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pho1n1x
07-13-2007, 08:19 PM
Hi guys,
At the risk of sounding completely n00b, here goes. Which suspension sits lower, the stock S4 suspension or the A4 sport suspension? I have a 1.8TQM w/ sport suspension and I'm looking for a lower ride. I'm saving for coilovers but would like some sort of stopgap for a lower/slightly stiffer ride... for those nice twisty backroads around here of course[drive]

ActiveMonkey
07-13-2007, 08:23 PM
ok

I went from an OEM Non-Sport to a full S4 and the S4 was about a finger gap higher than the Non-Sport. It will handle better, but ride height sucks ass.

After than i went with the S4 shocks and the Eibach Prokit Springs. This gives me about 1 finger gap in the rear and 1.5 finger gap in front.

im sofa king
07-13-2007, 11:33 PM
I did a search on this (and so can you). I found out that the S4 weighs a bit more than the A4 with a 1.8t. Since it weighs more, the spring rate is a little higher. Putting stock S4 suspension on your 1.8 will raise the height of your car significantly (but maily only in the front). Since all you want to do is lower your car, what you can do is either get 1.8t Sport suspension, or get S4 shocks and put A4 sport springs on them. Well, that or get lowering springs with aftermarket shocks.

Audi91a4
07-14-2007, 06:54 AM
My buddys got Neuspeed race sprigs with S4 shocks on his Avant and its definatly lower then A4 sport shocks with the same springs. Rides really well too.

Tifun
07-14-2007, 07:08 AM
^ He's also an Avant, which weighs more the a sedan, and more then an S4 sedan

onemoremile
07-14-2007, 09:42 AM
The Avant only weighs more in the rear. That should be obvious.

Your buddy's Avant is low because he has Nuespeed RACE springs which are the shortest springs they offer.

Unless you are doing the suspension install yourself save your cash and do it right the first time. Even if you are doing it yourself you are better off doing it right the first time.

The S4 springs should never be installed on a 1.8t car period. They are the wrong part for the application. S4 struts can be used. They feel like they are better damped than the 1.8t sport struts. They tend to last a little longer too. I've run S4 struts with 1.8t sport springs as my winter setup and it was quite nice. It isn't a setup that should autocross or do a track day without a good set of sway bars to keep body roll in check.

Tifun
07-14-2007, 06:28 PM
The Avant only weighs more in the rear. That should be obvious.


Very true, however some of that weight transfers to the front, that's just basic physics. It could be just enough to match the weight of the 2.7. Anybody happen to know the weights of the engines available in the b5 chassis in the U.S.???

onemoremile
07-14-2007, 06:56 PM
Weight transfer doesn't come into play enough to worry about in this regard. The heavier engines (2.7tt > 3.0 > 1.8t) are just heavier. Weight transfer under hard braking is also a function of front spring strength, rear damper strength, front traction, and front braking power. Stiffer suspension means less weight transfer and less brake dive. It also means the rear brakes can do a whole lot more work.

Here is a shot of my Avant under hard braking with S4 struts, 1.8t sport springs, Carbotech Bobcat pads, and Pilot Sport tires.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/onemoremile/gingermanbrakingforturn1.jpg

Tifun
07-14-2007, 08:09 PM
That looks like Gingerman.......is it??? Something about that pic makes me think that. I use to frequent there in my Corrado and 240sx....not so much anymore...

onemoremile
07-14-2007, 09:02 PM
It is. Good eye.

The hobbies link in my sig is the Gingerman infield during a VSCDA race. I was flagging the 5,6,7 area.

IN2VTEC
06-20-2008, 12:26 PM
The S4 springs should never be installed on a 1.8t car period. They are the wrong part for the application. S4 struts can be used. They feel like they are better damped than the 1.8t sport struts. They tend to last a little longer too. I've run S4 struts with 1.8t sport springs as my winter setup and it was quite nice. It isn't a setup that should autocross or do a track day without a good set of sway bars to keep body roll in check.


Can I run S4 shocks with A4 2.8 sport springs? Would that be a decent sporty setup? Thanks in advance!

onemoremile
06-20-2008, 12:38 PM
It would be fine on a V6 but probably too tall for a 1.8t.

I've got a prime example of this right now. I've installed Shine Racing S4 springs with Bilsteins and the front is 1/2" higher than with stock sport. The S4 and A4 springs are the same length but are different rates, 500 and 400 lb/in respectively. Just switching to the 400 lb spring should bring the front back down. I'm guessing a half inch but won't know for sure until the springs get here. There were supposed to arrive today.

IN2VTEC
06-23-2008, 06:21 AM
It would be fine on a V6 but probably too tall for a 1.8t.

I've got a prime example of this right now. I've installed Shine Racing S4 springs with Bilsteins and the front is 1/2" higher than with stock sport. The S4 and A4 springs are the same length but are different rates, 500 and 400 lb/in respectively. Just switching to the 400 lb spring should bring the front back down. I'm guessing a half inch but won't know for sure until the springs get here. There were supposed to arrive today.


I was talking about factory S4 Springs and factory S4 shocks....would this be an ideal setup for my 99 a4 (2.8v6)? I dont' want any weird raises in the front or back..lol

Also, where does everyone buy their S4 factory stuff for cheap? I usually buy my parts from autohausaz.com for a pretty good price but I couldn't locate S4 parts..only A4 parts.

loustylez
06-23-2008, 10:19 AM
question was already answered.

S4 should be fine on 2.8 but may sit a tad higher than the 2.8 sport setup in the front. you won't have any issues other than visual.

docurley
06-23-2008, 03:08 PM
It is the springs that set the height and as stated the springs are set-up for the weight of the car so if you fit the S4 springs to your 2.8 it will lift the car not lower it as the 2.8 is still lighter than the 2.7 engine.

So the best you could do is use the shocks forget the springs, I run RS4 shocks with H&R Race springs and the car sits sweet. I also ran the same set-up with the stock 1.8T sport shock and the car sat the same but now the setup is stiffer with the RS4 shocks.

IN2VTEC
06-24-2008, 06:26 AM
It is the springs that set the height and as stated the springs are set-up for the weight of the car so if you fit the S4 springs to your 2.8 it will lift the car not lower it as the 2.8 is still lighter than the 2.7 engine.

So the best you could do is use the shocks forget the springs, I run RS4 shocks with H&R Race springs and the car sits sweet. I also ran the same set-up with the stock 1.8T sport shock and the car sat the same but now the setup is stiffer with the RS4 shocks.


Where can I buy all this cool OEM stuff..international only? USA websites?

For the ultimate setup, should I order 1.8T SPORT SPRINGS plus RS4 shocks(did they make RS4 during 1999 year?) ?

docurley- Can you post pictures of your cool setup? Thanks in advance![up]

docurley
06-24-2008, 06:50 AM
I would upgrade the springs to say H&R race spring which is what I use as for shocks these where leftover from my RS4 body conversion which I bought the whole shell.

I have no idea what they would run you new but I would recon it would be cheaper to buy upgraded shock than special order in RS4 shocks and yes they will fit any Quattro B5 A4 no matter what year or engine.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/docurley/Audi%20Project/DSC00086.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/docurley/Audi%20Project/DSC00087.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/docurley/Audi%20Project/DSC00085-1.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/docurley/Audi%20Project/DSC00090.jpg

IN2VTEC
06-24-2008, 07:02 AM
I would upgrade the springs to say H&R race spring which is what I use as for shocks these where leftover from my RS4 body conversion which I bought the whole shell.

I have no idea what they would run you new but I would recon it would be cheaper to buy upgraded shock than special order in RS4 shocks and yes they will fit any Quattro B5 A4 no matter what year or engine.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/docurley/Audi%20Project/DSC00086.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/docurley/Audi%20Project/DSC00087.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/docurley/Audi%20Project/DSC00085-1.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/docurley/Audi%20Project/DSC00090.jpg


Your car looks nice, but I'm not sure I want to lower my car that much due to drivability/comfort/clearance issues. I live in a state with tons of potholes and I'm also terrified of camber issues ( don't want to buy a camber kit) and I'm also terrified of WHEEL RUBBING in case I buy 18" wheels/tires. I had those issues when I had a civic with coilovers and 17" aftermarket tires/wheels.....It's unbearable knowing you're rubbing on expensive tires during lock to lock turning or up and down movements while driving....

onemoremile
06-24-2008, 09:06 AM
If you are going to spend real money on shocks then buy Koni or Bilstein. Only get used S4 struts if they are under $100 shipped with less than about 35k miles on them. Otherwise get real dampers so you don't have to worry about swapping out the compromise set in a year or two.

Aftermarket sport springs are taller and will often outperform race springs on the B5. This is because the fancy multi-link suspension has a sweet spot. Got below it and the roll couple increases and you get more body roll which is what lower suspension is trying to avoid in the first place. Sport springs over Konis or Bilsteins isn't all that expensive and will really transform your ride and handling.

IN2VTEC
06-24-2008, 09:52 AM
If you are going to spend real money on shocks then buy Koni or Bilstein. Only get used S4 struts if they are under $100 shipped with less than about 35k miles on them. Otherwise get real dampers so you don't have to worry about swapping out the compromise set in a year or two.

Aftermarket sport springs are taller and will often outperform race springs on the B5. This is because the fancy multi-link suspension has a sweet spot. Got below it and the roll couple increases and you get more body roll which is what lower suspension is trying to avoid in the first place. Sport springs over Konis or Bilsteins isn't all that expensive and will really transform your ride and handling.


I'm so confused....when you say aftermarket sport springs, you are referring to Eibach Pro Kit/ Eibach Sportline/Neuspeed Sport? Progressive or linear rate springs?

I'm so confused because everybody says something else...some ppl on here (from searching threads) say its only ideal to get spring rates mated to shock valve characteristics (i.e. custom shine racing rates, etc)

And some people here say Bilstein does not absorb shocks/pothotles/road nuisances as well as Koni does and that Bilstein is more of a track shock.

I'm basically wanting my car to still feel like an AUDI....sporty yet luxury in that it absorbs road nuances while still having sporting characteristics and good road manners. I figured I might be able to achieve that with a similar OEM "sport" setup.....

Coilovers are out of the question due to the pricetag and corner weight setup/trial & error associated to make it worth it....

Your thoughts elaborated would be greatly appreciated. =)

onemoremile
06-24-2008, 10:01 AM
Bilsteins do tend to be a little more harsh than Konis but that depends on the Bilstein's valving and the Koni's damping setting. Off the shelf sport dampers from either will be quite similar. The Konis are adjustable but only when off the car.

Aftermarket is anything without an Audi factory part number. Vogtland, Eibach, H&R, Neuspeed, Intrax, etc..

IN2VTEC
06-24-2008, 10:27 AM
Do they not make sport shock for REARS..only FRONT?

Also, at autohausaz.com, they list their parts where i'm confused.....does it come in PAIRS or are they just saying you HAVE to buy them in 2?....Where if you select 1 quantity, you get 2 shock absorbers?

I copied/pasted from the site below:

170811
Sachs-Boge
Shock Absorber; Front Left/Right; SuperTouring/OE Version; Comfort Suspension
2 per car. Limited Lifetime Warranty. $196.59 $107.98


170813
Sachs-Boge
Shock Absorber; Front Left/Right; SuperTouring/OE Version; Sport Suspension
For models with Sport Suspension only. 2 per car. Limited Lifetime Warranty. $205.00 $107.09


170817
Sachs-Boge
Shock Absorber; Rear Left/Right; SuperTouring/OE Version
2 per car. Limited Lifetime Warranty. $394.25 $134.01

onemoremile
06-24-2008, 12:59 PM
Try purems.com.

If you need further help call the number on the site. Mike's been around more than long enough to know what's what.