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GetBoosted84
09-25-2007, 08:07 PM
Hi everyone.

Let me start out by letting you guys know that I have a 2001.5 A4 1.8TQM that I am upgrading the turbo in. With that said, I have searching around to make sure I am going down the right path before I put all my parts on. So my question is, what am I missing or do I need to change about the setup below in order to make it work as it should with the hammer file?

I am getting conflicting stories from the giac rep and their site so I wanted to run it by the community to see if I need/should change my setup.

My Setup:
* Giac Hammer File
* K&N Panel Air Filter
* Forge 007 Black Diverter Valve
* EVOMS Front Mount Intercooler
* K04-015 Turbo
* 380-386 CC 225 TT Injectors
* 225 TT 3inch OD MAF with real TT sensor not Golf Jetta (Part number: 06A906461EX)
* ATP Turbo Manifold (Part # ATP-VVW-156)
* LaBree High Flow Catalytic Converter
* ModShack Boost Machine
* Stock 4 bar FPR

Recommended Setup from Giac Rep:
* GIAC FXK04/"Hammer" programming (via Jeff Moss)
* Siemens 380cc injectors
* TT 225 MAF
* KKK K04-15
* Stock 4 bar FPR
* Carbonio intake Gen. 1
* Eurocode Testpipe
* Techtonics Tuning Downpipe
* Greddy G2 downpipe back exhaust
* Greddy FMIC
* IOTA Port and Polished Exhaust Manifold
* IOTA Port and Polished Throttle Body
* TurboXS BPV
* NGK BKR7EIX spark plugs

Recommended Setup from GiacUsa.com (http://www.giacusa.com/programs.php?mpid=170):
* 380 cc injectors (real S3/225TT 380 or Deka 1 Siemens 380, Genesis 380)
* 225 TT 3inch OD MAF with real TT sensor not golf jetta (Part number: 06A906461EX)
* Upgraded intercooler with less than 2 psi boost drop and IATs less than 50 deg. C. sustained.
* K04-1 or E05 turbo
* F - N75 valve works best
* Intake: long tube CAIs or stock air boxes, or short if velocity stacked properly.
* Green Coolant temp sensor.
* 2.5-3.0 inch. turbo back exhaust with a quality CAT.
* 104 octane for best performance in Race mode. 100 Octane performs well if not blended with pump fuel.
* Turbo inlet hose to prevent collapse if a lot of power is attained.

Thanks in Advance!

Chris

speedydragon
09-25-2007, 09:02 PM
don't really need a carbonio to run the k04, but it's up to you. i'd ge with the v2 carbonio cuz it looks better ^.^

biketsai
09-25-2007, 09:34 PM
im sure a homemade fmic would do fine.
i dont even think it needs one right?

audiFUEGO
09-25-2007, 09:35 PM
I would also get the 3" ATP TIP .... anyone know the part number? theres like a million tip's on that site

b5a4lover
09-25-2007, 09:41 PM
im sure a homemade fmic would do fine.
i dont even think it needs one right?

hammer file does, regular file doesn't

Poopie
09-25-2007, 10:37 PM
your set up is fine. Do you have an exhaust?

beejohn
09-26-2007, 12:04 AM
I would also get the 3" ATP TIP .... anyone know the part number? theres like a million tip's on that site

skip on the atp TIP, get a neuspeed TIP.
i'd remove that k&n panel filter... some claim it ruins the MAF. better safe than sorry.

docurley
09-26-2007, 03:05 AM
This may be of intrest to you.

Link (http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=3438922)

GetBoosted84
09-26-2007, 04:12 AM
your set up is fine. Do you have an exhaust?

I am currently running with the stock exhaust until I find a good enough deal on a borla or milltek catback one. I bought the high flow cat to supplement the exhaust in the interim.


skip on the atp TIP, get a neuspeed TIP.
i'd remove that k&n panel filter... some claim it ruins the MAF. better safe than sorry.

Really think I should skip on the K&N? Would the stock mayle filter be a better choice? Also I am currently looking for a turbo inlet pipe that is more diesel than stock I just wasn't sure if that was a requirement or not. I am guessing it is?


This may be of intrest to you.

Link (http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=3438922)

Thank you for the link!

mike-2ptzero
09-26-2007, 06:07 AM
Why go with the ATP manifold? Boost factory(issam) also sells one that is better quality or just stick with the OEM and have it ported out.

ChescoS6
09-26-2007, 06:27 AM
Why go with the ATP manifold? Boost factory(issam) also sells one that is better quality or just stick with the OEM and have it ported out.


I was looking at the ATP also but the one on the Boost Factory website IS the ATP manifold isn't it?

http://boostfactory.net/product_info.php?cPath=28_29&products_id=80

GetBoosted84
09-26-2007, 06:43 AM
I was looking at the ATP also but the one on the Boost Factory website IS the ATP manifold isn't it?

http://boostfactory.net/product_info.php?cPath=28_29&products_id=80

I think it is. The 034 motorsports one is supposed to be better (link (http://www.034motorsport.com/product_info.php?products_id=784)) but I got a good deal on the ATP one so I am going to try it (and brace the turbo).

I wanted to upgrade the manifold also since I do not currently have an aftermarket exhaust on the car.

mike-2ptzero
09-26-2007, 06:54 AM
I was looking at the ATP also but the one on the Boost Factory website IS the ATP manifold isn't it?

http://boostfactory.net/product_info.php?cPath=28_29&products_id=80

Same exact style and looks but is manufactured by 2 different people, so this makes them 2 different manifolds.

GetBoosted84
09-26-2007, 07:09 AM
Ahh, thanks for clearing that up Mike. I'm going to run with the ATP manifold until it either fails me or I get some more money together to buy a new one since I already bought it.

So the general consensus is that as long as I update the inlet pipe (and change my spark plugs) I should be good to go? Or should I also nix the air filter for a stock Meyle one?

audiFUEGO
09-26-2007, 08:02 AM
does the neuspeed TIP have a 3" inlet?

GetBoosted84
09-26-2007, 03:03 PM
I was planning on using my stock airbox and just dremeling out enough to fit the 3" maf and then using a 3" to 2.75" reducer to fit the maf onto the intake pipe.

You guys think I should skip that idea then and go with the 3" TIP from ATP? If I go with the 3" tip then (judging by the info in the linked thread) I would need to use a cone filter attached to the maf also then make a heat shield for it also... right?

audiFUEGO
09-26-2007, 04:48 PM
just a heads up... the TIP is 250$


i dont think u need a cone filter to run the tip but if you need a heat shield, theres a member that sells them... perfect design.

ianlionzion
09-26-2007, 06:51 PM
Your setup will be fine...

Here's what I am running:

* GIAC FXK04/"Hammer" programming (via Jeff Moss)
* Siemens 380cc injectors
* TT 225 MAF
* KKK K04-15
* Stock 4 bar FPR
* Stock Airbox modded to fit the MAF - OEM Mann air filter
* Neuspeed TIP
* GHL HFC
* APR cat back exhaust
* Racetec FMIC
* SPP Port and Polished Exhaust Manifold
* Forge 007 BPV - yellow spring
* NGK BKR7E spark plugs

i have no issues other than my fuel trims are off.
+4 at idle
- 13 at PT

which is indicative of an air leak between the turbo and TB. I'll be pressure testing this weekend.

audiFUEGO
09-26-2007, 07:01 PM
Your setup will be fine...

Here's what I am running:

* GIAC FXK04/"Hammer" programming (via Jeff Moss)
* Siemens 380cc injectors
* TT 225 MAF
* KKK K04-15
* Stock 4 bar FPR
* Stock Airbox modded to fit the MAF - OEM Mann air filter
* Neuspeed TIP
* GHL HFC
* APR cat back exhaust
* Racetec FMIC
* SPP Port and Polished Exhaust Manifold
* Forge 007 BPV - yellow spring
* NGK BKR7E spark plugs

i have no issues other than my fuel trims are off.
+4 at idle
- 13 at PT

which is indicative of an air leak between the turbo and TB. I'll be pressure testing this weekend.


How do you have a neuspeed tip with 3" maf? can u post picture?

ianlionzion
09-26-2007, 07:19 PM
How do you have a neuspeed tip with 3" maf? can u post picture?

http://images25.fotki.com/v886/photos/3/356984/1264722/06022007097-vi.jpg

have a trumpet too...

http://images26.fotki.com/v891/photos/3/356984/1264722/06022007095-vi.jpg

The neuspeed tip will not fit over the MAF. I used 3" silicone coupler over the MAF and TIP to join the two. I have a 1 1/2" long thin piece of aluminum tubing (2 3/4") inserted in the TIP end to help with the structural integrity of the connection so I can clamp it correctly.

GetBoosted84
09-26-2007, 08:46 PM
Thanks ianlionzion. That is exactly what I needed. I was planning to follow in your footsteps after I saw how you modded your airbox before. Although I did not realize that I needed a new TIP to do it. I am searching around now to get a hold of one of them so I can take a weekend and put everything together.

Thanks again guys!

This would have been a real PITA if I had gotten that far with my install and realized that I needed one last part (TIP) that I'm definitely not finding at any local store.

audiFUEGO
09-26-2007, 09:13 PM
ianlionzion- where did you get that trumpet coupler?

does your TIP fit under the trumpet AND over your 1/2" aluminum tubing?


sweet setup [up]

ianlionzion
09-26-2007, 11:08 PM
you don't need a new TIP, the stock one will stretch over the TT MAF. But if you do go that direction, that is how I got it to fit.



Thanks ianlionzion. That is exactly what I needed. I was planning to follow in your footsteps after I saw how you modded your airbox before. Although I did not realize that I needed a new TIP to do it. I am searching around now to get a hold of one of them so I can take a weekend and put everything together.

Thanks again guys!

This would have been a real PITA if I had gotten that far with my install and realized that I needed one last part (TIP) that I'm definitely not finding at any local store.

ianlionzion
09-26-2007, 11:13 PM
google "flared port tube" Any shop that sells speaker parts should have it. I used a 3" one and cut it to fit.

The trumpet is on the other side of the MAF and has nothing to do with the TIP.


ianlionzion- where did you get that trumpet coupler?

does your TIP fit under the trumpet AND over your 1/2" aluminum tubing?


sweet setup [up]

GetBoosted84
09-27-2007, 04:28 AM
Awesome. Thanks again. I am going to pick up the port tube and a silicone 3" to 2 3/4" reducer this weekend then maybe I can actually get rolling on this project.

docurley
09-27-2007, 04:41 AM
Would not this reducer not work?

http://i13.ebayimg.com/03/i/07/b8/fe/6f_1.JPG

Link (http://stores.ebay.co.uk/ZENARacing_Silicone-reducer_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ2852817QQftidZ2QQtZ km)

indyfab302
09-27-2007, 08:14 AM
Your setup will be fine...

i have no issues other than my fuel trims are off.
+4 at idle
- 13 at PT

which is indicative of an air leak between the turbo and TB. I'll be pressure testing this weekend.

Nice to see I'm not the only one w/ less than spec fuel trims and running hella rich. Mine have been at 3% and -20% and my lambda reading at WOT was 0.727. I was starting to think maybe I had the standard K04 file instead of Moss'. I have fully leak tested my car w/ a smoke machine and it is well sealed. I emailed Jeff earlier this week in hopes he has some recommendations otherwise I will have to pull some fuel in w/ Lemmiwinks.

Does you trip computer read accurately? Mine shows I'm getting 37+ MPG and well over 40 on the highway. Realistically it is high teens in the city and mid 20s on the highway.

indyfab302
09-27-2007, 08:17 AM
I highly recommend the N75F update as well. I ran mine on the stock C valve for a few days and was having "overboost" problems... 25+ psi. The F valve brought me back down to reasonable levels... spikes of 21 psi and tapering to 15.

GetBoosted84
09-27-2007, 10:18 AM
I highly recommend the N75F update as well. I ran mine on the stock C valve for a few days and was having "overboost" problems... 25+ psi. The F valve brought me back down to reasonable levels... spikes of 21 psi and tapering to 15.

I was speaking with a Giac rep and they said not to use anything other than the stock n75 valve. My solution to my fear of overboosting is using the boost machine which will allow me to limit the boost that can be generated before it ever hits the n75 valve.

ianlionzion
09-27-2007, 06:02 PM
Nice to see I'm not the only one w/ less than spec fuel trims and running hella rich. Mine have been at 3% and -20% and my lambda reading at WOT was 0.727. I was starting to think maybe I had the standard K04 file instead of Moss'. I have fully leak tested my car w/ a smoke machine and it is well sealed. I emailed Jeff earlier this week in hopes he has some recommendations otherwise I will have to pull some fuel in w/ Lemmiwinks.

Does you trip computer read accurately? Mine shows I'm getting 37+ MPG and well over 40 on the highway. Realistically it is high teens in the city and mid 20s on the highway.

I spoke to Jeff about it and he suggested that I pull back some fuel also. But I'm not positive that I don't have a leak. I've tested and can't find anything but cant get my lame ass compressor to past 10psi. Once I can get to 20psi (turbo outlet to TB) without a leak then I'll pull some fuel via Lemmiwinks.

As for the mileage issue, i've read somewhere the larger injectors throw off the mileage. You can do some adjustment via VAG-COM to change an adaptation value in the instrument cluster control module.

mike-2ptzero
09-27-2007, 07:02 PM
I spoke to Jeff about it and he suggested that I pull back some fuel also. But I'm not positive that I don't have a leak. I've tested and can't find anything but cant get my lame ass compressor to past 10psi. Once I can get to 20psi (turbo outlet to TB) without a leak then I'll pull some fuel via Lemmiwinks.

As for the mileage issue, i've read somewhere the larger injectors throw off the mileage. You can do some adjustment via VAG-COM to change an adaptation value in the instrument cluster control module.

Pull fuel back for what? Is your WOT readings too rich? WOT is all that counts, the fuel trims are there for a reason so the ecu can run it correct during anything else but WOT.

ianlionzion
09-27-2007, 09:27 PM
Pull fuel back for what? Is your WOT readings too rich? WOT is all that counts, the fuel trims are there for a reason so the ecu can run it correct during anything else but WOT.


Nice to see I'm not the only one w/ less than spec fuel trims and running hella rich. Mine have been at 3% and -20% and my lambda reading at WOT was 0.727.

Mike.

I also pulled some logs and my lambda readings are also .727 at WOT.

Coincidence?

what do you think?

Suggestions?

audiFUEGO
09-28-2007, 05:16 AM
which block do you read for lambda readings?

whats a normal reading?

onemoremile
09-28-2007, 06:07 AM
skip on the atp TIP, get a neuspeed TIP.
i'd remove that k&n panel filter... some claim it ruins the MAF. better safe than sorry.

Those people can't follow basic instructions. After the filter is cleaned it should dry overnight. If you skip the drying step and reinstall it wet you will have problems.

I ran a K&N panel filter in my old 94 Jetta VR6. Went in at 5 miles and stayed there until the car died at 299,900 miles. It was cleaned and oiled every 50k miles. It never had a problem related to the filter. That was the only part of the car I could count on not to break.

GetBoosted84
09-28-2007, 06:23 AM
Those people can't follow basic instructions. After the filter is cleaned it should dry overnight. If you skip the drying step and reinstall it wet you will have problems.

I ran a K&N panel filter in my old 94 Jetta VR6. Went in at 5 miles and stayed there until the car died at 299,900 miles. It was cleaned and oiled every 50k miles. It never had a problem related to the filter. That was the only part of the car I could count on not to break.

lol, I'm glad to see another opinion on this topic. I really would hate to stop using that filter since they are supposed to last forever.

indyfab302
09-28-2007, 06:47 AM
which block do you read for lambda readings?

whats a normal reading?

Block 031. It was suggested to me to shoot for mid 0.8s at WOT which should be around 12.5 stoic.

ModifiedA4
09-28-2007, 06:48 AM
Those people can't follow basic instructions. After the filter is cleaned it should dry overnight. If you skip the drying step and reinstall it wet you will have problems.

I ran a K&N panel filter in my old 94 Jetta VR6. Went in at 5 miles and stayed there until the car died at 299,900 miles. It was cleaned and oiled every 50k miles. It never had a problem related to the filter. That was the only part of the car I could count on not to break.

anectdotal evidence like your jetta story is irrelavent. the type of maf on a DBW 1.8t is completely different than one in a '94 jetta, let alone an AEB 1.8t. Older maf types are less accurate, but more tolerant of dirty environments. i mean really, what does a K&N get you? crappy filtering? no performance improvement? risk to a modern maf?

my car has a stock filter, exhaust, smic, normal k04 program, and its dyno'd at around 200awhp. spend your money elsewhere.

here's the maf tech info from Bosch. (http://www.modifieda4.com/web/archive/sensors_airmass.pdf)AEB mafs are type '2' and DBW mafs are type '5'. read the bullet under the type '2' one: Insensitive to dirt and contamination. hmmm, that bullet doesnt exist for the type '5' :)

indyfab302
09-28-2007, 06:52 AM
As for the mileage issue, i've read somewhere the larger injectors throw off the mileage. You can do some adjustment via VAG-COM to change an adaptation value in the instrument cluster control module.

That is what I thought but wasn't positive. I seem to remember reading some files recalibrated the trip computer for the increased fueling "out of the box". I guess this isn't one of those files.

onemoremile
09-28-2007, 06:59 AM
anectdotal evidence like your jetta story is irrelavent. the type of maf on a DBW 1.8t is completely different than one in a '94 jetta, let alone an AEB 1.8t. Older maf types are less accurate, but more tolerant of dirty environments. i mean really, what does a K&N get you? crappy filtering? no performance improvement? risk to a modern maf?

my car has a stock filter, exhaust, smic, normal k04 program, and its dyno'd at around 200awhp. spend your money elsewhere.

here's the maf tech info from Bosch. AEB mafs are type '2' and DBW mafs are type '5'. read the bullet under the type '2' one: Insensitive to dirt and contamination. hmmm, that bullet doesnt exist for the type '5' :) (http://www.modifieda4.com/web/archive/sensors_airmass.pdf)

It seems you have an illogical bent against a wad of cotton gauze. Nothing I can do about that. The product you maligned is still excellent though. The filter has absolutely nothing to do with your dyno numbers which actually are irrelevant due to the wide variance in dynos.

How about the 2001 S4 with K04 turbos and 210,000 miles? A K&N panel filter was installed before it left the dealership. I think the mileage was 62 or 64 miles. It too gets cleaned every 50k and still works like new. The car has done a GPS verified 167 mph and although it has never been on a dyno I'm pretty sure it makes a bit more than 200whp.

ModifiedA4
09-28-2007, 01:51 PM
sorry for dealing in facts. (ie actually providing the spec sheets for the mafs).

here are more facts:
http://forums.audiworld.com/a4/msgs/2735023.phtml

audiFUEGO
10-01-2007, 05:58 AM
bump