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View Full Version : Another chip question for 1.8t



yoda888
01-16-2008, 11:02 PM
All,
I have a question in regards to chips for the 1.8t.

So I know there are a bunch of different brands of chips out there. And of course opinions are all over the place on what's "good." The recommendation seems like "you can't go wrong with a name brand one as long as a dealer is close to you."

Well, ignoring the possibility of sending your ECU out and having downtime on your car, what is the "smoothest" chip out there? My question is based on this. I don't plan on racing the car all over the place. I really just want more power "on demand" should I need it. I would prefer the power delivery to be smooth vs. "having the turbo kick in" all of a sudden. (does this make sense?)

So yeah, there are some aggressive chips out there, but I want smooth. Any thoughts and insights are appreciated.

Thanks!

Kronic Budz
01-16-2008, 11:20 PM
sorry bud i dont have an answer, but i dont blame you for wanting a nice smooth power band!!

Kyle H
01-16-2008, 11:31 PM
Generally people say GIAC is the best for B5s, APR is next, and unitronic/speedtuning/revo(do they even have a b5 chip?) fall back somwhere behind the two, and nuespeed really isn't on the same level (doesn't boost as high).

Go with GIAC. [up]

biketsai
01-16-2008, 11:39 PM
I have heard that GIAC has a really smooth powerband compared to the APR (which I have)

grip_racer
01-17-2008, 12:28 AM
HAHA and I have heard that APR has a really smooth powerband compared to the GIAC (which I have)

fancy that.

Black_97 A4
01-17-2008, 05:07 AM
I have APR, feels really smooth to me..

Seerlah
01-17-2008, 06:09 AM
GIAC is the recommended chip for the B5. What you should do is get the forge diverter valve (after market dv will be needed with chip). They have the option of changing spring rates for the way boost is delivered. If you want a more smoother ride, then switch to the yellow spring. If you want more aggresive, stay with the green spring. Yellow spring will have you peak boost at around 18 psi. The green will have you peak around 23 psi. But if you stay with the green, the boost tends to surge. You can cure this with mbc or n75h.

*I think this is correct

devmaster
01-17-2008, 07:23 AM
GIAC is the recommended chip for the B5. What you should do is get the forge diverter valve (after market dv will be needed with chip). They have the option of changing spring rates for the way boost is delivered. If you want a more smoother ride, then switch to the yellow spring. If you want more aggresive, stay with the green spring. Yellow spring will have you peak boost at around 18 psi. The green will have you peak around 23 psi. But if you stay with the green, the boost tends to surge. You can cure this with mbc or n75h.

*I think this is correct

i think we've went over this before.. the springs will not increase your BOOST!

they just determine how much boost gets let off before the engine.. and with a Ko3, 23psi would be pointless..
and an aftermarket DV valve is not needed u can get the DV off a 225hp TT for cheaper, and its diaprham design is 10x more smooth than piston based design of the forge.
and yes GIAC is the prefered chip

Nor_Cal_Driver
01-17-2008, 07:30 AM
I have had APR and now have GIAC, the APR 1.0 bar did have smoother power delivery IMO, just died off quicker.

yoda888
01-17-2008, 10:03 AM
First, thanks for everyone's input thus far. I knew we'd get into "APR is smoother than GIAC" and "GIAC is smoother than APR" debate. [:D] Does anyone who has driven with both have a comment?

Can I just run the n75 DV valve with either GIAC/APR and get a smooth powerband?

My goal really is to keep it from having the "smooth delivery, then BAM, boost comes on." [drive]





GIAC is the recommended chip for the B5. What you should do is get the forge diverter valve (after market dv will be needed with chip). They have the option of changing spring rates for the way boost is delivered. If you want a more smoother ride, then switch to the yellow spring. If you want more aggresive, stay with the green spring. Yellow spring will have you peak boost at around 18 psi. The green will have you peak around 23 psi. But if you stay with the green, the boost tends to surge. You can cure this with mbc or n75h.

*I think this is correct

Black_97 A4
01-17-2008, 10:26 AM
Nor Cal said he had APR and Giac and APR was smoother..

pinky
01-17-2008, 11:33 AM
my unitronic is pretty smooth.. i've heard its smoother than revo/giac on other applications, but havent actually driven anything else

audiluxary
01-17-2008, 11:46 AM
I have a APR chip with the N75 "H" valve which is a more agressive valve. I have the Forge 007 DV with the yellow spring in presently and I spike around 20 psi and settle between 16 and 18 psi. The boost is pretty smooth for the most part I would actually like somthing more aggresive. I ran the green spring for a while but switched and I'm sure which one I liked better. I might try some of the spacers and see how it works. My psi drop off pretty quick but I'm sure it's because of the of the K03s. Any responce on the best spring /spacers to use would help. All in all the APR chip pretty smoth to answer your question.

ceas
01-17-2008, 11:55 AM
Dahlback for life.. ha. Its plenty smooth with more power than the other chips.

Grangalan
01-17-2008, 12:01 PM
I have a APR chip with the N75 "H" valve which is a more agressive valve. I have the Forge 007 DV with the yellow spring in presently and I spike around 20 psi and settle between 16 and 18 psi. The boost is pretty smooth for the most part I would actually like somthing more aggresive. I ran the green spring for a while but switched and I'm sure which one I liked better. I might try some of the spacers and see how it works. My psi drop off pretty quick but I'm sure it's because of the of the K03s. Any responce on the best spring /spacers to use would help. All in all the APR chip pretty smoth to answer your question.


I agree on the APR chip being smoother since i have one. my buddy has a giacx chip and it rips hard. As far as the H valve, Well it is an upgrade yes, and yes it does give a bit more boost hence why youre at 16-18 psi like me. However it's actually a smoother valve compared to the J valve.

As far as the springs on the forge (which i have as well) They wont change a thing as far as giving you more boost. The green spring is only good for 15 psi. The yellow was a bit too stiff for me. I used 2 spacers on my green spring to hold the 18psi while still blowing off smoother than the yellow spring.

Nebone
01-17-2008, 12:04 PM
I have APR and spike around 16-17 psi and hold 14-15 psi. It is plenty smooth for the sheer fact that the K03 will not suddenly erupt with massive power. I’ve had mine for well over 2 years and I’m happy with the power and drivability. I wouldn’t change to another chip just to gain a different (smoothness) it all comes down to the same power level. Only difference happens when a different turbo is put in. APR gets my vote.

Calisto
01-17-2008, 12:25 PM
Dahlback for life.. ha. Its plenty smooth with more power than the other chips.

how long have you had the dahlback, im am debating between that and GIAC

dspl1236
01-17-2008, 12:53 PM
my unitronic is pretty smooth.. i've heard its smoother than revo/giac on other applications, but havent actually driven anything else

[up]

i have driven giac, apr, and unitronic. apr and giac seem smooth, but bring the boost very quick. unitronic was the smoothest by far, built boost a tiny bit slower, but sustained boost longer. all were dbw

Russell2686
01-17-2008, 01:27 PM
wow im surprised how many people answered

yoda888
01-17-2008, 01:49 PM
Come'on! It's a good question! [:D]

So I think I'll do an APR with the n75 DV I guess.

If all the chips are fairly close to each other in terms of peak HP/torque, then the real clincher is smoothness. +100HP doesn't matter if it's only available at 7000RPM. [down]




wow im surprised how many people answered

Grangalan
01-17-2008, 01:50 PM
I have APR and spike around 16-17 psi and hold 14-15 psi. It is plenty smooth for the sheer fact that the K03 will not suddenly erupt with massive power. I’ve had mine for well over 2 years and I’m happy with the power and drivability.

Somewhat true. However chipped ECU's control the wastegate in different ways which is what determines how much and how fast you see the boost.



I wouldn’t change to another chip just to gain a different (smoothness) it all comes down to the same power level.

*scratches head* im a little confused what you mean. Are you saying that you wouldnt change chips just to get a different degree of smoothness. Or are you saying that in the end, different chips have the same power level. If thats the case youre mighty wrong hehe.

ceas
01-17-2008, 02:34 PM
how long have you had the dahlback, im am debating between that and GIAC

I've had it for about a year and a half now, and aliel (previous software owner, that sold to me) also loved the software as well. Its awesome software though, and no problems at all. With the n75 race I'm around 19-20psi, usually it'll hold around 18 or so.

Nor_Cal_Driver
01-17-2008, 06:12 PM
I will expand on my point, I had APR for 6 months and switched to GIAC for the sheer fact that the boost came on stronger and made power longer. I'd say the APR keeps the turbo happier by using high boost only in the ko3's peak efficiency range as apposed to GIAC which just lets you ring the piss out of it, this is much more useful when coupled to a free flow exhaust, makes the 1.8 feel a little more like a high revving motor then just falling flat on it's face like my car did with stock exhaust and both programs with the APR being worse.

Nebone
01-17-2008, 07:26 PM
*scratches head* im a little confused what you mean. Are you saying that you wouldnt change chips just to get a different degree of smoothness. Or are you saying that in the end, different chips have the same power level. If thats the case youre mighty wrong hehe.

These turbos have a top hp level that they can achieve due to the small amount of air they pump. All the software makers make most efficient power of these turbos and usually come very close to each other but differ in the way the power gets delivered. Lets get dyno plots of all these different K03 programs and lets compare and not depend on the butt dyno alone :)

The K03s turbo should have more custom software which should create more power than regular K03 due to its K04 compressor.

People ran K04 software with a K03 and ran rich as a bastard since the turbo would just not supply the air to meet the demand and match the fuel.

Why don't people just switch to a different chip if they want more power? They really don't since its not a bang for a buck anymore. The car might feel different but thats it. Whoever wants more power they have to step up to K04 and bigger with more mods and software. Strong K04 setup is only ~30whp different than good K03 setup and about a second faster in 1/4 mile.

Different software will not make a substantial difference when switching from one to another. However, for first time buyers, they can choose and pick which software would suit them best from a post like this.

A4Rollin
01-17-2008, 07:37 PM
I will expand on my point, I had APR for 6 months and switched to GIAC for the sheer fact that the boost came on stronger and made power longer. I'd say the APR keeps the turbo happier by using high boost only in the ko3's peak efficiency range as apposed to GIAC which just lets you ring the piss out of it, this is much more useful when coupled to a free flow exhaust, makes the 1.8 feel a little more like a high revving motor then just falling flat on it's face like my car did with stock exhaust and both programs with the APR being worse.
Im not understanding what you said. Are you saying that the GIAC chip is only reliable with a full exhaust??? What program were you using when your car "fell on its face"? What do you mean APR being the worst? As in program wise, hp/tq wise, reliability wise??? And are you saying APR is worse when you dont have exhaust? Could you just clear this up, hopefully im not the only one confused here.

Grangalan
01-17-2008, 07:55 PM
The apr was a killer deal which is why i bought it. Eventually im either going K04+hammer or GIACX with stock k03s.

I'm hearing mighty good things about the hammer file.

Nor_Cal_Driver
01-17-2008, 08:01 PM
Im not understanding what you said. Are you saying that the GIAC chip is only reliable with a full exhaust??? What program were you using when your car "fell on its face"? What do you mean APR being the worst? As in program wise, hp/tq wise, reliability wise??? And are you saying APR is worse when you dont have exhaust? Could you just clear this up, hopefully im not the only one confused here.

I'm sure both programs would fair well with exhaust, however both programs seemed to really die out with stock exhaust at the end of the rev counter although the APR fell of much earlier. When I had my exhaust installed on my GIAC equipped car the falling on it's face so to speak got much better or I caught myself shifting much closer to 7K rather the 5700 shift point I used with stock exhaust. I like the GIAC better but the APR seems to be better for the motor and more so better for the little turbo because it's less abusive to it. Hope this helps.

A4Rollin
01-17-2008, 08:14 PM
I'm sure both programs would fair well with exhaust, however both programs seemed to really die out with stock exhaust at the end of the rev counter although the APR fell of much earlier. When I had my exhaust installed on my GIAC equipped car the falling on it's face so to speak got much better or I caught myself shifting much closer to 7K rather the 5700 shift point I used with stock exhaust. I like the GIAC better but the APR seems to be better for the motor and more so better for the little turbo because it's less abusive to it. Hope this helps.
alright that helps. Point being, i have had GIAC on a k04 setup on a previous 98' A4. So in this case im not too sure how a K03s holds up with this software. I do like GIAC and know what you mean by it "lets you ring the piss out of it." From your sig, i have the same (01.5' 1.8TQM) with south bend stg3/LWFW, full 2.5" exhaust and want to know how your car is holdin up with the chip. You said its harsh on the motor and turbo but in what ways do you think it "can" affect it in the longrun or even at the moment? Thanks for all the help man

Nor_Cal_Driver
01-17-2008, 08:22 PM
The car is holding up well (knocks on wood). As far as I know it was chipped from day one. I bought it with thirty something thousand miles on it and it had an APR chip, I changed it 7 or 8 thousand miles later to GIAC, I now have 94K. I'd say the GIAC is harder on the motor because it seems to let you use the turbo more out of it's efficiency range which would seem to be tough on the k03, but I talked to a guy at 200K miles with a chipped k03 and it just started to smoke so it could go either way. I say how you treat it is more important, oil quality, warm up before full boost and cool down etc.

A4Rollin
01-17-2008, 08:31 PM
thanks for the information, clears up a couple questions i had!

Also, if this guy comes through with a RS4 bumper next week ill be selling my stock bumper if your still looking for one. Let me know[up]

Nor_Cal_Driver
01-17-2008, 08:36 PM
thanks for the information, clears up a couple questions i had!

Also, if this guy comes through with a RS4 bumper next week ill be selling my stock bumper if your still looking for one. Let me know[up]

I am still looking for a bumper, I found a black one for pretty good deal though, what color do you have? (I need silver)

A4Rollin
01-17-2008, 08:40 PM
close but no cigar... I have a white one

Nebone
01-17-2008, 09:17 PM
The 1.8T is a detuned engine from the factory. Aftermarket software lets it run as it was intended to. These engines love boost and hi revving.

Chips don't kill engines, people kill engines.

Nor_Cal_Driver
01-17-2008, 09:32 PM
The 1.8T is a detuned engine from the factory. Aftermarket software lets it run as it was intended to. These engines love boost and hi revving. . .

It's to bad the ko3 doesn't like the high revs, that was the first thing I had to get used to when coming form a Prelude with an H22.

dualaudi
01-18-2008, 11:31 AM
I've had Neuspeed / giac / apr on my k03. Go GIAC for the off chance you might ever want to upgrade and resale value of the chip. To say the giac is more aggressive (less smooth) than the apr is a MUTE point.

You only feel the aggressiveness when you're FLOORING it, if you're not flooring it like normal day driving it's gradual power, if you are flooring it, you're doing it for a reason (MORE POWER FASTER)

Go gaic!