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View Full Version : wheel offset and tire size?



blakhaüs
08-19-2007, 12:11 PM
im looking to buy a set of wheels i found and even though ive heard staggering on a quattro is no good, i could probably pull them off with the right tire sizes to match. the car is a b5 avant 2.8qt
the wheels are 18x8.5 F et38 18x9.5 R et40 the tires im looking at doing are 215/40 F and 245/35 R.
any way u wheel and tire gurus think i may pull this off? [drive]

97audia4
08-19-2007, 12:25 PM
Yea you could pull it off but you come anywhere close to rubbing in the front at all with that tire choice and offset, in the rear you mine as well do a 235 you wont rub and it will give it a stretched look a little bit, are you lowerd on coils or what?

98a4
08-19-2007, 01:02 PM
Run 235 in the rear, you will have issues with upper CA in the reat at 40 offset if your low.

I have 17x9.5 et 18 215/45/17 and I barely clear, so with your wheels almost 1" inwards you will be cutting it close

hey4
08-19-2007, 01:26 PM
you will be fine upfront, I ran 245/40/18 et35 on sport suspension and it would only rub when going over big dips fast. Rears I'm not sure. I am running 265/35/18 et40 on my passat with no rubbing issues but the rear end on that is totally different compared to an a4 and it's a monster truck with stock suspension

blakhaüs
08-19-2007, 02:17 PM
tjanx for the reply guys...im looking to do some coilovers in the near future. maybe go as low as 2 1/2 as i live in jersey and my driveway isnt that forgiving. when i did the calculations on the tire calculator, those were the closest sizes i could find on certain tire brands. worst come to worst ill have to throw a small spacer on to prevent rubbing on the CA. i was hoping somebody might be running this setup and be able to shed some light on the subject with quattro thrown in the factor.
thanx again guys.[hail]

98a4
08-19-2007, 05:48 PM
I can answer any staggered/quattro question you have, I have alot of experiance with it. Settle on a tire size and post it up, I'll let you know if it will fit and anything else you would want to know. I would say dont put the wheels on untill you have suspension, it will look like garbage. 2.5" drop isnt that much, but I hate Nj roads and refuse to take my car in that state...

lml999
08-19-2007, 06:40 PM
im looking to buy a set of wheels i found and even though ive heard staggering on a quattro is no good, i could probably pull them off with the right tire sizes to match. the car is a b5 avant 2.8qt
the wheels are 18x8.5 F et38 18x9.5 R et40 the tires im looking at doing are 215/40 F and 245/35 R.
any way u wheel and tire gurus think i may pull this off? [drive]

Are you going for looks or for handling?

If you're going for looks, the 215 tire on an 8.5" wheel will look dumb. Not nearly enough tire for the rim. Same for the rear. 245 is not enough tire for a 9.5" rim.

If you're going for handling, well, where do I start.

Okay, this isn't a RWD BMW.

If you drive a quattro well, a set of well matched tires and a stiff rear is all you need. And by the way, this is all overkill for the street. You won't start to touch the quattro's capabilities until you get it on to an autocross course or the track (or you're driving like an idiot on public streets).

Just my .02

98a4
08-19-2007, 06:55 PM
^^^

Search
staggerd (i.e. euro styling)
Streched
Offset
Current trends

then come back and talk

a4fann
08-19-2007, 07:09 PM
Stretch is a euro thing and these cars are euro, 215's on an 8.5 is perfect unless you want to go 205 yum.

lml999
08-19-2007, 07:37 PM
Stretch is a euro thing and these cars are euro, 215's on an 8.5 is perfect unless you want to go 205 yum.

Right. I asked whether the OP was going for looks or handling.

If you're going for looks, well, that's up to you, but personally, I think undersized tires look stupid...like you pieced together the car and couldn't get it right.

And if you're going for handling, well, stretching tires is NOT a "euro thing." It's a ricer thing.

Check any tire manufacturer's recommended tire size for an 8.5" rim size. You won't find 215 mentioned.

And no, they're not running stretched tires in Europe, at least on cars that are driven hard.

But it's your car, enjoy it!

97audia4
08-19-2007, 07:44 PM
Right. I asked whether the OP was going for looks or handling.

If you're going for looks, well, that's up to you, but personally, I think undersized tires look stupid...like you pieced together the car and couldn't get it right.

And if you're going for handling, well, stretching tires is NOT a "euro thing." It's a ricer thing.

Check any tire manufacturer's recommended tire size for an 8.5" rim size. You won't find 215 mentioned.

And no, they're not running stretched tires in Europe, at least on cars that are driven hard.

But it's your car, enjoy it!


how is streching a tire rice? Let 98a4 post a pic of his rear wheels, it looks sick, its a mothod of fitting wide ass rim with our rubbing when you are low

lml999
08-19-2007, 08:20 PM
how is streching a tire rice? Let 98a4 post a pic of his rear wheels, it looks sick, its a mothod of fitting wide ass rim with our rubbing when you are low

Stretching a tire deforms the sidewall, keeping it from working as designed.

If you're going for looks, fine. Not my cup o' tea, but whatever.

If you're going for handling, this ain't the way to go.

blakhaüs
08-19-2007, 08:41 PM
well as of now im going for looks. i doubt ill be hitting any autocrosses with my daily driver anytime soon.
ur entitled to ur opinion about stretching is for ricers. i guess a high percentage of euro goodness should be considered rice. to each their own i guess....
the tires specified in my first post are the tire sizes im pretty much lookin at. tanx for the replies.

97audia4
08-19-2007, 09:15 PM
in the rear you are going to have to go for a 235 though bc with that offset they will rub like 98a4 said

a4fann
08-20-2007, 11:46 AM
Stretching a tire deforms the sidewall, keeping it from working as designed.

If you're going for looks, fine. Not my cup o' tea, but whatever.

If you're going for handling, this ain't the way to go.

actually by stretching the tires like say a 225 on a 8.5 or 9 which is a little strech you improve the handeling do to a stiffer side wall, look at the porsche cup cars.

lml999
08-20-2007, 12:18 PM
actually by stretching the tires like say a 225 on a 8.5 or 9 which is a little strech you improve the handeling do to a stiffer side wall, look at the porsche cup cars.

Um no.

I've seen hundreds, perhaps thousands of race cars, and I've never seen a tire stretched. I did a search on PCup cars, didn't find a single picture of a stretched tire.

Here's the only other conversation I was able to find regarding stretch:

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=371300

And they're pretty clear. It's stupid to run tires on rims wider than they're designed for.

Why do you think you can second guess *all* of the tire manufacturer's engineering departments and improve what they've designed?

What's next, the 100 mpg carb?

Find me a single knowledgeable tire engineer or accomplished racer who says that stretching tires is a good idea and I'll buy you a latte, or a liter of Pentosin, whichever you prefer.

98a4
08-20-2007, 01:06 PM
^^^ Yet another jackass who comes in here with his opinion and knows it all.

I'm streched to all hell, I'll slide my car around anything and feel fine about it.

Streched came out of american low rider trucks and hot rods. No one says they are the best for handling, but any ture track person has a set of track wheels w/ track rubber.
Euro cars strech all the time, on a 8.5" wide wheel a 215/45/17 will perform just about identically to a 235/45/17. Eveyone thinks of extreme strech...

in conclusion....
Difference is, you read on the internet and think you know, I have them, have had them and have abused them, therefore, my opinion is worth more then yours. (Yes opinions can be worth more then others) Stop trying to be an e-thug.

lml999's opinion FTL


http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g8/blownbunny/2florida383.jpg

lml999
08-20-2007, 01:31 PM
^^^ Yet another jackass who comes in here with his opinion and knows it all.

I'm streched to all hell, I'll slide my car around anything and feel fine about it.

Streched came out of american low rider trucks and hot rods. No one says they are the best for handling, but any ture track person has a set of track wheels w/ track rubber.
Euro cars strech all the time, on a 8.5" wide wheel a 215/45/17 will perform just about identically to a 235/45/17. Eveyone thinks of extreme strech...

in conclusion....
Difference is, you read on the internet and think you know, I have them, have had them and have abused them, therefore, my opinion is worth more then yours. (Yes opinions can be worth more then others)


Been autocrossing since before you were out of diapers son. No self respecting racer whould show up with tires abused like that. My original statement stands. If you're going for looks, enjoy. But don't kid yourself about stretched tires and performance.

Whatever.

Note to self: Give up trying to share wisdom on an Internet forum. What they said about a thousand monkeys with typewriters is true. Except I still haven't seen any Shakespeare.

a4fann
08-20-2007, 01:34 PM
by stretching a tire the sidewall gets stiffer.....

98a4
08-20-2007, 02:48 PM
What does age have to do with anything? I am not saying your wrong and I'm right, but your saying I'm wrong.

One of us has first hand experiance.
One of us doesn't.

/end

a4fann
08-20-2007, 03:33 PM
o wait.......

edit lml999 your an idiot.
/thread.

europshhrc279
08-20-2007, 03:35 PM
im with 98a4 on all this..

a4fann
08-20-2007, 03:41 PM
my buddy is running 205's on a 9.5 on his mk2.

98a4 did you get those RF's from a2coupe2a on the tex.

98a4
08-20-2007, 03:53 PM
yes.

lml999
08-20-2007, 07:07 PM
by stretching a tire the sidewall gets stiffer.....

Um, no. Tire sidewall stiffness is primarily dictated by tire pressure.

And actually, stretching a tire deforms the sidewall and makes it *less* able to withstand deflection while turning.

Look at F1 cars. Plenty of sidewall, no stretching. They handle pretty well.

I'll go back to my original statement, which the OP confirmed:

If you're doing this for looks, great.

We're all agreed on this. Lets stop wasting bandwidth.

97audia4
08-20-2007, 09:08 PM
98a4 we need to put together the recent threads of all the people that have asked this questions over and over again i think you and I have answered a million of these question, and the thing about a stratched tire is you have to run more pressure, i run more pressure in my tires but i have slid around corners at 80 not ever had a problem with it

98a4
08-21-2007, 01:00 PM
I wouldnt go telling people to run more pressure on streched. My beads barely seat, and I run 36psi on 512's. What are you running?

97audia4
08-21-2007, 02:28 PM
thats what im running as well, the pressure recomended is 31 or 32 , and i have the same tires as you, how wide are you in the rear?

offroader1006
08-21-2007, 03:19 PM
Stretching tires is purely "Form over Function"

It may look better, but it negatively affects tire life and grip.

No one in their right mind would settle for a 215 over a 245 for performance reasons. Despite the stretched/stiffer sidewall with an identical section width, you still lose 1.2" of tread width.

No other comparison or discussion really needs to follow to support or denounce this, because its a fact, not someones opinion.

If you like the way it looks, great, but just don't try to infer it helps performance in any way.

98a4
08-21-2007, 03:45 PM
I'm 9.5 in the back on a 3piece, so its truely closer to 10. 215/45/17 on it.



Decreases tire life? How?
If your streching your tires, your generally running wider wheels, so loosing 1.18" of contact patch isn't exactly right. Your not loosing any if you are unable to run that size wheels without running a strech.

I'm not trying to aruge, but its my nature to pick things apart and put logic to them.... :)

97audia4
08-21-2007, 04:33 PM
damn, im running a 9 in the rear on a three piece as well and im running a 225, not sure how you drive in york man i had like car at 23.3 in the front and 23 in the rear and it was almost undrivable i rased it back up to 23.5 inches around

98a4
08-21-2007, 05:04 PM
22.8 and its not easy at all.

a4fann
08-21-2007, 05:52 PM
I'm at 24, it still can be a bitch sometimes.

offroader1006
08-21-2007, 06:17 PM
When you stretch the sidewall to that extent, it does not fully support the tread patch, which can lead to cupping of the tire.

The engineers who design these tires measure the forces and heat generated by them at different loads. It is the same as running a CV joint at an extreme angle.

98a4
08-21-2007, 06:25 PM
cupping is created when toe is faced // \\ or \\ // not when a tire is rolling straight down the road, once again personal experiance vs. internet knowledge. 10+k miles on my tires and no cupping, but at -4+ degrees camber I only get 7k out of a set... still no cupping.

lml999
08-21-2007, 06:38 PM
When you stretch the sidewall to that extent, it does not fully support the tread patch, which can lead to cupping of the tire.

The engineers who design these tires measure the forces and heat generated by them at different loads. It is the same as running a CV joint at an extreme angle.

I can't figure it out. What is the attraction?

I've run 255 and 245 40 series tires on 17x8 OZ SLs on my C5 A6. Depending on the tire, the 255 can seem like too much tire for the car (NA 2.8 V6), but I sure do like how the tire fills the wheelwells and protects the wheel from damage if I get too close to a curb. I find the look of a stretched tire and an exposed bead just silly, like 22" chrome wheels on a Chevy Impala. Doh. Or maybe it's just me. But then again, I can't figure out the attraction of coffee can exhausts or winged wiper arms. Maybe I'm getting old. :)

I'm running 235/45 tires on 5 spoke sport wheels now, will be swapping them out on Friday for 17x8 OZ SLs with less offset (35). I'm hoping that with the lower offset there's room to go up a size to 245/40 tires...at 235/45 I'm already out of STS, in STX. There isn't a whole lot of room there now.

Not sure what the ideal tire size is for a B5 A4. Was hoping that this thread would give some clue, but that ain't happening.

onemoremile
08-21-2007, 07:24 PM
Whether or not a 245/40-17 fits depends on the offset and the tire itself. I think a 245/40-17 Pilot Sport will fit. I ran 235/45-17 with clearance to spare on 17x8 et35. The tires offered a lot of protection so curbing was nearly impossible.
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/1174IMG_1487.JPG

lml999
08-21-2007, 07:31 PM
Whether or not a 245/40-17 fits depends on the offset and the tire itself. I think a 245/40-17 Pilot Sport will fit. I ran 235/45-17 with clearance to spare on 17x8 et35. The tires offered a lot of protection so curbing was nearly impossible.

Nice. My OZ SLs are also ET35. I'm running Eibach Sports and Bilsteins, what are you running for a suspension? Any fender rubbing on compression?

Oh, and btw, are you a bike racer? (sig). I'm a Cat 4, looking forward to cyclocross season!

onemoremile
08-21-2007, 08:02 PM
That was KW coilovers. I'm back on stock sport for now. Never had any rubbing front or rear. Front fenders were rolled.

I had a grassroots good-guy-deal with Santa Cruz before they founded the Syndicate. Also RaceFace, Cane Creek, Chris King, and local stuff too. Founder's Brewery sponsored the local team. Mostly did downhill and dual slalom but slowed down when my kids were born. Stopped urban assault eventually.

97audia4
08-21-2007, 08:47 PM
I can't figure it out. What is the attraction?

Not sure what the ideal tire size is for a B5 A4. Was hoping that this thread would give some clue, but that ain't happening.

Like 98a4 and i have said every time one of the questions arise ITS ALL ABOUT OFFSET WIDTH OF RIM AND TIRE SIZE to be able to tell if it will rub running a wide rim with a lower offset will require you to stretch the tire so it will fit in the fender if you are lowered, but you are staying in Luke Skyjacker mode them dont even bother stretching them, i have 15k on my tires and they show barley any signs of wear at all and i haven even got an alignment for 2k. but with a higher offset like 40 or 35 it will limit you to the tire as well because it may rub the control are depending on how wide it is