Pricing Frustration (m3 & is-f announced)

[switchface]

*sigh* ok...

I have no problem paying more money for something if it warrants it: gimme a Ruth's Chris steak and a glass of Caymus and Im a happy dude.

I have no problem paying more money for something if its rediculous: I bought a rabbit-lined Juicy Couture hoodie because it was the most comfortable thing ive ever put on...despite the fact I mocked it for 20 mins before donning it.

In looking for a new car, I was enticed by the 335 coupe's engine and price point (you've all read my comments on the car compared to the S5). Yet everytime I see the S5 I get weak in the knees. I say to myself: "suck it up, make more money, spoil yourself...it may not be the best value out there, but its a loaded all around package that you really want." Perhaps I've come to live with this train of thought.

Then BMW announces the new M3 for $54k sedan and $57k coupe, and the Lexus is right there too at $57k. I know you'll have to pay for options separate, I know the interiors won't be as nice, I know _________, etc...

My point is, Audi's seem to be priced a tad too high lately (TTS estimated for $60k!?). I know you get what you pay for, but the money factor is horrible on leases as well. Even the Audi salesmen will agree it hinders their ability to move a good product.

Fuck me...its late and now im rambling. Just pissed I cant afford what I want and the 'competition' seems to have come well under what was predicted ($62-64k range).

Thoughts?

[toaster]

a toyota is the best deal out there! audi ain't about value, it's about owning one of the safest/best performing cars any amount of money can buy.

audi has really been stepping everything up. i do agree that the price on some of audi's new cars may seem a tad bit steep, but i do think audi is the best sub-exotic auto maker out there and i don't think it's completely silly what they are charging for their cars when you consider what you get: audi's interiors blow away anything else out there, the exteriors are striking, and the performance is top notch all-year-round. while perhaps not the fastest by a few milliseconds compared to some "competitors", the all around package that audi makes is untouchable...does anyone else realize how incredible it is that the r8 can come with a bang and olufsen sound system?...nobody else comes close to blending performance and luxury as tasteful as audi does. just work hard, you'll get what you want eventually.

hey, i am moving into nyc soon and i want this:

http://www.conquestadvisors.com//index.cfm?page=details&id=1013

just allow the s5 to motivate you to succeed...as long as we don't lose sight of the things that are really important, i'm all for chasing nice things.

what kind of world is this that we live in where people can't always afford the things they want?

[JunkStory]

The new M3 is RS4 performance for the price of an S5. I think we are all frustrated by Audi's pricing.. especially for us in Canada where the S5 costs $84k after tax and packages.

I can't see VW fulfilling their goal of becoming #1 unless they make their pricings more advantageous.

[CanuckRS]

The new M3 is RS4 performance for the price of an S5. I think we are all frustrated by Audi's pricing.. especially for us in Canada where the S5 costs $84k after tax and packages.

I can't see VW fulfilling their goal of becoming #1 unless they make their pricings more advantageous.

$84K here? Base is about $66K but it is more loaded than the US version and includes B&O, carbon trim, Advanced key.

Optional Equipment of the 2008 Audi S5 (Canadian Version):
• Navigation plus with MMI High / Audi Music Interface (AMI) / Audi advanced parking
with rear view camera
• Audi Side Assist
• Audi Music Interface (AMI) without Navigation incl. cable - delayed introduction
• Brushed aluminium trim
• Vavona wood assam gray trim
• Stainless Steel texture with piano black console
• Leather/Alcantara seating
• Metallic / Pearleffect paint

Maybe another 5K for navigation etc...so 71K plus tax...depends where you live of course, here in Alberta 5%. Looking at around 75K.

[Y2K8V8S5]

Buy the the S5! See how the M3 does whenit rains or snows. and you wont respect yourself in the morning if you buy a lexus. I just picked up mine yesterday and I couldnt sleep. I had to go out and drive it at 2am!!! I had E46 M3,04 A4 Ultra sport, 2006 A4 S-line, 2 911's and a F355 GTB( not all at the same time). The S5 takes the cake. With out question. Go for it!! you only live once!!!!11

[Monizzle]

i see where you're coming from switchface, and i agree completely. A stock 335i can almost give an S5 a run for it's money and as much as i love audi and the new S5 i truly believe pricing is terrible, whether or not they are actually competing with the CLK and 6 series. Lets face facts here, a fully loaded S5 should be out the door at about 54k to make it real competition for anyone. Well once dealerships realize that the majority of people won't pay mark-up and they also realize that invoice is about 5 grand less this car will really move. It would seem Audi is still in denial about the sway of the BMW badge...

[ColdFusion]

Personally, I think both S5 and RS4 are overpriced.[:(]

[Kyokio]

This may not be true for all BMW dealerships.. one "e46fanatic" placed a deposit for a top spot at a dealership. However, when it was time to place his order, the dealer informed him that mark-ups for the m3 were $20k! [down]. He was initially told it would be at msrp.

Original post from E46Fanatic:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=538280

[switchface]

Kyokio - thats true, I didnt take into consideration any markups...but m3s are usually a dime a dozen (not as limited a run as an S car for example) so i wouldnt *think* there'd be a markup. Shows what I know.

Monizzle - fully loaded 54k out the door and I think I would own it. And ya know, its not so much the overall price, b/c as toaster said you get a lot for it, its just the way pricing works itself out. For example, a lease on an S5 was running around $1k/month, no matter how I played with it. Whereas say a $58k BMW (insert brand here) prob only be around $800/month.

toaster - sweet loft brotha...go for it!! soho is a cool area too, id kill for a place like that.

y2k - hehe, i live in socal so no rain or snow here. but no worries, i really dont want to own a BMW because of the stigma (and theyre everywhere)...and you wouldnt catch me dead in a Lexus (no soul).

Oh well....here's hoping my poker game continues supplement my income enough to make the plunge!

[Germanfanatic]

Buy the the S5! See how the M3 does whenit rains or snows. and you wont respect yourself in the morning if you buy a lexus. I just picked up mine yesterday and I couldnt sleep. I had to go out and drive it at 2am!!! I had E46 M3,04 A4 Ultra sport, 2006 A4 S-line, 2 911's and a F355 GTB( not all at the same time). The S5 takes the cake. With out question. Go for it!! you only live once!!!!11

How did your 911 and F355 perform in snow? You can't compare RWD with Quattro in snow. Quattro is definitely going to out perform the RWD. And personally I'm not going to drive a $60K car in snow even if it's got quattro. I don't want that slush and salt on my car and secondly... don't trust other drivers out there on snow and ice. For me I keep a seperate car for winters... my A4 is going to that in few years...

I also believe the S5 and RS4 are overpriced and the reason the leases are so horrible because the residual values on Audi's are bad compared to BMW's.

My $60K will definitely go into M3...

[raulg_usa]

I still need my Audi, either S5/RS5/RS4. No matter the price. I feel a little bad about paying extra on something that other makes sell for less but same performance, but for me the only other option than Audi would be either MB or BMW. I don't really feel for MB, and about the BMW .. love the exterior but I still don't like the interior, at least not compared to my A4 B7. And when I think about the new interior (aka B8) I just see the bimmer far far away to be my next car. And believe me, I still try to like it(I still stop and look inside new 3-series even now, so much later after I saw it first time, still do not like what I see). For me the interior is really important, just as the exterior is, especially when I think how much time I spend inside the car, compared to outside.

I think many Audi guys will switch to the new M3, considering the price and performance. A equally configured M3=63k vs RS4=70k. I really wanna see the price for the new S4 and the RS5.

I also think whoever really likes Audi won't go to the competition. Not cause they have to be loyal, but becuase there is nobody to offer the same all around package (as a daily car) as Audi does. And I am not only talking about being able to drive in wet/snow, that's only a part of what Audi cars do. The new M3 will win a race in the hands of a real professional driver but for a decent/good driver Audi makes more sense.

[JunkStory]

$84K here? Base is about $66K but it is more loaded than the US version and includes B&O, carbon trim, Advanced key.

Optional Equipment of the 2008 Audi S5 (Canadian Version):
• Navigation plus with MMI High / Audi Music Interface (AMI) / Audi advanced parking
with rear view camera
• Audi Side Assist
• Audi Music Interface (AMI) without Navigation incl. cable - delayed introduction
• Brushed aluminium trim
• Vavona wood assam gray trim
• Stainless Steel texture with piano black console
• Leather/Alcantara seating
• Metallic / Pearleffect paint

Maybe another 5K for navigation etc...so 71K plus tax...depends where you live of course, here in Alberta 5%. Looking at around 75K.

Yes I calculated $83.5k after everything is said and done. 13% tax in BC.

[Chris from Cali]

The IS-F might be a good price contender, but you'll have to add another $10K to the M3 to count for options. If you can live with a base, base M3, then it's a great deal. You'll have to order it since no dealer will order a stripped-out model. All are great cars - drive them all and let your heart decide.

[drexplode]

Does anyone really want to row through 8 automatic gears for the IS-F? If this is supposed to be a performance machine, 8 gears sounds like 2-3too many! I dont know...im not really impressed. However, definitely a good thing for competition; make BMW and or Audi meet their standards / pricing.

[Chris from Cali]

Does anyone really want to row through 8 automatic gears for the IS-F? If this is supposed to be a performance machine, 8 gears sounds like 2-3too many! I dont know...im not really impressed. However, definitely a good thing for competition; make BMW and or Audi meet their standards / pricing.

Yeah - the reviews say the car is always hunting for the right gear. I can't imagine Lexus as a performance car to buy over an M3, S5, or RS4. Hell I'd much rather buy a C63 AMG.

[cam]

good luck getting a m3 for 54-57k, the first couple batches of them are going to be fully loaded, and will probablly sticker for close to 70k. bmw's option system sucks and thats where the difference in price is made up as compared to audi. and isnt the lexus only available in auto, or is there a manual option?

[ColdFusion]

good luck getting a m3 for 54-57k, the first couple batches of them are going to be fully loaded, and will probablly sticker for close to 70k. bmw's option system sucks and thats where the difference in price is made up as compared to audi. and isnt the lexus only available in auto, or is there a manual option?

70k? Sorry mate, but it looks like you haven't done your homework.

M3 Sedan MSRP $54,575 (including destination charge)

OPTIONS
---------
Premium Package - $1900
Technology Package- EDC, M Drive, Comfort Access, and navigation system - $3250
19" wheels with performance tires in mixed sizes (style 220) - $1200
Electronic Damping Control (EDC) - $1000
Enhanced Premium Sound - $1900

EXTRAS
--------
Extended Novillo Leather Interior - $2000 or $1100 with Premium Package
M3 Sedan: Moonroof - $1050

I see about 62k for a loaded M3 sedan with Manual Transmission.

[hurahn]

Who are yall racing on a daily? Can I get some of your sponsors? Ultimately, if you test drive all the cars in contention you'll probably get the one that one that moves you the most.

[drexplode]

Yeah - the reviews say the car is always hunting for the right gear. I can't imagine Lexus as a performance car to buy over an M3, S5, or RS4. Hell I'd much rather buy a C63 AMG.

Interesting read:

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/lexus/0710_2008_lexus_is-f/index.html

My favorite quotation:

The brakes are on fire," says a bystander, pointing to the front wheels of my matador red Lexus IS-F as I pull into the pits after a few hard laps at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca. "No, really-they're on fire!"

To wit, first, second, and third are so far apart that you're constantly wishing for another couple of gears in between, especially on slow, twisty roads. Conversely, the higher gears are so closely spaced that half of them seem superfluous. Case in point: when you are cruising at 50 mph in eighth gear, you need to pull the left gearshift paddle six times to downshift to your optimum passing gear.
The wonky front fender vents do nothing to help, nor do the strange-looking, stacked exhaust diffusers in back (don't call them tips, because the mufflers release their gases into the air an inch or two before the rear valance).

[Heyrenzo]

$84K here? Base is about $66K but it is more loaded than the US version and includes B&O, carbon trim, Advanced key.

Optional Equipment of the 2008 Audi S5 (Canadian Version):
• Navigation plus with MMI High / Audi Music Interface (AMI) / Audi advanced parking
with rear view camera
• Audi Side Assist
• Audi Music Interface (AMI) without Navigation incl. cable - delayed introduction
• Brushed aluminium trim
• Vavona wood assam gray trim
• Stainless Steel texture with piano black console
• Leather/Alcantara seating
• Metallic / Pearleffect paint

Maybe another 5K for navigation etc...so 71K plus tax...depends where you live of course, here in Alberta 5%. Looking at around 75K.

What is this Audi Music Interfce (AMI) without Navigation that you are referring to? I'm asking because I've got an A5 on order, and it's practically only for the AMI. I'll change and delay my order if you tell me that later on, the AMI will be offered as a stand-alone option.

Thanks for any info!

[jb2thdoc]

I had to chime in on this one. I ordered my s5 at msrp and it is basically loaded (NAV, Tech, B&O etc.) My price with gas guzzler is 57,990. That is basically fully friggen loaded. I too was interested in the m3. Once they released pricing I called the dealership to get on the list. Two dealerships handily informed me that one would be marking up the m3 $5000 and the other $10000. What a bunch of bull shit. Also, if you similarly equip an m3, you basically have to get every option they offer to compare with the equipment on my s5,which puts the price close to $65000. Factor in the markup, and the dealers have just negated bmws great pricing. Dealers lick. Audi agreed to sell me the car at msrp. I will put up with the minor performance deficit, which I probably will not notice. Also, the m3 currently is not showing a gas guzzler tax, but I can bet that will be there too.

Sorry for the rant.

[PRY4SNO]

Have you seen the IS-F? I mean, come on! It's horrendously ugly! The fake exhaust ports? WTF?

I work at a Lexus dealership and have had the chance to drive (read: flog the ever-lovin'-crap) everything they have. Currently that's the only one eluding me, as it's not been released yet. But what I can tell you is this: the traction control can't be switched off the way it can in an Audi. Sure they'll both cut back in to save your bacon but the Lexus cuts in a thousand times sooner (subjective, but still). Try having fun with the Lexus and you'll find the nanny stopping you. With the BMW at least you can have some fun. Oh, and there's the thing about manual tranny too... no dice with the IS-F. My experience with the flappy-paddle Lexus gear shift hasn't been positive: lurchy into first no matter what, and often when you up-shift it waits for a while before engaging. Come on!

Another thing that most people don't find out about a Lexus until after they've made their purchase is that all across the line they're horrible for squeaks and rattles. Every day I see two or three (typically GS, or LS) high end cars in service for squeaks and rattles. The plastics/composites in the interior are only a tad higher quality than Honda/Acura and that's not saying much. A Golf has better interior trim than a mid-range Lexus. Within the interior the only thing that Lexus has on Audi is the touch-screen nav and (heated/)cooled seats.

Not to mention the IS-F will be limited to 110 mph in Japan and probably a tad higher in the US according to early releases. I can verify that if you're really interested.

The Audi will depreciate the fastest. The BMW is the funnest to drive. The Lexus... well. Ya. It's the most reliable.

But like Chris From Cali said, drive each three and let your ass-dyno and heart decide.

[s4raf88]

a toyota is the best deal out there! audi ain't about value, it's about owning one of the safest/best performing cars any amount of money can buy.

audi has really been stepping everything up. i do agree that the price on some of audi's new cars may seem a tad bit steep, but i do think audi is the best sub-exotic auto maker out there and i don't think it's completely silly what they are charging for their cars when you consider what you get: audi's interiors blow away anything else out there, the exteriors are striking, and the performance is top notch all-year-round. while perhaps not the fastest by a few milliseconds compared to some "competitors", the all around package that audi makes is untouchable...does anyone else realize how incredible it is that the r8 can come with a bang and olufsen sound system?...nobody else comes close to blending performance and luxury as tasteful as audi does. just work hard, you'll get what you want eventually.

hey, i am moving into nyc soon and i want this:

http://www.conquestadvisors.com//index.cfm?page=details&id=1013

just allow the s5 to motivate you to succeed...as long as we don't lose sight of the things that are really important, i'm all for chasing nice things.

what kind of world is this that we live in where people can't always afford the things they want?



I always agree with your comments when I read them, but you said one thing that is not true..."it's about owning one of the safest/best performing cars any amount of money can buy. while they are safe they are not the best performance for the money...other than that I agree with you[az]

[switchface]

Some of you can chill with pointing out the lexus's (lexi?) flaws...im not considering one. I go german with a manual transmission only. I was simply using it to show where the 'performing competition' was as far as price point.

jb2 - was that a deal to get your s5 fully loaded for that price? its late and im too lazy to look it up and add the options. that include tax and gas guzzler?

with the new option to get a car in almost any shade or color...id love to see the s5 in either BMW's carbon black or the new jerez black...both sexy sexy colors that i think would really showcase the lines of the s5.

[jb2thdoc]

"jb2 - was that a deal to get your s5 fully loaded for that price? its late and im too lazy to look it up and add the options. that include tax and gas guzzler?"

That is paying msrp. I ordered mine through livermore audi. They would have given me the price at msrp no matter how I configured the car. That price does include gas guzzler tax but not the sales tax. That price also includes a metallic paint color.

S5 50,500
Quartz grey metallic 475
Gas guzzler tax 1300
B & O 850
Audi navi 2390
Tech package 1700
Destination 775

Total 57990

[FireWire]

Have you seen the IS-F? I mean, come on! It's horrendously ugly! The fake exhaust ports? WTF?

I work at a Lexus dealership and have had the chance to drive (read: flog the ever-lovin'-crap) everything they have. Currently that's the only one eluding me, as it's not been released yet. But what I can tell you is this: the traction control can't be switched off the way it can in an Audi. Sure they'll both cut back in to save your bacon but the Lexus cuts in a thousand times sooner (subjective, but still). Try having fun with the Lexus and you'll find the nanny stopping you. With the BMW at least you can have some fun. Oh, and there's the thing about manual tranny too... no dice with the IS-F. My experience with the flappy-paddle Lexus gear shift hasn't been positive: lurchy into first no matter what, and often when you up-shift it waits for a while before engaging. Come on!

Another thing that most people don't find out about a Lexus until after they've made their purchase is that all across the line they're horrible for squeaks and rattles. Every day I see two or three (typically GS, or LS) high end cars in service for squeaks and rattles. The plastics/composites in the interior are only a tad higher quality than Honda/Acura and that's not saying much. A Golf has better interior trim than a mid-range Lexus. Within the interior the only thing that Lexus has on Audi is the touch-screen nav and (heated/)cooled seats.

Not to mention the IS-F will be limited to 110 mph in Japan and probably a tad higher in the US according to early releases. I can verify that if you're really interested.

The Audi will depreciate the fastest. The BMW is the funnest to drive. The Lexus... well. Ya. It's the most reliable.

But like Chris From Cali said, drive each three and let your ass-dyno and heart decide.

automobiles usually with 400+ bhp is usually limited to 155 mph in the states. sometimes you can take the car a little over that limit , unless you tinker with the ECU to fully unlock its potential 190+ mph.

[jriddle11]

Ok, I know where you are coming from. Let me explain.

My younger brother just bought a 335xi - sticker around $46K
$3,000 down, 36 months, and 15,000 miles per year for $700 a month.

My parents just bought a X5 4.8 - sticker around $80K
$3,000 down, 36 months, and 12,000 miles per year for around $850 a month.

I am wanting to get a new B7 S4 or a B8 A4 when they come out, so I stop by my local dealer (who has always been good to me).
08 S4 - Sticker around $52K
3,000 down, 48 months, 12K per year for around $900/month.

Granded my parents got a steal of deal, because the X5 was ordered in by a customer who backed out, so the dealer wanted it off the floor. I am very impressed with my brothers 335xi and I think if I got a fully loaded one that would be around $52K my payment for 3years would be around $800.

Saving of $100 per month for 3 years = $3,600 plus I can get out of the car 1 year earlier $10,800, an 9,000 extra miles I can drive, and ZERO maintenance.

Now I am on my 3rd Audi and I love the look of the new B8 A4 and S4 so I am going to wait until they comes out before I buy my next car, but I hope Audi steps up with their lease rates. If not I may be buying a new BMW.

[jriddle11]

This may not be true for all BMW dealerships.. one "e46fanatic" placed a deposit for a top spot at a dealership. However, when it was time to place his order, the dealer informed him that mark-ups for the m3 were $20k! [down]. He was initially told it would be at msrp.

Original post from E46Fanatic:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=538280
I would never pay over sticker for a car.

[raulg_usa]

I would never pay over sticker for a car.

My dealer sold their (single) R8 at 30k over the sticker. And I heard other R8 sold by far much more. They had over 20 buyers, they basically sold it to the one giving out the most cash ...

The new M3 will be the same, although nobody will overpay it with 30,000$; still the car sells quite good and dealers know that, will add a little for them self in the process.

So, although you won't pay over sticker ever, plenty of people will. Prices will settle down at the MSRP range after a while.

[Chris from Cali]

My dealer sold their (single) R8 at 30k over the sticker. And I heard other R8 sold by far much more. They had over 20 buyers, they basically sold it to the one giving out the most cash ...

The new M3 will be the same, although nobody will overpay it with 30,000$; still the car sells quite good and dealers know that, will add a little for them self in the process.

So, although you won't pay over sticker ever, plenty of people will. Prices will settle down at the MSRP range after a while.

If a dealer is so mercenary as to sell to the highest bidder, they should be an auction house, not a car dealer. If my most favorite, desirable, dream car went on sale tomorrow and the dealer wanted more than MSRP, I would skip it. It's a matter of principle.

Fortunately, I have a GREAT relationship with my local high-end dealer, so I'll get sticker at MOST when I but my next car (Porsche or Aston).

[raulg_usa]

If a dealer is so mercenary as to sell to the highest bidder, they should be an auction house, not a car dealer. If my most favorite, desirable, dream car went on sale tomorrow and the dealer wanted more than MSRP, I would skip it. It's a matter of principle.

Fortunately, I have a GREAT relationship with my local high-end dealer, so I'll get sticker at MOST when I but my next car (Porsche or Aston).

They do not usually do stuff like this, but in this case they only got one car.I got my A4 much under MSRP, so I was happy at the time. That's not an excuse, I don't really care after all what's up with the dealer. But since so many people were interested in the R8 even OVER the sticker, it seems not everyone thinks like you. If u realize u really like the R8, you have the money for it and u wanna buy it, you could just spend 30k over the regular price just so u can get it in less then 1-2 years (or how long the waiting list for the R8 is). Some might consider it just fair, or at least the guy who got it didn't care too much about his dollars. It's basically the demand, if the demand is too big, the prices go up. And that's not only this dealer, it's the basic principle of any economy in the world right now.

[Chris from Cali]

I hear you - the dealer has the right do what they want. I also have the right to spend my money elsewhere. I just couldn't be happy (unless I was REALLY rich) spending 25% over the cost of the car just to get one.

[Titanium]

They do not usually do stuff like this, but in this case they only got one car.I got my A4 much under MSRP, so I was happy at the time. That's not an excuse, I don't really care after all what's up with the dealer. But since so many people were interested in the R8 even OVER the sticker, it seems not everyone thinks like you. If u realize u really like the R8, you have the money for it and u wanna buy it, you could just spend 30k over the regular price just so u can get it in less then 1-2 years (or how long the waiting list for the R8 is). Some might consider it just fair, or at least the guy who got it didn't care too much about his dollars. It's basically the demand, if the demand is too big, the prices go up. And that's not only this dealer, it's the basic principle of any economy in the world right now.

Hey man, whats up with the car in your signature? I didn't know BMW made the M6 with quattro. Shame on them! [:D]

[raulg_usa]

Hey man, whats up with the car in your signature? I didn't know BMW made the M6 with quattro. Shame on them! [:D]

Shame on them indeed. Not because of the quattro, which is the best out there, but for having the tiny small 2.0T engine in the M6. From what BMW said they would never use turbos on their precious engines, no way, turbos suck; too bad they lost their word and went for the 3.0TT and the 2.0T now. Also, there is word about M5 having some turbos in the future, what about BMW never building a M car with a turbo engine? I guess ... your are right :) Shame!!!

[:D]

[Rapter]

I would never pay over sticker for a car.

Years ago when I worked for a BMW dealership the Z8 came out. The owner of the dealership wasn't sure if he wanted to keep it so it sat on the showroom floor. Many of people offered well over sticker. One person offered very close to 100k over sticker, but the owner refused it. I thought he was crazy, but I guess he was wealthy enough where he didn't care about money. Funny thing is not too much later they sold it for over invoice, but only half of what the highest bidder offered not too much before that.

[marcus1701]

Ok, I know where you are coming from. Let me explain.

My younger brother just bought a 335xi - sticker around $46K
$3,000 down, 36 months, and 15,000 miles per year for $700 a month.

My parents just bought a X5 4.8 - sticker around $80K
$3,000 down, 36 months, and 12,000 miles per year for around $850 a month.

I am wanting to get a new B7 S4 or a B8 A4 when they come out, so I stop by my local dealer (who has always been good to me).
08 S4 - Sticker around $52K
3,000 down, 48 months, 12K per year for around $900/month.

Granded my parents got a steal of deal, because the X5 was ordered in by a customer who backed out, so the dealer wanted it off the floor. I am very impressed with my brothers 335xi and I think if I got a fully loaded one that would be around $52K my payment for 3years would be around $800.

Saving of $100 per month for 3 years = $3,600 plus I can get out of the car 1 year earlier $10,800, an 9,000 extra miles I can drive, and ZERO maintenance.

Now I am on my 3rd Audi and I love the look of the new B8 A4 and S4 so I am going to wait until they comes out before I buy my next car, but I hope Audi steps up with their lease rates. If not I may be buying a new BMW.

When it came to cars for my parents and my sister my dad just asked me to find them a car since they really could care less what they drive. I guess I'm the only car person in the family but suffice it to say I recommended all BMWs mainly the 3 series since that really is all what BMW is about...M3s and 3 series. Being the car guy I am....I would always opt for an Audi for its emotional designs. Audi pricing is moving towards being the premium luxury automaker. Their sales keep on growing....I really like how Audi is the alternative and that is one of the sole reasons I love them, and pricing seems to keep cars like the R8 and S5 even more special. If you buy one, there's something nice about having a car not everyone has i.e. my family my neighbors, kids at school...god every time I see a Bmw I think "there goes another Consumer Guides subscriber." I really wish I could get an S5 now, but I gotta save up for a house. I'd drive it every single day and think about all day when I'm not.

[switchface]

Totally agree Marcus, from a money standpoint BMWs (335 for example) make total sense...however, my emotional side says Audi (S5 specifically). I hate that every other car I see here in socal is a 3 series. I have yet to see any A/S5s on the road.

Thats it, I cant take it...I'm putting my life savings on my Giants to beat the Pats in the superbowl...hello S5!!

[TheBlueMartin]

dont knock the IS-F untill you drive it. The gear hunting does get a little crazy, but everything else makes up for it...and hopefully the production transmission will be a little better.

[colonelburke]

This my first Audi. I wanted a M3, but needed 4 doors. I love my car, but I just can't shake the whole BMW thing. I've wanted one since I was 16, many moons ago. That said, I will likely dive into an e90 M3 after the pricing settles down. Not a knock against Audi, but something just grabs me about the M3, plus the closest BMW dealer is 45 minutes and the closest Audi dealer is 2.5 hours away. Timing service with business trips is dicey.

[jriddle11]

So, although you won't pay over sticker ever, plenty of people will. Prices will settle down at the MSRP range after a while.[/QUOTE]

I know that plenty of people will pay over sticker for a car, and I have no problem with a dealer charging over sticker if they can get it.

I love the R8, but for that price I could chose from several different highend coupes and pay sticker.

[jriddle11]

I agree with both of you in the fact that I love the interior and exterior look of my and other Audi's versus the BMW. IMO the 3 series, c-class, IS, and A4 are all comparable so their payments need to similar. Audi picked up sales from BMW and MB because of great lease rates in the past, and I thing BMW is now getting more aggressive with their rates.

[BIGGY]

The big problems with the IS-F for me is that there is no manual option. Lexus makes it pretty clear that they do not want the enthusiast and leave manual out. Seems to me that makes a pretty clear statement when you don't put manual cars out there. Normally that's fine, but here you have the IS-F which is all about performance, but no manual option? Just seems strange.

[meinblaus4]

it's all about the paddles man. f1 cars don't have stick shift, are those drivers not enthusiastic about driving?

[BIGGY]

it's all about the paddles man. f1 cars don't have stick shift, are those drivers not enthusiastic about driving?

No, they are not enthusiast cars. F1 car is an F1 car, it's as much of a car as my racing motorcycle is equivalent to a street motorcycle. I have no lights or street plastics on it, I run water wetter instead of straight coolant, the oil is changed about every 2 weeks on it, and it has a few thousand in suspension work alone which is a fair amount for a bike. By no means would I relate my racing bike with my street bike. 2 totally different beasts. On the track your goal is speed and handling. On the roads I don't need speed shifting or true race suspension.

[meinblaus4]

No, they are not enthusiast cars. F1 car is an F1 car, it's as much of a car as my racing motorcycle is equivalent to a street motorcycle. I have no lights or street plastics on it, I run water wetter instead of straight coolant, the oil is changed about every 2 weeks on it, and it has a few thousand in suspension work alone which is a fair amount for a bike. By no means would I relate my racing bike with my street bike. 2 totally different beasts. On the track your goal is speed and handling. On the roads I don't need speed shifting or true race suspension.

[confused]so, they're not enthusiastic to get behind the wheel?
-Michael Shumacher -"Fuck! gotta go to work today, drivin'"
-Michael Shumachers buddy- "sucks to be you man, i get to clank thru gears and feathering my clutch till it's smoked in rush-hour traffic then get to sit behind a desk in an air conditioned cubicle ALLLLL DAAYY!"
-Michael Shumacher -"LUCKY BASTARD!"

if your goal on the road isn't speed and handling, why not buy a kia?

[lodit]

Totally agree Marcus, from a money standpoint BMWs (335 for example) make total sense...however, my emotional side says Audi (S5 specifically). I hate that every other car I see here in socal is a 3 series. I have yet to see any A/S5s on the road.

Thats it, I cant take it...I'm putting my life savings on my Giants to beat the Pats in the superbowl...hello S5!!

Do you have an announcement to make?

Giants won 17-14...or did you renege on your statement to bet your life savings?

Can't wait to see the new pics.

[switchface]

Do you have an announcement to make?

Giants won 17-14...or did you renege on your statement to bet your life savings?

Can't wait to see the new pics.

What a game...absolutely perfect!! [:D]

...my roommate was in Vegas, raged a little too much, and never threw down my bet..fuckin pissed. [headbang]

HOW BOUT MY GMEN!!

http://a57.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/3/l_7853b611fa85eccd431c3998ccf9abe0.jpg