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fred2ka4
11-12-2007, 09:11 PM
I am in the market for a new fmic and right now I am leaning heavily towards the Racetec as it seems to be one of the best ones out for the B5. I want something that will work well with my mods and that will also fill the front bumper nicely. The Greddy one has served well but it is now time for something new.

I also wanted to know if anyone has any feed back on the Forge fmic as I have not seen anyone running this one but it looks to be of good quality. Any suggestions would be appreciated.



http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j91/fred2ka4/6966.jpg


http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j91/fred2ka4/7226.jpg

audiFUEGO
11-12-2007, 09:15 PM
not going with the COBB? [:D]

4ringAR
11-12-2007, 09:16 PM
You know where I stand (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=171028) on this one. [:D]

If nothing else you should get a black anodized one. It would go much better with the carbonfiber/black and bamboo theme you have going.[up]

pinky
11-12-2007, 09:19 PM
i tried to get a forge and i couldnt.. i dont know if they're available

fred2ka4
11-12-2007, 09:27 PM
I would love to do the CF fmic but I would also want the piping as well and being that the one you showed is made for another car I'm not sure it would be something that would be available in the near future.

Does Cobb sell FMIC kits for Audi's?

AudiA4_20T
11-12-2007, 09:32 PM
no... The forge is decent but the core is a bit small, I would assume that it could hold your power though

fred2ka4
11-12-2007, 09:35 PM
Does anyone know if a ER fmic for a B6 could be made to fit a B5?

mike-2ptzero
11-12-2007, 09:35 PM
I guess the one from ER is never going to hit the market.

fred2ka4
11-12-2007, 09:53 PM
I guess the one from ER is never going to hit the market.

That's why I was wondering if the ER fmic for the B6 could be made to fit the B5 being that the motor placement should be just about the same even though the body is different.

sean1.8t
11-12-2007, 09:59 PM
^i've always wondered that. it'll have everything you need. just not sure if the piping will run into anything that is on the B5 that isn't on the B6..

but what is the problem with your GReddy unit? heatsoak?

4ringAR
11-12-2007, 10:03 PM
I would love to do the CF fmic but I would also want the piping as well and being that the one you showed is made for another car I'm not sure it would be something that would be available in the near future.

Does Cobb sell FMIC kits for Audi's?

I think that if you were really serious about the carbon fiber intercooler, and spoke with Cobb about doing a custom one for you, my guess is that they would definantly take it into consideration.
Your car would be a drop dead show winner if you got the c/f intercooler.[eek]

fred2ka4
11-12-2007, 10:10 PM
but what is the problem with your GReddy unit? heatsoak?


Not a thing, I just want something different. I also had to piece the piping together as the fmic was made for a stock turbo'd car and I am a stage III. For the most part it works great but it could be better ............ [:D]

Here is how it looks now ......


http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j91/fred2ka4/Audiengine-brace021.jpg

sean1.8t
11-12-2007, 10:29 PM
well if it ain't broke don't fix it!

but knowing you, you'll change it out anyways [:)]

maybe keep it and annodize it black? just a suggestion.

i just wouldn't change a thing. i mean, you're not getting any heatsoak that you can notice. and it looks like your core's location is really ideal for airflow

DND
11-12-2007, 11:14 PM
Hey if you're going to upgrade anyway how much do you want for the old one?

fred2ka4
11-13-2007, 06:32 AM
Forge makes a lot of stuff that I didn't know about. check out this DV relocation kit that puts it on the cold side. I think I want this as well.

Does anyone have any first hand experience with moving the DV to the cold side and any benefits that it yields?


http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j91/fred2ka4/FMCSDVR.jpg

fred2ka4
11-13-2007, 06:41 AM
Hey if you're going to upgrade anyway how much do you want for the old one?

Well right now my old fmic, all the piping and the APR throttle body hose are pending a local sale but if he decides not to get it I will let you know.

pinky
11-13-2007, 07:36 AM
greddy kit is also no longer available.

fred2ka4
11-13-2007, 10:45 AM
greddy kit is also no longer available.

Are you sure? Because I still see them for sale online, unless they are just selling off their stock.

After a little research I am now leaning towards the Forge as it is just about as wide as my GReddy so it will fill the bumper opening well. The Racetec is a little narrower so there will be more space showing around the end tanks. It has to be able to perform as well as look good.

I have not made a definite decision yet but all the input from you guys is helping.

speedydragon
11-13-2007, 10:54 AM
You've got the whole winter! :D

WunderWagen
11-13-2007, 10:59 AM
Fred, remember the issue I had with the Racetec on my B6 Audi.... just FYI. I would also reconsider the black look since you are thinking about showing it and you might want more visual appeal for show points.

With that said, I think Forge has a great reputation so there kit should work well.

David

P.S. Did you get my e-mail I sent you yesterday?

fred2ka4
11-13-2007, 11:38 AM
Fred, remember the issue I had with the Racetec on my B6 Audi.... just FYI. I would also reconsider the black look since you are thinking about showing it and you might want more visual appeal for show points.

With that said, I think Forge has a great reputation so there kit should work well.

David

P.S. Did you get my e-mail I sent you yesterday?

I had completely forgot about all the problems you had with your Racetec fmic and I know I don't want to go through the same thing. I know Forge has a good reputation so I will have to do a little more research on tht one.

I have not read any emails since the last time I talked to you about the SEMA pictures you sent me. I'll get on that today as I am on my way out the door as I type ......... [:D]

mike-2ptzero
11-13-2007, 01:31 PM
Hey fred just got off the phone with Fred at ER. Their B5 FMIC kit will be hitting the market very soon since all of the testing is done. I might even be able to do a GB thru my DTH account here if there are enough people interested. MSRP is going to be $1395 but I am sure we can get that price way lower with enough people.

soupie69uk
11-13-2007, 01:55 PM
Forge makes a lot of stuff that I didn't know about. check out this DV relocation kit that puts it on the cold side. I think I want this as well.

Does anyone have any first hand experience with moving the DV to the cold side and any benefits that it yields?


http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j91/fred2ka4/FMCSDVR.jpg

I did that, but was mainly just so my dv was easier to access and was about 100x's louder.

Can now make it sound like a bus if required to scare people.

fred2ka4
11-13-2007, 02:28 PM
Hey fred just got off the phone with Fred at ER. Their B5 FMIC kit will be hitting the market very soon since all of the testing is done. I might even be able to do a GB thru my DTH account here if there are enough people interested. MSRP is going to be $1395 but I am sure we can get that price way lower with enough people.

According to their website, it won't be ready til mid July of 08 but I know you have a working relationship with Fred at ER so let me know how soon it will be ready.

Keep in mind that I have the APR stage III setup, because when David ordered the Racetec fmic for his B6 he had a lot of problems with fitment because of the placement of the turbo on his Elim kit. I also had problems with the GReddy fmic for the same reasons as the kit was designed for a stock turbo and not an upgraded setup.

dingguhlbary
11-13-2007, 04:11 PM
I did that, but was mainly just so my dv was easier to access and was about 100x's louder.

Can now make it sound like a bus if required to scare people.

did it help at all performance wise? or just loud as hell? and how did it get louder with just the relocation?

crap, sorry about the thread jack

audiFUEGO
11-13-2007, 04:18 PM
i dont think it would benefit performance. The DV releases hot air coming out of the turbo. It would be beneficial to keep it there so that hot air can travel thru the FMIC before entering the IM. Relocating it will just defeat the purpose.

Some people relocate their BOV to the cold side so that the hot air being ejected doesnt get sucked up thru the intake...correct if im wrong

pinky
11-13-2007, 06:00 PM
Are you sure? Because I still see them for sale online, unless they are just selling off their stock.

i heard from a reputable source. *shrug*

sean1.8t
11-13-2007, 07:11 PM
i dont think it would benefit performance. The DV releases hot air coming out of the turbo. It would be beneficial to keep it there so that hot air can travel thru the FMIC before entering the IM. Relocating it will just defeat the purpose.

actually no, it's not defeating the purpose. relocating to the coldside is actually pretty benefitial to performance. relocating your bypass valve so it is closest to the TB reduces lag inbetween purges of the valve. it helps keep most of the air in the intake/intercooler tract present and pressurized.



Some people relocate their BOV to the cold side so that the hot air being ejected doesnt get sucked up thru the intake...correct if im wrong

that might be true for some cars i guess. but since we're dealing with DV's on our audi's, i don't think that is going to be taken into consideration [;)]

audiFUEGO
11-13-2007, 07:29 PM
actually no, it's not defeating the purpose. relocating to the coldside is actually pretty benefitial to performance. relocating your bypass valve so it is closest to the TB reduces lag inbetween purges of the valve. it helps keep most of the air in the intake/intercooler tract present and pressurized.


How could it reduce lag more so than the stock location? Anything after the turbo is going to be pressurized, no? I was saying that relocating it will only feed the engine hot air (ie. "non-intercooled" air). Plus, with the turbo on the left side, you would need a long hose running from the DV inlet to the Turbo outlet hose. Longer hose means more air space to pressurize = more lag.

im no expert by anymeans and i may be wrong

mike-2ptzero
11-13-2007, 07:35 PM
actually no, it's not defeating the purpose. relocating to the coldside is actually pretty benefitial to performance. relocating your bypass valve so it is closest to the TB reduces lag inbetween purges of the valve. it helps keep most of the air in the intake/intercooler tract present and pressurized.



that might be true for some cars i guess. but since we're dealing with DV's on our audi's, i don't think that is going to be taken into consideration [;)]



Having the BPV after the FMIC also helps since it is returning cooler air back to the front of the turbo. The hot air coming out of the BPV at the stock spot is then being heated even more as it gets compressed again. Only down side is that you end up with a 4-5 ft long return hose which the turbo then has to suck the air out of.



How could it reduce lag more so than the stock location? Anything after the turbo is going to be pressurized, no? I was saying that relocating it will only feed the engine hot air (ie. "non-intercooled" air).


It reduces lag because the turbo is still moving air, having the BPV or BOV very close to the throttle body means there is less space that no longer has pressure. When the bpv is near the turbo you end up having no pressure in the IC pipes and fmic.


Plus, with the turbo on the left side, you would need a long hose running from the DV inlet to the Turbo outlet hose. Longer hose means more air space to pressurize = more lag.


The return line will be long but it doesn't get pressure seeing that it goes from the outlet of the DV(BPV) to the "inlet" of the turbo. Not sure how you see it going to the turbo outlet. You do know the DV releases pressure/air from the IC pipe back to the turbo not the other way around right? This means the DV return hose sees vacuum most of the time till the DV opens.

fred2ka4
11-14-2007, 06:16 AM
Mike, don't forget to call Fred for me @ ER to find out about the competition kit and when it would be made available for my application.

Thanks

soupie69uk
11-14-2007, 07:03 AM
Yeah I think it may help performance a tiny bit resurculating cool air instead of hot.

But as mike says you do then have a long hose for the air to go along.

It did make my valve if i put to blow off loud as hell. Sounds like a bus if you open it right up. When I had it fitted in the stock place you could hardly hear it.

Here is a pic from over 2 years ago.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/Soupie69uk/DSC01386.jpg

My DV now faces down due to me fitting a fmic. I can take new pics if anyone really needs.

mike-2ptzero
11-14-2007, 07:28 AM
Mike, don't forget to call Fred for me @ ER to find out about the competition kit and when it would be made available for my application.

Thanks

Damn I am glad I read this because I forgot already[;)]

Dont worry I will and I will post it up or call you after I find out. I will even try to see what type of gb price I can get it down too for other people that might be interested in buying it.

audiFUEGO
11-14-2007, 06:17 PM
The return line will be long but it doesn't get pressure seeing that it goes from the outlet of the DV(BPV) to the "inlet" of the turbo. Not sure how you see it going to the turbo outlet. You do know the DV releases pressure/air from the IC pipe back to the turbo not the other way around right? This means the DV return hose sees vacuum most of the time till the DV opens.

No i was talking about the pressure line. The pressure line that runs from the turbo outlet hose to the "inlet" of the DV. That will also have to pressurized when the DV is shut. Pressurizing an extra 2.5 feet of hose would cause unnecessary lag, no? the return line u speak of wouldnt need to be long, since its returning the air right before the throttle body (and the DV is relocated right in that area)

And when the DV opens, its going to release hot air either way, because the air is coming straight from the turbo. It would be beneficial, imo, to release that hot air before the IC, instead of releasing it right into the throttle body.

Again i may be wrong this is just my logic.

sean1.8t
11-14-2007, 07:45 PM
No i was talking about the pressure line. The pressure line that runs from the turbo outlet hose to the "inlet" of the DV. That will also have to pressurized when the DV is shut. Pressurizing an extra 2.5 feet of hose would cause unnecessary lag, no? the return line u speak of wouldnt need to be long, since its returning the air right before the throttle body (and the DV is relocated right in that area)

And when the DV opens, its going to release hot air either way, because the air is coming straight from the turbo. It would be beneficial, imo, to release that hot air before the IC, instead of releasing it right into the throttle body.

Again i may be wrong this is just my logic.

dude, you aren't getting how the whole DV system works. let me brake it down to you to you're on the right track. the line that runs from the turbo outlet to the inlet of the DV is the same hose/pipe that links the turbo to the inlet of your intercooler. there is no extra hose for the DV.

and yes, the return line does have to be long. the return line directs the air from the DV(when it opens) to the intake right after your MAF sensor. look at the blue hose that goes across the front of the engine bay in Soupie's pic. that is the return line

look at the picture above posted by Soupie, the DV is relocated to right before his throttle body. depending on how you do it, the fitting that connects the DV into the pressurized line is only about 1 to 4 inches long.. this is equal to or only inches longer than the hose was when the DV was in the stock location. so there will be no extra lag due to this

trust us, it is more beneficial to have your DV on the coldside than the hotside

Pat@Forge
11-15-2007, 07:08 AM
And assuming that you were correct pressurizing that extra volume would take maybe 10 milliseconds.

fred2ka4
11-15-2007, 08:13 AM
Well after all was said and done you know how these threads usually end up ......................... Not doing what the thread was posted for ...... [rolleyes]

Hopefully after talking with Mike I will be able to get one of the first ER competition kits for the B5 very soon ........ [:D]

Stay posted for install pics ..........

Ado
11-15-2007, 08:33 AM
gooluck on the first er kit that mike hooks u up with. we want to see pics and dyno numbers. lol.

whats taking so long. lets get this show on the road.

mike-2ptzero
11-15-2007, 08:46 AM
gooluck on the first er kit that mike hooks u up with. we want to see pics and dyno numbers. lol.

whats taking so long. lets get this show on the road.

ER has pics of the B5 comp kit on their web site. I think fred has posted those pics once before. If it uses the same core as what they use for the B6 comp kit then the core is 20x11x3, which means it will have to be used with a S4 or aftermarket bumper. I will try to get more info from fred at ER today.


Pics from ER site.
http://www.evolutionracewerks.com/gallery/B5A4CompetitionFMIC/463_B5A4CompFMIC8.JPG

http://www.evolutionracewerks.com/gallery/B5A4CompetitionFMIC/462_B5A4CompFMIC1.JPG


I wonder how many people would be interested in this kit if I could get a GB price of around $1100 or maybe even down to $1050 depending on how many people get in? Thats about $300+ off the MSRP.

fred2ka4
11-15-2007, 09:01 AM
Well since Mike has already posted up the pictures here is my new question and poll for everyone to help me decide on a color. I like the polished look but I am seriously considering the black anodized one with piping. Let me know what you think and here is another picture that has already been posted but should help visually.


http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j91/fred2ka4/165_CompFMICmain.jpg

Pat@Forge
11-15-2007, 09:20 AM
Our kit is available its just on backorder right now.

pinky
11-15-2007, 11:06 AM
nice.. good info.. thanks pat.