Audi A4 1.8L GT3071r Phase 3

[Beemer832]

After reading all of these big turbo, big bore engine posts I figured I might as well add to the running list.

Plan: 2.0l engine with 9:1 compression ratio
GT3071r or gt3076 depending on what will be easier to fit and mount with APR mani
400chp, anything more would be great

Budget: Whatever Visa and Mastercard are willing to Sponsor me
~also taking donations~

Time Frame: 1 week ago - March 15th (21st Bday)

Tentative Parts:
Scat rods
83mm Wiseco or JE pistons 9:1 cr
GT3071r or GT3076 turbo
oil pump
complete engine gasket and seal kit
main and crank bearings
balanced crank
motor and tranny mounts
intake - not sure which one yet might be going homemade
MAF??
tune - ImagineAuto
clutch throw out bearing

Current mod list:
Southbend DXD stage 3 clutch
3" no-cat turbo back exhaust
s4 6 speed transmission and drive train
APR stage 3 fueling


Currently I am on phase 1, engine removal. All work is being done in my garage so tools and space are limited. Here are some pics of my current status. I am hoping to have the engine out by next weekend so I can start getting parts ordered and get the engine to the machine shop.

I am stuck on how to remove the engine though. Do i need to drop the tranny out first? Take the engine and tranny out together? I haven't really convinced myself there is an easy way to get it out of there. Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated.

Happy viewing!!
http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/63/463/8/58/82/2663858820057957151qYQFZp_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2663858820057957151qYQFZp)
http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/69/69/5/94/88/2297594880057957151ZQmDSZ_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2297594880057957151ZQmDSZ)
http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/64/564/7/25/38/2714725380057957151OzACZa_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2714725380057957151OzACZa)
These two nuts are a bitch. i don't know how they get these torqued. Going to get a swivel socket tomm to see if that does the trick.
http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/55/555/2/11/92/2573211920057957151Plmmjg_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2573211920057957151Plmmjg)
Enough wires and vacuum lines to make anyone go nuts.
http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/60/460/7/66/4/2443766040057957151nLXVOL_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2443766040057957151nLXVOL)
Parts
http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/58/558/6/46/43/2200646430057957151nppfgP_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2200646430057957151nppfgP)
More parts
http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/60/460/3/67/69/2771367690057957151SozXNV_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2771367690057957151SozXNV)
The new daily driver, winter beater.
http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/64/564/2/58/17/2866258170057957151tlFeCC_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2866258170057957151tlFeCC)

Thanks
Josh

[317ssayzarc]

you have pm sir...

[goody6691]

what tuning system, chip, standalone?

[Nebone]

When I seen these motors out the transmission was left in. Good luck with the build.

[TQMB5]

when i did mine i took the engine out leaving the tranny in, if i redid if i would take the tranny out with it, lining the engine back up to the bell housing was a BITCH!

[JumboBlack1.8]

What're you doin with that old turbo?? is it still usable?

[Beemer832]

Yep, the GT28R is still in very good condition. I will take picuters of stuff when I figure out what I will be doing. might be running that turbo for a little while or might just say F it and get the turbo sooner then later.

I will have a FS post once I get things out of the way and get replacements or upgrades.

Thanks for the info so far. I will get some more pics once i get this baby out of the engine bay.

Josh

[Beemer832]

not sure on tune yet. ImagineAuto.com they guy who is going to be doing my engine build also does Porsche, VW and Audi tuning. I think he supports GIAC. They have a nice ass mustange AWD dyno so I know he could tune it, just not sure on pricing. I guess I will cross that bridge when I get there.

Josh

[Tifun]

Looks like our car list is similar hehe Good looking project. I'm also in the same boat as you with wanting to do an upgrade from the 28r....in due time [:)]

[Beemer832]

Tifun, thats funny dude. Your rocking the protege5 too.. not my color choice. actually that car is int he dealership today too for a CEL. piece o crap so far, havent even had it a week.

yea I am hoping this whole build goes smooth and on plan but I am sure Iw ill run into a few hiccups along the way..

good news is, all those KO3 and KO4 guys will have a list of GT28r kits to choose from once we all start going bigger :)

josh

[onemoremile]

[wrench][up] nice.

[A4Rob]

Keep us updated

[Rosati]

^^ Ay jim, im just going walbro - appreciate it

Nice, you took the dreaded first step thats up next for me

If your going 307xR , Then just Tapp tune it.


Your going to need custom pistons, Did you order them?

[Tifun]

Tifun, thats funny dude. Your rocking the protege5 too.. not my color choice. actually that car is int he dealership today too for a CEL. piece o crap so far, havent even had it a week.

yea I am hoping this whole build goes smooth and on plan but I am sure Iw ill run into a few hiccups along the way..

good news is, all those KO3 and KO4 guys will have a list of GT28r kits to choose from once we all start going bigger :)

josh

We've had ours since new. Number 420 off the assembly line and the first one in Indiana lol....over 110,000 miles and only replaced one wheel bearing, struts and a caliper. Been an outstnading car.

As for the Audi, you shouldn't have too many issues, seems like you've done your homework. I'm still in the process of doing that as well. I'm trying to decide if I want to do the tapp tune or go back to the guy I normally get tune work done with(Jeff Atwood.) And that's even if I stay with this engine. Who knows, I have a hybrid swap plan and the engine already...only time and $ will determine my route. I'm gonna watch your build closely and see where you end up. Hopefully it will motivate me to go one way or the other since I am torn and really have a lot of dislike towards the 1.8t [headbang]

[Beemer832]

yea the mazda is a cool little car, only 1 week old for me and having problems, i think its just a dumb sensor/electrical issue so.

yea I am trying to get as much info about these engines and tune possibilites before i get knee deep in bills....i am just trying to do as much work myself as possible. i know imagineauto is a great reputable shop, more so known for their 997 911 turbo putting down over 700hp on a twin turbo setup.... anywho they are all great guys down there just a bit $$$ but you pay for waht you get...

ill keep everyone updated as this project persists over winter... march 15th is my deadline (21st bday)

josh

[killa]

looks good.

[dualaudi]

Can you get 2.0 with 83mm? or are you using a different crank, while cutting the inside of the motor to fit?

Best of luck man... i can't wait to hear about this when it's finished... vids and pix!

a thread I came across re: the 2.0 route (http://audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102534&highlight=83mm+piston).

[killa]

Can you get 2.0 with 83mm? or are you using a different crank, while cutting the inside of the motor to fit?


stock 1.8 crank = 86.4mm

2liter crank = 92.8mm

92.8mm crank with 82.5mm bore = 1984cc
92.8mm crank with 83mm bore = 2008cc
92.8mm crank with 83.5mm bore = 2032cc

[Beemer832]

the stock AEB crank with cylinders bored to 83mm should still give a 2.0l displacement correct?


josh

[Don Supreme]

^ No it does not.

[Beemer832]

what does that give then?

josh

[Tifun]

yea the mazda is a cool little car, only 1 week old for me and having problems, i think its just a dumb sensor/electrical issue so.

yea I am trying to get as much info about these engines and tune possibilites before i get knee deep in bills....i am just trying to do as much work myself as possible. i know imagineauto is a great reputable shop, more so known for their 997 911 turbo putting down over 700hp on a twin turbo setup.... anywho they are all great guys down there just a bit $$$ but you pay for waht you get...

ill keep everyone updated as this project persists over winter... march 15th is my deadline (21st bday)

josh
Yeah I should have mine done well before then lol. I have ADD, If I made it last that long, I wouldn't get it done for like 2 years.....I have to do everything at once and be done with it or I will procrastinate. [:(]

[AudiA4_20T]

what does that give then?

josh

1.9 or not even I think 83.5 is needed to get 1.9 without the crank...

[Beemer832]

UPDATE..

Moving onto Phase 2 ~finally~

Engine is apart. I was very close to a catastrophe..4 out of the 5 bolts that hold the flywheel onto the crank were less then hand tight. This would explain my clutch noise which i assumed was my throw out bearing. Clutch and flywheel looked to wear good.

I have purchase SCAT rods, ordering custom pistons with the 83mm bore. Calico bearings with their piston coating to reduce friction. ARP head and main studs, and also flywheel bolts. Making a decent order in the next few days for a majority of the parts.

Shooting for the first week of March to have the engine back. Will run APR kit until I have enough to grab a GT28 housing turbo bored to flow like a 3071R and the Tapp tune to go along with it :).

I was to excited to see my parts tonight and didn't get a chance to snap some pics. I'll try to remember next time.

-josh

[AudiA4_20T]

UPDATE..

Moving onto Phase 2 ~finally~

Engine is apart. I was very close to a catastrophe..4 out of the 5 bolts that hold the flywheel onto the crank were less then hand tight. This would explain my clutch noise which i assumed was my throw out bearing. Clutch and flywheel looked to wear good.

I have purchase SCAT rods, ordering custom pistons with the 83mm bore. Calico bearings with their piston coating to reduce friction. ARP head and main studs, and also flywheel bolts. Making a decent order in the next few days for a majority of the parts.

Shooting for the first week of March to have the engine back. Will run APR kit until I have enough to grab a GT28 housing turbo bored to flow like a 3071R and the Tapp tune to go along with it :).

I was to excited to see my parts tonight and didn't get a chance to snap some pics. I'll try to remember next time.

-josh

Nice are you building this sucker yourself? If you are, get an extra set of rings, I cracked one today and it sucks ass

[317ssayzarc]

let me know if you need any parts josh [;)]

[tonelee1316]

do u have a part # for the arp head studs???

[mike-2ptzero]

UPDATE..

Moving onto Phase 2 ~finally~

Engine is apart. I was very close to a catastrophe..4 out of the 5 bolts that hold the flywheel onto the crank were less then hand tight. This would explain my clutch noise which i assumed was my throw out bearing. Clutch and flywheel looked to wear good.

I have purchase SCAT rods, ordering custom pistons with the 83mm bore. Calico bearings with their piston coating to reduce friction. ARP head and main studs, and also flywheel bolts. Making a decent order in the next few days for a majority of the parts.

Shooting for the first week of March to have the engine back. Will run APR kit until I have enough to grab a GT28 housing turbo bored to flow like a 3071R and the Tapp tune to go along with it :).

I was to excited to see my parts tonight and didn't get a chance to snap some pics. I'll try to remember next time.

-josh


Have you thought of running a real 3071r or 3076r on a full race manifold? You could even sell the APR kit to cover most of your cost for a newer setup and go Tapp tuning.

[killa]

Have you thought of running a real 3071r or 3076r on a full race manifold? You could even sell the APR kit to cover most of your cost for a newer setup and go Tapp tuning.

What is your definitio of a "real" GT3071R oh wise one? [:D]

[quattro16]

Funny how many people are parts dealers now.
Everybody wants a piece of the cheeeeeeesssseeee!!!!

[mike-2ptzero]

What is your definitio of a "real" GT3071R oh wise one? [:D]

LOL. I was just saying a GT3071r with a T3 housing instead of the hybrid setup with the GT28 housing seeing that he said he was still going to use the APR manifold.



Funny how many people are parts dealers now.
Everybody wants a piece of the cheeeeeeesssseeee!!!!

Well if I just wanted a piece of the cheese I wouldn't be giving such big discounts to the AZ members. [:D]

[Beemer832]

yea not 100% sure what I am going to do yet. Thats a few months down the road still. my plan is to go with the hybrid 28 housing and the APR mani. My goal is to make this 100% street driveable so I don't wnat anything overkill and I obviously am not going for top of the line parts so...

The ARP studs can be found at msot audi parts dealers and at the ARP website, not sure what they are off the top of my head.

and NO i am definitely not building this myself.

-josh

[mike-2ptzero]

yea not 100% sure what I am going to do yet. Thats a few months down the road still. my plan is to go with the hybrid 28 housing and the APR mani. My goal is to make this 100% street driveable so I don't wnat anything overkill and I obviously am not going for top of the line parts so...

The ARP studs can be found at msot audi parts dealers and at the ARP website, not sure what they are off the top of my head.

and NO i am definitely not building this myself.

-josh


Well I was just offering options since you said you might be going with Tapp tuning.


So is the setup your going for basicly like the apr stage 3+?

[Beemer832]

not sure... i am just kind of playing it by year. my goal was 400whp... don't think i will be able to get there thought, at least not yet. The bottom engine should be solid enough now to run more boost and power safely.

I was recomended that hybrid turbo setup and Tapp tune by Jake. Still not sure what I will do. I know that the full Gt30 wont fit with the APR mani.... and I could always sell that and the kit to get some $$ out of it. It should help to offset the costs of the bigger turbo, injectors, and manifold and tune.... I guess we will see in the future..

-josh

[mike-2ptzero]

not sure... i am just kind of playing it by year. my goal was 400whp... don't think i will be able to get there thought, at least not yet. The bottom engine should be solid enough now to run more boost and power safely.

I was recomended that hybrid turbo setup and Tapp tune by Jake. Still not sure what I will do. I know that the full Gt30 wont fit with the APR mani.... and I could always sell that and the kit to get some $$ out of it. It should help to offset the costs of the bigger turbo, injectors, and manifold and tune.... I guess we will see in the future..

-josh

Thats cool. Well just let me know if you need any help. I am giving 5%-15% off of the FR stuff to AZ members but depends on what is ordered. Also discounts on other products we sell.

[jrock]

You can hit 500 awhp on the gt3076r with the right supproting mods. That is the turbo i think i will be doing now. But you can easily hit 400whp with a chip tuning on this turbo on pump gas. With a standalone and fine tuning i have even seen 500whp. With head work you can also rev it up to 8500rpms. The gt3076r is nearly the same turbo as the gt3071r but it can flow i believe like a 100 more hp.

[Beemer832]

mike,

can you get valves and head components for a pretty good price? not sure what will need to be replaced yet but just so I know.

-josh

[killa]

You can hit 500 awhp on the gt3076r with the right supproting mods. That is the turbo i think i will be doing now. But you can easily hit 400whp with a chip tuning on this turbo on pump gas. With a standalone and fine tuning i have even seen 500whp. With head work you can also rev it up to 8500rpms. The gt3076r is nearly the same turbo as the gt3071r but it can flow i believe like a 100 more hp.

You will have a hard time hitting 500whp with any GT3076R on a 1.8t

There is more than one GT3071R as well, the bigger one has the 60mm turbine wheel and that's the one that flows more, you can get over 400whp with that one as well.
For 500whp for sure bet on a GT30R -14, BillyT had a Big GT3076R (-12) and fell 5whp short of that 500whp goal at full boost.

[jrock]

Was that on pump gas?

[317ssayzarc]

The ARP studs can be found at msot audi parts dealers and at the ARP website, not sure what they are off the top of my head.

arp does head studs? i know raceware does but i didnt think arp did...

BUT, you dont need them, the stock headbolts have been proven to over 675whp [;)]

[killa]

Was that on pump gas?

No, you can't run that much boost on pump, that was over 30psi, I mean you could but you'll sit there forever trying to pull timing back, i've seen a friend put down 502whp with a T3/T04E 50 trim .82 52wheel at 32psi of boost, his timing at that boost was about 5 degrees ATDC

[jrock]

All i know is that i wanna hit atleast 400whp for the daily drving and then kick it up to about 500+ on race gas when im running it. But i got some time to get the funds ready. Sorry to thread jack.

[317ssayzarc]

No, you can't run that much boost on pump, that was over 30psi, I mean you could but you'll sit there forever trying to pull timing back, i've seen a friend put down 502whp with a T3/T04E 50 trim .82 52wheel at 32psi of boost, his timing at that boost was about 5 degrees ATDC

i hope to run close to that on 93 with direct port w/m and super low iats

[bassed]

The ARP studs can be found at msot audi parts dealers and at the ARP website,
-josh

You're talking about Head Studs? Since when did ARP make Audi headstuds? Raceware is what we all have used. To my knowledge the only ARP Headstuds available for a VAG are for the VR's.


i hope to run close to that on 93 with direct port w/m and super low iats

You should re-think your turbo choice. There are awesome benifits to W/M, lower IAT's (especially if doing a 2 injector setup - one on FMIC charge and one on TB), retarding timing etc.... but there is still a level and realm of what's safe and what's not IMO.

[317ssayzarc]

You're talking about Head Studs? Since when did ARP make Audi headstuds? Raceware is what we all have used. To my knowledge the only ARP Headstuds available for a VAG are for the VR's.

yea thats what i thought as well [confused]

[Beemer832]

oops I was mistaken. i jsut assumed they made studs for all applications. no 1.8 20v engines listed though. I guess I will be going with raceware if they have them

[mike-2ptzero]

mike,

can you get valves and head components for a pretty good price? not sure what will need to be replaced yet but just so I know.

-josh

Yes I can. Just let me know what you need and when you might need it.



oops I was mistaken. i jsut assumed they made studs for all applications. no 1.8 20v engines listed though. I guess I will be going with raceware if they have them


Yes raceware is the only option for us A4 1.8t owners. If you need a set of those I can get those from more then 1 of my vendors.

[317ssayzarc]

oops I was mistaken. i jsut assumed they made studs for all applications. no 1.8 20v engines listed though. I guess I will be going with raceware if they have them

it ok... i can get you the raceware stuff if you need it

[Silence]

You should contact arnold at pagparts. He can hook you with with a gt30 variant that will fit the APR manifold. I highly recommend loking into it at least. Do not use the gt28 variant.

[onemoremile]

Tial housing?

[mike-2ptzero]

Tial housing?

Only down side to tial housings is the fact that no one makes a vband flanged manifold.

[killa]

Only down side to tial housings is the fact that no one makes a vband flanged manifold.

Arnold has Vband flanged manifolds, but the housing he's talking about is an HKS unit, T25 flanged and a/r ratio in the .70's, turbine that is, that makes it flow more than your standard .63, all things being equal (wheel)

[A4ringedONE8T]

Not a wise idea to do all this on credit cards but sick project!! Good luck! [up]

[mike-2ptzero]

Not a wise idea to do all this on credit cards but sick project!! Good luck! [up]

Hey thats the only way to earn reward points.[:p][;)]

[94jedi]

man EVERYONE is going built motor BT now!

[onemoremile]

man EVERYONE is going built motor BT now!

lets all hold hands and sing kumbayah. the age of enlightenment is upon us at last.

[Beemer832]

who said credit cards......??? I am squeezing my bank account dry with this project :)

The BT and tune are still some months off. The engine build itself is going to be costly, plus I have two DE's coming up early spring that I would like to give the engine a good run through. Then you have brake pads, tires, fluid, and so forth....

-josh

[mike-2ptzero]

man EVERYONE is going built motor BT now!

Well the cars are 7-12 years old now, so the only choice is to build or buy a brand new engine.

[bassed]

who said credit cards......??? I am squeezing my bank account dry with this project :)

The BT and tune are still some months off. The engine build itself is going to be costly, plus I have two DE's coming up early spring that I would like to give the engine a good run through. Then you have brake pads, tires, fluid, and so forth....

-josh

Not PADs you need a brake upgrade to A8 at least[rolleyes]

[bassed]

Well the cars are 7-12 years old now, so the only choice is to build or buy a brand new engine.

You can grenade them as well and then build a brand new engine [:D]

[94jedi]

Well the cars are 7-12 years old now, so the only choice is to build or buy a brand new engine.

true, and most of them have higher mileage....makes sense.

[AudiA4_20T]

hey man do you have all the parts for the 2.0? Seriously do this in stages, your going to run out of money if you try to do them both, take it from someone who just finished their 2.0

[Beemer832]

hey man do you have all the parts for the 2.0? Seriously do this in stages, your going to run out of money if you try to do them both, take it from someone who just finished their 2.0

not going 2.0 just 83mm bore. and yes i have all the main components. I am waiting on turbo and tune for sometime to get the funds built back up. If I had the money to do it now then I would :)

-josh

[317ssayzarc]

You should re-think your turbo choice. There are awesome benifits to W/M, lower IAT's (especially if doing a 2 injector setup - one on FMIC charge and one on TB), retarding timing etc.... but there is still a level and realm of what's safe and what's not IMO.

cant believe i missed this! sorry bassed!

well i can easily run a 105 oct file on 93 w/ direct port wm... plus one nozzle on the IC outlet... im not trying to run a c16 file or anything lol!

as for the turbo, i am limited on money at the moment... the car already had apr stage 3 so i am using the mani and dp from that... with a t25 flange and the turbo right up against the framerail, i was limited to a hybrid 3071r... you will be seeing a twin scroll turbo within the next year, this is only temporary [;)]

[Silence]

Arnold has Vband flanged manifolds, but the housing he's talking about is an HKS unit, T25 flanged and a/r ratio in the .70's, turbine that is, that makes it flow more than your standard .63, all things being equal (wheel)


Ya, as he said, it's an HKS unit (who also makes bad ass turbos albeit more pricey) that will work on that setup. If I were to use that manifold, that's definitely the route I'd go.

[bassed]

cant believe i missed this! sorry bassed!

well i can easily run a 105 oct file on 93 w/ direct port wm... plus one nozzle on the IC outlet... im not trying to run a c16 file or anything lol!

as for the turbo, i am limited on money at the moment... the car already had apr stage 3 so i am using the mani and dp from that... with a t25 flange and the turbo right up against the framerail, i was limited to a hybrid 3071r... you will be seeing a twin scroll turbo within the next year, this is only temporary [;)]

No worries M8. Esentially running the W/M is like running 100-104. I think 400WHP on this setup will be pretty hard to get, but we'll soon see won't we[;)] I am about to put a BAT on as well, not 100% till Tuesday, but most likely a 3071 as well with a .63 Trim in T3 format[:D] Poopie and I will be interesting to keep an eye on since I will be doing a custom UNI tune and he's going to be staying with CTAPP. I'm a built 2.0 and he's soon to be a built 1.8[:)] Fun times ahead it's the new DAWN where it seems alot of B5 A4BATs are in zeee werks[up]

[317ssayzarc]

and im doing my best to make more BAT audis and vws... people get mad when i send the a full kit price http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff52/crazyass713/rant2.gif

[bassed]

and im doing my best to make more BAT audis and vws... people get mad when i send the a full kit price http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff52/crazyass713/rant2.gif


You don't need to worry about VW's there are a ton more BAT Dubs than Audi's[;)] I really think a bunch of us in the Mid-Atlantic should have a g2g or semi routine g2g of all the BAT/BT B5's and maybe do some cruises/video's.

I think alot of people would like to no?

[onemoremile]

You don't need to worry about VW's there are a ton more BAT Dubs than Audi's[;)] I really think a bunch of us in the Mid-Atlantic should have a g2g or semi routine g2g of all the BAT/BT B5's and maybe do some cruises/video's.

I think alot of people would like to no?

meet at deal's gap.

[Poopie]

aahhh the joy of building a car. Good luck! I hope the process of joining the BAT will be fun. So far, the only hiccup is my friend locked his garage and I had to break into it to steal his engine hoist. It took me all day and I forgot one of the legs...DOH!

[Beemer832]

i just broke 3 out of the 5 studs on the exhaust housing of my turbo off. these are the bolts that hold the downpipe on.... guess i will be outsourcing this work to make sure they get drilled out straight... SOB!

-josh

[317ssayzarc]

i just broke 3 out of the 5 studs on the exhaust housing of my turbo off. these are the bolts that hold the downpipe on.... guess i will be outsourcing this work to make sure they get drilled out straight... SOB!

-josh

sorry to hear that josh [down]

[loustylez]

duuuuuuuuuuude. how many times have i told you not to work on your car drunk.

[Rosati]

You don't need to worry about VW's there are a ton more BAT Dubs than Audi's[;)] I really think a bunch of us in the Mid-Atlantic should have a g2g or semi routine g2g of all the BAT/BT B5's and maybe do some cruises/video's.

I think alot of people would like to no?

Im down, but come to that one by me next month!

[Beemer832]

duuuuuuuuuuude. how many times have i told you not to work on your car drunk.

I was only on my 4th MGD :)....

-josh

[onemoremile]

O'Doul's hits harder than that stuff. [:p]



If you guys are buying blocks to rebuild you might be interested in a little BMW history. Back in the gool old days Formula 1 ran turbocharged 4 cylinders making obscene amounts of power. They had problems keeping the blocks together and tried every combination they could think of before stumbling on a great solution. They bought back used BMWs with 50-100k miles. These normal daily driver block had countless heat cycles which "seasoned" them and made them much stronger than anything brand new.

1.5 litres. 700-800 hp for racing, 1300 hp for qualifying.

http://www.gurneyflap.com/bmwturbof1engine.html

[Beemer832]

Just ordered the remainder of the internal engine parts needed to assemble the engine. The ony thing left is main studs, not sure if im going arp or raceware yet, and a possible flywheel friction service replacement, but other then that I have all of the parts.

Total cost so far is around $2000 but this includes $150 for a labor deposit. I am looking at around 3000-3500 after I am all said and done.

I'll post some pictures of the actual engine and parts when they arrive..

-josh

[TQMB5]

3000 for just the engine right? what turbo setup are you going with?

[pipe7284]

The good thing about doing all the labor yourself is the knowledge you acquire and alot of $$$$$$ on labor. i am about to start on mine. woot woot.

[Beemer832]

Yea this is just for engine internal, not fueling, tune or turbo. I will be eventually going with a 3071 hybrid running a ctapp tune.

next project engine will be a full 2.0l engine with the ABA crank and not sure what turbo. That wont be for some tme though. maybe next year...

and i am not doing the engine labor myself. I left the actual engine build up to someone who knows waht tehy are doing. I am just doing the install of the engine into the car.

-josh

[AudiA4_20T]

Yea this is just for engine internal, not fueling, tune or turbo. I will be eventually going with a 3071 hybrid running a ctapp tune.

next project engine will be a full 2.0l engine with the ABA crank and not sure what turbo. That wont be for some tme though. maybe next year...

and i am not doing the engine labor myself. I left the actual engine build up to someone who knows waht tehy are doing. I am just doing the install of the engine into the car.

-josh

good stuff man, it seems like your comming along. Now you have those threads to know exactly what you need [up]

[onemoremile]

The good thing about doing all the labor yourself is the knowledge you acquire and alot of $$$$$$ on labor. i am about to start on mine. woot woot.

Most engine shops charge 350-450 to hot tank and magnaflux the bare block and do a complete balanced and blueprinted build. It is impossible to duplicate this quality of work at home. For under 1000 you can have the block painted, align honed, head and block top decked, and the whole long block assembled ready to drop in.

[onemoremile]

Not PADs you need a brake upgrade to A8 at least[rolleyes]

Pads will be fine. The A8 rotors do nothing to help stopping distances but do help manage a bit more heat. The balance is what determines stopping distances. Optimal balance makes the most of all four contact patches. Shift the balance to the front or to the rear and stopping distances go up regardless of how big and fancy the front brakes are.

[Poopie]

My next build, I'm letting someone else build the motor. I just did mine, although I learned a lot, I don't have the patience to check clearences on so many things. All the main bearings, rod bearings, piston rings, cylinder round, piston size.....and everything is done 4 times. I can't imagine building a v8.

[317ssayzarc]

My next build, I'm letting someone else build the motor. I just did mine, although I learned a lot, I don't have the patience to check clearences on so many things. All the main bearings, rod bearings, piston rings, cylinder round, piston size.....and everything is done 4 times. I can't imagine building a v8.

v engines arent so fun... [;)]

[Beemer832]

Most engine shops charge 350-450 to hot tank and magnaflux the bare block and do a complete balanced and blueprinted build. It is impossible to duplicate this quality of work at home. For under 1000 you can have the block painted, align honed, head and block top decked, and the whole long block assembled ready to drop in.

amen to that brother...

with what you mentioned, it will run me approximately $1000-1200 in labor. I just need to bolt on the accessories and manifolds and drop it in.

-josh

[quattro16]

BAT race is on for some of us!!!!! And I am really close to be up and running!!!!!!!

[Poopie]

I'll be done this weekend if I ever get a compressor housing.

[bassed]

2-3 weeks at best including things going out for coatings (decided to do coatings again doooh).

[TQMB5]

Arnold has Vband flanged manifolds, but the housing he's talking about is an HKS unit, T25 flanged and a/r ratio in the .70's, turbine that is, that makes it flow more than your standard .63, all things being equal (wheel)

what about this tail housing that is v-band?

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread/2208465

[317ssayzarc]

poopie wins the race...

but who comes second?

gimme 2 weeks [;)]

[Beemer832]

i will definitely be late in the game. Engine won't be done for approx another 2-3 weeks, and then i have the install back into the car....
it just snowed here lsat night so I am in no real rush.

-josh

[loustylez]

i hope your engine blows up the first time you start it. you're probably better off just trading all of this junk for my 2.8. something more reliable.

oh, and we're still taking that mazda off a cliff. you don't need 2 cars.

[317ssayzarc]

i hope your engine blows up the first time you start it. you're probably better off just trading all of this junk for my 2.8. something more reliable.

oh, and we're still taking that mazda off a cliff. you don't need 2 cars.

wtf?

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff52/crazyass713/cheers.gif to all of that lol

[Beemer832]

how many beers have you had today?

lol

-josh

[mike-2ptzero]

poopie wins the race...

but who comes second?

gimme 2 weeks [;)]

The race was over 6 years ago, everyone else just comes in second.[;)][:p]

[onemoremile]

how many beers have you had today?


Urp, all of them...

[onemoremile]

what about this tail housing that is v-band?

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread/2208465

That is beautiful. I want one with a 3071r for the street and a 3076r for the track. Gotta have a nice cast manifold with the V band flanges though. [wrench][up]


but right now the tial housings are only cut for gt series turbos.

the only gain is the compact size, weight, and ease of instal/field removal.

http://www.synapseturbo.com/gallery/cache/d49b24f1cfa25127e3c73d27ef07151273b30724_800.jpg

[ILoveT]

B16 BABY! Ohh the roots...

[317ssayzarc]

onemoremile, this is for you...

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3672071

[onemoremile]

Thanks. I love that one. I want top mount so I can swap that and the ecu and maybe tweak fuel pressure and go from jekyll to hyde.

This is a nice way to fill time while we wait for an update.

[Beemer832]

so the vband flanges are round and almost use a hose clamp type clamping system to hold them to the manifold. what are the advantages gained with this type of manifold?

-josh

[sean1.8t]

so the vband flanges are round and almost use a hose clamp type clamping system to hold them to the manifold. what are the advantages gained with this type of manifold?

-josh

one nut to turn instead of 4(and 2 of those are a bitch to get to)
no studs to break
no leaks from loosening nuts/studs

basically, cuts install/removal of turbo time to a fraction of what it used to be

[xr4tic]

Damn, if I would have known about the V-band housing months ago, I would have done that instead. Oh well.

V-bands are very easy to disassemble/assemble. I believe they also offer a better seal, since you have a more even distribution around the entire seal, as opposed to 3 or 4 bolts

[mike-2ptzero]

Damn, if I would have known about the V-band housing months ago, I would have done that instead. Oh well.

V-bands are very easy to disassemble/assemble. I believe they also offer a better seal, since you have a more even distribution around the entire seal, as opposed to 3 or 4 bolts

Well it wouldn't have helped seeing that they haven't made any so none of the dealers would have them in stock.

Better seal? My vband on my down pipe always gets loose and starts leaking, so I have to tighten it up all the time. I would hate to see that happen on the manifold side of the turbo.

[onemoremile]

Double nut the clamp and safety wire it. Lock that sucker down.

[Beemer832]

Look what the brown guy brought for me today.. just awaiting the main studs and I will have all of the engine components. If anyone is interested in pricing for a build like this, I have been keeping track of all costs in an excel spread sheet. Might be helpful for those looking to budget a build like this.

http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/58/558/1/11/52/2352111520057957151vqcIyT_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2352111520057957151vqcIyT)

[Beemer832]

I wish I can update this thread title too... Needs to read 1.8 gt3071r... Didn't go the full 2.0 like I anticipated.

-josh

[317ssayzarc]

lame [:P]

[loustylez]

josh go back to your very first post, edit, advanced something or other, then you can change the title.

[onemoremile]

I wish I can update this thread title too... Needs to read 1.8 gt3071r... Didn't go the full 2.0 like I anticipated.

-josh

Used my interweb superpowers. Welcome to the forged 1.8 club.[up]

[Poopie]

Onemoremile, hopefully saturday I can post of pics of my set up. You don't even need v-bands to easily remove a t3 turbined turbo! I have a 4 bolt discharge and 3 bolts can be hit with a 6mm socket and the last one takes only a few seconds with a regular allen wrench. I would be quicker if I used studs and nuts though! 3 of the 4 17mm nuts I have for the turbo to mani connection can be accessed with a medium extention and socket and the 4th is a very easy one on from the top. A open ended wrench and you are done. I can remove my turbo in just a few minutes.

[onemoremile]

I've been following your build as closely as possible. The 3071r is at the top of a very short list.

[Beemer832]

thanks onemore.... now I wont be falsely advertising


-josh

[onemoremile]

Onemoremile, hopefully saturday I can post of pics of my set up. You don't even need v-bands to easily remove a t3 turbined turbo! I have a 4 bolt discharge and 3 bolts can be hit with a 6mm socket and the last one takes only a few seconds with a regular allen wrench. I would be quicker if I used studs and nuts though! 3 of the 4 17mm nuts I have for the turbo to mani connection can be accessed with a medium extention and socket and the 4th is a very easy one on from the top. A open ended wrench and you are done. I can remove my turbo in just a few minutes.

I would love to see pics. The real reason I'd like the Tial housing is the smooth transition, light weight, and thermal properties of the stainless housing.

[Don Supreme]

I've been following your build as closely as possible. The 3071r is at the top of a very short list.

I am baffled as to why you still don't run a big turbo?

You
A. Have a built motor
B. Obviously make good money as an engineer or whatever
C. Race
D. You are interested

Whats the hold up man? Is your car back on the road since the wreck?

[mike-2ptzero]

I am baffled as to why you still don't run a big turbo?

You
A. Have a built motor
B. Obviously make good money as an engineer or whatever
C. Race
D. You are interested

Whats the hold up man? Is your car back on the road since the wreck?

Exactly. He could ship me his car, he could get a great price on the ER setup and even pay "cost" for fueling/tuning from GIAC since ER is still looking for a ndbw car for this setup. Right there would save him a bunch of money for the setup, get custom tuning but would have an added cost of shipping the car. This would be for a GT2871r setup though, not exactly a BAT.

[onemoremile]

I've talked to Fred about it but want a 3071. I was supposed to get a beta of a 2871 a couple years ago but it never materialized. I'd love a big turbo but the car just isn't a high priority right now.

[Poopie]

http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/home.php?cat=1555

these guys are local and are nice guys. call them up

[onemoremile]

Local to who? I've got All Speed Performance (http://www.allspeedperformance.com/home.php) and Bullseye Turbo close to the NW about an hour and Vast and Godspeed (now called the Tuning Factory) about two hours to the SE. There is also a guy in town with a good dyno that has run international rally teams and tuned a friend's 420whp 996TT.

[Beemer832]

Well 5 months and 2 weeks later I finally received the call that the engine is done.

This has been a long and stressful process. I am just glad its over with now. Thanks to everyone who had to listen to me b!tch and those who gave me advice. There is plenty of work still left to be done, but now everything is back in my hands.

I am going to pick the engine up this week, I'll have some pictures up after then.

Still need to do:
Flywheel surface plate
Clutch wear???????
Turbo???
Turbo oil lines and flange gaskets


I have been keeping track of receipts and parts as I have had to purchase them. I think I am a little over 5k deep in parts and labor but I will have to double check tonight. I'll post the spreadsheet later as well.

-josh

[Beemer832]

can someone change my topic to Phase 2? :)

It wont let me edit anything.

-josh

[onemoremile]

can someone change my topic to Phase 2? :)

It wont let me edit anything.

-josh

Happy now? [:p]

[Beemer832]

thanks dude

[317ssayzarc]

whats left josh? list it in the order your gonna tackle it [up]

[Beemer832]

no idea....:)

I want to see the 400+hp kit 034 comes out with. I think im going with the gt3071-wg for use with the t25 APR manifold and internally wastegated down pipe. My flywheel was barely hand tight when the engine was disaseembled so the back side of it is pretty chaffed up. havent decided if I need to replace it or not. The clutch is about 50% worn but I dont have the $$$$ to drop on a new southbend dxd clutch.... I just want my car running again :)

-josh

[dougyfresh]

Glad to see its coming along.

Who built your motor?

[Beemer832]

Simpson Performance Racing in Kansas City Kansas.

[Tifun]

Awesome to see you have progressed. I haven't done anything yet. I had "issues" with the car lol. More of a love hate thing.

[Beemer832]

well shes home, resting in the nice A/C'ed garage. There are a few O-rings left over from the gasket kit I bought from ECS tuning, need to figure out what they are for. might be for some of the coolant flanges on the block. Also I can't seem to find the o-ring that seals the oil cooler block which the oil filter screws onto. I need to figure out whats going on there.

Here are some pics of her still wrapped up. It will be like christmas tonight when I can finally unwrap her.

http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/69/469/4/62/90/2564462900057957151YIYryr_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2564462900057957151YIYryr)
http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/60/660/4/76/52/2427476520057957151nBNFLs_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2427476520057957151nBNFLs)

[loustylez]

haha, wtg josh. glad it all finally came back in 1 piece. i gotta say, i did not have high hopes for this working out. can't wait to ride shotgun. might hit you up this weekend and come check it out.

[Beemer832]

I did the math tonight. Right now I am sitting at $4,200 for parts and labor. The only thing left that I need is a new surface on the LWFW, and the oil lines and oil gaskets for the turbo.

Just so everyone knows, this does not include injectors, ECU (tune), or turbo upgrade YET!

If anyone is interested or would think it would be helpful as a sticky, I can put together and itemized list of parts and tools that were needed for this build. This was a stock stroke build with a 2mm over bore. This gives you just about 1800cc's even.

-josh

[ThirdStrike]

I did the math tonight. Right now I am sitting at $4,200 for parts and labor.
*without reading the entire thread* why dont you spend the money you'd pay on labor on tools so you can DIY?

[mike-2ptzero]

This was a stock stroke build with a 2mm over bore. This gives you just about 1800cc's even.

-josh

How did you get 1800cc even?

83mm x 86.4mm stroke = 1870cc.

[Beemer832]

How did you get 1800cc even?

83mm x 86.4mm stroke = 1870cc.

thats close :) I did the math a few months ago.... I just remember a stock bore isnt 1800cc's...... Thanks for the correction

[Beemer832]

*without reading the entire thread* why dont you spend the money you'd pay on labor on tools so you can DIY?

1. I didn't have the time
2. I don't have the know how when it comes to engine building
3. I wasn't comfortable dropping 3k into parts and tools for it to blow up :)
4. It was easier (in some respects)
5. It came out better then I could have ever done, at least the first time

[Beemer832]

ill try this post first to see if anyone checks it :)

I need a picture of the front of the engine on a AEB block behind the front crank gear. I was bolting the cover on tonight and noticed the bolt holding this flange on behind the crank gear is rubbing against the edge of the timing belt. I know this is NOT correct and the manual doesn't go into any detail here. These bolts don't look right... any and all help is greatly appreciated.

-josh

[Bic-Ball]

like this?
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/5690/crankbm5.jpg

[Beemer832]

yes, i am talking about the 5 bolts which i think are 10mm heads. The top one sits directly above the crank puller. The bolt that is rubbing on the belt is the middle bolt on the right. can you get me specs on those bolts? Are they support to be allen or hex? Washers? how long?

thanks
josh

[xr4tic]

should just be regular 10mm hex bolts. There should be no rubbing.

I would also put a little sealant on the bolts, a couple of them thread into the crankcase, oil can leak through them

[Beemer832]

should just be regular 10mm hex bolts. There should be no rubbing.

I would also put a little sealant on the bolts, a couple of them thread into the crankcase, oil can leak through them

i just ordered the bolt from audi, it was like $.30 or something. I dont think the bolts in there are correct, maybe who knows. I will know tomorrow when I go pick up the bolt.

Just an update on this project:
ordered the oil return line from ATP tonight
still searching on the flywheel steel liner piece. I need to replace this but if I have to I can see about getting it re-surfaced but would really rather not.
Once the bolt issue near the timing belt is fixed I can the timing belt covers put on and get the A/C bolted back up. The flywheel is holding me up from getting the engine installed back into the car.

I am going to shoot for an install time within the next two weeks and it should be running again by then.

-josh

[317ssayzarc]

I am going to shoot for an install time within the next two weeks and it should be running again by then.

-josh

dont say that lol, dont shoot for a time, youll just end up missing it [>_<]

been there only 20 times [rolleyes][headbang]

[Beemer832]

yea so i already jinxed myself.... need to order a new flywheel.... we will see how long that takes to come up with the cash..

good news is, exhaust and intake manifolds are on, turbo is bolted up. orderd the oil return line from ATP and the oil gaskets for the flanges.

Waiting on the flywheel now and I think thats it...

-josh

[mike-2ptzero]

Well I hope it doesn't take as long to get that oil drain line from them like it did a oil/coolant line kit that I had ordered from them. That kit ended up just being a rubber hose and some fittings, so I sent it back and am still waiting for my refund now 2-3 months later.[:(]

[Beemer832]

believe it or not, its already been shipped. UPS is taking 4 days to get it to me though, and thats not including the weekend. They sure know how to take advantage of ground shipping..

-josh

[dougyfresh]

dont say that lol, dont shoot for a time, youll just end up missing it [>_<]

been there only 20 times [rolleyes][headbang]

Yeah. I have a target timeframe too but without a turbo that timeframe is shot. I'll have the whole car back together by then but no turbo which means no start engine. [:/]

[317ssayzarc]

you makey goal, the goal you makey will pawnz you... it beez the way of life [:D]

[Beemer832]

Update 6-24

Got a hold of Aasco flywheels directly and spoke with a tech. I find out the flywheel I have is 9 years old and the company is no longer in business. Lucky for me, the flywheel is too beat up to install again and may just end ruining the engine. So I order a new flywheel at a price that should be illegal. I can't find a used LWFW for the price I paid for a new one. heheheheh

Ordered the return oil line and gaskets from ATP, should be here tomorrow.

Exhaust manifold and turbo are bolted up. Feed line is intalled. Intake mainfold is installed with new south performance gasket.. should be interesting to see how that holds up.

Water pump, viscious fan, and that whole supporting bracket is installed on drive side. Timing belt cover and harmonic balancer are on.

Just waiting for flywheel and then clutch, and starter can go on.

Engine is going in Saturday if all of the pieces come in. I will hopefully get pictures of the engine going in and then finally installed, might even get a chance to get it running saturday, if not for sure Sunday.

The time has finally come, I hope she breathes fire!!(out the exhaust.......)

-josh

[317ssayzarc]

there you go with those predictions again [>_<]

i wish you the best josh [up]

[Beemer832]

fvck sh!t c0ck wh0re b@lls....... son of a b!tch..... I hate you Jake!! LOL

I find out one of the holes in the crank to attach the flywheel is stripped. Going to bring the engine down to get that helicoiled together. Need to order a clutch now also. So this has officially cost me $6k + fvcking Audis
-josh

[pipe7284]

sorry to hear that buddy.

[317ssayzarc]

would be the same with any project, from honda to vw/audi to mitsubishi

[Beemer832]

damn dude, this sucks.... Next time I will think twice about doing a build like this. This really has turned into if it can break or go wrong, it will....

Good luck to all of you looking to do an engine build. Make sure you have DEEP pockets, patience, and a lot of beer!!!!

-josh

[Beemer832]

if someone can PLEASE edit the title to Phase 3...:)

Engine went in Saturday AM. Took me about 12 hours start to finish with only ONE trip to the hardware store. Engine started very easily and everything sounds great. The engine is smoking like a bitch because of the assembly oil in the cylinders but its slowly getting better. I have an exhaust leak somewhere in the turbo connections that I need to locate, but everything else sounds great. The injectors are really loud but I haven't heard this car run in 10 months so I can't compare.

Thanks for everyone for helping me get parts, advice, and pictures to figure out what I need to do. Without this forum i'd be SOL.... Taking the car for its maiden voyage. I will be packing a tool box, coolant and oil and hoping for the best!!

-josh

[Poopie]

good luck man!

[317ssayzarc]

good luck josh, it been a long time coming! be sure to take the items you mentioned with you on the first drive, and make sure to log it as well

[Beemer832]

mmmm really gonna be hard to do any logging since i dont have vag com. Car runs great at idle and up to 3-4k...... being very easy with it until i get the clutch and engine broke in. Tune and turbo have not changed, and i did NOT have one damn CEL i could not believe it!!!

-josh

pics will be posted in a minute. I have a video so i need to get those uploaded to.... check back in a bit..

[Beemer832]

pictures... they are on webshots, to lazy to host them on AZ or somewhere else..

http://community.webshots.com/album/564506098nBUeWV?vhost=community

first start up video...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5715158204097239737&hl=en

[djwimbo]

"It sounds like a bloody monster"

Good job. Your car must have been rather clean when you took it apart b/c all but one of the guys helping you out were wearing white.

[317ssayzarc]

nice man, get a wideband on it asap tho... trust me on that one

[mike-2ptzero]

nice man, get a wideband on it asap tho... trust me on that one

Yes and make sure you dont misplace it when it counts the most.[;)]

[djwimbo]

I take it both of you learned that one the hard way?

[Beemer832]

had to replace the coolant line... getting the correct size tommorrow.

finally blew off the intake manifold silicone hose... what an awesome sound but the car lost power like crazy until i finally pulled over. luckily i had a flashlight and complete tool kit in the trunk to get that shit back on asap.

airbox is a bit melted from not being mounted correctly and sitting ontop of the turbo :)

going to do some logging tomorrow with vagcom and looking into the wideband asap.

more info to come..

-josh

[TQMB5]

what size coolant line do you have?

[pipe7284]

post a pic of the engine compartment, i wanna se how it looks.

[Beemer832]

what size coolant line do you have?

umm i think its 5/16" inside diameter and the hose i was buying was 5/16 outside diameter. this is the hose that runs along the front of the engine. there are two plastic tabs ont he timing belt cover that hold this line up.



post a pic of the engine compartment, i wanna se how it looks.

I dont actually have a good pictures... have to get one tonight..

-josh

[loustylez]

so jealous. also, pix of engine bay for these guys. it looks good in person i must say.

i'm so happy this car is up and running again. makes me really really miss my audi (sold my 2.8 for a 91 525i) but not that i'm unhappy with my decision at all. at least i still get to be around a nice one ;)

[Beemer832]

ahh so i am at like 600 miles and the smoking got better under load but not at idle so i am pretty confident now its the rings. a tech from pro seal some smoke is normal but we are talking about enough smoke to kill a small town so this cant be right.

engine dude thinks some of this "special"oil he got for me might help the problem so we will see. going to put another 200 miles on it and see what happens. if its sitll smoking. engine is coming back out of the car and im putting OEM style rings back in and calling it quits.

also when the engine comes out i am going to have the crank balanced. he never balanced it because he didnt think it was necessary but i am wondering if the unbalanced crank is causing the vibrations that i have now with track density mounts.

at least im getting good at this in and out of the engine :)

ill let everyone know what i find out after this weekend
-josh

[Don Supreme]

Track density mounts is probably the source of the vibration issue.

[mike-2ptzero]

Track density mounts is probably the source of the vibration issue.

The mounts wont be the cause of the vibration but sure wont help if there is any vibration coming from an unbalanced engine.

[onemoremile]

Sounds like your engine dude needs a smack in the head with a clue by four.

Always balance components given the chance. Even at stock power levels it helps reduce the harmonics that are responsible for virtually all engine wear. At high power levels it becomes much more important.

[Nebone]

Call MJMAutohaus to find out when they will get more OEM piston rings in. They have a real good price for the full kit. Piston Rings (http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=6169_6170_6186_6188_6726_89 83&info=Mahle_058198151BBR_Piston_Ring_Set_OEM&products_id=2203)

[Beemer832]

the dude building the engine is buying the piston rings but I WILL be making sure they are the correct ones. additionally i really want someone to look at the head and make sure it wasnt fucked up either. i am not paying him another dime so... we shall see

-josh

[20vpower]

stock airbox ftw [up]

[Beemer832]

well another sad update.. I am joining the engine swap crew now.. engine is coming back out. pretty sure the rings I am running are way to hard and are never going to seat. going to swap in for molly (spelling) rings which are much softer. still not 100% sure if the heads are blowing oil too but the rings are definitely showing blow by in all 4 cylinders.

this will probably turn into another 3-4 month of sitting on my ass. good excuse to start sourcing the gt30 kit.....

-josh

[AudiA4_20T]

well, this is what happens when you dont spend the money for a good builder...

mine is apart for the second time also. Good luck man

[Beemer832]

yea indeed... live and learn though.... if i had the tools and knew what i was going, this would have gotten done right the first time.

-josh

[Nebone]

yea indeed... live and learn though.... if i had the tools and knew what i was going, this would have gotten done right the first time.

-josh

3 months? Get it right this time. [up]

[Beemer832]

well last time it was like 6 months in the works. this time will not take as long otherwise legal action will occur and he can buy me an 034 2.0 bolt in engine :)

-josh

[317ssayzarc]

well last time it was like 6 months in the works. this time will not take as long otherwise legal action will occur and he can buy me an 034 2.0 bolt in engine :)

-josh

haha NICE [evilsmile]

[Nebone]

Forget 3 months, drive to RI, build in one weekend.

[Beemer832]

i would if i could. 1200 miles on a semi good engine would require a 55 gallon drum of 20w50 oil being continuously siphoned into the engine... :) guess I could use a roof rack now to hold that drum...

-josh

[Nebone]

Gravity feed FTW!

I used to have a 626 which threw up automatic trans fluid out this vent valve. I ran a hose from that valve to that fed into the dipstick tube which made it recilculate.

Innnovation.

If would be funny when you got here and that 1200 miles would seat the rings correctly.

[Beemer832]

If would be funny when you got here and that 1200 miles would seat the rings correctly.

It shouldn't take 2400 miles to seat a set of rings though... or maybe I am making wrongful assumptions.

That is innovation for the record.. good thinking.

Seriously it doesn't burn it that bad, but bad enough to have to carry oil with me all the time. o and when i stop at a light forget it, might as well be driving a honda civic with a fart can on the back that has 450,000 miles on it...

but it sure does pull hard in 2nd and 3rd gear :) ahhhh 24 psi.. gonna miss that feeling for a few weeks...


-josh

[mike-2ptzero]

It shouldn't take 2400 miles to seat a set of rings though... or maybe I am making wrongful assumptions.

That is innovation for the record.. good thinking.

Seriously it doesn't burn it that bad, but bad enough to have to carry oil with me all the time. o and when i stop at a light forget it, might as well be driving a honda civic with a fart can on the back that has 450,000 miles on it...

but it sure does pull hard in 2nd and 3rd gear :) ahhhh 24 psi.. gonna miss that feeling for a few weeks...


-josh


It doesn't take much time to seat the rings if done right. 034 does it right on their dyno and takes about 1 hr.

[onemoremile]

For what it's worth, you can break in a race engine in 10 minutes. 3 to warm up and check for leaks and funny noises, 1 for casual driving varying the rpm at a light load, 1 to rip off a few 2nd or 3rd gear pulls, 5 minutes of low load driving and cool down. I've seen guys break in a brand new engine and new brake pads at the same time in one 20 minute track session. A lot of race engines tend to be built a thou or two looser and aren't expected to run a full season but many are built tight and still done this way.

Like every engine Porsche makes. They run a dyno program that warms them up, varies the revs, and pegs the limiter on a few loaded pulls before cooling back down. After this procedure they know they don't have to worry how the engine is broken in by it's owner. You can buy a 911 turbo for your wife to neglect or take it straight to a track without changing the oil. Quality is controlling your liabilities.

VW and Audi engines may be broken in this way but it seems to expensive for such high levels of production. They still need to do a lot of quality checks on each one and running it is the easiest way to do that. Since it seems the Porsche takeover of VW/Audi is imminent maybe they'll all be built like endurance race engines someday.

[Nebone]

What about brake pads and clutches? Each new car you buy can drive off the lot chirping tires and braking hard. Then you buy aftermarket pads and clutches and you have to baby it for miles and miles.

Each car, VW or Porsche is driven once it comes off a production line to check for abnormal suspension sound, braking etc. Thats the final mechanical quality control.

[317ssayzarc]

it takes under 2 miles to break in the rings according to my romping around the hotel lot and 2 track runs at WF... compression was perfect and there never was any smoke from the exhaust [up]

[Beemer832]

it takes under 2 miles to break in the rings according to my romping around the hotel lot and 2 track runs at WF... compression was perfect and there never was any smoke from the exhaust [up]

yea yea yea yea yea...lol

well i installed an automatic bug screen.. and on a good day i can even create a smoke screen. its the perfect tool from running from the cops, unless I loose compression and/or drop a rod :)

-josh

[Beemer832]

any updates on a gt30 turbo kit from 034? im sick of this little turbo crap....

-josh

[317ssayzarc]

buy my apr 3071 setup [:D]

[Beemer832]

buy my apr 3071 setup [:D]

details please...:) i thought u mentioned i was already sold??.....

-josh

[317ssayzarc]

eh, people back out too much... im selling the lines, manifold, downpipe, turbo (with less than 300 miles on it), and turbo inlet for the tapp 4" maf... let me know if you are interested [;)]

[onemoremile]

What about brake pads and clutches? Each new car you buy can drive off the lot chirping tires and braking hard. Then you buy aftermarket pads and clutches and you have to baby it for miles and miles.

Each car, VW or Porsche is driven once it comes off a production line to check for abnormal suspension sound, braking etc. Thats the final mechanical quality control.

Pads are bedded during the factory test lap, clutches are machined to such tight tolerances that it isn't a problem. I've been on the Honda laps. It is a loop that goes up and down hills, crazy bumps to test for creeks and squeaks, the RFI bombardment room, and the insane high pressure wash room that looks for leaks. One of the coolest things they have is an alignment jig that looks like a cross between a four wheel dyno and an oil change bay at Jiffy Lube. The cars or minivans roll onto the roller which spin the four wheels measuring them at the same time. Due to the precision used to assemble the car most don't even need to be touched. The final alignment is part of the dealership's checklist routine.

[mike-2ptzero]

What about brake pads and clutches? Each new car you buy can drive off the lot chirping tires and braking hard. Then you buy aftermarket pads and clutches and you have to baby it for miles and miles.

Each car, VW or Porsche is driven once it comes off a production line to check for abnormal suspension sound, braking etc. Thats the final mechanical quality control.

Only clutch that really needs a good break in is one that uses kevlar. My last few high performance clutch disks that I have put in my car needed zero break-in. Even the first clutch I put in my car back in 2001 had no more then 50 miles of break-in and it had kevlar on one side of the disk, that was the R&D clutch from Juan and then he started up Werks Of Art to sell the clutch kits.


People baby a new clutch because thats what people tell them to do.

[Beemer832]

ahhhhh more bad news.... this dude has got me by the balls... basically told me today he is closing up shop effective sept 1st. i figured out that i made the check to the company and not to him personally so therefore, if he shuts down then he THINKS i cant do anything about it. he offered to still take the engine and replace the rings. but i am pretty sure i will have him order the rings and do it myself. im done dicking around with this guy.

once the engine comes apart, i will check for other issues, have it looked it by a professional with credentials and then take him to small claims court.

word of advice, if the engine builder touches Ford engines, find someone else

:)

I will be happy to tackle this myself anyways. It will be a good learning experience and I will get things done on my schedule no one elses. Anyone in the Kansas City area or around that wants to help is more then welcome too... plenty of shit to do. Might be taking the engine out this weekend depending on if we drink through a keg tomm night or not...

-josh

[317ssayzarc]

drive to RI [:D]

[quattro16]

Just do it yourself. Jake can walk you through it. I myself am tired of dicking around with other shops.

[onemoremile]

Rings are really easy to do but can be tedious. Get some local beer and good music and it isn't so bad. I took pics of the process if you need them.

[Beemer832]

thanks guys. couldnt do it without AZ!!! engine is hopefully coming out this weekend. have to call the dbag tomm to get some decent rings... like i said.. anyone who wants to come out to the good ole kc mo ur more then welcome to. good local beer, bbq, and we can work on the women.. actually i need to post some pictures of that weekend...........18 young and fresh!!!! lol

-josh

[Nebone]

You better post pictures! I post pictures of our weekends haha; but with no women :(. Mine would rather eat dirt than hang around and watch engine builds.

Looks like you and Jake will be phone buddies for a while. It's actually his birthday today, so make nice.

[Beemer832]

haha those pictures won't fly in "this" forum. Happy bday Jake!!! i am sure u will be hearing from me sooner or later. just have to get those rings ordered and find someone to cross etch the cylinder walls and make sure the head and block are perfectly flat. I think I am going to balance the crank while its out also because Mr. Dbag said it didnt need to be done.... makes me mad knowing that i dealt with this guy for so long.

-josh

[Nebone]

Ohh no no no. You're now obligated to send me a PM with the link at the least since you mentioned it :)

We all deal with people we don't want to deal with sometimes.

[mike-2ptzero]

haha those pictures won't fly in "this" forum. Happy bday Jake!!! i am sure u will be hearing from me sooner or later. just have to get those rings ordered and find someone to cross etch the cylinder walls and make sure the head and block are perfectly flat. I think I am going to balance the crank while its out also because Mr. Dbag said it didnt need to be done.... makes me mad knowing that i dealt with this guy for so long.

-josh

His was yesterday, mine is today.


BTW was it his sweet 16 yesterday? [;)]

[Beemer832]

His was yesterday, mine is today.


BTW was it his sweet 16 yesterday? [;)]

wow that wasn't a low blow or anything.... lol

happy bday to you to Mike.

damn all this happy bday BS makes me sick!!! lol ahh fvck it, i'll be drinking on behalf of eveyones birthday tonight....

-josh

[317ssayzarc]

hahaha... its 19 asshole!

[mike-2ptzero]

wow that wasn't a low blow or anything.... lol

happy bday to you to Mike.

damn all this happy bday BS makes me sick!!! lol ahh fvck it, i'll be drinking on behalf of eveyones birthday tonight....

-josh

LOL. Jake knows I am always playing, we talk on the phone all the time. Plus everyone knows its better to look way younger then your real age, I know I do.[:D]

Thanks

[20vpower]

LOL. Jake knows I am always playing, we talk on the phone all the time. Plus everyone knows its better to look way younger then your real age, I know I do.[:D]

Thanks

i think that applies to when your over 21. [:D]

[onemoremile]

His was yesterday, mine is today.


BTW was it his sweet 16 yesterday? [;)]



Happy birthday old man! If he was 16 you would be old enough to be his dad. [:p]

[mike-2ptzero]

Happy birthday old man! If he was 16 you would be old enough to be his dad. [:p]

LOL, I am still old enough to be his dad. Hell he could be 25 and I would still be old enough to be his dad. My sister that is 3 years younger then me has a son that is his age.

I might be old but not nearly as old as Fred.[>_<]

Thanks.

[fred2ka4]

I might be old but not nearly as old as Fred.[>_<]

Thanks.

I may be older by a whole 16 days but I look a lot better ....... [>_<] [rolleyes]

[Beemer832]

another sad and depressing update..
so when this "master engine builder" decided that he knew more about the piston rings then the manufacturer you have a slight problem. Ring manufacturer suggests running a 220-280 grit finish on the cylinder walls for chrome face top rings.

Without knowing this already I asked the guy what his process was, his answer was soemwhat like this. "well i use the same process i do for all of my 4 valve ford racing motors, corvette guys, and other big block engines...... 133 rough, followed by 320-340, followed by 625, and then about 8 strokes of 800-820"

So basically I have chrome faced rings trying to break into a smooth as glass surface. for some reason I don't think thats going to work :)

So I am trying to get the head off this weekend and get that disassembled to make sure the valve guide seals were replaced correctly. Additionally, I need to figure out how the hell to rough up the cylinder walls and get a new set of rings installed to stop the ridiculous blow by......

-happy camper

[onemoremile]

Big blocks have big rings with much larger circumference. Whole different animal. The RDI 427 small block has 4.125" bore and we've got 3.25" bore. They make 75hp per 750cc cylinder. We can make twice that in a 450-500cc. Rings make it happen.

So this guy went out of business?

[onemoremile]

I may be older by a whole 16 days but I look a lot better ....... [>_<] [rolleyes]

You guys are totally going to land the Show and Go! cover of AARP magazine someday. [;)]

[Beemer832]

Big blocks have big rings with much larger circumference. Whole different animal. The RDI 427 small block has 4.125" bore and we've got 3.25" bore. They make 75hp per 750cc cylinder. We can make twice that in a 450-500cc. Rings make it happen.

So this guy went out of business?

i wish. his story changed again. he isn't shutting up shop like he said, just cutting down on hours because business is slow this time of year.....

i can't wait to get this engine disassembled, I want to see what else i find that has been mickey moused....maybe ill be lucky and it will be nice and clean.....


-josh

[317ssayzarc]

i have a 400 grit hone if you need one...

[Beemer832]

finally, the smoking issue has cleared up. i pulled the intake manifold off and checked the intake valves. looked fairly clean, might have had one valve stem seal leaking just slightly. pulled the exaust manifold off and 7 out of the 8 exhaust valves were literally pumping oil hardcore. this is by the far the cause of the smoking/oil consumption issue.

the head has been removed and is headed to a reputable cylinder head shop in town to disassemble, clean, and fix at no cost to me. the guy who built the engine is actually picking up the tab.

additionally, a local enthusiast, and reputable mechanic has offered to port and polish the heads as well as install new 034 valve springs that are stiffer then OEM and help to reduce valve float. I believe i will be going this route, depending on how deep my pockets can go.

once the head goes back in, it will be time to get back on the street to burn some rubber and hopefully no more oil :)

PS can someone move this thread into the new project folder... i feel left out :/....

thanks
josh

[317ssayzarc]

hoooorr-fucking-rrraayyy!!!!!!!!!!! :D

[Don Supreme]

nice...

[sean1.8t]

upgrade the springs while the head is apart now. save money and do it right the first time..

but if money is tight. i would upgrade your exhaust valves at the very least.

i would rather have a low revving motor with reliable valves, than a high revving time bomb

[Beemer832]

thanks for the input sean. I already put incolnel exhaust valves in recommended by Mike. I am going to have the head ported and polished now, i think.. and if I do that, i will have the valve springs tested for compression rate? or whatever they rate them for. if everything turns out OK, i will more then likely put the OEM springs in for now since money is tight.

if they turn out to be a bit soft, i will throw a set of the 034 springs in. Can someone get me a price on those, of course with the badass AZ discount :)

-josh

[317ssayzarc]

thanks for the input sean. I already put incolnel exhaust valves in recommended by Mike. I am going to have the head ported and polished now, i think.. and if I do that, i will have the valve springs tested for compression rate? or whatever they rate them for. if everything turns out OK, i will more then likely put the OEM springs in for now since money is tight.

if they turn out to be a bit soft, i will throw a set of the 034 springs in. Can someone get me a price on those, of course with the badass AZ discount :)

-josh

Come on Josh... Your gonna wanna rev over 7500 [>_>]

[Beemer832]

Engine has finally come apart AGAIN.

intake and exhaust valves both have noticeable oil buildup on 12-14 out of the 20 valves. The head needs to be disassembled again, cleaned and all the valve to valve guide clearances checked. I am going to be getting some Viton material valve guide seals which are suppose to help with high crankcase pressure and prevent blow by on the seals.

The pistons and rings look shockingly good. There is NO blow by on any of the pistons and the rings were installed correctly. At this point the pistons and rings are going to be retained and used again as this is not the problem. There is some scoring on the left and right side of the cylinder walls, someone referred to this as piston slapping, so i am going to be checking the piston to cylinder wall clearances to ensure the engine is not over-bored for the application.

The top middle (#3) bearing had some scoring or looks more like over heated surface so i need to get these clearances measured as well.

Other then that, everything looks good. i fucked up one of the splines on the crank gear while trying to remove it. YES NEXT TIME I WILL BREAK THE SEAL ON THIS BOLT BEFORE THE CRANK IS REMOVED :) So I will need to replace this gear.

I will be tapping the valve cover as well for well needed head ventilation and running that and the crank breather to a catch can.

I should have some more info on the head and crank later next week.

Thanks again for all the help guys!
-josh

[317ssayzarc]

Word man word...

You should do springs, I have a new option for you [;)]

If you took the rings out, they moved a bit... I would re-ring and re-hone, which is no biggie but I do not suggest reinstalling those rings... A buddy of mine installed his rings back into his motor when he did rods, since his compression was great, but afterwards was having performance problems... Compression was shit

Please just do new rings, they are NOT expensive...

[Beemer832]

i am not sure what I will do to the head yet, if anything. have to see what my rebuild #2 budget will look like.

I would like to port the heads and put high tension springs but it all depends on the $$$$$$$$$$$$

and i also only took the rings off one of the pistons, other three are still installed. Everything will be checked and regapped before installation. Nothing will go unturned.

-josh

[317ssayzarc]

i am not sure what I will do to the head yet, if anything. have to see what my rebuild #2 budget will look like.

I would like to port the heads and put high tension springs but it all depends on the $$$$$$$$$$$$

and i also only took the rings off one of the pistons, other three are still installed. Everything will be checked and regapped before installation. Nothing will go unturned.

-josh

Well the ring has worn to the bore, and you cannot get the rings rotated to exactly where they were before, and that's where the problem is. Your choice, but remember when you didn't listen last time? [>_<]

[Beemer832]

ahh this is a good point. good call Jake. BUT the rings will rotate around the piston in time so they should wear "evenly" around the bore. Or maybe i am blowing smoke up my own ass.....

-josh

[317ssayzarc]

ahh this is a good point. good call Jake. BUT the rings will rotate around the piston in time so they should wear "evenly" around the bore. Or maybe i am blowing smoke up my own ass.....

-josh

They wont really rotate once they are in... That's why you set the gaps 120* apart when installing... My buddy's rings and any of the rings I can remember specifically looking at the ring orientation when removing, they have all still had that 120* seperation so idk how much they really move...

Like I said, he tried to install the rings like they came out, and still went from perfect compression to little... After I rebuilt the motor and reringed it, it was back to this again [:D] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ani_rrIAeE0

[Beemer832]

okay okay okaty.. lol u kno more about this then me and we both know how stubborn i am lol

hey those custom pistons i had fabbed up are actually pretty sweet. looks like they did a good job on them. nice CNC'ed piece.... no issues with the pistons thus far

-josh

[317ssayzarc]

okay okay okaty.. lol u kno more about this then me and we both know how stubborn i am lol

hey those custom pistons i had fabbed up are actually pretty sweet. looks like they did a good job on them. nice CNC'ed piece.... no issues with the pistons thus far

-josh

Can I have pics PLEASE!!! Can you get the skirt, crown, ring lands, and and underside shot please? Very interested [cool]

[Beemer832]

yea will do tonight when i get home. they arent cleaned up yet but its better then nothing.

[onemoremile]

PS can someone move this thread into the new project folder... i feel left out :/....

thanks
josh



Feel more special now? [:p]

[Beemer832]

haha i was just looking for this post and i coudltn find it!! thanks dude!!

Now i am part of the groupies!!

-josh

[onemoremile]

haha i was just looking for this post and i coudltn find it!! thanks dude!!

Now i am part of the groupies!!

-josh

You were a groupie. You are now part of the band.

[Beemer832]

anyone know of a good place to find CHEAP or CHEAPER ARP or raceware head studs for the 20v need to be 11mm. 034 has the 10mm for the AWM engines but not the 11mm yet...

-josh

[317ssayzarc]

11mm motors have been left out on the ARP bolts, they have been coming "soon" for a while now...

Raceware studs are $$$

That's why I use stock head bolts, they have been taken to over 700chp [up]

[Beemer832]

i know its just a pain to replace them everytime the head comes off. I am going on my third set now. and everywhere ive looked they are ALWAYS torque to yield bolts, one time use.

for the money ive spent on head bolts i could have almost bought a set of ARP studs. >:(

Jake, ill get those pics for you tonight, for got about it last night.

found out why one of the main bearing shells is fucked, he didnt measure the clearances correctly on the thrust washers.... so there goes another set of bearings....

i am going to own this guy after im done this is total BS

-josh

[Beemer832]

what about flywheel bolts? where do you get these at? i think they are 10mm 1.0 thread pitch about 2in long? I would imagine these are hardened bolts as they are torque to yield as well.

also how important is it to balance the crank? i have a shop to do it for $175 but if i dont have to do it then ill save the $$

-josh

[pac1085]

You want to get the entire rotating assembley balanced...

crank, crank gear/pulley & bolts , flywheel&bolts, rods, pistons, rings, wristpins, , circlips and rod bearings are needed for a completely balancing.

I would not put an unbalanced motor in my car...


as far as flywheel bolts, if you're using stock flywheel buy them from the dealer, or if you're using an aftermarket flywheel ask them to send you new bolts.

[Beemer832]

top ring end gap should have been "0.021 and I measured them at around "0.031 so the top rings were gapped wayyyy too much.

Going to have the piston and bores measured for piston to wall clearnace.

also need to have the main bearings measured for clearance and have the crank assembly balanced.

Will need at least a new ring set at this point, still hoping for the best on this bore.

-josh

[Beemer832]

well had the block and pistons measured for piston to cyl wall clearance............

piston manufacturer needs only 0.004" clearance (4 thousandths) after I had a machinist measure these correctly, the clearance is 0.009".. yea you do the math.

So at this point the block is crap, looking for a local used engine now, hopefully a pick and go place that won't know what i am taking :)

already left a nice message for the machine shop who did the work for me. he will be paying for a new block, a new set of rings, and a shop to bore it correctly.... he can do it the easy way or the legal way, either or he can decide
[evilmad]

this would definitely explain the oil consumption, the guy i had measure everything for me suggested that the piston could have actually moved or tilted enough to let oil pass by on the downward stroke.... anyways enough of that shit tonight....

whatever enough of this bullshit for tonight.... be back on here after the 9mm cools off........[up]

[317ssayzarc]

Wtf... Dude, ugh, well I just don't know what to say or where to start...

[Side-Step]

Are you running the factory PCV setup? If so, please check the valve. I was consuming oil and that was the issue. Have since installed a catch can and bought the 034 adapter for the AEB motor to run -AN fittings and rid the engine bay of the OEM piping.

[Beemer832]

Are you running the factory PCV setup? If so, please check the valve. I was consuming oil and that was the issue. Have since installed a catch can and bought the 034 adapter for the AEB motor to run -AN fittings and rid the engine bay of the OEM piping.

yea tried all this. the piston clearance is WAYYYY to much, double waht the piston manufacturer's spec. this is definitely the cause of the issue, without doubt.

i will be looking at a few junk yards this weekend seeing if i can find an audi block. until then i am dead in the water......

if anyone knows of a aeb longblock for CHEAP and i mean cheap let me know

-josh

[Don Supreme]

longblock or short block?

Sounds like you need a short block.

[Beemer832]

well this is true, but I want a spare AEB head. going to throw different springs in it and will have it ported and polished....

thanks for the look out though

-josh

[317ssayzarc]

I have a spare 058 block at my shop but shippings a whore...

[Beemer832]

yea thats kinda what i am thinking. i know you have one jake, what do you want for it just so i know.. found a local car for cheap, gonna go check it out.

-josh

[AudiA4_20T]

I have a spare 058 block at my shop but shippings a whore...

Shouldnt be more than $50, UPS does everything for you

Beemer, same thing happened to me dude [headbang].... It really sux, I would raise hell at the machine shop

[Beemer832]

machine shop is buying me a block, clean it, bore it and hone it to my specs....and then a set of piston rings are coming the end of this week. going with standard gapped top ring.

on a good note, i have a block for sale for someone going to 83.5 mm :)

-josh