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View Full Version : looking for torsen diff info....



k0mpresd
01-11-2008, 05:29 PM
is it really that simple to receive 4:1? just by swapping some washers?

http://torsen.com/fsae/fsaefaqframes.htm


For the 012000, the torque bias ratio is about 2.6:1 in drive (throttle-on) and 4:1 in coast mode (drop-throttle/reverse) if the differential is mounted in the car with the large input spline toward the left (normally considered driver’s side). Switching the thrust washers that are situated between the side gears and differential housing end for end will reverse the torque bias ratio for drive and coast modes. This gives a drive mode increase in TBR that is normally favorable for this type of car. If the large spline is on the right when installed in the car, then the washers are already in the correct location to do this.

also..does anyone have any info regarding this post? http://forums.audiworld.com/racing/msgs/21383.phtml ..dimensions of the washer(s) being changed or possibly a place to find the info?

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/photo-65.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/photo-67.jpg

and why is this one marked 3.1-4.2?

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/photo-66.jpg

thanks for any info

johnnybravoa4
01-11-2008, 06:29 PM
thats way out of my leauge.. Ill ask some of the guys on the stage 3 forum.. they may know..

k0mpresd
01-11-2008, 06:55 PM
im going to guess they remove the teflon coated washer and add a machined washer of same dimension (or maybe different but doubt it) in place of teflon one

maxspeed
01-11-2008, 09:29 PM
wow, i had now idea it was just swapping washers, i might have to do this

k0mpresd
01-11-2008, 09:46 PM
ones of my friends always thought it was adding tension to the assembly...turns out he was right...

i remember reading these.. http://audizine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2105838&postcount=64 ... http://audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=168868&highlight=torsen

but it didnt really make sense until today..and that thread talks about 2 piece diff housings..both the ppl that say they did it used them and one refers to 1 piece housing as "pita" and the other says "no first hand experience w/ them"

and 1 piece housing doesnt appear to use needle bearing..the piece that is changed in the 2 piece housing...so im totally confused..the reason why i guessed the teflon washers in the 1 piece housing

:(

maxspeed
01-11-2008, 10:18 PM
someone just recently did this with the diff from the audi 90, said its a 2 piece housing thats a direct fit

never mind, thats the thread you posted hahaha

k0mpresd
01-11-2008, 10:20 PM
and i am not interested in 2 piece housing

we had spare 1 piece housing...

and i like a good challenge anyways :)

UCFQuattroguy
01-12-2008, 05:51 AM
I think I'll chime in here...I was the one here on AZ as well as AW that very recently did one from a 90Q. I have not attempted to mod the diff out of my 2001 (as it's harder to get into), but yes, in the one-piece diff you're swapping out the Teflon coated washers for steel washers machined to the same dimension. If you've got the older style you're swapping out a pair of needle bearing washers with flat steel washers (again, same dimension).

Quick question on that one-piece I see disassembled: HTF did you get into that thing? My understanding is that you cut a notch in the retaining pins, then just bang the shite out of it until you pop out the spiral pin that holds it in place? I have not done mine yet (reason I'm still running around with the older diff in my car) as I really haven't researched how to get replacement spiral pins..nevermind getting them back in their place.

k0mpresd
01-12-2008, 05:53 AM
my speculations were confirmed

this project is a go :)

k0mpresd
01-12-2008, 05:56 AM
Quick question on that one-piece I see disassembled: HTF did you get into that thing? My understanding is that you cut a notch in the retaining pins, then just bang the shite out of it until you pop out the spiral pin that holds it in place? I have not done mine yet (reason I'm still running around with the older diff in my car) as I really haven't researched how to get replacement spiral pins..nevermind getting them back in their place.
;)

be creative

notching the pins is not how we did it...it was very easy though

pm if youd like :)

edit: thank you for the info btw :)

317ssayzarc
01-12-2008, 11:18 AM
;)

be creative

notching the pins is not how we did it...it was very easy though

pm if youd like :)

edit: thank you for the info btw :)

since the project is a go, wanna machine up a second set of washers for me? ill paypal you right now if you want... [up]

k0mpresd
01-12-2008, 11:33 AM
i believe your car has 2 piece torsen stock

pm ucfquattro...he may be able to help you ;)

im not sure if the washers are same size 1 piece vs 2 piece housing

the info to do it yourself is out there though if youre serious about having them made

but to answer your question...there will be extra sets of washers available after 1 working diff is produced :)

317ssayzarc
01-12-2008, 11:40 AM
i believe your car has 2 piece torsen stock

pm ucfquattro...he may be able to help you ;)

im not sure if the washers are same size 1 piece vs 2 piece housing

the info to do it yourself is out there though if youre serious about having them made

but to answer your question...there will be extra sets of washers available after 1 working diff is produced :)

dimensions are the same, i read the last thread about this... like i said, ill pay... i dont have either the time or resources at the moment...

k0mpresd
01-12-2008, 12:07 PM
you will be first person i contact when they are ready...word ? :)

i have no clue on cost though.....

or you could mail us your diff ;) haha ..i would love to get my hands on 2 piece diff..just to compare the 1 vs 2 piece housings

glad you are interested in this project as well :)

Audii-Dudii
01-12-2008, 12:15 PM
i would love to get my hands on 2 piece diff..just to compare the 1 vs 2 piece housings

If you're willing to trade a set of machined washers for the loan, then I have a two-piece one from a A4 2.8 tranny I might be willing to lend you as I'd like to put it into my '04 A4 3.0 and don't have the time right now to source a set of them myself. Send me a PM if you're interested and we can discuss it ...

k0mpresd
01-12-2008, 12:24 PM
sent you a pm

317ssayzarc
01-12-2008, 02:29 PM
you can have my diff, idc... just throw some washers in there lol

k0mpresd
01-12-2008, 03:14 PM
if working washers are sourced and 1 working torsen is produced i promise i will post and let you know :)

honestly until then i dont want to bite off more than can chew so to speak.....

this is totally new for me and the guy helping me w/ it....yesterday was the first time id seen a torsen in person

it was just an idea i had..so im pursuing it..seems like a realistic enough goal :)

317ssayzarc
01-12-2008, 03:30 PM
well i have an extra 2 peice torsen laying around... let me know ;)

k0mpresd
01-12-2008, 04:03 PM
im still a bit confused in a small area...i think i have all the info i need but it doesnt quite make sense...i want it to make sense so i feel comfortable w/ project as a whole

you will prob here from me though ;)

317ssayzarc
01-12-2008, 04:11 PM
im still a bit confused in a small area...i think i have all the info i need but it doesnt quite make sense...i want it to make sense so i feel comfortable w/ project as a whole

you will prob here from me though ;)

i totally understand where you are coming from, take your time when making this decision... this isnt something to be rushed... but i wouldnt mind if i had my washers like,,,,,,,,,,,tommorrow lol...

k0mpresd
01-12-2008, 04:18 PM
preaching to the choir my friend...preaching to the choir ;) hahaha

UCFQuattroguy
01-12-2008, 06:49 PM
be very careful before you guys commit to having washers machined. I had washers machined for both types of diffs and let me be the first to tell you, they're not the same size (Two boxes of washers sit in front of me, "One-Piece Diffs" and "Two-Piece Diffs"). The diffs themselves may be interchangeable, but the insides of them certainly are not. I'm just about as good as ready to go when it comes to setting up some sort of a core exchange deal on modding diffs. I just need to mess around with the one-piece and I can do any Torsen from any Audi. The two-piece diffs are easy as pie to mod, just have to get the gear timing right (it's a bit tricky to get right, or you'll end up with a rather large paperweight)

317ssayzarc
01-12-2008, 07:09 PM
well ill send my diff monday i you want...

k0mpresd
01-12-2008, 07:28 PM
ah..word...makes total sense now.. thank you for that post :)

317..pm me

this is the most exciting project for me in a long time :)

k0mpresd
01-12-2008, 10:03 PM
ucf....sent you a pm..let me know if you have any more questions..

AudiA4_20T
01-13-2008, 09:46 AM
good stuff, i may do this when im not in total debt

317ssayzarc
01-13-2008, 10:00 AM
good stuff, i may do this when im not in total debt

is that ever going to happen [:p]

remember, you still have a BT kit to build [;)]

k0mpresd
01-13-2008, 10:08 AM
who doesnt stay broke? :(

manufan
01-13-2008, 10:23 AM
If you need someone to make these washers you're talking about, just say the word. I'm a tool maker and have an entire machine shop at my disposal. Our capabilities include wire and vertical EDM, CNC milling and turning plus precision grinding. We all have keys to the shop and can go in and make whatever, whenever.

k0mpresd
01-13-2008, 11:21 AM
we have a local shop checking to see if they can make them....if i need your assistance though i will let you know :)

thanks for the offer :)

UCFQuattroguy
01-13-2008, 12:02 PM
FWIW the best way to have the washers machined is via flat magnetic table grinder...

manufan
01-13-2008, 12:20 PM
I can do that with ease. What material are you hoping to make them out of? Is it hardened steel or soft?

k0mpresd
01-13-2008, 01:23 PM
sent pm

UCFQuattroguy
01-13-2008, 02:08 PM
*cough*torsen's website tells you exactly what p/n washers to use*cough*

k0mpresd
01-13-2008, 02:20 PM
*cough*

torsens website lists washer part # and dimension

but dimension of washer we measured from our 01e diff is bigger than what torsen lists

*cough*

;)

care to shed some light on the fact? ..or maybe i missed something ?

UCFQuattroguy
01-13-2008, 04:47 PM
oh, you did miss something. The website gives information for both styles of diff. 012000 Differential = One-piece housing diff; M021DHU Differential = Two-Piece Housing diff.... There you will find the answers you seek.

k0mpresd
01-13-2008, 05:49 PM
i realize that.... ;)

http://torsen.com/fsae/m021dhu_washer.htm , http://torsen.com/fsae/012000_washer.htm

basically same size washer..same f a g part # at least

the washers we measured are much larger .. ??

edit: it really doesnt matter to me either way..i just want to understand why the washers i have are different size than what is listed on the site... the size needed has already been measured and i googled and found a corresponding f a g part # washer ;) ...i googled some more quickly and only found 1 source for the part # and they were in the uk i think..so id rather just have a washer machined from scratch

your responses are very much appreciated btw and frankly, surprising..knowing that you are trying to set this up for a business and still helping me w/ my independent project trying to accomplish the same goal you are..except im doing it for a hobby and for the sake of learning :)

edit again: we disassembled s4 01e part # torsen...is it possible it uses diff size washer than the torsen in my 01a tranny? even though i doubt it does

bassed
01-13-2008, 06:09 PM
Ian I'll try and find a second hand diff and send it to you to do the dirty work if it's cheaper than the Stasis Unit:)

k0mpresd
01-13-2008, 06:16 PM
i want to get the dirty work done on this current diff first haha :(

i was going to try to talk to you last night about our set ups but i got kind of drunk haha..oops..i blame brian :p

317ssayzarc
01-13-2008, 06:19 PM
sent you a pm... do you still want it?

k0mpresd
01-13-2008, 06:23 PM
i think you are as impatient as i am :p

give me a day or two to get things sorted out and i will let you know

this is still a side project for us..normal daily grind to work around :(

UCFQuattroguy
01-14-2008, 05:36 AM
Bassed, I believe you're the guy my former roommate spoke with a little while ago (Shawn)

K0mpresd - Yes, I am trying to do this as a "side-business", however, I do realize that there are those (such as you, and initially myself), who have the abilities/means/etc. to do this yourself. I have no problem with that, I going at the angle of a cheaper alternative for those who want a diff. I've also been considering selling just the washers to those who want to DIY, but have a tough time sourcing the washers and the machining work.

k0mpresd
01-14-2008, 06:02 AM
ucf...i tried to take some pics of the spiral pin to send to you..maybe it would make a bit more sense to you as far as actual disassembly/reassembly..but the only camera i have is my iphone and it doesnt take good close ups :(

we ordered a spiral pin we think will work as a replacement...should be here later today...i will do my best to post comparison shots and provide more info :)

bitterchild
01-14-2008, 06:18 AM
busy little bee

k0mpresd
01-14-2008, 06:27 AM
out from under that rock finally eh? :p

you know im always up to something though..... ;)

k0mpresd
01-14-2008, 09:23 AM
our subi spirol pin was too big :(

sending pm... ;)

Don Supreme
01-14-2008, 09:27 AM
Don't you guys think this mod would negatively affect an all out drag launch? (I know some of you aren't into that, so please don't respond with negative str8 line remarks)

k0mpresd
01-14-2008, 09:33 AM
i would assume yes

drag racing isnt really my deal..modding is though ;) :p

maxspeed
01-14-2008, 10:31 AM
well, im sure it would allow for more wheel spin off the line, so it might be better for cars with less whp who still want to drag race lol

94jedi
01-14-2008, 10:39 AM
Don't you guys think this mod would negatively affect an all out drag launch? (I know some of you aren't into that, so please don't respond with negative str8 line remarks)

honestly, it might make launching more predictable. I couldn't launch my car for shite with the factory setup. Maybe w/ more tq to the rear, I could figure it out...na who am I kidding. [:D]

94jedi
01-14-2008, 10:40 AM
busy little bee

Well, hello stranger!!! I'll have to shoot you an email to catch up. How did that Women's Prison in Thailand treat you? Anything like the movie "Broken down Palace"???[:D]

k0mpresd
01-14-2008, 01:16 PM
here are the pins in question...nothing special about them

sorry for the crappy pics but it is just coiled spring pin or spiral pin...m5x50mm

you can see where we scared them getting them out of the housing

ucf..i believe you thought it was pin + spring when in reality the pin is the spring ;)

we have several sets of these on order :)

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/photo-69.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/photo-70.jpg

317ssayzarc
01-14-2008, 02:01 PM
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/photo-69.jpg


show off [rolleyes]




[:p]

k0mpresd
01-14-2008, 02:03 PM
b6 s4 awe resonated exhaust...it did make for a nice back drop ;)

sean1.8t
01-14-2008, 02:27 PM
have you ever made a post that doesn't include ":)" or ";)"?

k0mpresd
01-14-2008, 02:36 PM
nope