PDA

View Full Version : gt3071R chris tapp tuning runing way lean problems? help please



Jaxspeeddemon
01-20-2008, 10:55 AM
I have atp gt3071R hardware kit on my car with the 4 inch inlet, chris tapp tuning, ford 4 inch maf that chris tapp sent me himself so i know its good, siemens 60lb injectos(630cc injectors), and a 3bar fpr off a non turbo bettle. Earlier today i had a shop hook up a wideband o2 on the exhaust and went out driving, it was running 16.0 A/f at 20psi at WOT so i tunred the boost down to 15psi and still at 16.0 af ratio, im on 93 octance, my car has no boostleaks, has anyone else had this problem, is my fpr possibly bad, my car runs a little rough when its cold, idles from 800-1500rpm but when it warms up it runs fine, i am lost and very frustrated, thanks for any help.....

k0mpresd
01-20-2008, 11:06 AM
you need fpr from turbo car

not sure 2.0 fpr are 1:1 ..doubt they are

AudiRacerS4
01-20-2008, 11:07 AM
you need fpr from turbo car

x2

Don Supreme
01-20-2008, 11:07 AM
Hold on here... Are you telling me that you run a FPR that doesn't increase fuel pressure with boost???????????????????????????????? I hope to god not.

k0mpresd
01-20-2008, 11:08 AM
i believe thats what hes saying ;)

AudiRacerS4
01-20-2008, 11:10 AM
you're lucky you haven't blown your engine yet running 20psi

Poopie
01-20-2008, 11:20 AM
hopefully you haven't melted a piston yet.

AudiRacerS4
01-20-2008, 11:23 AM
hopefully you haven't melted a piston yet.

yeah that would suck....depends how long he has been running his car that lean [eek]

bassed
01-20-2008, 01:36 PM
First sentence almost made me cry! You need an adjustable FPR, call Scott at USRT first thing tomorrow and have it OVERNIGHTED so you can dial it in as needed. OR ask Chris what FPR the file was written for and get it from Scott. you can't fun a 3bar off a 2.0L non Turbo Beatle!

http://www.usrallyteam.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=10_57&zenid=c5276b1b0b11a6bc343a6a91bcd660fc

dubiraq05
01-20-2008, 03:06 PM
ya just dynoed mine and mine is the complete opposite 10.3-1 afr gotta lean mine out a bunch so i dont drowned it with meth when that gets on the car!

Jaxspeeddemon
01-20-2008, 05:15 PM
a 3bar fpr, 4 inch lighting maf and 60lb injectors is what is required to run tapp tuning on a gt3071R. Thanks for the link bassed

AudiRacerS4
01-20-2008, 05:17 PM
a 3bar fpr, 4 inch lighting maf and 60lb injectors is what is required to run tapp tuning on a gt3071R. Thanks for the link bassed

yeah but your running the wrong 3BAR

Jaxspeeddemon
01-20-2008, 05:38 PM
so the one I need is usrt 3 bar fpr?

AudiRacerS4
01-20-2008, 05:55 PM
so the one I need is usrt 3 bar fpr?

no you need an adj fpr for what you are running

a220vt
01-20-2008, 06:03 PM
The file is written for 3 bar, so an adjustable FPR shouldn't be required. Get the correct 3 bar FPR, then log and have Chris tweak the file for you if it's still off. I have to run a 4 bar on my setup (3076r) to get decent AFR's under boost. It was around 13:1 under boost with the 3 bar. I'm still trying to sort it out with Chris. I've had so many problems with this chip it's not even funny....

bassed
01-20-2008, 06:03 PM
ya just dynoed mine and mine is the complete opposite 10.3-1 afr gotta lean mine out a bunch so i dont drowned it with meth when that gets on the car!

After you fix it from the recent run in with a deer[:(] You really need to make sure you get a Meth File from Chris!

Jaxspeeddemon
01-20-2008, 06:13 PM
yeah but your running the wrong 3BAR

how many 3 bar fpr are there for a audi and vw's? and what the difference?

AudiRacerS4
01-20-2008, 06:14 PM
how many 3 bar fpr are there for a audi and vw's? and what the difference?

the difference the two is that a fpr from a turbo car increases the fuel pressure as you build boost...a fpr from a naturally aspirated car does not

dubiraq05
01-20-2008, 06:19 PM
After you fix it from the recent run in with a deer[:(] You really need to make sure you get a Meth File from Chris!

already have it!

Jaxspeeddemon
01-20-2008, 06:21 PM
i just ordered the 3-5 adj fpr for 105 bucks, fedex was $17 for 2 days so i should have it wed or thursday, sorry to hear that a220vt but i knew someone else out there had problems to, chris told me people who get the ebay ford maf have problems, so you might want to contact chris about that if you have not changed your maf to a legit one and not a ebay maf. I hope the adj fpr works for me.

94jedi
01-20-2008, 07:28 PM
i just ordered the 3-5 adj fpr for 105 bucks, fedex was $17 for 2 days so i should have it wed or thursday, sorry to hear that a220vt but i knew someone else out there had problems to, chris told me people who get the ebay ford maf have problems, so you might want to contact chris about that if you have not changed your maf to a legit one and not a ebay maf. I hope the adj fpr works for me.

adj is best. even though the file is written for 3 bar, you'll have to fine tune your own setup. every car/situation is always going to be different.

a220vt
01-20-2008, 08:19 PM
Yeah, my current MAF sensor is straight from a Ford dealership. I did have one of the e-bay MAF's, and it didn't work properly because it was modified somehow for a different application, which I didn't know when I bought it.

I understand that every car and setup is going to be a little different, hence the differences seen in AFR's from car to car. I feel like adjusting the fuel pressure is just a band-aid fix. I'd rather just have Chris adjust the file to match what's going on with the car.

Poopie
01-20-2008, 08:41 PM
the problem is that the fuel pressure regulator was not intended for boosted applications. The base pressure was correct but did not rise with the boost. If the 3bar was out of a vw 1.8t it would have been fine.

dualaudi
01-20-2008, 09:05 PM
I feel like adjusting the fuel pressure is just a band-aid fix. I'd rather just have Chris adjust the file to match what's going on with the car.

band-aid fix? doesn't everyone recommend an adjustable fuel pressure regulator? I understand the software is written for a 3 bar, but an AFPR should be a fine tuning thing, instead of saying hey, chris, retune this chip (unless of course ctapp is running your car on the dyno to get your car just right - but it doesn't sound like he's doing that for your car, is he?)

VTECCURED
01-20-2008, 09:09 PM
im running the same setup as JAX, on a stock block.
i'm also running a 3bar non turbo FPR. But i havent been running the car hard since i still have to complete the exhaust, add walbro pump, and my gauges... i was going to skip on the wideband for a few months but it seems i should get it now and monitor it!

WOW.. this can be very dangerous...

a220vt
01-20-2008, 10:35 PM
No, Chris isn't running my car on the dyno to tune it (I wish I could go to Canada so he could), he also didn't recommend an adjustable regulator. He told me that 3 bar is what's called for, so that's what I want to run. Not 4 bar. He can adjust the injector duty cycle based on my logs.

I say that adjusting fuel pressure is a band-aid fix because it affects fueling across the whole range of driving conditions (idle, part throttle, WOT). The real way to "fine-tune" would be to log under boost, so that Chris can see where the car is running lean, and adjust the map accordingly.

I'm not saying that adjusting fuel pressure doesn't work, because it obviously does. It's just not how I want or prefer to do it. Fuel pumps don't flow nearly as well when you start raising the base pressure. Here's a link to the flow chart for the Bosch 044 pump, observe how flow goes down as you start adding pressure:
http://www.lucasinjection.com/580%20254%20044%20flow%20chart.jpg
So if you want to run high boost, upping the fuel pressure can be bad.

dualaudi
01-20-2008, 11:33 PM
i must of missed the class about charts in college... can someone translate that into words? well, good luck, if ctapp can change your chip based on logs, more power to you... i wish I could afford a ctapp tune...

AudiRacerS4
01-21-2008, 08:27 AM
im running the same setup as JAX, on a stock block.
i'm also running a 3bar non turbo FPR. But i havent been running the car hard since i still have to complete the exhaust, add walbro pump, and my gauges... i was going to skip on the wideband for a few months but it seems i should get it now and monitor it!

WOW.. this can be very dangerous...

yeah you better swap out your fpr as well [eek]

94jedi
01-21-2008, 09:58 AM
Yeah, my current MAF sensor is straight from a Ford dealership. I did have one of the e-bay MAF's, and it didn't work properly because it was modified somehow for a different application, which I didn't know when I bought it.

I understand that every car and setup is going to be a little different, hence the differences seen in AFR's from car to car. I feel like adjusting the fuel pressure is just a band-aid fix. I'd rather just have Chris adjust the file to match what's going on with the car.

I wouldn't say it's band-aid fix but obviously logs under boost as you suggested would be the best way. I just didn't want to fuss with it too much because my car ran fine. I also didn't want to send my ecu back to chris and wait another week or so.

mike-2ptzero
01-21-2008, 10:40 AM
So any pics of this so called NA 3 bar fpr you guys are running?

a220vt
01-21-2008, 10:43 AM
You don't have to send your ECU to him, since our ECU's are socketed, he can just send out a new chip.

94jedi
01-21-2008, 01:27 PM
You don't have to send your ECU to him, since our ECU's are socketed, he can just send out a new chip.

really? did he recently start socketing them or has that always been the case? I don't recall mine being socketed but I never really looked in there either lol.

Jaxspeeddemon
01-21-2008, 03:20 PM
this is the email chris tapp just sent me

Chris,

You are going to have to check your fuel pressure under boost, it has to be something of that nature for you to be running that lean.

Your fuel pressure should be 45 psi plus whatever boost you are running, if you are running 20 psi your fuel pressure should be 65 psi and no less at any time. (while under boost)

Please check this and let me know what you find. I can make you a file with more fuel, but that wont do any good if the pressure is low, and no one else has needed this to date.



Chris

Poopie
01-21-2008, 04:15 PM
mines socketed.

a220vt
01-21-2008, 06:17 PM
I think that most are, except the newer DBW cars. I have a friend here who has an AWW engine code Golf, and Chris sent him a new chip in the mail to swap out. His new chip made me jealous, no MAF required...

xr4tic
01-21-2008, 10:49 PM
This sounds odd to me. A 3 bar is a 3 bar is a 3 bar. I doubt it matters if it's from an NA or Turbo car.

NA cars still have a reference port, just because they never see pressure, doesn't mean it won't work, it would be silly to design a FPR that way.

mike-2ptzero
01-22-2008, 07:11 AM
I think that most are, except the newer DBW cars. I have a friend here who has an AWW engine code Golf, and Chris sent him a new chip in the mail to swap out. His new chip made me jealous, no MAF required...

That is because those cars run a wide band 02 sensor and you cant wire up a ford maf in place of the stock one since it doesn't use a 0-5 volt signal. I think that might be why he doesn't tune the dbw cars that dont have a 5 wire 02 sensor which would be the 2000 for us.

goody6691
01-22-2008, 07:34 AM
does he tune non-dbw cars as well? how would one get in touch with him?

mike-2ptzero
01-22-2008, 08:07 AM
does he tune non-dbw cars as well? how would one get in touch with him?

Thats what he mainly does and is what he owned when he first started tuning his A4. He tunes them using a Ford maf.

94jedi
01-22-2008, 08:37 AM
does he tune non-dbw cars as well? how would one get in touch with him?

Dave, n-dbw is his niche. his website is http://www.tappauto.com/ and his chip division is called eurodyne I think. give him a call. I'm sure he'd LOVE to work on your setup. his tunes aren't too expensive either, I paid $800 for a 2 file ecu (94 oct/race gas) $30 for a maf conversion harness, $75 for a 4" ford maf and billet cone filter adapter, and about $225 for a new set of siemens 630 cc injects. He may recommend the 1000cc injectors for your application but who knows. Give him a shout. here's his contact info:
Telephone 613.225.8780

Email General Info:
chris@tappauto.com

killa
01-25-2008, 04:08 AM
There is nothing wrong with his Fuel pressure regulator, it's a 3Bar so your base pressure will be less than 45psi at idle because of vaccum going to the top of the fpr and will rise 1:1 ratio when under boost, simple as that. What fuel pump are you using? Please don't tell me stock because a stock pump will not give you good rusults at 20psi of a GT3071R.
If you have a walbro then email me since i dont come here often and i'll help you troubleshoot your car

killa
01-25-2008, 04:08 AM
This sounds odd to me. A 3 bar is a 3 bar is a 3 bar. I doubt it matters if it's from an NA or Turbo car.

NA cars still have a reference port, just because they never see pressure, doesn't mean it won't work, it would be silly to design a FPR that way.


Yeah, it really doesn't [up]

killa
01-25-2008, 04:11 AM
im running the same setup as JAX, on a stock block.
i'm also running a 3bar non turbo FPR. But i havent been running the car hard since i still have to complete the exhaust, add walbro pump, and my gauges... i was going to skip on the wideband for a few months but it seems i should get it now and monitor it!

WOW.. this can be very dangerous...


Don't be silly[=(]

I have a wideband if it makes you feel better, but you'll be fine with the Walbro (why do you ask for forum oppinion when you have my cellphone number????) [headbang][headbang]

[:D][:D][:D]