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View Full Version : who is running BT with no maf?



autoxtrem
08-20-2007, 08:35 PM
Well my last set up i was running S4 maf with tapp tuning and it worked awesome, but with the new big turbo i can' t fit a maf. Chris said it would be fine but would like to hear some of you who drive around tell me how it is.

i will be running 22psi street 30psi straight c16. on awm with rods and alot of other parts. will post pics later.

thanks.

Poopie
08-20-2007, 08:38 PM
your car will run fine off the map sensor.

Don Supreme
08-21-2007, 05:19 AM
I am.

mike-2ptzero
08-21-2007, 08:24 AM
Well my last set up i was running S4 maf with tapp tuning and it worked awesome, but with the new big turbo i can' t fit a maf. Chris said it would be fine but would like to hear some of you who drive around tell me how it is.

i will be running 22psi street 30psi straight c16. on awm with rods and alot of other parts. will post pics later.

thanks.

Cant fit a maf? So you are saying you can fit a filter but cant fit a 90 deg hose on the front of your turbo? Even I was able to do that to run a maf with my GT35r before going stand alone.

What turbo and exhaust manifold are you running?

B5Burn
08-21-2007, 08:39 AM
No MAF. Running standalone.

Don Supreme
08-21-2007, 09:06 AM
If I had to guess based on the following factors:
1. Canada
2. Tapp customer

There is a good chance he is running the same mani as me. If he is running a BAT there is honestly very little space.

mike-2ptzero
08-21-2007, 09:15 AM
If I had to guess based on the following factors:
1. Canada
2. Tapp customer

There is a good chance he is running the same mani as me. If he is running a BAT there is honestly very little space.

But what manifold did TAPP sell? Because there are many manifolds that put a BAT in different spots. Plenty of space with a full-race manifold, but I guess that "space" comes with a price tag [:D]

autoxtrem
08-21-2007, 09:56 AM
im running a cast manifold wich is not a top mount like the equal lenght. atp replica. i did not buy the manifold.

i have no space to go over the compressor housing and between the headlight switch.

im running a T04S cover 4" inlet

mike-2ptzero
08-21-2007, 10:33 AM
ATP ran a hose to a maf while using that manifold and a turbo with a 4" inlet.

xr4tic
08-21-2007, 10:52 AM
Sounds to me like you don't want to go through the hassle of doing the setup right, and are looking for justification to just skip the MAF.

Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

autoxtrem
08-21-2007, 11:07 AM
listen i do things right the first time around. when you see the pics you will understand. im not using a garrett turbo wich you will see also. even this 3­" inlet was a bit tricky but i made it since i had the space was there. this set up using a gt28s made 360WHP 350ft/lbs

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/boostedrocco/IMG_0338.jpg

mike-2ptzero
08-21-2007, 11:19 AM
But you did say you are using a Garrett T04s housing with a 4" inlet. The turbo you are using would have to be pretty far forward to not allow any type of 4" hose seeing that you are using a reducer hose on the front of the GT28rs pictured above. Why would you need to go over the compressor housing or between the housing and headlight housing? You can just go down at 90 degs and then put the filter on the fender side of the frame rail, you could even U it back up the other side of the frame with the filter sitting in the same spot as in your picture above but running up/down.

BTW was that 360whp on a quattro or fwd?

Don Supreme
08-21-2007, 12:06 PM
My money is FWHP on racegas. Isn't your car a passat?

Did you break into 12s on your race tune?

P.S. My intercooler piping goes over / around that frame rail. I don't have too much space for inlet piping in that area (in my situation). In this situation it looks like you have a lot more space than I do.

autoxtrem
08-21-2007, 12:11 PM
it's same physical size has t04 but run a bullseye s258 turbo 650whp turbo with .55a/r stainless steel housing wich will hit 25psi at mid 4000rpm.


here are the pics i did look to go down 90 degree but unless i would weld directly onto the housing it' s gonna be tight. with a 5" long filter and 4" long maf it does leave much room if i went down 90 degree. anyway im open to suggestion.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/boostedrocco/IMG_0915.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/boostedrocco/IMG_0914.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/boostedrocco/IMG_0916.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/boostedrocco/IMG_0910.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/boostedrocco/IMG_0911.jpg

Don Supreme
08-21-2007, 12:19 PM
Man thats one shiney turbo!

Wizard-of-OD
08-21-2007, 12:29 PM
Marc you probably dont want to hear this but the Cast MTM manifold places the turbo outlet closer towards cylinder #3 than the ATP unit which places it closer towards cylinder #1.

Whatever the case did you look into the treadstone manifold?Paul runs that with a GT3082R turbocharger and everything clears fine.Even has room for a 90* 4" aluminum pipe.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Treadstone-Cast-Turbo-Manifold-VW-1-8T-jetta-golf-a4-a3_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ007QQitemZ 170140552943QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

mike-2ptzero
08-21-2007, 12:30 PM
Well good luck with that. Might be easier just to toss that manifold and get one that puts the turbo back further.

itsdarrow
08-21-2007, 12:41 PM
not sure if this applies here but im running a gt28rs kit revo/ecodetuning mafless it runs smooth and has put out 320awhp on race

Don Supreme
08-21-2007, 02:11 PM
^ Have you ever posted that dyno?

sean1.8t
08-21-2007, 03:49 PM
not sure if this applies here but im running a gt28rs kit revo/ecodetuning mafless it runs smooth and has put out 320awhp on race

same setup for me also. never had it dyno'd though

autoxtrem
08-21-2007, 05:10 PM
just drove the car with no maf for a couple hours no check engine and car runs awesome. but im only running on the WG for now so 11psi. spools great for a big turbo. will get dynoed early next week.

yeah another manifold would be a option but i think i might be ok putting it 90 degree straight down, but hey if i can make the 420+whp that im shooting for with no maf, then why bother..... if not i will make a piece. time will tell.

mike-2ptzero
08-21-2007, 07:14 PM
just drove the car with no maf for a couple hours no check engine and car runs awesome. but im only running on the WG for now so 11psi. spools great for a big turbo. will get dynoed early next week.

yeah another manifold would be a option but i think i might be ok putting it 90 degree straight down, but hey if i can make the 420+whp that im shooting for with no maf, then why bother..... if not i will make a piece. time will tell.

You could use a cobra hose, I had one on my car back when I was making 430whp.

autoxtrem
08-21-2007, 07:25 PM
yeah i think i could use that if i were to go 90 downwards?

but if i can run fine without why would i use one?

hitting the dyno has soon has i can to get the results. so far spool up is quicker than GT30r and this turbo flows more than GT35R so numbers should be good.

mike-2ptzero
08-21-2007, 07:32 PM
Well the maf helps the ecu set the adv timing and fuel maps when the air density changes. It would be ok if your tuner programmed the chip to run without the maf like revo does for the B6's but those cars have a wide band 02 sensor stock and the ecu is programmed with a target AFR while the pre 2001's dont.

Don Supreme
08-21-2007, 08:32 PM
I think his car is a 2001.

Spools quicker than a 30r, but flows more than a gt35r huh? Sounds too good to be true.

killa
08-21-2007, 09:15 PM
im running a cast manifold wich is not a top mount like the equal lenght. atp replica. i did not buy the manifold.

i have no space to go over the compressor housing and between the headlight switch.

im running a T04S cover 4" inlet

Marc, run a 90* 4 to 3" reducer to a J pipe and route around the frame rail.
Let me know if you need more help, i'll take pics if you cant picture it.

You can also run the maf blow through type.
hth
Paul

killa
08-21-2007, 09:16 PM
Whatever the case did you look into the treadstone manifold?Paul runs that with a GT3082R turbocharger and everything clears fine.Even has room for a 90* 4" aluminum pipe.


Im not running that manifold, my manifold has the same specs as the atp unit but made out of better cast and easier to put the nuts on.[up]

killa
08-21-2007, 09:18 PM
I think his car is a 2001.

Spools quicker than a 30r, but flows more than a gt35r huh? Sounds too good to be true.

That's because it's BS. I can prove this whenever you guys want.

killa
08-21-2007, 09:19 PM
You could use a cobra hose, I had one on my car back when I was making 430whp.

The cobra hits the headlight, i tried with a similar manifold, you'd need the turbo to be a couple of inches back.

Don Supreme
08-22-2007, 03:57 AM
That's because it's BS. I can prove this whenever you guys want.


The claim is false or what I said is false (I don't see how that could be)?

Please show us what you have (Your proof).

AND PLEASE DYNO THAT GT3082 why don't you??

autoxtrem
08-22-2007, 05:09 AM
the s258 will do 600WHP no problem and support over 4.00 pressure ratio VS 3.4.

@ 60lbs the s258 is at 70% VS 65% for the gt35r efficiency
in the 40lbs-50 range the s258 runs 78%/76% VS 79%/72%

they are very similar in peak power but mine has a SS housing wich creates more heat so helps spool up, and im running it in .55a/r t3 housing.

my buddy has the gt30R in a mk3 1.8t and we did some runs last night to compare and mine spooled quicker and pulled more @11psi in my heavy ass passat.

anyway i don t want to start a debate i will dyno it @ 22psi pump and 28-30psi race gas and will let the numbers speak for itself. then im hitting the track sept 2.

paul i would like to see some pics if you can post i would appreciate it.

Don Supreme
08-22-2007, 05:33 AM
Look forward to result sir.

Are you going to get some slicks or should we just focus on your trap speed ([:)]J/K!)

autoxtrem
08-22-2007, 06:01 AM
for sure i will use slicks again, with a bad track condition i only got a 2.2 60ft and ran 13.1@110mph with gt28s@25psi weekend before was a nhra event i was pulling 1.89 60ft and doing 13.26@104mph@20psi.

with the usual 1.8-1.9 that i can pull on good track day im already in the high 12s range with small gt28s.


here is the 13.1 110mph run
http://youtube.com/results?search_query=passat+13.1&search=Search

Don Supreme
08-22-2007, 07:30 AM
Good video...

You must have some fun street encounters in your passat... A lot of sad faces for sure.

mike-2ptzero
08-22-2007, 07:45 AM
for sure i will use slicks again, with a bad track condition i only got a 2.2 60ft and ran 13.1@110mph with gt28s@25psi weekend before was a nhra event i was pulling 1.89 60ft and doing 13.26@104mph@20psi.

with the usual 1.8-1.9 that i can pull on good track day im already in the high 12s range with small gt28s.


here is the 13.1 110mph run
http://youtube.com/results?search_query=passat+13.1&search=Search

I am suprised they let you do a burn out past the stage line. Which track was that?


Here is a pic of me in a 400whp/wtq fwd car that had a 2.0 liter and GT2871r, EurotunerGP at LACR last year.
http://images.eurotuner.com/images/160_0701_et_05z+tuner_grand_prix+volkswagen_gti.jp g

autoxtrem
08-22-2007, 08:48 AM
really nice car what did you run with yours, i know my times are slow compare to mk4 but should be in the 12s easy with new set up.

the track was luskville dragway and it was a cruise night so anything goes...

mike-2ptzero
08-22-2007, 09:12 AM
really nice car what did you run with yours, i know my times are slow compare to mk4 but should be in the 12s easy with new set up.

the track was luskville dragway and it was a cruise night so anything goes...

Wasn't my car, it was a car built by Eurocode for a customer which was used in the Eurotuner GP, I was just asked to drive it in the drag event.

Car ran 13.6 at 115 but could not get any traction at all down the track because of the tires. This was at LACR which is 2710 ft and with air density conditions well above 3k ft. Huge difference between LACR and Luskville which is very close to sea level, it was where Tapp ran their A4.

autoxtrem
08-22-2007, 09:36 AM
totaly agree with the elevation factor, still can`t wait to test this new set up i just built.

Wizard-of-OD
08-22-2007, 06:00 PM
Does this help?
http://www.ultimate-racing.com/ProjectCars/Audi-A4/audi2.jpg

Don Supreme
08-22-2007, 07:40 PM
Who does that car belong to? Any details on the setup?

autoxtrem
08-23-2007, 04:50 AM
yeah it does but my turbo is not position like yours, your compressor housing is almost touching the valve cover, mine is a couple inch away.

car runs great with no maf still un-tuned i installed a 14.7psi spring and this turbo hits 14.7psi@3800rpm doing a 4th pull from 3000rpm. once it`s tuned and more boost im sure i can see 20psi by 4200rpm 25psi@4500rpm.

dyno monday!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/boostedrocco/IMG_0918.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/boostedrocco/IMG_0917.jpg

mike-2ptzero
08-23-2007, 05:12 AM
I can tell you right now that wg tube to the down pipe is not going to last very long at all and will crack.


Why did you install a stiffer wg spring or are you not running a boost controller?


Your spool up time seems to be exactly like my old S200 turbo which had that same exact 8 bolt compressor housing, but your exhaust housing is much different where mine had the huge 3.5" vband outlet.

autoxtrem
08-23-2007, 06:28 AM
i have done this many times before and have yet to have one crack, the whole assembly moves togheter and the at the bottem relieves the pressure.

if it cracks later on for the first time i will fix it.

ran a stiffer spring cuz to have good boost control you want to stay closer to 1/2 the size of the spring. i will run 30psi so i have a 14.7psix2=29.4psi if you run a small spring like 10psi and run 30psi on it it could flutter at high rpm wich has happen before.

the smaller s256 would spool 200-300rpm but this is the bigger s258. i really like the way this big turbo spools. so far i like it alot.

was your housing SS or cast. i know they offer many different types of housing.

SS housing turned Gold, looks sharp./air filter coming in today

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/boostedrocco/IMG_0920.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/boostedrocco/IMG_0919.jpg

mike-2ptzero
08-23-2007, 11:42 AM
When I got my S200 turbo it was way before they even started producing any of them, basicly ITS was able to get the turbo from AirWerks which took some time as Airwerks pieced it together. This was way back in 2002 when I first got that turbo which I had till about 2004. Not sure if I have any of those pics anymore since they were on my old computer that crashed.


I had it exactly like that even with a flex tube between the down pipe and wg, but it still ended cracking because all of the tubes expand in different directions.

sean1.8t
08-23-2007, 08:06 PM
regardless of cracking or not it looks like you do clean work [up]

looking forward to seeing a dyno chart on this turbo