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View Full Version : K03 Sport on an AEB?



grip_racer
01-18-2008, 01:29 PM
I have a '97 A4, AEB motor. It has the stock K03 on it. It's currently chipped with a GIAC.

Would putting a K03 Sport from a later-model A4 yield decent (20hp?) power gains if I upped the boost? I know I couldn't buy the chip for the later-model cars, as they were all DBW throttle.

If I could pick up a used K03 Sport for cheap, would it be worth it to put it on and turn up the boost?

Also, would it pose any tuning problems? Would I maybe have to install a 5bar FPR to compensate for the slightly higher airflow/boost?

mark_2328
01-18-2008, 01:36 PM
I'm currently running a ko3s on a stock AEB. I don't have a chip, so I can't really tell the difference anyways, but I'm just sayin it will work.

Nebone
01-18-2008, 01:39 PM
Why not just throw in a 5bar to add more fuel and use boost controller to add more air on a stock 150 hp A4?

You are asking the same question. This is why you pay a company to tune the car with specific hardware. There has to be software harmony with all these mechanical gadgest you throw in.

I have a K03s on my 2001.5 and it does not create more power than a K03 due to the fact that there is really no specific software for that. Maybe the GIAC X but I don't know if its just for the 2001 models.

K03s has been covered and its not an upgrade for the K03, but a mere replacement. I wish there was some enchancements for it.

A4Rollin
01-18-2008, 01:42 PM
Only go K03s if you blow your original turbo and you dont want to upgrade to a BT for stock like performance. The turbos dont push out much more power/ if any. I have a 2001.5 that runs a k03s with a 4 bar fpr. I would say running a 5bar would make it run too rich, no need for that. Either go with the stock 4 bar or get an adjustable

mark_2328
01-18-2008, 01:49 PM
That's what happened to the previous owner of my car. Blew the ko3, replaced with a ko3s.

dingguhlbary
01-18-2008, 02:04 PM
ko3s's can get almost as much power as ko4's. if you are strapped for cash and dont want to buy a ko4, a ko3s could work for some gains. i know theres a chart somewhere that compares all the turbos. ill try to find it.

grip_racer
01-18-2008, 02:09 PM
^^ thanks dingl!

and nebone, dalhback makes a program for your 2001.5 that makes 215hp. also, upping the boost on my reg. K03 wont yeild as much gains as upping it with a K03sport. the comp. wheel is bigger and can push more PSI on the sport. the VW guys are getting 200+ FWHP no problem on their sports.

i think im gonna do it, i know i can get at least 15-20hp more from a sport.

tdn
01-18-2008, 02:41 PM
Dahlback and Giac have programs specifically for 2001 a4s because of the "k03s", dahlback being more aggressive. Putting a k03s in place of a k03 will make a difference. It's probably not worth doing if nothings wrong with you turbo.. but if yours breaks, than a k03s/k04 is good replacement if you don't want or can't afford to go big turbo.

Nebone
01-18-2008, 03:31 PM
APR 93 which I have (2001) is rated at 214hp. The K03s compressor is a K04 compressor (I'm pretty sure of it; its a Hybrid). The difference between 209 hp (2000 year) and 214 (2001) is so impressive, it would make me want to spend a whole day busting knuckles replacing turbos [rolleyes]

It still has a K03 turbine which will not create as much flow as the K04.

FWD Transverse 1.8T get 200 whp after chip and turboback. All of them do with much less drivetrain loss.

It all has to do with Reliability Factor. Regular K03 makes 150 hp stock and when they decided to increase the power for newer years, they made this hybrid to keep the safety factor. In my opinion the K03s is a nice reliable turbo which makes me happy after almost 3 years of owning this car.

Nebone
01-18-2008, 03:43 PM
There are definitely ways to get more power out of the K03 and K03s. If you up the boost, you will need to sustain it with a better intercooler and mater/meth injection. You need a boost controller and/or crank your wastegate while tinkering with Lemmiwinks and most likely change out the injectors.

Straight swap of turbo and upping boost will not get you far.

Tiluleshpingen
01-18-2008, 06:26 PM
Only go K03s if you blow your original turbo and you dont want to upgrade to a BT for stock like performance. The turbos dont push out much more power/ if any. I have a 2001.5 that runs a k03s with a 4 bar fpr. I would say running a 5bar would make it run too rich, no need for that. Either go with the stock 4 bar or get an adjustable

yeah and i know some peeps here in jersey that run k04 and they use 4 bar and 3 bar(i think from a 2.0 golf)

dingguhlbary
01-19-2008, 12:29 AM
well i cant find that damn chart i saw. but i searched some threads and this guy claims this:



k04 turbo can produce up to 220hp (just the turbo, not the car)
k03s can produce up to 215hp
k03 can produce up to 195hp
[:)]

it was actually from a thread you originally started. but i swear i saw a chart that looked mad legit that showed the ko4 having a small upperhand to the ko3s. by small, i mean not enough to spend 750 on a ko4 when a ko3s could be had at like 150.

either way, i hope i read the chart right. because if not, im totally wrong and just wasting my time and yours for responding. but oh well. go AZ!!

grip_racer
01-19-2008, 12:56 AM
lol that chart looks right to me. i think all the k04 has over the sport is a 1mm bigger exhaust turbine? They have the same size compressor. I've even heard that the Sport compressor may be slightly larger than the K04's.

N/A guys spend $400-1000 for a header that nets them 10hp maybe. If I can get a Sport for under $200, I'm buying it, putting it on, and pushing my boost up to 20+psi. The VW guys on the vortex are getting great numbers with their Sports. 253whp is the highest. Granted, Its just a big spike, and not a useable number. But that goes to show that for $200 used, there is at least 20hp to be found over my K03, and that is AWESOME.

Solaris
01-19-2008, 05:31 AM
Using just an APR chip, when I swapped in the K04, I had a large difference in MAF g/s and it was a noticeable difference in power. When I switched to the GIAC K04 tuning w/ 5bar FPR, the only difference I noticed was in the 6000 to 7000 RPM range, where it obviously pulled more. My CAPS times didn't show any big difference, though.

I'm not making any predictions, but the ECU can adapt to small changes and if the K03S really is that similar to a K04 (I never looked into it all), you could notice a power increase by just putting the turbo in.

dingguhlbary
01-19-2008, 11:02 AM
i really dont think you would notice power just by swapping turbos and using the same software. there could have been a placebo effect. but im glad you might have gotten power by switching to giac.

but about the ko3s, the difference between it and the ko4. its seriously so cheap for the power gains

Solaris
01-19-2008, 11:11 AM
Before, with the K03, I saw max 157g/s. With the K04, I was hitting 187. You're saying there was probably no power gain with that much difference in airflow? Others have reported the same results using APR software.

Burntaudi
01-19-2008, 11:51 AM
You cannot compare what transverse VW guys are doing with their K03 sports. They are not the same turbo as the K03 sport that fit's our cars. Besides different motor, different turbo, different car, FWD....ETC...ETC...ETC. Not comparable by a long shot.

grip_racer
01-19-2008, 12:43 PM
what are you on about? thats untrue. the inlets and outlets on the turbos are different, thats all. that doesn't affect anything but pipe routing.

the AEB should make even more power than their small-port motors if i put a K03s on and tune like they do. I can't use Lemmiwinks? oh well.

FWD does not determine motor output. (I am FWD)

dingguhlbary
01-19-2008, 03:17 PM
Before, with the K03, I saw max 157g/s. With the K04, I was hitting 187. You're saying there was probably no power gain with that much difference in airflow? Others have reported the same results using APR software.

oh no i thought were just saying you thought you had more power. thought being the keyword

dingguhlbary
01-19-2008, 03:18 PM
FWD does not determine motor output. (I am FWD)

if anything, he'll have more whp due to less drivetrain loss

grip_racer
01-19-2008, 10:37 PM
any more opinions? i like my thread.

grip_racer
01-20-2008, 12:58 AM
oh check this out! Apparently, the 2001 motor makes its 170hp at THE SAME BOOST LEVEL as the 150hp motor. Puts even more faith into putting a K03s on... The VW K03s motors were still only 150hp at 8.7psi... check out the link at the bottom of my post.

Audi Engine Info
Engine Code: AEB,ATW,AUG
Model Years: 1997-2000
Compression Ratio: 9.5:1
Horsepower (SAE Net): 150 @ 5700 RPM
Torque: 155 ft. lbs.@ 1750 RPM
ECU: Motronic ME7.1
DP Size: 50mm (1.97")
Turbo: K03
OE Boost: .6 Bar (8.7psi)

Engine Code: AWM
Model Years: 2001-2005
Compression Ratio: 9.3:1
Horsepower (SAE Net): 170 @ 5900 RPM
Torque: 166 ft. lbs. @ 1950 RPM
ECU: Motronic ME7.1
DP Size: 50mm (1.97")
Turbo: K03s
OE Boost: .6 Bar (8.7psi)

from http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2666114

Solaris
01-20-2008, 06:41 AM
I believe that is incorrect. 2001s run a little more boost stock.

ibew5audi
01-20-2008, 07:00 AM
Variable cam timing was also added with the k03s wasn't it? I read .8 bar for 180hp stock boost (170hp on audi).

Solaris
01-20-2008, 07:20 AM
Variable cam timing was also added with the k03s wasn't it? I read .8 bar for 180hp stock boost (170hp on audi).

Correct, the VVT has something to do with it also.

b5a4lover
01-20-2008, 07:27 AM
vvt is for emissions only, it didn't add power

MikeWasHere05
01-20-2008, 09:21 AM
Some quick information, after a skimming of this thread. There have been dozens of threads on each of these topics, people always believe the wrong information though...

A K04 will have more power than a K03s. Blah blah blah its a hybrid blah, no. K04 > K03s.
VVT was used for emissions only on the 2001MY. The extra 20hp is accountable by more boost from the factory, somewhere around the 9psi vs. 6psi range.

audiness
01-20-2008, 10:54 AM
vvt is for emissions only, it didn't add power



i think you're incorrect about that

grip_racer
01-20-2008, 11:09 AM
i think you're incorrect about that

no, he's correct. VVT was for emissions purposes only. it didn't add power.

It had two modes, normal (like every non-vvt), and massive overlap, to draw exhaust gasses back into the cylinders during cold starts to lower emissions.

AudiRacerS4
01-20-2008, 11:16 AM
i think you're incorrect about that

VVT only works at idle and cruising speeds and it's only for emissions

AudiRacerS4
01-20-2008, 11:18 AM
Some quick information, after a skimming of this thread. There have been dozens of threads on each of these topics, people always believe the wrong information though...

A K04 will have more power than a K03s. Blah blah blah its a hybrid blah, no. K04 > K03s.
VVT was used for emissions only on the 2001MY. The extra 20hp is accountable by more boost from the factory, somewhere around the 9psi vs. 6psi range.

a k04 only nets about 10-15chp more than a k03s