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View Full Version : *GTRS questions* (need some recomendations please!)



B518T
12-13-2007, 09:53 PM
I have a 1998.5 1.8TQM

the mods i plan on doing before I go GTRS are as follows; 2.5" exhaust (I will install a labree hfc when I put in the turbo), FMIC (prolly just an eBay special for starters(2.25")), southbend HD Stage 3 clutch...

Alright, for the longest time I have been fighting with myself about a turbo...I think I have found my middle ground...

I am not interested in any other turbo but the GTRS elim., have have done a bunch of research and have taken a ton of notes....

here is what i have concluded;

I will order the turbo kit from ATP- the only problem I have heard about this kit is that the oil return line will be way too short for the AEB motor.

I have also found that the TIP from ATP is trash, along with their exhaust manifold

I am thinking about going with the samco TIP that 034 has (anyone had any problems with it?(what about neuspeed?))

I was also thinking about going with the 034 exhaust manifold, but I am not conviced of it's quality (since it looks identical to the atp (which is known to fail))

now for fueling and software

I am not looking for the super aggressive racing file...I am looking for a daily driver tune. I am pretty sure I'll just run a basic 440cc/91oct. program (i'm in CA, can't get 93)

I am thinking I'll go with unitronics, although I have heard CTapp is great, I have also heard he has super aggressive tunes.

also, I believe that the MAF depends on the tune...does the uni. tune use the VR6 MAF or the Ford MAF ( I have heard thet the Ford MAF is super sensitive)

as far as 440cc injectors go, what company would you primarily recommend, I am thinking I should prolly stick with Bosch (anyone have any preferences?)

I noticed that unitronics has a tune for the K03, my car has yet to have been chipped (mainly because I don't want to waste my $ on a tune that will have to be written over in a couple months)...

If I get my K03 chipped with unitronics, would they give me a discount when I get the GTRS file written/"chipped on"? (if not I may as well just wait)

I am also assuming that I will stick with my N75 (should I keep the stock one or upgrade to the N75 race valve?)

I am also assuming that I will need an FPR, right?

any input will be greatly appreciated, thank you!

and please let me know about anything I am forgetting, or if you know of any places where I can get better prices for any of the items listed above.

t1demont1
12-14-2007, 03:34 AM
You can use the stock exhaust manifold on the elims if that helps

jm121189
12-14-2007, 06:09 AM
Ya thats the point of the elim kits. If your going to get a new manifold you might as well get a "real" turbo, thats what I think anyway. Sounds like you know what you want which is good.

biketsai
12-14-2007, 06:13 AM
You should prob get a 2.75" exhaust or 3", and a 2.5" FMIC
and if you have the money, replace the N75 with an EBC

Solaris
12-14-2007, 06:20 AM
If you figure out you do need the VR6 MAF, I'm selling one. PM me for details.

HIERLEVELZ
12-14-2007, 06:21 AM
From what ive read it seems that an adjustable regualator is the way to go because using a 3 bar with the 440 injectors tend to run a bit rich. I would get the adjustable because of its flexibility. You can makes changes to fuel pressure to accomodate different tunes.

AudiRacerS4
12-14-2007, 09:05 AM
I have a 1998.5 1.8TQM

the mods i plan on doing before I go GTRS are as follows; 2.5" exhaust (I will install a labree hfc when I put in the turbo), FMIC (prolly just an eBay special for starters(2.25")), southbend HD Stage 3 clutch... you will need at least a 3'' exhaust

Alright, for the longest time I have been fighting with myself about a turbo...I think I have found my middle ground...

I am not interested in any other turbo but the GTRS elim., have have done a bunch of research and have taken a ton of notes....

here is what i have concluded;

I will order the turbo kit from ATP- the only problem I have heard about this kit is that the oil return line will be way too short for the AEB motor. you can reuse your stock oil return line but i recommend replacing the oil supply line

I have also found that the TIP from ATP is trash, along with their exhaust manifold- their manifold is prone to cracking if you want a HF one get the 034 one. I love my ATP 3'' TIP all you need to do is put another bolt on the inlet and it will stay in place.

I am thinking about going with the samco TIP that 034 has (anyone had any problems with it?(what about neuspeed?)) there is nothing wrong with the samco one other than it has a 2.5'' inlet which some see as a restriction

I was also thinking about going with the 034 exhaust manifold, but I am not conviced of it's quality (since it looks identical to the atp (which is known to fail)) I have the 034 one and so far it seems to be holding up, 034 also warranties it

now for fueling and software

I am not looking for the super aggressive racing file...I am looking for a daily driver tune. I am pretty sure I'll just run a basic 440cc/91oct. program (i'm in CA, can't get 93) Unitronic tune

I am thinking I'll go with unitronics, although I have heard CTapp is great, I have also heard he has super aggressive tunes.

also, I believe that the MAF depends on the tune...does the uni. tune use the VR6 MAF or the Ford MAF ( I have heard thet the Ford MAF is super sensitive) you will need a MKIII VR6 MAF if you are nDBW and a MKIV VR6 MAF if you are DBW

as far as 440cc injectors go, what company would you primarily recommend, I am thinking I should prolly stick with Bosch (anyone have any preferences?) again i run the bosch green tops which everyone seems to hate but i do not have any problems with my idle so i stuck with them. others use seimens or delphi 440's

I noticed that unitronics has a tune for the K03, my car has yet to have been chipped (mainly because I don't want to waste my $ on a tune that will have to be written over in a couple months)...

If I get my K03 chipped with unitronics, would they give me a discount when I get the GTRS file written/"chipped on"? (if not I may as well just wait) i doubt it

I am also assuming that I will stick with my N75 (should I keep the stock one or upgrade to the N75 race valve?) you can not run an n75 you will need an MBC or EBC

I am also assuming that I will need an FPR, right?no you need to run a 3BAR one or you can opt for an adj fpr

any input will be greatly appreciated, thank you!

and please let me know about anything I am forgetting, or if you know of any places where I can get better prices for any of the items listed above.

AudiA4_20T
12-14-2007, 09:15 AM
You should prob get a 2.75" exhaust or 3", and a 2.5" FMIC
and if you have the money, replace the N75 with an EBC

ummm... a 2.5" exhaust is fine and even 2" piping is enough for a GTRS

AudiRacerS4
12-14-2007, 09:21 AM
ummm... a 2.5" exhaust is fine and even 2" piping is enough for a GTRS

2'' IC piping is fine...idk a 2.5'' exhaust gives you a bit more lag

mike-2ptzero
12-14-2007, 09:55 AM
I am also assuming that I will need an FPR, right?no you can need to run the stock 3BAR one or you can opt for an adj fpr



Our cars came with a 4bar fpr stock, the VW's came with a stock 3 bar fpr if thats what you meant.

AudiRacerS4
12-14-2007, 10:36 AM
Our cars came with a 4bar fpr stock, the VW's came with a stock 3 bar fpr if thats what you meant.

oh ok thanks for correcting me [up]

biketsai
12-14-2007, 11:05 AM
I have 440CC greentops for sale cheap if you want them

AudiA4_20T
12-14-2007, 12:15 PM
2'' IC piping is fine...idk a 2.5'' exhaust gives you a bit more lag

Honestly Mike2ptzero and Don Supreme are running GT35Rs on a 3" exhaust... I would assume that a turbo putting out a ton less power wouldnt really need a 3"... Have you tried both a 2.5" and 3" on the same exact setup to compare?

Don Supreme
12-14-2007, 01:46 PM
I still recommend 3".... It will spool quicker... (nothing less than 2.5" exhaust).

B518T
12-14-2007, 01:48 PM
Alright, thanks to everyone who replied!...I am a lot clearer now.

I want to go GTRS mainly because of lag reasons and because it is designed to mount in the stock position.

Like I said above, I do not want an aggressive tune, this will be a daily driver... I am not into the jerky feeling you get with some of the more intense tunes...I am also looking to go really easy on my stock internals.

The car has 115K on it right now, and will prolly have 120-25K by the time I do the install (the compression is perfect, the motor has been well cared for)

The mileage is the reason why I want to replace the stock exhaust manifold (I am sure by now it is covered in little hairline cracks) thats why I am gonna go with a new higher flowing 034 exh. mani

Another question I have ia about a possible secondary support for the turbo so that all the weight is not place on the 034 mani, I have heard of braces coming from underneath and from up top. if anyone has any pictures, they will definitely be helpful...(my best friend is a welder, If I can show him a pic it will be much easier for him to make me a support)

as far as FMIC and exhaust size go, I will stick with 2.5" exh/2.25" ic mainly because I am going to be running a weaker tune, and really don't need more flow than that, and I really don't want to worry about psi drops

Does anyone know what the GTRS uni. tunig (91oct./440cc) is like boost wise? I would guess that it would peak at 22 and hold at 17/18...(if anyone has/had the tune)

As for injectors....what is everyone using?...is there one company that's supposed to flow/spray better? (440cc)(bosch/siemens/delphi/other?...just looking for the best for my application, I don't want to cut corners and end up with a shitty idle)

I am just gonna go with an adjustable fpr, now the question is, what company makes the best/most accurate one?...The last thing I want is crummy fpr

I am DBC...so I guess that means I should run an MKIII VR6 MAF (part number anyone?)

I was under the impression that you can run an N75 with the eliminators...if I got an MBC should/could I run it inline with the N75?...I have heard that the boost "curve" is smoother

Are there any 3" TIP made for the GTRS besides ATP?...is there a custom TIP what may work better? (pics if you DIYed a tip for a gtrs)

Once again, all input is greatly appreciated!

let me know if I am missing something

thanx!

AudiRacerS4
12-14-2007, 01:49 PM
Honestly Mike2ptzero and Don Supreme are running GT35Rs on a 3" exhaust... I would assume that a turbo putting out a ton less power wouldnt really need a 3"... Have you tried both a 2.5" and 3" on the same exact setup to compare?

yeah i have a 2.5'' exhaust and a QTP dump on my GT2871r and with the dump open there is noticeably a lot more power and 400-800rpm less spool up

AudiRacerS4
12-14-2007, 01:54 PM
Alright, thanks to everyone who replied!...I am a lot clearer now.

I want to go GTRS mainly because of lag reasons and because it is designed to mount in the stock position.

Like I said above, I do not want an aggressive tune, this will be a daily driver... I am not into the jerky feeling you get with some of the more intense tunes...I am also looking to go really easy on my stock internals.

The car has 115K on it right now, and will prolly have 120-25K by the time I do the install (the compression is perfect, the motor has been well cared for) i had 130k when i did my BT

The mileage is the reason why I want to replace the stock exhaust manifold (I am sure by now it is covered in little hairline cracks) thats why I am gonna go with a new higher flowing 034 exh. mani good choice PM wizard-of-od to get a great price on the 034 mani

Another question I have ia about a possible secondary support for the turbo so that all the weight is not place on the 034 mani, I have heard of braces coming from underneath and from up top. if anyone has any pictures, they will definitely be helpful...(my best friend is a welder, If I can show him a pic it will be much easier for him to make me a support) may be a good option but these turbos arent "that" heavy

as far as FMIC and exhaust size go, I will stick with 2.5" exh/2.25" ic mainly because I am going to be running a weaker tune, and really don't need more flow than that, and I really don't want to worry about psi drops

Does anyone know what the GTRS uni. tunig (91oct./440cc) is like boost wise? I would guess that it would peak at 22 and hold at 17/18...(if anyone has/had the tune)you cant run an n75 you have to run an MBC so you can set your desired boost amount

As for injectors....what is everyone using?...is there one company that's supposed to flow/spray better? (440cc)(bosch/siemens/delphi/other?...just looking for the best for my application, I don't want to cut corners and end up with a shitty idle)i use the bosch green tops that everyone says are the shittiest injectors but i have had 0 problems with them

I am just gonna go with an adjustable fpr, now the question is, what company makes the best/most accurate one?...The last thing I want is crummy fpr go with the ECS adjustable as it is one of the only ones that allows you to tun less than 3BAR

I am DBC...so I guess that means I should run an MKIII VR6 MAF (part number anyone?) 0 280 217 504 and you just need the housing you reuse your stock MAF sensor

I was under the impression that you can run an N75 with the eliminators...if I got an MBC should/could I run it inline with the N75?...I have heard that the boost "curve" is smoother

Are there any 3" TIP made for the GTRS besides ATP?...is there a custom TIP what may work better? (pics if you DIYed a tip for a gtrs) neuspeed xtreme is great from what i hear

Once again, all input is greatly appreciated!

let me know if I am missing something

thanx!

^^^^^

dualaudi
12-14-2007, 02:05 PM
Honestly Mike2ptzero and Don Supreme are running GT35Rs on a 3" exhaust... I would assume that a turbo putting out a ton less power wouldnt really need a 3"... Have you tried both a 2.5" and 3" on the same exact setup to compare?

I heard any exhaust less than 6" is too small for turbos [:D]

HIERLEVELZ
12-14-2007, 06:51 PM
Can we sticky this?

AudiRacerS4
12-14-2007, 07:06 PM
if you want i have a neuspeed TIP for sale PM me

B518T
12-14-2007, 11:29 PM
Alright, well I have updated my list and after holidays/tuition are out of the way i will start the modding...

I have a pretty good Idea of where to start an finish...

Just a couple more quick Questions (semi-directed at AudiRacerS4)

First, will it actually make any difference if I do not run an N75 valve?

second, I think I get it but I am not sure....I buy a MKII VR6 Maf (P/N-0 280 217 504), then I "gut" it and put the internals from my stock maf inside?...is the part # for the entire unit or the housing?

Thirdly, have you tried the neuspeed xtreme tip?...I am really curious about it, I have seen a couple for sale, but I have yet to hear a review...(I am thinking that the neuspeed will prolly be the way to go)

fourth, the only gauge i currently have in the car is a boost/vac gauge, what other gauges do you recommend...I am definitely going to install an a/f gauge.

unfortunately I am starting from the bottom (completely stock car, down to the original clutch)...My goal is to have all of the parts before summer, then when this next semester is out I'll do the install...[wrench]

well, thanks again for all of the input, it definitely puts my mind at ease when I have a grasp of what I am doing...

mike-2ptzero
12-15-2007, 08:29 AM
I still recommend 3".... It will spool quicker... (nothing less than 2.5" exhaust).

Larger pipe at the back of a internal gated turbo doesn't always equal quicker spool since it can decrease back pressure at the wg causing less resistance and this means more of the exhaust can end up flowing thru it instead of thru the exhaust wheel. Decreasing the back pressure further down stream works better since it is then bypassing the muffler.


First, will it actually make any difference if I do not run an N75 valve?


The BT's tend to work at their best with a EBC. This means bypassing the N75 by looping the 2 open ends and leaving the harness plugged in.


second, I think I get it but I am not sure....I buy a MKII VR6 Maf (P/N-0 280 217 504), then I "gut" it and put the internals from my stock maf inside?...is the part # for the entire unit or the housing?


Depends on what the tuner uses, but it tends to be just the housing you will need and then place your stock sensor inside of it. But you really need to ask the tuner this question.



fourth, the only gauge i currently have in the car is a boost/vac gauge, what other gauges do you recommend...I am definitely going to install an a/f gauge.



Gauges to look at getting

AFR(wide band)
oil pressure
EGT



BTW you are going to need to upgrade that clutch, most likely a stage 3-4 with the power you are looking to make.

AudiRacerS4
12-15-2007, 09:53 AM
Alright, well I have updated my list and after holidays/tuition are out of the way i will start the modding...

I have a pretty good Idea of where to start an finish...

Just a couple more quick Questions (semi-directed at AudiRacerS4)

First, will it actually make any difference if I do not run an N75 valve? you cant run the N75 no matter what it will cause you make unsafe levels of boost since it will not open correctly, although you dont use it you need to keep it plugged in and tucked somewhere in the engine bay

second, I think I get it but I am not sure....I buy a MKII VR6 Maf (P/N-0 280 217 504), then I "gut" it and put the internals from my stock maf inside?...is the part # for the entire unit or the housing? thats the p/n for the whole thing, all you need is the housing but they are kind of hard to find just that. you take the vr6 sensor out and put your 18.t in its place

Thirdly, have you tried the neuspeed xtreme tip?...I am really curious about it, I have seen a couple for sale, but I have yet to hear a review...(I am thinking that the neuspeed will prolly be the way to go)my friend uses it and loves it he is running a gtrs just like you will be, the only reason i went with the atp one is because it has a 3'' diameter and i'm running the slightly larger 2871r, if you want one i have a brand new never used one with all the parts for sale just PM me

fourth, the only gauge i currently have in the car is a boost/vac gauge, what other gauges do you recommend...I am definitely going to install an a/f gauge.

unfortunately I am starting from the bottom (completely stock car, down to the original clutch)...My goal is to have all of the parts before summer, then when this next semester is out I'll do the install...[wrench]

well, thanks again for all of the input, it definitely puts my mind at ease when I have a grasp of what I am doing...

^^^^^

B518T
12-16-2007, 12:25 AM
awesome, this thread has answered virtually all of my Q's!

I can't wait to start piecing this thing together!

well, as far as install goes I am going to DIY everything (the only thing I am a little hesitant about it my clutch(I may have a shop do it, not sure yet))

besides that, I have read a few DIY's and I can definately handle the turbo swap, I think the only thing I do not grasp is how the N75 and the boost controller are going to work together (how I will hook them up(it sounds like I am going to be keeping the N75 in the engine bay, but it's going to be feeding back into itself)

I'm sure I'll have a better grasp in the next couple months

the question is, will I be able to get away with an MBC?...or will an ebc make my life a whole lot easier?

well, thanks again for all of the help guys, I really can't wait to get this car moving!

mike-2ptzero
12-16-2007, 07:05 AM
awesome, this thread has answered virtually all of my Q's!

I can't wait to start piecing this thing together!

well, as far as install goes I am going to DIY everything (the only thing I am a little hesitant about it my clutch(I may have a shop do it, not sure yet))

besides that, I have read a few DIY's and I can definately handle the turbo swap, I think the only thing I do not grasp is how the N75 and the boost controller are going to work together (how I will hook them up(it sounds like I am going to be keeping the N75 in the engine bay, but it's going to be feeding back into itself)

I'm sure I'll have a better grasp in the next couple months

the question is, will I be able to get away with an MBC?...or will an ebc make my life a whole lot easier?

well, thanks again for all of the help guys, I really can't wait to get this car moving!

The EBC will make your life easier, have better control of the boost and even spool up the turbo quicker. Using an MBC along with the N75 just controls boost spikes and thats about it so the MBC isn't doing much else.

You just leave the N75 in the engine bay because the ecu must see that it is still there taking the signal the ecu is sending it. Other then that it isn't controlling anything since there is no pressure going to it. If you pull the N75 out of the intake tube you dont have to loop the other 2 ends, only reason you must loop them is when the 3rd nipple on the N75 is still connected to the intake tube since that is still allowing the turbo to suck air out unmetered air thru the N75 when it is in the open position.


The clutch job is just as easy as doing a turbo install if you have the right tools.