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View Full Version : Anyone have problems with a CTapp ECU?



a220vt
06-02-2007, 04:33 PM
I just put my ECU into my car yesterday, and got everything running after two weeks of downtime, and I can't get the throttle body to adapt, and the ECU has unclearable throttle body adaptation faults. It's annoying the crap out of me because I everytime I come to a stop, or push the clutch in, the idle goes all crazy, and the car dies unless I give it gas. Also, the car is really jerky when cruising, like there's a load point that's way too lean (A/F's jump to around 18.5). Anyone have any ideas? I've already checked for air leaks, tried a capacitive discharge, I can't clear the throttle body faults. I'll be calling Chris on Monday, but I just wanted to see if anyone else has had similar problems with any of his tunes. This is the 630cc program on a '97 AEB A4 by the way. Thanks.

solowb5
06-02-2007, 06:09 PM
is ur voltage stable? or maybe u have a bad maf unless its brand new.

Bigjuice
06-02-2007, 06:33 PM
Try cleaning your MAF...that worked for me
I've had those problems before.

How do you have the MAF positioned?

southpaw10
06-02-2007, 07:00 PM
I had a similar experience minus the throttle adaptation. When I swapped ecu's for the k04 program the car would die when it wasnt in gear. Turns out the ecu was coded for auto. quick change to manual and problem solved

killa
06-02-2007, 07:02 PM
The lightning housing's pretty big, do you have a filter over it? You MUST run a filter so that the air's straight and the position of the housing is critical as well.
hope this helps.
Paul

94jedi
06-02-2007, 07:37 PM
Try cleaning your MAF...that worked for me
I've had those problems before.

How do you have the MAF positioned?

Sean, how did you clean the lightning MAF?

dubiraq05
06-03-2007, 12:03 PM
mine had a crazy idle too. it went away after a few days.

Poopie
06-03-2007, 12:19 PM
I have the same exact problem. chris hasn't found a solution. I just have had the time to work them out.

urS4
06-03-2007, 01:26 PM
The lightning housing's pretty big, do you have a filter over it? You MUST run a filter so that the air's straight and the position of the housing is critical as well.
hope this helps.
Paul

Paul

I did receive the rods. Thank you. How are you supposed to position the MAF? How does this look?

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/15349Snakes-1-med.jpg

a220vt
06-03-2007, 01:50 PM
I have the same exact problem. chris hasn't found a solution. I just have had the time to work them out.
Which problem? The throttle adaptation thing, or the bucking at part throttle? The lightning MAF that I have is brand new, and it's positioned pretty much like the picture above, except I don't have a filter right now, but it's on it's way. Even if I run a filter, how is it going to help me adapt my throttle? Thanks for all the replies guys.[up]

94jedi
06-03-2007, 03:16 PM
Which problem? The throttle adaptation thing, or the bucking at part throttle? The lightning MAF that I have is brand new, and it's positioned pretty much like the picture above, except I don't have a filter right now, but it's on it's way. Even if I run a filter, how is it going to help me adapt my throttle? Thanks for all the replies guys.[up]

not having a filter migh be your issue. the maf needs to see sraight (non-turbulent) air. w/o a filter, the air is rushing in from all over. And Poopie had the throttle adaptation issue.


what plugs are you running?

I have a CTapp program and never had any issues.

a220vt
06-03-2007, 03:35 PM
I'm running NGK bkr7e's. So the throttle adaptation issue doesn't have a fix right now? Did Poopie's car die as well? I was thinking that the dying issue was due to the stepper motor not working properly, but I won't really be worried about that if I can fix the problem by putting the air filter on. I guess I'll see what Chris says tomorrow.

dozentrio
06-03-2007, 06:53 PM
I had throttle body codes that wouldn't clear after trying to do an adaptation. The problem turned out (i think) to be using the wrong version of software to do the adaptation. I didn't realize this till later, however, and was able to clear the codes by unplugging the battery and ECU, then plugging it back in and turning the key to accessory for 30 seconds before starting it. (some form of TB adaptation)

a220vt
06-03-2007, 07:13 PM
What kind of software do you mean? Did your car die when coming to a stop? I'm trying to use a VW 5052 scan tool to do the adaptation, and I've tried disconnecting the battery and the ECU, and the fault won't clear. Maybe I'll give it another try.

bOOOOstedAudi
06-03-2007, 07:25 PM
try to recode the ecu then to the thot adpat

urS4
06-03-2007, 07:37 PM
I'm running NGK bkr7e's. So the throttle adaptation issue doesn't have a fix right now? Did Poopie's car die as well? I was thinking that the dying issue was due to the stepper motor not working properly, but I won't really be worried about that if I can fix the problem by putting the air filter on. I guess I'll see what Chris says tomorrow.

I have had some run/idle issues and the same throttle adaptation problem. Chris Tapp has been very responsive and I know he's been working on both of these. The idle problem is related to the MAF. With the large diameter and without enough air coming into it straight you're going to have idle problems. Some of us in the urS4/6 community have/are running 928 S4 MAFs with identical idle problems. HTH.

killa
06-03-2007, 07:58 PM
Which problem? The throttle adaptation thing, or the bucking at part throttle? The lightning MAF that I have is brand new, and it's positioned pretty much like the picture above, except I don't have a filter right now, but it's on it's way. Even if I run a filter, how is it going to help me adapt my throttle? Thanks for all the replies guys.[up]

YOU need to run a filter in there, large maf housings will not read correctly because of turbulance, did you ever notice how a bosch maf from a vr or such has an air straightner in the front? try putting a paper towel in front of the MAF to see if the idle gets better, careful though, ONLY TRY THIS AT IDLE, DO NOT HIT THE THROTTLE OR THE PAPER MIGHT GET SUCKED IN.

Not sure if you know this either but you need to run a 3bar fuel pressure regulator as well, if you're running the stock unit then it's a 4bar..

killa
06-03-2007, 08:00 PM
Paul

I did receive the rods. Thank you. How are you supposed to position the MAF? How does this look?

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/15349Snakes-1-med.jpg

There's not much you can do with the Ford MAF, are you still having problems with the idle?
Got plenty of rods in stock btw[cool]

urS4
06-03-2007, 08:10 PM
There's not much you can do with the Ford MAF, are you still having problems with the idle?
Got plenty of rods in stock btw[cool]

I think that the 4 you sold me will be enough. The car goes into the shop for the rebuild this week and Chris is waiting for some logs so he knows how to proceed. That will have to wait until the new engine is broken in.

Bigjuice
06-03-2007, 08:37 PM
Sean, how did you clean the lightning MAF?

I used a MAF cleaner I got from NAPA. Just spray it on & wait.

Works really well, I just used it on my new set up.

a220vt
06-03-2007, 10:01 PM
YOU need to run a filter in there, large maf housings will not read correctly because of turbulance, did you ever notice how a bosch maf from a vr or such has an air straightner in the front? try putting a paper towel in front of the MAF to see if the idle gets better, careful though, ONLY TRY THIS AT IDLE, DO NOT HIT THE THROTTLE OR THE PAPER MIGHT GET SUCKED IN.

Not sure if you know this either but you need to run a 3bar fuel pressure regulator as well, if you're running the stock unit then it's a 4bar..

The stock AEB FPR is a 4 bar? I didn't know that... AFR's seem fine at idle though, 14.7 most of the time, sometimes a little leaner. The main problem is when I'm coming to a stop and I push the clutch in, the rpm's take a huge dip, and the engine wants to die. I'm not so concerned about the hunting idle, as long as I can get the engine to stay running. The filter should be here soon, so hopefully that will help.

a220vt
06-03-2007, 10:03 PM
try to recode the ecu then to the thot adpat
What should I recode it to?

killa
06-04-2007, 03:52 AM
The stock AEB FPR is a 4 bar? I didn't know that... AFR's seem fine at idle though, 14.7 most of the time, sometimes a little leaner. The main problem is when I'm coming to a stop and I push the clutch in, the rpm's take a huge dip, and the engine wants to die. I'm not so concerned about the hunting idle, as long as I can get the engine to stay running. The filter should be here soon, so hopefully that will help.


Definatly let us know when you put the filter on [up]

aytheory
06-04-2007, 04:46 AM
ahahah stop making me worry about ctapp tuning - I will be running that soon too - his intake is a biatch to set up - but i hope it is worth it. There is like a million parts to get and cost about 500 dollars - if you get the apt 3"

94jedi
06-04-2007, 05:21 AM
The stock AEB FPR is a 4 bar? I didn't know that... AFR's seem fine at idle though, 14.7 most of the time, sometimes a little leaner. The main problem is when I'm coming to a stop and I push the clutch in, the rpm's take a huge dip, and the engine wants to die. I'm not so concerned about the hunting idle, as long as I can get the engine to stay running. The filter should be here soon, so hopefully that will help.

yes, you have to run those 630's at ~3 bar. An adj. fpr. is better so you can fine tune it to where it runs best. I had a few idle issues as well in the beginning but things seemed to smooth out within a few days. I wouldn't call it a "problem". I did however change my TIP a few times until I felt it was perfect.

Thanks Bigjuice- I'm going to clean my maf w/ that cleaner from NAPA.

Bigjuice
06-04-2007, 05:21 AM
I've been using CTapp tunining for over a year, & i've had my fair share of the same problems.
By changing the diameter & length of the pipe between the MAF & turbo solved all of the problems.
Use a min. of 3" diameter & try to match the length of pipe as close to stock as possible, the car now drives like a dream, no shutting off when a/c is used bucking & jerking is gone, the dreaded throttle body fault in basic settings is also gone. Also it's imperative that you use a filter.

a220vt
06-04-2007, 05:55 AM
Yeah, I tried to make my inlet pipe as short as possible, but it's tough having to fit all of that stuff in there along with recirculating the DV. Chris e-mailed me back saying that he was going to have a vehicle in the shop today that had the throttle body faults, and he was going to investigate.

Bigjuice
06-04-2007, 06:22 AM
Yeah, I tried to make my inlet pipe as short as possible, but it's tough having to fit all of that stuff in there along with recirculating the DV. Chris e-mailed me back saying that he was going to have a vehicle in the shop today that had the throttle body faults, and he was going to investigate.



Well I actually went with a longer inlet pipe, & it worked for me.
Trial & error I guess .

Tapp
06-04-2007, 08:11 AM
Hi guys,
The car I am going to do the testing on actually doesent have any TB alignment faults, I just want to try and recreate the problem some of you are having. One thing for sure, you absolutely have to run an air filter, I had no idea people would try and drive around without one. The lightning maf has no flow straightener built into it like the stock maf's, so it needs a filter to straighten out the airflow. Also, you need to avaoid any sharp bends or drastic transisions in tubing size right after the maf. I know it is tight in that area and this is tricky depending on how you have your manifold/turbo set up, but if you pay attention to these things your car will run like stock. You also need to recirculate the DV, if you dont, metered air will get dumped out under high vacuum conditions like idle and cruise, and you will have a rich condition.

Chris

a220vt
06-04-2007, 08:18 AM
The only reason I'm driving without a filter is because it hasn't arrived yet, I didn't know that it was that important to have one. I know now. Also, does anyone have a part number for a 3 bar fpr?

xr4tic
06-04-2007, 08:38 AM
Out of curiosity, why run 630s at 3 bar when you could run 550s at 4 bar with the same flow rate?

Its one less part to buy (FPR)

a220vt
06-04-2007, 08:59 AM
Doesn't running a larger injector with a lower pressure give you more precise control over the injector? Unitronic only offered a 3 bar tune for this ECU as well.

Tapp
06-04-2007, 09:11 AM
The fuel pressure regulator for any 2001 and up 1.8T should work,bosch part# should be 280 160 507.
Running 3 bar is better for people who run high boost, it keeps the fuel pressure in a more reasonable range, where fuel pumps can deliver more volume. (4 bar +30psi in the manifold = almost 90 psi fuel pressure) plus with larger injectors and less displacement you can typically get a better idle because at minimum duty cycle you arent delivering as much fuel as you would be at 4 bar.

a220vt
06-04-2007, 09:40 AM
Yeah, my last project was a MKII GTI on a standalone 1.8t, I ran 4 bar with the same injectors, and I could never get them to idle at 14.7. It was a pain in the ass.

xr4tic
06-04-2007, 09:59 AM
small injectors @ higher pressure will flow the exact same as large injectors @ lower pressure.

it's true that with large injectors of the same size that lower fuel pressure will be easier to tune at idle.

The higher pressure on the fuel pump is a concern, but can the stock fuel pump handle the flow even at lower pressures?

a220vt
06-04-2007, 10:11 AM
I'm running the stock pump right now at around 14 psi, but I have the Bosch 044 unit waiting to go in once I'm ready to turn up the boost.

Tapp
06-04-2007, 10:41 AM
The stock pump is good up to just under 300whp, and a walboro 255 will support 570whp if you run a relay (and 1000cc injectors)

TQMB5
06-04-2007, 04:12 PM
hey tapp you ever going to tune a file for the 2000?

Poopie
06-04-2007, 06:47 PM
I have an air filter and I use the ATP inlet. I have the fault in basic settings code and the internal control module code. My idle will be good if I reset the ecu and the unplug the battery and reconnect everything. About 70 miles later the idle gets bouncy and the idle will raise to 1200-1400. The idle will dip when releasing the clutch when i come to the light. I trust Chis's ecu, but I think the ATP inlet is the culprit. I KNOW it is not the throttle body because I swapped out with a good one with a friend. He doens't have the codes and i still do.

aytheory
06-04-2007, 08:02 PM
The apt inlet is pretty smooth - and running from the maf a 4-3 tapered reducer. The only sharp bend the atp inlet is at is the connecting point of the turbo - it makes a 90 deg bend but it has been machined to be smooth.

a220vt
06-04-2007, 09:08 PM
Ok, so I swapped in the 3 bar fpr, and things got a little smoother, especially the part throttle cruise. Then my fuel pump took a crap on me on the way home from work. I did get my filter though, so I'll swap the fuel pump tomorrow and see how it runs with the filter.

aaronamerica
06-04-2007, 11:58 PM
go ahead and get the walbro 255 fuel pump

a220vt
06-05-2007, 06:21 AM
I already have the Bosch 044 pump that 034efi sells waiting to go in.

Poopie
06-05-2007, 09:08 AM
i have the walbro in and it didn't help

a220vt
06-05-2007, 09:26 AM
Have you tried recoding the ECU like someone above suggested?

Poopie
06-05-2007, 10:23 AM
its already softcoded for a manual quattro. Its the only code that would affect the ecu.

a220vt
06-05-2007, 10:52 AM
Oh, what should that code be? I want to check mine to make sure.

Poopie
06-05-2007, 01:15 PM
I think it is 06221

aaronamerica
06-05-2007, 07:57 PM
did the filter come in yet???

a220vt
06-05-2007, 08:21 PM
So my fuel pump problem turned out to be something completely different, I found that the chip wasn't fully seated inside the ECU, and it caused everything to shut down. I got the car running again, after being towed to my house, and 3 hours of trying to figure out what the problem was. I got the filter and put it on, and I still have the same jumpy idle problem. I'm going to try adapting the throttle again tomorrow and see if it makes a difference now that the chip is fully seated.

Poopie
06-05-2007, 09:18 PM
I also have a problem with the ecu shutting down sometimes. I was racing an evo and I hit the rev limiter in 1st gear when my tires slipped a little and my ecu shut down. I had to unplug the ecu and the batt to get it to run again.

a220vt
06-06-2007, 10:04 AM
My ECU is coded t0 6201, I couldn't change the coding. Do you know the login code?

Poopie
06-06-2007, 10:25 AM
that is the correct coding. Mine was a typo.

a220vt
06-08-2007, 05:32 AM
My chip popped off again yesterday, luckily I knew what it was so I was able to do a side of the road fix instead of getting it towed.

Poopie
06-08-2007, 06:52 AM
how does your chip pop off?

a220vt
06-08-2007, 07:10 AM
It just works its way off I guess, we have bumpy roads around here, but not THAT bumpy. Both times it's happened, I've opened up the ECU, and found the chip cocked on the socket, so the pins don't all make good contact. I think there's something wrong with it. I put a piece of foam in there between the ecu case and the chip, so hopefully it will stay put. The car seems to be running a lot better now, it hasn't died at a stop in a while, but the idle does dive a little still.

Don Supreme
06-08-2007, 08:46 AM
Does it come with a locking unit on top of the chip?

I know my Unitronic chip has a sliding lock that keeps the chip in place.

a220vt
06-08-2007, 09:06 AM
No, there's no locking unit on it. Chris is going to give me another ECU, with the throttle adaptation problem fixed as well.

Poopie
06-22-2007, 05:35 PM
What MAF are you guys using? I got my MAF on ebay and I'm beginning to suspect that it is not an OE part. Some google searching showed me that ford mafs especially aftermarket sensors are not the best at holding idle. My maf does not have a part number on it because it was ground off orginally. I'm gonna try an OE ford part and see what happens on monday.