrctly?

And also, If the B6 fxk04 theoretically makes more power than the aeb pc16, then that would mean that it must also make more power than the b5 fxk04... can someone explain why?

no the code is written specfically for the ECU's. A small port would still be able to use PC16.

ModifiedA4
02-18-2008, 12:19 PM
ok, i did some more thinking about this and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to graph something that may yield conclusions.

but first, what is a typical max flow rate a BAT setup could see in g/s? I know maf readings are crap for most BT programs, but what is realistic? 320g/s? (320/.8=400hp est)

Poopie
02-18-2008, 01:07 PM
I guess it depends on what the readings are scaled for. When my 4in maf hits 100g's its roughly 300 whp

ModifiedA4
02-18-2008, 01:14 PM
I guess it depends on what the readings are scaled for. When my 4in maf hits 100g's its roughly 300 whp

yah scaling the maf is a cheap but effective tuning trick, any idea what is the real g/s entering the engine?

Poopie
02-18-2008, 01:15 PM
absolutely no clue. haha