2.0T Stages and HP/TQ? (sort long)

[Noffy]

Most of you will probably understand the level noob I really am by posting this but:

Is there documents somewhere that tries to set a number to HP/TQ for different levels of upgrading our cars. Like APR stages.

Here is what I am wanting to know for the 3 main software companies, or just any one of the 3. IF and Audi 2.0T is updgraded with

1. chip
2. Exhuast with or without the down pipe
3. Intake

What is the gain in horsepower and torque. Or what would the final power performance numbers. I know many of you have all this stuff installed on your car, and some of you have dyno'd what are your numbers. Also looking for something like they do in the "proven" section of European Car Magazine.

The take a car (audi a4 2.0T)

and a chip (giac) and show a chart of the differences
then they add exhaust and show a chart of the diff.
then a intake.... chart

then at the end they show several charts that breaks out each upgrade seperately compared to stock.

Is there something like that for our cars out there. If not can some of you guys that have gotten the numbers for you car give us the mods and the numbers. If not that can some of more knowledgeable members take a crack at estimating the power numbers for these upgrades.


thanks alot.

[nadroj81]

does it really matter how much power the car has? Unless you are trying to get in an argument with a Ricer its pointless. chip, exhaust w/ downpipe = good power. K04 or GT turbo = power to surprise people.

[Nico]

In short, No there is no concrete info on what hp increases you will get from each mod except chips.
All the sites quote a increase in hp for exhausts but when people dyno before after the difference is not discernible. Same goes for intake.
example:
http://www.mjbmotorsport.com/id80.html
with High flow cat:
http://www.mjbmotorsport.com/id81.html

Test pipe seems to be the only mod that does give you extra hp but again no-one has dyno'd each step of their upgrade, they have all added a group of mods and then dyno'd afterwards.

I dyno'd my car with APR 93 vs a A4 with APR 93, Carbonio intake, Test pipe and A.W.E exhaust and the difference was 10hp@the wheels. So if you look at those results you can maybe deduce that the TP gives 7hp@wheels carbonio 0 and the exhaust 3hp?

The final problem is the method of measuring the performance gains, the dyno. People with the same car and same mods are getting different results some up to 20hp @ the wheels difference between the same cars.

So really it makes it all very difficult.

I currently have the APR KO4. I will be adding a few extra things and I will try to document the different stages. But my car only dyno'd 200hp @ the wheels. People with chip and bolt-ons have got 260@ the wheels so you see the dilemma.

[Noffy]

does it really matter how much power the car has? Unless you are trying to get in an argument with a Ricer its pointless. chip, exhaust w/ downpipe = good power. K04 or GT turbo = power to surprise people.


I don't really care about hondas and ricers, or to race them. I care about learning about my car and its peices. I think there is probably some interesting points to talk about. I am not sure what they are, thats why I am asking. Many car magazines have this type of article so clearing they also think there is a point to it that their readers are interested in.


I saw the right up about the three chips that was done some time ago, I though that was pretty interesting. It would be cool if we had something like that but with all the upgrade peices instead of the software.,

[Noffy]

Indeed Nico I do see the problem. I always wondered why a car messeared on a dyno was not comparable to the next car messeared on the same dyno. Some how the companies must have a way of determing what there parts generally equate to because they advertise it LOL hahahaha.


MOst people say Intake = 0 hp. Most intake manufactures say the complete opposite. Also maybe the part (intake in this example) does not relate to horsepower until it is matched with another piece like and exhaust. Of course I personally have no idea.

[Phrost]

It's hard to tell because dyno's are for tuning, not to see "how much power you have". There are way too many variables to get an exact, picture perfect run each time.

[wkornfeld]

not to mention, the error margin for the different dynos across the country/world

[Noffy]

European Car June 2007 had a "proven" with the 2007 GTI 2.0T. They added Neuspeed software, Millteck turbo back exhaust,and Evo intake. They show so pretty cool numbers, but it just so happens this was one time where they didn't show the gain from each part individually [down]

[evilgabbie]

European Car June 2007 had a "proven" with the 2007 GTI 2.0T. They added Neuspeed software, Millteck turbo back exhaust,and Evo intake. They show so pretty cool numbers, but it just so happens this was one time where they didn't show the gain from each part individually [down]

what were the numbers

[Noffy]

what were the numbers

the peak Baseline numbers at the wheel were 181 hp @ 5400 and 493lbs @ 2700

the peak numbers at the wheel with modifications were roughing 212hp @ 5000 and 253lbs @ 3442 <=============== (reading from a chart)


Similar engine and similar mod= 41whp, seems like apr is suggesting they gets those number with just the software on our cars.

[BlackSpeed2.0t]

In short, No there is no concrete info on what hp increases you will get from each mod except chips.
All the sites quote a increase in hp for exhausts but when people dyno before after the difference is not discernible. Same goes for intake.
example:
http://www.mjbmotorsport.com/id80.html
with High flow cat:
http://www.mjbmotorsport.com/id81.html

Test pipe seems to be the only mod that does give you extra hp but again no-one has dyno'd each step of their upgrade, they have all added a group of mods and then dyno'd afterwards.

I dyno'd my car with APR 93 vs a A4 with APR 93, Carbonio intake, Test pipe and A.W.E exhaust and the difference was 10hp@the wheels. So if you look at those results you can maybe deduce that the TP gives 7hp@wheels carbonio 0 and the exhaust 3hp?

The final problem is the method of measuring the performance gains, the dyno. People with the same car and same mods are getting different results some up to 20hp @ the wheels difference between the same cars.

So really it makes it all very difficult.

I currently have the APR KO4. I will be adding a few extra things and I will try to document the different stages. But my car only dyno'd 200hp @ the wheels. People with chip and bolt-ons have got 260@ the wheels so you see the dilemma.
those graphs show it loses horspower

[Sanjman]

Phrost...

Although I agree with you, dyno charts also show the end result of the modification you are making. For most people it makes them more comfortable with the mods they decide on if someone else has shown positive results for their car. If it wasn't for you guys at AZ and AW, I would have wasted money on certain mods already.

Noffy...
This is a forum and not a car magazine. They have the resources to run a full comparison unlike us. We greatly appreciate it when people post their findings but that information only comes on a volunteering basis. The "numbers" you are asking for only give you information on the peak gains and do not show you what that mod is doing to it throughout the power band. Please search on your favorite search engine "understanding dyno charts" and it will give you some information that you might find useful.

Thanks.

[Nico]

those graphs show it loses horspower

That is correct!

However at the time we discussed this issue and it was decided that dyno's are not sensitive enough to accurately measure an increase/decrease of 5hp. So we called it no change as it was only 2hp. There was a increase in torque of 10ft/lb also.

[Noffy]

Noffy...
This is a forum and not a car magazine. They have the resources to run a full comparison unlike us. We greatly appreciate it when people post their findings but that information only comes on a volunteering basis. The "numbers" you are asking for only give you information on the peak gains and do not show you what that mod is doing to it throughout the power band. Please search on your favorite search engine "understanding dyno charts" and it will give you some information that you might find useful.

Thanks.


Oh indeed they have resourses and monies we don't have. I just no the members of this forum have gone and done some of these things on there one and I was just curious to hear what people had to say. in no way am I suggesting we set up a similar "article" for our engines. Althoug that would be cool.

the magazines does show the power band through out. I just represent that in a post with out the graphic.

[nadroj81]

just about all the chips and exhausts are going to give you about the same curve and peak hp/torque. Intake is good for allowing maximum air in, however it may not need it. When going to a GT turbo i think it will be necessary.

I spent money on mods b/c i thought they were good in terms of adding some power and sound to the car.
Just wait for a GT turbo kit....or the b8 bi-turbo s4.

[Noffy]

I spent money on mods b/c i thought they were good in terms of adding some power and sound to the car.


I also have and will be purchasing mods to add power and definetly improve the sound, but also to improve the efficiency of the engine and to lessen the wear and tear. I don't know alot about cars, computers I just about know all there is to know, cars however I am just learning. I am 35 (almost 36 yikes!) and I skipped the period in my life where I was completely interested in cars, how they work, how to make the sound good, and/or go fast, or look mean. I am just starting that now. Which is nice because I have more money now. I think some of the parts are good just to improve the way the engine runs, like exhaust and intake. It might not get you a bunch more power, but more air in more air out must be good for the engine?

[I495 Bandit]

Unless you are going to port the head and add a more aggressive exh and inta cam with a larger intake mani and a larger turbo a air intake by itself will do little if nothing to add more hp. I suggest after you have added a exhaust,tp,and chip reduce some of the unsprung weight from the car like adding a set of light weight wheels and maybe a set of floating hat brake rotors.

[Noffy]

Unless you are going to port the head and add a more aggressive exh and inta cam with a larger intake mani and a larger turbo a air intake by itself will do little if nothing to add more hp. I suggest after you have added a exhaust,tp,and chip reduce some of the unsprung weight from the car like adding a set of light weight wheels and maybe a set of floating hat brake rotors.


oh good idea. where are some good spots to cut weight? CF hood? light wieght wheels?? etc.

[I495 Bandit]

Yeah, Cf hood would definantly cut some weight but even though a CF hood is lighter that OEM your still not reducing any unsprung weight so you wont feel a noticable difference in the off the line quickness of the car like you would if you added a set of light weight wheels and lighter braking system. A good rule of thumb to remember in the racing world is for every 1 pound of unsprung weight you take off the car (light wheels,lighter braking system) its like taking 6 pounds of sprung weight (CF hood, racing seats, CF trunk, lighter exhaust) off of the car and for every 100 pound of sprung weight is taking off the car you gain 1/10 in the 1/4 mile so if you do the math you can really make a big difference in performance/quickness of our cars. Check Tirerack.com they have a nice set of 19" Oz Superleggera wheels that only weigh like 21#.

[Nico]

Similar engine and similar mod= 41whp, seems like apr is suggesting they gets those number with just the software on our cars.

No APR/GIAC/REVO/etc. are quoting a 41hp increase measured at the crank Not the wheels you need to factor in about 30% drive train loss (this is what I've seen with my car on the dyno, as well as a RS4) to calculate wheel numbers so this is an increase of about 59hp at the crank which would suggest that the extra mods added about 18hp at the crank.

Again different cars, different dyno's, hard to say exactly.

[Noffy]

So I have been day dreaming about installing an intake with my exhaust on tuesday, which will not happen. But I was checking out the evo intake at their website claims 10-15hp. Clearly those who know more than I on this site (which is most) claim that intake do not equal more HP or very little gain. How do these company justify the performance gains that they are advertising?

Are they just lying, is it a some speial combination, or just lab non rea life variables?

[ABL2point0T]

In the year and a half I have had my car, and been watching the forums I have come to this conclusion... Chip tuning is the only noticeable gain. Everything else just makes your car louder-aside from the testpipe. It adds power, makes your car loud AND smelly. I will wait for the big turbo kits to come out, and see if the other mods add any thing to it. Honestly I think by the time people have gotten reliable high HP numbers out of these cars I will have found something else that I like more than my A4 unfortunately.

[Nico]

So I have been day dreaming about installing an intake with my exhaust on tuesday, which will not happen. But I was checking out the evo intake at their website claims 10-15hp. Clearly those who know more than I on this site (which is most) claim that intake do not equal more HP or very little gain. How do these company justify the performance gains that they are advertising?

Are they just lying, is it a some speial combination, or just lab non rea life variables?

The way our cars ECU works is that it has adaption channels. (I don't know how they work exactly) The way some chip tuners tune the chips is by modifying the parameters of the adaption channels.
When a car is not chip tuned the adaption Chanel's can increase/decrease power by about 10% (I think its about this much) This function is installed for situations where the engine sense e.g. bad fuel/less oxygen and it can prevent engine damage from occurring.
When you add an exhaust/intake to a non chipped car there is an increase in power as the computer senses the increased air supply and it is able to increase other factors and this = power increase.
When a car is chip tuned most of these sensors are maxed out already so there is a lesser increase/no increase.
So when they quote a power increase they are not lying.

[Noffy]

The way our cars ECU works is that it has adaption channels. (I don't know how they work exactly) The way some chip tuners tune the chips is by modifying the parameters of the adaption channels.
When a car is not chip tuned the adaption Chanel's can increase/decrease power by about 10% (I think its about this much) This function is installed for situations where the engine sense e.g. bad fuel/less oxygen and it can prevent engine damage from occurring.
When you add an exhaust/intake to a non chipped car there is an increase in power as the computer senses the increased air supply and it is able to increase other factors and this = power increase.
When a car is chip tuned most of these sensors are maxed out already so there is a lesser increase/no increase.
So when they quote a power increase they are not lying.

So since my car is not chipped, I could expect little gains from my exhaust that going in tomorrow (w00t!) and/or from an intake. But the gains would be little, less that 10% overall.

I don't really care too much about gaining power btw, it would be nice but I got two speeding tickets from this car already. I don't really need to go faster. But I do like to understand how all the things interact.

[bhvrdr]

The way our cars ECU works is that it has adaption channels. (I don't know how they work exactly) The way some chip tuners tune the chips is by modifying the parameters of the adaption channels.
When a car is not chip tuned the adaption Chanel's can increase/decrease power by about 10% (I think its about this much) This function is installed for situations where the engine sense e.g. bad fuel/less oxygen and it can prevent engine damage from occurring.
When you add an exhaust/intake to a non chipped car there is an increase in power as the computer senses the increased air supply and it is able to increase other factors and this = power increase.
When a car is chip tuned most of these sensors are maxed out already so there is a lesser increase/no increase.
So when they quote a power increase they are not lying.

This is not exactly the case...

1. Both the OEM and aftermarket tuning retains the same ability to adjust up or down for things like octance changes, altitude changes, ambients, etc. These vehicles can trim up and down about 25% IIRC and can relatively safely retard 6-8 degrees of timing.

2. All of the major chip tuning companies we know of on this board (the "big 3") recreate code from the ground up rather then manipulating adaptation channels. APR, for example employs some extremely highly experienced electrical and mechanical engineers, one of which who designed OEM code for Honda or Toyota IIRC. They can manipulate even the most complex of base 3D maps. I've seen this in person in Auburn and it was neat.

3. So generally the aftermarket as well as the OEM have the same adjustability. I say "generally" because some chip tuners can go a bit overboard. Let's say, for example, I have a lot of things to do this week and didnt have as much time as I would like to work on a particular chip. I might just throw up the timing and throw up the boost and "hope the car will be fine because the turbo can only make so much boost anyways and the car will just pull back timing if too much is added." IN that case you lose out on adjustablity but not because of using adaptation channels but bc not enough time was put into the programming IMO.

4. What I found with regards to power limitations using a maxed out beta chip was that I was likely not seeing gains with either an extremely high flowing 2.75" exhaust or a 200cpsi HJS cat because we were at the fueling limitations of these cars. The new HPFP options will be available to address this.

cheers! Mike

[Nico]

So since my car is not chipped, I could expect little gains from my exhaust that going in tomorrow (w00t!) and/or from an intake. But the gains would be little, less that 10% overall.

I don't really care too much about gaining power btw, it would be nice but I got two speeding tickets from this car already. I don't really need to go faster. But I do like to understand how all the things interact.

Several people have definitely notice power increases by simply adding an exhaust to their non chipped car. 10% is probably not the case, more like 25% from what bhvrdr suggested.
Your going to do it any way right? So just let us know what happens.
Good luck.

[Nico]

This is not exactly the case...

1. Both the OEM and aftermarket tuning retains the same ability to adjust up or down for things like octance changes, altitude changes, ambients, etc. These vehicles can trim up and down about 25% IIRC and can relatively safely retard 6-8 degrees of timing.

2. All of the major chip tuning companies we know of on this board (the "big 3") recreate code from the ground up rather then manipulating adaptation channels. APR, for example employs some extremely highly experienced electrical and mechanical engineers, one of which who designed OEM code for Honda or Toyota IIRC. They can manipulate even the most complex of base 3D maps. I've seen this in person in Auburn and it was neat.

3. So generally the aftermarket as well as the OEM have the same adjustability. I say "generally" because some chip tuners can go a bit overboard. Let's say, for example, I have a lot of things to do this week and didnt have as much time as I would like to work on a particular chip. I might just throw up the timing and throw up the boost and "hope the car will be fine because the turbo can only make so much boost anyways and the car will just pull back timing if too much is added." IN that case you lose out on adjustablity but not because of using adaptation channels but bc not enough time was put into the programming IMO.

4. What I found with regards to power limitations using a maxed out beta chip was that I was likely not seeing gains with either an extremely high flowing 2.75" exhaust or a 200cpsi HJS cat because we were at the fueling limitations of these cars. The new HPFP options will be available to address this.

cheers! Mike

Why can you then add a KO4 and and still get more performance out of the so called Maxed out pump?

[bhvrdr]

Why can you then add a KO4 and and still get more performance out of the so called Maxed out pump?

You have slightly changed the rev band where the pump was maxed out with the K03. But you do notice that in the part of the band where the pump is maxed out there is identical performance to the K03. Additionally the K04 non pump software leans the afr slightly (still at redline it is the same OEM afr).

http://www.mjbmotorsport.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/BoostComparo-1.jpg

http://www.mjbmotorsport.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/IntakeAirComparo-1.jpg

http://www.mjbmotorsport.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/FuelComparo-1.jpg


Here are some more graphs to ponder, all done on the same car running the same motor oil running the same dyno, same strap down locations, same fans and placement....

Stock...

http://www.mjbmotorsport.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/StockDyno-1c.jpg

Chipped...

http://www.mjbmotorsport.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/APRDyno-1.jpg

Chip and free flowing straight through muffler 2.75" exhaust and 2.75" downpipe (notice the power under the curve is about identical)...

http://www.mjbmotorsport.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/APR-NS-Comparison-1-med.jpg

Here is a chipped car with the same free flowing exhaust AND now with an upgraded extremely high flow HJS 200cpsi high flow cat (again about the same power under the curve as the chip only car)...

http://www.mjbmotorsport.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/DynoNSMilltek-1.jpg

[bhvrdr]

Several people have definitely notice power increases by simply adding an exhaust to their non chipped car. 10% is probably not the case, more like 25% from what bhvrdr suggested.
Your going to do it any way right? So just let us know what happens.
Good luck.

Sorry if I wasnt very clear. The 25% refers to the amount of fuel trim ability. If I recall seeing how much the ecu can add or subtract from the base map to adjust it is about 25%. I'm sure hardware comes into play as well. For example if the vehicle had the OEM boost levels we have seen from eurocode that the car can make tremendously more torque and pretty good more hp with a testpipe (I believe I saw as much as 50tq and 20hp gains on a stock tuned car). So the ECUs ability to utilize that added fuel is there because there is enough headroom in the hardware (the injectors and pumps have enough head room). But you will never ever see 50tq and 20hp on top of a chipped car when adding a testpipe although the ECU can still use the same additive offset of 25% the fuel is no longer there so you get fuel cut instead or you get "stage 2" software to reduce the boost thereby negating much of your gains anyways....or of course you get the fuel pump.

cheers! MIke

[evilgabbie]

Sorry if I wasnt very clear. The 25% refers to the amount of fuel trim ability. If I recall seeing how much the ecu can add or subtract from the base map to adjust it is about 25%. I'm sure hardware comes into play as well. For example if the vehicle had the OEM boost levels we have seen from eurocode that the car can make tremendously more torque and pretty good more hp with a testpipe (I believe I saw as much as 50tq and 20hp gains on a stock tuned car). So the ECUs ability to utilize that added fuel is there because there is enough headroom in the hardware (the injectors and pumps have enough head room). But you will never ever see 50tq and 20hp on top of a chipped car when adding a testpipe although the ECU can still use the same additive offset of 25% the fuel is no longer there so you get fuel cut instead or you get "stage 2" software to reduce the boost thereby negating much of your gains anyways....or of course you get the fuel pump.

cheers! MIke

so basically chipping sorta already maxed gains on the stock motor, adding a testpipe will actually require a detune to get the fuel pump working "good", thus gains will be minimal, if any.. more like sound gains ? and smell ?

[bhvrdr]

so basically chipping sorta already maxed gains on the stock motor, adding a testpipe will actually require a detune to get the fuel pump working "good", thus gains will be minimal, if any.. more like sound gains ? and smell ?

To an extent I would say yeah. The gains are going to be much smaller because of the fueling limitations. Heck, even apart from the pump the OEM injectors aren't good for anything more than a K04. Interestingly if you check out the vwvortex site the tuners are having the same issues with the GTI 2.0T FSI cars and most all have now developed a " 3 inch exhaust file" or a "stage 2" file or a "testpipe file"...all denoting the same thing which is they have had to detune in order to not get fuel cut when folks added ultra high flow exhaust components.

[Noffy]

Several people have definitely notice power increases by simply adding an exhaust to their non chipped car. 10% is probably not the case, more like 25% from what bhvrdr suggested.
Your going to do it any way right? So just let us know what happens.
Good luck.


Oh I am definitely going to do it. And i am not really hoping for big gains. I am doing for the sound and just better engine efficiency. Any power gains will be a bonus.

[sean1.8t]

It's hard to tell because dyno's are for tuning, not to see "how much power you have". There are way too many variables to get an exact, picture perfect run each time.

yes, actually they are.

all you need is a baseline dyno of your car on a dyno. then when you add modifications you go back to that same exact dyno in very similar conditions to see what you've gained(and also tune for them if you have the resources)

but if a dyno is not a good indicator of ""how much power you have"", then what do you suggest? go to the track and see what time and trap you can net? as that has even more variables than a dyno does.

at least with a dyno, you remove the human factor

[gsxtasee]

So I have been day dreaming about installing an intake with my exhaust on tuesday, which will not happen. But I was checking out the evo intake at their website claims 10-15hp. Clearly those who know more than I on this site (which is most) claim that intake do not equal more HP or very little gain. How do these company justify the performance gains that they are advertising?

Are they just lying, is it a some speial combination, or just lab non rea life variables?

Though I'm new to the 2.0fsi engine, I am not new t ocars/turbos/power adders/modifications on said items.

As for the intake itself.. alone. it DOES make a difference on every car I have dealt with and ESPECIALLY with forced induction cars. try this. add all the mods you like to your car.. chip/exhaust/DP/whatever. do the FMIC and piping and any other mods you like but fdo NOT ADD any kind of modification to the intak to theturbo unit itself. Dyno your car.

Then add a nice, high flowing intake and re-dyno and tell me you don't see some changes in the curve. haveing a restrictive intake or exhaust tract is like sucking or blowing through a straw. it works but it's not efficient.

I say this so you can kinda understand what is going on. anyone who says intakes make "no difference" are wrong. they do make a difference but the difference amount, being a % of total power produced, will vary.

[gsxtasee]

yes, actually they are.

all you need is a baseline dyno of your car on a dyno. then when you add modifications you go back to that same exact dyno in very similar conditions to see what you've gained(and also tune for them if you have the resources)

but if a dyno is not a good indicator of ""how much power you have"", then what do you suggest? go to the track and see what time and trap you can net? as that has even more variables than a dyno does.

at least with a dyno, you remove the human factor

the problem with this is that there are still variables which may conspire against accurate readings. maybe they recently serviced the dyno before your first run so it spun a little better. maybe the weather was better on baseline..maybe dyno guy didn't floor it on follow up runs, maybe weather or rolling resistance of dyno changed some... on top of that there si a +/- variability on every dyno run.

there are few ways to really, truely compare head-to-head numbers on vehicles/mods. dynoing back to back is as close at any of us will likely ever get though. and as for the track idea, even more variables conspiring against accurate timings.

[sean1.8t]

the problem with this is that there are still variables which may conspire against accurate readings. maybe they recently serviced the dyno before your first run so it spun a little better. maybe the weather was better on baseline..maybe dyno guy didn't floor it on follow up runs, maybe weather or rolling resistance of dyno changed some... on top of that there si a +/- variability on every dyno run.

there are few ways to really, truely compare head-to-head numbers on vehicles/mods. dynoing back to back is as close at any of us will likely ever get though. and as for the track idea, even more variables conspiring against accurate timings.

of coarse, CAUSE I JUST SAID THAT!


but seriously, there will always be variables that we cannot control. but it's not like people are going crazy over the 4th decimal place in their whp reading. most everyone understands to take the readings as a rough estimate. im not sure what you people are trying to prove here with your outdated and over stated "variable" ideas. this has all been known for years. but yet, people are still getting by with dyno'ing their cars, comparing numbers, and tuning fast as shit cars..

seems to me that you are trying to disprove dyno's completely [confused]

but if you are, then how would we ever get an idea of what kind of power our cars make?

[bhvrdr]

Though I'm new to the 2.0fsi engine, I am not new t ocars/turbos/power adders/modifications on said items.

As for the intake itself.. alone. it DOES make a difference on every car I have dealt with and ESPECIALLY with forced induction cars. try this. add all the mods you like to your car.. chip/exhaust/DP/whatever. do the FMIC and piping and any other mods you like but fdo NOT ADD any kind of modification to the intak to theturbo unit itself. Dyno your car.

Then add a nice, high flowing intake and re-dyno and tell me you don't see some changes in the curve. haveing a restrictive intake or exhaust tract is like sucking or blowing through a straw. it works but it's not efficient.

I say this so you can kinda understand what is going on. anyone who says intakes make "no difference" are wrong. they do make a difference but the difference amount, being a % of total power produced, will vary.

People have done this on the 1.8t audi cars and people have measured intake air temps on more open intakes like the evoms and seen RAISED intake air temps DECREASED intake air volume, and DECREASED timing used. Here is an example on my S4...

http://www.mjbmotorsport.com/id107.html

Here is an example on the 1.8t...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v714/bhvrdr/5294iat1-med-1.gif

The carbonio is one that isolates heat relatively well and maybe more of a wash as far as gains versus same as stock. When I tested it I saw a bit of increased airflow but another person tested it and it was a wash so i'm just not sure, but it seems at least one of the better designs I had seen.

MTM engineers advised the stock intake is good for 350hp so "restriction" in the stock intake does not appear present. FWIW, the same sized MAF is used regardless of aftermarket intake and doesnt get swapped until big turbo applications either.

cheers! mike

[Noffy]

Though I'm new to the 2.0fsi engine, I am not new t ocars/turbos/power adders/modifications on said items.

As for the intake itself.. alone. it DOES make a difference on every car I have dealt with and ESPECIALLY with forced induction cars. try this. add all the mods you like to your car.. chip/exhaust/DP/whatever. do the FMIC and piping and any other mods you like but fdo NOT ADD any kind of modification to the intak to theturbo unit itself. Dyno your car.

Then add a nice, high flowing intake and re-dyno and tell me you don't see some changes in the curve. haveing a restrictive intake or exhaust tract is like sucking or blowing through a straw. it works but it's not efficient.

I say this so you can kinda understand what is going on. anyone who says intakes make "no difference" are wrong. they do make a difference but the difference amount, being a % of total power produced, will vary.

Clearly you are more knowledgeable in the field than I and I do not dispute what you have said. I would guess that a upgrade intake would certainly make a difference, especially if you were at a poiint where the original intake was maxed. I just want to point out that you quote "no difference" and I did not say that I said "little to no HP gains" and I would say that these two statements are not the same, and if fact you say that as well.

Your comments, and others, as well as reading I have been doing, do suggest a difference and even a HP gain but most when you have maxed out the current solution. However it appears that the stock intake on ths particular car is pretty sufficient probably to a level I will never reach.

The crzy thing is down the road, not for awhile (I am dropping a load of money on exhaust tomorrow) I will still get one, mostly because I think they are cool. hahahahahahaha.

great comments. This is the kind of discussion I was hoping for in this thread.

[Noffy]

does it really matter how much power the car has? Unless you are trying to get in an argument with a Ricer its pointless. chip, exhaust w/ downpipe = good power. K04 or GT turbo = power to surprise people.


I am glad we kept the post going instead of just deciding it was pointless.


Thanks for all the info guys!

[dreamcar=rs4]

http://www.europeancarweb.com/tech/epcp_0707_2007_audi_a4_quattro/index.html

kinda old issue of european car, but they check the power gains of an APR chip on a 2007 A4 2.0T quattro automatic...also using different octanes

EDIT: Don't those numbers look kindof slow? i mean the automatic transmission is sh!tty but not that bad

[B7FWD]

the numbers are looking great to me.
the octane 98, 100 numbers look too happy to me

6.8sec 0-60mph? thats just too great for a tip?

[dreamcar=rs4]

oh i thought 8.0 stock seemed a lil slow

[CX-7&A4]

http://www.europeancarweb.com/tech/epcp_0707_2007_audi_a4_quattro/index.html

kinda old issue of european car, but they check the power gains of an APR chip on a 2007 A4 2.0T quattro automatic...also using different octanes

EDIT: Don't those numbers look kindof slow? i mean the automatic transmission is sh!tty but not that bad

It's Quattro, so it looks inline.

[dandmx04]

..so is the fuell pump the answer to all these upgrades (TP and exhaust , CAI , FMIT) ???

[quattrosaint]

the numbers are looking great to me.
the octane 98, 100 numbers look too happy to me

6.8sec 0-60mph? thats just too great for a tip?

Thats horrible, Im in the high 5's on 93 octane

[dreamcar=rs4]

Thats horrible, Im in the high 5's on 93 octane

there is now hope for my tiptronic[up]

[jimmyrecluse]

Im stage tree fiddy, I beat a Veyron one time. Im going to stay awake all night now calculating my stages and scheming stage tree fiddy fo then im going to make stickers and beat all bMWs too